Speaker 1: The Dream Team Tapes season two. Kobe Lebron and the
Speaker 1: Redeem Team is a production of Diversion Podcasts in association
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio Diversion Podcasts. The players selected for
Speaker 1: the honor of representing the United States in the two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight Beijing Olympic Games are Kobe Bryant. We
Speaker 1: look forward to this for a while, you know it
Speaker 1: to be in this position now here represent our country minutes,
Speaker 1: especially special Lebron James. We look for an opportunity of
Speaker 1: the weekend on Alma being the best in the world.
Speaker 1: I guess the Redeem Team is it is right, We're
Speaker 1: the rest team in the world. We're the best team
Speaker 1: in the world. We put Basketball America basketball Wheal defeat,
Speaker 1: which is at the time can you hear that Godfather
Speaker 1: like music in the background? I'm Jack McCallum, and we're
Speaker 1: here in episode four of Kobe Lebron and the Redeemed
Speaker 1: Team to talk about a Godfather figure who did a
Speaker 1: humpty dumpty repair act on an American basketball program that
Speaker 1: had fallen on hard times. Now, there are many reasons
Speaker 1: why the Redeemed Team became the Redeemed Team, but one
Speaker 1: of the big ones is Jerry Colangelo the Godfather, and
Speaker 1: that's the title of episode four. My co host is
Speaker 1: Jay Adonde, who did the great podcast Beyond the Last Dance? Jay,
Speaker 1: what has been your connection with the Godfather? Over the
Speaker 1: anybody that covered the league pretty much came into contact
Speaker 1: with Jerry Colangelo exactly. He was impossible to avoid if
Speaker 1: you're around basketball basketball in general, in particularly the NBA.
Speaker 1: But I'd say the first time I really got a
Speaker 1: taste of his power, and that was in two thousand
Speaker 1: at the National Association of Black Journalists convention in Phoenix
Speaker 1: that year and we had given one of our Pioneer Awards.
Speaker 1: The Sports Task Force gives Pioneer awards for people of
Speaker 1: groundbreaking in that region, and so Jerry got one. Connie Hawkins,
Speaker 1: the Great Phoenix sun Star was was another recipient that year,
Speaker 1: and we had bought tickets to an Arizona Diamondbacks game.
Speaker 1: Of course, Colangelo was the man in charge of the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 1: So we bought a block of tickets and we let
Speaker 1: Jerry know about it, and he said, how many tickets
Speaker 1: you get? We're like twenty in our block. He said,
Speaker 1: I see way more than twenty people here. Do you.
Speaker 1: You guys need some more tickets? Like okay, Henny whips
Speaker 1: out his cell phone. He's on the phone. He says,
Speaker 1: what about a sweet you guys want to sweep? Okay? Sure?
Speaker 1: What do you want in there? Want some beers? Want
Speaker 1: some chickens, some nachos? What do you want? Put in
Speaker 1: our order? And boom, like in thirty seconds, done and
Speaker 1: we go there. We had a suite. We get in there,
Speaker 1: there's a big tub of beers. Diamondbacks were playing the
Speaker 1: cub Sammy Sosa hit a couple of home runs. It
Speaker 1: might have been the best time I've ever had at
Speaker 1: a baseball game. And Jerry Colangelo made it happen in
Speaker 1: about thirty seconds, just from start to finish. He hooked
Speaker 1: it up like that. So that's the power of Jerry Colangelo.
Speaker 1: I got a quick lesson in that. Yep, that's what
Speaker 1: you do when you're the godfather. But you know, before
Speaker 1: we hear what he's done. Here's a very quick bio.
Speaker 1: Jerry has owned, general, managed, and coached the Phoenix Suns.
Speaker 1: He has owned the Arizona Diamondbacks of Major League Baseball,
Speaker 1: the Phoenix Mercury of the w n b A, the
Speaker 1: Arizona sand Sharks of the Continental Indoor Soccer League, the
Speaker 1: Arizona Rattlers of the Arena Football League, and he was
Speaker 1: instrumental in relocating the Winnipeg Jets to become the Phoenix Coyotes.
Speaker 1: He built a program at Grand Canyon University, he was
Speaker 1: chairman of the basketball operation for the seventies sixers, and
Speaker 1: he's been president of the NBA Board of Governors. And
Speaker 1: that's not even the most interesting part of his bio.
Speaker 1: J A. I'm not gonna say how old he is,
Speaker 1: that's up to him. But let's just say he was
Speaker 1: around long enough that he was going to be a
Speaker 1: teammate of Wilt Chamberlain at the University of Kansas. This
Speaker 1: was after wild had been there and Will decided to
Speaker 1: leave for the Harlem Globetrotters, and Jerry took one look
Speaker 1: around and decided, without Wilt Chamberlain, I don't want to
Speaker 1: be there either. He transferred to the University of Illinois,
Speaker 1: where he became a very good big ten basketball player.
