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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. This is all all the all basketball podcast,

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Speaker 1: all the time. Here's what we're gonna do. Okay, a

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Speaker 1: little different this time. UM. I have some basketball thoughts

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Speaker 1: about the n b A and as I get back

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Speaker 1: to playing, you know, does it hurt the Portland's Does

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Speaker 1: it hurt the Memphis Grizzlies. Yeah, but three and a

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Speaker 1: half games up, with like eight games to play, if

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Speaker 1: you can't close the deal, you didn't deserve to be

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs anyway. UM, I don't love the fact

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Speaker 1: that they're waiting two months. I think if you're gonna

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Speaker 1: play these preliminary games, you can play them earlier in July.

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Speaker 1: I do think the product will be better because of

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Speaker 1: the kind of ramp up to the playoffs that they're

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Speaker 1: gonna build. I wonder what the ratings will be like

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Speaker 1: going up against football. But we all, I think most

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Speaker 1: of us knew the NBA would eventually be back. It

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Speaker 1: was just in what former fashion, and you know, look,

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Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be in interesting. Maybe the reason they're

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Speaker 1: delaying is because what they really want is to play

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Speaker 1: in home arenas. And though they're setting up the bubble,

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Speaker 1: there is the outside shot the conference Finals. Maybe NBA

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Speaker 1: Finals get played in Arena. If if we pull out

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Speaker 1: of the coronavirus quarantine better than expected. That said, who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be happy about basketball being back? Um, But here's

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Speaker 1: what I want to do this week. T J Hushmansa

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Speaker 1: is my guest. He's form Pro Bowl wide receiver with

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals. He's got an amazing story. We'll talk some basketball,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk some protests, and we'll talk about the life

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Speaker 1: of t J. Hushman Zada. Did you know he don't

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Speaker 1: dealt drugs? Did you know he dropped out of high school?

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Speaker 1: Did you know that when he's at Oregon State they

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Speaker 1: win eleven and one and kicked the crap out of

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Speaker 1: Notre Dame. You're about to find out. Here's my guest,

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Speaker 1: t J. Hush Benzata. Be sure to catch the live

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Speaker 1: edition of The Doug gott Leap Show weekdays at three

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Speaker 1: p m. East are noon Pacific on Fox Sports Radio

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Speaker 1: and the I Heart Radio. Ah app, Let's welcome in.

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Speaker 1: He's the one, He's the only. T J houshman Zada. Whosh,

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Speaker 1: how are you I'm doing, good man? How are you

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Speaker 1: good man? I want to ask you. I got a

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Speaker 1: bunch of things to get to and I want to

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Speaker 1: try and allow you to tell your own kind of

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Speaker 1: personal story, which I find to be one of the

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Speaker 1: most fascinating ones in sports. Um, but let's let's start

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Speaker 1: with what everyone's talking about, which is these these protests

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Speaker 1: and as well, we'll kind of detail as you tell

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Speaker 1: your story, like you weren't always on the right side

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Speaker 1: of the law. You weren't always uh the father and

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Speaker 1: former superstar NFL player you are today? When when I

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Speaker 1: say police, as a black man who grew up mostly

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Speaker 1: in California, but in other parts of the country as well, Um,

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Speaker 1: how do you feel when you view people protesting the

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Speaker 1: police and their treatment specifically of African Americans. Ah, many

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Speaker 1: different layers talked that, and I can just speak from experience.

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Speaker 1: Number one. UM, my brother, he he got arrested when

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Speaker 1: he was in the ninth grade, about team fourteen years old.

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Speaker 1: He got out when he was twenty three or twenty four.

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Speaker 1: First assince, I've never been in trouble as a friend

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Speaker 1: and my brother got arrested for our robbery, had a

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Speaker 1: friend get arrested for attempt to murder. He's white Mexican,

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Speaker 1: but he looks like when they arrested my brother, they

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Speaker 1: rushed his ass up, ruffed his ass up. My brother

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Speaker 1: just arrested. They just walked him up the house. And

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Speaker 1: this is attempt to murder. They just walk him out, No,

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Speaker 1: rested him up. Nothing, even to this day, to this day,

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Speaker 1: I get pulled over. It's a problem. Like I mean

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Speaker 1: the last time I got pulled over, and part of

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Speaker 1: it was my I didn't stop completely at the stop sign.

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Speaker 1: My son was in the back seat said he was

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Speaker 1: about I literally was five feet from my house right

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Speaker 1: the pull over, get pulled over by the sheriff and

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Speaker 1: literally walks up with his hand on his gun, like, bro,

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Speaker 1: I know I did that, but my son's in the

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Speaker 1: back city sterp made a huge deal called back up,

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Speaker 1: they pulled guns and I'm like, dude, what are you

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Speaker 1: guys doing? Like I live right here, what are you

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Speaker 1: guys doing? And So it's a problem. It's a problem.

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Speaker 1: It needs to be addressed. It's going to take time, um,

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Speaker 1: but but it's something that we as black men have

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Speaker 1: dealt with forever. So if you kind of get used

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Speaker 1: to it, and it's sad that you get used to

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Speaker 1: it because it happens on a regular basis for the

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Speaker 1: most part. Yeah. See, I you know, I always thought

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Speaker 1: and again, you know, like our backgrounds are different. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've gotten in trouble before, you know, with the with

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Speaker 1: the law. But I I've always thought that the cop

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Speaker 1: thing was a power trip thing, right that you get

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Speaker 1: you get the guy who you know, the guy who

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Speaker 1: becomes a cop. Lot of them are guys that they

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Speaker 1: want to They get to handle a gun, they get

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Speaker 1: to be in charge, they get to be boss man,

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Speaker 1: if you will. I never, I never, because I it's

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Speaker 1: really hard to see yourself in somebody else's shoes, experienced

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Speaker 1: it through, you know, a black man's shoes, which I cannot.

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Speaker 1: I was just that's what I That's what I assumed.

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Speaker 1: Has it changed? Has it evolved that you're saying it hasn't? Right,

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Speaker 1: It's still this is now with you with your son.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't changed since this happened, probably about about three

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Speaker 1: weeks before the coronavirus, before the lockdown, the quarantine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's my daughter. She was a sophomore in college. She

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Speaker 1: was a sophomore in high school. I never forget, never

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Speaker 1: forget it. I was still driving at the school and

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Speaker 1: I would just get up, put a Vidie on drop off,

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Speaker 1: come home, the same police officer pulling me over like

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Speaker 1: six times in two weeks. Share not the share, And

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Speaker 1: the last time, I tell you, I was so angry

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Speaker 1: I went up to the share station. He kept pulling

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Speaker 1: me over that he said I had windows sit on

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Speaker 1: my car. Well, when I go to the shaff station,

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Speaker 1: the guys but oh, my son has windows it on

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Speaker 1: his car. We all have. The shirt pulls you over.

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Speaker 1: He's being at a hole for window tint. The same

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Speaker 1: guy just kept pulling it over, the same guy, and

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Speaker 1: I think he wanted me to go off on them,

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Speaker 1: which I did, but I think he might have wanted

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Speaker 1: me to take it a little further. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I will tell you that when I moved to California,

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Speaker 1: the first time I was working for CBS, I had

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Speaker 1: an Audie and that I bought from a buddy of

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Speaker 1: mine in Oklahoma, and it had tinted window tint on

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Speaker 1: the front and I kept we kept getting pulled over

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Speaker 1: for it. Finally we took it off and it was

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Speaker 1: like one of those things like what are you what

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Speaker 1: are you doing? Um? I never really understood it. On

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Speaker 1: the other hand, when I got pulled over. You know,

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Speaker 1: they might not have been nice to me, but it

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Speaker 1: wasn't like I felt unsafe, right, Like there's a difference

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Speaker 1: between everybody getting pulled over for the same thing and

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Speaker 1: how it makes you feel right. And that's that's really

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Speaker 1: kind of what it's about. What it's it's the it's

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Speaker 1: the feeling of like, hey man, you're just you're you're

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Speaker 1: acting as if you're harassing me and trying to hide

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Speaker 1: behind the yes. Yes. It was like it really felt

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Speaker 1: like a harassment and it was like to the point

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Speaker 1: where I was and I was frustrated, and it was

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Speaker 1: like the same guy, I really like you recognized my

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Speaker 1: car by now, bro, it's like pulling me up when

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Speaker 1: it seems like every day. Um yeah, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was ridiculous. And I went up to the like, I said,

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Speaker 1: the share station says something about it, and oh I

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Speaker 1: didn't put it over again. What coincidence I've had this.

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Speaker 1: I've had this thought and I've shared done the radio show,

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Speaker 1: which is like look all of this. We're all sitting

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Speaker 1: here saying like, you know, Kaepernick had a point, right,

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Speaker 1: Kaepernick and Eric Reid had a point. But my issue

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Speaker 1: with Kaepernick is like Look, this is a movement where

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Speaker 1: even cops are now taking a knee. That's the symbolic gesture.

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Speaker 1: Uh that that calling Kaepernick took. I'm just wondering why

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Speaker 1: he hasn't made himself into a visible leader of this

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Speaker 1: portion of the movement. You know, Doug, I don't think

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Speaker 1: we and when I say we as people, I don't

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Speaker 1: think we can force our viewpoint onto Kaepernick. Like you said,

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Speaker 1: be a visible figure. He chooses to operate in the dark,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, into the background, and for him, that's

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Speaker 1: what he sees faying like. And I think we got

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Speaker 1: to get away from because this is what we want

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Speaker 1: somebody to do or be. That's not how he's gonna operate.

