Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we're back for our second episode two Jersey Jays.
Speaker 2: I'm Jackie Goldschneider. I'm Jen Fessler. Guys. We're so excited
Speaker 2: our first podcast.
Speaker 3: I mean, we are so grateful, first of all, for
Speaker 3: you guys for listening.
Speaker 2: It's it's so well, we love you guys. Thank you.
Speaker 3: I keep saying like it's I'm so grateful to my bowel.
Speaker 3: I feel like that was actually.
Speaker 2: Jenn's impacted bowel took one for the team. The bowel
Speaker 2: heard around the world. Yeah, yeah, how was that bowel done?
Speaker 2: It's oh, you know something.
Speaker 3: I It's funny because I got so many phone calls
Speaker 3: and so many texts from people concerned about me.
Speaker 2: I guess I didn't.
Speaker 3: I wasn't clear that I was like miss the incident
Speaker 3: in the hospital was months and months ago.
Speaker 2: But it was actually really nice.
Speaker 3: I'm like getting calls from people I went to sleep
Speaker 3: away camp with You're like, you know, I'm sorry, Hi, Jen,
Speaker 3: I know we haven't talked in thirty years, but are
Speaker 3: you okay?
Speaker 2: I think that people would be so concerned about your content. Yes,
Speaker 2: that was very it was actually very heart warming. But
Speaker 2: he really do give a share. They look at.
Speaker 3: It was really nice, and but I did want to
Speaker 3: sort of like emphasize that it happened a long time ago,
Speaker 3: a long time ago, but months and months, and that
Speaker 3: it has not happened since because I have been doing
Speaker 3: as directed and chugging my water and taking my mir
Speaker 3: relax and eating broccoli when I have to.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: But anyway, but we were we were just at jingle Ball.
Speaker 2: Did you have fun? I mean it was amazing. No,
Speaker 2: it was so cool.
Speaker 1: Forget like Share, I mean, how is Share in her?
Speaker 1: What is she in her seventies right is? And she
Speaker 1: looks so good and like it has more like dance
Speaker 1: moves than any twenty year old I know, Like she's
Speaker 1: just like seventy is fifty?
Speaker 2: Is it that makes us? I don't know. My mom's
Speaker 2: in her seventies, She's she's pretty seventies she is, Yeah.
Speaker 3: My mom is eighty one years old. She runs from
Speaker 3: five to eight miles a day. That's a fact. She's
Speaker 3: like they call it like a superager. She is with
Speaker 3: like weights on her wrists. She's it's she's so much more.
Speaker 3: She's so much more busy than I am. She is
Speaker 3: between majohn running in her my god, you have no idea.
Speaker 3: She is like over the top and so much more
Speaker 3: in shape than I am. She stays up until I
Speaker 3: don't know eleven, I'm like in bed by nine thirty.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm in my eighties. I think I want to
Speaker 1: catch up on every single movie I've never seen.
Speaker 3: I'm already I want to move. Yeah, I don't move now.
Speaker 1: So guys, we have got you know, we got to
Speaker 1: outdo our first episode and it more outrageous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only one way to do that. Talk about sex.
Speaker 2: Talk about sex, baby, No, but really, let's talk about sex.
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know what, there's a lot of
Speaker 1: talk about sex on these housewives shows, and I don't
Speaker 1: I don't really think that.
Speaker 3: It's that accurates. Well, it's not for me. I mean
Speaker 3: in terms of what I hear and the way that
Speaker 3: sex is described. And I don't know if you know,
Speaker 3: certainly like as you get older, sex changes, as your
Speaker 3: body changes, as your relationships change.
Speaker 2: But I don't.
Speaker 3: I tend to not really identify with a lot of
Speaker 3: what I hear. Yeah, not just a Housewives, but you
Speaker 3: know whatever other TV shows. I relate a lot to
Speaker 3: my friends when we talk about it. You know, in
Speaker 3: a casual way and describe sex where sort of the
Speaker 3: same points in our lives when it comes to it.
Speaker 3: But I don't relate to a lot of what I
Speaker 3: hear from housewives and celebrities.
Speaker 1: Right well, a lot of people on these shows imply
Speaker 1: that they have sex like multiple times of weeks, Like
Speaker 1: they're pulling each other into closets when the kids are
Speaker 1: like in the room next door, and like they're having
Speaker 1: sex everywhere, and like, you know, the reason why I
Speaker 1: have beef with it is because it makes you feel
Speaker 1: like there's something wrong with you, you know, Like a
Speaker 1: lot of times I'll be listening to these conversations and
Speaker 1: I'll say to myself, God, I love my husband so much,
Speaker 1: but like, what's wrong with me that I'm not, like,
Speaker 1: you know, ripping him into a closet, like you know,
Speaker 1: between like you know, afternoon sports, driving and like dinner.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think I was ever like that,
Speaker 3: to be quite honest with you, even as a younger person,
Speaker 3: when I was in my twenties and I guess my
Speaker 3: late teens when I started having sex, but I was
Speaker 3: I never felt like I couldn't wait for the sex
Speaker 3: and truth be told when I was younger, the only
Speaker 3: thing that was on my mind during sex was pleasing
Speaker 3: the guy because I was and you and I have.
Speaker 2: Spoken about this in your book.
Speaker 3: I was always so desperate for a man's attention and
Speaker 3: you know, just looking for intimacy and wanting to connect
Speaker 3: with a guy. And my way of doing that it
Speaker 3: didn't work, to be quite honest with you, but was
Speaker 3: to please them. And I was not in touch at
Speaker 3: all with my body or what I wanted probably. I mean,
Speaker 3: I met Jeff when I was twenty nine, but you know, really,
Speaker 3: until I was relaxed enough and trusted someone enough to
Speaker 3: be interested in my own wants and desires.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got to tell you.
