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Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's me, Josh. And Fallout shelters have been

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Speaker 1: on my mind a lot lately. We've been doing some

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Speaker 1: episodes about the Cold War, and they played a big

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Speaker 1: role in that. And that second season of Fallout, the

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Speaker 1: TV show based on the game, it's really good. And

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Speaker 1: on Wednesday, I got trapped in the Fallout shelter in

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Speaker 1: the basement of an abandoned school for 18 hours. And

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Speaker 1: someone finally found me. and the fire department had to

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Speaker 1: come cut a hole in the steel door with a

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Speaker 1: huge saw. So I thought that maybe releasing our episode

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Speaker 1: on fallout shelters again as this week's select would be

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Speaker 1: a good idea. It came out in 2020, and it's

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Speaker 1: pretty good, and I hope you enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Kablooey Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Bam Bam Bryant and Jerry Radioactive Roland.

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Speaker 2: Oh, boy.

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Speaker 1: And this is Stuff You Should Know.

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Speaker 2: You still got it.

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Speaker 1: After all these years.

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Speaker 2: You still got it.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Hey, I think before we get going, we should talk

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Speaker 2: very briefly about our audio book.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Because this week in real time, we are each recording

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Speaker 2: our respective parts for the audio book. And first of all,

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Speaker 2: we just want to tell everyone there's going to be

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Speaker 2: an audio book version.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, spoiler.

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Speaker 2: Of Stuff You Should Know, colon, and Mostly Incomplete Guide

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Speaker 2: to Very Interesting Things.

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Speaker 1: Man, still. An incomplete compendium of mostly interesting things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're trying to push that out as a.

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Speaker 2: You know, get both is what I say. But if

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Speaker 2: you're into audiobooks, we're doing one. But also, I just

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Speaker 2: want to make sure people know what they're getting. And

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Speaker 2: I put this on the Stuff You Should Know Army page.

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Speaker 2: They're not getting 27 new podcast episodes.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: And they should know that because our podcast is unscripted conversation.

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Speaker 2: An audiobook is us reading an audiobook. And rather than

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Speaker 2: just weirdly trading lines, reading from a script, which would

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Speaker 2: I think that would dash a lot of people's image

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Speaker 2: of what we do. We are each reading chapters, and

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to mix in some stuff here

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Speaker 2: and there. But, yeah, I mean, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: great and fun, but it's not podcast episodes. We don't

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Speaker 2: get to just fart around and make jokes. Like, we've

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Speaker 2: got to read our book.

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Speaker 1: Oh, man, we will be kept in line. If we

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Speaker 1: tried to fart around and make jokes, it would not

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Speaker 1: be good. There's this whole time is money ethos and yelling,

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Speaker 1: sometimes crying. It's a real stressful situation, everybody.

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Speaker 2: How did that go for you yesterday? Did you enjoy yourself?

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Speaker 1: I just told you there's a lot of yelling and crying.

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Speaker 1: It was very stressful. Yeah, it was fun. It reminded

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Speaker 1: me a lot of recording The End of the World. Yeah, exactly. Because,

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Speaker 1: you know, I wrote those and then I read them. Right.

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Speaker 1: So it was very similar to that, except a lot

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Speaker 1: less heavy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was slightly nervous at first for some reason

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Speaker 2: after talking for 12 years, probably just because... you weren't there.

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Speaker 2: But then it was like, you know, it was fine.

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Speaker 1: Did Fleet, the director, calm you, make you feel better?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, I got in my groove.

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Speaker 2: I felt pretty comfy by the end of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, I mean, it is fun. It's definitely a

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Speaker 1: lot of extra work this week, but it's kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the end, we're going to have a

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Speaker 1: bona fide audio book.

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Speaker 2: That's right. And a bona fide book that you can

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Speaker 2: pre-order now. And we're also working on getting that pre-order

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Speaker 2: gift available to the UK and Australia and other parts

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Speaker 2: of the world because we have different publishers there. It's

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Speaker 2: not like we were trying to exclude everyone.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no. But we are moving heaven and earth

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Speaker 1: to get it done. And yeah, if you're in the

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Speaker 1: US and Canada and you pre-order, if you haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: your poster yet, worry not. You're going to get your

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Speaker 1: pre-order gift eventually.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So for the 15, 17 people who stuck around,

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Speaker 1: prepare to learn about fallout shelters because that's ultimately what

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Speaker 1: we're here to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Actually, before that, I have to say one

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Speaker 2: more thing.

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Speaker 1: Oh, God.

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Speaker 2: I posted that squirrel attack video on my Instagram, you know,

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Speaker 2: that we talked about on the episode. Yeah. Because people

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Speaker 2: kept asking, so I put it up. I'm at Chuck

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Speaker 2: the Podcaster. If you want to see a squirrel go

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Speaker 2: berserk and literally fly through the air and hit me

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Speaker 2: in the leg, then you can see that. It's been

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Speaker 2: viewed like 15,000 times now.

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Speaker 1: One of these days, I hope you'll fess up to

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Speaker 1: what you did to provoke that squirrel.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the whole thing's there. You see me exit

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Speaker 2: my house, so... Yeah, but I.

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Speaker 1: Mean, we didn't know, like, what happened a half hour before. Right.

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Speaker 1: You know, that had been ongoing for the last week

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Speaker 1: or so. Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No backstory.

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Speaker 1: So now, I think we're going to talk about fallout shelters. Because, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: your house has a basement... But it's exposed on one

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Speaker 1: side to the outdoors. It's not an in-ground basement as

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Speaker 1: far as I know. And hopefully I'm not divulging too

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Speaker 1: much information about your house so weird fans will be

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Speaker 1: able to find it and show up.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, you know, one side of it is exposed

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Speaker 2: to the world. But the other side is, you know,

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Speaker 2: 10 feet of earth and red clay. Like it could

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Speaker 2: have been a great fallout shelter had it not been

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Speaker 2: for that one side.

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Speaker 1: Sure. But there are things you could do. Or could

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Speaker 1: have done. I think we should use past tense here.

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Speaker 1: Because the need for a fallout shelter as far as

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Speaker 1: a nuclear war goes is vanishingly remote these days. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like to think. I don't think we should get

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Speaker 1: into any fear mongering here.

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Speaker 2: No, I agree.

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Speaker 1: But there are a few things you could have done

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Speaker 1: or could do to build a fallout shelter with that

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Speaker 1: good side, I guess. And we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: that today. But mainly what we're talking about with fallout

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Speaker 1: shelters is almost kind of like this examination of the

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Speaker 1: world psyche during the Cold War to where as the

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Speaker 1: nuclear arsenals of the Soviet Union and the United States

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Speaker 1: started to build up in step with one another and

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Speaker 1: we were suddenly in a nuclear arms race where just

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Speaker 1: 10 years before there were no such thing as nuclear weapons,

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Speaker 1: people started to realize like, oh man, if one of

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Speaker 1: these goes off near me, I'm in big trouble. And

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Speaker 1: they started looking around to the government to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: what should I do? And at first, the government was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, figure it out yourself. And then eventually, the

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Speaker 1: government kind of got a little more involved. And before

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Speaker 1: you know it, we had a national fallout shelter program.

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Speaker 1: As feeble and terrible as it was, at least we

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Speaker 1: had one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what's really funny is when you read up on

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Speaker 2: this stuff and you learn that President Kennedy, John F. Kennedy,

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Speaker 2: that is, Ask Congress for $ 100 million to build public

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Speaker 2: fallout shelters.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: That is such an adorable number now. It is. That

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Speaker 2: would build like 10 fallout shelters these days.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Maybe. Maybe. That's like the amount of money that

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Speaker 1: would take to get like a motorcade to the Capitol

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Speaker 1: from the White House basically, you know?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was a real threat back then. And

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Speaker 2: I can't remember what episode. It may have been nuclear radiation–

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Speaker 2: We did one on the disaster in Japan.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We've done a couple on this. But I know that

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Speaker 2: I told the story of my father like having us

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Speaker 2: sort of do 20 percent of a fallout shelter when

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Speaker 2: I was 10 or 12 years old after the movie

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Speaker 2: The Day After aired on television.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it was my brother and I

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Speaker 2: taking out– digging out buckets of dirt and carrying them

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Speaker 2: out in the woods and dumping them for probably three

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Speaker 2: or four weekends and then we stopped.

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Speaker 1: That's awesome. So you guys were 20 percent covered if

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Speaker 1: something happened. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we could have. Yeah, it was pretty gross.

