1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridgett and this is 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: there Are No Girls on the Internet. 4 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: Hello. 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: So if I sound a little bit out of it, 6 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: it's because it's been a very long week. I suspect 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: that it's probably true for you wherever you're listening. I 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: think we could all use a week where things just 9 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: feel a little bit normal. I'm not even asking for 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: good frankly, I'm just asking for normal. But that week 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: is not this week. So I wanted to talk a 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: little bit about what is going on with Charlie Kirk. 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: So I'll tell you the broad strokes of what's happening, 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: and then I want to get into my main point, 15 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: which is what the reaction has been like and what 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: I think it says about where we're at as a culture. So, 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: in case you have not heard, this week, thirty one 18 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: year old conservative right wing activist Charlie Kirk huge trump 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 1: ally was shot and killed during a campus debate at 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: Utah Ballet University in Utah. Law enforcement initially released some 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: pretty like unhelpful videos and images of a suspect, but 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: because notably everybody who might have known what they're doing 23 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: at the FBI was systematically pushed out of the FBI, 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: people like Matab Sayed, who was pushed out of the 25 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: Utah FBI in July because she was not a good fit, 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: along with a bunch of other FBI officials as part 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: of a purge. Because of all that, the FBI and 28 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: law enforcement in Utah, we're basically like, yeah, we have 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: no leads whatsoever, we have no helpful information. We're just 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: looking for a white guy in Utah, which, yeah, if 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: you've been to Utah, not's the most helpful. Just this morning, 32 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: as I was sitting down to record, I saw news 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: that they do have the suspect in custody. Our FBI 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: director Cash Pattel attended a press conference but did not speak. Frankly, 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: he just looked very much in over his head. There 36 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: is this video I saw of him kind of silently 37 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: skulking around the sidelines of the press conference, and I 38 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: almost thought, you know, even if you don't really know 39 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: what you're doing, or you're overwhelmed, you could always just 40 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: thank people further hard work, call out some names. That's 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: always a good thing to do at a press conference. 42 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: If you don't know what else to say. I'll put 43 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: the video of him in the show notes, But I 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: know that look. It is the look of somebody who 45 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: was in way over their head. Honestly, it is the 46 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: look of a podcaster who was just put in charge 47 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: of a very high profile murder investigation. Honestly, I would 48 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: probably have the same look. None of the officials took questions. 49 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: The whole thing just did not inspire confidence. Patel also 50 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: was posting updates on social media that then ended up 51 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,239 Speaker 1: being wrong. At first they said that he had apprehended 52 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,240 Speaker 1: a suspect, but then that was a mistake and that 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: man had been released, and then Patel said the investigation 54 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,399 Speaker 1: was ongoing. 55 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 2: So if you listen to the. 56 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: Episode that we did with our producer Joey Patt about 57 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: how trans folks are baselessly blamed for instances of violence, 58 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,519 Speaker 1: that is absolutely what happened in this situation. I just 59 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: took a search on Twitter and it is filled with 60 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: verified Blue check accounts sharing images of people that they 61 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: want say are trans, and two have been named. 62 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 2: As the suspect. 63 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: Just like clockwork, it sho go without saying that none 64 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: of that is true. Early reports from The Wall Street 65 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: Journal indicated that ammunition was found inscribed with quote transgender 66 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: and anti fascist ideology, and I was thinking, what the 67 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: hell does transgender and anti fascist ideology mean? The Trans 68 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: Journalist Association helpfully cautioned against media outlets repeating this without 69 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: actually knowing more, and just generally reminded that quote transgender 70 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: ideology is a term coined for and used in anti 71 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: trans political messaging to falsely equate identity with politics, which 72 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: is a way to frame trans identity as a political 73 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: choice rather than an innate identity, as it is often 74 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: unclear what actions or political positions the phrases actually refer to, 75 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: not unlike how the homosexual agenda is an amorphous term 76 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 1: that has no real death definition. Reporters, they said, should 77 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: be careful about using this term. It is exclusively used 78 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: to attack a minority group for political gain. So the 79 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal said that this ammunition had transgender and 80 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: anti fascist ideology written on it, but soon thereafter, The 81 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: New York Times reported that a senior law enforcement official 82 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: with direct knowledge of the investigation cautioned that those reports 83 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,359 Speaker 1: had not been verified by ATF analysis and did not 84 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: match other summaries of the evidence, and might turn out 85 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: to have been misread or misinterpreted, and then just a 86 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: few hours later, the Wall Street Journal walked back that story, 87 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: stopping just short of a retraction. And what is so 88 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: annoying about that is that it was already posted everywhere, 89 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: headline after headline that trans ideology was found written on 90 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: the ammunition. But I have seen a lot less reporting 91 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: of the fact that Wall Street Journal has now clarify 92 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: that these are just preliminary reports and cautioned folks against 93 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 1: taking them at face value. And that makes sense because 94 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: we now know there was no trans ideology written on 95 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: that ammunition. People spent, however, long, humanizing trans folks for 96 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 1: no reason and lying about transfolks for no reason, and 97 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: did not even follow back up with the correct information. 