Speaker 1: I think that that's one of the reasons why I
Speaker 1: hate blowjobs so much, is because when I was younger,
Speaker 1: like way before I was married, I was so interested
Speaker 1: in like just pleasing a guy so they would like
Speaker 1: me that I gave so many times. I'm sorry, Dad,
Speaker 1: if you're listening, but I give you kids, or quite
Speaker 1: a few blowjobs to guys who buttoned up their pants
Speaker 1: and then never looked at me again.
Speaker 2: Me too.
Speaker 1: And I think maybe like there's some kind of dramatic
Speaker 1: attachment to a low job for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I see that. I just don't like them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe it's a whole.
Speaker 3: But I always tell Rachel my daughter, and she will
Speaker 3: only talk to me, you know, to a point in
Speaker 3: terms of sex. But I hope that whatever she's doing,
Speaker 3: she is doing what makes her feel good, not just
Speaker 3: what makes a guy feel good, right, and and that
Speaker 3: she's with somebody who actually gives a shit about her pleasure.
Speaker 3: Because we bond over this now, you and I like
Speaker 3: so many other things. All I cared about was that
Speaker 3: they would come back for more. Yes, which is a
Speaker 3: sad one hundred but okay.
Speaker 1: So on these shows, a lot of people talk about
Speaker 1: all the sex they're having all the time. Several of
Speaker 1: our own cast members talk about having it every morning,
Speaker 1: four times a day, you know, and like, more power
Speaker 1: to them.
Speaker 2: If that's true.
Speaker 1: But I will tell you there have been a lot
Speaker 1: of studies on this, and the leading studies so that
Speaker 1: women are age you know, middle aged, you know, forties, fifties,
Speaker 1: married couples, you're having sex once a week.
Speaker 3: That's you know, it's hard with this to like, I
Speaker 3: want to be as honest as possible in his open
Speaker 3: wall still, you know, protecting my family and my husband. Yes,
Speaker 3: and so it's hard to give intimate details. But I
Speaker 3: will say this, that's a lot to me. That's just
Speaker 3: being honest. I'm my sex drive is it was never crazy.
Speaker 3: I never had a huge sex drive. From being honest.
Speaker 3: But Jeff is sixty one, you know, I'm fifty five,
Speaker 3: and we are empty nesters. Well you know, so sort
Speaker 3: of like our kids now are back and forth. But anyway,
Speaker 3: but it's still I don't have that. It doesn't even
Speaker 3: occur to me once a week necessarily, maybe once every
Speaker 3: couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: What does he say about it?
Speaker 3: Listen, if he, Jeff wants to have sex, I and
Speaker 3: he does more than I do. I want to do
Speaker 3: to you know, satisfy him, and so I'm more I'm
Speaker 3: open to it.
Speaker 2: I just it doesn't occur to me right, And I
Speaker 2: don't know it's you do.
Speaker 3: Hear so so much talk, there's so much talk of
Speaker 3: how important sex is. Even you know, when I go
Speaker 3: to my gynecologist by he put me on estrogen and
Speaker 3: now I'm taking even estrogen pellets which are stronger than
Speaker 3: I guess the cream that my doctor prescribed. And once
Speaker 3: he did he say to it? He said, to me,
Speaker 3: you know, is your is it increased your sex drive?
Speaker 3: Is your sex drive better? Because I had, you know,
Speaker 3: I had spoken with him about the fact that it's low,
Speaker 3: and I was almost embarrassed. I was like, not really,
Speaker 3: and you know, is that not healthy physically? Emotionally? I
Speaker 3: feel like for me, sex is pleasurable, important, but it's
Speaker 3: not the most intimate thing that I share with Jeff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's other there are.
Speaker 1: So many other things that for me feel intimate, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: I understand that. I mean I do have on average
Speaker 1: once sometimes twice a week, but definitely not more than that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think that's a really unrealistic,
Speaker 1: you know, picture of what a healthy sex life looks like.
Speaker 3: When I'm with friends out to dinner, I'll get a
Speaker 3: lot of uh, you know, buy the end of the
Speaker 3: meal or whatever. Like someone will inevitably say one of
Speaker 3: the women will inevitably say, you know, shit, he's gonna
Speaker 3: want Like shit.
Speaker 2: I know he's gonna want tonight. He's totally okay.
Speaker 1: I would have dinner once and I ordered a dish
Speaker 1: with onions on it, and one of the women at
Speaker 1: my table looked at me and she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's like, somebody's not gonna want it tonight. And I
Speaker 1: said to her, because I'm eating onions, like I can
Speaker 1: eat out of the toilet bowl, and he would.
Speaker 3: Still want it tonight, right, Well, listen, And it's I
Speaker 3: think a lot of women feel like because their husbands
Speaker 3: or their partners are so interested in it more often
Speaker 3: that it becomes an obligation.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: You know, I have a lot of friends who say
Speaker 3: that their husband take it every day, multiple times a day.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, So I wonder and I think about this sometimes
Speaker 3: as a wife, you know, with I have such a
Speaker 3: wonderful husband who is so good to me and so
Speaker 3: good to our children and such a hard worker. And
Speaker 3: he again like he's not a twenty year old right,
Speaker 3: thank god, because his I don't want to talk too
Speaker 3: much about his sex drive. But it's not what a
Speaker 3: twenty year old, friends is. But is it for men
Speaker 3: almost like a physical pain or they need it.
Speaker 2: Like they need it? What is the mean that you
Speaker 2: need it? Well?
Speaker 3: I picture and again like that's why when you know,
Speaker 3: when Jeff's in the mood, I even if I'm not
Speaker 3: in the mood, I want to please him and not
Speaker 3: be I mean, I don't want to be. Maybe I
Speaker 3: hope this is not like anti feminist, but it's just
Speaker 3: the truth. I love him and if he's in the mood,
Speaker 3: and even if I'm not, I do want to, you know,
Speaker 3: make him feel good. And but I wonder if for
Speaker 3: men it's almost like so uncomfortable to not have sex and.