Speaker 1: So for a little background on why Jerry was so important,
Speaker 1: we have to go back to those years around two
Speaker 1: thousand three, two thousand four, JA, what was going on
Speaker 1: why was he so needed to come along and save
Speaker 1: the USA basketball program. Well, USA basketball falling on hard times,
Speaker 1: and it took about a decade since the advent of
Speaker 1: NBA players into USA Basketball, and they were riding high
Speaker 1: through three Olympics, but then it had fallen in and
Speaker 1: starting with the two thousand two World Championships in America
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis, the US losers there, and then of course
Speaker 1: the fiasco of the third place finish in Athens at
Speaker 1: the Olympics there in two thousand four. So just throwing
Speaker 1: out NBA players wasn't enough. We needed a stronger regiment
Speaker 1: and USA basketball needed more buy in from the top players.
Speaker 1: It was clear that in order to win the gold
Speaker 1: medal again they needed the best of American basketball players
Speaker 1: to participate, not just American basketball players. That wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: cut it anymore. They needed someone to get everyone in line,
Speaker 1: to get buy in, to bring structure an organization, and
Speaker 1: that's where Jerry Colangelo came in. Now, there's a theory
Speaker 1: from the nineteenth century called the Great Man theory. Thomas
Speaker 1: Carlyle thought of it, and he's Scottish, and I'm Scottish,
Speaker 1: and that's probably why I remember it. Carlisle theorized that
Speaker 1: history could be explained by the impact of great men,
Speaker 1: that they come along at times of most need, that
Speaker 1: they had divine inspiration, they had couraged, they had intellect,
Speaker 1: and they had leadership to make it really happen. Where
Speaker 1: the hell they are during the pandemic, By the way,
Speaker 1: I have no idea, But anyway, in terms of the
Speaker 1: great man theory, if you look at the Redeemed team,
Speaker 1: I suppose we could say it would be Mike Shaski,
Speaker 1: who were going to be talking about in the next episode,
Speaker 1: or Kobe Bryant or Lebron James, who we've already discussed.
Speaker 1: But the first one to come along to change the
Speaker 1: course of USA basketball's history was Jerry Colangelo. And when
Speaker 1: the invitation came along to lead USA basketball and reorganized
Speaker 1: the program, it was a very inopportune time for Mr. Colangelo.
Speaker 1: First of all, All four was a very traumatic year
Speaker 1: for me outside of watching the USA basketball team UH
Speaker 1: not do very well in Greece. But I had made
Speaker 1: a decision to h to sell the Suns that took
Speaker 1: place in the middle of oh four. Not long after that,
Speaker 1: I stepped down with the Diamondbacks, a few months later,
Speaker 1: I was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame. I
Speaker 1: took my wife to Europe got involved in the street
Speaker 1: fight on the streets of Paris when she was attacked
Speaker 1: by two muggers, and that was an interesting evening because
Speaker 1: we had plans in Paris, and as it turned up,
Speaker 1: my eyes were not in good shape when I was
Speaker 1: pepper spray during this fight, and we had to spend
Speaker 1: the night in the hotel. I did order a bottle
Speaker 1: of champagne and pour two glasses, and I said to
Speaker 1: my wife, we were both sixty five at the time.
Speaker 1: I said, you know, for two sixty five year olds,
Speaker 1: we handled ourselves pretty well. And I'm referring to the
Speaker 1: fight that took place in front of a five star
Speaker 1: hotel in Paris. And so I had a speaking engagement
Speaker 1: in Chicago on the way back, and I made the comment,
Speaker 1: I said, you know, it's been a very traumatic year.
Speaker 1: There's still a little bit of time left in this year.
Speaker 1: What's next? And soon thereafter I was advised I had
Speaker 1: prostate cancer and had to make some major decisions in
Speaker 1: terms of my health. Now. I was around Jerry in
Speaker 1: those years a lot because I was researching a book
Speaker 1: on the Phoenix Suns, which became seven seconds or less.
Speaker 1: And I was impressed by the way the way Jerry
Speaker 1: he had just sold the team, as he mentioned in
Speaker 1: his earlier quote to Robert Sarver, who did things, let's
Speaker 1: just say a little differently now. He did leave his
Speaker 1: son in place, Brian Colangelo was GM of the Sons.
Speaker 1: He later left also, But for a guy that was
Speaker 1: really at the center of things, Jerry left that team
Speaker 1: alone after he had sold it to Robert Sarver. Otherwise, though,
Speaker 1: he was always in the middle of the action, rules committees, controversies,
Speaker 1: TV negotiations, and I said earlier, he was chairman of
Speaker 1: the Board of Governors of the NBA. And I was
Speaker 1: surprised when we asked him why he had never been
Speaker 1: invited before two thousand five to get involved with the
Speaker 1: Olympic program. Here's what he said, I don't know, I'm
Speaker 1: not sure. I'm not sure there was ever an invitation
Speaker 1: to be involved with USA basketball. Well, there was a
Speaker 1: need to have him now, and David Stern, then the commissioner,
Speaker 1: usually left most of the work with USA Basketball to
Speaker 1: his trusted lieutenant Russ Grantick, who is by the way
Speaker 1: one of the truly underrated figures in our Olympic basketball program.
