WEBVTT - China Banned Crypto One Year Ago. What's Changed? 0:00:02.600 --> 0:00:05.920 This is Bloomberg Crypto at daily Bloomberg. I heart podcast 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:09.520 and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, managing editor of Crypto for 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:27.200 Bloomberg News. It's Friday September. This September marked the one 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:32.840 year anniversary of China declaring the crypto transactions were effectively illegal. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.040 At the time, the decision triggered sharp declines in Crypto markets, 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:42.160 even though it wasn't entirely unexpected news, because it wasn't 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.159 the first time that China had sold to crackdown on CRYPTO. 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:47.879 That's been happening in one form or another since at 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:54.400 least two thousand thirteen. Still, declaration prompted some pretty swift 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.000 and significant changes. Among the biggest of these was the 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:02.520 effect on bitcoin minors, who left China in droves. Many 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.960 of them set up shopping places like Texas in the US. 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:09.440 To better understand the state of CRYPTO and China, we'll 0:01:09.440 --> 0:01:13.399 talk to Bloomberg reporters Uihi Yang The verall takeaway is 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.360 China is becoming less relevant in the global cryptal community 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:23.560 and David Pan the cryptal minors were definitely scrambling to 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.440 get their mining machines out of China and we'll hear 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.320 from Winston Ma. You know, China's crypto regulation is very 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:38.680 compressive and essentially it prohibits cryptal mining, trading and transactions. 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.880 A venture capitalist at cloud tree ventures and the law 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:55.400 professor at New York University Law School, David U, is 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.720 always a pleasure to have you in the studio. Around 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:02.840 this time last year, China decide that for real, actually officially, 0:02:03.320 --> 0:02:06.640 they were going to declare all forms of CRYPTO transactions 0:02:06.680 --> 0:02:10.040 to be illicit. Chinese regulators of Jumato have been talking 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.320 tough for months, but on Friday they released a missive 0:02:13.400 --> 0:02:16.480 that removed all doubt. It wasn't just a central bank, 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:21.360 it was also nine regulatory agencies, and they specifically called 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:25.799 out offshore exchanges, targeting Chinese users, banning them from hiring 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.400 locally for roles that rang. Now, this was not the 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.160 first time that China had started cracking down on crypto. 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.919 It wasn't even the second time, but it did seem 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.160 to be the most significant, not least because that band 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.800 came with threats of like criminal penalties and other things 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:44.920 that didn't really sound fun at all. And so, David, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.800 I'd love to start with you on in the days 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.560 that followed that declaration. What happened to the crypto minors 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:54.880 and why were so many crypto minors in China in 0:02:54.880 --> 0:03:00.120 the first place? The crypto minors were definitely scrambling to 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:04.360 get their mining machines out of China because some of 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:08.480 these local governments by enforced the law. Essentially they were 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.399 literally confiscating the the mining ricks from all of these 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.640 mining farms. So they were rushing to like ports like 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.040 in Shinjin in south China. You know, they they were 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.800 trying to find any possible way to resell their use 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:25.320 the machines to other parts of the world, you know, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.400 like the US. Were even Central Asia, Eastern Europe and 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.080 anywhere you can possibly think of, and were they selling 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:34.000 the machines where? They're trying to get those machines to 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:36.280 those places so they could use them again. Like what 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:41.040 was happening? I'm a minor in China. This declaration comes down. 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:44.280 What do I do next? First, they have to unplock 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.000 millions of mining machines. So that was the thing they 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.160 had to do because the national gride in China, the 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.960 regulators were able to monitor the electricity usage of the 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.960 bitcoin mining farming, especially the large scales, large scale, big 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.240 in mining farms, because there's really easy to spot them 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.160 on the grid. So they had to close down all 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:09.800 of these farms first, otherwise they're going to be put 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:13.280 into jail according to this new declaration. So they did 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:17.200 that and then they started thinking about how they can 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:22.679 transfer their mining operations from China to places like Texas, Russia, 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.320 you know, all of these other places. U Really I'd 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:29.040 love to get your perspective on what it meant for flows, 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.960 transaction volumes. You know, in addition to China having been 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.880 a mining hub, they were arguably, for a while like 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:40.080 the center of CRYPTO transactions in the corners of the 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:42.679 markets that you cover. What were some of the effects 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:46.480 of this band? So we know that historically there's a 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.679 like you said, there's a large community of Chinese speaking 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:56.320 crypto founders, investors, users and after the band in China 0:04:56.440 --> 0:05:00.360 and the correct in China and crypto volumes had tipped 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.960 and China fell out of the top ten ranking of 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.839 global cryptal adoption index by train analysis. But then this 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.920 year China analysis said that China has re entered to 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.720 the top ten after placing as the number of thirteens 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.279 in one and then this index showed that either the 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.840 rules in China are not strictly enforced or there are 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.200 just people who are still able to circumvent the rule 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.560 using VP N and still participate in these cryptal services. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:35.719 So I think when we talked to Chinese cryptal founders 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:41.400 and investors, the overall takeaway is China is becoming less 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:45.840 relevant in the global cryptal community, but the Chinese diaspora 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:49.400 are not. They're still very active, a lot of them. 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.600 There's still a lot of those folks who did move, 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:54.120 they did leave the country. Are you hearing from any 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.120 of them that they are media plans to, you know, 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.760 to your points about whether the rules are being less 0:05:59.760 --> 0:06:01.839 and as the people are just getting, you know, clever? 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.200 Are they looking at setting up again in China, or 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:07.800 is this do you feel like we're kind of at 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.039 a stage where it's like, nope, we're here, this is 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.680 the plan, this is how we're moving forward. So I 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:18.120 think there are two groups of people making two totally 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:22.359 different types of choices. Even though China crackdown on Crypto 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.640 blockchain technology is still encouraged in China and there are 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.440 efforts to find more use cases in blockchain in China 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.719 an F T as a digital collectible. It's also allowed, 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.680 even though you can't really trade them on the secondary market, 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.960 and therefore make it just fundamentally very different from the 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.760 N ft in the rest of the world. But there 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:49.400 are companies and even the state media, Shinhua, they issued 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.280 an Ft. so there are efforts like that that are 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:56.640 still existing in China. So there's one group of people 0:06:56.960 --> 0:06:59.000 who would say that I want to stay in China 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.599 and I want to bet on this parallel version of 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.760 webs three in China that's kind of cut off from 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.600 the rest of the world and then has its own rule. 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.720 The block chains are usually permissioned. And then the second 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.560 group will be the ones that we talked about that 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.840 are moving out of China. They are still active in 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:22.160 the global crypto community, but they're operating from Singapore, Dubai, 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:27.120 the US, Um Europe and other places. David, I want 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:28.960 to go back to you. You know, a lot of 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.960 your reporting has been around the fact that the folks 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.840 running these companies got out of China, got their equipment 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.000 out of China, or mostly got their equipments out of 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:42.600 China and went to Lubbock or, you know, somewhere else 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.160 in Texas or went to Kazakhstan and other places and 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.560 ran into some unexpected challenges. What were some of those challenges? 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.600 I think they are still facing a lot of challenges 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.080 as of now. One of the biggest the ones that 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.360 will be the connections. Like you know, they don't have 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.960 to connects to begin with. For example in China that 0:08:03.040 --> 0:08:07.080 didn't have to purchase power like you know, formal like 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.800 agreement with the legal recourse. But like in Texas, they 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.040 have to find brokers, they have to find suppliers and 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.760 big established legacy energy companies to work with, and so 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.960 they have to find those kind of partners locally. In 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.480 Texas they didn't have that kind of relationships. So that's 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.080 a very big DISTU the meantage compared to the local miners, 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.000 you know, such as riot and Marathon, all of this 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.000 US based mining companies. You know, it strikes me, as 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:39.160 we're having this conversation, that's so similar to what folks 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:44.440 who tried to set up like manufacturing in Michigan or 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:49.320 these other intersections where they were clearly like incumbent US 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:53.520 companies that had been doing things. And we're running into 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:59.040 differences in language, differences in you know, even just like technology, 0:08:59.120 --> 0:09:01.720 the ways of doing things, are any of those kinds 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:05.280 of elements also affecting the ability of Chinese miners to 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:10.000 unseat the local incumbents, as it were, exactly. I think 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:12.200 that is a really big problem. I think there was 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.280 a documentary about like the Chinese factory was like a 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.920 culture shock between the Chinese companies and the local employees. 