Speaker 1: Oh no, see this is what I wonder. Also is
Speaker 1: it like are you in physical pain? I don't think so.
Speaker 1: But also like longing like those well you know what,
Speaker 1: like go in the bathroom and jack off.
Speaker 3: They but that's not what so many men want, and
Speaker 3: I wonder why. Also, like isn't an orgasm?
Speaker 2: Is orgasm? Does it really like right? You know?
Speaker 3: And then there are I hear stories from my friends
Speaker 3: as well that it's not enough just to have sex,
Speaker 3: like it has to be an ordeal.
Speaker 2: It should be yeah, to be like an hour.
Speaker 3: Long, an hour long, yes that's time for that me,
Speaker 3: but an hour long, you know, for play. And I
Speaker 3: don't know, I couldn't. I could not deal with that.
Speaker 3: And I know a lot of women love that. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm not saying not all women are like me that
Speaker 3: you know, are not interested in it many.
Speaker 2: Times a week, a day.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but this is just my friends and
Speaker 3: the way that I feel, and it's not a priority
Speaker 3: and certainly like not to.
Speaker 2: Like do it for an.
Speaker 3: Hour and no, no, no, no, what about like toys
Speaker 3: and lingerie?
Speaker 2: Are you guys into that kind of stuff? No, so
Speaker 2: definitely not lingerie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely not lingerie for me either, And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's like misrepresented too. You have these women who
Speaker 1: walk out of the bathroom in like a garter and
Speaker 1: like something up their ass.
Speaker 2: I don't know, something up there, ac No, not like
Speaker 2: a dildo.
Speaker 1: I mean like a thong, you know, like a lash
Speaker 1: thong and like missing pieces in the nipple story.
Speaker 2: Nothing.
Speaker 3: I'm not like, I'm not that into that. I mean, listen,
Speaker 3: I love a good vibrator.
Speaker 2: Is that a toy?
Speaker 3: That's just a necessary part of life? I feel like
Speaker 3: for me, for me, I don't know. Listen, Jackie's getting like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta tell you a jenn is so much
Speaker 1: more comfortable talking about like the real intimate Like we
Speaker 1: we have a you know, we were talking about what
Speaker 1: we might discuss and she was like, let's talk about masturbation.
Speaker 1: I was like, I think I turned like a whiter
Speaker 1: shade of pil I was. I didn't know what to say.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I have.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I maybe when I was younger
Speaker 3: like that, even that word, I would just bristle, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the way I am still to right, But no,
Speaker 2: not anymore. I certainly don't feel like that anymore. And
Speaker 2: I also, you know, having two older kids when they
Speaker 2: were younger, maybe even the age of your kids, I
Speaker 2: remember having discussions with them talking about how it was
Speaker 2: natural and they should never feel shame around it, that
Speaker 2: it's appropriate, you know, when they know that they're they're
Speaker 2: in a private setting.
Speaker 1: You said that to your kids, Yes, oh my god.
Speaker 1: If my mother said that to me, I would.
Speaker 3: Scream at her, no, don't anyway, Well, listen, I remember
Speaker 3: being the age, maybe in my teens, right, and I
Speaker 3: would like lock myself in the bathroom for ever, and
Speaker 3: when i'd come out, I know you're laughing, I would,
Speaker 3: And I remember like I would feel shame around it.
Speaker 3: I don't remember the whys or felt like I was,
Speaker 3: you know, in some way doing something wrong. And I
Speaker 3: just never wanted my kids I feel that way. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I never felt like that, you know, I mean I
Speaker 3: definitely did, but I.
Speaker 1: Always did feel like it was like a dirty little secret.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, no, I mean it's it's just part of
Speaker 3: I think, being human.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So, like your kids are home for the holidays,
Speaker 1: now I have four teenagers in my house, Like, it's
Speaker 1: just not realistic for us to close the door and
Speaker 1: have a clique because my kids will hear it, and
Speaker 1: they're not stupid, they know all about sex, and like
Speaker 1: I won't be able to relax knowing that they could
Speaker 1: be hearing us. Well, it happened to us for sure.
Speaker 3: When this is obviously going back years ago, and I
Speaker 3: didn't realize that I was making a little bit too
Speaker 3: much noise, and all of a sudden, like my daughter
Speaker 3: started screaming how old was she about teens?
Speaker 2: I mean maybe okay, early teens.
Speaker 3: It was a mistake. And we don't have doors on
Speaker 3: our bedroom that lock. We have like glass double doors,
Speaker 3: and she was like traumatized and furious, and she's like,
Speaker 3: how could you how could you let me hear that?
Speaker 2: And I understand that of course it.
Speaker 3: Must have been just like you know, so just awkward
Speaker 3: at best, traumatizing at worst, but it happened. And the
Speaker 3: truth is, I did say to myself, I don't know
Speaker 3: if it I hope it didn't, like, you know, actually
Speaker 3: like traumatize her for real. But it's she should know
Speaker 3: that her parents are human and adults and sexual beings,
Speaker 3: and I'll want that for her when she gets older.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I didn't understand a lot of things.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, you know, my dad next
Speaker 1: to his bed, he had a dresser and the bottom
Speaker 1: of the dresser it was a playbook.
Speaker 2: I knew you were going to say that. I always
Speaker 2: used to go right. I always used to look at it.
Speaker 2: I remember the women.
Speaker 1: There was one who was totally naked dressed where she
Speaker 1: was sitting in like a forest with snow all over
Speaker 1: the place. That she was wearing a huge white fur
Speaker 1: coat and she was completely naked underneath in the like
Speaker 1: spread eagle. And I remember I always used to look
Speaker 1: at that picture and be like, why isn't she dressed?
