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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Zaren.

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Speaker 3: Yes, Elizabeth Zaren, How are you?

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I've been waiting for you.

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Speaker 3: You're feeling good, feeling strong.

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Speaker 2: Really I was late today, but feeling good. I am

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Speaker 2: feeling good. I'm feeling strong. What about you? You're feeling strong?

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Speaker 3: You know I feel good.

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Speaker 2: It's not strong. Maybe maybe get back in the gym

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Speaker 2: or doing push up body weight exercise.

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Speaker 3: It's true.

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Speaker 2: Are you talking more like emotionally emotional?

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Speaker 3: I think just across the board, I'm feeling that glay.

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Speaker 2: For glay real. Yeah, that's tough.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, you know, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad you asked John Gruden. Okay, you could

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Speaker 2: say you, I could just say period. But former the

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Speaker 2: former Raiders coach of You're not your Raiders, but the

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Speaker 2: Oakland now Vegas Raiders, Dave's producer D's Raiders good call,

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Speaker 2: and then also the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as well. Sure,

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Speaker 2: Now he wants to share the story about Peyton Manning

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Speaker 2: forty two Blue. Now, he was known to do a

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Speaker 2: call a lot of audibles at the line. Right, So

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Speaker 2: he's a quarterback, He's sitting there and he would call

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Speaker 2: an audiblely like oha, oh maha, right, oh right, but

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Speaker 2: he wouldn't only just say omaha when he called audibles.

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Speaker 2: According to John Gruden, who said this story, he would

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Speaker 2: often like do research on the opposing players and he'd

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Speaker 2: find out like their wives' names, their girlfriend's names, like whatever.

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Speaker 2: Would we would work to get in their heads. And

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Speaker 2: so he get up there and be like, Gwendolyn, Gwendolyn.

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Speaker 2: Someone's like, what the about my wife?

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Speaker 3: Cold blooded? And I love it.

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Speaker 2: I thought you would someone be like, hey, man, that's

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Speaker 2: my wife. Brother. So people get real mad and like

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Speaker 2: and Peyton would just kind of wink and then hike

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Speaker 2: the ball. So there. I thought that was kind of ridiculous,

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Speaker 2: psychological war.

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Speaker 3: He's too blues, right, Yeah, I love that, and I

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Speaker 3: think he should have just like done like street addresses children.

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Speaker 3: Yeah that was good. But do you want to know

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Speaker 3: what else is ridiculous? Hiding behind dolls? I don't know.

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Speaker 3: This is Ridiculous Crime, a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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Speaker 3: Heis and cons it's always ninety nine percent murder free

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Speaker 3: and one hundred percent ridiculous. Damn right, you know that.

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Speaker 2: I love puzzles yeah, yeah, you definitely you do. I

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Speaker 2: love codes, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Big on cryptograms. There's one in the San Francisco Chronicle

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Speaker 3: called crypto Quip that I always used to play.

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Speaker 2: Huh.

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Speaker 3: It was like for a while that was the only

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Speaker 3: reason I still had my subscription. But I like puzzles

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Speaker 3: like that, like basically all of the New York Times games. Yes,

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Speaker 3: they relax me.

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Speaker 2: I've seen you play those in the.

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Speaker 3: HV challenge me. And they also helped me fight the

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Speaker 3: crazy brain fog that I've developed.

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Speaker 2: I do that for Jeopardy to keep then to keep sharp. Baby.

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Speaker 3: I may not be able to remember the word that

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Speaker 3: I want to use during the day, but every morning

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Speaker 3: as I lie in bed, I am sharp as a

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Speaker 3: tex at wordle connections, strands, pips and spelling bee.

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Speaker 2: Well, you do a bunch.

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Speaker 3: I have to play them in that order.

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Speaker 2: Wow, you have to play them.

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Speaker 3: I have to anyway. Codes. So there's a British TV show,

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Speaker 3: Bletchley Circle that I highly recommend. It's about the World

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Speaker 3: War Two code breakers working the Enigma machine, break the Nazi. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and a bunch of gals, lady code breakers. This lady

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Speaker 3: host likes lady code breakers. I will never get over

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Speaker 3: being called the lady host, which has happened twice.

