1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,519 Speaker 1: Before we get started. This episode discusses sexual abuse in suicide. 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Please take care while listening. 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: It was just one of the most painful and traumatizing, humiliating, 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: degrading experiences my life. 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: Paris Ultan was nineteen when an intimate private video of 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: herself was released to the world without her consent in 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: the gossip magazines. It was a scandal, but in reality 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: it was abuse. 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: It was like being digitally raped and having the whole 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: world watching it and laughing, and I just felt just 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: so ashamed when that shame should never been on me, 12 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: And yeah, that's something that I'll have to live with 13 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: for the rest of my life. 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: In two thousand and four, in the early days of 15 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: the Internet, Paris's one video was viewed millions of times. 16 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: The widespread distribution of that sexually explicit video was non consensual. 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: And today we're experiencing a new version of this reality, 18 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: except this time you don't even have to take a 19 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: real photo or a video with AI. 20 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 3: All you have to do is exist. 21 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 2: Now that it's happening today, and you don't even have 22 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: to know the person that can literally just take your 23 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: photo and just make it as just terrifying. 24 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: Once again, Paris's likeness is being used without her consent, 25 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: but this time it's AI generated and it's appearing on 26 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: sites like Mister Deep Fakes and beyond. 27 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: It's very triggering now to see it happening, even at 28 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 2: a larger scale, with strangers all around the world who 29 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: I've never even met, and there's a one hundred something 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 2: thousand deep fake images of me. It's just disgusting. And 31 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: what also hurts me so much is that these are 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 2: not real images, but people don't know that. People, if 33 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 2: they don't understand AI, they would just assume it's real. 34 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: And I've worked so hard just really changed that image 35 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 2: of me because it never should have been that. You know, 36 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: what happened with me was someone I was nineteen. I 37 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: was in a serious relationship. I trusted him, and that 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 2: was so long ago, and it's I feel like it's 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: something that's haunted me my whole life, so now for 40 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: it to be happening again, but on such a larger scale, 41 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: it's just it's so humiliated. That's why it's you know, 42 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: even though it's uncomfortable to talk about, you know, I'm 43 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: speaking out for all these other women and children who 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: are having to deal with this right now so that 45 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: they can have some justice. 46 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I'd seen this story before, the one where tech 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: moves fast, the laws haven't caught up, and women are 48 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: the first victims. What happened to Paris in the early 49 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: two thousands was a predictor of what would come and 50 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: now her deep fake abuse is symbolic of the reality 51 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: we live in today, and that's what brought us together. 52 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: I don't understand how it's legal for there's to be 53 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 2: all these apps that are coming up now and websites 54 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 2: where people can do this to others, because it could 55 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 2: really ruin someone's life and destroy their confidence, destroy their future. 56 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Siegel, and you're listening to Mostly Human, a 57 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: tech podcast through a human lens. This is searching for 58 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: Mister Deep Fakes Part four. 59 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 3: This one was okay. This is when we heard the. 60 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: Heartbeat, which, like that is so wild that at the 61 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: moment that's really cool. Yeah, that's my husband John. As 62 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: you can tell, something pretty big happened. A month after 63 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: we got back from finding the operator behind mister deep 64 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: Fakes in Canada, John and I found out we were 65 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: going to have a baby. The Journey to Stop Deep 66 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Fake Abuse felt even more urgent now it was personal. 67 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: I realize that it's not enough to go find the guy. 68 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: We have to help people see the thing they're not 69 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 1: seeing yet. Politicians, folks who can move the needle. And 70 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: then I think, as a mom it just makes it like. 71 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: All of it just feels urgent. 72 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, a win is like being able to not just 73 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: take down mister deep Fakes, but like fundamentally change, like 74 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: the like the process that enables these types of things 75 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 1: to exist. You know, something that really makes it so 76 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: other people have recourse if this happens to them. 77 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 4: You've got to remember you are putting blocks in the foundation. 78 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 4: I think it's really important to keep that perspective of 79 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 4: change because there's a lot of different ingredients and change. 80 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 4: There are seeds. There's the dirt, there's the water, there's 81 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 4: the sunshine, and I think what you're creating now is 82 00:04:59,520 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: the seed. 83 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: After talking to David Does back in Canada, we had 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: a new resolve for this investigation. We came back with 85 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:10,559 Speaker 1: this thought to create actual change, we had to cast 86 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: a wide net and talk to as many people as 87 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: possible about this. 88 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 3: This is round two of our investigation. Round one was 89 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 3: finding mister d Finks. 