Speaker 1: And one day David Stern called the Godfather. We tease
Speaker 1: this in the last episode, but here it is again.
Speaker 1: He said, Jerry, look, I know you were just as
Speaker 1: unhappy as me and everyone else regarding the showing in
Speaker 1: Greece and all the things it and there needs to
Speaker 1: be some change. Would you be willing to take on
Speaker 1: the responsibility for USA Basketball? And I'm instinctive and I
Speaker 1: basically said, yeah, I'll do it, but I have a
Speaker 1: couple of conditions, and he said what are they. I said,
Speaker 1: one full autonomy. I'll pick the coaches and the players
Speaker 1: in this whole system, which was a little too political
Speaker 1: for me, uh in terms of the selection process who
Speaker 1: went by the wayside. He said, you got it. What's
Speaker 1: number two? And I said, I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: about a budget and he went off in typical Stern fashion,
Speaker 1: and I let him go and I said, David, are
Speaker 1: you finished? He said yes. I said it's still number two,
Speaker 1: and he acquiesced, and then I assured him, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it. I'll raise the money now. During that prior
Speaker 1: quad they raised nine million dollars to cover expenses for
Speaker 1: USA Basketball. During my first quad, we raised thirty six
Speaker 1: million and there was no looking back. So that's how
Speaker 1: it all started. And that was all in the early
Speaker 1: days of All five. That's true. Money was never much
Speaker 1: of an object for Jerry, either spending it or raising it.
Speaker 1: And I think you came across that particular aspect of
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo. J And one time I was out in
Speaker 1: Phoenix and there was an event of fundraising event for
Speaker 1: the Basketball Hall of Fame, which, as you mentioned, Jerry
Speaker 1: Clangelo's chairman of the board. I don't know what his
Speaker 1: title is, it always sounds appropriate to call him the
Speaker 1: chairman of the board. And so he got in there
Speaker 1: and he just hounded people. He got up there when
Speaker 1: it was time to really bring in the bucks at
Speaker 1: the end of this this banquet. He just ground people
Speaker 1: down and forced them. And I've heard stories that he's
Speaker 1: done fundraising events where he'll literally locked the doors to
Speaker 1: the room and say, you guys are leaving here until
Speaker 1: we hit our target figure of fundraising. So he is
Speaker 1: a phenomenal fundraiser. You just don't want to go against him,
Speaker 1: right if he asked you for something, you don't want
Speaker 1: to say no. He's pretty impossible to refuse. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: a hard guy to refuse. I mean he he now
Speaker 1: heads the Hall of Fame. He really turned around, by
Speaker 1: the way, their their finances, and pretty much a month
Speaker 1: doesn't go by that I don't get a fundraising letter
Speaker 1: from the from the Hall of Fame. The other thing
Speaker 1: about Jerry, by the way, and one of the reasons
Speaker 1: I always enjoyed talking to him and and being in
Speaker 1: his circle, was he sort of like the old time
Speaker 1: boxing promoters. He doesn't care what you say about him,
Speaker 1: just say something. He doesn't take things personal. He doesn't
Speaker 1: held grudges. He's had some negative publicity along the way,
Speaker 1: but he's always rolled with it and never held that
Speaker 1: against anyone. Later now, you asked him during our long
Speaker 1: interview with him, why was it important for him to
Speaker 1: answer this call to USA Basketball. Well, I was, I
Speaker 1: guess at the moment, I felt that I was in
Speaker 1: a position to do something like that, and it was
Speaker 1: great timing in my opinion. You know, you sell the
Speaker 1: Sun's you step down in baseball, So I was available,
Speaker 1: let's put it that way, even with my full plate
Speaker 1: of other things. I liked it. I liked the challenge,
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of taking on that responsibility, and
Speaker 1: it was you know, I'm pretty open about this. I'm
Speaker 1: proud to be an American. I was unhappy about the
Speaker 1: way people were looking at us as Americans, as athletes,
Speaker 1: and in particular our basketball people in Greece, and it
Speaker 1: was a little shameful in my opinion. And so the
Speaker 1: opportunity to represent your country, which is a lot different
Speaker 1: than the City States, and not just something domestic, but
Speaker 1: this was representing your country on the world stage and
Speaker 1: having a chance to to make a statement. You're listening
Speaker 1: to Kobe Lebron and the redeem Team be back in
Speaker 1: a minute. So the first order of business for any
Speaker 1: new executive is to quote change the culture unquote. Now
Speaker 1: that's a vague term, but a lot of times in sports,
Speaker 1: I think j what that means is to get a
Speaker 1: new coach, get a coach that's going to set the
Speaker 1: right tenor set the team on a new course. Back
Speaker 1: in the early nineties, they picked Chuck Daily to be
Speaker 1: coach of the Dream Team in early because they thought
Speaker 1: he was the best guy to establish the correct culture.
