1 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Before we left the house, my brother said, can I 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: come with you? And we said no, it's fine, it'll 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: be fine. And I still remember he was standing on 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: the upstairs banister and he said, can I get a 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 1: pair of Jean's mom And she goes sure, and you know, 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: we left the house and that was the last. 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 2: Time I. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 3: Saw him, and I just. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 4: Felt horrible about being the sibling that got to survive. 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't save him. 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: I felt like I failed him. 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 5: Welcome to my Legacy. Before we begin today's episode, we 13 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 5: want to let our listeners and viewers know that we 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 5: will be discussing issues related to violence, suicide, and mental health. 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 5: Some of the topics may be distressing. If you or 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 5: someone you know is struggling, we encourage you to seek 17 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 5: professional support. Resources like the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline dial 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:17,199 Speaker 5: nine eight eight or the crisis text hotline text home 19 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 5: to seven four one seven four one are available twenty 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 5: four to seven. Please know that this conversation is for 21 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 5: information purposes only and does not constitute medical advice. Your 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 5: well being is critically important. Please listen at your own pace, 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 5: and please don't hesitate to take breaks or skip ahead 24 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 5: of needed today, we have the privilege of sitting down 25 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 5: with Nina Purewall, the international best selling author of Let 26 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 5: That Shit Go. Nina's journey is one of extraordinary resilience, 27 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 5: from profound loss to profound healing. She has taken life's 28 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 5: hardest moments and turned them into a legacy of helping others. Now, 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 5: what makes our conversations on my legacy unexpected and unique 30 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 5: is that we don't just hear from extraordinary individuals. We 31 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 5: hear from the people who know them best, those who 32 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 5: have walked alongside them in their journey. Nina, thanks so 33 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 5: much for joining us, and can you introduce us to 34 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 5: your plus one? 35 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much for having us on. We 36 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: are completely honored to be here, and I would like 37 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: to introduce my plus one. This is Joe lions Rising. 38 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: Joe and I have been good friends for over twenty years. 39 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: We started out working together in data analytics, so we're 40 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: both data geeks at heart. We have been on the 41 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: journey together of going from corporate to social enterprise. 42 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: We're both authors, and we. 43 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 1: Are very passionate about mental health and wellness. Joe has 44 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 1: a company that he founded called Data Gives Back, where 45 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: he donates over twenty five percent of his earnings to 46 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 1: an incredible organization call The Season Center for Grieving Children. 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 1: But my intention of the plus one was to bring 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: Joe on because he has an incredible story to tell 49 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: and I want him to share his platform with everybody. 50 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 6: Benina, sincerely, we love you. We are inspired by your story. 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 6: We're inspired by your determination. We're inspired by who you are, 52 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 6: by what you've overcome, by what you put out in 53 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 6: the world. And Joe, it's just awesome to have you here. 54 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 7: Nina, you faced a devastating loss as a teenager. In 55 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,959 Speaker 7: a real sense for me, I also faced a devastating 56 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 7: loss of a father at a very early age, but 57 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 7: one certainly that shaped the rest of your life. Can 58 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 7: you share what you experienced and how years later you 59 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 7: were able to choose forgiveness. 60 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: I can see you and hear you and empathize with 61 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: being a child and traumatically losing a parent. And this 62 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: is why Joe and I are also good friends, because 63 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: Joe has gone through childhood trauma as well, and we've 64 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: been each other's great buddies throughout, which. 65 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: Is so important. 66 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: At sixteen, my parents were going through a pretty tumultuous 67 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: separation Actually, my mom wanted to leave my dad after 68 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: twenty two years of started what started out as physical 69 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: abuse and then you know a lot of psychological verbal abuse. 70 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: And she kind of made a promise to herself when 71 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 1: my brother was born that you know, when my son 72 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: turns ten, if this behavior continues, I'm leaving. And sure 73 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: enough he turned ten, and she said, I can't do 74 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: this anymore. This is nineteen ninety six, and so she 75 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: served my dad with with divorce papers in December of 76 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: ninety six, and it was six months of a lot 77 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: of uncertainty, a lot of questionable behavior from my dad, 78 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: a lot of inconsistency, and that culminated in him in 79 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: May of nineteen ninety seven taking his own life life 80 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: and also taking my brothers as well. And you know 81 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: his it was premeditated and his plan was to take 82 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: mine too. He obviously wanted revenge and wanted to get 83 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: back at my mom and take you know, her kids 84 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: and himself, and he burnt the house down. I did 85 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: see the crime scene after the bodies were taken out. 86 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: It was very intense, and in that moment I really 87 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: had had nowhere to go. It was the nineties and 88 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: nobody was talking about mental health. 89 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 2: No one was talking. 90 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: About really you were either in the psychiatric ward in 91 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: the hospital or you were quote unquote normal. And I 92 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: did a lot of reflecting, and this is why I'm 93 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: so passionate about mental health and specifically men and mental 94 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: health is I always think back to if my dad 95 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,559 Speaker 1: had had the support that people have now with things 96 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: have still gone that way. So I am just so 97 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: grateful and lucky every single day to be here and 98 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: to be alive. 99 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 2: Many years later. 100 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I couldn't even grieve my brother in the 101 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: beginning because I was so furious and angry with my dad. 102 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: I had PTSD, I had survivor's guilt, and then I 103 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: kind of numbed my pain and I repressed it, which 104 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend for anyone. But I went and got 105 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: my business degree. I had a great career in sales 106 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: and marketing. I was thriving and living life, and then 107 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:42,479 Speaker 1: my mom passed away and everything hit me all over again, 108 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: the loss, the grief. 