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Speaker 2: Now I've never been called the gentleman host. So I

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Speaker 2: can see what instances.

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Speaker 3: I think they were both reviews, they give your name

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Speaker 3: Zarin and the lady host.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, I didn't even notice that.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I have a name and it's Vagina corn Tower. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: respect name anyway. Codes. So this is what I planned

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Speaker 3: to babble at you about to name please, a woman

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Speaker 3: who used codes and a woman who broke them, and

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Speaker 3: how they intersect.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I can see that. That's like a unity of opposites. Right,

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to.

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Speaker 3: Start with this woman named velv Le Malvina Dickinson. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to need to hear that again, so I gotta

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Speaker 3: say it again. Velv Lee. Huh, Malvina Dickinson.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing.

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Speaker 3: What a name. Velvelee put her foot. She was born

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Speaker 3: Velvally Bleacher Wow in Sacramento, California. Oh wow, us a

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Speaker 3: sacrament A kid in eighteen ninety three. It was a

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Speaker 3: great time for Sacramento. I actually love that place. I

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Speaker 3: love Sacramento.

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Speaker 2: That is true. That's right.

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Speaker 3: Velveley, bright woman, super smart. Her parents sent her off

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Speaker 3: to a girl's prep school in Oakland called Snell Seminary.

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Speaker 2: Went to Oakland too, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: Like it's basically me, I know, but not Okay. So

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Speaker 3: this place, Snell Seminary was known as like one of

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Speaker 3: the best, most fasttionable schools for girls on the West Coast.

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Speaker 3: And from there she went to Stanford and she walked

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Speaker 3: in graduation in nineteen eighteen, but she didn't get her

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Speaker 3: degree because she hadn't returned a bunch of library books.

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Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of them were like.

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Speaker 3: These Russian books. They're all these kind of strange like.

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Speaker 2: Obscure they only had one copy of It wasn't.

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Speaker 3: Until nineteen thirty seven that she was able to get

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Speaker 3: it all settled out and get her official like degree

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Speaker 3: in diploma.

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Speaker 2: Damn. Yeah, so like nineteen years it took before. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so she got the right to vote and then had

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Speaker 2: to wait another decade and a half back.

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Speaker 3: She's like whatever. So a fun fact. Her younger brother

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Speaker 3: also went to Stanford, just two years behind her, and

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Speaker 3: then from there he went to Harvard Law. And I

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Speaker 3: was thinking that she must have come from like a

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Speaker 3: posh Sacramento family either like agriculture mining, But I found

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Speaker 3: her dad's obituary and it seems he worked at the

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Speaker 3: rail yard his whole life.

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Speaker 2: Hum so kind of like one of those I saved up.

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Speaker 3: Have scrimped and saved and like sent his kids off

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Speaker 3: to super nice places. Always want the next generation to

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Speaker 3: do better. Yeah, don't want to hog the resources. So

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Speaker 3: from Stanford Velveley, she got a gig in a bank

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Speaker 3: and then she got a job at the California Fruit

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Speaker 3: Growers Association.

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Speaker 2: Actually a very powerful association, very big, very.

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Speaker 3: She was a bookkeeper there, was so good at her job,

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Speaker 3: very personable. And then she got another job at a

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Speaker 3: produce brokerage firm and she worked there from nineteen twenty

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Speaker 3: eight ten nineteen thirty five. So while she was there,

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Speaker 3: she handled a lot of the Japanese accounts and she

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Speaker 3: got to know the Japanese community in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Oh, very cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So California has always had a strong trading and

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Speaker 3: cultural partner in Japan, particularly in the Bay Area. There

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Speaker 3: were a lot of farms, vineyards, and orchards owned by

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Speaker 3: Japanese families in the Central Valley.

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Speaker 2: Ice farming too. They loved it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And when Executive Ordered ninety sixty six was signed,

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Speaker 3: sending anyone on the West coast of Japanese descent citizen

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Speaker 3: or not to live in internment camps in the desert.