Speaker 2: It's so snowy, and like.
Speaker 1: When I got older and I realized why my dad
Speaker 1: had that magazine next to his bedside, I was like,
Speaker 1: which those pages all time?
Speaker 3: I remember, well used to look I absolutely did find
Speaker 3: playboys and I have had we're the one step father,
Speaker 3: and so I would always find Playboy and it also
Speaker 3: like turned me on. I remember bringing it into the
Speaker 3: bathroom with me, you know, and just probably feeling shame
Speaker 3: around that as well. And it's interesting now like that
Speaker 3: sort of leads into I guess a discussion a little
Speaker 3: bit about porn.
Speaker 2: And I don't mind born.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I don't mind it either. I enjoy it.
Speaker 3: It's not on a daily but yeah, I mean like
Speaker 3: if we're away, it turns me on, you know, just
Speaker 3: being in a hotel room. This is so so hard
Speaker 3: to navigate, like what's TMI and what's just honesty?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Well, I think if you think that other people could
Speaker 1: relate to it and normalizes something that's a little bit taboo,
Speaker 1: then a lot of people talk about enjoying porn, especially
Speaker 1: I don't talk about growing porn with any of my girlfriends.
Speaker 2: Well now you do, oh with you? Yes? Welcome, welcome.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like whatever makes you feel good, right,
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like if it turns you on,
Speaker 3: then maybe it's for me it works. It's I don't know,
Speaker 3: and I know there's a lot wrong. A lot of
Speaker 3: people feel a lot of my friends feel like porn.
Speaker 3: They catch their husbands or significant others watching. They don't
Speaker 3: feel good about it, They feel sort of betrayed. So
Speaker 3: can I ask you a question obviously if.
Speaker 1: You don't need to answer, if you don't feel comfortable, Okay,
Speaker 1: you and your husband separated at one point, yes, okay.
Speaker 2: Well for a year? Why do we separate? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I talked about this on the show, but for those
Speaker 3: of you who didn't watch, the very quick version is
Speaker 3: that there was infidelity and we were about seven years
Speaker 3: in so, like, it's so cliche, right, the seven year
Speaker 3: itch and I think that we were both sort of
Speaker 3: checked out of the marriage at that point.
Speaker 1: And okay, so it didn't have to do with your
Speaker 1: sex life all, you had a healthy sex life.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a great question. I don't think we
Speaker 3: were connecting in any way. So if we weren't, you know,
Speaker 3: connecting mentally or physically or emotionally, that was probably at
Speaker 3: the root of it. And so there was infidelity on
Speaker 3: both of our parts.
Speaker 2: And I don't but I know, I don't. It was
Speaker 2: not for me about sex.
Speaker 3: We weren't connecting, but it was not for me about
Speaker 3: the sex is not good and I'm going to find
Speaker 3: it somewhere else.
Speaker 2: It wasn't about that at all.
Speaker 1: So when so there was infidelity and then while you
Speaker 1: were separated, you were with somebody.
Speaker 2: Else more than one person, more than one person.
Speaker 1: Multiple, We're like, how did that feel? Because then you
Speaker 1: eventually ended up getting back together. How long was the
Speaker 1: separation out? A year? Yeah, so you had multiple partners.
Speaker 1: Was it different? Did you feel more like you wanted
Speaker 1: to have sex with them because they were new and
Speaker 1: a new body?
Speaker 3: I mean you would think so, right, Yeah, I mean
Speaker 3: I And again I mean I'm just just go I
Speaker 3: think I do have that like is there something wrong
Speaker 3: with me or is it from trauma in my childhood
Speaker 3: that I can't connect with my body enough to really
Speaker 3: like enjoy sex the way I hear that so many
Speaker 3: women do.
Speaker 2: But anyway, No.
Speaker 3: Yes, of course, it was exciting to be with someone
Speaker 3: new after being married for seven years.
Speaker 2: But again.
Speaker 3: It was not I don't think it ever was about
Speaker 3: the sex. If anything, the sex was the least of it.
Speaker 2: It was just.
Speaker 3: About the connection, Like it was about the first kiss.
Speaker 3: It was about you know, the laying naked and being intimate.
Speaker 3: But no, for me, it wasn't about like, Okay, you know,
Speaker 3: so this is what I've.
Speaker 2: Been missing, not at all.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, And did your sex life change after
Speaker 1: you and Jeff got back together?
Speaker 2: No, no, I'm gonna say no. Listen, and it's not it.
Speaker 3: We have always had a wonderful connection.
Speaker 2: I like to be close to Jeff.
Speaker 3: I want to be like even just at night when
Speaker 3: we are sleeping, I sometimes will just hick him and
Speaker 3: wake him up just so I can just hear his boy.
Speaker 3: He doesn't love that or like you can just like
Speaker 3: go like like move over closer, or I just want
Speaker 3: to like hold his hand, makes me feel safe, and
Speaker 3: he turns me on in more ways like than just sexually. Right,
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't know, he's just I like his body.
Speaker 3: I like the smell of him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like Evan's you know, I like just like
Speaker 2: just wing safe. Yeah. Yeah, all right, So let's let's
Speaker 2: change topic. Tiny bit.
Speaker 1: I was watching another Bravo show, and on that show
Speaker 1: was recent somebody made a comment and this person was
Speaker 1: happily married and said that she just doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: people are meant to be monogamous forever. And it really
Speaker 1: struck me because I took that to mean that she
Speaker 1: it didn't feel natural for her to only have sex
Speaker 1: with her husband for the rest of her life. And
Speaker 1: I questioned, is does does monogamy feel natural to me?
Speaker 2: And it does. I don't think that I could feel.