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Speaker 1: So was it akin to this this this shelter that

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Speaker 1: we were going to go over at the end? Was

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Speaker 1: it like that?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it eventually could have been, which is

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Speaker 2: to say a, you know, kind of a concrete room

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Speaker 2: underground surrounded by earth.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. No, I'm saying like the kind where it's

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Speaker 1: like you dig a trench and put some wood poles.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no, no, no.

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Speaker 1: This is part of.

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Speaker 2: My basement. Like, my dad had a workshop, and on

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Speaker 2: the interior wall of the workshop, he knocked down the

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Speaker 2: cinder block wall, and we just started digging.

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Speaker 1: Oh, wow.

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Speaker 2: Which I'm sure was super safe to the foundation of

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Speaker 2: the house.

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Speaker 1: Sure, right. He's like, oh, it's probably not load-bearing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there was definitely a point in time, especially

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Speaker 1: during the height of the Cold War, where it was like,

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Speaker 1: this is, we're really in danger here. The world was

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Speaker 1: just kind of walking around, just twitching and shaking at

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Speaker 1: the idea of this. And part of the problem was,

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Speaker 1: Not just the idea that a bomb was going to

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Speaker 1: go off and just blow cities apart. Because apparently there

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Speaker 1: was this one of the nuclear deterrent theories, the game

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Speaker 1: theories that people kind of operated under said, no, you

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Speaker 1: know what? If we ever engage in nuclear war, we're

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Speaker 1: just going to be attacking military installations side to side.

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Speaker 1: And so we don't really have to worry about that

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Speaker 1: for people in New York or D.C. or, you know, Atlanta, wherever,

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Speaker 1: any of the major metropolitan cities. We don't have to

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Speaker 1: worry about those cities getting leveled. But there's going to

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Speaker 1: be a huge problem for the people living there because

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Speaker 1: there's such a thing as radioactive fallout. It's not just

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Speaker 1: the bomb that gets you. It's the fallout afterward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about a nuclear bomb,

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Speaker 2: a nuclear warhead, it depends on what kind. You know,

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Speaker 2: back then it was different than it is now. Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 2: Let's say a one megaton H-bomb back in the day

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Speaker 2: would completely wipe out everything within about two miles. from

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Speaker 2: where it hit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I know I said we weren't going to fearmonger, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: but I found out that there is a bomb in

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Speaker 1: the U.S. arsenal called the B-83, which is 1.2 megatons,

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Speaker 1: and it can be carried around very easily by the

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Speaker 1: B-2 bomber. So those exist.

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Speaker 2: So two miles, everything is gone. And this is from

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Speaker 2: the blast. And a person, if you're like five miles

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Speaker 2: away from that bomb site, you're going to get hit

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Speaker 2: with third-degree burns just from that blast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to be hating life. So the blast

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Speaker 1: is going to be bad enough. And again, yeah, just

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Speaker 1: for people miles away could be burned to death, incinerated, vaporized,

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Speaker 1: just all sorts of terrible stuff. But if you're living

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Speaker 1: outside of that blast zone, you got problems in the

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Speaker 1: radioactivity that's going to be generated by it. Because when

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Speaker 1: those bombs explode, they release a lot of radioactive particles

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Speaker 1: of different varieties. And those things go up in the

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Speaker 1: air and they get kind of carried around and stirred

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Speaker 1: up in the atmosphere. But a lot of them are

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Speaker 1: heavy enough that they come back down in basically around

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Speaker 1: the area, in a larger area around the bomb's epicenter.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and We should probably just go over some of

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Speaker 2: these different types of radiation. Some of it you might

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Speaker 2: recognize from various Incredible Hulk comic books.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: But you've got your alpha particles, your beta particles. You've

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Speaker 2: got gamma rays. You've got neutrons.

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Speaker 1: The gamma rays is what got Hulk, right?

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Speaker 2: I think so, right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: Because gamma rays are green and Hulk was green.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: I think that's it.

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Speaker 2: And he had those sweet, sweet purple pants that somehow

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Speaker 2: still fit.

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Speaker 1: For sure.

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Speaker 2: So the alpha and beta particles, they are not great,

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Speaker 2: but they are easily stopped is probably the best way

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Speaker 2: to say it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So here's the thing. Like everything I tried to

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Speaker 1: read about this was like they would go to great

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Speaker 1: lengths to be like, well, this one isn't like that

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Speaker 1: much of a problem. This one's way worse. And then

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Speaker 1: finally they'd throw up their hands and be like, actually,

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Speaker 1: all of this is just going to be one big

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Speaker 1: giant cluster. Right. Because depending on the different type of

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Speaker 1: radioactive particle– there's different situations where they're way worse than

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Speaker 1: the other one. Like a gamma ray is really bad

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Speaker 1: because it can go clear through several inches of lead

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Speaker 1: right into you on the other side of the lead

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Speaker 1: through your body. And then everything it comes in contact with,

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Speaker 1: say all of your cells and tissues and bones and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, it really screws them up genetically and

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Speaker 1: you can develop cancer and radiation sickness and all that.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty bad. But then you've got alpha particles where

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Speaker 1: they can be stopped by a piece of paper. They

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Speaker 1: can't even make it through your skin, but they could

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Speaker 1: get all over like crops in the water and we

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Speaker 1: drink them and eat them. And then they cause all

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Speaker 1: sorts of problems inside of you too. So there's really

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Speaker 1: no good radioactive particle as far as a fallout from

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Speaker 1: a nuclear bomb is concerned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not at all. So don't, you know, if you

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Speaker 2: read up on this stuff and it said, oh, a

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Speaker 2: piece of paper or a little bit of plastic can

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Speaker 2: stop beta particles and alpha particles. Just think about the

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Speaker 2: air you're breathing, the water you're drinking, the maze you're growing. Sure.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to get traditional?

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Speaker 2: It's all very dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't just be like, oh, let's make a paper

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Speaker 1: suit out of newspapers and maybe a little paper tri-cornered

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Speaker 1: hat out of newspapers. I'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: But like you said, when this bomb hits, that mushroom

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Speaker 2: cloud goes up. Everything's all mixed together. And as the

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Speaker 2: wind blows, these little, I think John Fuller, our old pal,

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Speaker 2: wrote this one a long time ago, right? Yep. for

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Speaker 2: How Stuff Works, but he said there are lots of little,

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Speaker 2: they act like little tiny missiles, basically, that are just

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Speaker 2: going off all over the place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the neutrons, right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the neutrons specific, he called the missiles,

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Speaker 2: but they kind of all are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they are. They're super high energy and gamma rays,

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Speaker 1: like I said, they can pass right through you. Neutrons

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Speaker 1: are a problem in the relative immediate blast area because

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Speaker 1: They're very heavy, so they don't go nearly as far as, say,

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Speaker 1: like gamma rays or X-rays or alpha particles or beta particles.

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Speaker 1: But they all do damage in their own unique special

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Speaker 1: snowflake way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also, I mean, this stuff is being

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Speaker 2: carried around by the wind. But the actual particles that

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Speaker 2: you're seeing is actually Earth that is now enriched with

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Speaker 2: this stuff. That is poofed up from that crater where

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Speaker 2: Earth used to be, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Right. And so knowing all this, like this was this

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Speaker 1: is like why people started to be like, oh, OK,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should start building fallout shelters to live in

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Speaker 1: or inhabit for, you know, the immediate period after this

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Speaker 1: this nuclear attack to give us a chance to survive.

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Speaker 1: And hopefully, you know, make it a few weeks and

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Speaker 1: then things will die down. Everybody will have forgotten about

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Speaker 1: the whole nuclear holocaust. And we can come back out

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Speaker 1: and restart civilization. That was the really honestly, if you

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Speaker 1: get down to it, the thinking behind fallout shelters in

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Speaker 1: the United States in the 60s and late 50s. All right.

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Speaker 2: Should we take a break there then talk about these things?

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Speaker 1: I think so.

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Speaker 2: Some more?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: All right. We'll be right back, everyone.

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Speaker 1: So, Chuck, I think since we've got one act under

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Speaker 1: our belt, we need to start the second act by

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Speaker 1: telling everybody they can preorder our book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I took some vitamins, you know. I've been taking

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Speaker 1: vitamins as much as I can. Oh, yeah? And I've

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Speaker 1: got this multivitamin, you know, like the worst a vitamin

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Speaker 1: can taste. I've got that horrible vitamin taste just stuck

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Speaker 1: in the back of my throat because it got stuck

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Speaker 1: there for a half of a millisecond before it washed down.

