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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to tonight. You're at the volume heavy Wednesday. Everybody,
Speaker 1: oh ball, If you guys are having a great week
Speaker 1: so far. We are continuing our player rankings today with
Speaker 1: number nine and number eight. We also, predictably whoever we
Speaker 1: put at number ten or number eleven. Those fan bases,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be very upset. Got a lot of upset
Speaker 1: joelmb fans, a lot of upset Steph Curry fans. We
Speaker 1: have a male section at the tail end of the
Speaker 1: show where I took a bunch of your guys's stuff.
Speaker 1: I took some specific, well thought out basketball arguments against
Speaker 1: my case. We're gonna kind of have a little debate
Speaker 1: in the mail bag section at the tail end of
Speaker 1: the show. You guys know the Joe before we get started.
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any
Speaker 1: more of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at underscore JSNLTS.
Speaker 1: You guys don't miss show announcement. Don't forget about a
Speaker 1: podcast feed where you get your podcast on our Hoops Tonight.
Speaker 1: Don't forget it's helpful if you leave a rating and
Speaker 1: a review on that front. And the last, but not least,
Speaker 1: keep dropping mail bag questions in those YouTube comments. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be using those mail bag questions to do the
Speaker 1: debate segment at the tail end of the show. So
Speaker 1: if you disagree with the ranking, make a basketball case.
Speaker 1: We'll get into it in the mail bag. All right,
Speaker 1: let's talk some basketball. So before we go to number
Speaker 1: nine and number eight, as I've had to continually kind
Speaker 1: of reiterate, remember the purpose of this list. This is
Speaker 1: not a who's the best basketball player for a series
Speaker 1: that starts tomorrow. Obviously that would look very different, right,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna make multiple references to this today. But
Speaker 1: if I was ranking my top five guys to start
Speaker 1: a series that started tomorrow, Lebron and Steph are both
Speaker 1: in that top five. They're probably not above Jokich and
Speaker 1: Luca for me, but they're in the top five. But
Speaker 1: I don't have them in the top five because this
Speaker 1: isn't how this particular list works. The pursuit of an
Speaker 1: NBA championship is not about a playoff series that starts tomorrow.
Speaker 1: It's not even about a playoff run that starts tomorrow.
Speaker 1: You don't get to teleport to June and just play
Speaker 1: for all the marbles. Especially out in the Western Conference,
Speaker 1: where there's considerably more talent. There are thirteen teams that
Speaker 1: are actively trying to win the title out of the
Speaker 1: Western Conference, or at least actively trying to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I'd say eleven probably want to actually legitimately try to
Speaker 1: win the title, and thirteen are trying to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Oklahoma City, Denver, Minnesota, the Clippers, Lakers, Dallas Mavericks, the
Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns, the New Orleans Pelicans, the Sacramento Kings, the
Speaker 1: Golden State Warriors, the Houston Rockets are gonna be trying
Speaker 1: to win. The Memphis Grizzlies are gonna be right back
Speaker 1: at the top of the conference. And you bet your
Speaker 1: ass Chris Paul and Victor wemb minyama Al in San
Speaker 1: Antonio are gonna be trying to make the playoffs. So again,
Speaker 1: eleven teams desperately fighting in thirteen that are certainly going
Speaker 1: to think they're going to be a playoff team, only
Speaker 1: eight are going to get in. You have to navigate
Speaker 1: eighty two games from October all the way potentially to
Speaker 1: a seven game series that starts in June. That's a
Speaker 1: nine month span, guys. So to put it simply, who's
Speaker 1: the best player in a series that starts tomorrow just
Speaker 1: isn't a realistic way to rank players unless the series
Speaker 1: actually starts tomorrow, which it doesn't. And so lebron KD
Speaker 1: and Steph are all players that I believe can outplay
Speaker 1: basically any star in the league in a series except
Speaker 1: for maybe Luka and Jokic, and I still think they
Speaker 1: can go toe to toe with those guys in a series.
Speaker 1: But they all, all three of those, lebron KD and
Speaker 1: Steph do struggle to maintain that level over eighty two
Speaker 1: games at this point, which is something that if you
Speaker 1: were a GM and we were doing this actual exercise,
Speaker 1: meaning like all four hundred and fifty players are available,
Speaker 1: we are drafting for this upcoming season as a GM.
Speaker 1: You would have to account for that with the way
Speaker 1: that you build your roster. So let's keep that in
Speaker 1: mind as we continue to move forward in this list. Now,
Speaker 1: why specifically do I have lebron kd and Steph in
Speaker 1: the order that I have them in on the list.
Speaker 1: I'm going to get to that when we get to
Speaker 1: the mail bag. I want to quick run through the
Speaker 1: numbers for both guys. First, So number nine in our
Speaker 1: player rankings this year goes to Kevin Durant. He had
Speaker 1: his best regular season since he tore his achilles. He
Speaker 1: played in seventy five games, average twenty seven point one
Speaker 1: points per game, six point six rebounds and five assists
Speaker 1: per game, two point one stocks per game. His shooting
Speaker 1: splits fifty two point three percent from the field forty
Speaker 1: one point three percent from three. He's actually shot over
Speaker 1: forty percent from three in three of his last four seasons.
Speaker 1: A bunch of crazy stats today where you're going to
Speaker 1: see some of these guys showing up. Only two players
Speaker 1: in the entire NBA last year averaged at least twenty
Speaker 1: five points on at least fifty percent from the field
Speaker 1: and at least forty percent from three, and it's the
Speaker 1: two guys we're talking about today, Kevin Durant and Lebron James.
Speaker 1: It is still really rare to be as efficient as
Speaker 1: KD and Lebron were this year. Eighty six percent free
Speaker 1: throws for KD, fifty eight percent in effective field goal
Speaker 1: percentage when you take his field goal percentage and weait
Speaker 1: it for threes, sixty three percent in true shooting percentage
Speaker 1: when you add free throws to that equation. This is
Speaker 1: kd's twelfth consecutive season with a true shooting percentage over
Speaker 1: sixty percent, continuing his dominant run as the most efficient
Speaker 1: volume score in the league. Shooting stats pers energy one
Speaker 1: point one to one points per jump shot, one point
Speaker 1: twenty four points per catch and shoot jump shot that's outstanding,
Speaker 1: one point zero three points per pull up jumper. A
Speaker 1: little lower on the efficiency there. He shoots forty eight
Speaker 1: percent overall on those pull up jump shots are just
Speaker 1: mostly pull up two, so he doesn't get as much
Speaker 1: of the additional value from the three point shot. Did
Speaker 1: shoot fifty four percent on floaters, but he only made
Speaker 1: thirty one over the whole season, so not super high volume.
Speaker 1: Shot seventy two percent at the rim but this is
Speaker 1: where it gets tricky. Kevin Durant only attempted two point
Speaker 1: nine shots per game in the restricted area two point
Speaker 1: nine less than three. These are some of his forward peers.
Speaker 1: His peers at the forward position, Giannis eleven point seven
Speaker 1: attempts per game, Lebron seven point seven, Franz Wagner six
Speaker 1: point three, Pascal Siakam five point nine, Julius Randall five
Speaker 1: point eight, Jalen Brown five point seven, Jason Tatum five
Speaker 1: point four, Pala Bonkaro five point two, Karl Anthony Towns
Speaker 1: another big forward who primarily operates from the perimeter, even
Speaker 1: he gets to the rim five point one times per game.
Speaker 1: Kyle Kuzma, like Kyle Kuzma gets to the rim four
Speaker 1: point eight times per game. For restricted area attempts, Kevin
Speaker 1: Durant just two point nine, so he basically doesn't get
Speaker 1: to the and this has been a career long thing
Speaker 1: for him. By the way, his last year in Golden
Speaker 1: State in twenty nineteen just three point six, which would
Speaker 1: have been at the bottom of that list, and his
Speaker 1: last year in Oklahoma City going all the way back
Speaker 1: to before he went to Golden State, when he was
Speaker 1: in his Athletic Prime just four point three restricted area
Speaker 1: attempts per game, So that's been a consistent thing with it. Now,
Speaker 1: to be clear, he's a way better jump shooter than
Speaker 1: those guys, but that's the main down mark with KD.
Speaker 1: Doesn't really have another weakness. He's one of the top
Speaker 1: tier scorers in the league who brings the efficiency to boot.
Speaker 1: He's a good passer. I don't think he's in that
Speaker 1: great passer tier, but I think he's a really good passer.
Speaker 1: He can do the offensive engine thing. You know, this
Speaker 1: was something that really kind of started to come to
Speaker 1: the surface in Brooklyn. If you guys remember, and I
Speaker 1: did a lot of talking about this when I was
Speaker 1: covering the league separately from The Volume, and then even
Speaker 1: after that when I started with the Volume, there was
Speaker 1: a stretch there where Kevin Durant kind of figured out
Speaker 1: the Steph Curry thing, which was, you know, Kevin Durantz's
Speaker 1: dominant pull up shooter. Right, we talked about it earlier.
Speaker 1: Shot almost fifty percent on pull up jump shots this season.