90 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: Round two is like, how do we actually create change. 91 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 3: We have like a whole little war room set up, 92 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 3: so we put. 93 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: Together are good guy hackers who helped us track mister 94 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: d Fikes. Now we're putting together essentially like a team 95 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: of policy folks, celebrities, you name it, folks who can 96 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: help us, like we think move the needle forward. 97 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 5: So it's legal action, legislative change, and cultural change, like 98 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 5: all working in concert, not just one. 99 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:49,359 Speaker 3: But it's a big task. 100 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 1: My first step was Casey Mock, who at the time 101 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: was the senior policy director at the Center for Humane Technology. 102 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 5: This is set up to have that army of mister 103 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 5: d fix grow kind of automatically by default. 104 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 6: There's a pipeline. 105 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 5: Here where now you know, young men largely will be 106 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 5: given access to these newification apps. They'll be playing with it, 107 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 5: and you know, they make one deep fake of someone 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 5: that they know, someone of classmate. 109 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 7: And they're in. 110 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 5: They're in it, and they may try to figure out 111 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 5: ways that they can either do it themselves or monetize 112 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 5: it or whatever, and then they're like in the system. 113 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 5: They're a member of that army. And it seems like, 114 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,119 Speaker 5: you know, the hosts of the website and the people 115 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 5: behind it are more than willing to train people up 116 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 5: to be able to do this themselves, right, to generate 117 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 5: their own content. And so it has this like flywheel 118 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 5: effect where it's if we do nothing right, that army 119 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 5: is just going to grow, right. 120 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: I think that's the fear right. 121 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: So it's like, how do we take all of the 122 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: stuff that we learn and actually create change? 123 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: And I think this is like what you've done your 124 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 3: whole career, right, which is. 125 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: Like take some of these like heartbreaking things, but also 126 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: helped push forward go behind closed doors in DC, like 127 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: talk to the right people to try to push forward policies. 128 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 5: You've been covering tech for more than a decade, and 129 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 5: like you've seen stuff that policy advocates have never seen. 130 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 5: Like you've had conversations that they haven't had access to, 131 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 5: So you have information that's very valuable to policymakers. 132 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: On the legislative side, there'd been some movement. In the 133 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: summer of twenty twenty four, two federal bills to Take 134 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: It Down Act and the Defiance Act were introduced. They 135 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: work toward different things, criminalizing the creation of AI generated 136 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: images on the one hand, and providing civil recourse for 137 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: victims on the other but. 138 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 6: This is not innovation. This is a twenty first century 139 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 6: version of sexual abuse and child sexual abuse. 140 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: But some weren't waiting for federal progress. 141 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: The San Francisco Attorney's Office filed an unprecedented case against 142 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: sixteen neuification websites that were targeting everyday people. That case 143 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: was led by San Francisco City Attorney David Chu and 144 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: Chief Deputy City Attorney A von Meir. 145 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 8: We are trained as lawyers that there is a system 146 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 8: of justice and when something unlawful happens, or something unfair happens, 147 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 8: there's a remedy that you can be sought in our course. 148 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 6: As soon as we filed this lawsuit, I was contacted 149 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 6: by colleagues of mine from the California State legislature as 150 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 6: well as from other places around the country who are 151 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 6: interested in this space. It's not enough to pass a law. 152 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 6: You need to have the ability to enforce that law. 153 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 6: And I think one thing that's clear is a lot 154 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 6: of these laws were passed with the intent of trying 155 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 6: to assist victims in vindicating their rights, but the victims 156 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 6: have found it to be incredibly difficult to get justice 157 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 6: for themselves and their situations, which is why we felt 158 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 6: so compelled to step in. 159 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 9: We are never going to be able in these kinds 160 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 9: of cases to sue everyone. It is a powerful whole tool, 161 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 9: but we need partners and we need to raise awareness. 162 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: What do you think needs to happen from a legal 163 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: standpoint to actually make it so we are safer online 164 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: in this kind of deep fake era. 165 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 10: Well, my position has always been that we have to 166 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 10: be holding the platforms responsible. 167 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: Kerry Goldberg is a lawyer who's been helping victims of 168 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: digital abuse for decades. 