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Speaker 1: As long as he's trying to exact change, whether he's

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Speaker 1: in the front or the background, he's still trying to

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Speaker 1: get the same thing done. I think we got to

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Speaker 1: get away from. You need to be in front, you

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Speaker 1: need to be saying exactly because he said what he

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Speaker 1: was doing and what he was trying to get accomplished

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Speaker 1: in the reasons why, whether the front or the background,

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Speaker 1: I believe it should have been enough, because we can't

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Speaker 1: force anybody to be something that they're not. He probably

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Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable doing that. He probably didn't feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: nil in it, but he felt he had an obligation

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Speaker 1: to do it and he did it. And so because

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Speaker 1: he hasn't been at the forefront, I don't see it

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Speaker 1: as a problem, but I know people that do, and

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why T. J. Hushman's ada um. It's

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Speaker 1: a it's a it's an interesting way of looking at it.

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Speaker 1: I've experienced basketball teams where you there's guys that are

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Speaker 1: supposed to be leaders that can't be leaders. I do

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Speaker 1: think that's one of the things that haunted him when

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Speaker 1: he was a quarterback, though, is that he's just not

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Speaker 1: comfortable being that sort of visible leader. Right. If you

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Speaker 1: remember the first time he lost his job at the Niners,

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Speaker 1: there was the talk of, well, he's quiet, he's got

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Speaker 1: his headphones on all the time. He's not really a

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Speaker 1: raw rock, get behind this sort of guy. And I

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Speaker 1: do think that is his personality. But it is part

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Speaker 1: of what hurt him when he was with the Niners.

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Speaker 1: Is that at least fair Yeah, that's a fair or something.

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Speaker 1: If it's quarterbacks, you have to communicate and there's times

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Speaker 1: you gotta and lessons, grab the bull by the horns

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Speaker 1: and take over and be that extra coach on the field,

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Speaker 1: and just the things you may not be comfortable doing.

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Speaker 1: And his personality can probably be assets. I'm just not

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Speaker 1: how I percent comfortable doing this or doing that, and

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Speaker 1: that's okay. We in the media now that I'm in

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Speaker 1: the media, and even as a player, we always try

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Speaker 1: to make our better players, especially your quarterbacks, the leaders

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Speaker 1: of the team. Some of them don't have the personality

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Speaker 1: and then try to lead, and guys don't follow because

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Speaker 1: they see that, they sense that, they feel that, and

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Speaker 1: so is that Kaethonic. I don't know Kaethonic very well.

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Speaker 1: I met him once, um very pleasant, the conversation flowed.

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Speaker 1: It was Verry. I thought he was a cool dude.

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Speaker 1: But when you start getting into this element, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And maybe he doesn't feel comfortable in this situation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he just doesn't want all the attention on him. Who

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Speaker 1: knows what it is, but he was ahead of his

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Speaker 1: time with this and what he did. It was No,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't just a police brutality. It's just been going

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Speaker 1: on better. It doesn't happen all the time, but when

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Speaker 1: it does happen, black men are losing their lives and

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Speaker 1: that has because obviously to tell you, I don't have

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Speaker 1: the best attitude when it comes to stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: and that easily could be me because Mike Temple will

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Speaker 1: get the best. Then I got four kids and then

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Speaker 1: I can't have that going on because I lose my temper.

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Speaker 1: And once you said these guys are on the power,

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Speaker 1: that that has to stop. Man, Like, it's a life.

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Speaker 1: You get one life. When it's over, it's over. There's

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Speaker 1: will do over. There's no going back. You can't plug

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Speaker 1: yourself in the wall and reach like it's over there.

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Speaker 1: So like the beautiful part about being in California and

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Speaker 1: it's happening in California is you grow up with so

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Speaker 1: many different races, so many different people that we learn

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Speaker 1: to get them wrong. With everybody's sports obviously teaches you

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Speaker 1: that becau there's so many different wations, talk from different

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Speaker 1: background and so if it has to stop and again attacking, yes,

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Speaker 1: would you want to see them at the forefront, But

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Speaker 1: I'm okay what you've been in the background because you're

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Speaker 1: trying to exact change, you're actually putting in money, You

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Speaker 1: sweat your tears, your time and so that that has

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Speaker 1: to say something has to be in a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I I I think the the other issue and obviously

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Speaker 1: if you get stereotyped in terms of you. I think

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Speaker 1: this is the big issue I believe with cops and

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Speaker 1: and this is where I would support them, is any

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Speaker 1: time you roll up to anybody's car nowadays, you have

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Speaker 1: no idea who's packing, right, Like, but part of that

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Speaker 1: is I don't know what you talked about your attitude, Like,

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Speaker 1: what would your attitude be like if you were a cop?

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Speaker 1: And anytime you roll up for a guy rolling the

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Speaker 1: stop sign, you have no idea on that window you

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Speaker 1: knock on? What's you know what that guy has as

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Speaker 1: in his glove box? Right now? They're supposed to be

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Speaker 1: trained and know how to deal with it and have

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Speaker 1: better bedside manner. And I also think there's a good

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Speaker 1: element to it to which you know, uh, whether whoever

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Speaker 1: you are, you know, just because a black man is

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Speaker 1: the guy you're pulling over, that doesn't mean he's more

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Speaker 1: likely to have a gun than anybody else, right, I'd

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Speaker 1: I'd love to see the stats that say that, because

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Speaker 1: I don't believe they exist, right, I think white guys

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Speaker 1: are actually more likely to have a firearm license or otherwise. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I think that's a that's a big issue to

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Speaker 1: it as well, which is like you don't know who's packing,

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Speaker 1: and you know, my attitude wouldn't be good when I

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Speaker 1: have if I have to knock on somebody's window and

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Speaker 1: ask them to give me license registration, and I don't

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Speaker 1: know what what what's gonna happen when they roll down

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Speaker 1: that window. On the other hands, how they how they

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Speaker 1: deal with it? All right, let's let's let's get let's

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Speaker 1: let's get to your story, okay, um, because I it's

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Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating things and generally I reserved

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Speaker 1: this pod. We talked about Hoop and I know you

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Speaker 1: love Hoop and we'll talk about that something before. We've

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Speaker 1: been ad But you didn't finish high school. You become

264
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Speaker 1: an NFL star, Like, how does that? Your your story

265
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Speaker 1: is a movie? How does that happen? A bit of luck?

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe somebody's gonna hear this and they're gonna make

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Speaker 1: a movie out of who knows. I don't know. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's uh really, I don't know, man. It's crazy with

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Speaker 1: like me and he's like my best friends. Uh, They've

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Speaker 1: been my best friend since some since elementary, majority since

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Speaker 1: junior high, couple since high school. These are the dudes

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Speaker 1: that I'm still cool with this day. Um, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it's just growing up. Um Mohammad was on drugs. She

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Speaker 1: was a crackhead. Uh drink a lot on the first

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Speaker 1: and the fifteenth, and anybody from the hood and with

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Speaker 1: the first and fifteenth what those days represent and so

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Speaker 1: uh it was just right right pay day or government

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Speaker 1: pay day whatever, that's when that's when you got her check.

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Speaker 1: Ye had the first and the fifteenth, Yeah, because so

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Speaker 1: the first in the fifteenth, we just knew we was

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Speaker 1: gonna get a little money here and there about five

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Speaker 1: and the rest is gonna go to the drugs and alcohol.

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Speaker 1: And so that's just that was the way life. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back to the police really good does When the

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Speaker 1: police didn't come to our neighborhood, it was like a

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Speaker 1: boring day, Like I looked forward to the police coming

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Speaker 1: to the neighborhood, knock the dope boy running from the police,

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Speaker 1: like that was exciting for me. When they didn't have

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Speaker 1: and it felt like today's boring. So that that's how

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Speaker 1: I grew up. Like when they came to the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: and how the dope boys start running. I was as

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Speaker 1: a kid seeing that it was excitement and when that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen, it was like today was born. So that's

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Speaker 1: another thing. But yeah, my mom, she didn't emphasize school.

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Speaker 1: And my mom had four kids and the youngest one

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Speaker 1: is the only one of us to graduate, and so

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Speaker 1: school wasn't emphasized. Nothing was really emphasized. We could kind

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Speaker 1: of go as we please. I was in between my

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Speaker 1: mother and my grandmother. My grand brother was at was

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Speaker 1: a lot straight, very strict, and so obviously we didn't

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Speaker 1: want to be there. We wanted to be with my

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Speaker 1: mother because we got to do what we wanted to do.

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Speaker 1: And so leaving with my mom, I just didn't go

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Speaker 1: to school. Out of high school, I learned probably two

305
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Speaker 1: and a half years total. Um, I didn't play football

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Speaker 1: until my senior year in high school. Grades came out.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I wasn't eligible, so I said, why am I

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Speaker 1: going to school? I can't play sports, and yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was it. Man walked on when he played at Juco.

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Speaker 1: And once I got to Juco, I had a really

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Speaker 1: good first year and the coach told me you got

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Speaker 1: a chance to play Division one. A lot of schools

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Speaker 1: are going to recruit you met your g D. So

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Speaker 1: after my first year at JUCO at three those it,

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Speaker 1: I went and got my g D. Um, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I Michael found and she cold. I really did. I

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Speaker 1: did well enough to get my aim. Um. I liked

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Speaker 1: always thinking. I tell people this, Um, I just didn't

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Speaker 1: apply myself. I like to look at myself as an

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Speaker 1: intelligent person. I just did not apply myself. And so

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Speaker 1: when I decided to apply myself, school came right or

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Speaker 1: easy for me. Um. Let me go back to when

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Speaker 1: you're in Why are you in Oklahoma City? My mom?

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Speaker 1: I was living with my grandmother, and my mom met

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Speaker 1: a guy and he went to Oklahoma City and we

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Speaker 1: hopped on the Greyhound I would probably say six months

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Speaker 1: after she was there and moved up on the city.

