WEBVTT - The Godfather 0:00:01.960 --> 0:00:05.640 The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe Lebron and the 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:10.320 Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:26.639 with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for 0:00:26.720 --> 0:00:29.200 the honor of representing the United States in the two 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:36.240 thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:37.960 look forward to this for a while, you know it 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.800 to be in this position now here represent our country minutes, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:47.640 especially special Lebron James. We look for an opportunity of 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:49.720 the weekend on Alma being the best in the world. 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:53.279 I guess the Redeem Team is it is right, We're 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.200 the rest team in the world. We're the best team 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.840 in the world. We put Basketball America basketball Wheal defeat, 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:21.720 which is at the time can you hear that Godfather 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.680 like music in the background? I'm Jack McCallum, and we're 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.480 here in episode four of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.440 Team to talk about a Godfather figure who did a 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:37.640 humpty dumpty repair act on an American basketball program that 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.720 had fallen on hard times. Now, there are many reasons 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.119 why the Redeemed Team became the Redeemed Team, but one 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.640 of the big ones is Jerry Colangelo the Godfather, and 0:01:48.760 --> 0:01:52.560 that's the title of episode four. My co host is 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:57.720 Jay Adonde, who did the great podcast Beyond the Last Dance? Jay, 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.840 what has been your connection with the Godfather? Over the 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.480 anybody that covered the league pretty much came into contact 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:08.280 with Jerry Colangelo exactly. He was impossible to avoid if 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.080 you're around basketball basketball in general, in particularly the NBA. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:14.240 But I'd say the first time I really got a 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.400 taste of his power, and that was in two thousand 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:20.440 at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in Phoenix 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.320 that year and we had given one of our Pioneer Awards. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.280 The Sports Task Force gives Pioneer awards for people of 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:32.440 groundbreaking in that region, and so Jerry got one. Connie Hawkins, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.959 the Great Phoenix sun Star was was another recipient that year, 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.440 and we had bought tickets to an Arizona Diamondbacks game. 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:43.040 Of course, Colangelo was the man in charge of the Diamondbacks. 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.320 So we bought a block of tickets and we let 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:47.800 Jerry know about it, and he said, how many tickets 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:49.919 you get? We're like twenty in our block. He said, 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.920 I see way more than twenty people here. Do you. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:54.919 You guys need some more tickets? Like okay, Henny whips 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:56.600 out his cell phone. He's on the phone. He says, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.880 what about a sweet you guys want to sweep? Okay? Sure? 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:02.919 What do you want in there? Want some beers? Want 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.040 some chickens, some nachos? What do you want? Put in 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:09.680 our order? And boom, like in thirty seconds, done and 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.040 we go there. We had a suite. We get in there, 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:15.080 there's a big tub of beers. Diamondbacks were playing the 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.440 cub Sammy Sosa hit a couple of home runs. It 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:18.960 might have been the best time I've ever had at 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.280 a baseball game. And Jerry Colangelo made it happen in 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.960 about thirty seconds, just from start to finish. He hooked 0:03:25.960 --> 0:03:28.720 it up like that. So that's the power of Jerry Colangelo. 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:30.840 I got a quick lesson in that. Yep, that's what 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.799 you do when you're the godfather. But you know, before 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.320 we hear what he's done. Here's a very quick bio. 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.520 Jerry has owned, general, managed, and coached the Phoenix Suns. 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:45.040 He has owned the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball, 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:48.320 the Phoenix Mercury of the w n b A, the 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.880 Arizona sand Sharks of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, the 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.120 Arizona Rattlers of the Arena Football League, and he was 0:03:55.160 --> 0:04:00.560 instrumental in relocating the Winnipeg Jets to become the Phoenix Coyotes. 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.000 He built a program at Grand Canyon University, he was 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:09.240 chairman of the basketball operation for the seventies sixers, and 0:04:09.320 --> 0:04:12.440 he's been president of the NBA Board of Governors. And 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:14.680 that's not even the most interesting part of his bio. 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.599 J A. I'm not gonna say how old he is, 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.400 that's up to him. But let's just say he was 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:22.719 around long enough that he was going to be a 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.039 teammate of Wilt Chamberlain at the University of Kansas. This 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.800 was after wild had been there and Will decided to 0:04:30.880 --> 0:04:34.159 leave for the Harlem Globetrotters, and Jerry took one look 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.320 around and decided, without Wilt Chamberlain, I don't want to 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:41.159 be there either. He transferred to the University of Illinois, 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.680 where he became a very good big ten basketball player. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.920 So for a little background on why Jerry was so important, 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.800 we have to go back to those years around two 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:54.960 thousand three, two thousand four, JA, what was going on 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:57.719 why was he so needed to come along and save 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:01.880 the USA basketball program. Well, USA basketball falling on hard times, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.440 and it took about a decade since the advent of 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.480 NBA players into USA Basketball, and they were riding high 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.760 through three Olympics, but then it had fallen in and 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.839 starting with the two thousand two World Championships in America 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.320 in Indianapolis, the US losers there, and then of course 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.880 the fiasco of the third place finish in Athens at 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:27.839 the Olympics there in two thousand four. So just throwing 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:32.680 out NBA players wasn't enough. We needed a stronger regiment 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:37.080 and USA basketball needed more buy in from the top players. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:39.000 It was clear that in order to win the gold 0:05:39.040 --> 0:05:42.440 medal again they needed the best of American basketball players 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:45.480 to participate, not just American basketball players. That wasn't gonna 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.159 cut it anymore. They needed someone to get everyone in line, 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.080 to get buy in, to bring structure an organization, and 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.200 that's where Jerry Colangelo came in. Now, there's a theory 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.799 from the nineteenth century called the Great Man theory. Thomas 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.919 Carlyle thought of it, and he's Scottish, and I'm Scottish, 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.120 and that's probably why I remember it. Carlisle theorized that 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.360 history could be explained by the impact of great men, 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.320 that they come along at times of most need, that 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.040 they had divine inspiration, they had couraged, they had intellect, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.360 and they had leadership to make it really happen. Where 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.520 the hell they are during the pandemic, By the way, 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:24.680 I have no idea, But anyway, in terms of the 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.160 great man theory, if you look at the Redeemed team, 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.920 I suppose we could say it would be Mike Shaski, 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.640 who were going to be talking about in the next episode, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.240 or Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, who we've already discussed. 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.520 But the first one to come along to change the 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:44.440 course of USA basketball's history was Jerry Colangelo. And when 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:48.640 the invitation came along to lead USA basketball and reorganized 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.920 the program, it was a very inopportune time for Mr. Colangelo. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:57.000 First of all, All four was a very traumatic year 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:02.919 for me outside of watching the USA basketball team UH 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.080 not do very well in Greece. But I had made 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.320 a decision to h to sell the Suns that took 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:14.360 place in the middle of oh four. Not long after that, 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:18.160 I stepped down with the Diamondbacks, a few months later, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.400 I was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. I 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:24.520 took my wife to Europe got involved in the street 0:07:24.560 --> 0:07:28.160 fight on the streets of Paris when she was attacked 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:33.520 by two muggers, and that was an interesting evening because 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:36.960 we had plans in Paris, and as it turned up, 0:07:37.240 --> 0:07:39.280 my eyes were not in good shape when I was 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:44.000 pepper spray during this fight, and we had to spend 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.800 the night in the hotel. I did order a bottle 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.160 of champagne and pour two glasses, and I said to 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:52.880 my wife, we were both sixty five at the time. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.040 I said, you know, for two sixty five year olds, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:59.280 we handled ourselves pretty well. And I'm referring to the 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.840 fight that took place in front of a five star 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.320 hotel in Paris. And so I had a speaking engagement 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:10.160 in Chicago on the way back, and I made the comment, 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:12.600 I said, you know, it's been a very traumatic year. 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.000 There's still a little bit of time left in this year. 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:21.080 What's next? And soon thereafter I was advised I had 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:26.400 prostate cancer and had to make some major decisions in 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.200 terms of my health. Now. I was around Jerry in 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.480 those years a lot because I was researching a book 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.439 on the Phoenix Suns, which became seven seconds or less. 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.000 And I was impressed by the way the way Jerry 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.040 he had just sold the team, as he mentioned in 0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:43.160 his earlier quote to Robert Sarver, who did things, let's 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:45.800 just say a little differently now. He did leave his 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.280 son in place, Brian Colangelo was GM of the Sons. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.200 He later left also, But for a guy that was 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:55.040 really at the center of things, Jerry left that team 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.800 alone after he had sold it to Robert Sarver. Otherwise, though, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:04.640 he was always in the middle of the action, rules committees, controversies, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.760 TV negotiations, and I said earlier, he was chairman of 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:11.160 the Board of Governors of the NBA. And I was 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.960 surprised when we asked him why he had never been 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:18.320 invited before two thousand five to get involved with the 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.520 Olympic program. Here's what he said, I don't know, I'm 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.959 not sure. I'm not sure there was ever an invitation 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.240 to be involved with USA basketball. Well, there was a 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.800 need to have him now, and David Stern, then the commissioner, 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.160 usually left most of the work with USA Basketball to 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.640 his trusted lieutenant Russ Grantick, who is by the way 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:44.880 one of the truly underrated figures in our Olympic basketball program. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.079 And one day David Stern called the Godfather. We tease 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.680 this in the last episode, but here it is again. 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.600 He said, Jerry, look, I know you were just as 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:57.960 unhappy as me and everyone else regarding the showing in 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.160 Greece and all the things it and there needs to 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:03.720 be some change. Would you be willing to take on 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.600 the responsibility for USA Basketball? And I'm instinctive and I 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.760 basically said, yeah, I'll do it, but I have a 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.480 couple of conditions, and he said what are they. I said, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:20.000 one full autonomy. I'll pick the coaches and the players 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.439 in this whole system, which was a little too political 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:29.679 for me, uh in terms of the selection process who 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.520 went by the wayside. He said, you got it. What's 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.640 number two? And I said, I don't want to hear 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:39.040 about a budget and he went off in typical Stern fashion, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.600 and I let him go and I said, David, are 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.360 you finished? He said yes. I said it's still number two, 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:48.680 and he acquiesced, and then I assured him, don't worry 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.600 about it. I'll raise the money now. During that prior 0:10:52.760 --> 0:10:56.960 quad they raised nine million dollars to cover expenses for 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:02.400 USA Basketball. During my first quad, we raised thirty six 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:07.000 million and there was no looking back. So that's how 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.800 it all started. And that was all in the early 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.800 days of All five. That's true. Money was never much 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.840 of an object for Jerry, either spending it or raising it. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:21.319 And I think you came across that particular aspect of 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:24.000 Jerry Colangelo. J And one time I was out in 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.800 Phoenix and there was an event of fundraising event for 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.320 the Basketball Hall of Fame, which, as you mentioned, Jerry 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.640 Clangelo's chairman of the board. I don't know what his 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:33.880 title is, it always sounds appropriate to call him the 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.040 chairman of the board. And so he got in there 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:39.880 and he just hounded people. He got up there when 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.040 it was time to really bring in the bucks at 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.120 the end of this this banquet. He just ground people 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.319 down and forced them. And I've heard stories that he's 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.640 done fundraising events where he'll literally locked the doors to 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:55.400 the room and say, you guys are leaving here until 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.680 we hit our target figure of fundraising. So he is 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.400 a phenomenal fundraiser. You just don't want to go against him, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.319 right if he asked you for something, you don't want 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:05.800 to say no. He's pretty impossible to refuse. Yeah, he's 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.240 a hard guy to refuse. I mean he he now 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:10.839 heads the Hall of Fame. He really turned around, by 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.480 the way, their their finances, and pretty much a month 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.800 doesn't go by that I don't get a fundraising letter 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.080 from the from the Hall of Fame. The other thing 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.199 about Jerry, by the way, and one of the reasons 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.719 I always enjoyed talking to him and and being in 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:28.440 his circle, was he sort of like the old time 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.400 boxing promoters. He doesn't care what you say about him, 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:36.400 just say something. He doesn't take things personal. He doesn't 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:40.880 held grudges. He's had some negative publicity along the way, 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.120 but he's always rolled with it and never held that 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.000 against anyone. Later now, you asked him during our long 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:50.920 interview with him, why was it important for him to 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:54.720 answer this call to USA Basketball. Well, I was, I 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:58.440 guess at the moment, I felt that I was in 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:01.600 a position to do something like that, and it was 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:05.240 great timing in my opinion. You know, you sell the 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:09.400 Sun's you step down in baseball, So I was available, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.760 let's put it that way, even with my full plate 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.160 of other things. I liked it. I liked the challenge, 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.160 you know, in terms of taking on that responsibility, and 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.720 it was you know, I'm pretty open about this. I'm 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.640 proud to be an American. I was unhappy about the 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.439 way people were looking at us as Americans, as athletes, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:36.319 and in particular our basketball people in Greece, and it 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:40.520 was a little shameful in my opinion. And so the 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.160 opportunity to represent your country, which is a lot different 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.040 than the City States, and not just something domestic, but 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:54.080 this was representing your country on the world stage and 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.400 having a chance to to make a statement. You're listening 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.440 to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team be back in 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:07.920 a minute. So the first order of business for any 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.160 new executive is to quote change the culture unquote. Now 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.200 that's a vague term, but a lot of times in sports, 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.760 I think j what that means is to get a 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.360 new coach, get a coach that's going to set the 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.360 right tenor set the team on a new course. Back 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.560 in the early nineties, they picked Chuck Daily to be 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:33.000 coach of the Dream Team in early because they thought 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:36.600 he was the best guy to establish the correct culture. 