Speaker 1: And I think that, uh, that was the right decision.
Speaker 1: So to make this decision for the two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight team what later became known as the Redeemed Team,
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo wanted feedback. And the great thing about being
Speaker 1: a godfather j A is when you hold us sit down,
Speaker 1: everybody comes exactly. And so Jerry Colangelo basically convene a
Speaker 1: meeting of the five families if you're a guyfather fan,
Speaker 1: and got all these big names in the basketball world,
Speaker 1: all people who had been involved with the Olympics before,
Speaker 1: to get together for a brainstorming session in Chicago. And
Speaker 1: that's what's so impressive is that he didn't call them
Speaker 1: together for any particular moment or movement. You know, let's
Speaker 1: let's just kick around some ideas. And only Jerry Calangrigo
Speaker 1: could get that type of star power one room just
Speaker 1: for an idea session. Immediately I knew culture change, we
Speaker 1: have to get gained back the respect. And my first
Speaker 1: order of business was who's going to be the coach
Speaker 1: that I would select. I called a meeting in Chicago
Speaker 1: of former Olympic coaches and former Olympic players and it
Speaker 1: was held at the Italian American Sports Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: and it was a new building, great setting, and if
Speaker 1: you were a basketball fly, you wanted to be in
Speaker 1: that room. Knowing who was in that room A great names,
Speaker 1: great basketball people all there because I had requested them
Speaker 1: to be there, because they cared. And so he got
Speaker 1: all these people to come there. And by these people,
Speaker 1: I'm talking the likes of Michael Jordan's, Larry Bird, Jerry West,
Speaker 1: John Thompson, Scottie Pippen, all these legendary figures of the
Speaker 1: game showed up just because he asked them to. It
Speaker 1: was out of respect they were showing me and I.
Speaker 1: Basically they knew I was going to make the final decisions,
Speaker 1: but the fact that I was reaching out and wanted
Speaker 1: their inputum meant something to them. Also, I had each
Speaker 1: one of them speak. I wanted to know, share your
Speaker 1: experience as an Olympian, tell us what your read on
Speaker 1: how things are, and number three, what do you think
Speaker 1: needs to happen? And they all had great stories, and
Speaker 1: you know, we just sat around and listened and it
Speaker 1: was it was terrific. And then I said, well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna put some names up on the board. Let's let's
Speaker 1: talk about coaches, pro coaches, college coaches, and the college
Speaker 1: coach of course, as you know, that turned out to
Speaker 1: be number one by a land slide. At the time
Speaker 1: was coach K. But Dean Smith, who was a former
Speaker 1: Olympic coach, was there and he said, there's only one
Speaker 1: one college guy up there on that board who could
Speaker 1: get the job done, and that's because he has the
Speaker 1: respect of all the players and he's current. He's the
Speaker 1: He's the one. And that was coach K. Now, think
Speaker 1: about that. His his biggest rival in his career was
Speaker 1: Dean Smith, and Dean Smith was pushing him, which I
Speaker 1: thought was kind of a seminal moment for me at least.
Speaker 1: And then we got to the players and we broke
Speaker 1: down the players by position, and we start talking about
Speaker 1: a whole list of players, some ranking players. But here's
Speaker 1: an interesting thing on the on the pro coaches, uh,
Speaker 1: number one was Popovich. Number two was someone not even
Speaker 1: coaching anymore. It was Pat Riley. He had stepped down
Speaker 1: from coaching. But Pat got the second most support. So
Speaker 1: literally I had to two candidates, Popovich in coach K
Speaker 1: so J. At this point, if you're a betting man,
Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, we don't know what happened in a meeting,
Speaker 1: but you probably looks like Greg Popovitch, who has already
Speaker 1: won NBA championships. It looks like he's going to be
Speaker 1: the guy. You would think so. But I mean, if
Speaker 1: Dean Is is vouching for coach k and it's a
Speaker 1: pretty strong endorsement from his rival from from up Tobacco Road.