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Speaker 1: And it's just left this terrible taste of vitamin coating

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Speaker 1: back there. And it's driving me batty.

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Speaker 2: How is your health with the vitamins? Can you tell

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Speaker 2: the difference?

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Speaker 1: No, none.

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Speaker 2: How's your pee? How's your urine?

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00:16:16,890 --> 00:16:19,190
Speaker 1: It's bright yellow, which makes me just feel like such

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Speaker 1: a chump, especially after our vitamin supplement episode. Oh, right.

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Speaker 2: Didn't we say like we pee most of it out?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. There's good ones for sure. And I like to

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Speaker 1: think I'm taking good ones, but I just know that

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Speaker 1: there's no telling right now.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I'm using injectables now.

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Speaker 1: Pretty much snortable vitamins.

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Speaker 2: So fallout shelters, it's funny here, and I'm glad John

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Speaker 2: put it this way because it really makes a lot

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Speaker 2: of sense. If you think about an SPF for sunscreen.

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Speaker 2: It's the same exact way with a fallout shelter. You

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00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:52,690
Speaker 2: have a PF, a protection factor. And that is just

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Speaker 2: very simply a representative of being in a fallout shelter

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Speaker 2: or just being out in the open. And FEMA put

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Speaker 2: out a pamphlet called Standards for Fallout Shelters. And they said,

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Speaker 2: you need a PF of 40.

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Speaker 1: At least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to, you know. And that puts

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Speaker 2: you down to about 2.5% of the radiation, which I

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Speaker 2: heard that number and I thought that was too much.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I think what you're really shooting for is

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Speaker 1: something like 300, that kind of thing. And they're saying

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Speaker 1: like a minimum of 40 or else you might as

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Speaker 1: well just go lay out in the radioactivity for all

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Speaker 1: the protection you're going to get. Another way to look

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Speaker 1: at that PF number is that it's the denominator and

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Speaker 1: the fraction of the radioactive exposure that you get. compared

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Speaker 1: to being outside of the shelter. So a PF of

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Speaker 1: 40 would mean that you get one 40th. I'm more

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Speaker 1: of a fraction guy than a decimal dude.

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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah?

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Speaker 1: Uh-huh. How about you? You like decimals or fractions more?

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Speaker 2: I don't like either one, but I think for our

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Speaker 2: next live show in 2022, you should wear a shirt

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Speaker 2: that says fraction guy, and I'll have one that says

375
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Speaker 2: decimal dude.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: And that'll just be our new tour outfit.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough.

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Speaker 2: And you can have yours printed on a button-down shirt,

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Speaker 2: of course.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Because nothing looks better than good silk screening on

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00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,440
Speaker 1: a button down Oxford. Maybe by the time we go

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Speaker 1: on tour again, this horrible vitamin taste will be out

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Speaker 1: of my mouth.

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Speaker 2: Maybe so. So with fallout shelters, there's a couple of

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Speaker 2: kinds if you're going back to the 1960s that people

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Speaker 2: were talking about. And that is the public one and

388
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Speaker 2: then the private one that you just build at your

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Speaker 2: house like we kind of didn't do. I went down

390
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,900
Speaker 2: a bit of a rabbit hole, and this would be

391
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Speaker 2: right up your alley. You probably did this.

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Speaker 1: Rabbit hole's pretty safe, I bet. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Depends on how deep, I guess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But if you start Googling 60s fallout shelters— Oh, and

396
00:18:52,550 --> 00:18:56,189
Speaker 2: I did. Oh, boy. It's just a treasure trove of

397
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Speaker 2: articles and pictures. I saw one that these people in

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Speaker 2: Woodland Hills, a suburb of L.A., or part of greater

399
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Speaker 2: Los Angeles, bought a house— Not too long ago, a

400
00:19:08,020 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 2: few years ago, and they found a– did you see

401
00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: this one?

402
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,300
Speaker 1: No, I saw some in Milwaukee.

403
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Speaker 2: Oh, well, I saw that Milwaukee article too.

404
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:15,700
Speaker 1: That was great.

405
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:20,910
Speaker 2: But they found a 15-foot-down under-the-earth fallout shelter.

406
00:19:21,290 --> 00:19:21,590
Speaker 1: Wow.

407
00:19:21,609 --> 00:19:25,570
Speaker 2: That was fully stocked. It was like a time capsule

408
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Speaker 2: from 1961.

409
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Speaker 1: And Brendan Fraser and Christopher Walken were living in it.

410
00:19:31,690 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 1: I can't remember who the mom was. Do you remember?

411
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Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't see that.

412
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,660
Speaker 1: Oh, you didn't? No. No. It was a cute movie. Yeah?

413
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,120
Speaker 2: Was that Encino Man?

414
00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:43,020
Speaker 1: No, no, no. This was Blast from the Past. Oh, okay.

415
00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:46,169
Speaker 1: Encino Man was great, too, because the weasel's in it.

416
00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:47,609
Speaker 2: Oh, was he?

417
00:19:48,290 --> 00:19:49,050
Speaker 1: Yeah, Pauly Shore.

418
00:19:49,369 --> 00:19:49,929
Speaker 2: Yeah, I knew it then.

419
00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:50,209
Speaker 1: Is.

420
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Speaker 2: I just didn't.

421
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Speaker 1: Pauly Shore, Sean Austin, and Brendan Fraser.

422
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Speaker 2: Sean Aston.

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Speaker 1: Whatever. That guy's rich enough. He doesn't care what I say.

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Speaker 2: So I was looking at all these 1961 period products

425
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,700
Speaker 2: and just, like, getting tingly feelings in my body because

426
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 2: they were perfectly preserved for the most part, like, faded

427
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,910
Speaker 2: and stuff. But there was a can, like a coffee can,

428
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 2: but it said, multi-purpose food, Meals for Millions. And so

429
00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:19,740
Speaker 2: I was like, I got to find out what this is.

430
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Speaker 2: And it turns out that Meals for Millions was a

431
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,390
Speaker 2: nonprofit from way back then that is now- Pepper International. No,

432
00:20:28,470 --> 00:20:32,970
Speaker 2: now it's transformed into another name these days. I think

433
00:20:33,010 --> 00:20:34,490
Speaker 2: Freedom from Hunger is the new name.

434
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Speaker 1: Okay.

435
00:20:35,230 --> 00:20:38,290
Speaker 2: But these two guys, Clifford Clinton and Dr. Henry Borsuk,

436
00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:43,210
Speaker 2: took on this task of– Borsuk was a biochemist at Caltech.

437
00:20:43,930 --> 00:20:46,310
Speaker 2: And they took on this project of trying to find

438
00:20:46,369 --> 00:20:51,620
Speaker 2: the best food to feed, like the cheapest, absolute most

439
00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 2: bare bones thing you could put in a package to

440
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Speaker 2: feed the hungry.

441
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Speaker 1: Right.

442
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 2: And that's what they came up with was this stuff

443
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 2: in a can. And it is 68% defatted soy grits.

444
00:21:06,220 --> 00:21:11,500
Speaker 2: Plus dehydrated potatoes, cabbage, tomatoes, onions, leeks, parsley, and spices

445
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: fortified with vitamins and minerals. And it comes in a

446
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,899
Speaker 2: can and you boil it up and eat it. And

447
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:19,900
Speaker 2: it was something like two cents per serving.

448
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:20,740
Speaker 1: Wow.

449
00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 2: And it was a really ingenious idea, but this became,

450
00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:25,980
Speaker 2: I think, kind of a popular thing for fallout shelters

451
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:27,680
Speaker 2: because you could just stock cans and cans of this,

452
00:21:28,270 --> 00:21:31,950
Speaker 2: like the most bare bones caloric sort of healthy thing

453
00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:32,410
Speaker 2: you could get.

454
00:21:32,810 --> 00:21:35,930
Speaker 1: Meals for millions. That's pretty great. I did not expect

455
00:21:36,010 --> 00:21:37,810
Speaker 1: it to actually be as healthy as what you just

456
00:21:37,850 --> 00:21:38,870
Speaker 1: listed off.

457
00:21:39,030 --> 00:21:40,770
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to taste some of it.

458
00:21:41,369 --> 00:21:41,590
Speaker 1: What?

459
00:21:41,730 --> 00:21:42,270
Speaker 2: Multi-purpose food.