169 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 10: They are always going to be bad actors that pedal 170 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 10: in other people's nudity, whether that's deep fakes or revenge 171 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 10: porn or sextortion, and so yes, I want criminal laws 172 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 10: to punish the individual actors, but I also want I 173 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 10: want victims to be able to go after the platforms 174 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 10: that are accommodating these kinds of bad actors and are 175 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 10: like minting money off of it. 176 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: Our coalition was growing at home and abroad in the 177 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: winter of twenty twenty five, connected with partners at the 178 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: Home Office in the UK. 179 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 11: Thank you so much all for joining, and truly is 180 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 11: a really special group of expertise that we have today. 181 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,359 Speaker 1: British policymakers had taken a strong lead on the issue, 182 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: announcing plans to criminalize sexually explicit defikes to the point 183 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: where mister Dee Fakes was now blocked in the country. 184 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: They thought to criminalize not just the dissemination of this 185 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: type of material, but also the creation of it. 186 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 11: Very illuminating information that Laurie and Nicole have been uncovering 187 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 11: through a multi year investigation. At this point into the 188 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 11: mister deep Fakes website, which as we all know, is 189 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:42,599 Speaker 11: a very very pivotal force in the deep fake and 190 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 11: CIA HOWM landscape. 191 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: It felt like we had momentum, but we also felt 192 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: the urgency for legal, societal and for cultural change to 193 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: move even faster, because just as we had feared deep 194 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: fake abuse was spreading into more vulnerable places our schools, 195 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: now it was affecting the youngest generation coming of age 196 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: with Ai. 197 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 3: He's like, do you want to see the image? 198 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 12: Like very cautiously the way he spoke, like, do you 199 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 12: want to see the image of your daughter? 200 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: Nadia Kahn Roberts is in a small room and the 201 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 1: police station near her home in Miami, Florida, and A 202 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: detective is handing her a thick binder of images, and I. 203 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 12: Said, yes, I want to see it. 204 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: The detective opens the binder and Nadia feels an immediate 205 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: wave of nausea. 206 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 3: Like oh my god. 207 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 12: I started crying. 208 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: As Nadia's body is flooded with shock. The detective asks 209 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: for something nobody else had. 210 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 12: He looks at me in the eyes and he goes, 211 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 12: do you want to press charges? And I said, yes, absolutely, 212 00:11:58,640 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 12: I want to press charges. 213 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: The nightmare for Nadia begins. 214 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: Right before Christmas break twenty twenty three, Nadia, a Spanish 215 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 1: teacher at a local high school, gets a panicked call 216 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: from her thirteen year old daughter in the middle of 217 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: the day. 218 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 3: She called me first. 219 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 12: When she was called down to the office, she was 220 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 12: crying and she says, I need you to come pick 221 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 12: me up right now. 222 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 3: I need to leave. 223 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 12: And I was like, okay, well I'm at work. She's like, 224 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 12: you don't understand. I need to leave. I saw a picture. 225 00:12:26,679 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 12: I saw a picture and then I'm very freaking out. 226 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 12: I'm like, what picture? What are you talking about? A 227 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 12: picture of me naked? And I'm like what, No, but 228 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 12: it's not really me. Mom, And she couldn't even really 229 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 12: piece stores together because she was having an anxiety attack. 230 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 1: Nadia drove down to the school and the story quickly unfolded. 231 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: Two boys at her daughter's middle school had been caught 232 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: exchanging AI generated nude photos of their female classmates. 233 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 12: I'm finding out that there's ten twelve. 234 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 13: Thirteenth, fourteen, fifteen, up to fifteen girls they did this too. 235 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 12: Then wait no, there was a teacher they did it 236 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 12: too as well. 237 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 3: Wait no, there's another, And I'm like. 238 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: Whoa more than a dozen girls at least two teachers. 239 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 1: Their images were run through an ai utification app by 240 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: two boys from well respected, hard working families in the community. 241 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: The school called the police and suspended the boys, unsure 242 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: of how to deal with something so new that many 243 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: of them had never even. 244 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: Heard of before. 245 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: After the Christmas break, the boys would return to the 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: classes with the girls they deep faked. 247 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,199 Speaker 3: Nadia's daughter was panicked at the thought. 248 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:37,680 Speaker 14: She's freaking out, like nobody wants to be in a 249 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 14: room with essentially this an abuser, albeit not physical, right, 250 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 14: but the facological abuse. 251 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it is. 252 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 13: And I'm imagining myself right like having to face these 253 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 13: kids in the hallway. A lot of these girls have 254 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 13: classes with. 255 00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 14: These kids, and that's when I really just was like no, no, no, no. 256 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 3: No no. 257 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: Nadia eventually went to the police station to see the images, 258 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: the big binder of images the boys had created of 259 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: their classmates and teachers, and she was shocked by how 260 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: accurate this fake image of her daughter looked. 