109 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: And suddenly I had this epiphany moment that. 110 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 1: I am holding on to all of this anger and 111 00:06:54,920 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: resentment about what my dad did, and he's dead and gone, 112 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: so it's not impacting him anymore. 113 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 2: Who was it impacting It's impacting me. 114 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: And it was that moment that I realized my way 115 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: out of this was forgiveness, not for him not to 116 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: right his wrong, because when we forgive, we don't have 117 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: to write wrongs, we don't have to make up, we 118 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: don't have to be in a beautiful it's not a 119 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: beautiful romantic period piece where you're I'm sorry, I'm sorry, 120 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: I love you, I love you. It can be you 121 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: can forgive someone who's no longer here. You can forgive 122 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: someone who you don't want in your life anymore. And 123 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: that's what I did. I went on a two year 124 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: journey to forgive him, because forgiveness is freedom for you. 125 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: You are letting go of the resentment, you are letting 126 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: go of the anger. And it's incredible what transpired in 127 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,679 Speaker 1: my life after I went through that journey. 128 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 6: Nina, before we get to that stage, I want to 129 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 6: go back, because you and I have had extensive conversations 130 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 6: on this, and I just want to say, on behalf 131 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 6: of all of us. I'm getting choked up here just 132 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 6: how sorry we are for the loss and the tragic 133 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 6: nature of that loss. And I know you now look 134 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 6: at that loss in a different way because because you 135 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 6: also said something very powerful in so much that you 136 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 6: had survived your's guild because you survived. 137 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: You know, before we left the house and my brother 138 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: said can I come with you? 139 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 2: And we said no, it's fine, It'll be fine. 140 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: And I still remember he was standing on the upstairs 141 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: banister and he said, can I get a par of 142 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: Jean's mom? And she goes sure, and you know, we 143 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: left the house and that was. 144 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 2: The last time I. 145 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: Saw him, and I just. 146 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: Felt horrible about being the sibling that got to survive. 147 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: I felt like I couldn't save him. 148 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: I felt like I failed him. 149 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: I mean, those last few moments played over and over 150 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: and over again in my head. I just did twenty 151 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: weeks of trauma healing a few years ago to address 152 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: the crime scene. 153 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: But survivor's guilt is real. 154 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: You feel terrible for living every day when the person 155 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: or someone you love so much didn't get the same opportunity. 156 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 8: And what is your advice? Because I'm sure that a 157 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 8: lot of our listeners are experiencing that more than any 158 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 8: of us even realize, and they may feel the same way, 159 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 8: trapped and alone and feeling that survivor's guilt. 160 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing I always say, now you know, working. 161 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: In mental health, is to feel those feelings, to feel 162 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: the emotion. It's okay, it's healthy. But then you get 163 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: to a point where you they they don't want you 164 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: to feel that way that have passed. 165 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: When I think. 166 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: About what my brother would have wanted, or when I 167 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: think about if the. 168 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: Roles were reversed, you wouldn't want me. 169 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: They don't want you to live the rest of your 170 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: life wondering why or feeling terrible that. 171 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: They were in this situation. 172 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: They're they're in the light, They're they're happy, they're angels, 173 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: they're looking down. You know, they're not suffering. And I 174 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: think that was that was a big aha for me, 175 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: is he's he's happy, and he's happy for me, and 176 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: I feel him too, and you. 177 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 2: Know he's moved on and he's free. 178 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: We all struggled in that house growing up, and you 179 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: know he's he's free. 180 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 2: And so my. 181 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: Advice would be to feel the fuels, to acknowledge you 182 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: know where they are now, and then to also surround yourself, 183 00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: thirdly with people who who understand and to work through it. 184 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: And I came across this organization called the Season Center 185 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: for Grieving Children, which Joe donates back to, and you 186 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: know where we are executive grief ambassadors now and that 187 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: honestly saved my life. The peer to peer support, and 188 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: I highly recommend that if you're going through loss, you're 189 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: going through tragedy or trauma, is to talk to people 190 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: who are. 191 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 2: Going through something similar. And I was finally in. 192 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: A room where teens had gone through very traumatic loss 193 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:35,959 Speaker 1: and at sixteen, I mean, it's been so many years now, 194 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: I still remember everybody's story and finally I felt at home. 195 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 1: I felt I didn't feel misunderstood. I felt like everybody 196 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: got what I was going through. But if you really 197 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: do feel stuck, to get the help, because I have 198 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: had many I still have therapists, grief counselors, psychologists helped 199 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: me go through this thing called life that we are 200 00:11:58,880 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: all trying to navigate. 201 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 5: Nina, thank you for sharing that with us. And the 202 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 5: candor is besides, perhaps Martin, none of us can understand fully, 203 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 5: but perhaps Joe, I know you also bring And I 204 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 5: asked Nina why she invited you, and part of what 205 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 5: she spoke about your incredible ambassadorship and also the fact 206 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 5: that you have this unique bond that you and your 207 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 5: youth experienced also this profound trauma, and would you share 208 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 5: it with us so that people out there listening know 209 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:34,679 Speaker 5: that they're also not alone, that others have experienced that journey, 210 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 5: and especially if you can share with us some of 211 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 5: the journey of healing. 