Speaker 1: So what that means is is as he comes off
Speaker 1: of ball screen, if you do not have a big
Speaker 1: up at the level of the screen, then KD is
Speaker 1: going to come off of that and he's going to
Speaker 1: shoot it, and he's gonna make it half the time, right,
Speaker 1: especially if he gets a decent screen set. So that
Speaker 1: puts you in a predicament as the defense where you
Speaker 1: almost always have to have your big up at the
Speaker 1: level of the screen. From there, as we've talked about,
Speaker 1: every time you bring your big up to the level
Speaker 1: of the screen and the guard is or whoever's guarding
Speaker 1: KD is chasing over the top, those two guys are
Speaker 1: now effectively on the ball. So as your big man
Speaker 1: kind of slips out of that, you have a four
Speaker 1: on three there. And there are all sorts of different
Speaker 1: reads you can make. Right, if they tag that roller,
Speaker 1: there's a skip pass. If they don't tag the roller,
Speaker 1: you hit the roller. There's an advantage with KD because
Speaker 1: he's so damn tall. What a lot of teams will
Speaker 1: do in those situations. And this is something that one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why Steph over the years has struggle
Speaker 1: a little bit with turnovers. He gets these super aggressive coverages,
Speaker 1: but he's six foot three and it's a little bit
Speaker 1: harder to get the ball over those traps and over
Speaker 1: those blitzes, and even just a good high hands contest
Speaker 1: from a big man who comes up to the level
Speaker 1: of screen, it can be challenging. Kevin Durant's seven feet tall,
Speaker 1: so all he has to do and you can see
Speaker 1: it's so funny. I watched a bunch of Kevin Durant
Speaker 1: pick and roll this morning, and it's something that has
Speaker 1: always stood out to me as I've watched him over
Speaker 1: the years. He can kind of take a relatively relaxed
Speaker 1: approach to pick and roll creation because all he really
Speaker 1: has to do is engage that screen defender by coming
Speaker 1: off the ball screen and then you'll see him kind
Speaker 1: of take a step back, just pick up his dribble
Speaker 1: and just pop it right over the top to the
Speaker 1: guy that slip into the rim, or throw that skip
Speaker 1: pass if it's there. And it's because he has that
Speaker 1: physical gift that height to be able to easily see
Speaker 1: over the top. We talk about this all the time,
Speaker 1: but when it comes to defense, one of the best
Speaker 1: ways to give your defense an advantage in rotation is
Speaker 1: to either force one a looping pass, meaning like in
Speaker 1: order to get the ball over the contest, you have
Speaker 1: to throw it on an arc, which means the ball's
Speaker 1: in the air longer, which means as your guys are rotating,
Speaker 1: they have more time to get to their next rotation
Speaker 1: or to get a deflection. Doesn't matter how good your
Speaker 1: four on three advantage is. If you get a deflection
Speaker 1: on the pass, now how all of a sudden that
Speaker 1: pass is going to be bobbled or the offensive player
Speaker 1: is gonna have to come back to get it or
Speaker 1: help maybe even get a force a turnover there. And
Speaker 1: so that's been a big part of what's made KD
Speaker 1: such a successful playmaker over the years is he's just
Speaker 1: become an unbelievable passer in those situations because of his height,
Speaker 1: it's like unfair. He can just easily just drop the
Speaker 1: ball over the top. And so again he's one of
Speaker 1: the top tier scores in the league with the efficiency
Speaker 1: to bring it. He's a good passer. He can do
Speaker 1: the offensive engine thing like I just was breaking down
Speaker 1: for you guys, Like he can just bring the ball
Speaker 1: off the floor and get the defense in rotation consistently.
Speaker 1: He's a very good defensive player both on the ball
Speaker 1: and off the ball, even if his effort can be inconsistent,
Speaker 1: which is something that is consistent with this tier of
Speaker 1: guys here below the top tier superstar tier, but the
Speaker 1: one down mark. The one thing with KD is he
Speaker 1: just doesn't really get to the rim. And that really
Speaker 1: comes down to a couple of different things. I think
Speaker 1: part of it comes down to just how thin he is,
Speaker 1: and that manifests in a couple of different areas, right
Speaker 1: Like for starters, if Kd's trying to drive to the
Speaker 1: basket and someone gives him a little bit of contact
Speaker 1: like a forearm or a hip check or something like that,
Speaker 1: Katie's just more susceptible to getting bumped off of his
Speaker 1: line because of the fact that he's not bringing a
Speaker 1: lot of like momentum with him because he's not particularly
Speaker 1: big and shrunk, and so that just makes it a
Speaker 1: little bit harder to kind of slide through those gaps.
Speaker 1: Like take, for counterexample, a guy like Giannis. He only
Speaker 1: needs this tiny little gap because like he'll do that
Speaker 1: thing where he kind of gathers and like chicken wings
Speaker 1: the hell out of the on ball defender, and then
Speaker 1: like the two guys are coming over and helping, he'll
Speaker 1: just somehow just bulldoze through the two of them and
Speaker 1: get all the way to the rim, like Katie's gonna
Speaker 1: lose a lot of those battles, and that manifests in
Speaker 1: some other areas too. Like Katie defensively is very useful
Speaker 1: off ball player, could play passing lanes, very good rim
Speaker 1: protector on that weak side, very good low man, very
Speaker 1: good defensive rebounder. But like he's gonna get buried by
Speaker 1: a post threat, right because he's not particularly big and
Speaker 1: strongk So like he can't do like the Jason Tatum
Speaker 1: thing where I'm just gonna guard the opposing center if
Speaker 1: that opposing center has any sort of like offensive rebounding
Speaker 1: chops or post up chops, right, Like, that's gonna be
Speaker 1: something that he struggles with. But that's really the one
Speaker 1: downside with KD is it's he's a little thin, which
Speaker 1: prevents him from getting to the rim and limits some
Speaker 1: of his ability to be a switchable defender as as
Speaker 1: it pertains a switching on to centers. But I still
Speaker 1: think that KD on the ball is an outstanding defender
Speaker 1: because he can guard guards and wings really well just
Speaker 1: with his length and his mobility. The second piece of
Speaker 1: him not getting to the rim is just I think
Speaker 1: he's picky, and I think some of this comes down
Speaker 1: to what's happened after the injury. But the big debt,
Speaker 1: the debt giveaway there is the efficiency. He shoots seventy
Speaker 1: two percent at the rim. He shoots seventy two percent
Speaker 1: at the rim because he only goes if it's a
Speaker 1: pretty damn good opportunity, and so he'll be super efficient.
Speaker 1: But he doesn't get there a ton. But again, guys
Speaker 1: who don't apply a ton of rim pressure, that's always
Speaker 1: gonna be something that I account for, just simply because
Speaker 1: I think there's a ton of advantage there in terms
Speaker 1: of collapsing the defense. When when a defense really views
Speaker 1: you as a threat to get to the rim, they're
Speaker 1: just more likely to pack the paint. The second piece
Speaker 1: of it is occupying the rim protector. The more times
Speaker 1: you get to the rim and just shoot shots, it
Speaker 1: brings that big man over so that your big man
Speaker 1: can clean up stuff around the rim. It's an advantage,
Speaker 1: especially when you someone like Usef Nurkic, who can do
Speaker 1: some real damage on the offensive glass. Let's get into
Speaker 1: some play type data. So Kevin in Pick and Roll
Speaker 1: was eighty seventh percentile last year five hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: possessions to be expected as he's sharing that load with
Speaker 1: Bradley Beal and Devin Booker, but got one point one
Speaker 1: zero points per possession. That is outstanding. He personally shot
Speaker 1: fifty one point four percent in pick and roll, like
Speaker 1: we talked about it, shoots forty eight percent on the
Speaker 1: season on pull up jump shots, and as we mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier in detail, his ability to see over the defense
Speaker 1: and get passes over the top when they bring that
Speaker 1: second defender, that screen defender up to the level of
Speaker 1: the screen. Again, that started. That was a big thing
Speaker 1: that we started to see from KDE in Brooklyn, and
Speaker 1: it's extended to Phoenix. They do a lot of guard
Speaker 1: guard stuff. You'll see them do it sometimes with Grayson Allen.
Speaker 1: You'll see them do it sometimes with like Josha Koge,
Speaker 1: like where he's more rolling towards the rim. Grayson Allen's
Speaker 1: more like ghost screens than just popping right back to
Speaker 1: the three point line. But even with Nurkic, he'll run
Speaker 1: up to set the screen. He'll just kind of roll
Speaker 1: into the lane and then he can make the reads
Speaker 1: in those four on threes ISO situations down year for
Speaker 1: KD it's kind of an interesting little thing with KD.
Speaker 1: His efficiency as it pertains to one on one basketball
Speaker 1: actually was low for what we expect from KD. But
Speaker 1: then he was outstanding coming off of screen. So as
Speaker 1: we talked about one point one zero coming off of
Speaker 1: on ball screens, one point one five points per possession
Speaker 1: coming off of off ball screens, he shot fifty five
Speaker 1: percent field goals on shots coming off of off ball screens.
Speaker 1: So like when KD has a screen, he's still one
Speaker 1: of the most deadly scorers in the league. His on
Speaker 1: an island scoring did go down a level last year,
Speaker 1: though he had four hundred and twenty nine ISOs including passes,
Speaker 1: according to Synergy, got just three hundred and eighty eight
Speaker 1: points out of him. That zero point nine zero points
Speaker 1: per possession. That's in the forty first percent tile that
Speaker 1: ranked just twenty second out of twenty four players to
Speaker 1: attempt at least two hundred and fifty shots out of
Speaker 1: ISO last year, or two hundred fifty possessions. I should say,
Speaker 1: just didn't shoot well individually. Kd's individual field goal percentage
Speaker 1: in ISOs last year was just forty three point nine percent,
Speaker 1: which is obviously down for what we expect from KD
Speaker 1: post ups. He was over a point per possession, but
Speaker 1: not by much. He was at two hundred and eighty
Speaker 1: four points and two hundred and seventy seven post ups.