460
00:21:42,290 --> 00:21:45,630
Speaker 1: It just traveled the woodland hills. I know. Just call

461
00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:47,610
Speaker 1: it food. What do you mean multi-purpose food?

462
00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:50,889
Speaker 2: I don't know. Is it like a pomade as well

463
00:21:50,970 --> 00:21:51,270
Speaker 2: or something?

464
00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:55,780
Speaker 1: A food that I ran across that was pretty popular,

465
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,540
Speaker 1: especially among government-funded fallout shelters, was this kind of like,

466
00:22:01,109 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: wheat cracker that was made from bulgur wheat. And apparently

467
00:22:05,660 --> 00:22:09,340
Speaker 1: they were inspired by some crackers that were found in

468
00:22:09,460 --> 00:22:13,379
Speaker 1: Egyptian tombs that were still edible after a couple thousand years.

469
00:22:13,420 --> 00:22:15,629
Speaker 1: So they're like, oh, that'd be perfect for fallout shelters.

470
00:22:15,970 --> 00:22:17,330
Speaker 1: So they kind of recreated those.

471
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:18,510
Speaker 2: Tasteless, edible.

472
00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:22,590
Speaker 1: Yeah, multipurpose, apparently. You could shave with them, too.

473
00:22:23,790 --> 00:22:26,530
Speaker 2: You might could. That Milwaukee article is pretty cool, though.

474
00:22:26,730 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

475
00:22:27,980 --> 00:22:30,500
Speaker 2: I think it said that at the time there were

476
00:22:30,540 --> 00:22:34,200
Speaker 2: like 3,000-plus personal shelters in the city of Milwaukee alone.

477
00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:38,540
Speaker 1: Yeah, the thing is, like, that's probably a pretty good number.

478
00:22:38,980 --> 00:22:43,419
Speaker 1: The thing is there's no official numbers for the fallout

479
00:22:43,460 --> 00:22:47,870
Speaker 1: shelters that were built around the Cold War because there

480
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,730
Speaker 1: were a lot of private ones, but there was also

481
00:22:50,830 --> 00:22:53,109
Speaker 1: public ones too. So let's keep talking about the private

482
00:22:53,190 --> 00:22:56,850
Speaker 1: ones first because if we're going to follow the historical timeline—

483
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,450
Speaker 1: which I'm in favor of. Around, I think, the late 1950s,

484
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:06,050
Speaker 1: I think it was 1957, in the Eisenhower administration, there

485
00:23:06,090 --> 00:23:08,869
Speaker 1: was a report that's now called the Gaither Report. And

486
00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:13,190
Speaker 1: it basically said, here's everything we figured out about a

487
00:23:13,369 --> 00:23:18,169
Speaker 1: nuclear war. the cities are toast. People are going to

488
00:23:18,210 --> 00:23:21,170
Speaker 1: die en masse. We have no place to put them

489
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:23,980
Speaker 1: for them to shelter in. And everybody's in a lot

490
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,500
Speaker 1: of trouble if there is a nuclear war. So really,

491
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: the best thing we need to focus on is to

492
00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:32,820
Speaker 1: prevent a nuclear war from happening. Well, that leaked out.

493
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: And people said, well, what are we going to do?

494
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,969
Speaker 1: And this is when the government was like, I don't know,

495
00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:40,030
Speaker 1: why don't you build some shelters and leave us alone?

496
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:42,650
Speaker 1: And so people started doing that. And it became like

497
00:23:42,690 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 1: a huge craze. And so shelters in places like that

498
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 1: home in Woodland Hills or that one in Milwaukee that

499
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,460
Speaker 1: are still around today in some cases, that became like

500
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:58,090
Speaker 1: a big deal, like adding like a really nice swimming

501
00:23:58,170 --> 00:24:02,430
Speaker 1: pool or adding like a rec room or something like that.

502
00:24:02,609 --> 00:24:06,690
Speaker 1: People turned to fallout shelters, and they started building them

503
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:07,430
Speaker 1: like crazy.

504
00:24:07,810 --> 00:24:10,449
Speaker 2: Yeah, and from that Milwaukee, I think it was in

505
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:12,810
Speaker 2: Milwaukee was the name of the website.

506
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:13,129
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

507
00:24:13,510 --> 00:24:15,730
Speaker 2: But from what they said was they were being marketed

508
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:21,139
Speaker 2: as sort of multipurpose rec rooms that in case the

509
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,010
Speaker 2: S goes down, it's conveniently, you know, lined with concrete.

510
00:24:26,470 --> 00:24:26,710
Speaker 1: Right.

511
00:24:26,830 --> 00:24:28,970
Speaker 2: And you could just sort of easily convert it. And

512
00:24:28,990 --> 00:24:31,550
Speaker 2: I guess you would have some stuff stashed there in

513
00:24:31,630 --> 00:24:34,379
Speaker 2: either a closet or in bins or something.

514
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,320
Speaker 1: Right.

515
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:37,489
Speaker 2: When you're not using it, you know, when there's no

516
00:24:37,530 --> 00:24:39,850
Speaker 2: nuclear disaster, you're just using it as sort of a

517
00:24:39,869 --> 00:24:40,669
Speaker 2: playroom or something.

518
00:24:41,090 --> 00:24:43,820
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was some decorators show in Chicago in the

519
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,710
Speaker 1: late 50s, I think, and they build this thing as

520
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,959
Speaker 1: the living or the family room of tomorrow. Yeah, it

521
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: was exactly what you described. It was like a normal

522
00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:55,340
Speaker 1: functioning family room, but it just happened to be in

523
00:24:55,380 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 1: a basement in like foot thick concrete encased under the dirt.

524
00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember seeing when I was a kid, my

525
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,510
Speaker 2: brother and I did lots of Sort of, I mean,

526
00:25:06,550 --> 00:25:10,630
Speaker 2: I guess it wasn't urban exploring, but... Trespassing? Suburban exploring.

527
00:25:10,650 --> 00:25:11,770
Speaker 1: Sure, okay.

528
00:25:12,130 --> 00:25:14,670
Speaker 2: And I remember a couple of distinct times that we

529
00:25:14,770 --> 00:25:18,550
Speaker 2: saw vent pipes just coming out of the earth in

530
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: the forest. And we never saw any entryway or anything

531
00:25:22,660 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: like that. But that had to be some sort of

532
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 2: fallout shelter, I think.

533
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:27,980
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably.

534
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,250
Speaker 2: I mean, they were near homes. But not, like, in

535
00:25:31,290 --> 00:25:34,169
Speaker 2: the yard. We'd come across a couple of them in

536
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:35,930
Speaker 2: our various expeditions.

537
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:36,630
Speaker 1: Okay.

538
00:25:36,730 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 2: Like, you know, just clearly a vent pipe just coming

539
00:25:39,670 --> 00:25:41,179
Speaker 2: out of the woodland forest floor.

540
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:43,540
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what it was. I hope.

541
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,780
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we didn't dig around.

542
00:25:46,180 --> 00:25:49,140
Speaker 1: If not, have you ever seen that Hugh Jackman movie where, like,

543
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: his wife is kidnapped?

544
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:51,700
Speaker 2: Prisoners?

545
00:25:52,460 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that was really good.

546
00:25:54,060 --> 00:25:54,260
Speaker 2: Yeah.

547
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,140
Speaker 1: I mean, really good.

548
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,490
Speaker 2: Yeah, great movie. That's What's-His-Face doing the new Dune movie.

549
00:26:01,590 --> 00:26:02,250
Speaker 2: Denis Villeneuve.

550
00:26:03,470 --> 00:26:05,350
Speaker 1: Oh, well, there you go. That's why it was so good.

551
00:26:05,369 --> 00:26:06,530
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a master.

552
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,699
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Chuck. I just can't not correct you. His

553
00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:16,580
Speaker 1: name is Dennis. Dennis Villeneuve. I'm sorry.

554
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:18,179
Speaker 2: Okay, I mispronounced it.

555
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,560
Speaker 1: So, I was kidding. Anyway, there was the private fallout

556
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: shelter trend that just blew up and became a thing.

557
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,739
Speaker 1: And then in 1961, President Kennedy sent a letter out.