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Speaker 1: How old are you? I was probably twelve or thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Get that's when I really got into the streets. Really

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Speaker 1: wasn't Oklahoma City, believe it or not. I met a

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Speaker 1: guy named Sean and we started shooting dice and shooting

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Speaker 1: we only had twenty dollars each in a dice game

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Speaker 1: de evolved into some complete dels and then that's when

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Speaker 1: I got into the streets. And when I came back

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Speaker 1: to California, I pretty much stayed in the streets. Okay, anyway,

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Speaker 1: so you're using I know what you're talking about, but

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Speaker 1: as your listening to pod, we've had this conversation before. Okay,

338
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Speaker 1: so you're shooting dice and what happens? How does it

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Speaker 1: evolve into something else? What was that mean? It was

340
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Speaker 1: just shoot dice? And again, where's your shooting dice for

341
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Speaker 1: a dollar? Dollar? Hills? Anybody there? The gig goes back

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Speaker 1: and forth. Nobody kind of gets it upper hand because

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Speaker 1: probably wants to bet enough money to lose their twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars extremely quick. And so and when I say getting

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Speaker 1: the streets, you go cell drugs. So we've combined our

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Speaker 1: money and was like, let's see how much we can

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Speaker 1: do with this. And then eventually we kind of stood

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Speaker 1: up and went our separate way, but stayed friends. And again,

349
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Speaker 1: I was only an Alklahoma for about eight months. And

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Speaker 1: when I was in Oklahoma, literally I probably with the

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Speaker 1: school and that was the beginning of the end, because

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Speaker 1: I believe so I wasn't twelve, it was thirteen going

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Speaker 1: into my freshman year in high school, they go to

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Speaker 1: school in Oklahoma. I literally registered for school and probably

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Speaker 1: went to school of three days. So how do you

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Speaker 1: how do you? How do you like? Again? And like

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Speaker 1: you don't You're not like selling anybody out now because

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Speaker 1: it's thirty years later. How do you like? How do you? Okay,

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Speaker 1: we pull you got forty bucks? How do you go

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Speaker 1: get enough money to sell? Like? How does it work

361
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Speaker 1: to go get drugs and sell drugs? Like? How does

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Speaker 1: that happen? So it's very simple. Um, so you call

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Speaker 1: it a double up. Guys in the who you give

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Speaker 1: them forty dollars, I give you eighty dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: crack cocaine, And why do they give? Why do they give?

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Speaker 1: Why do they give you eighty dollars with a cocaine crack?

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Speaker 1: If if you only give the forty bucks, it's that's

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Speaker 1: it's a double up. They trying to help me get going.

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Speaker 1: They basically helped me. And you you go and you

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Speaker 1: get eight dollars, you sell it yourself. You and Sean

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Speaker 1: sell it. Yeah, me and Sean sell it ourselves. And

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Speaker 1: I mean literally selting like third minute. So we were like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, she I was just says, so when

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Speaker 1: when you got a six team, now sixteen from when

375
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Speaker 1: you cut up crack cocaine, if you cut it up, well,

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Speaker 1: a six team can make you like a hundred nine

377
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Speaker 1: hundred bucks. So you go get a six team and

378
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Speaker 1: you do that and then you split the money. You

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Speaker 1: do it again, then you go you step away because

380
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: now we both got two or three hundred dollars and

381
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Speaker 1: now you can kind of get your rolls sick in

382
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Speaker 1: the six teams back then went for a hunter bucks

383
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Speaker 1: And that was years ago obviously, And so yeah, I

384
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Speaker 1: mean it was so many close encounters man, like getting

385
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Speaker 1: shot at police coming to raid our spot and here

386
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Speaker 1: I am fourteen years old moving around like I'm a

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Speaker 1: girl man, and it just was so crazy, like but

388
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Speaker 1: that was exciting for me. But looking back on it, like,

389
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Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine my kids having to grow through that.

390
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: But that was Parker. Of course with me growing up

391
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Speaker 1: that was normal. I thought it was normal. I knew

392
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Speaker 1: I need it right, but I didn't think I lived

393
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Speaker 1: that bad. And so I've met some friends that had

394
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Speaker 1: somebody and you go to the house and they're like,

395
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Speaker 1: oh my god, this dude gotta mention and now I

396
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 1: look back at that house and like, is that a house?

397
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Speaker 1: How do you know how to cut it? I don't know,

398
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 1: just kind of learned. Do you see Brin cut it

399
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,359
Speaker 1: when they give it to you. And then you just

400
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 1: kind of learned, you know, you just kind of learned.

401
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: And then they just evolved. As when I came back

402
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Speaker 1: to California, I didn't really do as much crack. I

403
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: just started selling we eat. Okay, so I want to

404
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: get to that, and I want to get that a second.

405
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,080
Speaker 1: But okay, how do you how do you not get caught?

406
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 1: Like this seems like I don't. I don't know. I

407
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know. I have no idea. I would always and

408
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 1: I would always tell people like I'm just too smart.

409
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Speaker 1: And I know that sounds like yeah, that's what they

410
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: all say, but I don't. I don't know why. Again,

411
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: how did I make it to the league? I just

412
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,719
Speaker 1: got lucky. Somebody was watching over me. It was just

413
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,160
Speaker 1: meant for me to have these tri tribulations and not

414
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Speaker 1: be affected and I mean get caught. Get I mean

415
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Speaker 1: I was shot at and people next to me again

416
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Speaker 1: shot and nothing happened to me. I mean, it was

417
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Speaker 1: just a bit of luck. Man, really to be honest

418
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Speaker 1: with you. So when you move back, you moved to Barstowe, right, Yeah,

419
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: moved to Barstone, my grandson. My mother stayed in Oklahoma

420
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Speaker 1: we call it Gray Hang back to California and through

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Speaker 1: my grandmother, my grandmother very very very religious Jehovah wouldness

422
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Speaker 1: the entire life. Um. So like when we come back

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Speaker 1: to California, went to Barstow. Uh friends, because I had

424
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: my mother would be between Barstow in l A. But

425
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Speaker 1: we would be with our grandmother, We be with our mother.

426
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: We'd be back and forth. And so I had friends

427
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 1: of Barstow, and so as soon as I got there,

428
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,760
Speaker 1: it was like, what's up on me? I need the body?

429
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 1: Is I wanted? We gotta get in the streets and

430
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 1: so like they're my childhood friends. And so I just

431
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 1: started doing the same thing, minus the crackt cocaine and

432
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 1: just went to weed. I was a little older, understood

433
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: it a little more. Um. Yeah. But the crazy thing is,

434
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: and I will say that I've never gone a drug

435
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,639
Speaker 1: in my life. Man, I never smoked anything today in

436
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: my life. I might drink once a year, and it

437
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 1: could be because my mom doing so much. It's just

438
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: I would never do it. Um. Okay, so you get so,

439
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: how did you get from you're selling weed in Barstow? Right,

440
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: how do you how do you get from? Like? So,

441
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,400
Speaker 1: how big did it get? Like the biggest it got

442
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: in Barstow? Is what I mean. I always have money,

443
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: I will say that. I mean like I always had

444
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: a nice check could change. I'm talking thousands always always.

445
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: I mean I I was doing all right, but I

446
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: was I ever and you and never. I was never

447
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: one of those big dope boys. Real I had this

448
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: and that. I mean I had to cut the Supreme six.

449
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,239
Speaker 1: Also mcclaims, I didn't even have dating, um, but I

450
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: always had a few thousand dollars for sure. During this

451
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 1: entire time you're growing up, Okay, so cal to Oklahoma

452
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: City to Barstow? Did you were you playing sports? You're

453
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: just hanging out shooting dice? But what were you doing?

454
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: We we obviously growing up in our time, we would

455
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: go to the park and play basketball. We would play

456
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: uh football at the park where you can't even use

457
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 1: this term anymore, but when we called it, it will

458
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 1: smear the queer. You throw the ball up, the guy

459
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: gets to every ghost topples. We would play those type

460
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: of games. I was always a sports fan, so I've

461
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: always watched every sport. Huge fan of box and everybody

462
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: knows that football, basketball. I just got into baseball six

463
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: seven years ago because of my kids. But I've always

464
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: been a huge sports fans, and so I think mentally

465
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 1: just watching the game. I've always been a pretty good

466
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: at movie. I was pretty much good every sport, at

467
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 1: least in my eyes. I was. And I think that's

468
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 1: part of the reason athletes are good, because you believe

469
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: you are good. Um. Yeah. And then just I went

470
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,760
Speaker 1: out to the football team, the coach coach Menars, the

471
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: n c ol Menars, the Mexican New Big Do defensive linement.

472
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: He didn't take no ship, so he would yell at us.

473
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: I would yell back. He did keep the s out

474
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: of here, and I would buck up tween me. He

475
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 1: would bucked up like t J, don't get your ass

476
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,959
Speaker 1: beat out here. And I wasn't used to that type

477
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 1: of I just wasn't use that type of leadership, that

478
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: voice that you're not gonna run over me, You're going

479
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: to be disciplined, you're gonna have some respect for yourself

480
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: and your team. I just wasn't used to that, and

481
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: so I couldn't play because we would class all the time.

482
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: I went off to practice practice, two days, we get

483
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: into it, I'm off the team. And then finally going

484
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: into my senior year, I was like, if I want

485
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: to play, I'm gonna have to listen to the coach.

486
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 1: Menars just yell at me, and he got at me

487
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: a few times. He's seen that. I kept coming back

488
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: and the rest of history kept playing. Were you always

489
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: a wide receiver? No, I was a running back in

490
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: high school. I was a running back in the dB

491
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 1: in high school and it was my choice to move

492
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: the receiver when I went uh Sirito's junior Thomas. Because

493
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: I always just watching TV. I thought all the running

494
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: backs were big. I thought they were all bigger to me,

495
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:37,959
Speaker 1: And as soon as I get to Siritos, I'm like, oh,

496
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,479
Speaker 1: I'd be the biggest running back here. But I had

497
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: already made my mind up that I was set a

498
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: play receiver. And so go to three those college and

499
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm a receiver. Wait, how did you? But how do you?