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:13,359 Speaker 1: So let's talk about how people are responding to this murder. 99 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: I obviously am not supportive of violence. Frankly, I think 100 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: this is a really dangerous development which could likely lead 101 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: to more violence and further increase the fear that so 102 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 1: many trans and clear and marginalized people are already living 103 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: with every goddamn day. So that is where I stand. 104 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: But I also need to make clear that there is 105 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: a world of difference between cheering violence against somebody and 106 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,679 Speaker 1: completely lying about and whitewashing somebody's entire career, what they did, 107 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: what they said, and what they actually stood for. 108 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: And I feel like I am losing my goddamn mind 109 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: watching people do that this week. 110 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: We do not have to make Charlie Kirk into a 111 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 1: hero or a martyr to wish his family well or 112 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: to express condolences to his wife and kids. We do 113 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: not have to divorce Charlie Kirk from what it was 114 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: he was doing and literally, quite literally the things that 115 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: he was saying when he was killed. 116 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 2: We could actually tell the truth about those things. 117 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 1: I almost think that we have gotten to a point 118 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: where that if you just read Charlie Kirk's actual recent 119 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: words in public that he said, you would be told 120 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: that you were being disrespectful to the dead, because you'll 121 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: notice that nobody is actually pointing to many words or 122 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: quotes or videos of him saying things that they found 123 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: profound or whatever after his death. Freakin Kristin Chenowis from 124 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: Wicked posted quote, I'm so upset. I didn't always agree, 125 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 1: but I appreciated some perspectives, and I would absolutely love 126 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: to know which perspectives specifically, she appreciated from Charlie Kirk Online. 127 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: They are comparing Charlie Kirk to Martin Luther King. 128 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 2: I'm not kidding. 129 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: Representative Anna Paulina Luna circulated a draft letter asking for 130 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: a statue of Kirk to be placed in the US Capitol. 131 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: Representative Andrew Clyde supported that, saying, quote, we have a 132 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: statue of MLK in the Capitol, don't we basically saying 133 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: that Kirk and MLK. 134 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 2: Should be similarly honored. 135 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: Mind you, this is how I know these people don't 136 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: even know what they're talking about, and they don't even 137 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: know what Kirk actually did or stood for, or said 138 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: or felt. Because Charlie Kirk did not even like Martin 139 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: Luther King. This time last year, what was Charlie Kirk doing. 140 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: He said that he was going to start dedicating his 141 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: podcast to discrediting Martin Luther King's legacy. So this just 142 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: lets me understand that these people have no idea about 143 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: the actual attitudes and positions of the person that they 144 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: are lionizing in death. The Trump administration ordered flags at 145 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: half massed around the country. At the Yankees game that 146 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: did a tribute to Kirk, there was a moment of 147 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: silence at the NFL game. This after all backhand winging 148 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: about not bringing politics into sports when people were kneeling 149 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: for the anthem. Remember that, So Charlie Kirk was a 150 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: private citizen, a podcaster who did not have any role 151 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: within the administration or in government, and yet his body 152 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: was transported on Air Force two with the Vice President. 153 00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: At taxpayer expense. 154 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: And I think that there is something about the way 155 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: the Internet is reacting to this, the speed and the 156 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: scale of the reaction, the lionization, the spectacle, that has 157 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: truly broken my brain and revealed to me that we 158 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: genuinely are just living in a fractured reality because we 159 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: have people lionizing Charlie Kirk in this way that I 160 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: simply do not understand, Like, genuinely, if you knew about 161 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk, just at face value, stuff that he did, 162 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: stuff that he said, what his work actually looked like, 163 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: they don't think people are actually grappling with Charlie Kirk, 164 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: who he was, what he did, what he said, what 165 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: his work actually looked like, to the point where, listen, 166 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: I don't like Charlie Kirk, but it almost feels disrespectful 167 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: to the man's work and life and legacy to completely 168 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: ignore what the work fast aspect he was quite proud of. 169 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Like I like, in a weird kind of roundabout way, 170 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: I feel like people who are telling the truth about 171 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: the work that he did are being more respectful of 172 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: him because they're actually telling the truth about the stuff 173 00:08:57,320 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: that he's spent his life doing. 