Speaker 1: Intimate with somebody else, you know, and still be married
Speaker 1: to my husband.
Speaker 2: Like I think that there's so much more to sex.
Speaker 2: There's the connection, there's trust, there's all of that.
Speaker 1: So for me, I wonder is it certain people that
Speaker 1: just can't be monogamous or that are Can you be
Speaker 1: happily married and want to have sex with other men?
Speaker 2: Well, isn't it true that I don't know?
Speaker 3: Animals in the wild they're not monogamous, right, Like that's
Speaker 3: and we are, you know, in essence, we are animals,
Speaker 3: And so maybe that's a fact, right, Maybe it's not
Speaker 3: really natural. And I think that I hesitate to say
Speaker 3: this again, I don't know, is this I want to
Speaker 3: be as always pro woman, but is it less natural
Speaker 3: for women more natural for men to be with other partners?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. I know we got to look into that,
Speaker 2: we have to.
Speaker 3: Look into that, but I don't. I don't know if
Speaker 3: I think that it's natural or not. But I just
Speaker 3: I think that at some point it feels daunting to
Speaker 3: think that this is it right, like, and not just
Speaker 3: because of the sexual aspects of it, but you're married,
Speaker 3: and you're married for a long time or not, but
Speaker 3: like that this is the only person that I'm going
Speaker 3: to lay with and be intimate with, and wow, you know,
Speaker 3: am I missing something? I think that I felt like
Speaker 3: that at seven years in.
Speaker 2: You know, I have heard a lot of rumors in
Speaker 2: my town or in other towns about swinging, and I
Speaker 2: wonder sometimes.
Speaker 1: How true that is? How many people actually swing? And like,
Speaker 1: once your kids are completely grown up and you're a
Speaker 1: little later in life and maybe you want to have
Speaker 1: a little fun, do you think something like swinging or
Speaker 1: something like a hall pass could ever work.
Speaker 2: I don't swing.
Speaker 3: In terms of swinging, the idea of being picture it
Speaker 3: as being just naked, right, And like what there was
Speaker 3: that show about what is it called when you're married
Speaker 3: to a lot of people?
Speaker 2: Polymorpha? Polymorphous?
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was Sister Wives, No, but there was also
Speaker 3: the show about Holymorphousy. I can't say, I don't know,
Speaker 3: but about people that shared multiple partners and they were
Speaker 3: all like they would live together and get married and
Speaker 3: there was multiple There was I don't know four of them.
Speaker 3: They were all married and they were having sex with
Speaker 3: each other and then they would go to like these
Speaker 3: do we still call them orgies?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And I just can't picture a scenario where I would
Speaker 3: be comfortable enough to take all of my clothes off
Speaker 3: and go round the room and enjoy more.
Speaker 2: For me, I can't picture that.
Speaker 3: And I have also heard the stories in my town
Speaker 3: about swingers and what is it key parties or something
Speaker 3: you pass away?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't think so, not because I don't not even
Speaker 3: getting deep about it.
Speaker 2: I just don't think I want to, like, yeah, no.
Speaker 1: Not for me either. There was that mom talk do
Speaker 1: you remember mom talk on TikTok?
Speaker 2: No? It was these you know, I got to get
Speaker 2: it straight. But I think they were all swinging.
Speaker 1: It was a bunch of like I don't know if
Speaker 1: they were they were some kind of religious group, but
Speaker 1: then all the women were swinging.
Speaker 2: They might have been Mormons. I might be making that
Speaker 2: up anyway, can fall past? Do you think?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no, I mean I know I'm saying
Speaker 1: that's what more than people do. I'm saying, oh, light
Speaker 1: have been to you. But uh, what about a hall pass?
Speaker 1: Did that ever work? I mean, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I feel like I got one in a sense. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like we sort of both did, but it's different now.
Speaker 1: I don't know, not really, because you were both like
Speaker 1: taking a break. Yes, hall pass, you're not taking a break.
Speaker 1: Hall pass is you're fully married and like you get
Speaker 1: one night. I guess with somebody else, I don't think
Speaker 1: that could work. I think it would destroy a marriage, right,
Speaker 1: isn't that that movie?
Speaker 2: Yeah? With them? Yeah, I've never seen it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I I don't listen. I don't rule out anything.
Speaker 3: There's different. Everybody's different, and whatever works for your marriage,
Speaker 3: great if it, you know, I don't know for my
Speaker 3: marriage at this point in life. Ast of all, I don't
Speaker 3: want one.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I'm not that doesn't honestly like I feel at this
Speaker 3: point in my life. I used to crave the attention
Speaker 3: of men. It was so important to me that I
Speaker 3: walked into a room and that men would look at
Speaker 3: me and that they thought that I was sexy. Now,
Speaker 3: if I never felt that again, it would be too soon,
Speaker 3: Like I don't have that. That doesn't drive me so
Speaker 3: a hall pass.
Speaker 2: Listen.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not going to kick George Clooney out
Speaker 3: of my bed like you used to talk about that,
Speaker 3: or like I used to have. I was obsessed with
Speaker 3: Blake Shelton and so because I'm like always upstairs in
Speaker 3: my bed just like, Okay, guess what if Blake Shelton
Speaker 3: makes it to our house and he goes up the
Speaker 3: stairs and he sees you sitting there with crumbs around you, okay,
Speaker 3: in your like like just laying there like a.
Speaker 2: Slot, and he you want to and he wants to
Speaker 2: go for it.
Speaker 1: Really, I don't think I've ever heard Evan once mentioned
Speaker 1: that he thought any kind of celebrity was attractive. And
Speaker 1: he doesn't like if I talk about it. I'll tell
Speaker 1: you something when the when the show first came on.