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:39.240 And I think that, uh, that was the right decision. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.240 So to make this decision for the two thousand and 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.920 eight team what later became known as the Redeemed Team, 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.440 Jerry Colangelo wanted feedback. And the great thing about being 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.680 a godfather j A is when you hold us sit down, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:59.120 everybody comes exactly. And so Jerry Colangelo basically convene a 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.600 meeting of the five families if you're a guyfather fan, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.160 and got all these big names in the basketball world, 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.320 all people who had been involved with the Olympics before, 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.520 to get together for a brainstorming session in Chicago. And 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.080 that's what's so impressive is that he didn't call them 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:17.400 together for any particular moment or movement. You know, let's 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.400 let's just kick around some ideas. And only Jerry Calangrigo 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.480 could get that type of star power one room just 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:27.240 for an idea session. Immediately I knew culture change, we 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:30.880 have to get gained back the respect. And my first 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.760 order of business was who's going to be the coach 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.520 that I would select. I called a meeting in Chicago 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:43.440 of former Olympic coaches and former Olympic players and it 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.080 was held at the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame, 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:51.960 and it was a new building, great setting, and if 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:55.120 you were a basketball fly, you wanted to be in 0:15:55.160 --> 0:16:00.480 that room. Knowing who was in that room A great names, 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:06.000 great basketball people all there because I had requested them 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:09.120 to be there, because they cared. And so he got 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.560 all these people to come there. And by these people, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:16.600 I'm talking the likes of Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird, Jerry West, 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:21.480 John Thompson, Scottie Pippen, all these legendary figures of the 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.320 game showed up just because he asked them to. It 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.320 was out of respect they were showing me and I. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.040 Basically they knew I was going to make the final decisions, 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.480 but the fact that I was reaching out and wanted 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:39.320 their inputum meant something to them. Also, I had each 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.560 one of them speak. I wanted to know, share your 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:47.080 experience as an Olympian, tell us what your read on 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.760 how things are, and number three, what do you think 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:53.360 needs to happen? And they all had great stories, and 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:57.240 you know, we just sat around and listened and it 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.800 was it was terrific. And then I said, well, I'm 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.520 gonna put some names up on the board. Let's let's 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:09.440 talk about coaches, pro coaches, college coaches, and the college 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.000 coach of course, as you know, that turned out to 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.480 be number one by a land slide. At the time 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.280 was coach K. But Dean Smith, who was a former 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:23.720 Olympic coach, was there and he said, there's only one 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.800 one college guy up there on that board who could 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.800 get the job done, and that's because he has the 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.840 respect of all the players and he's current. He's the 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:38.120 He's the one. And that was coach K. Now, think 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:43.439 about that. His his biggest rival in his career was 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.119 Dean Smith, and Dean Smith was pushing him, which I 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:52.000 thought was kind of a seminal moment for me at least. 0:17:52.640 --> 0:17:54.920 And then we got to the players and we broke 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:58.720 down the players by position, and we start talking about 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.240 a whole list of players, some ranking players. But here's 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.040 an interesting thing on the on the pro coaches, uh, 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.480 number one was Popovich. Number two was someone not even 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.280 coaching anymore. It was Pat Riley. He had stepped down 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.840 from coaching. But Pat got the second most support. So 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:23.280 literally I had to two candidates, Popovich in coach K 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:25.560 so J. At this point, if you're a betting man, 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:28.399 you're thinking, well, we don't know what happened in a meeting, 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:33.680 but you probably looks like Greg Popovitch, who has already 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:36.960 won NBA championships. It looks like he's going to be 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:39.040 the guy. You would think so. But I mean, if 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.840 Dean Is is vouching for coach k and it's a 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.200 pretty strong endorsement from his rival from from up Tobacco Road. 