174 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 2: And I think that's why you might see like. 175 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: Your normy aunt or something on Facebook being like, Oh, 176 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: what a nice young man. 177 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 2: It's so sad that he was killed. 178 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,839 Speaker 1: And I think the reason is is that he was young, 179 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 1: he had a wife and kids, and I think that 180 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: it's easy for people to say, oh, he just was 181 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: someone who cared about scripture and the Bible and Christianity, 182 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: like I've seen people talk about Charlie Kirk like he 183 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: was more or less a neutral figure who just traveled 184 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: around to colleges to teach young students about the power 185 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: and importance of civil debate and discourse, which is so 186 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: far removed from reality that I simply cannot let it stand. 187 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: I saw somebody say, oh, he would go into these 188 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: hotbeds of liberal campuses only armed with a Bible on 189 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: a microphone, And. 190 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 2: I think if that's genuinely all you know about this person. 191 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: I could maybe see why you would get into a 192 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: situation where you're lionizing them because you really don't know 193 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: what it was that person. 194 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 3: Actually did or actually stood for. Let's take a quick 195 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 3: break at our back. 196 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: The first thing people really need to understand about Charlie 197 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: Kirk is that he wasn't just a podcaster who said 198 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: mean things into a microphone for lots and lots of money. 199 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: Although he did a lot of that, he wasn't just 200 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: some shock jock radio DJ. His work caused actual harm 201 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: to people. Just take a look at his work with 202 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: Turning Points USA. So, in November twenty sixteen, Charlie Kirk's 203 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: organization Turning Points USA launched what they call the Professor 204 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: watch List. The initiative aim to quote, expose, and document 205 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 1: college professors who discriminate against conservative students at advanced leftist 206 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: propaganda in the classroom. The watch List functioned as an 207 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: online database featuring names, pictures, and accusations against professors that 208 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: Kirk and his followers do not like hook still up. 209 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: These allegations often stem from student complaints, media reports, or 210 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: cherry picked selective quotes. Once listed professors face harassment campaigns, 211 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: including hate mail, doxing, and threats. Y'all, I know real 212 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: people in my life, academics, speakers, and writers who were threatened, silenced, 213 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: and harassed because of this list. Here's just a sampling. 214 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:28,119 Speaker 1: George Siicarellio Mayer, a political science professor formally at Drexel University, 215 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: was added to the watch list after satirical tweets critical 216 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: of white supremacy, including a viral post that read all 217 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: I Want for Christmas is white genocide Now. He told 218 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: The Washington Post that the tweet was meant to be satirical, 219 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: poking fun at this idea of white genocide as quote 220 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: an imaginary concept used by the far right to scare people. 221 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 1: But that got him added to this list, and after 222 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: he was included on it, he reported an avalanche of 223 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 1: violent threats, leading to his eventual resignation in twenty seventeen 224 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,079 Speaker 1: after a year of harassment by right wing white supremacist 225 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,959 Speaker 1: media outlets and internet mobs. After threats and threats of 226 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: violence directed at me and my family, my situation has 227 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: become unsustainable, he wrote in a statement on Facebook. There's 228 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: also Tommy Curry, a black philosophy professor formerly at Texas 229 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: and M University who specialized in race theory. In an 230 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: episode of a radio show, Curry, who was supportive of 231 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: gun ownership, was talking about the Quentin Tarantino movie Django Unchained. 232 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: If you haven't seen that movie, it's a formally enslaved 233 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: person gets revenge on his enslaver. The Guardian reports that 234 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: he talked about how uneasy white people are with the 235 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: idea of black people talking about gun ownership and using 236 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: them to combat racist forces. But when a recording of 237 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: the talk we surfaced, people thought that he was telling 238 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: black people to kill white people. This idea, the Guardian reports, 239 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: swept through conservative media and into the fever swamps of 240 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: Reddit forms and racist message boards, and the threats followed. 241 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: So that particular instance did not start on the professor 242 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: watch list, but the watch list amplified it and Curry 243 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: faced sustained harassment and death threats. Robin Dangelo, best known 244 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: for her book White Fragility, was included on the watch 245 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: list for promoting quote anti white bias in her scholarship 246 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: and teachings on systemic racism, and I think that her 247 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: case really illustrates what the watch list is really about, 248 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: which is punishing and silencing scholarship that names and calls 249 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: out and critiques inequality. Same thing with Kianga Yamada Taylor 250 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: at Princeton University, a leading black feminist scholar who writes 251 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: about race and housing inequality. She was added to the 252 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: Professor watch list after criticizing Trump in a commencement speech 253 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: and basically had to pull out of her public appearances 254 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: afterward because of public threats. In the wake of Charlie 255 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: Kirk's death, Professor Stacy Patton, another black woman professor targeted 256 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: by Kirk for harassment, had this to say on Facebook. 