1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome 5 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt Noel is 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: not here today, but will be returning in the future. 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with 8 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff 10 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. So we're traveling abroad today, Matt, 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: through the power of imagination podcast in the mind. Really 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: it's the only traveling outside of the United States that 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: I've gotten to do in a long time. Oh yeah, yeah, 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Now you have been to other countries. I have, but 15 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: not in a very very long time. So through the 16 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: magic of research and podcasting, we're going to take a 17 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: trip today. Yes, a very strange trip, as we are 18 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: wont to do on this show. Let's check in real 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 1: quick with Mission Control. How are we doing? Man thumbs up, 20 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: thumbs down, Pretty good thumb that was like, that was 21 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: a solid thumb. It's a solid thumb. We are taking 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: a trip together the three of us. That is a 23 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: weird thing. Maybe we'll reveal more about that in the future. 24 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: Right by the time this podcast comes out, we may 25 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: have completed our trip. I'm almost certain. Yeah, I'm almost 26 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,840 Speaker 1: certain we'll be arriving back here from New York. Wow, 27 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: time is getting weird. What is the presents the moment 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: for those of us listening to this for the first 29 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: time anyway, time space, it's it's a whole bag of 30 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: badgers and in a messy a messy colander of spaghetti. 31 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: But today we're not dealing with time and space. We 32 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: have been covering quite a few tech, science or social 33 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: related topics and conspiracies in recent episodes, so this time 34 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: we're planning to explore something a little different bit grizzly, 35 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: magic Mania, murder. And want to apologize in advance for 36 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: any mispronunciations because Matt, neither you nor I speak the 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: languages that will occur in today's show. Very very true, 38 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: the languages that are spoken as we travel to Malaysia. Now, 39 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: it is true that some of our fellow listeners actually 40 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: live in Malaysia or have spent time there. We found 41 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: that out when we did an earlier episode on the 42 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: uh the oily Man that we had several people right 43 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: in with specifics, specific anecdotes of similar events, also some 44 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: helpful handy pronunciation guides. So if you are listening, feel 45 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: free to to help us out. We always prefer a 46 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: bit of illumination to the darkness that surrounds us in 47 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: this chaotic universe. If you are familiar with Malaysian pop music, 48 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: if you have a deep, deep knowledge of it, then 49 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: you may notice the song that we played is Malaysian 50 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: in origin. If you were a very ardent, knowledgeable fan 51 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: of Malayan music, you might have said, hey, that's Mona 52 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: Fandi also known as or born as Nermasna binti Ismail 53 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: And she was born in Kendgar per List or per 54 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: Lee p r l i s. As a child, she 55 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: was she was engaged in regular extracurricular events, you know, 56 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: school dances. She was a water ballet performer, and she 57 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: became a mildly successful singer under the stage name Mona 58 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: Fandi with an album called Diana One. It was released 59 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 1: in ninete. And it should be noted that that was 60 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: a self produced album and it was also distributed by 61 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: herself and her husband. That's right, right, her husband who 62 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: during courtship actually met her because he said he was 63 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 1: her biggest fan, which is beautiful, and he said, I 64 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: want to help you attain the fame that you deserve. 65 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: They had some limited success. Mona Fandi was for a 66 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: long time best known for the song could Nan Kan 67 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: la Guini and that that's that's what we played a 68 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: snippet of earlier, and it feels very late eighties. It 69 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: feels very in the moment, right. She continued working towards 70 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: that dream of fame. She had a few TV appearances, 71 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: but her career wasn't taking off. And this is this 72 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: is something that happens to many many people, right Hollywood 73 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: and the music industry, entertainment in general is paved with 74 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: broken dreams. Yeah, she clearly had the drive and you know, 75 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: quite a bit of talent there as you as you 76 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: heard in that song. But there's so much luck that 77 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: comes into a lot of the performance based careers, just 78 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,679 Speaker 1: with who you end up meeting, who ends up hearing 79 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: your thing or seeing your thing, who talks about you 80 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 1: at what party? And no small amount of corruption. I 81 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,359 Speaker 1: just when I see this very cynical and sad, but 82 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: when I see people become big stars quote unquote out 83 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: of nowhere. I just assumed that they are the product 84 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: of music industry campaign and that's not a ding on 85 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:00,200 Speaker 1: their talent. That's just how this broken system functions. So 86 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: it's through no fault of her own, really, that Mona 87 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: Fandi does not become an international Malaysian superstar in the 88 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: world of pop music. It just didn't work out, and 89 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: she found a different calling. She and her husband switched careers. 