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Speaker 3: Most of these.

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Speaker 2: Farms went dark, oh that's right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And most were sized by the government for delinquent taxes,

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Speaker 3: or they got taken over by squatters or just destroyed.

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Speaker 2: Not all though.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I really have to recommend and urge you read

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Speaker 3: the Smithsonian magazine article called During World War Two, this

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Speaker 3: farmer risked everything to help as Japanese American neighbors. It's

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Speaker 3: a long title by Jake Whitney, Like, honestly, I want

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Speaker 3: everyone to read this article. It's about a man named

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Speaker 3: Bob Fletcher, who was a UC Davis alum. Look at this,

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Speaker 3: and I promise you'll get emotional reading it. It lays

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Speaker 3: out what that time was like for farming families, and

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Speaker 3: it's important to know what happened, and it's a good

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Speaker 3: reminder of what happens when people decide to do the

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Speaker 3: right thing, even if it's not the easy thing. Yes,

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Speaker 3: saying that, yes, so I want to believe that Valvelee

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Speaker 3: at least had that opportunity to do the right thing.

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Speaker 3: But I can tell you she did not take it

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Speaker 3: if it was indeed on offer. So she's dealing with

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Speaker 3: all of these kind of families, these farming famis, families

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Speaker 3: and you know, the buyers and people in Japan. So

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Speaker 3: the produce brokerage business where she worked was owned by

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Speaker 3: this guy, Lee Dickinson, and he would soon become her

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Speaker 3: third husband. Yeah, she'd already had two goes, right, Finicky. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And so because of all their Japanese clients, Velvelee and

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Speaker 3: her husband were really active in the Japan America Society

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Speaker 3: in San Francisco. So she joined the japan American Society

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Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty one and she was a member until

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Speaker 3: nineteen thirty five when she couldn't afford the.

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Speaker 2: Duke right, right, because she changes jobs. Correct.

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Speaker 3: So luckily she had friends at the Japanese Consulate in

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Speaker 3: San Francisco, and an attache at the consulate paid her

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Speaker 3: dues from nineteen thirty six onward. Yeah, So she went

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Speaker 3: to a lot of parties at the consulate and it

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Speaker 3: was there that she would like rub shoulders with Japanese

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Speaker 3: diplomats and high level government officials, members of the Japanese Navy.

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Speaker 3: And then she in turned through parties at her house

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Speaker 3: and invited the consulate crowd over and then it all

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Speaker 3: came to a stop. Lee Dickinson produced brokerage company went

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Speaker 3: under in nineteen thirty seven. So the couple picked up

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Speaker 3: stakes and moved to New York City, Okay, and Velvelet

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Speaker 3: got a job as a sales clerk in Bloomingdale's doll department.

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Speaker 3: And this would prove to be a very pivotal moment.

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Speaker 2: For her going into the doll business.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she's got a friend in the doll business. Costume

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Speaker 3: dolls were a big deal then, all right, it was

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Speaker 3: all the rage. It was the la boo boos.

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Speaker 2: You can be costume. You mean those dolls are like

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Speaker 2: the fancy dolls were that you put on the outfit,

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Speaker 2: put them on like a shell.

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Speaker 3: Yes, like yeah, And so there were like porcelain dolls

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Speaker 3: with little fine outfits and you could change their clothes,

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Speaker 3: but in a discrete manner.

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Speaker 2: I think as haunted dolls very much.

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Speaker 3: So. So there were local clubs and like specialty dealers,

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Speaker 3: and then all these avid hobbyists to just collect.

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Speaker 2: And also the doll making, the dressmakers for the dolls

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Speaker 2: right over.

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Speaker 3: And in that circle you could count Velvelet among this group.

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Speaker 3: She is up in there.

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Speaker 2: So with the name like Velvely Malvina, I mean, how

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Speaker 2: you get into doll making.