558
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,160
Speaker 1: Surely it went out to more than just this. But

559
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,100
Speaker 1: if you were a Life magazine subscriber, which was pretty

560
00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:43,660
Speaker 1: substantial back in 1961, in the September 15th edition, you

561
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:47,890
Speaker 1: got a letter from President Kennedy basically saying like, hey,

562
00:26:48,070 --> 00:26:51,810
Speaker 1: you know, this whole possibility of nuclear war thing. Well,

563
00:26:51,950 --> 00:26:54,290
Speaker 1: we've decided we're going to do something about it. We,

564
00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: the government. And we're going to start what's called the

565
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:03,310
Speaker 1: National Fallout Shelter Survey. And with the survey, basically what

566
00:27:03,330 --> 00:27:06,129
Speaker 1: we're going to do is send out government officials. And

567
00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:08,510
Speaker 1: they're going to look at buildings all around the country

568
00:27:08,850 --> 00:27:11,429
Speaker 1: and identify sites that have the potential of serving as

569
00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:15,139
Speaker 1: a fallout shelter. And everyone says, well, that's great. So

570
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: like a fallout shelter. So if like a nuclear bomb

571
00:27:17,340 --> 00:27:19,180
Speaker 1: goes off over our city, we're going to be safe.

572
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,510
Speaker 1: It's like, no, don't be ridiculous. A lot of money. No,

573
00:27:23,590 --> 00:27:28,780
Speaker 1: this is going to protect you from radioactive fallout. You'll

574
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,700
Speaker 1: have to survive the blast, but this will hopefully protect

575
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: you from the fallout afterward.

576
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,780
Speaker 2: Yeah, and, you know, we kind of laugh about that, but,

577
00:27:37,460 --> 00:27:40,660
Speaker 2: I mean, there's no way they could have built enough, like,

578
00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:43,610
Speaker 2: adequate shelters to protect all Americans from the blast.

579
00:27:44,050 --> 00:27:46,330
Speaker 1: No, I mean, there was a lot of Americans. Apparently,

580
00:27:46,390 --> 00:27:48,429
Speaker 1: they did look at it at first. They could have

581
00:27:48,450 --> 00:27:50,390
Speaker 1: pretended to. And it was going to be, like, $ 200

582
00:27:50,290 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: billion in... In 1961 dollars.

583
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,340
Speaker 2: That's another cute number, actually.

584
00:27:55,660 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, no, we can't do that. We

585
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,940
Speaker 1: don't have that kind of money. So it was like

586
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:03,220
Speaker 1: you said, I think $ 190 million is what they ended

587
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: up spending on it, which to me seems like a

588
00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:07,860
Speaker 1: lot of money to send out some people to look

589
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:10,310
Speaker 1: at buildings and decide what was a fallout shelter and

590
00:28:10,369 --> 00:28:10,869
Speaker 1: what wasn't.

591
00:28:11,410 --> 00:28:13,130
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, what's really funny is when you look

592
00:28:13,330 --> 00:28:15,730
Speaker 2: at what people did around the world, what countries did

593
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:19,670
Speaker 2: around the world, and how it so jibes with how

594
00:28:19,710 --> 00:28:23,459
Speaker 2: those countries are still today. So the U.S. did what

595
00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: we did. The Soviets said that they built a big

596
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,830
Speaker 2: extensive system and they had an advanced cooling system and

597
00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:37,129
Speaker 2: all these filters protecting against everything and provisions, food and

598
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: water forever and everything. You know, this is this is

599
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 2: the press release they put out, basically. Who knows what

600
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,300
Speaker 2: really happened?

601
00:28:44,540 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I found that on like Russia's so great

602
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,700
Speaker 1: dot com or whatever. I mean, it was it was

603
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:53,590
Speaker 1: like an urban exploration of like an abandoned shelter. But,

604
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:56,630
Speaker 1: you know, was this just like the biggest one? How

605
00:28:56,670 --> 00:28:59,630
Speaker 1: many were like that? Right. Supposedly, the Soviets boasted of

606
00:28:59,730 --> 00:29:03,750
Speaker 1: a system that could protect most most of their citizens

607
00:29:03,790 --> 00:29:04,490
Speaker 1: from the blast.

608
00:29:04,790 --> 00:29:09,010
Speaker 2: All right, so that makes sense. Sweden built 65,000, which

609
00:29:09,050 --> 00:29:11,100
Speaker 2: covered about 70% of the population.

610
00:29:11,670 --> 00:29:13,740
Speaker 1: TS for the other 30%.

611
00:29:13,740 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 2: Switzerland built enough shelters for everybody. Okay. God bless them.

612
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: The UK said, you know what? We're going to build

613
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,300
Speaker 2: enough for our military, our government, and the royal family.

614
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,940
Speaker 1: Yeah, chin up, everyone else.

615
00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:31,500
Speaker 2: And then Australia said, nah, we'll take a pass. We're

616
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,460
Speaker 2: not going to build any because no one's going to

617
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: mess with us down here.

618
00:29:34,650 --> 00:29:37,300
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like, everybody's right on the beach. Everyone knows

619
00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:39,530
Speaker 1: we're fine if the rest of the world's gone up

620
00:29:39,590 --> 00:29:40,830
Speaker 1: in flames. I think they're probably right.

621
00:29:40,870 --> 00:29:44,230
Speaker 2: I mean, they were, and especially back then, enough off

622
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,220
Speaker 2: the map or off the path of the threat that

623
00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:50,550
Speaker 2: they didn't even need to sweat it.

624
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,900
Speaker 1: Yeah. They're like, hey, what's all the ruckus up there?

625
00:29:53,980 --> 00:29:56,740
Speaker 2: Yeah.

626
00:29:56,860 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: So the U.S. said, okay, we've got to do something.

627
00:30:00,220 --> 00:30:02,450
Speaker 1: Let's at least build these fallout shelters that are going

628
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:09,110
Speaker 1: to protect people from radioactivity. And so they started building these— well,

629
00:30:08,110 --> 00:30:10,650
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say building. They started going on to private

630
00:30:10,690 --> 00:30:13,250
Speaker 1: property or public buildings and saying, hey, you've got a

631
00:30:13,290 --> 00:30:14,490
Speaker 1: really nice basement here.

632
00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:15,270
Speaker 2: Yeah.

633
00:30:15,630 --> 00:30:18,430
Speaker 1: Can you take down the human skins and clean it

634
00:30:18,490 --> 00:30:20,310
Speaker 1: up a little bit? We're going to put some bulgur

635
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:23,170
Speaker 1: wheat biscuits in here. We're going to put in some

636
00:30:23,390 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: multipurpose food, don't ask. And we're going to turn this

637
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,260
Speaker 1: place into a fallout shelter. And on their way out,

638
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,540
Speaker 1: they would slap a sign, a very iconic sign, which

639
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,370
Speaker 1: was a black circle saying, with three inverted triangles all

640
00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:40,950
Speaker 1: pointing toward the center that designated a fallout shelter. And

641
00:30:40,990 --> 00:30:44,060
Speaker 1: they did this in yellow in the event of like

642
00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: a blackout during a nuclear war or something so that

643
00:30:46,380 --> 00:30:47,370
Speaker 1: you could easily see it.

644
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:50,500
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool. The company 3M made these for about

645
00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: a penny each, and they made about 400,000 of these signs.

646
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,740
Speaker 2: And they would stock these things with, you know, like

647
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,820
Speaker 2: medical first aid kits, some water drums. Those crackers that

648
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 2: you talked about that if you add water could probably

649
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:09,010
Speaker 2: double up as like cement patch.

650
00:31:10,770 --> 00:31:13,090
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess. But I think people would wrestle you

651
00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:14,890
Speaker 1: to the ground if you tried to use the water

652
00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:18,170
Speaker 1: for anything but drinking after, you know, in the event

653
00:31:18,210 --> 00:31:18,970
Speaker 1: of this. Sure.

654
00:31:18,990 --> 00:31:20,450
Speaker 2: I mean, that's one thing we didn't mention. If you

655
00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:23,580
Speaker 2: go to build your own fallout shelter, you know, you

656
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: should have some food. But water obviously is far more important.

657
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: We've talked about that a lot, about how long the

658
00:31:28,780 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 2: human body can go without food and water. Got to

659
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:35,390
Speaker 2: have a lot of water. I think I would stock

660
00:31:35,430 --> 00:31:37,910
Speaker 2: it up with some of that Mike's Mighty Good ramen.

661
00:31:38,470 --> 00:31:40,090
Speaker 1: Sure. Of course.