90 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 1: They pivoted their focus. They began studying traditional medicinal practice, 91 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, healing through herbs, meditation, seasonal rituals, that sort 92 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: of stuff. And she seemed set to gently and quietly 93 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: fade from the public consciousness and live out the remainder 94 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: of her life quietly with her husband always should mention 95 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,840 Speaker 1: his name mode of Fondi Abdul Rahman. But all of 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: this changed when this relatively unknown, obscure former pop star 97 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,119 Speaker 1: was implicated in something much much more serious. See the 98 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: whole time she'd been claiming to, uh, you know, practice 99 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: traditional medicine with her husband, she was actually engaging in 100 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: more sinister and dangerous form of magic. That's correct, Matt, 101 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: Mona Fandy. She was a bomo a sorcerer, and she 102 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: had just committed murder. We'll be back after a word 103 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. For a time. 104 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: Fandy and her husband had a fairly successful traditional, let's 105 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: call it magical consulting business. Yeah. Absolutely, Well, you know, 106 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: this kind of profession, it really makes you have to 107 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: search for, you know, clients. I mean, in any profession, 108 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: you're looking for someone else to use your service or 109 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: buy your goods or anything like that. But in this case, 110 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: because it is a little more I don't know what 111 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: you call it, of a boutique kind of thing, or 112 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: that's not the right word. It could, Yeah, it could 113 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: be high end, especially if you're paying for services of 114 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 1: a bomo um a sorcerer to you know, give you 115 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: either fame or fortune or power or something like that. 116 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: That's generally the reason that people seek out these types 117 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: of sorcerers. And they were always looking for clients, you know, 118 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: who are in the upper echelons of things short v 119 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: I p s. And they found a few, at least 120 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: according to the two of them, they found several high 121 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: end clients within the government and a few other places. 122 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: Who wish to remain anonymous, that was a big thing 123 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: with their service to people weren't openly identified as as clients. 124 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: Because you know, magic has always been a divisive thing 125 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: in the modern day. Some people very much believe in 126 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: traditional shamanistic practices. Other people shoe it entirely and prefer 127 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 1: to live a more secular life. So, especially in the 128 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: world of politics, depending upon your constituents, see, it might 129 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:05,679 Speaker 1: be really cool that you, uh, you engage in these practices, 130 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,559 Speaker 1: or it may make you seem less credible to some voters. 131 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: But either way, if you're using them for a darker purpose, um, 132 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: you probably want to keep that hidden, right and Fandy 133 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: and co found a big fish in the form of 134 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: a state assemblyman from Batu Talam named Data Maslin. Idris 135 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: Maslin was educated in the US and he was thirsty. 136 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: He was an ambitious politician from the ruling party Unite 137 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: in Malay's National Organization or U m in Oh. He 138 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: wanted the BOMO to provide services that would boost his 139 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: political career. He wanted to be the chief Minister and thought, 140 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, if we keep this quiet through the use 141 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: of magic, we can you know, we can make my 142 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: career more auspicious. We can tilt the scales a bit, 143 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: the scales of luck and corrupt s that are so 144 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: common in the entertainment industry. Added the world of politics, 145 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: just a little finger, h finger on a scale, just 146 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: swing the needle a bit, just enough. So Mona Fandy 147 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: did not work alone. Her husband, of course, we have 148 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: mentioned a FONDI worked with her and they had an 149 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: assistant named Jerami Hassan. So there are three people involved, 150 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: and the assistant was a little bit younger than them. Yes, 151 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: very important. Some you'll hear some reports that he was 152 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: thirty one, You'll hear some reports that he was in 153 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: his late twenties. And you'll also hear reports that he 154 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: was maybe I don't know the correct term, but a 155 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: little learning disabled or something to that effect, right, that 156 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 1: he had lower intelligence. That's a very important point too 157 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: for this story. So Mona and her husband promised to 158 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: help this politician Maslan by giving him a talisman consisting 159 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: of a cane and spot me head gear. The head gear, 160 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: they said, was closely owned once upon a time by 161 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: former Indonesian President Sukarno, who is tremendously important in the 162 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: history of Indonesia. Is involved with the struggle for independence, 163 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: and he was the actual first president of Indonesia as 164 