Speaker 1: That comes out to one point zero three points per possession.
Speaker 1: That's pretty average. I want to say it's like forty
Speaker 1: eight percent tile. That was twelve out of the eighteen
Speaker 1: players to make our high volume post up list with
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty reps. So definitely a down year
Speaker 1: for KD as it pertains to scoring one on one
Speaker 1: like man up with a defender. But he's still about
Speaker 1: as good as you'll find in the league anything coming
Speaker 1: off of a screen looking to score or coming off
Speaker 1: of a screen looking to pass, as we saw in
Speaker 1: the points per possession data. So in summary, Katie has
Speaker 1: definitely lost some of his athletic juice and that's manifesting
Speaker 1: in his really low rim attempts and then just on
Speaker 1: an island scoring which has gone down. But he's still
Speaker 1: one of the most profoundly impactful two way players we
Speaker 1: have in the league for several reasons. One, he's still
Speaker 1: a deadly efficient scorer coming off of any kind of screen. Two,
Speaker 1: he has the size and court vision to torch defenses
Speaker 1: as a passer coming off of those screens, and when
Speaker 1: he's engaged, he's an extremely versatile defender both on and
Speaker 1: off the ball. Most importantly, he fits the criteria of
Speaker 1: this list very well. I've talked about how this list
Speaker 1: is kind of a combination of like regular season availability
Speaker 1: and motor, Like how often you play at the top
Speaker 1: of your game in the regular season. Two how well
Speaker 1: your games game translates to the playoffs? But three how
Speaker 1: easy is it to build around you? Again, remember, in
Speaker 1: this thought exercise, we're drafting these guys, but in theory,
Speaker 1: after we're done, we're going back around and we're drafting
Speaker 1: other players, right, and so like, if I had KD
Speaker 1: as my number one, how would it be to build
Speaker 1: around him? If I had Joel Embiid as my number one,
Speaker 1: how would it be to build around him? And as
Speaker 1: we've talked about, I find KD to be a much
Speaker 1: easier player to build around than a Joel Embid. Joel
Speaker 1: and B can only defend in one type of defensive scheme.
Speaker 1: On offense, he kind of needs everything to run through him.
Speaker 1: He struggles with read and react with lots of other
Speaker 1: good basketball players on the floor. I know KD can
Speaker 1: be helio centric. I could ask KD to bring the
Speaker 1: ball to the floor on twenty five pick and rolls
Speaker 1: every single game and to just dominate as a helio
Speaker 1: central shock creator. He doesn't really play that style, but
Speaker 1: he could if I needed him to. Kadie can also
Speaker 1: play five out on the ball as the guy who's
Speaker 1: making the decisions coming off the screens. He can also
Speaker 1: play five out off the ball, operating more with an
Speaker 1: advantage on the defensive end. I can use him in
Speaker 1: a switching scheme. He could pretty much guard one through
Speaker 1: four and most fives that aren't superstars right. He can
Speaker 1: guard off the ball in a bunch of different contexts, jumping,
Speaker 1: passing lanes. More as a guy who's playing above the break,
Speaker 1: he could play the low man position. I could use
Speaker 1: him to blitz. He's got all sorts of length and
Speaker 1: athleticism to use flashing up high on the ball if
Speaker 1: for putting two on the ball. I can just do
Speaker 1: so much more with KD if I'm building a team
Speaker 1: around him, than I can with someone like Joel Embiid.
Speaker 1: And so that for me is like a great example,
Speaker 1: like if I'm looking at those three categories, regular season
Speaker 1: availability and motor is probably Kevin Durant's biggest weakness out
Speaker 1: of those three categories. But he just had a season
Speaker 1: where he played what seventy five games was the number again,
Speaker 1: I'm looking at it, seventy five, So he just played
Speaker 1: seventy five games. So whatever your regular season availability concerns are,
Speaker 1: he just had his best season of that since his injury.
Speaker 1: Postseason translatability I actually had I had a comment yesterday
Speaker 1: talking about how KD isn't a good playoff player, and
Speaker 1: I just very much disagree with that. He did have
Speaker 1: a rough series in twenty twenty two against Boston, but
Speaker 1: that was literally just four games. Overall. In thirty one
Speaker 1: playoff games since returning from his Achilles injury, he's averaging
Speaker 1: thirty points, eight rebounds in five assists on sixty one
Speaker 1: percent true shooting, So by any measure, he's still one
Speaker 1: of the most dependably good playoff players in the league.
Speaker 1: So again, had a good available regular season last year.
Speaker 1: Although that I would argue that's his one main kind
Speaker 1: of weakness is how consistent can he be in the
Speaker 1: eighty two postseason translatability. I give him an a in versatility,
Speaker 1: how well he fits alongside other players, and how many
Speaker 1: different schemes he can play in. I'd give him an
Speaker 1: A plus. I think he's one of the best in
Speaker 1: the league plugging into playing in any different basketball circumstances.
Speaker 1: And even as it pertains to the injuries, they were
Speaker 1: all regular season injuries. He never missed a playoff game
Speaker 1: since coming back in twenty twenty one, and a lot
Speaker 1: of them were fluky, like like there was the one
Speaker 1: weird one where he kind of twisted his ankle and
Speaker 1: warm ups, there was the I think he had two
Speaker 1: separate instances where someone fell into his knee, Like just
Speaker 1: someone fell into his knee. That's not necessarily a durability concern.
Speaker 1: That's a fluky injury that might happen. So like again,
Speaker 1: I understand, and this for all three guys, for KD,
Speaker 1: Stephan Lebron, there's gonna be a lot of guys talking
Speaker 1: about like first round sweep or you know, first round
Speaker 1: gentlemen sweep, or always in the play in or whatever
Speaker 1: it is, or missed the playoffs and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Basketball is a team sport, and these are
Speaker 1: guys that are playing on rosters that literally do not
Speaker 1: have good two way players outside of their stars. And
Speaker 1: that's just something as you go up in the league,
Speaker 1: as you look at Oklahoma City, as you look at Denver,
Speaker 1: as you look at Boston, as you look at the Knicks,
Speaker 1: like all these teams have like four or five role
Speaker 1: players who are legitimately good on both ends of the floor,
Speaker 1: which just makes playing basketball a lot easier and is
Speaker 1: certainly going to accentuate what stars bring to the table. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Katie was one of those guys a lot of people
Speaker 1: had lower on their list. I still think he's firmly
Speaker 1: in the top ten I have met. I have him
Speaker 1: at number nine in this year's list.
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Speaker 1: Number eight Lebron James last year seventy one games, played
Speaker 1: twenty five point seven points per game, seven point three
Speaker 1: rebounds per game, eight point three assists per game. Here's
Speaker 1: another crazy stat for you. Lebron James was one of
Speaker 1: just three players in the entire NBA last year to
Speaker 1: average at least twenty five points, seven rebounds, and seven assists.
Speaker 1: It was Lebron James, Luka, Doncic, Nikola Jokic. That's it.
Speaker 1: In the entire league. The all around play that Lebron
Speaker 1: brings to the table is still extremely rare around the league.
Speaker 1: One point eight stocks per game is shooting splits. This
Speaker 1: is insane. Fifty four percent from the field, forty one
Speaker 1: percent from three to seventy five percent from the line.
Speaker 1: That amounts to sixty percent in effective field goal percentage
Speaker 1: and sixty three percent in true shooting percentage. He's still,
Speaker 1: even as he's coming into his age forty season, one
Speaker 1: of the most efficient volume scores in the league. Only
Speaker 1: two players in the NBA last year, as we mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier with Kevin Durant, averaged at least twenty five on
Speaker 1: fifty percent from the field and forty percent from three.
Speaker 1: It was Kevin Durant and Lebron James. And the crazy
Speaker 1: thing is Lebron got better as the season went along
Speaker 1: from the over his last twenty two games, and I
Speaker 1: want to say this was like February twenty third on
Speaker 1: or something like that, I can't remember the exact number,
Speaker 1: but over Lebron's last twenty two games he averaged twenty
Speaker 1: eight points, eight rebounds in tennysis on fifty eight percent
Speaker 1: from the field and forty five percent from three twenty
Speaker 1: eight to eight to ten on sixty seven percent true shooting.
Speaker 1: That's not just that's not like good for Lebron. That's
Speaker 1: MVP level production that he put up over the final
Speaker 1: third of the season or so. And then he followed
Speaker 1: it up with an impressive series against Denver twenty eight points,
Speaker 1: seven rebounds, nine to sis sixty four percent true shooting.