662
00:31:40,790 --> 00:31:43,810
Speaker 2: Which, by the way, we'd be remiss if we didn't

663
00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:45,610
Speaker 2: point out that they actually sent us a coupon code

664
00:31:45,630 --> 00:31:46,670
Speaker 2: for Stuff You Should Know listeners.

665
00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:47,970
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.

666
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:51,020
Speaker 2: This is not an ad, but we talk about that

667
00:31:51,060 --> 00:31:53,540
Speaker 2: ramen so much. They said, you know what? Tell everyone

668
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know 20. We'll give them 20% off

669
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:57,940
Speaker 2: ramen if they want to order some.

670
00:31:58,390 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: Very nice. Do you write the number 20 or write

671
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: out T-W-E-N-T-Y?

672
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:05,620
Speaker 2: The number 20 after stuff you should know.

673
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:06,780
Speaker 1: So 2-0.

674
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,020
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could stock up your own fallout shelter.

675
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: You can eat that stuff for lunch. Doesn't take up

676
00:32:12,460 --> 00:32:13,790
Speaker 2: a lot of room. Good calories.

677
00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:15,370
Speaker 1: It's multipurpose food.

678
00:32:15,510 --> 00:32:16,750
Speaker 2: You got to use some water for it, though.

679
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:18,950
Speaker 1: Right. But I mean, hey.

680
00:32:19,290 --> 00:32:21,170
Speaker 2: Or you could collectively spit in it, I guess, and

681
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:22,710
Speaker 2: heat that up. That's grody.

682
00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:25,489
Speaker 1: You're going to get that water anyway, though, you know,

683
00:32:25,510 --> 00:32:26,990
Speaker 1: because you're going to drink the juice.

684
00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: That's true. So back to the public shelters, they have

685
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,060
Speaker 2: these pretty well stocked. They said there was an actual

686
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:36,140
Speaker 2: booklet in there that said, if you want a toilet,

687
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,530
Speaker 2: cut a seat out of a chair and put a

688
00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:40,790
Speaker 2: bucket under it. And there's your toilet.

689
00:32:41,470 --> 00:32:44,130
Speaker 1: And so when that pamphlet came out in particular, the

690
00:32:44,190 --> 00:32:46,610
Speaker 1: American citizenry said, like, for real, this is what our

691
00:32:46,630 --> 00:32:49,330
Speaker 1: tax dollars are doing. This is what we're getting from

692
00:32:49,390 --> 00:32:51,750
Speaker 1: our government. Cut a hole in the seat of a

693
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: chair and put a bucket under there. That's your advice

694
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,790
Speaker 1: for the nuclear war that you're half responsible for having

695
00:32:59,830 --> 00:33:00,910
Speaker 1: us live under the threat of.

696
00:33:01,020 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: Right. They said, we're not socialists. You take care of yourself. Yeah.

697
00:33:04,660 --> 00:33:07,180
Speaker 1: So the thing is, is like people would people would

698
00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: people would read newspapers or people would like watch the

699
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,470
Speaker 1: news or whatever. And they would be getting one channel

700
00:33:16,510 --> 00:33:19,750
Speaker 1: of information that was saying, like, yeah, here's what this,

701
00:33:19,950 --> 00:33:22,630
Speaker 1: you know, what a one megaton bomb could possibly do

702
00:33:22,650 --> 00:33:24,700
Speaker 1: to you. Or if this blew up over New York City,

703
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: this is what would happen. And people would say, well,

704
00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: what's the point of having these fallout shelters? Because if

705
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,930
Speaker 1: a bomb goes off over New York City, all of

706
00:33:33,990 --> 00:33:37,830
Speaker 1: those fallout shelters are going to be totally obliterated. There's

707
00:33:37,890 --> 00:33:42,890
Speaker 1: no point for them. And the government in doing something

708
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:46,510
Speaker 1: like trying to at least lift some finger and make

709
00:33:46,590 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: people feel less anxious actually had the opposite effect because

710
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:53,660
Speaker 1: it drew a lot of attention and focus to the

711
00:33:53,790 --> 00:33:57,330
Speaker 1: need for fallout shelters while at the same time reinforcing

712
00:33:57,390 --> 00:33:59,830
Speaker 1: the idea that these fallout shelters weren't going to be

713
00:33:59,870 --> 00:34:03,890
Speaker 1: worth anything for anybody unless maybe you lived in Topeka

714
00:34:04,330 --> 00:34:07,570
Speaker 1: or somewhere where there wasn't what's known as a key

715
00:34:07,610 --> 00:34:11,070
Speaker 1: target so that you might actually survive in a fallout

716
00:34:11,110 --> 00:34:14,380
Speaker 1: shelter that was well stocked and had few enough people.

717
00:34:14,739 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: It could work, but for most Americans, especially ones in

718
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: major cities, you're going to be in bad shape. And

719
00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: the fallout shelter program really kind of pointed that out.

720
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:25,739
Speaker 1: All right.

721
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 2: Should we take a break?

722
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:27,700
Speaker 1: I think so. All right.

723
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,489
Speaker 2: We'll take our last break and we'll be back right

724
00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:54,109
Speaker 2: after this. So before we broke, you said something about

725
00:34:54,130 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: unless you live in Topeka, doesn't Kansas have silos or no?

726
00:34:58,930 --> 00:35:02,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, as I was saying it, I was like, shh. Yeah,

727
00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said something. At least they'll save us

728
00:35:04,660 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: the emails.

729
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: Okay, because that, you know, we did mention, but, you know,

730
00:35:08,300 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 2: we talked about game theory earlier about how the reasoning was, no,

731
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: you don't need to worry if you're in a big

732
00:35:13,940 --> 00:35:15,620
Speaker 2: city because there aren't military bases there.

733
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 1: Right.

734
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,850
Speaker 2: But, you know, that sort of goes the way of–

735
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,739
Speaker 2: that war goes once anything goes wrong. So if one

736
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:29,180
Speaker 2: bomb from the opposition, from the enemy, goes to somewhere

737
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,830
Speaker 2: it isn't supposed to go, then all bets are off, basically.

738
00:35:33,230 --> 00:35:33,430
Speaker 1: Yeah.

739
00:35:33,710 --> 00:35:34,810
Speaker 2: And then it's just bomb away.

740
00:35:35,410 --> 00:35:38,170
Speaker 1: Also, I want to give a shout-out to Robert Clara

741
00:35:38,250 --> 00:35:42,069
Speaker 1: from History.com, who wrote Nuclear Fallout Shelters Were Never Going

742
00:35:42,110 --> 00:35:45,489
Speaker 1: to Work, who wrote a pretty great article about how

743
00:35:45,890 --> 00:35:47,989
Speaker 1: this whole program was kind of doomed from the start.

744
00:35:48,010 --> 00:35:48,730
Speaker 2: It kind of says it all.

745
00:35:49,190 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: Ill-conceived you know but not only was it ill-conceived they

746
00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:55,540
Speaker 1: were also like poorly stocked some of these things that

747
00:35:55,580 --> 00:36:00,020
Speaker 1: were designated fallout shelters never got their supplies water drums

748
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,219
Speaker 1: were leaking and then um others worked really well so

749
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:07,460
Speaker 1: well in fact that there's one they found at the

750
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:12,500
Speaker 1: oyster adams bilingual school in dc which is a school

751
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,580
Speaker 1: still functioning today part of dc public schools but there

752
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: is a fallout shelter that's like a um a time capsule, basically,

753
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: that has all of the original provisions in it, just

754
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:23,860
Speaker 1: frozen in time still.

755
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,010
Speaker 2: Wow. It's really neat. Yeah, like that house in California.

756
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,450
Speaker 1: Yeah, basically. Except this was one of the designated public

757
00:36:31,489 --> 00:36:33,510
Speaker 1: fallout shelters, but below a school.

758
00:36:33,690 --> 00:36:35,850
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, didn't they try to build them to

759
00:36:36,489 --> 00:36:40,450
Speaker 2: house at least 50 people? Mm-hmm. And I think they had,

760
00:36:40,510 --> 00:36:42,670
Speaker 2: they recommended for the personal ones that they be at

761
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:46,710
Speaker 2: least six and a half feet tall. Yeah. And that

762
00:36:46,730 --> 00:36:49,830
Speaker 2: was one of the things that sort of would have

763
00:36:49,850 --> 00:36:52,410
Speaker 2: been the toughest, I think, about fallout shelters. So many

764
00:36:52,469 --> 00:36:57,170
Speaker 2: of them had very low ceilings. Obviously, there's no windows.