500
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: How did you pick Serrito's college like Barstow drop out

501
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: of high school? How did you decide like Srito's is

502
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 1: the place I want to go and play football. So

503
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: the head coach that I told about the n C

504
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 1: menares he played at Serrito's UM left Serritos went to

505
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: Nebraska UM. So when he played at Serritos, he went

506
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,160
Speaker 1: and coached at Serritos for a year. And my best friend,

507
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: his name is Kush. And the funny thing is he

508
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: don't smoke. As just his nickname. I have no idea

509
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: why his parents nicknamed him couch but breakfast that he

510
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,880
Speaker 1: doesn't smoke. Um. He was one of the top receivers

511
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: in the state of California senior year. He didn't qualify,

512
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: so he went to Serrios. What coach Miners wanted him

513
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: to come to Serritos, and I'm like, we always together.

514
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 1: There's no way you're going to Serritos and I'm staying here.

515
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: I'm going with you. So I went with Kush to

516
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: Cerritos because they wanted him. I was just a tag

517
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 1: along friend that came along with Cush. Coach Miners is

518
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: supposed to coach there, and that's why we went. He

519
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: ended up taking a job at the University of Idaho.

520
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: So we think we're gonna go be playing for coach

521
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 1: menars again, he leaves, he bounced as he's gone, and

522
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: oh it was just like, oh, here we go, and

523
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: so yeah, it worked out. I got lucky. Kusha, I

524
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: would say, like a week before it's for our first

525
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: game of Sritos commage. He broke his foot. I was

526
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 1: third string. Kush broke his foot. He was a starter,

527
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: his backup lion ya I forget LANs last name. He

528
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: got arrested. Oh, first game I started, first played the

529
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: game my bomb. Somebody like eighty yards. How amazing is that?

530
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: Like somebody else gets like all this ship you did

531
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: and somebody else gets arrested, ends up allowing you to

532
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,719
Speaker 1: play and the ball out right like uh like just

533
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: that it's a like a halo that's around you. Um so,

534
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Oregon State recruits you did. Dennis Rickson recruits you himself.

535
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: Was there a wide receiver's coach? How did you end

536
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: up in court? Allis so? Coming out of Juco I was.

537
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 1: I was studying how they recruited. It was probably a

538
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: top three recruit the country. Um myself, it's a kid

539
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: named del Von Flowers from el Comto that went to

540
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: Arizona State. And I believe another guy named was Aye Williams.

541
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: I believe he went to Arkansas. I believe that was

542
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 1: his name. I could be wrong, but anyway, I was recruited,

543
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: I had. I was recruited by a lot of teams

544
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: in a Pack twelve, pretty much everybody UM minus U C,

545
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: l A. Stanford. But I was recruited by pretty much

546
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: all the schools and Patanna are now the Pack twelve,

547
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: some SEC schools, UM schools in the Big East. And

548
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: so who recruited me at Oregon State was a guy

549
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: named Mike Johnson. I believe he's at Penn State now.

550
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: I know maybe Misssippi State, Mississippi State, but I don't know.

551
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: Worry that Michael Johnson, He's a learned recruited be his

552
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: son j. Penn State has signs a quarterback now, and

553
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: so he was on the staff with Mike Ridy. Mike

554
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: Rady leaves and I believe goes to the Chargers, Erica

555
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: gets the job, keeps Mike Johnson on. So now Mike

556
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: Johnson and Eric Yarbor recruiting me. He was not a

557
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: receiver coach of the l A Rown and so my

558
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: juco coach, I didn't know what to do. I didn't

559
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: know where to go. He was like, they just hired

560
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 1: in ecrups and they're gonna throw the ball incoming from

561
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: Miami blah blah blah. And so that's why I went

562
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 1: and crazy think it was like fifteen of us from

563
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: uh Juco. We also goot recruiting trip at the same time.

564
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: We were all Juco, all Americans, and we all went

565
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: to Oregon State and turned it around. In a handful

566
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: of a handful of us, we end up playing in

567
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: the week. By the way, Mike Johnson that was his Uh,

568
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: that was he was a He played for the Shreveport Pirates,

569
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: the Orlando Predators, the British Columbia Lions in the Canadian

570
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,240
Speaker 1: Football League. Uh. He was a JUCO guy himself, Arizona

571
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: State to Mesa Community College and then you know, now

572
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: he's last year he was with UM I believe Mississippi

573
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,520
Speaker 1: State as their wide receiver. Yeah, but he's been he was.

574
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: He was with the Niners as well. He's the Niners

575
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator one year. UM kind of ironically enough, Okay,

576
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: so you get there, you get to organsta you all.

577
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: The first time you met Chad Johnson was where and

578
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: when I met saw prior to prior to getting Arizon,

579
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: I mean the Oregon State. So our receiver coach, who's

580
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: the one who started this work crazy that everybody's doing now,

581
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: Charles Collins, the OG we called him co C. He

582
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: he coached at Santa Monica. That's where Chad went to

583
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: juco at him and Steve Smith. Eric Yarber, who's the

584
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: l A guy, went to Crenshaw High School. Co set

585
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: went to Magnel Arts. They were childhood friends. Yards introduces

586
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: me to co see coc coach Chad trains Chad and

587
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: so we linked up, uh that summer prior to we

588
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 1: head an off the Organ State. What was he like? Oh,

589
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: and you know what's Wenny? Let me let me get

590
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,719
Speaker 1: your story. How check got to organ stays crazy. How

591
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 1: things worked. We had a goner football team of receiver

592
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: named mine Gerald Jones went to El Camino. He got

593
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: kicked off the team for stealing somebody's uh DJ equipment.

594
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: The scholarship came open and they gave it to Chad.

595
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: That's how Chad got there. But Chad has always been

596
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: from me. Chad is a quiet dude man, real chill

597
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: um great dude like Chad is one of the nice

598
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: people you meet will give you the shirt office back

599
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: a thousand times that you asked him a thousand times.

600
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 1: Probably too nice, but very quiet, and then you put

601
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: a camera in space or the competition gets going and

602
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, I thought he was quiet

603
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: and so but initially he's just real quiet, real chill,

604
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: just working, trying to get better. Like when I saw Chat,

605
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: I was like, he was like the best ship I

606
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: had ever seen. The way he moved, it was like WHOA.

607
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: But his personality, he was real chill until up the

608
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: competition started or a camera came around. Did did anybody

609
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: in the organ state did they know about your upbringing?

610
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: About your background? Like did you ever tell anybody like, hey,

611
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: you know, I used to sell drugs up until like

612
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: I decided to be a football player. Now I don't

613
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: you know what, To be honest with me, I probably

614
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: yes and no. But in a lot of guys that

615
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to say, a lot I don't want

616
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: to assume. But that's like Paul, for the course, in

617
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: our neighborhoods, Like guys that you're gonna sell some weed,

618
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: You're gonna sell some crack here and there. That's the

619
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 1: only way to get money, you think you see, because

620
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: that's all you see. Like the dope boys growing up,

621
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: they got nice cars, they got all the pretty drills

622
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: you take. I want to be like someone so dlope

623
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 1: when I grow up. In you you see that, and

624
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: so you think that's the way to go because you

625
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: see nothing else. You don't see nobody getting up going

626
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: to work to be a doctor, going to work to

627
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,239
Speaker 1: be a lawyer, going towards laws. You don't see that,

628
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: at least I didn't. And so what you see, that's

629
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: what we aspire it to be. And so the gods

630
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: at Oregon state that the majority of them story is

631
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: very very similar to mine. They just didn't play in

632
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: the NFL, but everything else it's very very similar. So

633
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: when you tell that story, I'm when I tell my story,

634
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling the story of so many others minus the NFL,

635
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 1: because they've been through it already. You guys went eleven

636
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: in one, right, you beat you beat Notre Dame in

637
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: the Fiesta Bowl. Your only loss was a three point

638
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,879
Speaker 1: loss at Washington. What do you remember more the Washington loss?

639
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: With the Notre Dame win Washington last that I remember

640
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: it like yesterday our defense was See that's what we were.

641
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,479
Speaker 1: We were so good defensively that and we weren't rolling

642
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: on offense. Our defense kemp us in the game. But

643
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: I'll never forget it. I believe you'd hit us for

644
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: over two hundred fifty Russian and two hundred fifty passing.

645
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: Worst game our defense played all year. It was on

646
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: the road. It was extremely Now that's when they had

647
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,320
Speaker 1: Marcus tiot Sofa as a quarterback. Willie Hursts are running

648
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: back and we get the ball last, we drive the

649
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,879
Speaker 1: length of the field and we missed the field goal

650
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: to senate overtime. The only kick that field goal kick

651
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 1: I believe is in that's the miser. Wait, what was

652
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 1: the guy's name, like Ryan Seska. I believe that kicker

653
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 1: was Ryan. Correct, he made four extra points. Huh? Well,

654
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: that the only kicking miss tall year, I believe. Huh correct? Then, no,

655
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,279
Speaker 1: he know he missed three field goals. Three field goals

656
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: that year. He missed one extra point that year. Oh no,

657
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: wait wait two thousand, two thousand, two thousand one. Yeah,

658
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: you know he missed kill field goals. But he was

659
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: a very good kicker. That was his his sophomore year.

660
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: He made sixteen and nineteen field goal. Yeah, I mean

661
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: I and I remember that like it was yesterday, because

662
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:14,560
Speaker 1: in essence it predates UM playing in the National Championship

663
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: because you know how they did it that grin. I

664
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 1: felt we were the best team. We were sad, these

665
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: such as linemen were running four or five four six,

666
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: and offensively we could throw, we could run. I mean,

667
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: we could just do so much. But you know, it

668
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: was always going to be the Florida States, that Miami's

669
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: Oklahomas that were always we started. I don't we're un ranked.