261 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 13: The skin color and the skin tone matched her face. 262 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 12: Like ninety nine point nine percent, and her private parts 263 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 12: were accentuated like exaggerated, unrealistic, but it's still it was 264 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 12: my daughter's face on this body with the same skin 265 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 12: color tone that I got nauseous and wanted to vomit, 266 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 12: and I started crying because my kid had to see 267 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 12: it first alone, without the presence of her parents or 268 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 12: guardian with her. 269 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: The police told her this could be treated as a 270 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: sex crime child pornography. If they got enough of the 271 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: parents to press charges, they would arrest the boys. Nadia 272 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: spoke to other parents and one of the teachers who 273 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: had been deep faked. It wasn't an easy choice, but 274 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: eventually enough people were on board and the boys were arrested. 275 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 15: I remember when we were facing that decision, I felt 276 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 15: the gravity of it. 277 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 3: Luke is the thirteen year old girl's father. 278 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 15: It was a really big deal for us. You know, 279 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 15: these are thirteen year old boys, and I couldn't help 280 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 15: but think about the other side. They're getting, you know, 281 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 15: charged with a sex crime that could follow the rest 282 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 15: of their life. 283 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 3: So it was it was heavy, but we didn't hesitate. 284 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 16: We knew it was the right thing to do. 285 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: This was the first case of its kind in the 286 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: United States where charges were actually filed. But what was 287 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: painfully clear about this nightmare to Nadia Luke and others 288 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: was something else had to change. The cultural mindset around 289 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: creating set actually explicit deep fakes in the first place. 290 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: Kids teens, They needed to understand that this was wrong, 291 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: that this type of abuse. 292 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 3: Hurt and it caused real world harm. 293 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 17: Our children are all the front lines of the war 294 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 17: that we didn't even know anything about. 295 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: And we have to get in a fight. 296 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: John and his wife Shannon understand the stakes now too. 297 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: They also have teenagers twin sixteen year olds, Palin and 298 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 1: Elijah or Eli. 299 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 18: She straight a student, wants to go to medical school. 300 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 18: Ali was our Tornado. 301 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 17: There's nothing common about the war now. 302 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: The family lives in a small country town in Kentucky. 303 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty five, Palin and Eli were looking 304 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: forward to prom Eli was about to start the spring 305 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: tennis season. He wanted to help the team go to 306 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: State this year. Everything seemed normal when Shannon and John 307 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: went to bed on February twenty seventh. 308 00:16:56,200 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 18: And within an hour and a half, his sister and 309 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 18: woke us up and totus Eli was hurt. 310 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: Eli had died by suicide, and they had no clue. 311 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: Why how did a well adjusted teenager go from prepping 312 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 1: for tennis and prom to ending his own life. As 313 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: paramedics took Eli from his home, Shannon's eyes were drawn 314 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: to his phone. She went into his messages and found 315 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 1: a picture that looked like Eli's face. It was on 316 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,359 Speaker 1: a naked body, but something looked a little bit off. 317 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 18: I guess was supposed to be Eli. It was Eli's features, 318 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 18: but it was like so white, I'm talking like a 319 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 18: piece of paper white. 320 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: Cops and soon the FBI went through the phone and 321 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: told the parents they believed it to be a case 322 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: of sextortion. In the rising tide of cybercrime, boys in 323 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: Eli's adrange were being targeted by scammers who traditionally posed 324 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 1: as female. Else they'd get boys to send nude photos 325 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: of themselves and then they blackmail them with those photos. 326 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: But AI turbocharges that abuse. The victim no longer needs 327 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: to be tricked into sending any intimate photo of themselves. 328 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: Scammers can now send an AI generated picture to a 329 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: victim and threaten to ruin their lives if they don't 330 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: pay up. And this is what Eli's parents believe happened. 331 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: The scammers wanted three thousand dollars. Eli could only send fifty. 332 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 17: I know him from top to bottom. There's nothing about 333 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 17: that picture that matched. But you can't tell that to 334 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,120 Speaker 17: his friends at school. You can't tell that to his principal. 335 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,959 Speaker 17: They don't know. Imagine being a sixteen year old child 336 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 17: and they're getting correct by multiple people. Texts after text 337 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 17: after message after message of that's not enough money. You 338 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 17: better give us our money. You don't give us our money. 339 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 17: Your parents are going to see this, Your grandparents are 340 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 17: going to see your friends at school, your principal, everybody's 341 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 17: going to see this. And that's the pressure that Eli 342 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 17: was under. 343 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 18: Fifty dollars for my son's life, fifty dollars. It was 344 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 18: all who has worked to these people. 345 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: In early twenty twenty five, it felt like we actually 346 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: had momentum. 