WEBVTT - Nina Purewal Plus One: How to Let That Sh*t Go -- For Real 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.160 Before we left the house, my brother said, can I 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:11.719 come with you? And we said no, it's fine, it'll 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:15.560 be fine. And I still remember he was standing on 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.520 the upstairs banister and he said, can I get a 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.759 pair of Jean's mom And she goes sure, and you know, 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.079 we left the house and that was the last. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:26.319 Time I. 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:33.040 Saw him, and I just. 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:40.159 Felt horrible about being the sibling that got to survive. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.839 I felt like I couldn't save him. 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:49.839 I felt like I failed him. 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:54.000 Welcome to my Legacy. Before we begin today's episode, we 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:55.880 want to let our listeners and viewers know that we 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.920 will be discussing issues related to violence, suicide, and mental health. 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.400 Some of the topics may be distressing. If you or 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.479 someone you know is struggling, we encourage you to seek 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:12.160 professional support. Resources like the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline dial 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:17.199 nine eight eight or the crisis text hotline text home 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.679 to seven four one seven four one are available twenty 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.319 four to seven. Please know that this conversation is for 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.240 information purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Your 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.040 well being is critically important. Please listen at your own pace, 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:34.880 and please don't hesitate to take breaks or skip ahead 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:41.720 of needed today, we have the privilege of sitting down 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:46.399 with Nina Purewall, the international best selling author of Let 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:51.080 That Shit Go. Nina's journey is one of extraordinary resilience, 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:54.880 from profound loss to profound healing. She has taken life's 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:59.480 hardest moments and turned them into a legacy of helping others. Now, 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.520 what makes our conversations on my legacy unexpected and unique 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.320 is that we don't just hear from extraordinary individuals. We 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.360 hear from the people who know them best, those who 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.519 have walked alongside them in their journey. Nina, thanks so 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:12.480 much for joining us, and can you introduce us to 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:13.560 your plus one? 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.800 Absolutely, thank you so much for having us on. We 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.840 are completely honored to be here, and I would like 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.080 to introduce my plus one. This is Joe lions Rising. 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.400 Joe and I have been good friends for over twenty years. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.600 We started out working together in data analytics, so we're 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.600 both data geeks at heart. We have been on the 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.040 journey together of going from corporate to social enterprise. 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.000 We're both authors, and we. 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:46.320 Are very passionate about mental health and wellness. Joe has 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.799 a company that he founded called Data Gives Back, where 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.600 he donates over twenty five percent of his earnings to 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.919 an incredible organization call The Season Center for Grieving Children. 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:00.839 But my intention of the plus one was to bring 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.120 Joe on because he has an incredible story to tell 0:03:03.400 --> 0:03:06.160 and I want him to share his platform with everybody. 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:10.240 Benina, sincerely, we love you. We are inspired by your story. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:14.600 We're inspired by your determination. We're inspired by who you are, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.160 by what you've overcome, by what you put out in 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.160 the world. And Joe, it's just awesome to have you here. 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:25.200 Nina, you faced a devastating loss as a teenager. In 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:28.959 a real sense for me, I also faced a devastating 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:33.040 loss of a father at a very early age, but 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.920 one certainly that shaped the rest of your life. Can 0:03:37.960 --> 0:03:43.160 you share what you experienced and how years later you 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.200 were able to choose forgiveness. 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.000 I can see you and hear you and empathize with 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.520 being a child and traumatically losing a parent. And this 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.000 is why Joe and I are also good friends, because 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.160 Joe has gone through childhood trauma as well, and we've 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.440 been each other's great buddies throughout, which. 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.480 Is so important. 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:08.320 At sixteen, my parents were going through a pretty tumultuous 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.480 separation Actually, my mom wanted to leave my dad after 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.080 twenty two years of started what started out as physical 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.080 abuse and then you know a lot of psychological verbal abuse. 