212 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely. 213 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 10: Nina and I, now you know, on our forties, we 214 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 10: joke we're grief buddies. I do think the universe brought 215 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 10: us together. Even though we met twenty years ago, we 216 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 10: continued to be on this grief journey and it kind of. 217 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 9: Gets stronger year by year. 218 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 10: But yeah, I did go through significant loss as a 219 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 10: child in the nineteen eighties. I lost my dad to 220 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 10: suicide when I was six years old. He had struggled 221 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 10: with bipolar and depression. And then a couple years later, 222 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 10: my mom was diagnosed with multiple scrosis and unfortunately she 223 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 10: used succumb to depression herself, and she died by suicide 224 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 10: when I was ten. And you know, Nina and I 225 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 10: didn't know that the first time we met, when we 226 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 10: were doing market research and analytics, right, the first thing 227 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 10: you say to each other when you're starting a new 228 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 10: company are working, but I think it was at a 229 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 10: house party you had had or something we had had, 230 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 10: and somehow we started talking about this and it was 231 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 10: like this instant magnetic force, like I have no idea 232 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 10: what you went through, she doesn't know what I went through, 233 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 10: but we can like incredibly empathize with each other. And 234 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 10: that's been our connection and friendship. And it's been this 235 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 10: journey since then. 236 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why I'm so passionate about 237 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 1: Joe sharing his story is because, as I said earlier, 238 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: men in mental health. 239 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: Is critically important. 240 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: I have done so much research and just lived experience 241 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: obviously of you know what happens when and traditionally, I 242 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: know I'm generalizing here, but people who identify as men 243 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: tend to not talk about their emotions as much and 244 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: not go there. Women have a more supportive kind of network, 245 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: and it's okay to meet up with a girlfriend and 246 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: cry the whole time, and you know, it's just not 247 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: as available for men. And so I really respect to 248 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: Joe for creating that space. And his book does talk 249 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: about grief and trauma and depression and anxiety, and I 250 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: think it's important that we acknowledge. 251 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 9: What we're going through well, Martin. 252 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 5: I admire how you've been so open from a young 253 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 5: age to encourage men to share their stories, and how 254 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 5: you've done it so powerfully and so brilliantly. 255 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 7: I wish our nation had addressed mental health thirty plus 256 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 7: years ago, but I'm grateful that we as a society 257 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 7: are working in that vein today. And I'm grateful for 258 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 7: you sharing your story with our audience. And we don't 259 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 7: know what kind of just the fact that you're able 260 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 7: to share is healing. You're putting out healing energy into 261 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 7: the universe, and you know it is vitally needed throughout 262 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 7: our nation and our world for our society to become 263 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 7: a better place and maybe for a sick society to 264 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 7: provide some medicine for itself. 265 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 8: And one of the things also that you both when 266 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 8: you talk about forgiveness, I want to just also highlight 267 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 8: what doctor King said about forgiveness, because one of the 268 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 8: ways in which the civil rights movement and that they 269 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 8: were able to continue on after your house is bombed, 270 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 8: after you know, dogs are being sick on you after 271 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 8: is that what that he he said is that you 272 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 8: separate the evil. 273 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 11: Act from the individual. 274 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 8: That is also a way to forgive, because Nina, you're 275 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 8: talking about you don't. You don't necess you don't forget, 276 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 8: but you are able to and you don't say that 277 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 8: what happened is okay. But what one thing that he 278 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 8: taught is that we separate the act from the individual. 279 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 2: I love that. 280 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: That's so powerful, and I love that you both talk 281 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: about love so much. And if we live from that place, 282 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: I mean, we've seen the magic that's happened in the world. 283 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 5: We'll be back shortly with more of this inspiring conversation. 284 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 5: H you're listening to my legacy. We're so glad you're 285 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 5: spending part of your day with us. 286 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 7: You know, Joe and I know Nina's order shared this 287 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 7: just a little bit early here. There's such a stigma 288 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 7: around men opening up about mental health. How can we 289 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:08,880 Speaker 7: break that barrier? 290 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 10: It's a very valid point, Martin, and I can say personally, 291 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 10: even for when you know here I am at ten 292 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 10: years old, having lost both parents of suicide, trying to 293 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 10: figure out the world and navigate that. It took me 294 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 10: in many decades to feel comfortable to open up. And 295 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 10: I now looking back, you know see that I needed 296 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 10: those safe places like a season center, like these different 297 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 10: places that exist today. I also feel grateful to Bill 298 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 10: and now openly talk about it. But that took me 299 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 10: a long time. Took me to be in a very 300 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 10: safe place. I have an incredible wife, two daughter's incredible friend. 301 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 10: I'm in a very safe place and comfortable to do 302 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 10: that now on an open platform. 303 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 9: So I think that we can just start small, right. 304 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 10: It can just be like one to one with a 305 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 10: friend for men to I think we just need to 306 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,679 Speaker 10: get over this idea, and honestly, I think we need 307 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 10: to learn from women how incredible powerful it is to cry. 308 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,120 Speaker 10: I cry in front of my daughters when I've had 309 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 10: family members or friends pass away. I'm not going to 310 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,880 Speaker 10: just lock myself away or lock those feelings away. I'm 311 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 10: going to express them. And man is at every therapeutic 312 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 10: So I think that to stop like repressing and slowly 313 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 10: let it be because actually it's not weakness, it's incredible 314 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 10: strength to be able to do that. So's the that's 315 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 10: the remix. That's a flip that we need to change 316 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 10: in our society. 317 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 7: What is the one thing you wish more men understood 318 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 7: about their mental health and emotional well being? 