257 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: It is a little long, but I do think people 258 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: should hear what she had to say, And just to 259 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: heads up that her post includes some slurs and you 260 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: will hear those in this segment, she says, I am 261 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,479 Speaker 1: on Charlie Kirk's hit list. His so called Professor watchlist, 262 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: run under the umbrella of Turning Points USA, is nothing 263 00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: more than a digital hit list for academics who dare 264 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: speak truth to power. I landed there in twenty twenty 265 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: four after writing commentary that inflamed the MAGA faithful, and 266 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: once my name went up, the harassment machine roared to life. 267 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: For weeks, My inbox and voicemail were deluged, mostly white 268 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: men spit venom at me through the phone. Bitch, cunt, nigger. 269 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,479 Speaker 1: They threatened all manner of violence. They overwhelmed the university's 270 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: PR lines and the president's office with calls demanding that 271 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: I be fired. The flood was so relentless that the 272 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: head of campus security reached out to offer me an 273 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: escort because they feared one of these keyboard soldiers might 274 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: step out of his basement and do me harm. And 275 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: I am not unique. Kirk's watch list has terrorized lesions 276 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: of professors across this country, women, black faculty, queer scholars. Basically, 277 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: anyone who challenged white supremacy, gun culture, or Christian nationalism 278 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: suddenly found themselves the target of coordinated abuse. Some received threats, 279 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 1: some had their jobs threatened, Some left academia entirely. Kirk 280 00:14:57,040 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: sent the loud message to us, speak the truth and 281 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: we unleash the mob. That is the culture of violence 282 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: that Charlie Kirk built. He normalized violence, he curated it, 283 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: monetized it, and sticked it on anyone who dared puncture 284 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: his movements lies and now in the wake of his shooting. 285 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: There is all this national outpouring of mourning, moments of silence, 286 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: yellow prayer hands, and tribute to painting him as a 287 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: civil debater. But the truth is Kirk and his foot 288 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: soldiers spent years terrorizing educators, trying to silence us with 289 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,720 Speaker 1: harassment and fear, and now the same violence he unleashed 290 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: on others has come full circle. But what I find 291 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: especially jarring is the dissonance in public mourning for a 292 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: smug white man whose life work was actively hostile to 293 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:41,440 Speaker 1: certain groups. Kirk spent years demonizing LGBTQ people, mocking gun survivors, 294 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: viewing racism about black folks, and pushing policies that literally 295 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: shorten lives. It is so revolting to watch a bipartisan 296 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: wave of grief sweep over this hateful racist as if 297 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: he was a neutral community servant. So I wanted to 298 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: share what Professor Patton is saying here because I think 299 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: that we are seeing this culture that is demanding people 300 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 1: who were personally targeted by this person, and personally targeted 301 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: by the culture this person designed and built up. We 302 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: are we are seeing systems demand that those same people 303 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: who were targeted now mourn for this person, Now hold 304 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: space for this person. Now not speak up about what 305 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: they experienced about this person and what they experienced at 306 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: this person's hands. And Professor Patton is not alone. Four 307 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: or four reports that the American Association of University Professors 308 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: wrote in an open letter in twenty seventeen that the 309 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: Professor watch List lists names of professors with their institutional 310 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: affiliations photographs, thereby making it easy for would be stalkers 311 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: and cyberbullies to target them. Individual faculty members who have 312 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: been included on such lists singled out elsewhere, have been 313 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: subject to threats of violence, including sexual assault, through hundreds 314 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: of emails, calls, and social media postings. Such threatening messages 315 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: are likely to stifle the free expression of the targeted 316 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: faculty member. Further, the publicity that such cases attract can 317 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: cause to self censor so as to avoid being subject 318 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: to similar treatment. Campus free speech rights group fire found 319 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: that censorship and punishment of professors skyrocketed between twenty twenty 320 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: and twenty twenty three in part because of efforts of 321 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: the Professor watch List. So we need to really keep 322 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: it real that the Professor watch List is not just 323 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 1: a catalog of liberal professors. It is a tool designed 324 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: to intimidate and silence people who challenged entrenched power structures 325 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: by disproportionately targeting marginalized scholars, trans and queer scholars, black women, 326 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: and anybody who did work around inequality and critical voices. 327 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: It really underscores the stakes of this never ending harassment 328 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: campaign that people like Kirk disingenuously call the free speech debate. 329 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: It is not about protecting open inquiry but about suppressing 330 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: descent pretty clearly, and it's all about silencing critics of 331 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: the right. 332 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 2: And Charlie Kirk got to do this work of. 333 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: Silencing people and bullying people into silence and making people 334 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: fear for their lives for what they said, while simultaneously 335 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 1: branding himself a warrior and protector of free speech on 336 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: college campuses while he himself was going to college campuses 337 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: to get paid big money for talking about how black 338 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: women like me lacked the brain processing power to be 339 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: taken seriously. 