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Speaker 3: She got bigger in the doll scene, and she eventually

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Speaker 3: opened her own doll shop right across the street from

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Speaker 3: her house. Okay, and she got mentioned in the New

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Speaker 3: York Times. She displayed her dolls at antique shows. She

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Speaker 3: built up this customer base through word of mouth. She

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Speaker 3: put ads in magazines like House and Garden, and then

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Speaker 3: she had all this written correspondence, like she and all

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Speaker 3: these doll folks would write to each other.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: So the December nineteen thirty nine Vogue issue put one

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Speaker 3: of her dolls in their buying guide quote, in the

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Speaker 3: doll collection of Velveley Dickinson, there are two wonderfully aromatic

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Speaker 3: kinds of dolls. One species is made of cedar wood,

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Speaker 3: cleverly carved and jointed by Tennessee mountaineers. You can have

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Speaker 3: man or woman, But for once we liked the woman best.

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Speaker 3: Don't report us to the New Yorker if we say

221
00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,240
Speaker 3: that the woman looks chic in her black and white

222
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,160
Speaker 3: Gingham costume. She does around.

223
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 2: Six dollars each doll. WI.

224
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 3: I love that they call them. Species is made of

225
00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:08,199
Speaker 3: cedar wood species of.

226
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Speaker 2: Doll, and normally we like the male dolls better than

227
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,480
Speaker 2: the female dolls. I did not see that.

228
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 3: I had no idea.

229
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,079
Speaker 2: I thought only like manic, like you know, like Charlie

230
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 2: McCarthy's style. Like no, apparently like Ventri.

231
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 3: An aromatic doll.

232
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, one that has got a good little aroma to it.

233
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 3: So yeah. One of one of her best customers was

234
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,199
Speaker 3: a young Eunice Kennedy, whoa yeah JFK's sister.

235
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Speaker 2: Yeah.

236
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,280
Speaker 3: Someone gave her a Dominican nun doll from Velveley's shop

237
00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:37,320
Speaker 3: as a gift, and she was like hooked. She's like,

238
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:38,360
Speaker 3: I need more dolls.

239
00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 2: That's a hell of a sentence, a Dominican nun doll

240
00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:41,559
Speaker 2: from Velvete.

241
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,000
Speaker 3: I know, It's like have you had a stroke. So

242
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 3: in New York, Velvely she hooked back up with the

243
00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:49,760
Speaker 3: Japanese community there.

244
00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:50,719
Speaker 2: Okay, So she.

245
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,240
Speaker 3: Went to the Niphon Club and the japan Institute. She

246
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,160
Speaker 3: buttied up to the Japanese Console General. She met with

247
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,960
Speaker 3: Ichiro Yoka Yama, who was Thepanese naval attache from Washington,

248
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 3: d C. Okay, that's all a little weird. But maybe

249
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,960
Speaker 3: that's just me. She likes the culture she does, and

250
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,640
Speaker 3: she lived large. She wore gorgeous clothes and was like

251
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,440
Speaker 3: this total audio file. She bought records like crazy, and

252
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,840
Speaker 3: if she she would whatever it came out, she wanted it,

253
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 3: and she'd send the maid down to get it, and

254
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 3: then the maid, if she listened to it didn't like it,

255
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,440
Speaker 3: she'd make the maid return it. She's like, please, don't

256
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 3: keep sending me back there to return these.

257
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you sent me back yesterday with the new Jack T.

258
00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,080
Speaker 2: Guarden and now they're like mad at me.

259
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 3: She also went back and forth to California a lot.

260
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,160
Speaker 3: Was the doll business that profitable.

261
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm kind of like projecting from now back then,

262
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: and I just don't know if it's all pops.

263
00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 3: But she also she appeared to be getting cash on

264
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,160
Speaker 3: the side. Ah so according to Smithsonian Magazine, this article

265
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,360
Speaker 3: by David Sears quote a November twenty sixth, nineteen forty

266
00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,400
Speaker 3: one visit to seven eighteen Madison by quote, well dressed

267
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 3: Japanese may have held the key to Velvil. These suspect prosperity,

268
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 3: as recounted in a nineteen forty four edition of Saint

269
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 3: Louis Sunday morning, the Japanese visitor quote darted through the

270
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,840
Speaker 3: door and handed a small compact bundle to the proprietor.