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: an independent country, so a very powerful person, kind of 165 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: a George Washington figure. Yeah, And and they're saying that 166 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: these talismans were owned by this powerful person, and if 167 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: we give them to you, it's also going to imbue 168 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: you with some powers exactly. So they convinced him. He said, 169 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: not only will you be a more powerful and favored politician, 170 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: you will be invincible when you physically hold this object, 171 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: invincible and you know, to get that kind of power, 172 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: if you truly believe it, um could be incredible. And 173 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: in return for this power, they demanded that Moslin pay 174 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: them to two point five million ring itt to ur 175 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: r M. That's just the the currency there in Malaysia 176 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: at the time, and that is equal to at least 177 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand one dollars, because that's the last time 178 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: we saw it actually switched over, it was around six 179 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,680 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty eight thousand dollars, So that might vary 180 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: a little bit because this is back in the early nineties, 181 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: but that's a good ballpark, right, So more than half 182 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: a million dollars US. He paid them five hundred thousand 183 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: ring as a deposit and then he wanted to give 184 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: them a guarantee so that they knew he wouldn't just vanish. Well, 185 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: they probably demanded it, so he gave them ten land 186 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: titles to hold on to and that would cover the 187 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: remaining two million. That's an incredible amount of money and 188 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: land to give to something that may or may not 189 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: be true. You have to believe that this politician believed 190 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: so deeply in this that he was willing to give 191 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 1: up all of that. And here's what happened next. They 192 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: made an appointment for these cleansing rituals to be performed 193 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: at the Fansy household. Maslin visited the couple's house in 194 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 1: uludung Rob for what was called a mandy Bunga ceremony, 195 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,559 Speaker 1: a ritual flower bath. Maslin was told to lie on 196 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: the ground face up. Mona placed flowers around him and 197 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: on him. Ritualistically, she told Maslan to close his eyes 198 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: and wait for the money to fall from the sky. 199 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: He did close his eyes, but flowers, uh, weren't the 200 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 1: only thing that fell down upon him. Let's yeah, let's 201 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: stay in this moment for a second. What do you 202 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: think he's expecting to happen? Um, He's given them riches, 203 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: he's given them a land. All he's asking for in 204 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: return is this ritual and this talisman. And you know 205 00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: he will be invincible. He he'll be ready to go. 206 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 1: But that's not what happens. Instead, an ax falls down 207 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: upon his neck and he has killed. He is decapitated, 208 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: and decapitation is a gruesome, strange way to die. Studies 209 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: show that the brain and the attached sensory organs are 210 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: still functioning for some time, So decapitation is one of 211 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: those few one of those few forms of death where 212 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 1: you can be physically removed from the rest of your 213 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: body and see your headless corpse on your way out. Yeah, 214 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: but of course you'll you'll probably be in such shock 215 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: and so panicked that you won't really calmly observe that 216 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: the assistant is the one draw me. Hassan is the 217 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: one who is believed to have played the headsman and 218 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: separated Moslim from his body. At least that's according to 219 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: reports we've read and um it came out in part 220 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: of the trial that or will learn about here in 221 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: a moment. They didn't stop there, though, did they met No. 222 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: They then proceeded to dismember Maslin. Fully they cut him 223 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: up into eighteen different parts. They also skinned part of 224 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: Maslin's body, and later on they discovered those eighteen parts 225 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: buried in a store room underneath the ground near Mona's 226 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: house in Penang. It was it was underneath this concrete slab, essentially. 227 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: And another big thing here is that they didn't find 228 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: all of him. There were parts of him missing, and 229 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: no one knows what happened to those parts. But the rumors, 230 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: of course you could imagine, are that those parts were 231 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: consumed by the three people, or at the very least 232 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: used in ritual. It's a bit strange for the neighborhood 233 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: hippie to engage in se behavior. But you see Mona Fandi, 234 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: her husband and their assistant or not your friendly neighborhood herbalist. 235 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: They were a different kind of bomo. We'll examine this. 236 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsor, we return bomo. B 237 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: o m o h. This term often gets mistranslated in 238 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 1: the West. It's something that you and I have run 239 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: into before, and people will say, oh, bomo means you know, 240 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: medicine man or the more offensive which doctor right. However, 241 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: at its heart, the term bomo describes a shaman. Indonesian 242 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: speakers often described this profession with the term ducan d 243 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: u k u n. Bomo are mainly herbalist and healers, 244 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: but the practice of magic is inseparable from these medicinal pursuits. Thus, 245 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: a bomo is also a geomancer or at times a sorcerer. 