Speaker 1: And keep in mind Phil Jackson, you would think would
Speaker 1: be another candidate. But as he told us, he was
Speaker 1: basically out of the mix. He's been asking in nineteen
Speaker 1: nineties and he said no. Back then, I was asked
Speaker 1: and declined. I felt that, you know, I was in
Speaker 1: the middle of coaching until July. Usually season would end
Speaker 1: in June. We go into the draft in late June,
Speaker 1: and I had in my contract that I had two
Speaker 1: months off July and August and i'd be back in
Speaker 1: Labor Day. And I had a family of five, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to get back in with my family and
Speaker 1: enjoy my summers and be compressed from basketball. So when
Speaker 1: they asked if I was interested, I said no, USA,
Speaker 1: I said no, I'm not, thank you. So Phil, in
Speaker 1: USA basketball that's a no go, and that have been
Speaker 1: long established, and you know, Gregg Popovitch, you would think
Speaker 1: would be a strong candidate. He'd already won a couple
Speaker 1: of NBA championships at that point. It's shown that he
Speaker 1: could work with big players, but maybe he was a
Speaker 1: little bit specific to the type of players that he
Speaker 1: had on that team in San Antonio. That might have
Speaker 1: been one concern. And then the other concern was he
Speaker 1: and j he just didn't really hit it off. Pop
Speaker 1: and I had had our disagreements, you know, just competitive
Speaker 1: disagreements between San Antonio and Phoenix over the years. Mike
Speaker 1: I knew fairly well. I mean I saw Mike play
Speaker 1: when he was at Army a hundred years ago, and
Speaker 1: I spent time with him when he was an assistant
Speaker 1: at Indiana under Bobby Knight briefly, So there was a
Speaker 1: relationship there, and from time to time I would speak
Speaker 1: with him about players before the draft each year, et cetera,
Speaker 1: and so I had a good relationship. Um I called Pop,
Speaker 1: and honestly, I this turned out to be yet another
Speaker 1: problem for the two of us at the moment. At
Speaker 1: that time, I didn't sense any real enthusiasm over the
Speaker 1: phone from Pop. He was really basically being himself because
Speaker 1: he doesn't show a lot of emotion or enthusiasm. So
Speaker 1: in some ways was a little bit of a misread
Speaker 1: on my part. But I walked away from that phone
Speaker 1: call a little taken back that he didn't show more
Speaker 1: enthusiasm for the opportunity. The reason that became an issue
Speaker 1: is that later on, when I was asked why coach
Speaker 1: Chowski and not Popovich, I said that to the media
Speaker 1: in some way, shape or form, I said I didn't
Speaker 1: feel it. I didn't sense it. Well, that upset Pop
Speaker 1: quite a bit. He sent me a letter expressing his uh,
Speaker 1: you know, unhappiness, etcetera. And I apologize to him at
Speaker 1: the time. And there's an even deeper angle to the
Speaker 1: whole pop story. Remember that Pop had been the main
Speaker 1: assistant on that Larry Brown team that had been embarrassed
Speaker 1: in the two thousand four Olympics. Here's a guy we've
Speaker 1: counted on before, Sean Ford, who was now USA Basketball's
Speaker 1: national team director, totally plugged in. He talks about that Popovitch.
Speaker 1: This is an instance where I wish I was better
Speaker 1: at my job and saw things better and different because
Speaker 1: I think you know that the meeting that Jerry's talking
Speaker 1: about took place in May of two thousand five and
Speaker 1: here you have Jerry who's just really really excited and
Speaker 1: he should be you know, of where he is and
Speaker 1: what's in front of him. And in that meeting there
Speaker 1: was there was conversations of who the coaches should be,
Speaker 1: and you know, it seemed like the clear favorites were
Speaker 1: you know, coach K and and and Pop, you know,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a lot of conversation between the two.
Speaker 1: It was just like that was a direction. And you know,
Speaker 1: an interesting thing in the meeting is that you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of different people spoke, you know, but one
Speaker 1: of the things that happened was that you know, Michael
Speaker 1: Jordan's supported Coach K as the coach, and Dean Smith
Speaker 1: was in the room, you know, and I think Dean
Speaker 1: supported it as well. And so it's not like that
Speaker 1: carried the day, but that's a moment that you know,
Speaker 1: you you think about if you're in the room, that
Speaker 1: that's something you you remember. But the other thing is
Speaker 1: that here's Pop who had the experience of O two,
Speaker 1: the low vote two, the high of oh three when
Speaker 1: we were really good, and then the low VO four
Speaker 1: and it's still you know, in his system, and so
Speaker 1: when when he talks to Jerry, he's I think still
Speaker 1: thinking about how we can you know, we gotta do
Speaker 1: things differently. And I think it was it was still close.
Speaker 1: It was still an open wound for Pop, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think that, but he was he was still
Speaker 1: very interested. You would have loved to do it. And
Speaker 1: so I've heard Jerry talked about that a little bit
Speaker 1: and and I wish I, you know, maybe you know,
Speaker 1: could have said, you know, hey, look I you gotta
Speaker 1: understand where Pop is right now. This is still an
Speaker 1: open wound for him. So Jerry had his coach, Mike Showski,
Speaker 1: who also happened to be Michael Jordan's choice and Dean
Speaker 1: smith choice. But Jay, you still got to get the players.
Speaker 1: And remember what Collegela was doing. Here was a big ask,
Speaker 1: a much bigger ask than former Olympians had received. Here's
Speaker 1: Craig Miller, who was USA Basketball's longtime director of public relations.