Speaker 1: When I was first on the show back in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: I was at an event and I was so like
Speaker 1: new to all of this, and then and Page six
Speaker 1: was there and they were interviewing people. They pulled me over.
Speaker 1: I don't think our show was even airing yet. We
Speaker 1: had just finished filming, and they were like, we're going
Speaker 1: to ask you rapid fire, like twenty questions.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: So they were asking me favorite restaurant, favorite food, you know,
Speaker 1: favorite brand to wear, and then they said celebrity crush.
Speaker 1: I said, I don't really have one, and they said,
Speaker 1: just just pick somebody.
Speaker 2: So I always thought that the football player.
Speaker 1: That Kim Kardashian was married to was gorgeous, So I said,
Speaker 1: who's that guy that Kim Kardashian was married to?
Speaker 2: Reggie Bush? And they said, okay, next question.
Speaker 1: You know, they kept going and the next morning, Evan
Speaker 1: got like twenty like people sending him. The headline was
Speaker 1: New New Jersey House. I was a crush on Reggie Bush.
Speaker 2: He was pissed.
Speaker 1: I think he was embarrassed, and I felt so bad
Speaker 1: so I tried not to like ever like even mentioned
Speaker 1: that I feel like somebody else might be attractive because
Speaker 1: I don't want to insult him, like I feel bad,
Speaker 1: but like he knows that I have, like anyone who
Speaker 1: knows me knows that I have like a wicked, wild
Speaker 1: crush on Pete Davidson. And it's so fucking unrealistic, Like
Speaker 1: what's really gonna happen? Is he really gonna leave? Like
Speaker 1: and all the crushed on having Goldschneider. I mean, let's
Speaker 1: get real, but like.
Speaker 2: I don't know, we were just talking about swing. No
Speaker 2: thank you. Love love that man, but no thank you.
Speaker 3: And obviously we know he's got Jackie gold Stutter doesn't
Speaker 3: me but anyway, But the point is that Jeff would.
Speaker 2: Never that doesn't even occur to him.
Speaker 3: I mean we like we can be there watching a
Speaker 3: movie with our kids and I could oh my god,
Speaker 3: he's so hot, or you see, I don't oh god
Speaker 3: that she's so your type.
Speaker 2: I don't know why they know that. Yeah, it's always sad.
Speaker 2: I don't think Evan has ever said that he thinks
Speaker 2: that somebody. Why does that make you feel bad?
Speaker 1: I think no, because I don't want to disrespect him
Speaker 1: by saying like, oh that person like I would. I
Speaker 1: mean I would never say all that man is cute,
Speaker 1: you know, but like even like a silly celebrity crush
Speaker 1: like I I don't know, we don't talk about though
Speaker 1: I would say that.
Speaker 3: I would say any of that and do say it,
Speaker 3: like like even just oh my god, look at that guy.
Speaker 3: He's gorgeous, like in front of I don't know, my kids,
Speaker 3: And it doesn't that doesn't phaze me.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't want to haul pass and I'm not giving out. No,
Speaker 3: I don't have either maybe back in the day. So
Speaker 3: what about so when you see all that time, Mary,
Speaker 3: what is it?
Speaker 2: Mary? Kill? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean like even that, like I would not feel
Speaker 1: comfortable because I think that he would be insulted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also like I don't really want to sure, Like
Speaker 1: I love my husband, I don't know that family. And
Speaker 1: when I think about somebody else, but I'll, yeah, get
Speaker 1: on the list. I mean like there's a lot of people, but.
Speaker 2: I feel like it would destroy it.
Speaker 1: Like if I was to do that, it's not only
Speaker 1: hurting my husband, it's hurting my children.
Speaker 2: And I don't I don't ever want to think about that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Listen, when we when Jeff and I were separated,
Speaker 3: I because I had experienced a lot of divorce as
Speaker 3: a kid, and I was the you know kid in
Speaker 3: the scenario. My parents got divorced when I was three,
Speaker 3: So in my mind it I think I was surprised
Speaker 3: by how badly it hurt them, which seems silly and naive,
Speaker 3: but for me, it was part of my life right
Speaker 3: growing up, and.
Speaker 2: I that was.
Speaker 3: The hardest part was watching my kids miss daddy so much,
Speaker 3: and you know, not having our family unit together. And
Speaker 3: I I'm an idiot that I didn't anticipate that, but
Speaker 3: again I was. To me, it was like a part
Speaker 3: of life, right, And so the kid thing is very,
Speaker 3: very complicated.
Speaker 2: Again, I think that that.
Speaker 3: You have to factor yourself into the equation, even when
Speaker 3: it comes to your family. Your happiness has to matter.
Speaker 3: Have you ever been with a woman? I've kissed a woman?
Speaker 2: Really, yes, I never have.
Speaker 3: Yes, I kissed a woman again, like to please a man.
Speaker 3: It was so sad, right, So I don't know, I
Speaker 3: don't know about telling too much, but I did it
Speaker 3: to turn on a guy. That's just so pathetic.
Speaker 1: But it's so you'll talk about masturbating in the bathroom
Speaker 1: with a playboy from your stepfather.
Speaker 3: But A yeah, I don't know, some stuff feels right
Speaker 3: to talk about. Other it feels listen. I mean, what
Speaker 3: else is there to say? I kissed a woman?
Speaker 2: I mean how no, no, no, no no. I was wondering
Speaker 2: this the circumstances.
Speaker 1: So, you know, just to reiterate, like I just this
Speaker 1: study that I was looking at. It said that in
Speaker 1: your twenties. The average American has sex eighty times a year,
Speaker 1: which comes out to.
Speaker 2: Like one and a half times a week. But that's
Speaker 2: more that I mean, that's less than I would expect. Yeah,
Speaker 2: when you're in your when you're in your.