670
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: We we started at the bottom, and so it was

671
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: you lose that game in Washington was so hard to

672
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: get picked the plan at nationally. At the time we

673
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 1: got picked the plan at the Yester Boat, they didn't

674
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: even know if it was gonna get picked the play

675
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 1: at because Washington was going to the Rose Bowl because

676
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,879
Speaker 1: they it was a three way tie and the Rose

677
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: Bowl could pick who they wanted to play in that

678
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: type of stuff between or a two way tied between

679
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: US and Aston because we beat Organ in the Civil War.

680
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: So it was just one of those things where we

681
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: we we thought, I felt we had a really really

682
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: good team, best team in the country. Um, but it's

683
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: all talk. You never really get a chance to prove it,

684
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: at least back to day, not the way you do today.

685
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: UM yeah, I'm I'm interested in that Notre Dame. Like

686
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,439
Speaker 1: you guys show up, you got what did you say,

687
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: fifteen Juko's fifteen Juko's at least yeah, at least right

688
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: like you Juco City. You guys have dudes for days

689
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: and you're at the Fiesta bo getting ready to played

690
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: Notre Dame and having gone to Notre Dame, I know

691
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: that like Notre Dame, there's a there's a level of

692
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,240
Speaker 1: confidence arrogance, right like you got the best of the best.

693
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: I gotta think at some point, very early on the game,

694
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 1: they might must have figured out this was this is

695
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 1: not a game a team that they really wanted any

696
00:37:52,800 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: part of. Early I don't know if uh coach Ericcept

697
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: was just trying to get us out for the game.

698
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 1: But so you're gonna when you do ball games. I

699
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 1: don't know if it's somewhere in basketball because it's marshmadness

700
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: things that you're playing so often, but the ball games

701
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: you have a banquet. And initially we were told that

702
00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: the teams were going to intermingle. It would be three

703
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 1: guys from another Dames, three guys from Morgan State, and

704
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: one coach at each table. That's initially what we were told.

705
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: So we get to the banquet and Coachurchson's they don't

706
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: want to do that. They want organ State on this side,

707
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: other Dame on this side. They they don't want to intermingle.

708
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: So here they think they're better than us. We're gonna

709
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: show these guys, and so we went into the game

710
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: like it was like they really thought they were better

711
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: than us. It's kind of what we're going through now.

712
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: It's like they went to Notre Dame, this prestige, who

713
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: here we are at all the Oregon State and I

714
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: really think they thought they were better than that. And

715
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: so watching their tape, it was like, they're not gonna

716
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: do anything on our defense, and that's what made us good.

717
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: It wasn't a office we're gonna put a point, but

718
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: our defense was so dominant because they were so fast

719
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 1: and and it was just one of those things like

720
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: we're probably gonna blow these guys up. Like literally, guys

721
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,800
Speaker 1: had bet like who was gonna get MPP And nobody

722
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: really played the second half because it was a blowout

723
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 1: at halftime. You know, it's interesting. Did at the time

724
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 1: did you know, Like I'm sure they people told you stories,

725
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: but like you didn't grow up playing football, and though

726
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: you're a fan of sports, wasn't like you really did

727
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: you know traditionally how bad organ State was and how

728
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 1: amazing what you guys are a part of. Was I mean,

729
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: you know, looking back up on it now, yes, at

730
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 1: the time though my first year there, um, I was

731
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 1: pretty much injured the whole year. But that was the

732
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: first winning season Organs State had had in thirty plus years,

733
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: and they made a huge deal about it. But any

734
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: athlete was saying, wherever we go, we think we're gonna win.

735
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: And so going to organ State, people like, why do

736
00:39:58,200 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: you going to organ State when you can go to USC?

737
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: Are you going large State when you can go here?

738
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: We're going in And that was just my mindset. If

739
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 1: we all go here, all these guys that I played

740
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: against a juco that I believe you really played. Yeah,

741
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: I mean by the way you guys out gained. Notre

742
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: Dame had seventeen yards rushing and that was that maybe

743
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: like her deep, but we had just the we probably

744
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,320
Speaker 1: had like seven dudes off that defense playing NFL maybe

745
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: more and this weathers be Terrell Roberts may be rest

746
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: in peace to Lawrence Grant, Dwan Everard's, Richard Siegler, Nick Barnett,

747
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 1: James Allen. That's seven. And you know, like we had

748
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 1: and I'm talking I'm talking about just playing a year

749
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: or two we here, and like we had a lot

750
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,919
Speaker 1: of guys from that defense. La Darius Jackson that's eight.

751
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: Like we had a lot of guys played and for

752
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: a long time and the se that played on that defense,

753
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: and so that's why our bread was buttered. We were

754
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: very good and very fast on defense. So you get

755
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: drafted in the seventh round? What was what was it

756
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: like leading up to the NFL draft in terms of

757
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: your own personal expectations. I was just training with coach Ce.

758
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: We just just meet him and chat. That's it. Nobody

759
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,919
Speaker 1: else us. Three couple people will come here, come train

760
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: with us every mote or for ware. Draft was so

761
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: hard um and was made for him. They couldn't take it.

762
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: And so my expectations, you know, training again, what did

763
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: I say? I thought Chad was the best seat right

764
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: ever seen, So training with him every day he's pushing

765
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: me on pushing him, he's making me better. Um, me

766
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: pushing him is making him better, but me watching him

767
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: is making me better. And so it was just us

768
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 1: every day. CO see his timing us in the forty

769
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, uh, I really thought I was going to

770
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: get drafted. I had been running extremely fast fort He's

771
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: always benefit athlete. I was fast my entire life until

772
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: I got to NFL, So I wasn't worried about the

773
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: testing part of it. I just wanted an opportunity. Especially

774
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: when you see guys that are supposed to get drafted

775
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 1: high come train with you and they can't do half

776
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: the things you're doing. You're like, oh, I'm for sure

777
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 1: going to get your after high because I just trained

778
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: with this guy. They got him as one of the

779
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: top receivers in the draft. And you just don't know

780
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: what you don't know. You think because you see this

781
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: guy and you know how you move and you know

782
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: how he was, it is it's gonna pay out for you.

783
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: And I was really naive to the whole process of

784
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: how it worked. Um pissed me off, but it is

785
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: what it is. It means. It still bothers me to

786
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: this day. Really I might even allowed to, Okay, what

787
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: part of it makes you pissy optimist? When I like

788
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: when I trained with guys that were drafted, Like if

789
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: you look at the first round, I can name every

790
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: receiver drafted in the first round, and only two of them,

791
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: in my opinion, had solid careers, really good careers, actually

792
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: can't even stay slide, very good careers. And it was

793
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,720
Speaker 1: six receivers draft in the first round my year, David Corner,

794
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: Rod Gardner, Santana Moss, Freddie Mitchell, Reggie Wayne on each

795
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 1: of them had really good careers. Reggie Wayne had a

796
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: great career, Santa Santanta Moss had a very good career.

797
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: Those other four And no disrespect to those guys, it

798
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: did happen. And so I mean Steve Smith was drafted

799
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: in the third round. He came out our year as well,

800
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: And so it was just one of those things where

801
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: but a lot of it is my mindset, my work ethic. Um,

802
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: if you want something, you gotta work to get it.

803
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: You gotta work, you you just gotta put the work in.

804
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: And I'm just a firm believer in that. And so

805
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: that's all I did was work, work, work, work, work, work, work, Work,

806
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: You get drafted in the seventh round, How did you

807
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: make the team? My mindset was this were is? I

808
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: remember this like it was just a first practice. And

809
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: granted I got into a fight my first practice in

810
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: NFL minicap, got in the fight. Um, I went out

811
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: to that first practice and people don't remember this. The

812
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: Bengals drafted Peter Work was the fourth pick the year

813
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 1: prior to myself and chat getting drafts to Bengals, and so,

814
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 1: in my opinion, Peter Work and Reggie Bush or the

815
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: two best college field pall players I've ever seen. So

816
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: I was excited. I walked off the field the first

817
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 1: day of practice and I said to myself, I got

818
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: on the phone with my girlfriend, who's now my wife. Oh,

819
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 1: I'm making this team. I'm in the best seat around

820
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:38,359
Speaker 1: the team. I probably wasn't, but I damn sure thought

821
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: I was after that first practice, and so I was

822
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 1: not concerned, but I knew I had to work. But

823
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,799
Speaker 1: my mindset was, after that first practice, there's nobody better

824
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: than be on this team, that receiver. So I'm gonna

825
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: be fine. And I believe having that mindset, those positive thoughts,

826
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:58,280
Speaker 1: it helps a lot a ton and when I trained

827
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: my gods. Topay, we trained the physical, but we trained

828
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: the mentor as well. Um, it took you. You had

829
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 1: your first two years were okay, your team was terrible,

830
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 1: it was a mess. Your third year you're injuredy, you

831
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: barely played. It wasn't until really your fourth year in

832
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:18,359
Speaker 1: the league that you that you made it right. And

833
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: so I know in your mind, like, yeah, forty one

834
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: catches your second year, and that's that's pretty good. But

835
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: to go all of a sudden seven time catches though,

836
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: really that those are all we getting our breast kicked.

837
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: Let's throw TJ in the game and so you know

838
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: you could get them all in the fourth quarters. Yeah, um, okay,

839
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: So what change Number one? I was healthy, I started

840
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,879
Speaker 1: doing yoga. Marvin Lewis and Hugh Jackson gave me an opportunity,

841
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: which is all I wanted. Marvin's first year was my

842
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: third year. Um again, like you said, I was hurt

843
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: and he basically let me know, you can't be hurt again.

844
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: He was always came at the club and the tub.