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.200 And she kind of made a promise to herself when 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:24.039 my brother was born that you know, when my son 0:04:24.080 --> 0:04:28.839 turns ten, if this behavior continues, I'm leaving. And sure 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.080 enough he turned ten, and she said, I can't do 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.400 this anymore. This is nineteen ninety six, and so she 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:40.880 served my dad with with divorce papers in December of 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:45.520 ninety six, and it was six months of a lot 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:50.720 of uncertainty, a lot of questionable behavior from my dad, 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:56.920 a lot of inconsistency, and that culminated in him in 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.240 May of nineteen ninety seven taking his own life life 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:07.200 and also taking my brothers as well. And you know 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.520 his it was premeditated and his plan was to take 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:15.680 mine too. He obviously wanted revenge and wanted to get 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.599 back at my mom and take you know, her kids 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:22.839 and himself, and he burnt the house down. I did 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:25.360 see the crime scene after the bodies were taken out. 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:32.640 It was very intense, and in that moment I really 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.960 had had nowhere to go. It was the nineties and 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:37.960 nobody was talking about mental health. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:39.960 No one was talking. 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:45.000 About really you were either in the psychiatric ward in 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.400 the hospital or you were quote unquote normal. And I 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.480 did a lot of reflecting, and this is why I'm 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.719 so passionate about mental health and specifically men and mental 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.520 health is I always think back to if my dad 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:02.559 had had the support that people have now with things 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.440 have still gone that way. So I am just so 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:10.520 grateful and lucky every single day to be here and 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:12.080 to be alive. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:16.320 Many years later. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.360 I mean, I couldn't even grieve my brother in the 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:23.000 beginning because I was so furious and angry with my dad. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.599 I had PTSD, I had survivor's guilt, and then I 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:29.680 kind of numbed my pain and I repressed it, which 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:31.960 I wouldn't recommend for anyone. But I went and got 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.360 my business degree. I had a great career in sales 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.200 and marketing. I was thriving and living life, and then 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:42.479 my mom passed away and everything hit me all over again, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:44.800 the loss, the grief. 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.600 And suddenly I had this epiphany moment that. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.840 I am holding on to all of this anger and 0:06:54.920 --> 0:07:00.520 resentment about what my dad did, and he's dead and gone, 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.960 so it's not impacting him anymore. 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:06.960 Who was it impacting It's impacting me. 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.800 And it was that moment that I realized my way 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.400 out of this was forgiveness, not for him not to 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.000 right his wrong, because when we forgive, we don't have 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:19.800 to write wrongs, we don't have to make up, we 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:23.040 don't have to be in a beautiful it's not a 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.720 beautiful romantic period piece where you're I'm sorry, I'm sorry, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.720 I love you, I love you. It can be you 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.160 can forgive someone who's no longer here. You can forgive 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:37.040 someone who you don't want in your life anymore. And 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:38.760 that's what I did. I went on a two year 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:45.000 journey to forgive him, because forgiveness is freedom for you. 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.920 You are letting go of the resentment, you are letting 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.280 go of the anger. And it's incredible what transpired in 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.679 my life after I went through that journey. 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:57.080 Nina, before we get to that stage, I want to 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.120 go back, because you and I have had extensive conversations 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:00.800 on this, and I just want to say, on behalf 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.480 of all of us. I'm getting choked up here just 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.160 how sorry we are for the loss and the tragic 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.400 nature of that loss. And I know you now look 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.400 at that loss in a different way because because you 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.800 also said something very powerful in so much that you 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:15.640 had survived your's guild because you survived. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.440 You know, before we left the house and my brother 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:20.680 said can I come with you? 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:25.080 And we said no, it's fine, It'll be fine. 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.200 And I still remember he was standing on the upstairs 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.760 banister and he said, can I get a par of 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:35.880 Jean's mom? And she goes sure, and you know, we 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.360 left the house and that was. 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:39.240 The last time I. 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:46.000 Saw him, and I just. 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:53.120 Felt horrible about being the sibling that got to survive. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.640 I felt like I couldn't save him. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.520 I felt like I failed him. 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.840 I mean, those last few moments played over and over 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:11.000 and over again in my head. I just did twenty 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.280 weeks of trauma healing a few years ago to address 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:15.120 the crime scene. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:18.800 But survivor's guilt is real. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:24.160 You feel terrible for living every day when the person 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:27.000 or someone you love so much didn't get the same opportunity. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.160 And what is your advice? Because I'm sure that a 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:37.360 lot of our listeners are experiencing that more than any 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.680 of us even realize, and they may feel the same way, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:46.679 trapped and alone and feeling that survivor's guilt. 