347 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: Pressure was mounting. 348 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: We just kept pushing out our story and talking to 349 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: the media and to politicians and to leaders in the space. 350 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: And then in February twenty twenty five, I had my son, Charlie. 351 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: I talked about this period with my producers, Roxy and Nicole, 352 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: and I remember I was like, all, right, away, message 353 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: is going up, like Matt leave Yay, you can breathe. 354 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: And then something happened in May of twenty twenty five, 355 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,360 Speaker 1: and that something was kind of the thing that we've 356 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: been waiting on for a long time. 357 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 3: Do y'all remember that day? 358 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 19: I do. I think you called like a group FaceTime situation. 359 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: Uh. 360 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 19: And I was like probably walking Leo in like a 361 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 19: baby carrier on me, and it was raining, and I 362 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 19: was holding the umbrella and trying to like hold the phone, 363 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 19: but you said that it was really important, so we 364 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 19: had to get on. 365 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: It was a zoom call with Roxy, me, Roxy's husband Tony, 366 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: and Nicole just wanted to give like a teeny bit 367 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: of breaking news. 368 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 3: Mister deep Wakes is officially shut down. 369 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 19: The whole website. 370 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 3: Whole website, the whole website is gone, like the when 371 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 3: I think it was late last night, I think this 372 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 3: is it's gone for good. I like generally like gone 373 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 3: for good. I don't think it's coming back. 374 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: Wow, seven years, thousands of victims, over one point five 375 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 1: billion in videos, but finally the largest deep fake porn 376 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: site on the Internet was gone. Do you remember the 377 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: message on the site? 378 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 3: It said like it. 379 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 20: Was like a critical service provider has been lost. All 380 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 20: the data has been lost. This is permanent, and like 381 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 20: anyone who creates another site their copycats. 382 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: And so a couple of things had happened ahead of that, right, 383 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: beginning with like, let's go back a year when we 384 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: literally I believe we were the first people to show 385 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: up at his door at his workplace to show that 386 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: he could no longer do this anonymously. Right, I think 387 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: that was an important data point. Laws started getting passed. 388 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: They basically cut off access to the UK because it 389 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 1: would be breaking the law. Now, all of a sudden, 390 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: like that puts pressure on payment providers who are no 391 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: longer available on mister deep fakes. All of a sudden, 392 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: it puts pressure on advertisers, It puts pressure on tech platforms, 393 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: Google deranked the site. So the first thing you saw 394 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: wasn't a sexually explicit deep fake of yourself. 395 00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 3: When you googled your name. 396 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: And then the week that it went down to take 397 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: it down at pass, which was the first federal law 398 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: the targeting deep fakes. And then the CBC, another news organization, 399 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: had done an investigation into David Doe and the man 400 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: behind mister deep fakes. So if I could look at 401 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: this and say, well, what actually caused the site to 402 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: go down, it always comes down to the word friction. 403 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 3: There was friction that was created. 404 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: That made a site like this, a site that people 405 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: told us was an inevitability that okay, welcome to this 406 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: new AI era. 407 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 3: This is just an inevitability. It doesn't have to be. 408 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: All of these little things that might seem on their 409 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: own inconsequential together created this wave of change that I 410 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: believe is a playbook for the future. As for its 411 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: suspected operator, David Doe was placed on leave at the 412 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: hospital and there's a pending hearing for professional misconduct. The 413 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: Netherlands and Denmark wade ex tradition, and we contacted multiple 414 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: law enforcement agencies in Canada. None reported active investigations. When 415 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,719 Speaker 1: I asked Casey Mock what could come of David Doe, 416 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: he said it was a complicated case. 417 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 5: It depends on where certain things are hosted or living 418 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 5: or incorporated right like you found him in Canada. That 419 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 5: complexifies the issue a lot. It would take a creative prosecutor, 420 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 5: I think, to put the operator of this website in 421 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 5: prison right now. 422 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: We spoke to Canadian legal experts who agreed. They said 423 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: there could always be pathways to accountability, but it was 424 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: by no means straightforward. Carry Goldberg, or law expert in 425 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: digital abuse, said that one avenue for victim recourse could 426 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: come from the fact that we had evidence mister deep 427 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: Fakes was both the platform operator and a creator himself. 