845
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 1: And the biggest thing for me was I met a

846
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: guy named Martin Manchard started doing yoga with him and

847
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: my help, I believe I was like one of the

848
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: first guys in the NFL going yoga, and I talked

849
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,399
Speaker 1: about it the time because I didn't have any more

850
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 1: muscle problems after that to the end of my career

851
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: when I stopped doing yoga like an idiot, and so

852
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: the yoga help me. Um, Peter work had a slight

853
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: factor in his leg in the New York Jets game.

854
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: He had to come out miss some weeks, and I

855
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: got an opportunity to play and never came out of

856
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: the lineup. Um, what why was like? Okay, I we

857
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: all know Carson Palmer is better than John Kittna. Okay,

858
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: we and the John Kitten obviously now an offensive coordinator

859
00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: with the Cowboys, right or a quarterback coach for the Cowboys. Okay.

860
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: But for people who don't like, okay, Carson Palmer, remember

861
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 1: he sat your your for the year you were hurt.

862
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: He sat, he read shirted that first year, and then

863
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: you're the year you blew up. It was with Carson Palmer,

864
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: who started I think thirteen of those games in his

865
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: second year. What what was it about you and Carson

866
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:04,319
Speaker 1: that allowed both of you, both of your careers to

867
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: take off at that moment. For me, it was opportunity.

868
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 1: But it was the trust Carson uh that we developed,

869
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: and it was initially unspoken. I think he saw that

870
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: I really knew what I was doing, that I understood

871
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: the offense because we were the same offense from Marma

872
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 1: came in and he kept Uh Bob a crafty as

873
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: the OC and so for offense was the same in

874
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 1: our offense wasn't easy. It was complicated. The receivers had

875
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: to know the protection. We had to know who they

876
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: were ideing as the MIC. We had to know who

877
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: the back of blocking if there was a mass detection

878
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: and staff like. We had to know all it is.

879
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: And as a quarterback, when you know a receiver sees

880
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 1: what you see and if they's lifted, I'm going to

881
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 1: break hot and I probably don't. The quarterback is going

882
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: to get hit in the back. He saw that I

883
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: was breaking hot when I wasn't supposed to because it

884
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: was Chad's responsibility and people always how did you go

885
00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:03,240
Speaker 1: from this amount of tetches. Because of this amount of catches,

886
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: my father, they were listening. So I would break hot

887
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 1: for Carson to getting went outlet and he started to

888
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: see that and I wasn't even a hot guy was

889
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: always at receiver, which was chast. We end up changing

890
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 1: it to me and me and Carson we were just

891
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: on the same page. We we had that unspoken bond

892
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: we're seeing the game from the same set of eyes,

893
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: and so it was like he just saw that early

894
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: on and he just started coming to me. It was

895
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,479
Speaker 1: times woun't say if they give us this coverage running

896
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: this route, if they played this running this route, we

897
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:39,439
Speaker 1: would just kind of make things up on a flight

898
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: during the game. And he trusted that I was going

899
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: to see what he was seeing and it worked out.

900
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: You know what's amazing is I don't know you're You're

901
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,760
Speaker 1: part of the turnaround organ State and then the turnaround

902
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 1: with the Bengals. They were the Bengal There were the

903
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: Bungles before you guys got there. You finally you get

904
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: to the playoffs, right, This is like your well is

905
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: it your fifth year in the end? Fellow? You guys

906
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 1: getting the playoffs? Right, Carson signs the biggest contract in

907
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: the history of the sport, and then Keemo van Olhofen

908
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,479
Speaker 1: rolls up on his leg. What do you remember about?

909
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: It was crazy because Carson and Chris Henry both got

910
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: hurt on the same flag. First played the game. We

911
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 1: probo see coach Bratt was was gonna attack them first

912
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 1: to that game. So they play a single high coverage,

913
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: which Pittsburgh does, but normally they're corner still over the top.

914
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: We got bomb them with slim Chris Henry may arrest

915
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: a pet. Carson threw a go out to slam slam

916
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: bomb them, called the ball and they both get hurt. Initially,

917
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: I just you didn't realize it because you're so excited

918
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,959
Speaker 1: the adrenaline hall playoff game. You don't you know he's down.

919
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: You think he's gonna come back in the game when

920
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: you see him bring the card out and you're like,

921
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: oh my god. But we all have conference in kidten

922
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: like kidding can play. People don't we're winning that game.

923
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,919
Speaker 1: At half time we're up, and so we still should

924
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 1: have won the game. But if Carson doesn't get hurt,

925
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 1: I truly believe we're the best team in the league.

926
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: We don't want I believe we don't want to see

927
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 1: Bowl because if I'm not mistaken, I believe that the

928
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,359
Speaker 1: year Pittsburgh went on a VCS, nobody could stop us.

929
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: But if you played single high va to get us

930
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: in our offense. If you watch football, we talked about this.

931
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: Our offense wasn't a gimmicky offense. We didn't stack guys,

932
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 1: we didn't go in motion. We lined up. You played

933
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: single high defense. For people that are listening, that's one

934
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: safety middle, cover one or covered three where me and

935
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 1: Chad were gonna kill you. And if you played too high,

936
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: that's covered two or covered four or some type of

937
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 1: invert or two man, whatever it may be. We would

938
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 1: just run the ball. And we were good enough where

939
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: we got open all the time in man coverage, and

940
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: if you saw us up we were good enough up

941
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: front with our offensive line that we could run the

942
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: ball on And so it was like a pick your

943
00:50:53,719 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: poison type of thing. And you could never be right

944
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: because me and Chad can always get open and for

945
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: the most part, we could always run the ball. Um.

946
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: If you could change one thing about your NFL career,

947
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: what would it be, Ah, just that I would have

948
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: been on the team that could have one point um

949
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:13,879
Speaker 1: towards the end of my career, I could have done

950
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: more for me personally. I would have been I wouldn't

951
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: have talked as much uh and it's more when I

952
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: say talked as much. I want to win so bad

953
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:35,240
Speaker 1: and I'm so competitive that I think it's into my career.

954
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 1: When I was in Seattle, like, I think I had

955
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: a reputation of being like this bad locker room guy

956
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: when I can't. Maybe I'm wrong. You guys say, a

957
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:46,759
Speaker 1: team that I've ever had, they all love, at least

958
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 1: I think they do. I've always been a team leader

959
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: every team I've been on. Guy's congregate around my locker.

960
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: I don't know why they just did um, but I

961
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: had a reputation I think in the circle of coaches

962
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,479
Speaker 1: that I wasn't good for a lockhomer. I mean part

963
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: of that was my fault, well not part of it.

964
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 1: All of it was my fault because I'm gonna go

965
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: talk to coaches and I would challenge them, like why

966
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: are we doing this when they're doing this against us?

967
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:20,240
Speaker 1: Shouldn't we do this instead of that? And you can't

968
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 1: challenge coaches they're spending I mean, norm is crazy amount

969
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 1: of time preparing the game planning. Here, I am this

970
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,359
Speaker 1: a Roodie plue asked player, and I'm gonna question your

971
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: game plan. And I did that, and I shouldn't have

972
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: done that. I was wrong for that, but at the

973
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: time it was my competitiveness. I'm just trying to win.

974
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: They should be open to my ideas, and that just

975
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 1: wasn't a good thing. But I remember planning to see

976
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 1: what I told that house go back now, Let'ten'll talk

977
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: to Greg math about what we're doing. And that house

978
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: of back straight up told me. He was like, it's

979
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: not gonna change anything, teacher. I played along enough, they're

980
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: not going to change it. So we just lived with

981
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: the game plan and we try to execute it. And

982
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 1: I didn't like that answer, but he was correct. I'm like,

983
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,319
Speaker 1: let's see if you can get a change instead of

984
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 1: trying to live with it. And I wanted to try

985
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 1: to get a change, and I did that probably too much,

986
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 1: and it was stupid of me. And we just wave

987
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: and learn. That's probably the thing that I would change.

988
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: I would just be a player and try to be

989
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: the best player that I can, and don't try to

990
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,360
Speaker 1: be a coach because I'm not spending the time they spend.

991
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 1: That's why I went, well, I don't even necessarily think

992
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: it's that. Look. I learned that in broadcasting, you know,

993
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: I learned that broadcasting, and I learned that a little

994
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: bit and code I didn't do it enough. I thought,

995
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: I think I'm in the opposite. When I was a

996
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: player in college, I should have done more of it,

997
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,240
Speaker 1: you know, because I do think they respected my basketball.

998
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 1: I Q. I should have had more open conversations. But

999
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: when you get to like in broadcasting, I have offered

1000
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: up my opinion, sometimes solicited, many times unsolicited, and it

1001
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: just never goes over well because guys that are you know,

1002
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 1: guys that are in charge and TV that's finally their

1003
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: chance to make a decision, and you're questioning it even

1004
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: if you have like like you said, like, look your intentions.

1005
00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: I just want to win football games. It's not necessarily

1006
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: about me. And when you're doing a you know, in

1007
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: terms of doing TV stuff, you know, it's not all

1008
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: about you. Um, I'll give you an example. Okay, So

1009
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: I was doing the I did the NBA Draft on

1010
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: radio for a decade and about I don't know, halfway through,

1011
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: maybe seven years in. I went to the guy who

1012
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: originally hired me and I said, hey, can can I

1013
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: I have an idea? I said, maybe an email, Like,

1014
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: here's just an idea. You guys, and even in the email,

1015
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have said probably an email, But I don't

1016
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: know why that matters, but it does matter. And you know,

1017
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 1: Ryan Risilo is right, yes, okay, So Rossillo at the

1018
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: time wasn't who he is now. He was a guy

1019
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: who covered the Celtics. He was a fill in guy.

1020
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: He loved hoop and he he watched more hoop than

1021
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: even I did. Okay, I don't know this than this.