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.880 Well, the first thing I always say, now you know, working. 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.360 In mental health, is to feel those feelings, to feel 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:56.400 the emotion. It's okay, it's healthy. But then you get 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:02.800 to a point where you they they don't want you 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:06.920 to feel that way that have passed. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:08.720 When I think. 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.320 About what my brother would have wanted, or when I 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:12.160 think about if the. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.120 Roles were reversed, you wouldn't want me. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:18.800 They don't want you to live the rest of your 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:23.160 life wondering why or feeling terrible that. 0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:24.120 They were in this situation. 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.959 They're they're in the light, They're they're happy, they're angels, 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.600 they're looking down. You know, they're not suffering. And I 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.680 think that was that was a big aha for me, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:38.080 is he's he's happy, and he's happy for me, and 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.800 I feel him too, and you. 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:42.400 Know he's moved on and he's free. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:46.120 We all struggled in that house growing up, and you 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:47.120 know he's he's free. 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:48.160 And so my. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.360 Advice would be to feel the fuels, to acknowledge you 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.920 know where they are now, and then to also surround yourself, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:11:00.400 thirdly with people who who understand and to work through it. 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:05.200 And I came across this organization called the Season Center 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.360 for Grieving Children, which Joe donates back to, and you 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.760 know where we are executive grief ambassadors now and that 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:18.240 honestly saved my life. The peer to peer support, and 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.719 I highly recommend that if you're going through loss, you're 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:24.960 going through tragedy or trauma, is to talk to people 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:25.720 who are. 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.719 Going through something similar. And I was finally in. 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:34.000 A room where teens had gone through very traumatic loss 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.959 and at sixteen, I mean, it's been so many years now, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:40.680 I still remember everybody's story and finally I felt at home. 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.439 I felt I didn't feel misunderstood. I felt like everybody 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.640 got what I was going through. But if you really 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.280 do feel stuck, to get the help, because I have 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:56.280 had many I still have therapists, grief counselors, psychologists helped 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.840 me go through this thing called life that we are 0:11:58.880 --> 0:11:59.920 all trying to navigate. 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.720 Nina, thank you for sharing that with us. And the 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:10.520 candor is besides, perhaps Martin, none of us can understand fully, 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:15.360 but perhaps Joe, I know you also bring And I 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.880 asked Nina why she invited you, and part of what 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:21.079 she spoke about your incredible ambassadorship and also the fact 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.760 that you have this unique bond that you and your 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:29.000 youth experienced also this profound trauma, and would you share 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.240 it with us so that people out there listening know 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.679 that they're also not alone, that others have experienced that journey, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.800 and especially if you can share with us some of 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:38.800 the journey of healing. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:41.960 Yeah, definitely. 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:46.719 Nina and I, now you know, on our forties, we 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:50.360 joke we're grief buddies. I do think the universe brought 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.839 us together. Even though we met twenty years ago, we 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.080 continued to be on this grief journey and it kind of. 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:56.480 Gets stronger year by year. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:03.160 But yeah, I did go through significant loss as a 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.520 child in the nineteen eighties. I lost my dad to 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:11.800 suicide when I was six years old. He had struggled 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:18.120 with bipolar and depression. And then a couple years later, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:23.680 my mom was diagnosed with multiple scrosis and unfortunately she 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:28.640 used succumb to depression herself, and she died by suicide 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:36.000 when I was ten. And you know, Nina and I 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.800 didn't know that the first time we met, when we 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.920 were doing market research and analytics, right, the first thing 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:42.880 you say to each other when you're starting a new 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.760 company are working, but I think it was at a 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.440 house party you had had or something we had had, 0:13:48.440 --> 0:13:51.200 and somehow we started talking about this and it was 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:57.160 like this instant magnetic force, like I have no idea 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.480 what you went through, she doesn't know what I went through, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.920 but we can like incredibly empathize with each other. And 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.920 that's been our connection and friendship. And it's been this 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.440 journey since then. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.440 And one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.080 Joe sharing his story is because, as I said earlier, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:18.040 men in mental health. 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.080 Is critically important. 