428 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 10: So the trick in holding an individual liable is showing 429 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 10: that he actually was the one creating the content. If 430 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 10: mister deep Fake was himself actually creating the deep fakes 431 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 10: and posting those, than absolutely one hundred percent people could 432 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 10: be holding David liable for that. 433 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: As of the release of this story, David Doe has 434 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,880 Speaker 1: not been convicted or charged with any crime. We've reached 435 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: out to him repeatedly over the last two years, but 436 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 1: he has yet to respond to any of our requests 437 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 1: for comment. We had worried that mister deep Fakes was 438 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: the canary in the coal mine. Unfortunately, deep fake abuse 439 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: was now mainstream. It doesn't end with David Doe, and 440 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't end with mister deep Fakes going down. The 441 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: work continues. We wanted to push the story of mister 442 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: deep Fakes out to as big of an audience as possible, 443 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: which meant going to the big streamers, but we heard 444 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: the same thing. Executive after executive had every excuse for 445 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,919 Speaker 1: why this issue wasn't exactly made for TV audiences. But 446 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: we pressed on and in January twenty twenty six, a 447 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: new advocate came onto the scene. 448 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 21: It's the newest form of victimization happening at scale to 449 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 21: your daughters, your sisters, your friends, and neighbors. A staggering 450 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 21: one in eight girls today are experiencing the harms of 451 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 21: AI generated deep fake porn. 452 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: Paris Halton joined Representative Alexandria Ocasio Coorts in support of 453 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: the Defiance Act, which was still since July twenty twenty four, 454 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: stalled in the house. 455 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,199 Speaker 21: I hear from teenage girls who are terrified to go 456 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 21: to school because they know a deep fake of them 457 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 21: is circulating. I hear from women who are scared to 458 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 21: run for office, to apply for jobs, to speak publicly, 459 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 21: because they know how easily their image can be weaponized 460 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 21: against them. Too many women are afraid to exist online, 461 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 21: or sometimes to exist at all. And I know how 462 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,719 Speaker 21: that feels because I've lived it. 463 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: I remember like seeing this clip of Paris Hilton, like 464 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: dressed to the nines, like very Paris Hilton esque, like 465 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill and talking about this and advocating for this, 466 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: and I remember or because we'd been sitting out there 467 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: for so long, being like trying to tell people, knock 468 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 1: on doors and say we help us get the story out, 469 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: like it's important. And I remember turning to my husband 470 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: we were in the elevator and saying to John, like, 471 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: I think we should just partner with Paris Hilton and 472 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: get it out through Paris, like she has an incredible platform. 473 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: And he was like, do you know Paris? 474 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: And I was like, no, those are details, but like 475 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: we can track down mister Defix. 476 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:24,720 Speaker 3: We can track down Paris Hilton. 477 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 20: And we always like for the entire time when we 478 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 20: were like how do we have maximized impact of this story? 479 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 20: Were like, would there be somebody or somebody's who could 480 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 20: we could team up with and kind of grow this 481 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 20: this movement together. And so I think that moment at 482 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,919 Speaker 20: the beginning of this year where we saw Paris was 483 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 20: like a light bulb that went off of Wow, this 484 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 20: could be the way to take this beyond mister d fix. 485 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: And so we ended up connecting with her team and 486 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: showed them the materials and I have to say, like 487 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: they moved, and they moved quick, and Paris got involved 488 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: in a big way, and we ended up speaking to 489 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 1: Paris and like that. Do you all remember like we 490 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: were at the New York Stock Exchange on International Women's 491 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: Day with Paris Hilton and Gloria steynem. 492 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 20: I mean, there was just so much around it that 493 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 20: was kind of like reclaiming the story. Everyone who was 494 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 20: like a victim in this like really came out as 495 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 20: like a strong advocate for change. And that's what it 496 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 20: felt like when we connected with like with Paris. 497 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like you're speaking another language to someone. 498 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: So I just have to say the idea that we 499 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: could have Paris Hilton as part of the army is 500 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: I would just say, like to borrow a phrase from 501 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: you iconic, So thank you for doing this and thank 502 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: you for helping us with this mission. I'm curious why 503 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 1: it's personal to you. 504 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 2: This work is definitely personal to me, just from what 505 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: I experienced nineteen when there were no laws to protect me. 506 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: So if I can really turn my pain into a 507 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 2: purpose once again and make it so that other girls 508 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 2: don't have to go through what I went through, that's 509 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,240 Speaker 2: so meniqual to me. So I'll do whatever in my 510 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 2: power i can to help. 511 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: People always say to me, oh, you know, if you 512 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: take down mister d fakes, it's just okay, we'll whack 513 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: them all. And I just think, like, that's such a 514 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: boring argument. Like if we take down a site where 515 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: eighteen million people are going and it's teaching young men 516 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: how to do this, and in the process we help 517 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,239 Speaker 1: change laws and we can tell people that this is 518 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: actually this matters. 