Speaker 1: He also shot four out of five from the field
Speaker 1: and clutched situations. Remember after the Western Conference Finals sweep,
Speaker 1: I said the Lakers needed to improve in three areas
Speaker 1: to surpass Denver. The first two were roster related. I
Speaker 1: won't get him to it right now, but it had
Speaker 1: to do with Rob Plinket what he needed to do
Speaker 1: over the summer. The last one, though, if you guys,
Speaker 1: remember I said Lebron, James, and Anthony Davis had to
Speaker 1: hit jump shots. They had to hit jump shots over
Speaker 1: the top of the defense to keep up with Jokichen
Speaker 1: Murray in a shootout, especially in crunch time. And Lebron
Speaker 1: did that. He went in the gym, he figured it out,
Speaker 1: and he did that. He shot thirty nine percent on
Speaker 1: threes in the series. After getting just zero point eighty
Speaker 1: six points per jump shot in the twenty twenty three sweep,
Speaker 1: he bumped that all the way up to one point
Speaker 1: zero six points per jump shot. So a massive improvement
Speaker 1: year over year in jump shooting. But the problem was
Speaker 1: is those first two roster related issues just simply were
Speaker 1: not addressed. So even though Lebron brought the jump shooting,
Speaker 1: even though Lebron brought the clutch shot making. It just
Speaker 1: wasn't enough to make it any more than a competitive
Speaker 1: five game loss. And again, that series was closer than
Speaker 1: a you had two Jamal Murray game winners in that game.
Speaker 1: That series could have been three two Lakers very easily
Speaker 1: if a couple of things go differently. But then Lebron
Speaker 1: followed that up by winning MVP of the Olympics by
Speaker 1: essentially being a Swiss Army knife for them on both
Speaker 1: ends of the floor. So the point is Lebron has
Speaker 1: actually been one of the five best basketball players on
Speaker 1: the planet since February. I'd argue he's been the third
Speaker 1: best player behind Yo Kitchen Luca. Lebron is the only
Speaker 1: player that he is the play He's been better than
Speaker 1: everyone else in the league since February except for those
Speaker 1: two guys. Now he's lower on this list for the
Speaker 1: same age related stuff that we're going to get too shortly,
Speaker 1: the same stuff that's plaguing everybody that's down on this
Speaker 1: part of the list. But just make no mistake, Lebron
Speaker 1: is there's not many players playing better basketball than Lebron
Speaker 1: at this point in time. Shooting stats pers energy one
Speaker 1: point one to one points per jump shot one point
Speaker 1: twenty seven points per catch and shoot jump shot and
Speaker 1: out standing catch and shoot season for Lebron. There are
Speaker 1: one hundred and seventeen players in the league. Ten did
Speaker 1: at least two hundred catch and shoot jump shots. Lebron
Speaker 1: ranked fifteenth out of one hundred and seventeen players in
Speaker 1: catch and shoot efficiency. He also got zero point ninety
Speaker 1: six points per off the dribble jumper. That was sixty
Speaker 1: third percent tile, so above average. Obviously not as good
Speaker 1: as his skill oriented piers like I think Katie If
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, Katie was at one point zero three
Speaker 1: and then Steph was at one point zero five, so
Speaker 1: they're both like roughly ten percent better in that vicinity
Speaker 1: than Lebron is a pull up shooter, but Lebron had
Speaker 1: a I say ten percent relative, not ten percent in percentage.
Speaker 1: But Lebron still a a above average pull up jump
Speaker 1: shooter forty four percent on floaters, forty seven percent on hooks.
Speaker 1: This is an interesting piece though. Lebron sixty seven percent
Speaker 1: at the rim. Now that's still outstanding. That's eighty third
Speaker 1: percent tile. But this is an interesting trend to keep
Speaker 1: an eye on with Lebron. He is starting to trend
Speaker 1: down in that that department, sixty seven percent at the
Speaker 1: room this year, sixty nine percent at the rim the
Speaker 1: year before, seventy one percent at the rim the year
Speaker 1: before that, and seventy two percent at the rim the
Speaker 1: year before that. So I've seen a steady kind of
Speaker 1: like trending down very slightly in Lebron's rim finishing, and
Speaker 1: that's a big part of why this late career jump
Speaker 1: shooting surge that he's having is so important for him.
Speaker 1: Playmaking stuff with Lebron pick and roll one point zero
Speaker 1: six points per possession, which is in the eightieth percentile.
Speaker 1: That's very good, however, just seven hundred and twenty seven possessions,
Speaker 1: so he didn't make our high volume list, but that's
Speaker 1: to be expected. He's sharing touches kind of similar to
Speaker 1: KD with Booker and Beal, Lebron's sharing pick and roll
Speaker 1: touches with d LO and Austin Reeves. But he was
Speaker 1: again in the eightieth percentile for pick and roll ISO
Speaker 1: similar to KD, not as a two grade of a
Speaker 1: season zero point nine to seven points per possession on
Speaker 1: three hundred and twenty eight reps, only three spots ahead
Speaker 1: of where KD was in that high volume list, Lebron
Speaker 1: ranked nineteenth out of twenty four players to attempt at
Speaker 1: least two hundred and fifty. However, in the post, Lebron
Speaker 1: James was the second best high volume post player in
Speaker 1: the entire NBA last year. He ran two hundred and
Speaker 1: ninety one post ups got one point one to two
Speaker 1: points per possession including passes. Only Nikola Jokic was better
Speaker 1: out of the eighteen players to run at least two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty post ups. So Lebron is still absolutely
Speaker 1: dominant with his back to the basket when he can
Speaker 1: bully players towards the rim and playmake out of that
Speaker 1: as team send multiple defenders. There are two weaknesses with
Speaker 1: Lebron that I want to call attention to. One, he
Speaker 1: can be one of the most inconsistent effort guys in
Speaker 1: the regular season among the stars, as to be expected
Speaker 1: he turns forty four months from today, But it's a
Speaker 1: reality when you're trying to build a roster around him. Right,
Speaker 1: Just like I was talking about Katie So on defense,
Speaker 1: the main area you'll see that manifest with Lebron is
Speaker 1: him just he has a very important job within the
Speaker 1: Laker defense. He's typically the low man. That means AD
Speaker 1: is typically coming up higher to the level of the screen.
Speaker 1: Lebron is the guy kind of filling in behind him
Speaker 1: to tag the roller, contest shots at the rim, get
Speaker 1: defensive rebounds, and close out to the weak side. That
Speaker 1: is an incredibly important job on the defense. If you
Speaker 1: were ranking the roles on defense, obviously on the ball
Speaker 1: and you're pick and roll defender, probably your two most important.
Speaker 1: But that next most important role is that low man position.
Speaker 1: And so when Lebron's being lazy down there, when he's
Speaker 1: letting role men catch and fit, like you will see
Speaker 1: dozens of times this year, Lebron will just let someone
Speaker 1: catch on the role in dunk because he just doesn't
Speaker 1: feel like making the rotation right. So like that's part
Speaker 1: of it, not fighting for defensive rebounds, that kind of thing,
Speaker 1: like you're gonna see. He'll always lock in and do
Speaker 1: it and crunch time or whenever the team needs to
Speaker 1: go on a run or something like that. But he
Speaker 1: will have extended stretches during the course of the regular
Speaker 1: season where he just doesn't really try that hard on
Speaker 1: the defensive end of the four. I still think Lebron's
Speaker 1: one of the better defenders in the league. When he's trying,
Speaker 1: he just you're only going to see that big time moments,
Speaker 1: big time national TV games and like playoff games. That's
Speaker 1: pretty much it at this phase of his career. On offense,
Speaker 1: or you see that laziness manifest is how physically aggressive
Speaker 1: he's being towards the rim. One being willing to post up,
Speaker 1: two being willing to drive hard in isolation situations. The
Speaker 1: big one you'll see three is lazy play ma in
Speaker 1: ball screens, as I've talked about a lot, in order
Speaker 1: to get an opening for to make a play as
Speaker 1: a passer in ball screens, you have to engage that
Speaker 1: screen defender by getting downhill or by being deadly enough
Speaker 1: as a shooter that he has to come up. You
Speaker 1: have to make him guard you. If you do not
Speaker 1: make him guard you and he can drop back, there's
Speaker 1: not gonna be anything open. And you'll see Lebron a
Speaker 1: lot in the regular season kind of dribble off picks
Speaker 1: lazy and just try to like jam a pocket pass
Speaker 1: in there that's not open, or throw a skip pass
Speaker 1: to a guy who's guarded and still have to put
Speaker 1: it really high and then the guy have to jump
Speaker 1: way back on his heels to grab it, and the
Speaker 1: advantage is gone right, so like, or there was no
Speaker 1: advantage to begin with, and so like. There are definitely
Speaker 1: some things with Lebron where he can be lazy. In
Speaker 1: the regular season, He's simply not as good as his
Speaker 1: younger peers, the guys who are in their twenties, at
Speaker 1: just carrying the load time and time again over an
Speaker 1: eighty two game season. That is something you have to
Speaker 1: account for when you're building a roster around him when
Speaker 1: the season starts in October. The second piece of it.
Speaker 1: Even within the playoff context, when Lebron is engaged, he's
Speaker 1: not as good at doing everything as he was when
Speaker 1: he was younger in terms of energy resources. He does
Speaker 1: seem to get a little fatigue. A couple of examples.
Speaker 1: Game one against Denver, in the third quarter, he had
Speaker 1: a stretch like I described just a second ago, where
Speaker 1: he got lazy with the ball as a playmaker because
Speaker 1: he was tired, had a couple of bad turnovers. It
Speaker 1: sparked a Denver run. Game five against Denver, they win
Speaker 1: that game if Lebron secures a defensive rebound against Aaron
Speaker 1: Gordon where he had inside position. Now, Lebron has been
Speaker 1: one of the best defensive rebounding forwards in the league
Speaker 1: for a long time. This is something he used to
Speaker 1: literally never lose. He never used to lose rebounding battles
Speaker 1: like that. The reason why he did is because he
Speaker 1: was doing so much and at this phase in his career,
Speaker 1: he still is susceptible to a little bit of fatigue,
Speaker 1: and he lost a physical battle that he doesn't typically lose.