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.280 I have done so much research and just lived experience 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:30.520 obviously of you know what happens when and traditionally, I 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.200 know I'm generalizing here, but people who identify as men 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.720 tend to not talk about their emotions as much and 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:42.280 not go there. Women have a more supportive kind of network, 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.000 and it's okay to meet up with a girlfriend and 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.720 cry the whole time, and you know, it's just not 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.000 as available for men. And so I really respect to 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:53.200 Joe for creating that space. And his book does talk 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.960 about grief and trauma and depression and anxiety, and I 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.320 think it's important that we acknowledge. 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.400 What we're going through well, Martin. 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.280 I admire how you've been so open from a young 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.120 age to encourage men to share their stories, and how 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:11.200 you've done it so powerfully and so brilliantly. 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.760 I wish our nation had addressed mental health thirty plus 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.280 years ago, but I'm grateful that we as a society 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:28.600 are working in that vein today. And I'm grateful for 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:34.200 you sharing your story with our audience. And we don't 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.880 know what kind of just the fact that you're able 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:42.000 to share is healing. You're putting out healing energy into 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:49.760 the universe, and you know it is vitally needed throughout 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:53.520 our nation and our world for our society to become 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.920 a better place and maybe for a sick society to 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.640 provide some medicine for itself. 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.760 And one of the things also that you both when 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.440 you talk about forgiveness, I want to just also highlight 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.520 what doctor King said about forgiveness, because one of the 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:17.480 ways in which the civil rights movement and that they 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.800 were able to continue on after your house is bombed, 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:24.280 after you know, dogs are being sick on you after 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.240 is that what that he he said is that you 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.080 separate the evil. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.440 Act from the individual. 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.520 That is also a way to forgive, because Nina, you're 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:38.360 talking about you don't. You don't necess you don't forget, 0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:40.720 but you are able to and you don't say that 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.760 what happened is okay. But what one thing that he 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:49.560 taught is that we separate the act from the individual. 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:51.480 I love that. 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:55.800 That's so powerful, and I love that you both talk 0:16:55.840 --> 0:17:00.600 about love so much. And if we live from that place, 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.240 I mean, we've seen the magic that's happened in the world. 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.119 We'll be back shortly with more of this inspiring conversation. 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:52.399 H you're listening to my legacy. We're so glad you're 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:53.480 spending part of your day with us. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:58.800 You know, Joe and I know Nina's order shared this 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.119 just a little bit early here. There's such a stigma 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:07.760 around men opening up about mental health. How can we 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:08.880 break that barrier? 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.879 It's a very valid point, Martin, and I can say personally, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.320 even for when you know here I am at ten 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.639 years old, having lost both parents of suicide, trying to 0:18:21.640 --> 0:18:27.280 figure out the world and navigate that. It took me 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:32.520 in many decades to feel comfortable to open up. And 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:36.800 I now looking back, you know see that I needed 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.560 those safe places like a season center, like these different 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:46.520 places that exist today. I also feel grateful to Bill 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.639 and now openly talk about it. But that took me 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.280 a long time. Took me to be in a very 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.359 safe place. I have an incredible wife, two daughter's incredible friend. 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.320 I'm in a very safe place and comfortable to do 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.119 that now on an open platform. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.960 So I think that we can just start small, right. 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:05.280 It can just be like one to one with a 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.919 friend for men to I think we just need to 0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:12.679 get over this idea, and honestly, I think we need 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:17.240 to learn from women how incredible powerful it is to cry. 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.120 I cry in front of my daughters when I've had 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.280 family members or friends pass away. I'm not going to 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.880 just lock myself away or lock those feelings away. I'm 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:30.000 going to express them. And man is at every therapeutic 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:35.560 So I think that to stop like repressing and slowly 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.240 let it be because actually it's not weakness, it's incredible 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.440 strength to be able to do that. So's the that's 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.600 the remix. That's a flip that we need to change 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:45.320 in our society. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:49.840 What is the one thing you wish more men understood 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.080 about their mental health and emotional well being? 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.040 I would say that without it, we don't have much. 