246 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: In Malaysian culture, most bomo are what we would call 247 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: bomo putti p u t i h white bomo. This 248 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: is the equivalent of the right hand path in Western 249 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: magic systems, someone who helps other people while also obeying 250 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: the dictates of shamanic tradition and at the same time 251 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: straddling the tenets of Islam, because this is a heavily 252 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: Muslim population. But that is not the path that Uh 253 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: will continue to call her mona fandi just for the 254 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: ease of pronunciation on our end. Now, it's not the 255 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: path that she chose as well as her husband Um 256 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: and the assistant Um. She was instead a bomo hitam 257 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: or hitam or black Bomo. Now that's a different, different 258 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: path here, the other path, the forbidden path, right, Um, 259 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,880 Speaker 1: who are going to be working with things like spirits 260 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: that are not necessarily supposed to be interacted with. They 261 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: will look at the the laws that are put forth 262 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 1: and whatever whatever religion is current or um popular wherever 263 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: this magic is being done, in this case Islam, and 264 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: they will see those laws as something that are not 265 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:29,960 Speaker 1: meant to be followed or are meant to be uh flouted, right. 266 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: The idea being that working around these laws, these moral 267 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: and magical and social laws, will allow you influence and 268 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: power that would ordinarily be out of your reach. Bomo 269 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: hitam and that's h I t a m are supposed 270 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: to be the sorts of monsters you would see in 271 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: horror movies, you know what I mean? Not in real life. 272 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: To call someone bomo hitam would be very, very offensive 273 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: because it's essentially the same thing as calling a doctor 274 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: or a life saving surgeon, a butcher or a serial killer. 275 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: It's the opposite of what boma are supposed to be doing. However, 276 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: that's what the Mona Fandi group appeared to be, at 277 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: least in the media. When this story hit, it hit big. 278 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: So they did this ritualistically, killed, dismembered, probably used some 279 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,959 Speaker 1: degree the body of Maslin and other rituals, and they 280 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: might have got away with it. Muslim was not reported 281 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: missing until July two, after withdrawing three hundred thousand ring 282 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: it from a bank and directly after the murder, Mona 283 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: Fandy was reported to have gone on a shopping spree. 284 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 1: She didn't just buy, you know, colorful clothing or jewelry 285 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: or so she went big. She bought a Mercedes Benz. 286 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: She bought a facelift. I didn't know you could just 287 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: do that, you could just buy a acelift. Yeah. Yeah. 288 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: It's very strange and one of the most odd things 289 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: here is the timeline, because it is reported that he 290 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: went missing on July two, and it was immediately after 291 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: he withdrew a large amount of money. He did not 292 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,879 Speaker 1: withdraw five hundred thousand ring it right like it was 293 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: originally reported early on, or at least that was the deal. 294 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: I guess, so he at least could withdraw three hundred thousand, 295 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: assuming it was him that withdrew it on that day 296 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: before he went missing, um, and then paid them. So 297 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,239 Speaker 1: he paid them money, sure, yeah, just not all of it. 298 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: Not long after Maslan's murder, the assistant Jerramy Hassan was 299 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 1: picked up for a drug offense. He was under the 300 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: influence of these drugs and this this country with harsh 301 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 1: drug laws while he was under the influence of these 302 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: drugs and speaking with the police, he confessed to them 303 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,879 Speaker 1: that he had been involved in the murder of a 304 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: politician and up and coming politician. Now that you know, 305 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: that's one of those things where you're dealing with somebody 306 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: who may not be you know, of the highest intelligence, 307 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: who was also perhaps high on a substance, who was 308 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: being pressed, you know, by by an interrogators. Then he 309 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: admits to you know, these police officers that he had 310 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: something to do with it, and it may not have 311 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: held much sand if he hadn't had led them. He 312 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: is the person that actually led the police to where 313 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: the body was buried under that concrete slab. Not long after, 314 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: the couple was arrested fanding her husband because Hassan, you know, 315 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: it was on her property. And then also Hassan openly 316 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: said that they did this, they committed this murder together, 317 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: and then the circus began. It was in a way, 318 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: it was it was reminiscent of how American culture treats 319 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: the infamous murderers and the depraved right they get a 320 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: lot of attention. There are celebrities. For a time, Mona 321 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: Fandi as a murder suspect, gained far more fame and 322 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 1: celebrity and public recognition than she ever did as a 323 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: pop singer. And if all she wanted to do was 324 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: to be famous, this strikes me as one of those 325 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: one of those infernal deals you hear about in folklore 326 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: right where the wording is very important. Make a sacrifice 327 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,919 Speaker 1: to me, says some powerful entity or spirit, and I 328 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: shall give you that which you desire. And then they said, 329 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: we will make these sacrifices, will obey the rules of 330 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: this ritual, make me famous, make me famous. Carry it, 331 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: They carry it out, and they sure as heck do 332 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: you get famous. It's strange. It's interesting when you think 333 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: about it. Right now, we don't have we don't have 334 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: any primary source for that kind of conversation, just like 335 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: we don't have any source for what happened to the 336 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: rest of Malslan's body parts, nor do we have a 337 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 1: source for what Mona and her husband and their assistant 338 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: talked about her personally believed. And we also don't know 339 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 1: exactly the circumstances, at least Moslin's side of giving them 340 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: all of this money for these things, as well as 341 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: giving them the land titles because there well we'll talk 342 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: about it towards the end there. But it may have 343 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: been something else going on entirely that didn't even occur 344 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: in the trial, and that would this it would just 345 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: be me speculating. But I think I have I have 346 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: a hypothesis. I would love to hear this. I'm very curious. 347 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: Let's let's explore the trial. So in a way, in 348 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: a very dark way, Mona Fandy finally gets her wish, 349 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: and she seems to be enjoying this new social position, uh, 350 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: somewhere between fascinating and shunned and vilified rightly. So, throughout 351 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: the trial, Mona Fandi exhibits strange, incongruous behaviors. She is 352 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: always cheerful. She's constantly smiling, mugging for the camera, posing 353 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: for the press. She's dressing extravagantly with bright, colorful designs. Uh. 354 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: And she's got a new, a new banging outfit every day. 355 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: Why then, did did they murder this politician? We have 356 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: a we have one guess from a another Bomo, a 357 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: self styled king of the Bomo, Ibraham matt Zin, and 358 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: he said that Fandy and her associates used their shamanistic 359 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: knowledge for evil, because Fandy was consumed by the idea 360 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,199 Speaker 1: of gaining, of getting vengeance, because Fandy was consumed by 361 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: the idea of revenge that the politician Moslan had made 362 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 1: and broken multiple promises, and she said, we will, we 363 00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: will have vengeance. We should also point out that ibraheim 364 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: met In is not the most ironclad source. He gained 365 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: the most notoriety in his home country and in the 366 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: Western news for a series of rituals he conducted in 367 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: an effort to help locate the missing Malaysian Airlines plane 368 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 1: MG three seventy, which we had talked about before. It 369 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: was not successful with this, but later he recanted on 370 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: what he was saying because he he apologized. He said, 371 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,239 Speaker 1: I'm no longer king of the Bomo. These rituals I 372 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: was doing. I was just doing what they told me 373 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:42,280 Speaker 1: to do. And he and he said that some of 374 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: the things he had he had done, like using bamboo 375 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: binoculars in a fish trap hook to help locate the aircraft, said, 376 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, I was peering through these band and really 377 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: see anything. Jeez. So he may not be the best source, 378 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: but he was also a Bomo and he so he 379 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: being one of the most famous uh you know, he 380 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: remarked on this trial. So here's what they found. It's 381 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: very strange. The dates are confusing. The court found that 382 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: the murder occurred sometime between ten pm and midnight on 383 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: July n That's weird, yeah, because they you know, he 384 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: was reported missing on the second of that month, so 385 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: what happened sixteen days later? They think that's when he 386 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 1: was killed. Now, I'm just gonna go ahead and bring 387 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 1: it up. This is where my hypothesis comes in. I 388 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: think if he truly was missing from at least the second, 389 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: we can maybe assume even the first or the last 390 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: of the previous month, because it, you know, generally takes 391 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,879 Speaker 1: that long to declare someone missing. And he took money 392 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: out on the second, I think he must have been 393 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: held captive there because in my mind, you don't, you know, 394 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: have someone missing the day that they pay you three 395 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: hundred ring it, then hang around your house for several days, 396 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,119 Speaker 1: let's say sixteen days in this case, then do a 397 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: ritual way it was a multi day ritual, maybe sixteen 398 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: days though, and