Speaker 1: It's famously known that he went and interview, had player's
Speaker 1: interview with him and talk about why they wanted to
Speaker 1: play and how much do they want to play? And
Speaker 1: you know, it's like anything else sins, the more you
Speaker 1: got to become invested in something, the more it means
Speaker 1: to you. And then the other part of it was,
Speaker 1: this wasn't when Jerry took over, It wasn't just a
Speaker 1: one year commendment. It ended up being almost a three
Speaker 1: year two thousand and six, two thousand seven, two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight. We had competitions every year, and we had
Speaker 1: the same core group of players. You know. I think
Speaker 1: one of the Godfather's greatest strength was that he stayed
Speaker 1: in touch with the game. You gotta stay connected. And
Speaker 1: here's Sean Ford again talking about that. What was interesting
Speaker 1: to me is that Jerry did a really good job
Speaker 1: through his career of staying in touch with people in
Speaker 1: college knowing you know, like Bobby and Knight was always
Speaker 1: really like they played together in you know, in the
Speaker 1: Big Ten in the late fifties, early sixties, and people
Speaker 1: knew him, remember, you know, like CM and Tom dear
Speaker 1: instead and people like that. They didn't they weren't friends
Speaker 1: with him, but they had met him, they had they
Speaker 1: knew about him, they had interacted with him in some
Speaker 1: capacity somewhere along the line. And when you think of
Speaker 1: NBA owners, you don't think of that, you know a lot,
Speaker 1: But with Jerry, he was engaged in a lot of
Speaker 1: different things, you know, j There's only been certain guys
Speaker 1: who have been able to do that over a period
Speaker 1: of years. A lot of the old timers, you know,
Speaker 1: the guys that didn't make as much money, people forgot
Speaker 1: about them. They're not in the headlines anymore. They get disillusioned,
Speaker 1: they drift away from the game. But Jerry Colangelo, like
Speaker 1: a few others, you know, state connected. There's only a
Speaker 1: couple other guys who have been able to do that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd say Jerry West is another great example. Nineteen sixties
Speaker 1: Olympics Laker great in the sixties and early seventies and
Speaker 1: became one of the best executives, if not the best
Speaker 1: basketball executives of all time, and even when that time
Speaker 1: had passed, has still stuck around and even to this day,
Speaker 1: his input is so valued that he's always on someone's
Speaker 1: list as a consultant. He'd recently had done it with
Speaker 1: the Golden State Warriors, currently with the Los Angeles Clippers.
Speaker 1: So if Jerry Colangelo is the godfather, Jerry West is
Speaker 1: the consigliari. Phil Jackson is kind of like that too. Jay.
Speaker 1: He stays, you know, up in the mountains a little
Speaker 1: more and descends from the heavens when he gets back
Speaker 1: in the game, but he seems to stay connected in
Speaker 1: his own way. Yeah, and he's also adding to his
Speaker 1: bank account as well. But I think you're seeing the
Speaker 1: formation of the culture though that that Jerry Colangelo talked about,
Speaker 1: and the sense that, Okay, if people like Jerry West
Speaker 1: and these greats of the past, Michael Jordan, even who
Speaker 1: isn't somebody that jumps back into things and and stays
Speaker 1: involved when when there isn't a paycheck involved, If these
Speaker 1: people could still be involved, I think it gave incentive
Speaker 1: to the players that Jerry Colangelo was going to seek
Speaker 1: to recruit, and Jerry Williams was one of those players.
Speaker 1: For me, it was kind of a no brainer. And
Speaker 1: I just wanted to hoop. So summers are born as
Speaker 1: it is, just working out and grinding by yourself in
Speaker 1: the gym, so you need to be able to play
Speaker 1: with with the best players in the world. You know.
Speaker 1: It was something that I look forward to. That's funny
Speaker 1: you and Collanjo had you still keep that University of
Speaker 1: Illinois thing. He went there like fifty years before that, man,
Speaker 1: But I didn't even know you'd realize that, you know, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I Jerry was kind of he was kind of frequently
Speaker 1: in and out of Illinois, you know, and you know,
Speaker 1: popped in and would would speak to us, and so,
Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty aware of who he was,
Speaker 1: you know, throughout the process. You're listening to Kobe Lebron
Speaker 1: and the redeem Team. We'll be back in a minute.
Speaker 1: So another guy who was well aware of who Jerry
Speaker 1: Colangelo was because he worked for him before, was Jason Kidd,
Speaker 1: another point guard, and he played for the Phoenix Suns,
Speaker 1: but that relationship didn't end so well. Jerry Colangelo basically
Speaker 1: wanted him out and traded him to the New Jersey
Speaker 1: at the time, nets that was at Jerry Colangelo's requests.