1022
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: This doesn't necessarily mean he broke it down the way

1023
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 1: I did. But he knew people in the league. He

1024
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 1: did all the work whenever. So I said, look, you

1025
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: hire like three or four guys to do the NBA

1026
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: Draft AFT and they're all great guys. Okay, but college

1027
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: guys don't know the pro game and pro guys pro

1028
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: guys don't know the college guys. Right, So it's a

1029
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 1: it's a flawed premise to have all these guys commenting

1030
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 1: on players they don't know, or teams that they don't know,

1031
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:14,800
Speaker 1: or the league that they don't know. What if you

1032
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,080
Speaker 1: just had me and Rissilo do the NBA. We both

1033
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 1: are professional radio guys, we both know the sport, but

1034
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,080
Speaker 1: no college but no pro We both talk to people.

1035
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 1: We can break stories and we can both interview. I

1036
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: was like and and oh yeah, by the way, I'm

1037
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 1: already in a contract. Doesn't cost me a penny, I'm

1038
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 1: already on the show. Doesn't cause it doesn't change anything.

1039
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: I'm not saying fire anybody. I'm just saying, like, look,

1040
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: instead of hiring three people, just just you already have

1041
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 1: RASILO payment day, right, and there you go. And the

1042
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:44,520
Speaker 1: response that I met with then I was taking off

1043
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 1: the draft for like two months and then like I

1044
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 1: had to go to one of the bosses like this

1045
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:51,720
Speaker 1: is crazy. And it turns out was because my boss

1046
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: at the time was like, who the funk are you

1047
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: trying to tell us what we should do? And I

1048
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: was like, look, man, I'm already on that. I was

1049
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: already on the draft. I was just trying to help

1050
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: it be a better That's the way should happens. Um, Okay,

1051
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:14,800
Speaker 1: Carson Palmer or Joe Flacco, Matt Hasselback, Oh that's Easy's Carson.

1052
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:20,479
Speaker 1: Like Carson was and he was one of the better

1053
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: quarterbacks ever playing in NFL. He'll never get that acknowledgement.

1054
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,280
Speaker 1: He'll never get that because we didn't win enough. Carson

1055
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: was big. He was a fantastic athlete that people didn't

1056
00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: realize he was a great athlete because he sat in

1057
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: the pocket, but if he wanted to move around, he

1058
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 1: had to athleticism to move around, if he wanted to

1059
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: great arm, tremendous person like Carson was. So like the

1060
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: entire team loved Carson because he exuded just I'm one

1061
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: of the guys type attitude, and guys gravitated to him

1062
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 1: and he didn't have to force you to. It was

1063
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: just natural from like we would have parties, team parties

1064
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: and Carson comes to everyone. You don't a nine, you're coming,

1065
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,359
Speaker 1: you don't even have he you know he's coming. And

1066
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: so he just he did what you want quarterbacks to do,

1067
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: and it came natural form. And it could be because

1068
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 1: he was a quarterback his entire life. He it was

1069
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:29,000
Speaker 1: ingrained in him. He knew what to do. I don't know,

1070
00:57:29,080 --> 00:57:32,439
Speaker 1: but oh yeah, it's not even close, not even close

1071
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 1: in my opinion, And that's no disrespect the House of

1072
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: Back and Flackle. But again, I spent a lot of

1073
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 1: time with Carson. I was only with each of those

1074
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: guys a year. How um, last thing? Okay? I mean,

1075
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 1: because no, no, background is more different than you and

1076
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: Carson Palmer right, like he grew goes up South Orange County,

1077
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:59,400
Speaker 1: private school, superstar high school, college, Heisman number one pick.

1078
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 1: Like no, but your story, my look you had, I

1079
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:08,680
Speaker 1: mean Cedric Benson's passed away obviously, Uh Derek Uh, Chris

1080
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: Henry passed away like you have. The story of you

1081
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 1: guys with with the Bengals was a lot of There's

1082
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: a lot of chances taken there. If I'm a with

1083
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: its basketball, football coach, executive, whatever, how do I how

1084
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 1: do I determine when I look at your back? Because

1085
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: you and I have got to know each other for

1086
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: fifteen years now, right, how do I like? Part of

1087
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 1: it is like we do this background check and we

1088
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 1: find out who and like whoa whoa whoa? What we

1089
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: eating graduate high school? You know what he was doing? What?

1090
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: And there are people that will not give you that

1091
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 1: shot because of your life as a kid and your

1092
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: upbring which has nothing to do with you. Um. I

1093
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: don't know if it is racism, though I think I

1094
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:59,920
Speaker 1: think it's there's so there's there's socioeconomic because of my

1095
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: socio economic background is the reason why I don't know

1096
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: if I would want to give him a chance. But

1097
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 1: if I come from a low income neighborhood, or if

1098
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: I come from a middle class or high end neighborhood,

1099
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: why should it matter you sit because you meet with

1100
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 1: a guy, at least you can tell her. For guys,

1101
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: genuine you can tell if a guy is trying to

1102
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:33,439
Speaker 1: run game on you. As we say, you see right

1103
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: through that, you see right like, you're not hustling me,

1104
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: you you you see at least I can. And so

1105
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: for me, it was just a part of my childhood.

1106
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,360
Speaker 1: And again, and I've had people tell me once I

1107
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: started to play, yeah, I thought you were like, we

1108
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: were gonna even take a chance on you. Like have

1109
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: scouts and coaches tell me that. Once I established myself,

1110
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, really, and I get it. I'm getting

1111
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: your jobs on the line of them. Nobody wants to

1112
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: lose their job over one guy. And if you're wrong,

1113
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:13,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I get it. But how do you handle that?

1114
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: You would hope the meetings and just getting to know

1115
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: a guy, But again, they only they only do that

1116
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: for the top thirty or forty guys. Man. Other than that,

1117
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:28,040
Speaker 1: I don't believe it matters to him. Well, I mean,

1118
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 1: but I would say, like, you know, the where could

1119
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: it go wrong? Is that Chris Henry thing? Right? I mean,

1120
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 1: like Chris Henry had all this off the field stuff

1121
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: that took away from the fact that he was a

1122
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: spectacular talent on the field. You have kind of the

1123
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: three levels to it, like you know, Chad, who is really,

1124
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: as you point out, a quiet dude, but when the

1125
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 1: camera's on, you know he has no problem, you know,

1126
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: kind of turning it up and he's he had some

1127
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: off the field stuff which probably caused the early termination

1128
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: to his career. You do, you had nothing right, and

1129
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,480
Speaker 1: then you had Chris Henry, which obviously you know he

1130
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 1: tragically dies. And I think that's the fear, right, The

1131
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,360
Speaker 1: fear is that that a guy with a with what

1132
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 1: would be called a questionable background goes to Chris Henry

1133
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: route as opposed to what happens to you, where you

1134
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: become kind of synonymous with like this is what you

1135
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: want a pro to be. And that's a hard thing

1136
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: to determine if you're a gentlemanager. And I'm just wondering,

1137
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 1: when you're trying to assess and evaluate who somebody really is,

1138
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: take away the background, you think, like just meeting with

1139
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: the dude is the is the way to do it.

1140
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's tough. You can meet with a guy,

1141
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 1: you don't have a lot of time, you can have

1142
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: fallen conversations. I don't know if you can ever make

1143
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,920
Speaker 1: this an exact signs to where I've got this one nailed.

1144
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: I just don't believe that's the case. And again, my

1145
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: situation to be in Oh it was luck Like, how

1146
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 1: did I didn't play sports? Calling up, I don't graduate

1147
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: from high school. I played my senior years Like, I

1148
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,560
Speaker 1: don't know how I made it really to be I

1149
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: like that. I just worked hard to sell I worked

1150
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: harder than everybody, and people that trained with me, they

1151
01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: know this, But it has to be more to it

1152
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:22,240
Speaker 1: than that. Um, I'm not. I'm just lucky that it

1153
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,520
Speaker 1: worked out for me. And there's so many cases like

1154
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: minds that aren't lucky. It doesn't work out for them.

1155
01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm very aware of that. I'm very thankful because where

1156
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:40,520
Speaker 1: would I be what would I be doing? Considered my

1157
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 1: mother had four kids and only one of us graduated,

1158
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:47,440
Speaker 1: the youngest one. None of them have done anything in

1159
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 1: life to the point where as a parent you'd say, uh,

1160
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 1: that's my son or that's my daughter. Because school wasn't emphasized.

1161
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,640
Speaker 1: It was be in the streets or whatever like that's

1162
01:03:02,720 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: it just it wasn't emphasides in our family, that's all

1163
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,760
Speaker 1: I do with my kids. They probably they probably like

1164
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: shut up t J, like, hey, come on here to

1165
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: this our work. You better get a hunt on this.

1166
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: You better get a like that's all I do isn't

1167
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 1: beside school to my kids. And if you're gonna play sports, oh,

1168
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: you're just gonna have a lot of work to do

1169
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: because we're gonna study and we're gonna work at your game.

1170
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's there's no exact science to this. It's

1171
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 1: uh a feel for it. Understanding people if they're trying

1172
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: to game you and hope you make the right decision.

1173
01:03:33,080 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 1: Really to be honest with you, when you say it

1174
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:41,560
Speaker 1: like that, there's really no way to figure out who's

1175
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: the right guy and who isn't from a mental perspective,

1176
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: from a social perspective. And we're not even talking getting

1177
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: on a certain plan football or the court playing basketball.

1178
01:03:50,800 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 1: Last thing Jordan's lebron oh Man, is do I we

1179
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: have to answer that? You know you didn't say you

1180
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: want you don't have You don't need to meet me personally,

1181
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: me personally. For my generation, it's easy. Michael Jordan's, no question.

1182
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:20,600
Speaker 1: But if I look at it now, I thought I

1183
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:22,040
Speaker 1: didn't like the balls. I was a Laker fan, so

1184
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: I hated Michael Jordan's because it seemed like he never missed.