if it's a multi day ritual, and 399 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: then the way it's described in every report that I've seen, 400 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 1: of this, It's that it was a very fast thing 401 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: he was having the flower pedal ritual occurred and then 402 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: he got his head chopped off. To me, this seems 403 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: like they were they were holding him captive. I see. 404 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: They were tried in court by a seven person jury, 405 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: this was before trial by jury was abolished in the country, 406 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: and the High Court found all three of them guilty, 407 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: sentenced them to death by hanging, and the legal representatives 408 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: for Hassan the assistant, argued that he couldn't essentially be 409 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: tried as an adult due to his limited mental capacity 410 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: and that our source for these ideas about his cognitive 411 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 1: difficulties do all come from that lawyer. So the trial 412 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: goes on until at which point the High Court finds 413 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: all three defendants guilty and sentences them to death. The 414 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: method of death is hanging, hanging by the neck until dead. Yeah, 415 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,719 Speaker 1: and it's feels old school like it's a British knot 416 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: tied to basically a poll that's running above the floor 417 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: that drops down. And Mona Fandi as well as her 418 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: husband and their assistant seemed to take the news in stride. 419 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: This was bizarre. Should not stop smiling, should brave public? Face. 420 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: She thanked the court and the Malaysian people immediately after 421 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: the guilty verdicts. Yep, that is true, and we know 422 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: that they did exercise some emotion in the intervening time 423 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: because they filed appeals. There was an appeal system here, 424 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: so the sentence was not actually carried out for a 425 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: number of years. Oh yeah, for quite a while. They 426 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: continued through all of the possible appeals processes. Rich of 427 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: course you would do if your life was literally on 428 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: the line. In the court dismissed all their appeals, upheld 429 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: the previous death sentence, and so it came to pass 430 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: that November two thousand one, all three were hanged. A 431 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: prison officials said the three people expressed zero remorse at 432 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: the execution that took place in the early hours of 433 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: the day. Yeah, it says. You know, you'll see reports 434 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: that say they met up with their families. They were 435 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: allowed eight hours or so to meet up with their 436 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: families prior to being killed. They will also find it 437 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: reported that they ate KFC as a last meal. And 438 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,239 Speaker 1: then simultaneously you'll see it reported that they chose not 439 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: to eat a last meal. Right, and part of this 440 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: part of the divergent reporting here comes about from muckraking journalism, 441 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: you know, or sensationalism, I guess well. And there's also 442 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: the problem of translation, and it occurring so long ago, 443 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: right before the Internet was so available, you know, with 444 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: so many sources. This leads us to one thing that 445 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: has been reported in multiple sources and is chilling. So 446 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: Mona Fandy seems calm. Perhaps she has resigned herself to 447 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: this grizzly end, or perhaps she knows something. I think 448 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: she knows something that other people do not. During her execution, 449 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: while she was calm and smiling under her hood, she 450 00:30:53,360 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: uttered her final words aku to kan Mati in England. 451 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: Is that means I will never die? Spooky stuff, certainly? 452 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 1: And uh, in a way, she's right. We played you 453 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: that music of her voice. It's still around. She didn't 454 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 1: fully die. Her corporeal body is gone, but she lives on. 455 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: Let's play another clip from that song and see if 456 00:31:25,880 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: your experience of this music changes. Knowing what you know now, well, 457 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: there's one thing for certain. As we mentioned before, parts 458 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: of this politician Moslin's body were never found. We will 459 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: never know exactly what was done with those because the 460 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: only people who do know are now in their graves. True, 461 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: this case also led for national calls to outlaw witchcraft. 462 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: That's difficult thing to enforce. What is how do we 463 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: define witchcraft? Right? How do we separate that from traditional 464 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: religious beliefs? It was Yeah, I mean that's a that's 465 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: a strange thing. It's always going to be a strange thing. 