Speaker 1: And so again, I thought he was mostly magnificent in
Speaker 1: that series outside of those sorts of things. But the
Speaker 1: point is, in order to get the most out of
Speaker 1: Lebron James, you need to surround him with enough support
Speaker 1: for him to be able to conserve energy and pick
Speaker 1: his spots. Because when he engages himself, he's still one
Speaker 1: of the very best players in the world. But he
Speaker 1: can't be consistently engaged without running into fatigue related issues.
Speaker 1: And so again, in the regular season, it's more just
Speaker 1: like conserving energy. In the playoffs, it's like he legitimately
Speaker 1: can run out of energy sometimes. But if I were
Speaker 1: draft like, it's just something that I'd have to account for.
Speaker 1: If I was a GM and I was drafting a
Speaker 1: team now if we tweaked the rules, if I were
Speaker 1: drafting players for a playoff series, just a playoff series,
Speaker 1: not a season, but a playoff series that started tomorrow.
Speaker 1: Nicole Jokitch and Luka Dancic are the only two players
Speaker 1: that I'd take over Lebron. That's how insane of a
Speaker 1: high level he's been playing at Since February. He's still
Speaker 1: one of the top tier shot creators in the league
Speaker 1: in both volume and efficiency. As we know, there just
Speaker 1: are many players who can give you twenty five points
Speaker 1: and eight assists a game. Jokich, Luca and Trey Young
Speaker 1: were the only other guys in the league last year
Speaker 1: other than Lebron to give you twenty five points and
Speaker 1: eight assists. That's how rare that is still in this league.
Speaker 1: In Lebron, when he's engaged, is a much better defender
Speaker 1: than all of those guys, and that's why I have
Speaker 1: him that high. I'd have him third if I just
Speaker 1: needed to win a series that starts tomorrow. But he
Speaker 1: requires a great deal of support in the regular season
Speaker 1: and can't quite scale up his athleticism in the postseason
Speaker 1: like he used to, which makes the job of building
Speaker 1: around him a little bit tougher than it was when
Speaker 1: he was in his prime, and certainly tougher than some
Speaker 1: of the guys that are above him on this list. So
Speaker 1: for a list like this, I feel like number eight
Speaker 1: is the right spot for Lebron James on two hour mailback,
Speaker 1: here's our first question. This one is not necessarily a question,
Speaker 1: just an opportunity to kind of talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the ranking. So what is my rationale for putting
Speaker 1: Lebron eight, KD nine, Steph ten? Why did I have
Speaker 1: them ranked in that order? Now, mind you, I have
Speaker 1: them minusculely separated. They're not. This is not tiers of players.
Speaker 1: They're all jammed up with each other, right, as I've
Speaker 1: said multiple times, from five to eleven, they're all right
Speaker 1: next to each other. In my opinion, the tiers are
Speaker 1: more indicated as a separation in level of play. So
Speaker 1: here's the deal. Steph was a clear third place for me.
Speaker 1: In addition to missing the playoffs, Even if we all
Speaker 1: agree that it mostly had to do with the roster,
Speaker 1: Steph just didn't play well to end the season. Post
Speaker 1: All Star Break, Steph Curry twenty three points, five rebounds,
Speaker 1: five assists, fifty seven percent tru shooting, Lebron James twenty
Speaker 1: eight points, eight rebounds, ten assists, sixty seven percent true shooting.
Speaker 1: Like that's just a simple example to show you, guys,
Speaker 1: the giant chasm and the level of play between those
Speaker 1: two guys. Ten percentage points in true shooting, ten additional assists,
Speaker 1: three additional rebounds, five additional points every game. Katie and
Speaker 1: Lebron both are just simply playing at a higher level
Speaker 1: than Steph. Now, I understand Steph had two really good
Speaker 1: games at the end of the Olympics, and I personally
Speaker 1: am really excited about that, and that's a big part
Speaker 1: of why I think he's going to have a bounce
Speaker 1: back year. But I can't just take those two games
Speaker 1: to erase months of additional evidence that Katie and Lebron
Speaker 1: are just playing at a higher level right now. And
Speaker 1: then between Katie and Lebron, I thought Lebron was clearly
Speaker 1: at the higher level among the three for all the
Speaker 1: reasons that I just broke down in the two breakdowns
Speaker 1: that I did, so that naturally left Katie in the middle. So,
Speaker 1: like again, I thought the Lebron, Katie Steph in that
Speaker 1: order was pretty straightforward. Had a bunch of Steph related questions,
Speaker 1: So let's get into some of those right now. You're
Speaker 1: entitled to your opinion, but having Steph Curry below Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis KDI or Anthony Edwards at this at this point
Speaker 1: in their careers is blasphemous. Blasphemous. Ad cannot, I repeat,
Speaker 1: cannot be a number one option on a championship team.
Speaker 1: He's probably the best defender in the league, but he's
Speaker 1: insanely limited on offense. If your list is just based
Speaker 1: on October through June picking the best player for your team,
Speaker 1: you're really taking Ad over Steph. Sounds a bit like
Speaker 1: Lakers fan biased to me coming from a Lakers fan myself,
Speaker 1: and is still way too raw to be taken over.
Speaker 1: Curry and Katie's team underachieves time and time again despite
Speaker 1: him really being a plug and play masterpiece of a player.
Speaker 1: It's just that you know you can't count on him
Speaker 1: being that alpha dog, and Steph is just a killer.
Speaker 1: One could even argue that Tatum should be below Curry too,
Speaker 1: but defensive versatility, age, availability, and champ status certainly give
Speaker 1: him the case to be above. But again, are you
Speaker 1: really taking Tatum over your number one guy as your
Speaker 1: number one guy over steph friggin Curry Nah. As for Embiid,
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with him at eleven. He's
Speaker 1: an over hyped cry baby that's always hurt, always sulking, foulgrifting,
Speaker 1: and just looking for a whistle if he can't assert
Speaker 1: physical dominance or if his jumper isn't falling way too
Speaker 1: one dimensional, way too fragile, way too mentally weak to
Speaker 1: take for an eighty two game run, especially deep in
Speaker 1: the playoffs when his parlor tricks stop working with the refs.
Speaker 1: I'd take any of these top ten guys over him
Speaker 1: any day of the week. Awesome show, brother, Keep up
Speaker 1: a good work and keep creating a platform for us
Speaker 1: hoop lovers to talk real basketball, unbiased and educated based
Speaker 1: on arguments and facts, not just blatant smack talk, fangirling
Speaker 1: and personal preference slash opinion. Thank you for taking the
Speaker 1: time to break down your basketball case. Thanks for supporting
Speaker 1: the show. One of my favorite things about what we
Speaker 1: do here at Hoops Tonight is make just a community
Speaker 1: for hoopers to hang out and talk basketball. So that
Speaker 1: means a lot to me that you guys see it
Speaker 1: that way. I'll go kind of down the list. So
Speaker 1: the first comment you made about Anthony Davis saying that
Speaker 1: he's insanely limited on offense, I kind of disagree with that.
Speaker 1: First of all, we know Ad can be the best
Speaker 1: player on a championship team because Tatum just did it.
Speaker 1: So like, you certainly can build a championship roster around
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis, who just probably would need a little more
Speaker 1: help than some of the guys that are above him.
Speaker 1: Right as far as the offense thing, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think Tatum had a I think Anthony Davis had a
Speaker 1: rough series two years ago, the Western Conference final series.
Speaker 1: I thought Jokic kicked his ass. I thought Ad kind
Speaker 1: of went out soft, Like I didn't think he fought
Speaker 1: hard enough in that circumstance, Like I think he kind
Speaker 1: of let Yokic walk all over him. But if you
Speaker 1: just kind of pull that specific series out, he's been
Speaker 1: an incredible playoff player Outside of that. He just averaged
Speaker 1: twenty eight points per game in the playoffs against Denver.
Speaker 1: He was straight up barbecuing Jokichen one on one. He
Speaker 1: ran thirty four ISOs and post ups in the series
Speaker 1: and got forty points. That's one point one to eight
Speaker 1: points per possession, which is literally amazing. And I mean
Speaker 1: we got to like, obviously the twenty twenty two to
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one seasons he was hurt, but it's like
Speaker 1: twenty twenty best player or not best player, but like
Speaker 1: just as good as Lebron, Like I had Lebron one
Speaker 1: in eighty four after that playoff run, So like eighty
Speaker 1: was basically at Lebron's level for a title run and
Speaker 1: was an incredible offensive player and an incredible defensive player.