1185
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: When you look at it now, like this generation, they're

1186
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: gonna say Lebron, Lebron scores, he rebounds, he passes the ball.

1187
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:37,680
Speaker 1: Oh damn, how all does? Like Lebron is playing at

1188
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: a high level every single year of his career. And

1189
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: so to answer that question, if I hadn't be honest

1190
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:51,959
Speaker 1: and impartial, I truly would say Lebron, to be honest

1191
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: with you, just just because every team when Lebron, he's

1192
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: the Cleveland Cavaliers. What happened there? In a lottery, Lebron

1193
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:04,320
Speaker 1: leaves the binding heat, what happens, I don't know if

1194
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 1: there's a lottery. If they made the playoffs, they're eliminating

1195
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: in the first round, you leave the calves again, Oh,

1196
01:05:10,920 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: they're in a lottery. Michael Jordan left the balls. They

1197
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 1: still made the playoffs. And so Lebron means so much

1198
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:21,080
Speaker 1: to a team looking at it them partially, I would

1199
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:27,840
Speaker 1: probably say overaall basketball player Lebron score Michael Jordan's, even

1200
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 1: though Lebron scoring wise is on his close. The best

1201
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:36,360
Speaker 1: defensive back you ever Fain who is the guy Chap

1202
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 1: lay Lay but then he could. Chap was big and

1203
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: he was quick, and he was fast, and he didn't

1204
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: talk no ship like you couldn't even get Champ to

1205
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 1: talk to it to you. But I'm gonna give you

1206
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 1: as I'm gonna give you a name. I'll give you

1207
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: two names that never get credit. And I and me

1208
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 1: personally I thought they were good. Maybe they just gave

1209
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: me a hard time. I don't know. Okay, fair enough.

1210
01:06:01,320 --> 01:06:04,760
Speaker 1: Lee Boden, you never heard of him, mom, I've heard Lie,

1211
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,080
Speaker 1: but le Bot and the dog straight up to play, big, fast,

1212
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:13,040
Speaker 1: physical Lee Botten could play. And then, uh, I'll give

1213
01:06:13,040 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 1: you two more. Ike Taylor was pretty good in Pittsburgh.

1214
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: I thought he could never got a lot credit. Um,

1215
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: he's the guy that talked ship. He talked right back

1216
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 1: like it should go on all game. And I actually

1217
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 1: found court and Finn again was was pretty good man,

1218
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 1: smaller guy fights. He had to compete. Um, but god,

1219
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: those three but chat baby, was. He was the best

1220
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 1: dB that I played against. But tons of respect for

1221
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: Lee Boden and I Taylor for sure. All Right, you're

1222
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 1: a major ship talker, so that means you have to

1223
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,720
Speaker 1: step up here. Who's the guy who gets lots of

1224
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: respect and people talk about how good he was and

1225
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 1: he really wasn't very good to you? At what? At

1226
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:54,800
Speaker 1: what position? The guy you matched up with? Cornerback? Oh?

1227
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: What quarterback? Do they think? The corner people? Corner dB?

1228
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 1: M oh man, that's a tugh one. You give me

1229
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:12,000
Speaker 1: a dB that people think is good? Look good? Well,

1230
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you gotta go like in your

1231
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 1: like Lee Boden was in your division right with Cleveland, right,

1232
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: but when he was good. But honestly, like we like

1233
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: I done. This is an a lot, man. We didn't

1234
01:07:23,760 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: go on motion. Me and Chad were like, we got open,

1235
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: we ran outs. No, No, I understand names I named.

1236
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 1: We still killed him. No, No, I dude, I got you,

1237
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: I got you. I'm just saying I'm trying to do.

1238
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: Think of any corners in our division, because Baltimore had

1239
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:47,120
Speaker 1: Chris McAlister, Gary Baxter, we killed them. The Steelers probably

1240
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,320
Speaker 1: did the best against us, but we killed them and

1241
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:55,080
Speaker 1: the Browns, Yeah, we killed them. I'm trying to think. No,

1242
01:07:55,200 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: I mean because we played the Raiders. I never forget it.

1243
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,080
Speaker 1: We played the Raiders. Marvel was talking trash to me

1244
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:02,600
Speaker 1: and Chad the whole week. That's when they had not

1245
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: the awesome win and uh, a little fast dude, what's

1246
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: his name? Faster? We went in the brass base from Florida,

1247
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: the Brayton tent of Prince of Cola. I came to

1248
01:08:12,720 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: think his name Browns can do that. I can't think

1249
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 1: his name right now. But the r idea was played.

1250
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,640
Speaker 1: Man the man, Me and Chad had a yard at

1251
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 1: that time, got out the yard at that time, both

1252
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: of us. Why didn't you make that New England? They're

1253
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,280
Speaker 1: locking him up? Why didn't Chad? Why did't Chad working?

1254
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 1: Why didn't Chad work in New England? Why didn't that work?

1255
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: We had been in the same system forever. I think

1256
01:08:36,360 --> 01:08:38,040
Speaker 1: going to New England might have been a shock form.

1257
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: Chad played x UM from the time he got drafted

1258
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 1: to the Bengals to the time he left. Then going

1259
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:46,960
Speaker 1: to New England, it was just different and also and

1260
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: as well documented um, I don't chat a ton of Cincinnati,

1261
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: and so if there was any question on what he

1262
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,720
Speaker 1: was run and I just told him and so he

1263
01:08:57,800 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 1: got used to that. Chad is my partning like I

1264
01:08:59,840 --> 01:09:03,599
Speaker 1: love that do like a brother, and so Oregon State

1265
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: Cincinnati anytime we're on the field. And he looked like

1266
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: he didn't know what he was doing. I just told him,

1267
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: no second thoughts. I want to win. If you want

1268
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 1: of the best receiser I've ever seen in my life,

1269
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,840
Speaker 1: you can help us win. I'm gonna help you because

1270
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: you're my brother. And so it could be it was

1271
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 1: just a little much for him. Um, the comfort level

1272
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 1: it was different. You get I mean, you're in the

1273
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 1: marriage for teen years and you get used to doing

1274
01:09:28,240 --> 01:09:29,919
Speaker 1: things in a certain ways. You get a new girlfriend

1275
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 1: and things changed. You've got to get adjusted to it.

1276
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 1: Football there's no adjustment. You gotta just now shoot all play.

1277
01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 1: And so it would have to be the system and

1278
01:09:38,360 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: wasn't for sure wasn't physical. Yeah, no, he he lined

1279
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,360
Speaker 1: up in the wrong spot. He struggled to you know

1280
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 1: Brady Brady and him, didn't you know he was also

1281
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 1: a guy who kind of went by field and that's

1282
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 1: not how they play there, right, They didn't they they

1283
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: didn't need whatever, whateverever, whatever. The deal is so gifted there.

1284
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,320
Speaker 1: It's like he's like a basketball player. You want to

1285
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: run this play and I'll give me the Paul Claire

1286
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: out and he would improvised on his right he would

1287
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: run the right route, but it would be a lot

1288
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: of imperfect empamization going into it. In the quarterback, you know,

1289
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: he wants to see if I gotta dig or out,

1290
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,160
Speaker 1: you're gonna get up the field broke eighteen yards. I

1291
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:18,680
Speaker 1: want the ball to be caught before the half two

1292
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: or four yards outside of the numbers. Are inside of

1293
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 1: the numbers, and Chad is going to do that. But

1294
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:29,479
Speaker 1: it's everything before that that the quarterback and the O

1295
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: C probably don't like um, but create a separation. He

1296
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,679
Speaker 1: can do that. But yeah, it was. It sucked because

1297
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: Chad is one of the best receivers ever playing football

1298
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,120
Speaker 1: and he'll never get that credit, no question anybody that

1299
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:48,519
Speaker 1: no question is talent lines. It ain't close, bro, I've

1300
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: seen them all. It ain't close. Who's straight stuff? Man.

1301
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:56,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate what you're doing in the sports world, you know,

1302
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 1: and teaching and coaching wide receivers as well. Teaching guy

1303
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: is that you know about work ethic and your own

1304
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 1: children about going to school. Thanks so much for joining us,

1305
01:11:04,840 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 1: and I can't wait for something to make a movie

1306
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: on your story. Hey bad, I appreciate you. Bout to

1307
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 1: take care. See you tomorrow perfect which I gotta run,

1308
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: Thanks dude. Care. Be sure to catch the live edition

1309
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,920
Speaker 1: of The Doug Gottlieb Show weekdays at three p m.

1310
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:23,879
Speaker 1: Easter noon Pacific. All right, that's uh, that's t j Oshman's.

1311
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:26,719
Speaker 1: I I look, I still disagree with them on Jordan's

1312
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:29,520
Speaker 1: and Lebron, and I do think that the younger generation

1313
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: likes Lebron because they've seen Lebron and they've may be

1314
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: forgotten how dominant Jordan was. But um, you know, I think,

1315
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 1: especially after the last dance, I'm even more of a

1316
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 1: Jordan guy. That said, it's a great perspective. Hey, I

1317
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:47,920
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that interview. A little bit different, not

1318
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 1: a ton of basketball, but as we've done on this podcast,

1319
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: we tell people's kind of life, tale of how they

1320
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,160
Speaker 1: got to where they are now. I hope you enjoyed it.

1321
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: Remember the download two Uh, subscribe and to rate it

1322
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 1: because I think somebody gets more money I don't if

1323
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,200
Speaker 1: you do so. In the meantime, listening to Doug got

1324
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,639
Speaker 1: Leave Show daily three to six eastern twelve three Pacific

1325
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: on Fox Sport trade of the I Heart Radio app

1326
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 1: or wherever you download podcast, where ever you listen to

1327
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:17,680
Speaker 1: terrestrial radio like Fox Sports Radio. I'm Doug gott Leave.

1328
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:18,559
Speaker 1: This is all bold