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.960 That kind of scenario is exactly playing out amount the 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.520 Chinese mining companies as well. For example, one big mining 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.480 company CEO told me like when they went to like 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.400 mid Western states like Ohio and when they set up 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.319 the shop there and they realized that the American workers 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:40.640 take way too many vacation days, whereas all of their 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:44.800 Chinese colleagues were working around the clock and then try to, 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:48.840 you know, finish the construction, tried to build out infrastructure. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.280 So for them, I think it was definitely something they 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.559 hadn't anticipated when they decided to move to the US, 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:00.400 like in the middle of the US. I help but 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.640 laugh at the idea that Americans have a lot of 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.079 vacation days because, having moved here from London, where it's 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.040 just like all vacation days all the time, I'm frankly 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.520 stunned that, but you know, you learn. You learn something 0:10:14.559 --> 0:10:16.679 new every single day. I feel like this is one 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:21.920 of the more interesting, kind of useful and nuanced episodes 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:23.360 that we've been able to have on the show so far. 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.560 So thank you both for taking the time. I really 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.080 appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. You can find more 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:31.760 of their reporting on the Bloomberg terminal, on Bloomberg Dot 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.959 Com and on twitter. Uh is at UH underscore Yang. 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:41.560 That's why U E Q I underscore y a n 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:46.440 G and David is David underscore pan one. That's D 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:51.520 A v I D P A N underscore one. Up Next, 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:54.679 more on the consequences of China's approach to Crypto with 0:10:54.720 --> 0:11:11.679 Winston Ma of cloud ree ventures. Winston, what a delight 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.800 to have you on the podcast. Thanks very much for 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.880 having me. Well, let's talk about two of your books, 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.080 the one that you just published about blockchain and web 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:22.160 three and an earlier one with the kind of the 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.800 provocative title of the digital war, about the sort of 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:29.160 the standoff, as it were, between the Chinese approach to 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.160 tech and the US approach to tech. How are you 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.880 seeing this all play out in the universe of blockchain 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:39.719 and web three. Great question to me. You know, the 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:44.200 the evolution of the titles actually represents the evolution of 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:50.400 China's tech development as well as the corresponding interaction with 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:52.760 the US. You know that the book the Digital War 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:59.120 was a sequel to my earlier book book China's mobile economy. And, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:05.760 as that suggested, right UH was a year of China's 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:09.280 mobile revolution. So the so the focus at that time 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:13.760 was all about smart phone, mobile payment and the mobile 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.400 e commerce. But from there, you know, China started to 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:26.320 shift its focus from Internet development into hard technologies such 0:12:26.360 --> 0:12:30.920 as the Ai Blockchain, cloud computing, data centers, et CETERA. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.559 You know that that's why my book had the title 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:40.280 the Digital War. How China's tech power shapes the future 0:12:40.600 --> 0:12:44.160 of AI, Blockchain and the cyberspace, now relating to the 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.520 blockchain web three topics. So you could say that blockchain 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.679 web three is a new frontier of the U S 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:57.840 and the China Tech Competition. Now on your earlier book, 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.640 the Digital War, you know one of the things you 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:07.080 had in the cover was the logo for Tiktok, which 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.720 is owned by bye dance and, other than being probably 0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:13.800 the most popular APP in the world is at the 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:18.920 center of an escalating political battle, you know, with both 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:23.400 Republican and Democrat officials in the United States sort of, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.720 you know, making loud noises around whether it's appropriate for 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.640 Tiktok to be owned by a Chinese company. There are 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:37.640 no existing Chinese owned tech companies with a kind of 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.960 a metaverse focus, or defi focus and n f t focus, 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.520 that are as big in the US as Tiktok is. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.400 But do you see a world in which there is 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:50.960 like sort of a crypto tiktok equivalent coming out of China? 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:55.760 Not In the near term because, as this time you know, 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:02.280 China's crypto regulation is very compressive and century. It prohibits 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.800 crypto mining, trading and transactions. So in other words, you know, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:13.160 in China there's a broad band Um crypto usage in 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:18.880 the financial systems as well as in daily transactions. So therefore, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.560 the metaverse development in China is going through a very 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.000 different path. Mostly, importantly, it is token list or you 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.520 could say it cryptolists. What are the other elements of 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.120 being crypto less in kind of the Chinese blockchain? The 0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:40.440 N F T is a good example of this cryptalist thing, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:45.600 because n f t means nonfundable Tokens, right. So. So 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.640 when when the N ft term includes the reference to 