Speaker 1: And then I want to say, he had thirteen playoff
Speaker 1: games before twenty twenty and he averaged like thirty one
Speaker 1: points and thirteen rebounds a game. So like, the idea
Speaker 1: that he's an insanely limited offensive player is just something
Speaker 1: that I would disagree with. He just had a really
Speaker 1: rough offensive series against Denver two years ago when they
Speaker 1: faced him in the Western Conference finals. Now, is he
Speaker 1: as offensively as some of the other superstars in the league. No,
Speaker 1: but he's still an insanely good offensive player. Like and
Speaker 1: here's the other thing too, even beyond the on ball stuff,
Speaker 1: I think it's unfair if we give Jokic like a
Speaker 1: ton of bonus points for being this deadly roll man
Speaker 1: who like catches on the roll with with Jamal Murray
Speaker 1: and hits those floaters in the lane. And there's no
Speaker 1: doubt that Joki is probably the best at that, and
Speaker 1: he's certainly better than Ad. But Ad is also one
Speaker 1: of the best role men in the league, and he's
Speaker 1: a huge part of what makes the Laker pick and
Speaker 1: roll attack so deadly because he can short roll and
Speaker 1: make floaters right or he could short roll to the
Speaker 1: foul line and catch and make quick ISO moves. Off
Speaker 1: the catch, he can roll a little bit further into
Speaker 1: the lane and make floaters right or quick dribble moves
Speaker 1: into hook shots. He can also roll hard to the
Speaker 1: raymany brings vertical gravity like the actual spacing to be
Speaker 1: able to throw lob passes to him. Like Ad is
Speaker 1: a far more useful offensive player than I think people
Speaker 1: give him credit for. As for Kevin Durant Anthony Edwards.
Speaker 1: Without getting into all the individual comparisons here what else,
Speaker 1: Here's what I'll say. Remember that if I said everyone
Speaker 1: is healthy and the series is starting tomorrow, I'm doing
Speaker 1: a different list. As I mentioned earlier, I'm going Jokichen
Speaker 1: Luka and then I have Lebron three. Steph's probably four
Speaker 1: for me on that list, So when everyone's healthy, I
Speaker 1: do think Steph is a better player than it. I
Speaker 1: do think Steph is a better player than KD. I
Speaker 1: do think Steph is a better player than AD. But
Speaker 1: the point is Steph hasn't been playing at that level
Speaker 1: as of late. Here's a simple stat to break this down.
Speaker 1: Steph in his last nineteen games to end last year,
Speaker 1: failed to reach twenty five points in nine of them.
Speaker 1: Think about that, when they desperately needed him to score
Speaker 1: because they don't have much offensive talent, he couldn't even
Speaker 1: get to twenty five points in half the games over
Speaker 1: the final fourth of the season. I am genuinely sincerely
Speaker 1: rooting for Steph to have a bounce back year, and
Speaker 1: I believe he will, but it's all theoretical at this point,
Speaker 1: which makes him a riskier pick, which puts him lower
Speaker 1: on this type of list. As far as the MBD
Speaker 1: piece goes, I'm actually surprised and how many people kind
Speaker 1: of agreed with me. There are obviously some pissed off
Speaker 1: Sixers fans that was to be expected, but seems to
Speaker 1: me like most of the other people, at least maybe
Speaker 1: not as far down as eleven, but at least agree
Speaker 1: that MB can't be on that top tier superstar list
Speaker 1: anymore when you're factoring in all of his physical limitations
Speaker 1: in terms of health and his inability to impact winning
Speaker 1: as as well as he does in the regular season
Speaker 1: when he gets to the postseason. And the thing with
Speaker 1: NB two is now he's over thirty, so it's not
Speaker 1: like the health issues are going to get better for
Speaker 1: him at this point. Putting together a top twenty five
Speaker 1: list is tough work considering all the talent in the league,
Speaker 1: so I commend you doing the work and sharing with
Speaker 1: the viewers. If your criteria for the list is based
Speaker 1: on who you would pick for an eighty two game
Speaker 1: season out of a vacuum, it doesn't make sense to
Speaker 1: put Curry at ten, considering the lack of help on
Speaker 1: his team was directly responsible for the efficiency slumps this
Speaker 1: past year. When you put Curry on an All Star
Speaker 1: team or an Olympic roster, or even when his team
Speaker 1: plays like above average NBA players allah of the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two playoffs, he is clearly an MVP candidate, even
Speaker 1: in this late stage of his career. An important note
Speaker 1: about Steph's game is the attention he demands when he's
Speaker 1: on the floor, which cannot be quantified from counting stats,
Speaker 1: since he's arguably the most heavily guarded player in NBA history.
Speaker 1: Put Shay on the Warriors, and I would argue they
Speaker 1: don't even sniff a play in spot in the stack
Speaker 1: Western Conference, having won the CHIP only two years ago.
Speaker 1: Over a better team holds far more weight than Ant
Speaker 1: or Shay, who are projected to have better seasons, neither
Speaker 1: of which are guarded like Steph. So here's the thing.
Speaker 1: As far as I agree that the Warriors are extremely
Speaker 1: limited in terms of personnel, and I also agree that
Speaker 1: made things harder for Steph, here's where it's different. Though.
Speaker 1: The twenty twenty one team was very limited as well.
Speaker 1: They had no Klay Thompson if you remember, they had
Speaker 1: funky role players guys like Kelly Hubray Junior and Brad
Speaker 1: Wanamaker and Kent Bazemore. And yet in that season Steph
Speaker 1: averaged thirty two points per game on sixty six percent
Speaker 1: true shooting. He had twenty six games with at least
Speaker 1: thirty five points. He wasn't even to that level this year,
Speaker 1: so like, if your case is Steph is still awesome,
Speaker 1: he just has a bad team. What happened in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, That's where I have an issue, and that
Speaker 1: team at the exact same issue made it to the
Speaker 1: play in got eliminated in the play in tournament. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, Like, I sympathize with Steph for the plight,
Speaker 1: and I do believe he still has the ability to
Speaker 1: get to a top ten level this year, which is
Speaker 1: why I put him in the top ten, and I
Speaker 1: expect him to bounce back. But he was down in
Speaker 1: every major statistical category last year and was tailing off
Speaker 1: at the tail end of the season. So again, I,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned Big Game Tomorrow night, give me Steph
Speaker 1: as the fourth best player in the league. But that's
Speaker 1: not the reality of this season. There's a great deal
Speaker 1: of risk involved with Steph being your foundational piece for
Speaker 1: this season. Therefore I had him at ten for the
Speaker 1: sake of the way this list works. I'm shocked Curry
Speaker 1: is this low. I understand why because he had a
Speaker 1: down year because he's old, But man, I might be
Speaker 1: biased as Warriors diehard, but I don't know how you
Speaker 1: could watch the metal rounds in the Olympics, and I
Speaker 1: feel like Steph is one of the five best players
Speaker 1: in the world. Here's the thing. The Metal rounds are
Speaker 1: a big source of optimism for me as well. But
Speaker 1: two games when the chips are down, that falls into
Speaker 1: what I was talking about earlier. Yeah, you're right, two
Speaker 1: games chips are down. I think Steph is the fourth
Speaker 1: best player in the world. But this isn't two games
Speaker 1: where the chips are down. This is eighty two games
Speaker 1: and four series spanning nine months. Totally different type of criteria.
Speaker 1: Here's another Steph one, a bunch of them. But we
Speaker 1: don't I promise we get into some other stuff. Hey, Jason,
Speaker 1: I have agreed for the most part so far in
Speaker 1: your rankings. However, Steph's ranking is the first time I
Speaker 1: strongly disagree with your ranking, and I'm a non Warriors fan.
Speaker 1: By the way, you begin your argument by referring to
Speaker 1: Steph's extended to end the regular season and through the
Speaker 1: majority of the Olympics, I think this is fair criticism. However,
Speaker 1: I would argue Tatum's slump is equally as bad, if
Speaker 1: not worse than Steph's, and therefore should be ranked lower
Speaker 1: than Steph. In the rankings. I believe the main factor
Speaker 1: in this argument is their scenarios. Steph was dealing with
Speaker 1: unideal situations in Golden State, unlike Draymond's excuse me. Steph
Speaker 1: was dealing with unideal situations in Golden State, like Draymond's
Speaker 1: emotional immaturity, Clay's frustrations, tons of lineup changes, roster injuries, etc. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Tatum was operating on the most talented roster in the league.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's fair to drop Steph this far
Speaker 1: below the environment he was working in. Besides that, Curry
Speaker 1: is still a much better half court shot maker than Tatum,
Speaker 1: which is your main factor when making this list, not
Speaker 1: just as an on ball creator, but through is off
Speaker 1: ball ability. The amount of quality shots he generates for
Speaker 1: his team simply by existing in the half court greatly
Speaker 1: exceeds anything that Tatum showed during the playoffs in the
Speaker 1: last half of the year. I'd also argue for Curry
Speaker 1: above Anton Ad for the same reason, although the Tatum
Speaker 1: comparison is my primary reason for commenting. Love the show.
Speaker 1: Thanks for supporting the show. I mean it means a
Speaker 1: lot to me. So a couple things Tatum sumps a
Speaker 1: little different. Tatum is a in his prime athlete who's
Speaker 1: in a jump shooting slump. Steph Curry declined in every
Speaker 1: single phase of the game last year, including the defensive
Speaker 1: end of the floor, including just his ability to get
Speaker 1: separation from defenders, all that kind of stuff, So it's
Speaker 1: not necessarily the same to me. I will I will
Speaker 1: admit that I ranked Tatum under the impression that his
Speaker 1: shot is going to come back around, because again, over
Speaker 1: a large sample in his career, he's been a good
Speaker 1: jump shooter. He's had a bad jump shooting stretch. I mean,
Speaker 1: we've had our criticism with Tatum in terms of off
Speaker 1: the dribble shooting, but he's he should still be a
Speaker 1: much much better catch and shoot player than he has been.