765
00:36:57,230 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 2: I mean, bunker life is tough going. And they recommended

766
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 2: two weeks, which is nuts to me. There's no way

767
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,900
Speaker 2: I'm poking my head out after two weeks just to

768
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:10,920
Speaker 2: see if it's how things are going up there.

769
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: Right. And I mean, like there was some logic and

770
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,339
Speaker 1: reasoning to that two weeks in that there's that you

771
00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:18,620
Speaker 1: would have exceeded the half-life of a lot of the

772
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,140
Speaker 1: radionuclides that are created. But yeah, there's plenty that would

773
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,729
Speaker 1: still be around. Yes, it was never going to work

774
00:37:26,810 --> 00:37:27,989
Speaker 1: like Robert Clara put it.

775
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:30,850
Speaker 2: No, and I think that was sort of the idea

776
00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:34,010
Speaker 2: of what you were talking about with the public being

777
00:37:34,150 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 2: so disheartened and feeling helpless about our civil defense was... Like,

778
00:37:41,540 --> 00:37:43,380
Speaker 2: this is the general public, and they didn't think it

779
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 2: seemed like a good plan.

780
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: But it makes me wonder, though, is that a good thing? Like,

781
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:50,500
Speaker 1: it sucks to have that kind of mental anxiety that

782
00:37:50,620 --> 00:37:53,660
Speaker 1: we all collectively had during the Cold War, especially at

783
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:55,219
Speaker 1: the height of this stuff, like in the 60s. Yeah.

784
00:37:57,310 --> 00:38:00,190
Speaker 1: I think it might have actually been good because then

785
00:38:00,230 --> 00:38:03,380
Speaker 1: the public was aware of just how dangerous things were

786
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 1: and would prevent a kind of cavalier attitude toward nuclear

787
00:38:07,780 --> 00:38:09,980
Speaker 1: war because they knew what was at stake and what

788
00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: was at stake were their very lives.

789
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:15,110
Speaker 2: Maybe. I mean, and maybe that's a bottom-up sort of

790
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:19,190
Speaker 2: like a groundswell of public thought ekes its way up

791
00:38:19,250 --> 00:38:23,250
Speaker 2: into government. And, you know, I mean, I guess we'll

792
00:38:23,290 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 2: never know how close– I mean, I don't think we've

793
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,060
Speaker 2: ever done one on the nuclear, the Cuban Missile Crisis.

794
00:38:31,219 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: Have we not?

795
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,739
Speaker 2: I don't think specifically, but, you know, we've been on

796
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,259
Speaker 2: the brink in a way that history has recognized, but

797
00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:41,700
Speaker 2: I'm curious how close it's been in times that we

798
00:38:41,739 --> 00:38:42,819
Speaker 2: never even knew about, you know?

799
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: There's one guy who celebrated every year, I can't remember

800
00:38:46,580 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: what the day is, but it's basically like Save the

801
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: World Day, where this one Soviet soldier I guess a

802
00:38:54,260 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: missile commander basically had a few minutes, was being told

803
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: by his computers and all of his underlings that the U.S.

804
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: had launched a massive strike and that, you know, it

805
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,580
Speaker 1: was up to him to call and order this counter

806
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,340
Speaker 1: strike or call the people who would order the counter strike.

807
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:14,739
Speaker 1: And he sweated it out. He said that he just

808
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:18,899
Speaker 1: didn't believe that the Americans would have launched an unprovoked

809
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,830
Speaker 1: all out nuclear strike like he was being shown. and

810
00:39:23,090 --> 00:39:26,509
Speaker 1: he stayed his hand and literally saved the world from

811
00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: a nuclear war single-handedly. thing is, Chuck, is that has

812
00:39:30,890 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 1: happened more than once.

813
00:39:32,580 --> 00:39:37,140
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. It's funny that, like, we're basically

814
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,140
Speaker 2: the last generation that grew up with any knowledge of

815
00:39:41,180 --> 00:39:42,899
Speaker 2: the threat of nuclear war like this.

816
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:43,500
Speaker 1: Yeah.

817
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: Like, we sort of experienced the tail end of the

818
00:39:45,300 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: Cold War.

819
00:39:46,100 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: Perfect generation.

820
00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:51,739
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's hard to... The Friendly Fire podcast, which

821
00:39:51,980 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: is one of my favorites, the war movie podcast that

822
00:39:55,300 --> 00:39:58,500
Speaker 2: our buddies Ben Harrison and Adam Pranica and John Roderick do.

823
00:39:59,140 --> 00:40:02,339
Speaker 2: They're younger. Roderick's, you know, a few years older than me.

824
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,260
Speaker 1: Way old.

825
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,219
Speaker 2: So way older than you. But John kind of drives

826
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 2: this point home a lot about like it's really hard

827
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:14,689
Speaker 2: to put into words what that does to a set

828
00:40:14,710 --> 00:40:18,089
Speaker 2: of generations when we're all sort of living under this

829
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,180
Speaker 2: you know, very real threat that we could all die

830
00:40:22,469 --> 00:40:25,930
Speaker 2: the worst possible death. And, you know, not like, oh,

831
00:40:25,950 --> 00:40:27,689
Speaker 2: you kids have got it made or anything like that.

832
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:30,710
Speaker 2: But it's a different sort of mindset, you know?

833
00:40:30,730 --> 00:40:33,950
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it definitely is. And it definitely affects

834
00:40:33,989 --> 00:40:36,270
Speaker 1: you from every stage of your life, you know?

835
00:40:36,469 --> 00:40:37,950
Speaker 2: I mean, it went away by the time we were

836
00:40:37,989 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: in college. But, you know, I remember my early years, obviously,

837
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,060
Speaker 2: we were digging a fallout shelter. It was a big threat.

838
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: And movies and TV reinforce that every day.

839
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,980
Speaker 1: Yep. So if you wanted to build a fallout shelter,

840
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: we have to say there was a time in addition

841
00:40:56,260 --> 00:41:00,050
Speaker 1: to designating fallout shelters. By the way, if you find

842
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: one of those old fallout shelter signs, hang on to it.

843
00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:06,610
Speaker 1: You can pretty much take it. And unless there's a

844
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:11,470
Speaker 1: close watching groundskeeper Willie type who takes care of that building,

845
00:41:12,110 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: nobody's probably going to notice it's gone. Yeah. And the U.S.

846
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,540
Speaker 1: government has no idea how many are out there because

847
00:41:17,580 --> 00:41:20,219
Speaker 1: they never kept track of the fallout shelters. There was

848
00:41:20,260 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: no registry or anything. Yeah.

849
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,090
Speaker 2: I mean, they started shutting these down in the early

850
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:28,150
Speaker 2: 70s officially, started giving away the food, sent some of

851
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:33,109
Speaker 2: it to organizations in Africa and Bangladesh. And then those

852
00:41:33,150 --> 00:41:36,830
Speaker 2: signs started, I think, in the mid-70s, started pulling those

853
00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:39,870
Speaker 2: signs out. And I think finally, just three years ago

854
00:41:39,930 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 2: in 2017, they said that They said that they got

855
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,020
Speaker 2: the last of the signs out of New York City.

856
00:41:46,460 --> 00:41:46,900
Speaker 1: Right.

857
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:48,960
Speaker 2: And I don't think we mentioned it's hysterical that they

858
00:41:48,980 --> 00:41:51,860
Speaker 2: built these fallout shelters in Manhattan and Brooklyn.

859
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 1: Right.

860
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,940
Speaker 2: As if that would, you know, that would lead to

861
00:41:54,980 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: good things.

862
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:55,740
Speaker 1: Be spared.

863
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Or be spared.

864
00:41:57,219 --> 00:42:02,630
Speaker 1: Right. So if you did want to make a fallout shelter,

865
00:42:02,670 --> 00:42:07,150
Speaker 1: there's a pamphlet put out by Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

866
00:42:07,780 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: Where they basically hired boys. Yeah. They they had a

867
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:16,180
Speaker 1: sideline in studying nuclear disaster survival. Well, like you couldn't

868
00:42:16,219 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: tell with their beard, you know.

869
00:42:17,580 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: Right.