519 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 2: And then it you know, tears people from doing it 520 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 2: because they're going to know there actually is consequences if 521 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 2: they think, oh, you can just get away with this. 522 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: Of course, people are going to make more sites, but 523 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: if they see make them an example. 524 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: Of mister d Figs, it's if you are able to 525 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: do this in the dark. It's in the darkness that 526 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: this thing thrives. And exposing this, exposing mister deep fakes, 527 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: exposing the pain and abuse that is the real world 528 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: impact of this new technology, and seeing how this is going, 529 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: I think that's that's, you. 530 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 3: Know, our biggest help. 531 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: Talking about it is a way to make people understand 532 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 2: the impact it has on people's lives. Really makes a difference. 533 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 2: And now for me, you know, when this happened, I 534 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: was just taught to stay silent, like, don't bring any attention, 535 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 2: don't give it oxygen like. So now to be able 536 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: to use my voice, it's been that journey. 537 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: Because in the beginning it was just I couldn't. 538 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: Even talk about it. I was like, I just want 539 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: to pretend this never happened. But now knowing it's happening 540 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: to millions millions of people around the world, just can't 541 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 2: stay silent. 542 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: It's even more personal now that she's a mom. 543 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 7: Just becoming a mother has changed my life in so 544 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 7: many ways and really made me think about the future 545 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 7: of what I want for my kids, and the fact 546 00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 7: that I'm able. 547 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: To help shape that future is incredibly powerful. 548 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: Paris wanted to help us take our story to the 549 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: main stage. We partnered with her and her company eleven 550 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: eleven Media, and we turned our investigation into a groundbreaking 551 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: fourteen part TikTok series in late May twenty twenty six. 552 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 2: I'm Paris Hilton and I'm teaming up with journalist Lorie 553 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: Siegel to take the story. 554 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 3: And the impact of this abuse. 555 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: Reached thirty two million views, and the best part we 556 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,400 Speaker 1: started hearing from so many people parents, other survivors and 557 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: folks who wanted to help. 558 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: But Paris and I weren't done. 559 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: Just as our TikTok series was launching into the world, 560 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: we teamed up to bring our deep fake findings into 561 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: the room where laws are made. 562 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 3: So we're going right now see if we can get 563 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 3: this passed no pressure. 564 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: I was about to testify for a bill in California 565 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: that would strengthen protection for victims of deep fakes. 566 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 22: This bill creates a framework to hold AI users accountable 567 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,280 Speaker 22: by creating legal standing. 568 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: Senator Angelique Ashby was the one to introduce SB eleven 569 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: eleven to the California legislature. 570 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 22: For victims and defining the boundaries of AI technology. SB 571 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 22: eleven eleven establishes violations in the Right of Publicity law 572 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 22: and false impersonation law for using a person's voice or 573 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 22: likeness to create a digital replica without their consent. As 574 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 22: technology changes, California must continue to advance our efforts and 575 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 22: our standards to protect against AI abuse and violence and 576 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 22: those who are impacted by it. 577 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 3: And then it was my turn. My name is Lori Siegel. 578 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: I'm an investigative reporter. 579 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: I had the complicated task of boiling a year long 580 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: investigation down to two minutes. The images may be fake, 581 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: but from years in the trenches covering this type of abuse, 582 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: I cannot emphasize this enough. 583 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 3: The impact is real. 584 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 5: Bring back to the committee for questions, comments or motion Cortesi. 585 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 23: Yeah, I uh well, one, I was going to move 586 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 23: the bill, and two I just appreciate the author for 587 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 23: bringing this forward. Honestly, it's it is utterly terrifying to 588 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 23: just see what's been happening with AI and the way 589 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 23: that it's been weaponized against women, against children. It's it's 590 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 23: just chilling because it could happen to any single one 591 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 23: of us. 592 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 3: And then a vote. 593 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 5: Okay, we have a motion which is to pass to 594 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 5: the floor of. 595 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 3: The Senate floor. Please call the role SB eleven eleven. 596 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 17: Ashby motion is deep passed to the floor at agen 597 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 17: atagen I Sarto, Sarto, I Cavirio, Cortesi, GRTSI, I Perez, Perez, I. 598 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 6: Wiener, keep that bill and call wraps and members. 599 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 24: Thank you very much. 600 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: Honestly, like, how cool is it that I was talking 601 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: to David David's back and like now I'm talking to 602 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: lawmakers and we just got something through. 