Speaker 1: He's just been in a slump. But again, it's a
Speaker 1: little different when you're Tatum's age, you're in your late twenties,
Speaker 1: in your prime. I would be shocked if Tatum didn't
Speaker 1: come into next season with a event jump shot ready
Speaker 1: to go. But like the bottom, let's just take Tatum
Speaker 1: for an example as what I mean when I talked
Speaker 1: about the value over the eighty two. Okay, Tate, Let's
Speaker 1: say I drafted Tatum because I had, you know, the
Speaker 1: pick that I have Tatum ranked at, which I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna reveal yet, but let's say I drafted Tatum. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get seventy five games out of him. Like he's
Speaker 1: gonna play seventy five games at least around there. You know,
Speaker 1: I think he played seventy four the last two years, right,
Speaker 1: So like gonna play mid seventies and games. He's gonna
Speaker 1: bring motor every single night because he's in his twenties
Speaker 1: and he's got he's just young, and you know, he
Speaker 1: just has a lot of that youthful exuberans. Right, He's
Speaker 1: gonna play hard. We're gonna get the better version of
Speaker 1: Tatum the vast majority of nights three. He's gonna be
Speaker 1: a foundational piece to my defense and rebounding backline. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be able to use him to guard star forwards
Speaker 1: if I need to. I'm gonna be able to use
Speaker 1: him to guard guards even if I need to. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be able to use him to guard centers if
Speaker 1: I want to, just like Boston did through their entire
Speaker 1: playoff runt, I can use him as the lowman if
Speaker 1: I need to I could count on him to help
Speaker 1: secure the defensive rebounding part of my defensive back line.
Speaker 1: That's a huge asset to me as I'm building a
Speaker 1: team around him. For he's going to give me somewhere
Speaker 1: between twenty seven and thirty points per game. That's basically guaranteed.
Speaker 1: He's going to give me eight or nine rebounds. That's
Speaker 1: basically guaranteed. He's going to give me five plus assists.
Speaker 1: It's a super safe bet. If I take Tatum, I
Speaker 1: know what I'm getting from October all the way to June.
Speaker 1: If I take Steph, there's two versions of that story.
Speaker 1: There's everything somehow breaks right and he gets back to
Speaker 1: form and he stays healthy, and I get superstar Stephan. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're You're damn right. That's a better player. Put it simply, guys,
Speaker 1: like basketball is a team sport. If I put Steph
Speaker 1: on the Boston Celtics for Jason Tatum, the Celtics are
Speaker 1: winning the title again. So like, yeah, I'm not debating
Speaker 1: that Tatum's had it easy. Of course he has. He's
Speaker 1: flat out had it easy at the easiest title run
Speaker 1: I've seen from a star in a very long time time. Right, So,
Speaker 1: like I'm not trying to debate that, but we're looking
Speaker 1: at these guys in a vacuum. If I was drafting
Speaker 1: players at Tatum's age, I know I'm getting seventy five games.
Speaker 1: I know I'm getting high motor, I'm getting excellent defense
Speaker 1: and rebounding, and I'm getting twenty seven and five at
Speaker 1: least in terms of points and assists. He is a
Speaker 1: super safe bet. And so in this list that has
Speaker 1: a very very tight grouping from five to eleven, I'm
Speaker 1: giving Tatum a slight edge for the eighty two. Now.
Speaker 1: To be clear, if I had to win a single
Speaker 1: game tomorrow or a single series tomorrow, give me Steph
Speaker 1: over Tatum one hundred out of one hundred times. I
Speaker 1: do not think Tatum is better at basketball than Steph.
Speaker 1: I just think he's younger and healthier and more likely
Speaker 1: to provide more winning impact over a nine month span
Speaker 1: or anything can happen. And I know I've explained that
Speaker 1: one hundred times during this list. I just feel like
Speaker 1: I need to hammer that home. The rankings are not important.
Speaker 1: Basketball talk is the only thing that matters. It's our
Speaker 1: next comment. Amen. We do this to kill time in
Speaker 1: the summer and to give us something to argue about.
Speaker 1: But in the words of Kevin Durant, when October comes around,
Speaker 1: it's check ball and we're playing basketball and everyone's zero
Speaker 1: and zero and every player's averaging zero point, zero rebound,
Speaker 1: zero sists. Let's see what everyone can do. If I
Speaker 1: have Steph at ten and I'm actively rooting for him
Speaker 1: to bounce back, that has no bearing on what actually
Speaker 1: is going to happen for the Warriors this year, and
Speaker 1: we're gonna cover it thoroughly, like this is what we
Speaker 1: do during the summer. But what I love to do.
Speaker 1: My favorite thing about this show is to talk about
Speaker 1: basketball games. It's why I was so thankful for those
Speaker 1: Team USA games this summer. Well, how great was that
Speaker 1: that we got another couple dozen games between TMUOSA and
Speaker 1: some of the other teams that we covered to just
Speaker 1: talk about basketball, actual basketball games that are actually happening.
Speaker 1: And so I appreciated that comment because that is the truth.
Speaker 1: The rankings are not important. The basketball talk, well, I
Speaker 1: would just remove talk from that, just say the basketball
Speaker 1: is the only thing that matters, and that's what I
Speaker 1: love to talk about the most, and that's what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do. Literally here in less than two months. Can
Speaker 1: you believe that we're less than two months away? We
Speaker 1: are one month away from training camp. Guys, it's right
Speaker 1: around the corner. Next question, or I should say comment.
Speaker 1: Y'all have to understand this is a business. Having Curry
Speaker 1: at ten is going to get him a lot of
Speaker 1: clicks and engagement. He knows Curry is top five at worst.
Speaker 1: This is just silly. I mean, the Warriors are probably
Speaker 1: still our largest fan base within the Hoops to Night community.
Speaker 1: We have some big ones, right Like we have a
Speaker 1: lot of Laker fans, a lot of Denver Nugget fans,
Speaker 1: a lot of Dallas Mavericks fans, a lot of Boston
Speaker 1: Celtics fans. We've built up like certain fan bases that
Speaker 1: we have a good chunk of that follow our show.
Speaker 1: But I still think the Warriors are the largest fan
Speaker 1: base that we have, and a big part of that
Speaker 1: is step Steph's one of the most popular players in
Speaker 1: the world. But like, I would have gotten more views
Speaker 1: by putting Steph number one. That's what would have gotten views.
Speaker 1: But it's legitimately hard for me to do this and
Speaker 1: to actually put these guys in the right spot and
Speaker 1: I'm working really hard to follow my own criteria. It
Speaker 1: was tough for me to put Kdi, Steph and Lebron
Speaker 1: as low as I did. But I'm not here to propagandaz.
Speaker 1: I'm not here to lie and say things I don't
Speaker 1: believe for clicks. That's not even how it works. I
Speaker 1: put Kde, Stephan, Lebron where I would draft them in
Speaker 1: a snake draft style or a snake draft doesn't even
Speaker 1: it's not even relevant. But just in a straight up
Speaker 1: draft between twenty five teams starting with all four hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty players, if I just to start a franchise with,
Speaker 1: that's the entire purpose of it. Only for this upcoming
Speaker 1: season from October to June. I put Steph at ten
Speaker 1: because I view him as the tenth safest bet to
Speaker 1: build a franchise around for this upcoming season. For eighty
Speaker 1: two games in four series, dude is saying I still
Speaker 1: think he's top ten, like that's a compliment. It is
Speaker 1: a compliment. Steph didn't play at a top ten level
Speaker 1: last year. Steph did not have a top ten season
Speaker 1: last year by any measure. Guys like Donovan Mitchell had
Speaker 1: a better season. Guys like Jalen Brunson had a better season,
Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of players had better seasons
Speaker 1: than Steph Curry last year. I'm giving him top ten
Speaker 1: as a payment of respect to what I believe he
Speaker 1: is capable of on a better roster and how and
Speaker 1: because I think he's going to bounce back. I'm projecting
Speaker 1: a better season from Steph next year. That's why I
Speaker 1: have him at number ten. He requires a ton of
Speaker 1: regular season support as well as postseason support. Who are
Speaker 1: you talking about Tatum or Embiid and you got Tatum higher?
Speaker 1: That's comedy. So in my opinion, Tatum is the far
Speaker 1: more available regular season player, and he's actually been a
Speaker 1: better playoff player than Embiid, including out playing him head
Speaker 1: to head. Specifically in Game seven a few years back,
Speaker 1: he exposed one of Embiid's biggest weaknesses that we talked
Speaker 1: about on this show, his ability to come out and
Speaker 1: guard in space, either switching in pick and roll or
Speaker 1: coming up to the level of the screen. Tatum was
Speaker 1: just repeatedly torching him in that Game seven. So putting
Speaker 1: Tatum over Embiid was a very easy decision for me.