870
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,230
Speaker 1: But this pamphlet basically was the result of Oak Ridge

871
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:26,379
Speaker 1: hiring a bunch of families, regular old American families. And

872
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: saying a nuclear war is happening right now. Go build

873
00:42:29,980 --> 00:42:32,620
Speaker 1: a fallout shelter. Here's your instructions. And then seeing how

874
00:42:32,739 --> 00:42:35,670
Speaker 1: easy it could be done and then adjusting the instructions

875
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:38,029
Speaker 1: and so on and so forth until they finally got

876
00:42:38,050 --> 00:42:41,180
Speaker 1: to this pamphlet. And the pamphlet basically came up with

877
00:42:41,219 --> 00:42:45,690
Speaker 1: this really good idea. fallout shelter where you just basically

878
00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:48,770
Speaker 1: dug a trench in in the ground that was several

879
00:42:48,810 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: feet deep covered it with wood poles covered the wood

880
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: poles with something like cloth the old bed sheet something

881
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: like that put dirt on it put shower curtains something

882
00:42:59,060 --> 00:43:01,420
Speaker 1: waterproof and then put more dirt on that and they

883
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:05,629
Speaker 1: actually figured out that this particular fallout shelter had like

884
00:43:05,650 --> 00:43:08,589
Speaker 1: a a A protection factor of like 300.

885
00:43:08,590 --> 00:43:08,910
Speaker 2: Really?

886
00:43:08,930 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it would also survive a blast that most

887
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,500
Speaker 1: houses would not survive.

888
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:13,820
Speaker 2: Wow.

889
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: Because you're just basically hunkered down in the earth. And

890
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:20,819
Speaker 1: it would work for you if you wanted to. And

891
00:43:20,860 --> 00:43:23,299
Speaker 1: they said that it can be done. They used the

892
00:43:23,340 --> 00:43:28,660
Speaker 1: example that two non-athletic college-age girls did it in 36 hours.

893
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,190
Speaker 1: That was how they were selling it.

894
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,739
Speaker 2: We got a couple of girl couch potatoes.

895
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,340
Speaker 1: Right. Right. Look at them.

896
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:37,980
Speaker 2: Wow.

897
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:38,070
Speaker 1: Yep.

898
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 2: When I was reading about that, I figured you'd get

899
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 2: maybe a 20 out of that.

900
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: A 20? What do you mean?

901
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:45,100
Speaker 2: For PF.

902
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: No, a 1 300th. Wow. Yeah. So there you go.

903
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:51,950
Speaker 1: Thank you, Oak Ridge boys.

904
00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: Giddy up. Oom-pah-pah.

905
00:43:54,410 --> 00:43:57,549
Speaker 1: And since Chuck said that, everybody, it's time for Listener Mail.

906
00:43:57,570 --> 00:44:00,870
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to call this....

907
00:44:03,070 --> 00:44:05,390
Speaker 2: A series of apologies to Australia.

908
00:44:06,330 --> 00:44:07,989
Speaker 1: Oh, boy. Yeah, I know what this is about.

909
00:44:08,050 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 2: So before we get into the email, I do think

910
00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:14,259
Speaker 2: we should address this, that we've had some ads running

911
00:44:14,300 --> 00:44:19,460
Speaker 2: in Australia only that have been no good. And these

912
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:21,500
Speaker 2: aren't ads that we knew about. These aren't ads that

913
00:44:21,540 --> 00:44:26,989
Speaker 2: we read. We have a separate company in Australia that's

914
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:30,410
Speaker 2: doing that for us. And everything is under review right

915
00:44:30,450 --> 00:44:33,189
Speaker 2: now because... Um, we don't want these ads out there.

916
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:36,110
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a, it's a new relationship and we're

917
00:44:36,219 --> 00:44:37,549
Speaker 1: kind of figuring each other out.

918
00:44:37,660 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 2: That's right. Um, but we do want to say that, uh,

919
00:44:40,420 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: none of these ads were our decision. Um, if you're

920
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,940
Speaker 2: out there and your interest is peaked and you're like,

921
00:44:44,980 --> 00:44:47,620
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, what are they talking about? I'll never know.

922
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 2: They were, you know, there were ads for like mining

923
00:44:49,820 --> 00:44:51,660
Speaker 2: companies and stuff like that, among other things.

924
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,180
Speaker 1: Not super S Y S K type stuff.

925
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,620
Speaker 2: No, that's right. And, and we wanted to address it

926
00:44:56,660 --> 00:45:00,390
Speaker 2: head on. Uh, but also we wanted to address our own, uh,

927
00:45:00,910 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: foibles in the billabongs terminology that we were talking about

928
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: in the wetlands episode.

929
00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:08,299
Speaker 1: Just shameful, man. It is.

930
00:45:08,739 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 2: And this is something we should know, even though we

931
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 2: are not Australians. But we use the term Aborigines very

932
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:19,100
Speaker 2: sort of willy-nilly. And this is an email from Tanita.

933
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,580
Speaker 2: She said, in the episode on wetlands, you used a

934
00:45:21,620 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: number of terms talking about billabongs that were not correct terminology.

935
00:45:26,060 --> 00:45:30,150
Speaker 2: The term Aborigines is considered outdated and and offensive as

936
00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:33,590
Speaker 2: it groups all indigenous groups into one term and its

937
00:45:33,650 --> 00:45:38,350
Speaker 2: connotations of colonial Australia. Some of the current terms and

938
00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:45,270
Speaker 2: correct terms for traditional owners of Australia include aboriginal people, indigenous,

939
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:48,390
Speaker 2: First Nations people, and this is something that, you know,

940
00:45:48,860 --> 00:45:49,660
Speaker 2: we just should have known.

941
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: So, Yeah, plus, I mean, it applies to more than

942
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:56,500
Speaker 1: just the native people of Australia, too, you know? So,

943
00:45:56,620 --> 00:45:57,020
Speaker 1: of course.

944
00:45:57,420 --> 00:45:59,460
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we got a bunch of emails from people

945
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 2: that said, if you really want to do right by

946
00:46:01,700 --> 00:46:04,100
Speaker 2: these people, you need to research the exact people that

947
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,180
Speaker 2: you're talking about, like the Palawa people from Tasmania, where

948
00:46:09,219 --> 00:46:13,670
Speaker 2: she's from, or the Anaiwan people from the area around Armidale,

949
00:46:13,770 --> 00:46:16,950
Speaker 2: where she lives now. And we didn't do that, and

950
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: she said there were 250 different languages available In Australia,

951
00:46:20,140 --> 00:46:25,020
Speaker 2: before invasion, only 120 are now spoken. Billabong, in fact,

952
00:46:25,060 --> 00:46:29,500
Speaker 2: comes from the We're a Jury language from central New

953
00:46:29,540 --> 00:46:32,780
Speaker 2: South Wales and is now a common Australian English term.

954
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: And that is from Tanita and many others.

955
00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:38,710
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking it easy on us, Tanita.

956
00:46:38,730 --> 00:46:41,590
Speaker 1: That was very nice. Super Australian of you as well.

957
00:46:41,969 --> 00:46:45,290
Speaker 1: Just laid back and nice. And not at all like

958
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:47,650
Speaker 1: chest pokey. So we appreciate that.

959
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:50,210
Speaker 2: That's right. And, you know, if you're in the United

960
00:46:50,250 --> 00:46:53,150
Speaker 2: States and you're not quite sure what even this means,

961
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:57,069
Speaker 2: it'd basically be like just saying Africa as a lump

962
00:46:57,140 --> 00:47:00,779
Speaker 2: all term for like any tribe in Africa and the

963
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 2: culture and the language that is very specific to that region. Right.

964
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 2: And we're not hip to that.

965
00:47:06,780 --> 00:47:09,779
Speaker 1: No. So thanks again. Who was that? Tanita. Yeah.

966
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: Okay.

967
00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:14,489
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Tanita. Tanita. Thanks again, Australia, for taking such

968
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:16,770
Speaker 1: good care of us over there. We appreciate you guys.

969
00:47:17,310 --> 00:47:19,770
Speaker 1: And thanks to everybody who listens to Stuff You Should Know.

970
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:21,750
Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us

971
00:47:21,870 --> 00:47:23,990
Speaker 1: for any reason, no matter where you live in the world,

972
00:47:24,310 --> 00:47:27,110
Speaker 1: no matter what language you speak, you can send us

973
00:47:27,150 --> 00:47:33,670
Speaker 1: an email to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com.

974
00:47:34,110 --> 00:47:36,970
Speaker 2: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

975
00:47:36,989 --> 00:47:41,090
Speaker 2: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts,

976
00:47:41,270 --> 00:47:43,030
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.