319 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 9: I would say that without it, we don't have much. 320 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 10: Like we can put a lot of effort going to 321 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 10: the gym, we can put a lot of effort into 322 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 10: our physical appearance, our mental health is just as important, 323 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 10: if not more important. And so you know, I kind 324 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 10: of look at it like I go annually to do 325 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 10: a physical I get checked in my mid forties now, 326 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 10: so the other extra things we're getting checked. 327 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 9: For that should be the same for mental health. 328 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 10: It shouldn't feel like we're at a you know, a 329 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 10: scale of nine to ten of a crisis. 330 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 9: No, it's ongoing maintenance. 331 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,719 Speaker 10: We all, just society, especially men should be going to 332 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 10: talk to someone. 333 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 9: And that could be different, right, depending on the specialist 334 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 9: or whatnot. 335 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 10: But I think that getting over that fear of sharing 336 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 10: is critical. So I think that making it more common, 337 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 10: removing that stigma around sharing and getting help should be regular. 338 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: It's also on the men receiving the messages, to receive 339 00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: it without judgment, without shame, with love. That's a really 340 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: important piece as well, to just feel that's where the safe, 341 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: psychologically safe space comes from, and we want men to 342 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: feel that in the presence of men. 343 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 6: Something you and I have talked about is the fact 344 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 6: that trauma gets stuck in your nervous systems. Trauma gets 345 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 6: stuck in your fascil system, in your fascia. At the 346 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 6: end of the day, we have to get that trauma 347 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 6: out of our bodies. How do we do that? How 348 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 6: do we let that shit go? 349 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: I think with trauma we have to look at in 350 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: the face. We have to peel it back and we 351 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: have to unpack it. And it doesn't feel good. And 352 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, you go through those those of you who 353 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: have been in therapy. 354 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 2: No, sometimes it gets worse before it gets better. 355 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: So I think with trauma, you know, the acknowledgment and 356 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: getting the help. And I unfortunately, as incredible as my 357 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: mom was, and I'll forever put around a pedestal for 358 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:53,679 Speaker 1: the person that she was. 359 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes I believe she. 360 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: Was diagnosed with als because you know, she never actually 361 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 1: cried about my brother. She was, you know, she was 362 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: eternally happy. But there's a bit of toxic positivity. There 363 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: was a bit of spiritual bypassing. They call it, you know, 364 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: good vibes only. It's not like that. Life is not 365 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: good vibes only. We can't always be good vibes only. 366 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: So just being brutally honest with where we are and 367 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 1: kind of parallel pathing your life. You got to live, 368 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 1: You got to move forward. That's something the Season Center 369 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: taught me. You know, you got to pick up. No 370 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: one's going to pick up the pieces for you. You 371 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: got to do it and you got to move forward. 372 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: But the healing part also picking up, you know, the 373 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: trauma and the pieces that are, yeah, left inside of 374 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: you because until you bring them. We have a saying 375 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: in the book, you can't let that shit go unless 376 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: you bring that shit to surface. And that's what you 377 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: need to do with the traumas, bring into surface and 378 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: move through it. 379 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 6: But the fact, in the Western medicine context, so many 380 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 6: times we've separated out physical health and mental health, and 381 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 6: just what a crime to humanity that is, in my opinion, 382 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 6: because so many of the challenges that we see in 383 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 6: this world, and so many the disconnection stems from ourselves 384 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 6: because we have that physical disconnection from our spiritual disconnection. 385 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 6: And you and I've had these conversations about this, and 386 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 6: you keep your spiritual health very much at the forefront. 387 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 6: You clean and cleanse your spiritual engagement on an ongoing 388 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 6: basis because the work you do, which is Martin does 389 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:30,440 Speaker 6: this is so hard and so challenging. 390 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 8: You know, I worked for many years monitoring the klu 391 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 8: Klux Klan and Neil Nazis and skin hits. And when 392 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 8: I did that work, I had a picture on my 393 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 8: wall to quote by Bill Hooks this say we must 394 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 8: never become like that which we're fighting against. 395 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 11: It was one of my north stars. And I feel that. 396 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 8: In order to show up fully in love that we 397 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 8: are talking about, we have to first put on that 398 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 8: within ourselves even before we leave our home. You know, 399 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,439 Speaker 8: has to be a continual process. It's a continual commitment 400 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 8: for me in how we go about just living our lives. 401 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 5: And Joe, this is such a powerful conversation, and I 402 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 5: know that some of our listeners will be both inspired 403 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 5: and to say what is the truth? Some will be triggered, 404 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 5: and some it was going to bring forth some of 405 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 5: the trauma and some of what people have repressed themselves. 406 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 5: And so for those individuals who are looking for help, 407 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 5: we will have in our show notes, both on the 408 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 5: app and on the video resources that are available from 409 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 5: your own books of course, the two of you to 410 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 5: the organizations that can be available for those who are 411 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 5: looking for help. I'd be reminiscent, and to just quickly 412 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 5: point out, in addition to the great resources of our 413 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 5: incredible authors who are with us here today, the Body 414 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 5: keep Score, of course, one of the seminal works about 415 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 5: the physical connection on trauma, you know, being married to 416 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 5: a psychologist, I'm going to put out some of the 417 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 5: great things that you know, whether it's the Hoffman process, 418 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 5: looking at some of the childhood trauma, you know, Nina 419 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 5: Joyce you nodding your head, some of the great work 420 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 5: that they do, cognitive behavioral therapy for people who are 421 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 5: looking for help, seeing some of the great trauma supports 422 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 5: out there. And I know, Andrea, there's something really important 423 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 5: that you want to share. 