466 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: I think, very blurry line. We also know that this 467 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: was one of the last jury trials in Malaysia who 468 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: because they stopped using jury trials by jury yep also 469 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: led to a controversial film loosely based on these events, 470 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: film called Ducan A schedule recall is the earlier sided 471 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 1: Indonesian were described to Bomo. The film was completed I 472 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: think around two thousand six, and it was banned from 473 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: release for eleven years because of the controversy surrounding it. 474 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: And then Facebook leaked it. Somebody on Facebook leaked the 475 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: entire movie. That's how I got out. And then after 476 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: it got out, after the demons were out of Pandora's jar, 477 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: the film went on to be quite successful. Yeah. Yeah, 478 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: they decided, well, I guess we can release this and 479 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: you know it is base it's you said, loosely based 480 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,320 Speaker 1: like so loosely based, but it is about a boma 481 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: hit tom of sorts doing some pretty intense things, including, 482 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: you know, a murder, but this time it's spoiler alert 483 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: with a sword, right. Ducan is probably best described as 484 00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:00,280 Speaker 1: a legal thriller slash horror. Right, Oh yeah, sure, very 485 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,760 Speaker 1: The trailer looks cool. The trailer does look cool. So 486 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: at this point we run into a couple of a 487 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,720 Speaker 1: couple of questions, and these are questions that we would 488 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: like to give to you. We want to hear your 489 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: take on this. First, what what do you think about 490 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 1: the practice? This goes back to the idea of the 491 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: serial killer merchandise people. What do you think about the 492 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: practice of making films based on these events and profiting 493 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: from them? Is it ethical? Is it? Is it a 494 00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: big deal? Not a big deal? And what do you 495 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: think about this this strange, sordid grizzly tail. Was their 496 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: actual magic involved or was this all just window dressing? 497 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: So much ornamentation for a human all too real, all 498 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: too mundane con job and murder? And also why why 499 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: do you think, even after they got paid, that they 500 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: decided to kill this person? That is perplexing to me. 501 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: It seems to me that if what they are saying 502 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: is true and their story checks out, they could have 503 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: builked him for so much more money if he was 504 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: willing to pay that much to them. And what if 505 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: it was a case of accident. What if Hassan was 506 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: meant to, like ritualistically to send the acts and then 507 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: in some way avoid harming the guy so that he 508 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: believes he's invulnerable. I mean, that's what you would do 509 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: in a con job, right, Oh? Or yeah, dude, you're 510 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: so right, And maybe he just actually did it, or 511 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: what if they all really believed it, or what if 512 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: they all really believed it? WHOA? So what do you think? 513 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,760 Speaker 1: One of one of the fascinating things about this sort 514 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: of story is that there are multiple stories or in 515 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: recent years, concerning this sort of interaction between magic and 516 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: true crime. You know, we've heard of um, I don't 517 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: know if we ever did a full episode onder this. 518 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: Who heard of the practice in some countries of abduction 519 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: and dismembering people suffering from albatism, Right, So we want 520 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: to hear your stories. Is there anything like this that's 521 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: occurred in your country or your part of the world. 522 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: The US is not immune to this, By the way, 523 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: True Detective Season one. The HBO series is based on 524 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: a very real, very real satanic conspiracy that occurred in 525 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: a church in the South. It's a true story, and 526 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,279 Speaker 1: Nick Pisolato did base a lot of True Detective on it, 527 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: no matter what he said at the beginning. And you know, 528 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: except for that whole whole part with the I don't know, 529 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:51,239 Speaker 1: multidimensional monster guy like whatever he was, who knows about that? 530 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: The King and Yellow that dude, I still want him 531 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: to explain to me. The shot in the last episode 532 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: of season one, Well, maybe I'll just talk to him 533 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: about don't want to spoil it for anybody who may 534 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 1: have not seen the entire thing. Spoiler warning after this 535 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: moment there are spoilers three to one. So the the 536 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,560 Speaker 1: shot where they're trying to follow him down this maze, 537 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: do you remember at the very end the climax, Essentially 538 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,879 Speaker 1: they're following the Yellow King through his essentially portal into 539 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: this other world that he's created, his underworld, to the 540 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: old the Old what seemed to sensibly be a pirate 541 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,839 Speaker 1: fort or something. Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. And then 542 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: I believe one of one or both of the detectives 543 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: look up at the ceiling. I'm just gonna looking at 544 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,320 Speaker 1: policy if he remembers this and it becomes a shot 545 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: of basically the universe or the galaxies or something or 546 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: familiar night sky. Yeah, but they're inside, you know, a 547 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: location somewhere, and they're looking up and seeing this, and 548 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: it gives you this feeling of maybe this is is 549 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: a multidimensional situation. Maybe they went through some kind of 550 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: portal to get somewhere else. I don't understand what's happening. 551 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,440 Speaker 1: And then they fight with this guy who seems to 552 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: have superhuman powers, and then it's over. Uh, this is okay, 553 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: this is interesting. This is maybe a bit of a tangent. 