340 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,199 Speaker 4: But now they're coming out and they're saying it for us. 341 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 4: They're coming out and they're saying I'm only here because 342 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 4: of affirmative action. Yeah, we know you do not have 343 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 4: the brain processing power to otherwise be taken really seriously. 344 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 4: You had to go steal a white person slot to 345 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 4: go be taken somewhat seriously. 346 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk's whole thing was about setting a double standard 347 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: where he got to say whatever he wanted and his 348 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: opponents were forced into silence, Like I get to say 349 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: whatever I want and it's free speech, but if you 350 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: have anything to say about it, you will line up 351 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: on my watch list for it and get fired. And 352 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: it's the exact same culture that we're contending with right now, 353 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: where Charlie Kirk openly talked about how he hated empathy, 354 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: and yet anybody who was deemed not being empathetic enough 355 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: about Kirk's death winds up on a list. 356 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: Literally. 357 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: Wired has a great piece called right wing activists or 358 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 1: targeting people for allegedly celebrating Charlie Kirk's death, all about 359 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: how far right influencers and violent extremists are posting identifying 360 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: details about people that they view as celebrating or glorifying 361 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk's death. The campaign has been swift and widespread, 362 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: and has already led to at least one person losing 363 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: their job and others receiving death threats. There is already 364 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: a website, Charlie murderers dot com that Wired reports is 365 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: a quote central hub of this activity, which was registered 366 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: in the early evening on the day Kirk was shot, 367 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: and is revealing certain personal information such as social media 368 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: usernames and email addresses of individuals that the operators believe 369 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: were celebrating his horrific murder. One of the first names 370 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: on the list is journalist Rachel Gilmore. She posted that 371 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: she was terrified to think of how far right fans 372 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,360 Speaker 1: of Kirk aching for more violence could very well turn 373 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: this into an even more radicalizing moment. Will they now 374 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: believe their fears have been proven right and feel they 375 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 1: have to retaliate, regardless of who actually was behind the 376 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: initial shooting. So after she was put on this list, 377 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: she told Wired that the website has made her genuinely 378 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: afraid for her safety. I feel awful for anyone whose 379 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: name was on it. It's clear that purpose of the 380 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: website is to do exactly what the posts that landed 381 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: me on their warn Kirk supporters might want to do retaliate, 382 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,199 Speaker 1: and obviously she is not wrong. Rachel got death threats 383 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: and rape threats and dms from people promising to find 384 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: out where she lives, and importantly, Wired reports that just 385 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: like Rachel, a lot of the people who got on 386 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: that list did not glorify violence or really even celebrate 387 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 1: Kirk's death. Some of the posts are just apathetic tweets, 388 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: things like posting the news of Kirk's death and writing 389 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: and the world keep spitting. But that apathy, not even 390 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: outright celebrating or condoning or glorifying his death, was enough 391 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: for them to be included on this list. Libs of 392 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: TikTok's Chaia Rachik highlighted that the assistant dean at the 393 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: Office of Student Care and Conduct at Middletonnessee State University 394 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: wrote on her Facebook page that she had zero sympathy 395 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: for Charlie Kirk, and she was fired within hours. The 396 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: university put up a statement saying an MTSU employee today 397 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: offered inappropriate and callous comments on social media concerning the 398 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: horrific and tragic murder of Charlie Kirk. The comments by 399 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: this employee, who worked in a position of trust directly 400 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: with students, were inconsistent with our values and have undermined 401 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: the university's credibility and reputation with our students, faculty, staff, 402 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: and community at large. This employee has been fired effective immediately. 403 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: Variety even reported that Comcast, the parent company of NBC, MSNBC, Bravo, etc. 404 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 1: Sent out an all staff memo warning staffers not to 405 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: say the wrong thing about Charlie Kirk. So this was 406 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: after MSNBC swiftly fired Matthew Dowd, who had been working 407 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,399 Speaker 1: as an MSNBC contributor, after he said on air that 408 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: Kirk was a divisive figure who pushed hate speed. The 409 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: Comcast memo said that that coverage was at odds with 410 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: fostering civil dialogue and being willing to listen to the 411 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: points of view of those who have differing opinions. We 412 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: should be able to disagree robustly and passionately, but ultimately 413 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: with respect. We need to do better. So you really 414 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: see how mainstream media is doing the work of whitewashing 415 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: Kirk's actual words and attitudes and also setting the agenda 416 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,919 Speaker 1: that stepping out of the norm of how people are 417 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: deciding to talk about that in his death will not 418 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: be tolerated. It doesn't stop there, because Louisiana Representative Clay 419 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: Higgins says that he's going to seek to have social 420 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,640 Speaker 1: media companies place lifetime bands on users that he deems 421 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: as having glorified or celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. 