603 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 3: My producer Roxy was there with me. 604 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 19: It was like not just screaming into a void. It 605 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 19: was like they read it, they listened to it, they 606 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 19: passed it, and then like yeah that we talked to 607 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 19: Senator Ashby about how what is next? How does it 608 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 19: go from what we are today to the next thing, 609 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 19: to the next thing, the next thing, And just knowing 610 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 19: that there are people one hundred percent voted and dedicated 611 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 19: to passing laws like that, it was like, Okay, Wow, 612 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 19: that's that's a whole nother part of the army that 613 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 19: we just peeked into. It's like we're using our tools, 614 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 19: which is media storytelling, you know, whatever journalism. They're using 615 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 19: their tools. You know, then victims or survivors are using 616 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 19: their voices. Like it was kind of like cool to 617 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 19: know that it's it had been. It felt like it 618 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 19: had just been us for a long time. Yeah, and 619 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 19: it definitely wasn't. And that felt cool to know that 620 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 19: there's all these other paths that to change that are happening. 621 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: And it was so cool because it was immediately past 622 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: the next phase. And I was emotional because it was like, Okay, 623 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 1: taking this and connecting these dots and then you begin 624 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: to really understand how change happens. What we learned is 625 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: that change doesn't happen in a vacuum, and it certainly 626 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: doesn't happen alone. It's through community and coalition building, but 627 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: also through the bravery of the survivors who speak out 628 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: and speak up. All of the people that you've heard 629 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: in this series, each one of them has turned their 630 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: pain into advocacy. Joanne and Los Angeles continues to share 631 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: her story across platforms. 632 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 24: It can be scary and nerve wracking to speak up 633 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 24: about it publicly, but at the same time, it's important 634 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 24: to take back our image. I feel like that's the 635 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 24: only way we can hopefully affect change. 636 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: As for Briton, Tennessee, I want to use my story. 637 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 3: My attorney asked me that once He's like, how far 638 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 3: do you want to take this? And it's like to 639 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 3: the very fucking edge. Thank yeah, it stops with me. 640 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 3: I want to make this better for other people. 641 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: She helped change laws in her state. Same with Molly 642 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: in Minnesota. 643 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: I cannot stand the idea. 644 00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 13: Of just letting it be. 645 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 3: We want to fight and I'm here for it. 646 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,240 Speaker 1: Shannon and John, whose son was a victim of sex stortion, 647 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: they won't stop either. 648 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 17: Unfortunately, we're not fighting for our son. Our son anxiety passed. 649 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 17: We're doing everything we can to make sure this doesn't 650 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 17: happen to somebody else's kid. 651 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: And Nadia and Luke, whose daughter was a victim of 652 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: deep fakes. They started a nonprofit to help victims, but 653 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: also educate teens to prevent this abuse from happening in 654 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: the first place. 655 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 16: How can we find teenagers who we can sort of 656 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 16: train on the ethics of AI and let them be 657 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 16: mentors to younger like preteens, and have these workshops and 658 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 16: these experiences so that it's not reactive, it's proactive, that 659 00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 16: we become sort of an entity of hope. 660 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: This is how we take this fight into the future. 661 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: We do it together. This story is an over We're 662 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: going to continue the conversation right here on this podcast. 663 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: We'll talk to experts, we'll bring your questions to leaders, 664 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: and we'll share the real world devastation that this digital 665 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: harm causes. We have already heard from people more victims 666 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: of deep fake abuse, and we're going to bring their 667 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: stories to this podcast. If you've been a victim of 668 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: deep fake abuse and you need help or resources, or 669 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,359 Speaker 1: you want to share your story, we want to hear 670 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: from you, go to beyondmisterdepfakes dot com. And if you've 671 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: got a tip something in the tech space that you 672 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: want investigated, find me on social media at mostly human 673 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: Media or email us at hello at mostlyhuman dot com. 674 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: Mostly Human is a production of iHeart podcasts Mostly Human Media. 675 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,200 Speaker 1: Searching for Mister de Fakes is a multi year investigation 676 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,280 Speaker 1: in partnership with BFD and eleven eleven Media. It's produced 677 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: and edited by Laurie Siegel, Nicole Bouchet, Lauren Hanson, aboo Zafar, 678 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 1: Roxy Hunt, and Tony Castle. Sound design and mixing by 679 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: Derek Clements and abou Zafar. If you want to see 680 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: our short form vertical docuseries on mister de fakes. Go 681 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: to mostly Human Media on TikTok or Paris Hilton's TikTok channel. 682 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 1: Find us all on socials at mostly human Media. You 683 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: can also watch mostly Human on our YouTube page, and 684 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch, please email us 685 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: at hello at mostly human dot com. 686 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 3: We'd love to hear from you. 687 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: Oh and please rate and review the show and share 688 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 1: it with your friends. 689 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 3: See you next week.