424 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 8: And I think it's also important for us all to 425 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 8: highlight too that these resources will also include free resources, 426 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 8: because we understand that everyone you know may not can 427 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 8: afford some you know, their different you know, modalities or 428 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 8: different ways to address all of this. But what we 429 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 8: firmly believe is that that should not be a barrier 430 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 8: to mental health. So we really want to make sure 431 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,880 Speaker 8: that our listeners know that they are free resources that 432 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 8: they could also look into that will be listed as resources. 433 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 6: You know, when it ask to you One of the 434 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 6: people that you and I have spoken about extensively is 435 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 6: doctor Gobor Matte, of course, somebody who is one of 436 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 6: the world's leading experts on trauma. You've read his books. 437 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 6: What have you learned from doctor Gobor Mate. 438 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: I don't think we understand as a society what trauma. 439 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: We're just starting to understand what it means and all 440 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: the types of trauma that's out there. 441 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: The way that he acknowledges whether it's trauma as. 442 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: A society, or whether it's trauma as women, or whether 443 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: it's you know, trauma we keep in our body. 444 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 2: Follow him on Instagram, follow him on socials. 445 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: He is constantly posting about, you know, the podcast interviews 446 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: he's doing, or little segments of his keynotes, and he 447 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: has really taught me. 448 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: About really what trauma is, because. 449 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 1: I think everybody's gone through trauma to some degree, so 450 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: understanding and acknowledging whether it's you know, when you were 451 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: a child and how you were raised, or you know, 452 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 1: in a relationship, the kinds of trauma that shows up, 453 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: or as a child as a parent. 454 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 2: So he has really brought a lot of rigor to. 455 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: The definition of trauma, and I think identif find what 456 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 1: it is. 457 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,360 Speaker 2: And it was really hard for me to move on. 458 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: I felt like I was walking the halls as the 459 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: murder suicide girl. 460 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: I couldn't sit through a class. 461 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: I went from a straight A student to not being 462 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: able to focus. And if you've read Oprah and doctor 463 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: Bruce Perry's book on What Happened to You, you will 464 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: understand that trauma impacts the brain. I just thought I 465 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: was dumb all of a sudden, and so to have 466 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: that validation of you know, actually your brain doesn't function 467 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: as it used to, it was very frustrating. 468 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 2: I couldn't focus, I couldn't retain anything. I couldn't do 469 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 2: well in school. 470 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 11: I was going to highlight too. 471 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 8: How it also provides that understanding also leads to healing 472 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 8: in our world. One of the things that I'm fascinated 473 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 8: by is, you know, I remember a study. There's a 474 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 8: group that worked in Boston that looked at the impact 475 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 8: that poverty has on young people's brains. To your point, 476 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 8: I think, Nina, I think you said it earlier. When 477 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 8: you go through trauma, it literally impacts your brain, and 478 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 8: they are now finding this with science. And so then 479 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 8: when you say traditional things like okay, well, in order 480 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 8: to you know, get out of poverty. 481 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 11: You know, you write your goals, you do. 482 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 8: That, but those things, if you're not addressing the physically, 483 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 8: what's even happening in someone's brain, or understanding that that brain, 484 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 8: their different parts that are wired differently because of the trauma. 485 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 11: Even that will help not only. 486 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 8: Individuals, but that understanding and will also I think bring 487 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 8: a sense of healing to a lot of the things 488 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 8: that we see in the world. 489 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I had a pivotal moment with a university professor 490 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: a few years ago. She wanted to do a fireside 491 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 1: chat on mental health. 492 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: And I was shocked. 493 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: Because I'm going to be honest here and say, I 494 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: know you're all scholars, But after I barely kind of 495 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: I grazed through my degree and I thought, what does 496 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: a university professor want to do, you know, talking to me? 497 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: And I had told her, you know, when I was 498 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 2: in university, it was a few years after the. 499 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: Incident, and I would sit through lecture and leave and 500 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: have no idea what the lecture was about. And you know, 501 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 1: I did some testing after and how it affected my memory. 502 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 2: Just so much of your brain. 503 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: Is focused on that, and you know, we had this 504 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: zoom call before the chat, you know, this was years later, 505 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: and she looked at me through the screen and said, 506 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: the fact that you got out of bed and you 507 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: put your clothes on, and you got your backpack ready 508 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: and you showed up to class is an absolute miracle. 509 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 1: And it was such a validating moment for me. And 510 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: I want everybody to acknowledge who's gone through trauma. It's 511 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: okay if you're not operating with hiring all cylinders and 512 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 1: crazy career and God, it's okay that you have gone 513 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,480 Speaker 1: through things and you're not functioning as maybe you were. 514 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 2: Give yourself grace and compassion for that. Can I ask 515 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: a question to Andrea and Martin. 516 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: You have seen so much trauma, you've experienced it, you know, 517 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: with with racism or even patriarchy with women. What inside 518 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: of you keeps you going to fight this fight with love? 519 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 2: So? 520 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 7: You know, as a as a child, it was seeing 521 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,800 Speaker 7: you know, love and action through my father, my mother, 522 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 7: my grandfather as a pastor, you know, my aunts and uncles, 523 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 7: and it was fortunately the environment for me. I don't 524 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 7: know how I would have been had I not been 525 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 7: exposed to this method to navigate through so much change, 526 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 7: but it was a physical example of what Dad did 527 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 7: and what Mom did many years after after Dad. So 528 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 7: if it didn't have examples, I said, I can't say 529 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 7: that I would have maintain and sustained hope. But it 530 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 7: was reinforcing situations and experiences and understand that you know, 531 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 7: you can never give up. You have to always and 532 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 7: really it sort of a decision. It's an intention. The 533 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 7: intention is and no matter what happens every day, we 534 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 7: have to intend to deposit positiveness within the world. So 535 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 7: that's just who I chosen to be, and it reinforces itself. 