Speaker 1: So I think some of us were surprised that they
Speaker 1: could reunite for this team. And to hear Jason Kidd
Speaker 1: tell the story, he wasn't quite sure that this was
Speaker 1: really happening when Colangelo first reached out to him to
Speaker 1: see if he wanted to be a part of this
Speaker 1: Olympic team. And I think I was hurt um and
Speaker 1: oh four, so I couldn't participate and so and things
Speaker 1: didn't go well for us, and so I thought if
Speaker 1: I ever got the opportunity. I knew I was getting
Speaker 1: a little older and there was going to go to
Speaker 1: the guys that deserve to be there. But when Jerry
Speaker 1: gave me a call and asked what I participate, at
Speaker 1: first I thought he was joking, but he was serious.
Speaker 1: And at anytime Jerry calls to ask you to do
Speaker 1: something you don't, there's no no. So I was very
Speaker 1: honored for him to ask me to play. But didn't
Speaker 1: he trade you? He did trade me, uh, and I
Speaker 1: was I was better about that trade because I love Phoenix,
Speaker 1: I love playing for him, but also the business of basketball. Uh.
Speaker 1: As you know, you learned quickly as you get older,
Speaker 1: things happen and so but I knew Jerry and Coach
Speaker 1: k were trying to fix Team USA and put the
Speaker 1: best team together, maybe not the top twelve or thirteen players,
Speaker 1: but the best team. And uh, I was just very
Speaker 1: again honored that he asked me to participate in that.
Speaker 1: Are you kidding when you said you were surprised? Yeah,
Speaker 1: when you said you thought he was kidding, I thought
Speaker 1: he was joking. Um, I thought he was just trying to,
Speaker 1: you know, play a little joke before he was gonna
Speaker 1: ask me to do something else and so uh, but
Speaker 1: when he asked me to be part of Team USA,
Speaker 1: I really thought he was joking because I looked at
Speaker 1: the team and the team that everybody was talking about.
Speaker 1: You know. Oh, I thought it was a rebranding of
Speaker 1: Team USA. I thought it was it was done with class. Now,
Speaker 1: one of the better selection stories comes from Carmelo Anthony.
Speaker 1: So here's a young player who had just been embarrassed
Speaker 1: in the two thousand four Olympics, lost out in Rookie
Speaker 1: of the Year to Lebron James, who he probably knows
Speaker 1: is going to overshadow him his whole career. Carmello also
Speaker 1: had a bad rep in some quarters. He wouldn't really
Speaker 1: seem to know Jerry Colangelo from Jerry Lewis, and what
Speaker 1: would he give a crap about Mike Sawski for he
Speaker 1: was only in college for one year. But here's Carmelo Anthony. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: by time Jerry came to us, came to me personally,
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, Like Jerry, I want to I
Speaker 1: want to be a part of this. I mean you're
Speaker 1: acting a lot, like three year commitments of this. That's
Speaker 1: a lot, right, And but at that point it was
Speaker 1: just like all right, Jerry, you know what, like I'm
Speaker 1: I'm me personally, I'm giving you this commitment, like I'm
Speaker 1: giving you myself for the next three years. And you know,
Speaker 1: once I committed to that and understood the goal and
Speaker 1: and and division for Team USA, you know, Team USA
Speaker 1: basketball and just the culture that was trying to be
Speaker 1: created that Jerry was creating. I brought into it. I
Speaker 1: brought into it, and then you know other guys, other
Speaker 1: guys that brought into it. So I think I was
Speaker 1: the last one that he came to meet with. So
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, I'm coming to you last,
Speaker 1: like I'm I need your commitment. If you're gonna be committed,
Speaker 1: we want you. If not, then you know, I need
Speaker 1: you to let it. Let us know that now. So
Speaker 1: you didn't have to call d Wade and Lebron to
Speaker 1: see if they were in or did you already know
Speaker 1: they were in when you committed now, I mean they
Speaker 1: was all yeah, they Jerry had went to them prior
Speaker 1: to like before me, so that I already was hearing
Speaker 1: that they was then. So I was just honest, I
Speaker 1: was just waiting on Jerry to you know, I'm like
Speaker 1: with damn with Jerry at like Jerry and coming to
Speaker 1: me like where is he at? So by time he
Speaker 1: came to me, it was like I was, I was
Speaker 1: already in I was already committed. It was Carmelo's eagerness
Speaker 1: to play that speaks to the alliances that were formed
Speaker 1: on this team and teaches us maybe a little lesson
Speaker 1: that we shouldn't rush to judgments about people, that we
Speaker 1: should wait and make our own judgments, which is what
Speaker 1: Jerry Colangelo did in the case of Carmelo. I'm really
Speaker 1: sensitive to this because you tend to do that when
Speaker 1: you get older, which I am, and you really have
Speaker 1: to be careful about it. And I really credit a
Speaker 1: person like Colangelo, who after all, was playing college basketball
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen fifties, being able to do that,
Speaker 1: particularly in the case of Carmelo. There was a bad
Speaker 1: taste in the mouth of many regarding Carmelo, and some
Speaker 1: people in basketball said I wouldn't waste my time with him.