Speaker 1: Fifties or you have school age children, it's about once
Speaker 1: a week, and then when you're in your sixties it's
Speaker 1: twenty times a year.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't want to be disrespectful to my mom.
Speaker 3: She's a super ager. Yeah, yeah, at least it did.
Speaker 3: I mean now she's she's eighty one years old.
Speaker 2: But we've had discussions about it, and her mindset was always.
Speaker 3: That if it's if it pleases your husband so much
Speaker 3: and gives I don't know, relief in some way, then
Speaker 3: you know what's the problem, Like it's something that you do,
Speaker 3: and not that she didn't enjoy it too, but more
Speaker 3: from the perspective of, you know, the physical like if
Speaker 3: he has this physical need and he feels like when
Speaker 3: it's not satisfied, it's it's very hard to deal with
Speaker 3: and a lot of I know a lot of women
Speaker 3: and you probably do too, who feel like when they
Speaker 3: don't have have consistent sex with their husbands or their
Speaker 3: partners or whatever, that the partners get in a bad
Speaker 3: mood and it comes like in between them. I mean
Speaker 3: you hear that from your friends, Like I have friends
Speaker 3: that say, you know, get mad, they would go get
Speaker 3: very crazy. They withhold sex when they're mad at their husbands.
Speaker 3: I think it'd be hard to have sex when you're
Speaker 3: mad at your partner. For me, it would be the
Speaker 3: last thing i'd want to do. But not not not
Speaker 3: to manipulate.
Speaker 1: You know. Personal problem for me was so you know,
Speaker 1: I had an eating disorder for a very very long time,
Speaker 1: and during that time, I used to play around with
Speaker 1: dangerous foods. When I say dangerous, I mean like they
Speaker 1: had chemicals in them that I see they.
Speaker 2: Were yeh's a snap. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So oftentimes I was extremely bloated. Even though I was
Speaker 1: skin and bones, I was. I was very bloated. So
Speaker 1: I used to wear a shirt very often when I
Speaker 1: had sex, and it was because I didn't like the
Speaker 1: way that my stomach looked right and I wasn't comfortable
Speaker 1: being naked. I was also very very cold, and that's
Speaker 1: one thing with recovery, Like I don't have that anymore,
Speaker 1: and it's great, but I always felt bad because I
Speaker 1: knew it was a little bit weird not to be naked.
Speaker 3: So I relate to that like wholeheartedly. When I was younger,
Speaker 3: I wore absolutely always, Oh my god, yes, and again,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I've scept with an union disorder
Speaker 3: as well. But even you know, the times where I
Speaker 3: would get really really heavy and I wouldn't even think
Speaker 3: about getting completely naked into If I'm being completely honest,
Speaker 3: I still have insecurities, even in front of Jeff, who
Speaker 3: has certainly seen it all. It's interesting to me that
Speaker 3: I've at least the men that I've been with, they
Speaker 3: don't seem to have any insecurities no matter what their
Speaker 3: body looks like, which I wish that.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: I wish that I had always felt like that, But
Speaker 3: I hope that keeps going back to sorry rag to
Speaker 3: my daughter, But I hope she feels like that right like,
Speaker 3: no matter what she feels in her body, that she
Speaker 3: would be able to enjoy sex and feel free and
Speaker 3: feel desirable, you know, no matter what.
Speaker 2: But I didn't. I still always, I still don't always.
Speaker 3: I don't walk around I would walk around naked if
Speaker 3: I have during the time where I felt like my
Speaker 3: body looked really good. I definitely have, but now not
Speaker 3: wanting to go back to last week's episode about ozembic,
Speaker 3: but things have changed and it just I look, my
Speaker 3: body looks so much older than it used to and
Speaker 3: I have I definitely have a little bit of shame
Speaker 3: around that and don't want to I'm not as free
Speaker 3: as I was at one time, but it's gone.
Speaker 2: In and out. Like can you do anything about that?
Speaker 2: I suppose I could exercise? Would that? No? Would that?
Speaker 2: Do it? Like? What kind like lifting wasting weights or yeah?
Speaker 2: I told I think.
Speaker 3: I also said in the last episode, I'm trying to
Speaker 3: incorporate more of that. And it's not just because of
Speaker 3: my looks, but because at you know, fifty five years old,
Speaker 3: I need to your bone density is fading and it's
Speaker 3: so important right to keep muscle and to keep blimber
Speaker 3: and flexible. And I'm just I'm when it comes to exercise,
Speaker 3: I'm lazy, so but it is, it's really important. And now,
Speaker 3: of course that would change. I think it would change
Speaker 3: what my body look like. When you fill up the
Speaker 3: skin with muscle, it's got to look better.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I still don't walk around naked. I love
Speaker 1: the way my body looks now. But I still don't
Speaker 1: walk around naked. I don't know, it doesn't feel natural
Speaker 1: to me.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my kids, two of my kids will walk around
Speaker 1: naked all day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't care at all. The other day, Hudson,
Speaker 2: he uh, he got.
Speaker 1: Like but like a sweatburn on his thighs, and I
Speaker 1: gave him a cream that started burning him and he's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god.
Speaker 2: He takes his short so he's just running.
Speaker 1: Around the house like beat his flapping you know, and
Speaker 1: his new little pubes everywhere.
Speaker 2: You don't give a crap. He didn't give a crap.
Speaker 2: So don't you feel like that's more of a boy thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean lately for my kids, I think that
Speaker 3: my son was waiting up than my daughter again, like
Speaker 3: it's sad that I would like for her to beat
Speaker 3: Peel is free.
Speaker 1: Yeah I don't. That would be nice. Can you imagine
Speaker 1: feeling so free?