271
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,480
Speaker 3: I may not be able to come again, he said.

272
00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 3: The proprietor replied that they might meet again, perhaps in Honolulu. No, no,

273
00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 3: the Japanese exclaimed, not Honolulu.

274
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,199
Speaker 2: Yikes to know what's going on? Oh yikes.

275
00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,840
Speaker 3: So then came the letters. So between January and June

276
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,960
Speaker 3: of nineteen forty two, a series of suspicious letters were

277
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,160
Speaker 3: sent to Argentina.

278
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 2: So January forty two, so after December forty one is okay, recent,

279
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,800
Speaker 2: but don't go to Honolulu whatever you do.

280
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,640
Speaker 3: So these letters to Argentina, they caught the eye of

281
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,040
Speaker 3: the US government, and you know, they were concerned about

282
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:57,000
Speaker 3: Argentina's like dabbling in fascism.

283
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,360
Speaker 2: Connections to the fascist Europeans.

284
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 3: Correct. So the letters they were all addressed to Signor

285
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:06,120
Speaker 3: Inez Lopez di Molinali in Buenos Aires, and one was

286
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,600
Speaker 3: sent from Seattle, another from San Francisco, New York, Portland, Oregon,

287
00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 3: and then another from Oakland, California. None of them made

288
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,040
Speaker 3: it to Signora Inez Lopez de Molinali returned to send

289
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,720
Speaker 3: her on each one. Oh yeah. And the women who

290
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,840
Speaker 3: sent the letters, well, when they were interviewed by the FBI,

291
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 3: they swore they hadn't sent them and had no idea

292
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,080
Speaker 3: who Signora Inez Lopez de Molinali was or what the

293
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 3: letters could be about. They the FBI found out because

294
00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,320
Speaker 3: these women were getting these letters returned to them. They

295
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,600
Speaker 3: all said they'd open them up and their signatures were

296
00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 3: on the letters.

297
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 2: The women who send the letter, I didn't.

298
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,560
Speaker 3: Send this, but I assigned it. They said the signatures

299
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 3: on the letters looked like theirs, and that the letters

300
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,280
Speaker 3: contained correct information about their personal lives that would be freaking,

301
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,960
Speaker 3: and their interest in dolls, so the.

302
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 2: Letters less freaky.

303
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 3: The letter from Portland talked about a quote wonderful doll hospital.

304
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,640
Speaker 2: The doll hospital dolls, and.

305
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,960
Speaker 3: Said the writer had left her three quote old English

306
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 3: dolls for repairs. The letter also talked about fishnets and balloons.

307
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 3: The letter sent from New York was supposed to be

308
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 3: penned by a woman from Springfield, Illinois, talked about dolls

309
00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:29,880
Speaker 3: and had the words destroyed your like your in all caps,

310
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,680
Speaker 3: and further in the same sentence, talked about a mister

311
00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 3: Shaw who was sick but would be back to work soon.

312
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,000
Speaker 3: And then the letter also talked about her sick nephew

313
00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,120
Speaker 3: with a quote malignant tumor on the brain. And the

314
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 3: supposed writer did have a nephew with a mortal brain issue. Really,

315
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,480
Speaker 3: but she wasn't even in New York when the letter

316
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 3: was mailed, so she turned it over to local postal authorities,

317
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,440
Speaker 3: who then passed it on to the FBI. And in turn,

318
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:57,880
Speaker 3: each of these women did the same thing. They get

319
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 3: this letter, They're like, oh, what is this? Postal authorities? FBI.

320
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,000
Speaker 3: In another letter, the writer said that she was sending

321
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 3: a doll in a quote hula skirt to a doll

322
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 3: hospital in Seattle. Let me read you the letter, My

323
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 3: most gracious friend, please forgive my delay in writing to

324
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 3: thank you for your kindness in sending my family the

325
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,120
Speaker 3: beautiful Christmas gifts. The girls were especially pleased. I have

326
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,560
Speaker 3: been so very busy these days. This is the first

327
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,640
Speaker 3: time I've been over to Seattle for weeks. I came

328
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,240
Speaker 3: over today to meet my son who's here from Portland

329
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 3: on business, and to get my little granddaughter's doll repaired.