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.879 Like we can put a lot of effort going to 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:02.240 the gym, we can put a lot of effort into 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:05.960 our physical appearance, our mental health is just as important, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:09.840 if not more important. And so you know, I kind 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:12.320 of look at it like I go annually to do 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.600 a physical I get checked in my mid forties now, 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:18.520 so the other extra things we're getting checked. 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:20.520 For that should be the same for mental health. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.760 It shouldn't feel like we're at a you know, a 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.840 scale of nine to ten of a crisis. 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.080 No, it's ongoing maintenance. 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.719 We all, just society, especially men should be going to 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:32.520 talk to someone. 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.040 And that could be different, right, depending on the specialist 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:36.760 or whatnot. 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.000 But I think that getting over that fear of sharing 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.240 is critical. So I think that making it more common, 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:50.240 removing that stigma around sharing and getting help should be regular. 0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:55.240 It's also on the men receiving the messages, to receive 0:20:55.320 --> 0:21:00.920 it without judgment, without shame, with love. That's a really 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.920 important piece as well, to just feel that's where the safe, 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.919 psychologically safe space comes from, and we want men to 0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:10.200 feel that in the presence of men. 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:13.200 Something you and I have talked about is the fact 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:16.440 that trauma gets stuck in your nervous systems. Trauma gets 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:21.639 stuck in your fascil system, in your fascia. At the 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.520 end of the day, we have to get that trauma 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.280 out of our bodies. How do we do that? How 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:26.399 do we let that shit go? 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.480 I think with trauma we have to look at in 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.679 the face. We have to peel it back and we 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.720 have to unpack it. And it doesn't feel good. And 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:37.640 you know, you go through those those of you who 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:38.359 have been in therapy. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.919 No, sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. 0:21:42.320 --> 0:21:46.280 So I think with trauma, you know, the acknowledgment and 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.919 getting the help. And I unfortunately, as incredible as my 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.560 mom was, and I'll forever put around a pedestal for 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:53.679 the person that she was. 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:56.040 Sometimes I believe she. 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:01.440 Was diagnosed with als because you know, she never actually 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.199 cried about my brother. She was, you know, she was 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.080 eternally happy. But there's a bit of toxic positivity. There 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.639 was a bit of spiritual bypassing. They call it, you know, 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:17.439 good vibes only. It's not like that. Life is not 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.200 good vibes only. We can't always be good vibes only. 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:24.520 So just being brutally honest with where we are and 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.160 kind of parallel pathing your life. You got to live, 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.160 You got to move forward. That's something the Season Center 0:22:29.200 --> 0:22:31.040 taught me. You know, you got to pick up. No 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:32.679 one's going to pick up the pieces for you. You 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:34.360 got to do it and you got to move forward. 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:38.440 But the healing part also picking up, you know, the 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.280 trauma and the pieces that are, yeah, left inside of 0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:44.560 you because until you bring them. We have a saying 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:46.359 in the book, you can't let that shit go unless 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.240 you bring that shit to surface. And that's what you 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:51.399 need to do with the traumas, bring into surface and 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:52.399 move through it. 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:55.960 But the fact, in the Western medicine context, so many 0:22:56.000 --> 0:23:00.159 times we've separated out physical health and mental health, and 0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:03.520 just what a crime to humanity that is, in my opinion, 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:05.719 because so many of the challenges that we see in 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.840 this world, and so many the disconnection stems from ourselves 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.600 because we have that physical disconnection from our spiritual disconnection. 0:23:12.960 --> 0:23:15.520 And you and I've had these conversations about this, and 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.720 you keep your spiritual health very much at the forefront. 0:23:19.760 --> 0:23:25.479 You clean and cleanse your spiritual engagement on an ongoing 0:23:25.480 --> 0:23:27.800 basis because the work you do, which is Martin does 0:23:27.840 --> 0:23:30.440 this is so hard and so challenging. 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:33.920 You know, I worked for many years monitoring the klu 0:23:33.960 --> 0:23:37.360 Klux Klan and Neil Nazis and skin hits. And when 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:39.960 I did that work, I had a picture on my 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:42.000 wall to quote by Bill Hooks this say we must 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:44.320 never become like that which we're fighting against. 0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:48.720 It was one of my north stars. And I feel that. 0:23:48.680 --> 0:23:51.320 In order to show up fully in love that we 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.520 are talking about, we have to first put on that 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:59.760 within ourselves even before we leave our home. You know, 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.439 has to be a continual process. It's a continual commitment 0:24:03.880 --> 0:24:09.359 for me in how we go about just living our lives. 0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:12.440