536 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,960 Speaker 7: It's like what you all are sharing today on this podcast. 537 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 7: I can't imagine how many people are going to be 538 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 7: helped because you chose to show up and show up 539 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 7: in a way that is helpful to what someone is 540 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 7: going through right this moment. 541 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 8: For me, it was I talked about earlier having that 542 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 8: quote and being mindful that of who I am being 543 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 8: and showing up in the world and that we will 544 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:40,640 Speaker 8: never eliminate hate or fear by bringing more of that 545 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 8: into the world. And one of the things that I've 546 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 8: been leaning on more and more is that quote of 547 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 8: Gandhi when he says that when he despairs. 548 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 11: He thinks about. 549 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 8: That throughout history looks like tyranny and murderers would prevail, 550 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,959 Speaker 8: But when you really think about it, the way of 551 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:08,719 Speaker 8: love and truth and beauty has always prevailed over those things. 552 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 8: We say a lot that, you know, the movement for humanity, 553 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 8: the civil rights movement, is a movement of faith. It 554 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 8: always looked impossible until it was done. And so that 555 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 8: remembrance of it, that the fact that I understand that 556 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 8: it is all of us, this is our time, and 557 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 8: that collective long march in humanity. And what am I 558 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,600 Speaker 8: going to do with my time? Am I going to 559 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 8: feed the flames of more fear and division and chaos? 560 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 8: Or am I going to feed the flames of peace 561 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 8: and justice and love? Am I going to feed the 562 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 8: flames of Martin? Luther King Junior credits Scott King and 563 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 8: Gandhi and Mother Teresa and Nelson Mandela and also remembering 564 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 8: as a woman, remembering my. 565 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 11: Power, our power. 566 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 8: I think sometimes we look around and we feel powerless 567 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 8: when the reality is that we're powerful, and and you know, 568 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,359 Speaker 8: and to follow up on that, Nina, you know, we've 569 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 8: talked a lot, and I'm so glad that we've had 570 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 8: the conversation about men's mental health because it's incredibly important. 571 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 8: But I do want to ask on the other side 572 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 8: that you know, women, as women are often expected to 573 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 8: carry the emotional labor and their relationships and in families, 574 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,320 Speaker 8: So how do you navigate that balance between supporting others 575 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 8: but also protecting your own well being, your own mental health. 576 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 2: I make the time for it. 577 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: I schedule time for self love and self care. And 578 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 1: I also say that self love starts up here. We 579 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 1: can go to all the spot a's, or spend time 580 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: on the golf burs or be with girlfriends, but how 581 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: are we talking to ourself? 582 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: How is that import in there? 583 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,800 Speaker 1: What is it saying so constantly being aware of what's 584 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 1: going on up here? And you know you talked about 585 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: going to the gym, and we can't stop that mental. 586 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 2: Health awareness because we go to the gym for. 587 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: Six months and we get the six pack, and it 588 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: doesn't stay if we stop going. 589 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: So in the same way, constantly. 590 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: Checking in and even budgeting a little bit for self 591 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: love and well being and mental health. 592 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 2: And it's not something I. 593 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: Realized I needed to do till very recently, till really 594 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,720 Speaker 1: writing about it, I thought I got to start walking 595 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: the walk, and it is so important for women in 596 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: today's world because we tend to constantly feel guilty when 597 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: we take time out for ourselves to in fact do that, 598 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: because then we can serve the world that much. 599 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 2: That are you know, if. 600 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: Our cup is not full, our love is going to 601 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: come from a place of exhaustion, of expectation, of obligation. 602 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: So we want to fill our cup and we want 603 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: our love to come from the cup. 604 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 11: Runneth over the overflow, overflow. I love it, and so 605 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 11: do you have. 606 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 8: Is there a particular boundary that you've had to that 607 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 8: you established in your own personal life to protect yourself 608 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 8: and your mental health? 609 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 2: Meditation. 610 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: Meditation is really my self care and it's the way 611 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: for me to plug in, if you will, to source 612 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 1: to truth to love every day. I can't say I 613 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 1: do it every single day, but it is really like 614 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: brushing my teeth part of my routine. And most recently 615 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: I've said to myself and I'm telling my girlfriends, intentionally 616 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: do something once a month, whether that's you know, a 617 00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: somatic healing session, whether that's a little massage, or whether 618 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: that you know, sacrifice the dinner out or the drinks 619 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: and just have a little budget maybe one hundred bucks 620 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: a month for self care or even you know, like 621 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: I said, wake up and listen to a self care podcast. 622 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: So the boundary is really it's the overall boundary is 623 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: making sure that I'm not depleting and I'm not depleted. 624 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 5: More of this inspiring and powerful conversation after the break. 625 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 11: Now back to my legacy. 626 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 6: You both have daughters, if I'm not mistaken, I've got 627 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,279 Speaker 6: two girls as well, who I just absolutely love in 628 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 6: a door, and I wanted to ask you, having conversations 629 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 6: around mental health with your kids is really hard, and 630 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 6: opening up that space is sometimes also really hard. How 631 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 6: do we do it? How do we embrace this conversation 632 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 6: with young ones and with teenagers? What tips or suggestions 633 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 6: do you guys have. 634 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: I can start with the little because Joe has a 635 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: little and a teenager, so he can speak to the. 636 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 2: Teen tween phase, which I'm terrified for. 637 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: But I think it's just not even sometimes this explicitly 638 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: saying take care of your mental health. 