Speaker 1: He's a more available regular season player and he's been
Speaker 1: a better postseason player in his career. That was just
Speaker 1: a no brainer for me. Here's another basketball case from
Speaker 1: somebody as it associates to Embiid, specifically with regard to
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis. Hey, Jason love the video. I know you
Speaker 1: haven't released AD's ranking, but here's a basketball reason why
Speaker 1: I'm taking Embiid over Anthony Davis. First, both players have
Speaker 1: struggled with injuries. I know Ad has been more durable
Speaker 1: than Embid the past two years, but it's undeniable that
Speaker 1: if you're concerned about that, you're concerned with both's long
Speaker 1: term health in any given season. So durability is mostly
Speaker 1: a wash between these two players. Second, I think Embiid's
Speaker 1: playoff struggles are almost exclusively due to injury, whereas AD's
Speaker 1: playoff struggles post twenty twenty have been consistency and mentality related.
Speaker 1: Against Yokich and the last couple of playoff runs, AD
Speaker 1: would have thirty plus points one night and then fifteen
Speaker 1: or sixteen the next night, even though he wasn't injured.
Speaker 1: Commentators often lament during games how Ad seems to be
Speaker 1: out of it and not being aggressive, which is never
Speaker 1: a problem for Embiid AD post twenty twenty has not
Speaker 1: been that great of a playoff performer in my view,
Speaker 1: at least not good enough for the Lakers to beat Denver. Finally,
Speaker 1: and most importantly, Embiid eats eighty's lunch every time they play. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's regular season, but Embid is seven and one against AD.
Speaker 1: In their last two matchups, Embiid had thirty eight and
Speaker 1: twelve and a thirty point triple double on seventy five
Speaker 1: percent and sixty percent shooting, respectively. Ady's best case for
Speaker 1: being higher than Embiid is he's a much better defender
Speaker 1: than Embiid. The fact that he that his superior defense
Speaker 1: doesn't infect it doesn't affect Embiid when they play, is
Speaker 1: evidence to me that Embiid is a full tier above
Speaker 1: eighty is a player. Appreciate the content and I'm looking
Speaker 1: forward to the rest of the rankings. Again, thank you
Speaker 1: for taking the time to break down your basketball case,
Speaker 1: and thank you for supporting the show. It means a
Speaker 1: lot to me. So, starting with the injury risk, I
Speaker 1: disagree there. I don't think it's a wash between both players.
Speaker 1: AD has had some health concerns, particularly in the twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one and twenty twenty two seasons, but he's been
Speaker 1: good since then, and I actually think it's far more
Speaker 1: likely that Embiid has a health related issue this year
Speaker 1: than Ad. Now, obviously anything happened, and we'll see, but
Speaker 1: my read on things is like Embiid is a guy
Speaker 1: that like it almost feels like a certainty that he'll
Speaker 1: break down, whereas Ad it feels like it's a maybe,
Speaker 1: And so I don't think that they're on the same tier.
Speaker 1: Although I agree with you that both of them do
Speaker 1: have some health concerns, I just think it's Embid to
Speaker 1: a larger extent. As I mentioned earlier, AD did have
Speaker 1: a rough series in twenty twenty three against Denver, There's
Speaker 1: no question about it, and I was very critical of
Speaker 1: him after that series, But he's been literally awesome in
Speaker 1: every playoff run outside of that. Even just before that series,
Speaker 1: like before the Denver series where they got swept, AD
Speaker 1: was like so good defensively in the Golden State Warrior
Speaker 1: series that every adjustment that both teams was making, it
Speaker 1: was geared around the Warriors trying to avoid Ad and
Speaker 1: the Lakers trying to keep Ad in the action. That's
Speaker 1: how dominant. He was defensively in that playoff run, the
Speaker 1: best player on the Kers because Lebron wasn't as good.
Speaker 1: He was playing with that hurt foot, if you remember,
Speaker 1: during that playoff run. So like he was awesome in
Speaker 1: the playoff run before the Warrior or before the Nuggets series.
Speaker 1: Then this past year, I thought he basically played Jokic
Speaker 1: to a draw. He averaged twenty eight points and sixteen rebounds,
Speaker 1: like straight up fried Nicole Jokicic one on one. Then
Speaker 1: again obviously hurt twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: but twenty twenty incredible both ends of the four they win
Speaker 1: the title. First thirteen playoff games before twenty twenty, he
Speaker 1: averaged thirty one and thirteen. So like, I think AD's
Speaker 1: playoff resume is substantially better than him. Beats just flat
Speaker 1: out bar none. I don't think it's close, to be honest,
Speaker 1: and to put it more aggressively, I just think Ad
Speaker 1: is a better basketball player in that setting because he's
Speaker 1: so good defensively, because he thrives in rock fights, because
Speaker 1: he can like win when things get ugly, because his
Speaker 1: impact on winning is not tied to whether or not
Speaker 1: he's getting to the foul line or knocking down his
Speaker 1: jump shot. Now here's the thing. Everything with em beat
Speaker 1: is theoretical. He has a roum remarkably dominant level that
Speaker 1: he can get to. He's certainly had remarkably dominant regular
Speaker 1: seasons that if eclipsed what Ad has done in the
Speaker 1: regular season. But like, we can keep imagining that all
Speaker 1: coming together all we want. We can imagine him be
Speaker 1: just wrecking ball everybody through the playoffs. Hell, I've been
Speaker 1: imagining it. We talked about it on the show, but
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, that has never actually materialized. And then
Speaker 1: the last piece of it to the big piece of
Speaker 1: our criteria that, like versatility, how easy it is to
Speaker 1: build around you, Ad is much easier to build around.
Speaker 1: He is a prototypical five out big man who excels
Speaker 1: as a roleman, as a screening and rolling into space
Speaker 1: as a scorer with and without the ball. He plays
Speaker 1: really well alongside other stars. He doesn't require the ball
Speaker 1: to be in his hands all the time, and he's
Speaker 1: the best defensive player in the world that can defend
Speaker 1: in any scheme that you want him to defend. In
Speaker 1: deep drop, you know, catch Hedge up at the level blitzing, switching,
Speaker 1: he can do it all. So like that's the thing,
Speaker 1: Like there's no doubt that embeads ceiling is higher than AD.
Speaker 1: That just goes without saying. But and B just can't
Speaker 1: get there often enough. And when things really like when
Speaker 1: things get to those higher levels, AD is just played
Speaker 1: at a much higher level, far more consistently than MB.
Speaker 1: And again like, yes, he has some offensive limitations, but
Speaker 1: in the regular season, even as I'm as I'm drafting players,
Speaker 1: if I draft a D, you know, much easier everything
Speaker 1: else gets from me at that point. Look at the
Speaker 1: Lakers defense. They were playing literally literally to like Austin
Speaker 1: Reeves an average defensive player, d Lo a bad defensive player,
Speaker 1: Ruey Hachimura a bad defensive player, Lebron James good DEFENSEI
Speaker 1: player when he's trying. Most of the time he's not trying,
Speaker 1: and AD anchors it all, just hides them all. That's
Speaker 1: a huge asset to a general manager. Yeah, so like yeah,
Speaker 1: the I again, I it's hard to do this kind
Speaker 1: of thing, guys, it really is. It's painstaking. I just say,
Speaker 1: let's say the two guys that everyone kept throwing out today,
Speaker 1: if I would have put ant at eleven in eighty
Speaker 1: at ten. You don't think Minnesota Timberwolves fans are gonna
Speaker 1: be crying to me NonStop about how Anthony Edwards averaged
Speaker 1: twenty eight points on sixty percent through shooting in the
Speaker 1: playoffs and like eliminated the defending champs straight up alpha
Speaker 1: dog to everybody on the Phoenix Suns and got within
Speaker 1: three wins of the NBA Finals. You don't think I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have people crying about that. Anthony Davis, like he was,
Speaker 1: what the fourth best player on the Olympic team, the
Speaker 1: fifth best player on the Olympic team. He is the
Speaker 1: best defensive player in the world. Just played Nikolea Jokic
Speaker 1: to pretty much even in that Like the differentiators in
Speaker 1: that series were like Michael Porter Junior and the fact
Speaker 1: that Ruey was terrible, Like they're like they're the swinge.
Speaker 1: Lebron and ad went. Lebron and eighty out played Murray
Speaker 1: and Jokic in that series, and they lost the series
Speaker 1: in five because Lebron out played Jamal Murray. Just Jamal
Speaker 1: Murray hit two big shots and Michael Porter Junior made
Speaker 1: everything he got his hands on, and Aaron Gordon had
Speaker 1: a at Game three, and the Lakers just got no
Speaker 1: contributions from role players outside of Austin Reeves and like
Speaker 1: and again, like, if I would have put a DA ten,
Speaker 1: it just would have been an issue. It has just
Speaker 1: been a whole other issue. And that's the thing. There
Speaker 1: was no version of this top eleven that wasn't going
Speaker 1: to piss people off. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: all I can do is kind of give you guys
Speaker 1: my reasoning and hear you guys out when you disagree,
Speaker 1: and we can go from there. But as I'm going
Speaker 1: to reread this comment from earlier, as the Gentleman shared earlier,
Speaker 1: the rankings are not important. Basketball is the only thing
Speaker 1: that matters, all right, guys. That is all I have
Speaker 1: for today is always sincerely appreciate you guys for supporting
Speaker 1: the show. We'll be back on Friday with number seven
Speaker 1: at number six. I will see you guys. Then the
Speaker 1: Volume the NFL seasons right around the corner. We'll be
Speaker 1: breaking down all the off season storylines on the Colin
Speaker 1: Cowherd podcast my best takes guests like my buddy Nick Wright.
Speaker 1: Check out the Colin Coward Podcast, part of the Volume network,
Speaker 1: available on Apple Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.