Speaker 1: So in that first meeting with Carmelo, I told them that,
Speaker 1: I said, I want you to know there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people who have said, no, you know, lack
Speaker 1: of character, blah blah blah. He was stunned, shocked, and
Speaker 1: I said, and I'll tell you how I feel, how
Speaker 1: quite this slay clean for you? And I'm I'm gonna
Speaker 1: watch you during the course of this year and we'll talk. Well.
Speaker 1: During the course of the year, I heard from him
Speaker 1: three times where he called me to say, how do
Speaker 1: you think I'm doing? Is everything okay? And he was
Speaker 1: playing well. He was really working at it. And of
Speaker 1: course in picking him, think about all he's accomplished with
Speaker 1: USA Basketball, the records, the winds. He was a terrific
Speaker 1: international player. And one thing Collengelo had the benefit of
Speaker 1: this time was that he did have the full availability
Speaker 1: of Kobe Bryant. Remember, as we talked about in a
Speaker 1: previous episode, Kobe was unavailable in two thousand four because
Speaker 1: he was uncertain about how his sexual assault case was
Speaker 1: going to play out and it was scheduled for trial
Speaker 1: in the summer of two thousand four. Uh, they eventually
Speaker 1: resolved it without it going to trial, but he couldn't
Speaker 1: be certain of that in time to give USA Basketball
Speaker 1: enough notification that he could participate. He couldn't guarantee his
Speaker 1: ability to participate. So that was two thousand four and
Speaker 1: two thousand eight. That's all resolved. It's all clear. So
Speaker 1: he could get Kobe with no problem. But there was
Speaker 1: someone else here he wanted as well, and that was
Speaker 1: Lebron James. So I actually centered myself in Chicago because
Speaker 1: it's kind of a crossroads, and I saw players coming
Speaker 1: and going. As it turned out, met Lebron at the
Speaker 1: Rich Carleton across the street. And because I stay at
Speaker 1: the highatt and nine o'clock meeting in the lobby with Lebron.
Speaker 1: At exactly nine o'clock, the elevator door opened and outstepped
Speaker 1: Lebron right on time, and with him, I was about
Speaker 1: halfway through my my pitch, if you will. He said,
Speaker 1: I'm in, I'm in. And so what I since was
Speaker 1: the guys were buying in, you know, and that made
Speaker 1: me feel pretty good. Okay, Jerry's gathered up some of
Speaker 1: us guys, but the big question remains, will they buy
Speaker 1: into Coachowski a college coach? And that was a relevant
Speaker 1: question because we hadn't seen college coaches since we'd gone
Speaker 1: to this model of NBA players, and so you also
Speaker 1: have more and more players who didn't go to college
Speaker 1: at all. Right, so this roster was going to be
Speaker 1: made up of guys like Kobe and Lebron James and
Speaker 1: Dwight Howard who had never played for a college coach,
Speaker 1: so they didn't have that experience of a guy who's
Speaker 1: in command. And could a college coach adapt to this
Speaker 1: situation where he doesn't have as much control as he
Speaker 1: would in college. Maschewski is Duke basketball, right, but Mischewsky
Speaker 1: couldn't be USA basketball, not with these players, not with
Speaker 1: their accomplishments, not with their egos. So would he be
Speaker 1: able to adapt as well? So will examine all these
Speaker 1: questions and what approached coach k decided on in the
Speaker 1: next episode. Here's a taste. I know I probably have
Speaker 1: to follow him out, but they don't expect me to say,
Speaker 1: motherfucker right, and you know when you're talking, just come
Speaker 1: on your motherfucking like, we gotta get this gold medal.
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I wasn't this uh guy
Speaker 1: from Duke in West Point, you know how. It's more
Speaker 1: of the guy from the inner city of Chicago, you know.
Speaker 1: So that's it for this episode. I'm Jack McCallum, Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm JA that day. It's out next time
Speaker 1: on Kobe, Lebron and the Redeem feat. The Dream Team Tapes.
Speaker 1: Season two. Kobe lebron and the Redeem Team is a
Speaker 1: production of Diversion Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: For more podcast for my Heart Radio, visit the i
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts for wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: This season is written and hosted by me, Jack McCallum
Speaker 1: and j Adande. Executive producer Scott Waxman and Mark Frances
Speaker 1: for Diversion podcast and Sean's High Tone for I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Our editorial director is John Tuttle. Supervising producer Brian Murphy,
Speaker 1: Legal producer Freddie Overstegen, Editing, mixing and sound designed by
Speaker 1: Mark Frances. Verna Fields is our technical producer, and our
Speaker 1: director of Marketing and business Development is Jacob Bronstein. Diversion
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