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.760 And keep in mind Phil Jackson, you would think would 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.879 be another candidate. But as he told us, he was 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:53.119 basically out of the mix. He's been asking in nineteen 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:56.000 nineties and he said no. Back then, I was asked 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.119 and declined. I felt that, you know, I was in 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:05.520 the middle of coaching until July. Usually season would end 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.760 in June. We go into the draft in late June, 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:11.560 and I had in my contract that I had two 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:15.280 months off July and August and i'd be back in 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:18.840 Labor Day. And I had a family of five, and 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.479 I wanted to get back in with my family and 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:27.400 enjoy my summers and be compressed from basketball. So when 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.240 they asked if I was interested, I said no, USA, 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.800 I said no, I'm not, thank you. So Phil, in 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:36.719 USA basketball that's a no go, and that have been 0:19:36.760 --> 0:19:40.360 long established, and you know, Gregg Popovitch, you would think 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.960 would be a strong candidate. He'd already won a couple 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.679 of NBA championships at that point. It's shown that he 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.879 could work with big players, but maybe he was a 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:52.600 little bit specific to the type of players that he 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:54.879 had on that team in San Antonio. That might have 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:59.480 been one concern. And then the other concern was he 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.920 and j he just didn't really hit it off. Pop 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:06.679 and I had had our disagreements, you know, just competitive 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:12.120 disagreements between San Antonio and Phoenix over the years. Mike 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.720 I knew fairly well. I mean I saw Mike play 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.919 when he was at Army a hundred years ago, and 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.760 I spent time with him when he was an assistant 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.760 at Indiana under Bobby Knight briefly, So there was a 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:28.639 relationship there, and from time to time I would speak 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.960 with him about players before the draft each year, et cetera, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.959 and so I had a good relationship. Um I called Pop, 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:42.639 and honestly, I this turned out to be yet another 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.280 problem for the two of us at the moment. At 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.800 that time, I didn't sense any real enthusiasm over the 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:53.760 phone from Pop. He was really basically being himself because 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:58.639 he doesn't show a lot of emotion or enthusiasm. So 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.480 in some ways was a little bit of a misread 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:04.480 on my part. But I walked away from that phone 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.160 call a little taken back that he didn't show more 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.760 enthusiasm for the opportunity. The reason that became an issue 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:17.240 is that later on, when I was asked why coach 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:23.280 Chowski and not Popovich, I said that to the media 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.439 in some way, shape or form, I said I didn't 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:30.000 feel it. I didn't sense it. Well, that upset Pop 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:35.320 quite a bit. He sent me a letter expressing his uh, 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:39.360 you know, unhappiness, etcetera. And I apologize to him at 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:41.960 the time. And there's an even deeper angle to the 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.200 whole pop story. Remember that Pop had been the main 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:48.560 assistant on that Larry Brown team that had been embarrassed 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.680 in the two thousand four Olympics. Here's a guy we've 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:55.400 counted on before, Sean Ford, who was now USA Basketball's 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.800 national team director, totally plugged in. He talks about that Popovitch. 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.000 This is an instance where I wish I was better 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.080 at my job and saw things better and different because 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.680 I think you know that the meeting that Jerry's talking 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:15.800 about took place in May of two thousand five and 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:19.040 here you have Jerry who's just really really excited and 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:21.840 he should be you know, of where he is and 0:22:21.840 --> 0:22:25.440 what's in front of him. And in that meeting there 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.000 was there was conversations of who the coaches should be, 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:31.480 and you know, it seemed like the clear favorites were 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:34.960 you know, coach K and and and Pop, you know, 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.120 and it wasn't a lot of conversation between the two. 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.840 It was just like that was a direction. And you know, 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:43.760 an interesting thing in the meeting is that you know, 0:22:43.760 --> 0:22:46.360 a lot of different people spoke, you know, but one 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:48.600 of the things that happened was that you know, Michael 0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.160 Jordan's supported Coach K as the coach, and Dean Smith 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:54.440 was in the room, you know, and I think Dean 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:57.280 supported it as well. And so it's not like that 0:22:57.400 --> 0:23:00.399 carried the day, but that's a moment that you know, 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:02.840 you you think about if you're in the room, that 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.000 that's something you you remember. But the other thing is 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:09.880 that here's Pop who had the experience of O two, 0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.680 the low vote two, the high of oh three when 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.240 we were really good, and then the low VO four 0:23:16.000 --> 0:23:20.040 and it's still you know, in his system, and so 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:23.520 when when he talks to Jerry, he's I think still 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.840 thinking about how we can you know, we gotta do 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.200 things differently. And I think it was it was still close. 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.280 It was still an open wound for Pop, you know, 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:34.760 and I think that, but he was he was still 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.199 very interested. You would have loved to do it. And 0:23:37.280 --> 0:23:39.680 so I've heard Jerry talked about that a little bit 0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:42.520 and and I wish I, you know, maybe you know, 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.000 could have said, you know, hey, look I you gotta 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:47.919 understand where Pop is right now. This is still an 0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:51.520 open wound for him. So Jerry had his coach, Mike Showski, 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.800 who also happened to be Michael Jordan's choice and Dean 0:23:55.040 --> 0:23:59.200 smith choice. But Jay, you still got to get the players. 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:02.440