422 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: He says, I'm going to use congressional authority and every 423 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: influence with big tech platforms to mandate immediate ban for 424 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 1: life of every post or commenter that belittled the assassination 425 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: of Charlie Kirk. Mind you, this is the same representative 426 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 1: Clay Higgins who threatened to put Twitter executives in prison 427 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: because of what he's claimed was unfair censorship of content 428 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: about Hunter Biden's laptop. 429 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 2: So we again see the. 430 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: Double standard where censorship of me is bad, but censorship 431 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 1: of my opponents is virtuous and patriotic. There is no 432 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: principle here other than oppression, so Higgins continued. If they 433 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 1: ran their mouths with their smartass hatred celebrating the heinous 434 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 1: murder of that beautiful young man who dedicated his whole 435 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: life to delivering respectful conservative truth into the hearts of 436 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: liberal enclave universities armed only with a Bible and a 437 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 1: microphone and a constitution, those profiles must come down. He said. 438 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: He plans to lobby big tech to have zero tolerance 439 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: for violent political hate content. I'm also going after their 440 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: business licenses and permitting their businesses will be blacklisted aggressively. 441 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: They should be kicked out of every school, and their 442 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: driver's license should be revoked. He added, I'm basically going 443 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: to cancel with extreme prejudice these evil, sick animals who 444 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: celebrated Charlie Kirk's assassination. 445 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 2: I'm starting that today. That is all. 446 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: More, after a quick break, Let's get right back into it. 447 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: The Trump administration warned that they could even look at 448 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: revoking existing visas or denying them to applicants if they 449 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: were deemed to have been making light of Charlie Kirk's death. 450 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: Deputy Secretary of State Christopher Landue posted on x saying 451 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: that he's directed consular officials to undertake appropriate action, saying, 452 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: I've been disgusted to see some on social media praising, rationalizing, 453 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,239 Speaker 1: or making light of the event, and have directed our 454 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: consular officials to undertake appropriate action. Please feel free to 455 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: bring such comments by foreigners to my attention so that 456 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 1: the State Department can protect the American people, like protect 457 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: the American people from what Expressing apathy about a podcaster 458 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 1: you all liked. Now, keep in mind that as of 459 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: recording this on September twelfth, we do not yet know 460 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:57,959 Speaker 1: much about the suspects. 461 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 2: Motive. Stuff is starting to trickle in. 462 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 1: That is not stopped right wing figures from essentially using 463 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: Kirk's death to call for war and retribution. 464 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: I guess against. 465 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: Leftists or liberals or Democrats, or queer folks or trans 466 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,520 Speaker 1: folks or people of color or anybody they've decided is 467 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: against them because they are not white straight men. Pushing 468 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: that party line, the Congressional Black Caucus is calling for 469 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 1: an investigation after a spate of bomb threats at historically 470 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: black colleges and universities, Which just makes me wonder since 471 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: the suspect is white, and Charlie Kirk is white, and 472 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: it happened in a mostly white state, Like why are 473 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: we in it? But you know what, I don't even 474 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: really have to ask, because I know why. 475 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: This is a war. 476 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: This is a war, said Alex Jones. Steve Bannon said, 477 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: we have to have Steely resolved. Charlie Kirk is a 478 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: casualty of war. We are at war in this country. 479 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 1: We are, and of course our old pal Elon Musk 480 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: had this to say, if they won't leave us in peace, 481 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: then our choice is to fight or die. You probably 482 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: saw Trump's weird probably AI video where he said for years, 483 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: those on the radical left have compared wonder full of 484 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: Americans like Charlie to Nazis and the world's worst mass 485 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: murderers and criminals. This kind of rhetoric is directly responsible 486 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: for the terrorism that we're seeing in the country today. 487 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: What's also so wild to me about this is the 488 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: fact that the left, save for some like random people 489 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: on social media, have all condemned what happened to Charlie Kirk. 490 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: They are not celebrating it. But that's the thing. It 491 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: genuinely does not matter really what is said or what 492 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: even really happened. Actually, what matters is this big narrative 493 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: that is clearly being weaponized. His death is being turned 494 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: into a tool, a way to justify harassment and threats 495 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: and censorship of anybody who disagrees the content of our words, 496 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 1: what we actually say, the nuance of our positions, None 497 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: of that seems to matter anymore. What matters is that 498 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: we are targets were simply existing in a world where 499 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: we don't really want to make him a murder or 500 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: erase the reality of the things that he said and did. 501 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: It's also just a complete rewriting of history. 