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:55.440 token and the empty trading market sees exponential growth of volume, 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:57.920 it is hard to imagine that n f t s 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:03.080 can develop in China with to being associated with cryptocurrency 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.600 and its related regulations. That's why n teas are called 0:15:07.920 --> 0:15:13.520 digital collectible in China, to downplay the token aspect, the 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:18.400 currency aspect, and also, as you mentioned, the regulations limit 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.720 the second hand trading of an F T s. One 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.560 of the things I'm always struck by is how in 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:29.440 China and on Chinese APPS, in the Chinese APP ecosystem, 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:31.160 those are often all things you can do in like 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.280 one single APP, right like there's no need to have 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.440 exactly it's you know, here in New York I might 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:43.080 have a door, dash, an Amazon, an Uber, whereas in 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.640 if I'm in Beijing, I felt like one APP. I 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.200 can do all of those things at the same time. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:53.239 Are you seeing a similar trend with, you know, metaverse, blockchain, 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:58.440 digital collectibles being rolled into those big super apps? I 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.040 totally think so. In I know it's a very natural development. 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.800 You could say it's like a super APP going next level, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:08.520 right because, as you said, in the early years of 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:13.960 the mobile economy, Chinese companies were already focusing on building 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.240 up super APPs, hoping that they can keep as many 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:23.480 users in their ecosystem for as much time as possible. Right. So, 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:27.960 when you look at Ali Baba's e commerce APP, essentially 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.120 it's a combination of almost like one hundred small APPs. 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.800 So the concept is, you know, you can do everything 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.280 in one APP. One kind of as a closing maybe 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.120 super existential question, you know, in in places like the US, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.680 in Europe, one of the big propositions of blockchain is 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:52.400 this resistance to government surveillance. How is that shaping how 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.800 people are thinking about the utility of the blockchain in China? 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.960 I think for for users, the data privacy is truly 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.840 an important issue and it becomes even more urgent as 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.760 we move into the metaverse. So for users they have 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:11.399 to deal with the privacy issues with the big text 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:16.440 platforms as well as the digital infrastructure support suppliers. In China, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:21.080 because of the CRYPTO regulations, the government does not support 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.439 public blood chains. So for N F T place, for 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:29.240 gaming assets place right they have to be executed blood 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.480 chains that are regulated by the government and now in 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.159 the in the US, right the users can use the 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.280 park brood chains, which tends to be less centralized, even though, 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:42.439 you know, maybe blood chain of the bitcoin is the 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.160 only blood chain that's truly decentralized. However, we could say 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:50.120 in general the public broad chains are more decentralized. But 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.280 but still, you know, you have other data privacy issues 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.200 as well. For example, you know, all the data are 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:04.040 still held in three for major cloud cloud platforms like 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:09.240 the Amazon, Google, Microsoft, of those guys, right. So, so 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.560 you see, uh, it's a multi layer issues and I 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.520 think for the individual users not only there for their 0:18:17.600 --> 0:18:20.199 data privacy. You know, not only they're looking for public 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:25.520 broaches but also a more comprehensive data privacy solutions relating 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:30.760 to uh, data storage and management. Well, thank you so 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.119 much for being on the podcast. I feel like I 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.120 have certainly learned a lots and I hope our listeners 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.320 have as well. Really appreciate you taking the time. Thank 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.840 you very much. That was Winston Ma of cloud reventures. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.320 On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto we're going to 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.760 talk about exchange traded funds and specifically Crypto et F S. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:19:00.280 There's some interesting and perhaps unhelpful stuff. That's hoping with 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:02.560 their performance these days, and you'll hear more about that 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:08.520 on the next episode. This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.920 podcast from Bloomberg and I heart radio. For more shows 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.320 from I heart radio, visit the I heart radio APP, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:18.679 apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Send US 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.560 your comments, questions or suggestions for the show to Crypto 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.720 at Bloomberg Dot net or find us on twitter. We're 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:31.040 at CRYPTO. The supervising producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Vergalina. 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.840 Our senior producer is Janet Babin. Our producer is Sharon 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:39.320 burrieral associate producer is thy Butler. Desta wonder at is 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:44.760 our engineer. Original Music by Leo Sidrin. I'm Stacy, Marie Ishmael. 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:45.840 Have a great weekend.