639 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: I think it's because they're. 640 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: Little so acknowledging their emotions, which is something I mean 641 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: I can speak for myself, especially having immigrant parents. 642 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 2: Ever talked about emotions growing up, like it would be. 643 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,360 Speaker 1: Like four hour explosive fight, brother and I hiding in 644 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: the room, and then next morning like when you want 645 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: for breakfast, would you like some cereal old? You know, 646 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: So mental health wasn't even talked about acknowledged. So one 647 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: thing with my daughter is every day when she comes 648 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: from home from school, we talk about it. We talk about, 649 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, was there any bullying incidents? Is what happened? 650 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 1: How did you feel? How do you feel about what's 651 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: going on? Things happening in the family. So holding the 652 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: space and making it a very psychologically safe space for children, 653 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,359 Speaker 1: I think as they're little. And then of course there's 654 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 1: practical applications like you know, mindfulness cards and yoga cards 655 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 1: and having a space in your home where you know, 656 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: the calming center, so to speak. 657 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 2: But I think, you know, to. 658 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:56,240 Speaker 1: Start out as parents, it's really acknowledging their mental health. 659 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: And you know, I read somewhere that kids problems maybe 660 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: may seem small. 661 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 2: To us, but that's their biggest problem for them. 662 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: So if someone stole an a raser and that's their 663 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,399 Speaker 1: biggest problem, and we're saying it's just an eraser, they're 664 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: gonna learn that we're not acknowledging what's going on. 665 00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 2: And so it's really important wherever they're arrived to hold space. 666 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 5: Nina. I love that. I actually want to repeat that 667 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,560 Speaker 5: one more time because as a parent, that really resonated 668 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 5: with me, that idea that even if it seems small, 669 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 5: that's the world of the child that's so important, So 670 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,840 Speaker 5: acknowledging it from that perspective, I love that tangible advice. 671 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 8: One of the things that I've learned as a parent 672 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 8: is that to ask myself, does does she need a 673 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 8: lecture or love? Actually I even do that with my husband. 674 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 11: You know, because sometimes sometimes. 675 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 8: They just want, you know that they just need to 676 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,879 Speaker 8: be loved, to see, to be seen, to be heard. 677 00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:59,160 Speaker 8: There are sometimes that there they need. You know that 678 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 8: there might be you know, there's time for instruction, and 679 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 8: the wisdom is in knowing, you know, you know which 680 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 8: applies when Nina, what is. 681 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 7: One value you want to pass down to your daughter? 682 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,240 Speaker 2: That is such. 683 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: A big question, and I would say for her to 684 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: honor herself, for her to show up authentically every step 685 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: of the way, and to be unapologetic about it, especially 686 00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: growing up as a woman in today's world, is to 687 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: just own who she is, my mom who is no 688 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,839 Speaker 1: longer with us. She passed away ten years ago. This 689 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: year taught me everything about life. I mean, talk about legacy. 690 00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: It's why I do what I do. I share this 691 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,640 Speaker 1: story all the time. As she worked for a big bank. 692 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: She was a bank executive, and she had one more 693 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,839 Speaker 1: year to retire. She had twenty five years of the bank. 694 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: She lived twenty four, one more year to retire, and 695 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: most people would just work that year and say, Okay, 696 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 1: now I'm retired, I'm going to live my life. But 697 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: this one her course came up at the ashram and 698 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: she said, I'm going to take a year sabbatical before 699 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 1: her one last year to retirement. And she did that 700 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: and we came back from the course, and in those 701 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 1: months she started limping around, and before we knew it, 702 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: she was diagnosed with als or lou Garrick's And I 703 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: kept thinking, Thank goodness, she sees the day and did 704 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,840 Speaker 1: what she felt was important in that moment, because otherwise 705 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: her last year of health would have been working for 706 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,520 Speaker 1: the bank. And in the years that she was sick, 707 00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: she had about two years from her diagnosis to her passing. 708 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: People still talk about how she'd be in her wheelchair 709 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,839 Speaker 1: and they'd come over and she would say, how are 710 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: you and what is going on with you? And she 711 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:47,759 Speaker 1: always just thought about others, literally until the day she died. 712 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: And I shared this with you Mark when we were 713 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:55,320 Speaker 1: talking earlier, that she left me birthday cards and letters 714 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,880 Speaker 1: and letters for my daughter before I was even pregnant. 715 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: She didn't even know I was pregnant, and she was 716 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: leaving these letters with a best friend of mine, And 717 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:07,760 Speaker 1: so I have access to her wisdom, you know, beyond 718 00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,480 Speaker 1: her her physical life, and you know, she just she 719 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,000 Speaker 1: made such incredible strides despite the fact that she was ill, 720 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: and really lived to her fullest till her last day. 721 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 8: Nina, I'm just struck because you know, all of our 722 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 8: stories are unique, but it's always so amazing to me 723 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 8: of how much all of so many of us have 724 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 8: in common. For me, my mother passed away five years ago, 725 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,200 Speaker 8: and like your mother, she was just this light. And 726 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:47,839 Speaker 8: you know, I know from personal experience how complex that 727 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:52,080 Speaker 8: situation is. You know, mother and daughter as your parent 728 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 8: is transitioning, you know, going from being a caretaker to 729 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 8: just you know, preparing yourself, trying to prepare your your 730 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 8: your children. I think for me, you know, we were 731 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 8: I was in the room and my mom took her 732 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 8: last breath, and there was something so powerful to be 733 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,439 Speaker 8: with this magnificent human that gave birth to me at 734 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:24,560 Speaker 8: the time that she was exiting this world. Is there 735 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,920 Speaker 8: anything in particular that you feel would be helpful to 736 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,960 Speaker 8: any of our listeners who right now it's going on 737 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 8: that path of apparent transition. 