502 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 2: Currently we do. 503 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: Not know much about the motive, but let's just say 504 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: it was political violence. How can you live in a 505 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: country like the United States and acts like political violence 506 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: just started this week with the murder of Charlie Kirk. 507 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: It's like a far right extremist never broke into Nancy 508 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: Pelosi's home and bashed her elderly husband's head in with 509 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: a hammer, and you know what people on the right 510 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: did after that happened. Donald Trump Junior responded with a 511 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,880 Speaker 1: tweet mocking the attack, saying the Internet remains undefeated, basically 512 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: implying the whole thing was a joke rather than a 513 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: serious assault on an elderly old man. Elon Musk shared 514 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: a link to a false report claiming that Paul Pelosi 515 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: was involved in a romantic or sexual dispute with a 516 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: male sex worker, a claim that has been thoroughly debunked. 517 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: And Clay Higgins, the representative from Louisiana who said that 518 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: we should have no tolerance for political violence, amplified the 519 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: same thing. And you know what Charlie Kirk did after 520 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: that happened. He encouraged his audience to post a bail 521 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: for Nancy Pelosi's husband's attacker, who he called a patriot. 522 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: Or what about Melissa Hortman, the Democratic lawmaker who was 523 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: a fascinated alongside our husband and Doug just a few 524 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 1: months ago? Why didn't Trump order national flags that half 525 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: masked for her? Why no tribute at Yankees games? In 526 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: a post after Kirk's death, Gavin Newsom said the best 527 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: way to honor Charlie's memory is to continue his work. 528 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 1: Engage with each other across ideology through spirited discourse. In 529 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: a democracy, ideas are tested through words and good face debate, 530 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: never through violence. Honest disagreement makes us stronger. Violence only 531 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: drives us apart and corrodes the values at the heart 532 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 1: of this nation. But that is my thing. Let's not 533 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: pretend like Kirk's whole thing was honest disagreement. It is 534 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 1: just so insulting to call his brand of debate honest disagreement. 535 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 2: He didn't think women should work or vote. 536 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: When asked about whether or not black women could be 537 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: pilots or doctors, he said, and I quote I don't 538 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: want Laquisha James flying the plane or a black lesbian 539 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: operating on me at the hospital. How was that an 540 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: honest disagreement? Do we really need to treat this as 541 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: spirited discourse and not what it is? It is a 542 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: refusal to see entire groups of people as fully human 543 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: or capable. Calling that debate doesn't just sanitize his rhetoric. 544 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: It erases the real harm that it causes and the 545 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: dangerous world view that it promotes. And worse, it sets 546 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: the people up that he targeted with this kind of 547 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: rhetoric to just have to swallow it and call it 548 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: ice cream. I saw this post from a lawyer named 549 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: Cheryl Weichel last night, and I think it really makes 550 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: the point well. Open debate is for economic policy and 551 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: whether we should charge for public transportation. Open debate is 552 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: not whether some human beings are lesser than others like 553 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 1: in Gavin Newsom's mind. How would I even debate that? 554 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 1: How would I even have a spirited discourse about whether 555 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: or not I am a less than human being than 556 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: somebody like Charlie Kirk because I'm a black woman. 557 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: And furthermore, I just have to push back. 558 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: On the idea that newsom raises here that I've seen 559 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: repeated like it's repeated in the Ezra Cline piece called 560 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: Charlie Kirkton Politics the Right Way that basically posits that 561 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: kirk was good and virtuous because he was willing to 562 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: engage in debate, not set aside for a moment that 563 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: always wanting to debate others isn't an inherently moral or 564 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: virtuous stance. 565 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: And like the most. 566 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: Annoying people you know probably are like, oh, I love 567 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: to debate. But also, Charlie kirk was a grown man 568 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: whose bread and butter was going to college campuses and 569 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: debating students teenagers. 570 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 2: That's what he was doing in Utah. 571 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: His whole thing was not standing toe to toe with 572 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: experts or peers or people with the same access and 573 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: resources he had. He built his brand on picking fights 574 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: with kids who are still figuring out who they were, 575 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: and parading those interactions online as if he had scored 576 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: some great intellectual victory to personally enrich himself. Why do 577 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 1: we then have to pretend that that is moral and noble? 578 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: And that's why I think this moment is such a 579 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: dizzying one for me. I know, I've been all over 580 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: the place in this conversation because genuinely, I'm something is 581 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: broken inside of me. I think we're seeing all these 582 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: people and institutions lionizing Kirk. And I'm not even saying 583 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: that they shouldn't more, and if that's what they feel 584 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: they have to do, but lionizing him and whitewashing his 585 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: hateful rhetoric and reckless tactics that hurt people really makes 586 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: clear how much these mainstream institutions were not really put 587 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: off by the kind of life that he actually lived 588 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: and the kinds of things that he actually said and 589 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: stood for. And it's a reminder that these systems around 590 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: us will always celebrate power and spectacle and influence over accountability, 591 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: and that they will reward people who harm others if 592 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: they do it loudly enough or strategically enough, where they 593 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 1: do it while they're like young and have kids and 594 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 1: a family. But for the rest of us, the ones 595 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: who I don't know want to call out harm or inequality, 596 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: it feels like the rules are entirely different. You know, 597 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: these are the same people that have spent the last 598 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: decade saying fuck your feelings as a rally and cry 599 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: and I saw a great tweet that put it very well, 600 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,840 Speaker 1: but said no, no, no, no, no, you misunderstood. 