554 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: But it is established during the show that rust Cole, 555 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,959 Speaker 1: the one who sees glimpses this other universe, uh, suffers from, 556 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: or leverages at least hallucinations visions. Right, so he's already 557 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: prone to doing that kind of thing. I read a 558 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: very interesting theory that I do not completely agree with, 559 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: which is that the Yellow King is the King and 560 00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 1: Yellow is some sort of non corporeal entity, and that 561 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,560 Speaker 1: by killing the scarred man, the spaghetti face guy, Rust 562 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: Cole when he sees this multidimensional thing just before he opens, 563 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: he essentially becomes possessed by this entity. And that's why 564 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,760 Speaker 1: at the very end, when Woody Harrelson's character is talking 565 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 1: to him and wants to tell him more about you know, 566 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: what's going to happen and you know, new leads they 567 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: can follow. Uh, that's why Cole immediately dismisses it and 568 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: is calm and serene as they get wheeled out. I 569 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: don't think that's true. I think it is really cool 570 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: and I love a dose of cosmic horror me too. 571 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: I was so excited when it happened, and I thought 572 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 1: we were gonna get a little or a little more something, 573 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: or at least an extra piece of it, like confirming, 574 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: well confirming at least that it was mystical in some way. 575 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:39,240 Speaker 1: But then it was just like, well, all, all's good, 576 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: see see you later. Let's get out of this hospital, 577 00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: right right. And I have I have sort of my 578 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,959 Speaker 1: own origin story about the cult that I would love 579 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: to talk talk with you guys with maybe over a 580 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 1: beer or something. We can have an episode of Beers 581 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: where it gets crazy. Yeah, Beer's where it gets crazy. 582 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: And can we write a prequel? Why not where it's 583 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,720 Speaker 1: it's you and me and Paula Nol and everybody else listening. 584 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: We're all just trying to find out who the Orange 585 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: Duke is. Let's give it a shot. Let's give it 586 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: a shot, and we can just send it to Nick 587 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: Bislano as a as a fan piece. Let's do it 588 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,040 Speaker 1: all right, So let us know if you have some 589 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: ideas for our True Detective prequel, or if you have 590 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: a role you would like to play as always were 591 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: on the lookout for bad guys. And let's know, of course, 592 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,319 Speaker 1: what do you think about the intersection between magic and 593 00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 1: true crime. You can tell us about this on Instagram. 594 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,359 Speaker 1: You can tell us about this on Facebook. Shout out 595 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,640 Speaker 1: to our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. Are 596 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: excellent moderators, are top notch memes uh and a place 597 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: where you can hang out with your fellow listeners. You 598 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: can also call us directly if you would prefer to 599 00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: stay off the digital grid. Yes, our number is one 600 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 1: h three three st d w y t K and everyone. 601 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,440 Speaker 1: I'm here to report that there are officially three hundred 602 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: plus unheard messages right now because there are so many 603 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,399 Speaker 1: coming through. Do you hear me? Three hundred plus and 604 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: they're ranging between a minute and three minutes right now 605 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: as a lot of tape. Uh, and but we're gonna 606 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: get through it. Keep sending them to us. Um, We're 607 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: just we're just gonna keep trucking. It's a lot. I 608 00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 1: was thinking about this upfair. We should we should make 609 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: a thing of it. We should like make a day 610 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: Let's let's go grab uh some popcorn or some snacks 611 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: or something, and then we'll just play through them. What 612 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: do you think, Yeah, that'd be great, or we should 613 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: just do it. We should make an episode, seriously, an 614 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: episode where it's just us in a room playing the 615 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 1: messages and reacting in real time to them, never hearing 616 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:53,879 Speaker 1: them before. Do you think people would listen to that? 617 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: I think so because there's that element of oh, I 618 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: don't know what's coming next, and we won't know either. 619 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, be on the show, say some of our listeners, right, 620 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: all right, let's give it a shot. I'm sold. In 621 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,239 Speaker 1: the meantime, speaking of episode ideas, you can always let 622 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,240 Speaker 1: us know what you think your fellow listeners will enjoy. 623 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: You are the most important part of this show. We 624 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: want to be easy to reach, we want to be 625 00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: easy to talk to. And if you hate social media. You, 626 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: like me, are terrified of the idea of having to 627 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: be on the phone or touch one. You can email 628 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: us directly. We are conspiracy at i heeart radio dot 629 00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: com stuff they don't want you to know. As a 630 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: production of i heeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more 631 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 632 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.