738 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing that. It's a beautiful story. And 739 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,400 Speaker 1: I too was there when she took her last breath, 740 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,279 Speaker 1: and it is quite a moment when the person who 741 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: brought you into this world is leaving this world. 742 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:53,240 Speaker 2: It's really full circle. And I would say the biggest. 743 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: Thing I've learned is that they're actually not gone there 744 00:44:58,360 --> 00:44:58,839 Speaker 1: very much. 745 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 2: And I'm sure you've experience this too, Andrea. They're here, 746 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 2: they're just not in physical form. 747 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 1: But I would say, you know their essence, their spirit 748 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:13,600 Speaker 1: becomes you. 749 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,280 Speaker 2: They're so much of your heart. 750 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: And practically, I'd say there's some tough conversations to have 751 00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,399 Speaker 1: as a parent is transitioning. And one thing my mom 752 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: and I learned was, let's not make this last year 753 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,320 Speaker 1: just about those tough conversations about wheelchairs and medication and 754 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,920 Speaker 1: what you need to do, you know, every month, and 755 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,920 Speaker 1: the hospitals, and let's make sure we're still talking about life, 756 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: and we're still talking about love and spirituality and the 757 00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:42,160 Speaker 1: meaning of life. 758 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 2: And as she transitioned. 759 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,759 Speaker 1: Now it's been ten years, I still till this day 760 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: get little signs from her all the time, and it's 761 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 1: like I'm talking to her. I'm like, yes, Mom, I 762 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 1: can hear. Yeah, yeah, you know, and I'm validating. But 763 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, even though it feels I'm not denying the 764 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: grave loss and the lack of physical presence and how 765 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,799 Speaker 1: much it hurts to not get that phone call or 766 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: not feel that hug. But if you really feel them 767 00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: in your heart, you'll hear them. 768 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 8: And I love too that you talked about how she 769 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,960 Speaker 8: left things even for her her grandchildren, you know, for 770 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 8: your for your child, because I'm also reminded me think 771 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 8: about signs. And you know, a lot of the first 772 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,919 Speaker 8: time that a lot of people were introduced to our 773 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 8: daughter was when she spoke at the March for Our 774 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 8: Lives rally, which she did without any prior warning, literally 775 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,839 Speaker 8: two hours before she was on the stage. But what's 776 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 8: interesting is that a week before that and I wanted 777 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 8: to make sure like she wasn't when we went, she 778 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 8: wasn't preparing to speak, you know, but she got the 779 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,480 Speaker 8: phone call two hours before. 780 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 11: But a week before. 781 00:46:54,040 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 8: That, she had a dream about Martin's parents, and in 782 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 8: that dream even her grandfather took her up some stairs 783 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 8: and then he was talking to her. And so it 784 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 8: almost felt like at this moment when his grandchild was 785 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 8: being introduced to the world and she was, you know, 786 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,960 Speaker 8: going forward in her her destiny, he ate, in some 787 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 8: manner was there. And not only that coach because he 788 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 8: you know, in the dreams, he talked to her and 789 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 8: kind of coached her. So they are still a part 790 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,600 Speaker 8: of who we are. 791 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 6: And it takes such courage to come onto this global 792 00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 6: conversation and to share your story, which you've done with rawness, 793 00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,960 Speaker 6: with love, with humility, with emotion, and with wisdom. Joe 794 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 6: on behalf of is a fellow male. I want to 795 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520 Speaker 6: say thank you for having the courage and having the 796 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:50,680 Speaker 6: courage to get up and stand up and talk about 797 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 6: these traumas and encourage other men to talk about the traumas. 798 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,040 Speaker 5: Joe, I just want to echo marks words a gratitude 799 00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 5: this entire group. But what I think you added that 800 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:01,799 Speaker 5: was so powerful is we first have to have the 801 00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 5: courage to bring it up. And it's only when we 802 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,200 Speaker 5: have the courage to bring it up, to face it, 803 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 5: to have those difficult moments like we had today with you. 804 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:11,760 Speaker 5: With that rawness, that vulnerability, that courage, can we truly 805 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,000 Speaker 5: let it go. And so to our listeners who have 806 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 5: the trauma in their life that they're facing to have 807 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,239 Speaker 5: the courage to face to have the courage to work 808 00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,760 Speaker 5: through it and have courage to let that shit go. 809 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 10: Thank you so much for having us on and give 810 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,240 Speaker 10: the opportunity to continue to talk about our stories. 811 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for having us on. 812 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 2: We were pretty emotional when we got the call. 813 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 6: And I also want to congratulate you. I've known Craig 814 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 6: of course my entire life and of course his entire 815 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,839 Speaker 6: life as he's my brother, and in the forty plus 816 00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 6: years that Craig has been on this earth, this is 817 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 6: the first time I've ever heard him use the shit 818 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,520 Speaker 6: word and swear, so congratulations. It's actually the first time 819 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 6: since I was probably six or seven years old, I've 820 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 6: actually ever used a word of preventity. 821 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 5: Yes, my wife was teasing me She's like, you canna 822 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,800 Speaker 5: introduce this book. You can say this book, bleep it yourself. 823 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,040 Speaker 6: So that book that Let that Shit Go has taken 824 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 6: us in terms of healing trauma, of course, and we 825 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 6: love the book, but has also now brought us closer 826 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,040 Speaker 6: together as brothers because I've been trying to get him 827 00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 6: to squear his entire life. So congratulations. 828 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,320 Speaker 2: So I guess that's a win. I mean for your kids, 829 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:18,879 Speaker 2: maybe off, but Fred. 830 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,160 Speaker 11: Thank you for joining us. 831 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:27,239 Speaker 8: If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us 832 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,240 Speaker 8: at my Legacy Movement on social media. New episodes drop 833 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 8: every Tuesday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor King's 834 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 8: vision of the beloved community and the power of connection. 835 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 8: A Legacy Plus Studio production distribute it by iHeartMedia creator 836 00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,960 Speaker 8: and executive producer Suzanne Haywood co executive producer Lisa Lyle. 837 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:51,359 Speaker 11: Listen on the. 838 00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:56,400 Speaker 8: iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time, 839 00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,640 Speaker 8: may you find inspiration to live your legacy.