601 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 2: I said, fuck your feelings. 602 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 1: My feelings are very important and must be handled gently 603 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: like a tiny baby hummingbird. And that is exactly what's 604 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: going on here. I think it's fuck our feelings, but 605 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: their feelings. 606 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 2: Have to be treated with respect or else. 607 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: How Our deaths are political, their's are national tragedies. It's 608 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: their free speech rice to say whatever they want about us, 609 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: but if we verbalize a problem with it, we end 610 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: up on a list. Our heroes will be removed from 611 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: history books on government websites, but we will be forced 612 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: to mourn their heroes or else. As I'm recording this, 613 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: the police have just announced that they have an alleged 614 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: shooter in custody. So far, all I know right now 615 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: is that he's a young man who lives in Utah, 616 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 1: not far from campus, and he was turned in by 617 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: his father after he confessed, So the FBI, it sounds like, 618 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: did not really play a huge role here. I'm sure 619 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: that we will learn more, but as of right now, 620 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: we don't know a ton. We don't know why you 621 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: pulled the trigger, or even if it was really him. 622 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: And I just have to say that this is one 623 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: of those times that I genuinely fear that our country 624 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: is heading down an increasingly violent path, and this feels 625 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 1: like another big step in that violent direction. The way 626 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: that people so quickly galvanized around lionizing Charlie Kirk, lying 627 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: about Charlie Kirk, using his death as a way to 628 00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: bash trans people and further target and surveill and harass them, 629 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: use their death to call for war, all of that. 630 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: It just really I'm quite unnerved in this moment. 631 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: And now that we know that the killer is a 632 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 1: white guy from a Republican family, we're watching so many 633 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: people who were talking tough about wanting to start a 634 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: war with the left and trans people in this and that, 635 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 1: and Democrats basically walk that back without any kind of 636 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: public accountability of why they rushed to say stuff like 637 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: that when we didn't know anything about what happened. Yet, 638 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: for all the handwringing about trans people, the suspect is 639 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: a white guy from a Republican family. So we're already 640 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: seeing how those same voices who were calling for blood 641 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: when they suspected the suspect could have been a trans 642 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: person have now totally changed their tune. Here's what Nancy 643 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: May said before we knew any information about the killer whatsoever. 644 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,479 Speaker 2: And I'm kind of a problem with politic political violence 645 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 2: across the spectrum. Yeah, we're talking about Charlie Kirk right now. 646 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 2: That's the subject of this that we're talking about right now. 647 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 4: Democrats own this one. 648 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: And now that it turns out the killer is a 649 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: white guy from a Republican family, she says, we all 650 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: know Charlie Kirk would want us to pray for such 651 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: an evil and lost individual like Tyler Robinson to find 652 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. 653 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: We will do the same. 654 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: And I say all of this to say that we 655 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: can condemn violence. We can condemn what happened to Charlie 656 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: Kirk without rewriting the record of who Kirk was or 657 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: what he actually stood for. Because violence does not wash 658 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: hate clean, It does not make bigotry noble, it does 659 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: not turn cruelty into courage. We have a public record 660 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: of the things that Kirk stood for, the things that 661 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,319 Speaker 1: he said, the things that he did. We don't have 662 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,600 Speaker 1: to forget all of that because it makes it easier 663 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: for the powers that be. I want to close with 664 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: the words of poet Lucille Clifton. They ask me to 665 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,120 Speaker 1: remember that. They want me to remember their memories, and 666 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: I keep on remembering mine. We do have a news 667 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: roundup for you all, featuring a very cool guest, co 668 00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 1: host Ashley Ray of the podcast. 669 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 2: I say it's a fun one. 670 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: I promise you will hear that next week, so please 671 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: stick around. 672 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. 673 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or 674 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,359 Speaker 1: just want to say hi? You can reach us at 675 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 1: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts 676 00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: for today's episode at tenggody dot com. There Are No 677 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd. 678 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: It's a production of iHeartRadio, an unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland 679 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: is our executive producer. Tarry Harrison is our producer and 680 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. Edited by 681 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 1: Joey pat I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want 682 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,320 Speaker 1: to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. 683 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, 684 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:55,360 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.