Speaker 2: No? Yeah?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Maybe there any other personal stories.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean we didn't touch on like which I
Speaker 3: think we had spoken about before the podcast, But in
Speaker 3: terms of like that whole that whole life kink factor
Speaker 3: and sort of what I have. I do have that
Speaker 3: part of me and I'm not gonna delve in. I
Speaker 3: don't want to, you know, freak anyone out. But I
Speaker 3: do have that part of me that is has a
Speaker 3: very rich not imagination, well not just imagination, but fantasy
Speaker 3: life right that I incorporate. It helps me during sex
Speaker 3: to enjoy it. And I never really acted on any
Speaker 3: of those fantasies. But sometimes I sometimes think to myself, like,
Speaker 3: is that devan behavior? Talk to my therapist, abduct.
Speaker 1: Are they solo fantasies or they involve your partner solo?
Speaker 2: Oh? And so I wonder is that's something? Is that
Speaker 2: a common thing? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think everybody like closes their eyes sometimes thinks about
Speaker 1: something else when you feel bad.
Speaker 3: About that, knowing that like Evan was doing that, thinking
Speaker 3: about other women or other situations or other who knows,
Speaker 3: I mean other situation.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, honest to God, sometimes during sex I'll
Speaker 1: have to stop myself from thinking about like my choor lists,
Speaker 1: like what I.
Speaker 2: Have to get as to the supermarket. Want.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't help exactly, but I mean, like your
Speaker 1: mind does wander, yeahs to get there?
Speaker 2: Would I be insulted?
Speaker 1: I think I think a little like piece of my
Speaker 1: ego would probably be, but only because I don't know
Speaker 1: how fucking normal it is. I'm sure if you asked
Speaker 1: a hundred people and they didn't use their name and
Speaker 1: they were being honest, that a hundred people would tell
Speaker 1: you that sometimes they close their eyes and like picture
Speaker 1: someone else.
Speaker 2: It's not even someone else. Sure Evan has done it. Person.
Speaker 3: I'm not like closing my eyes and picturing a specific
Speaker 3: another man or woman, right, but I am picturing like
Speaker 3: I have these scenarios that turn me on, and you know,
Speaker 3: it's it is, it can be for me at times,
Speaker 3: it feels a little shameful. I don't know that it
Speaker 3: should though, you know, it's like and maybe it's supposed
Speaker 3: to stay private, and I've shared stuff with Jeff, but
Speaker 3: like also like acting on those with my husband is
Speaker 3: not something that I feel like it would just be
Speaker 3: so corny and silly, right, Like.
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know what they are. Well, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to tell you.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well maybe one day, who knows, see how popular
Speaker 3: the podcast gets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, maybe that will be your celebration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am like sexed out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like any cigarette. Oh wait, there was
Speaker 2: another thing, yeah, vacation. Oh yeah, I mean like, who
Speaker 2: put this like false narrative out there that Amen's sister. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to have feel like there's so much more
Speaker 2: relaxed on vacation. I mean it.
Speaker 1: Depends like are you alone with your husband? Is it
Speaker 1: like a couple's trip, Because then I understand.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean even if it's not like we always had,
Speaker 3: like you have a separate room from your kids? Is it, oh,
Speaker 3: you have a separate room at home. I guess I
Speaker 3: don't know. I didn't get the whole. I don't relate
Speaker 3: to the whole, Like we're on vacation. Now's the time
Speaker 3: we could finally like relax and let loose the intimacy
Speaker 3: that I feel on vacation. This doesn't sound like corny,
Speaker 3: but like it's just doing fun things with Jeff Right.
Speaker 3: It's like being relaxed enough to you know, have him
Speaker 3: hang out with me in the morning, drinking coffee in
Speaker 3: the bed and getting up and.
Speaker 2: Having a whole day in front of us.
Speaker 3: That's just about like what we want to do and
Speaker 3: enjoying that because I couldn't I don't think I could
Speaker 3: go on. I couldn't be with anyone on a vacation
Speaker 3: like any like I could be with Jeff. I don't
Speaker 3: want to go on. Maybe when I get older, I
Speaker 3: want to go away with a friend or but I
Speaker 3: like just being with him. We have the same rhythm.
Speaker 3: We've like developed this whole both of us, this whole
Speaker 3: rhythm on vacation. We kind of are in sync, right,
Speaker 3: like we only want to do so much or I
Speaker 3: only want to do so much touring. I want to
Speaker 3: do a lot of eating, so does Jeff. Right, I
Speaker 3: want to do a lot of laying around. I want
Speaker 3: to do a lot of shopping, and well he would
Speaker 3: rather actually not too much shopping. But we have also
Speaker 3: seeing sites, right, But we have we've set up this
Speaker 3: rhythm after all these years that we just have a
Speaker 3: great time when we're away. And it's not because you know,
Speaker 3: we're hanging from the chandeliers.
Speaker 1: It's just not, Yeah, you guys so much fun.
Speaker 2: I wish we could do like a question answer service names.
Speaker 1: I know, maybe we could, maybe we could do like
Speaker 1: a live show and take like callers and stuff. I
Speaker 1: have guests on. I want to have I do want
Speaker 1: to have guys on. Yeah, we're gonna start having guests.
Speaker 2: Guys.
Speaker 1: Send us like what you want us to talk about
Speaker 1: we're so excited.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be.
Speaker 1: Doing this for a long time, so we're gonna be
Speaker 1: coming to you, you know, right now. It's going to
Speaker 1: be every two weeks, but uh, we'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: Just future holds, who knows, I know what the future holds.
Speaker 2: Can Jeff get home?
Speaker 3: When Jeff gets home, yeah, the future then holds me
Speaker 3: in bed with Netflix and.
Speaker 2: Crumbs and fantasies of Blake Shelton. That's exactly all right. Well,
Speaker 2: we are two Jersey Jays. We love you, guys, we do.
Speaker 2: Thank you for listening. Talk to you. Bye.
Speaker 3: M