330
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,920
Speaker 3: I must tell you this amusing story. The wife of

331
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 3: an important business associate gave her an old German bisk

332
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,520
Speaker 3: doll dressed in a hula grass skirt. It is a

333
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,680
Speaker 3: cheap hoard thing. I do not like it, and I

334
00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 3: wish we did not have to have it about well.

335
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 3: I broke this awful doll last month. Now the person

336
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,040
Speaker 3: who gave the doll is coming to visit us very soon.

337
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 3: I walked all over Seattle to get someone to repair it.

338
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 3: No one at home could or would try the task.

339
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 3: Now I expect all the damages to be repaired by

340
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,000
Speaker 3: the first week in February. In the meanwhile, I hope

341
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,520
Speaker 3: and pray the important gentleman's wife will not come to

342
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,399
Speaker 3: visit us until after that date. I do hope you

343
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 3: can read my typing. I'm trying to learn so I

344
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 3: can be able to type records for the Red Cross.

345
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 3: Please accept love and remembrances.

346
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 2: I got to disagree. I don't find that a very

347
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:26,720
Speaker 2: amusing story.

348
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 3: No, not realist and so like the Oakland Letter, which

349
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,440
Speaker 3: was purportedly penned by a lady from Colorado Springs, Oh

350
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 3: talked about seven small dolls that she was going to

351
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 3: try to make look as if they were quote seven

352
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:46,120
Speaker 3: real Chinese dolls. Making up a family consisting of a father, grandmother, grandfather, mother,

353
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 3: and three kids. This was big to the FBI because

354
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:52,880
Speaker 3: several warships had come into San Francisco Bay for repairs

355
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,000
Speaker 3: just before the letter was written and mailed. So the

356
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,720
Speaker 3: supposed author of that letter not only gave the letter

357
00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,840
Speaker 3: to the FBI, she also pointed them in the direction

358
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:03,200
Speaker 3: of Velvelee Dickinson.

359
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,120
Speaker 2: Really, she thought about it and.

360
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,119
Speaker 3: She realized, you know, Velvelee probably used my information to

361
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 3: get back at me because the woman had purchased dolls

362
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 3: from Valvealle but couldn't pay for them right away. Uh huh,

363
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 3: I mean you shouldn't be buying dolls in to the side.

364
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 2: I mean it's like not live within your dollmians.

365
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,960
Speaker 3: Right anyway, So then the FBI asked the other women

366
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,879
Speaker 3: who got the return letters, did you know Velvelee do

367
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 3: you think you know she could be the one behind them?

368
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,400
Speaker 3: And they all were like, yeah, we she has documents

369
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 3: with my signatures on them, and we've all written letters

370
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,399
Speaker 3: back and forth about dolls, but also like chatted about

371
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,200
Speaker 3: you know, idle chit chat about our lives. The doll

372
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,240
Speaker 3: correspond and at least two of them had mixed it

373
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 3: up with Velveley about prices or payments for dolls. So

374
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,359
Speaker 3: now the FBI they set their sights on valve Lee.

375
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 3: Let's stop here for a bit. I have to go

376
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 3: brush the hair of all the members of my creepy

377
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 3: doll collection. I have them arranged on the day bed

378
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 3: in the guest bedroom, their sleepy eyes and rosy cheeks

379
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 3: staring out at me in dusty contempt.

380
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:03,880
Speaker 2: I just want to know where you got all those

381
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 2: deaf leopard dolls.

382
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 3: It's very rare in Velvely's estate.

383
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 2: Zaren Yo, Elizabeth. Hi, I'm sorry. I'm still thinking about

384
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,520
Speaker 2: that one armed deaf leopard drummer doll that you have.

385
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 2: It's it's incredible.

386
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 3: It's a keepsake. Yeah, I ordered it on late night TV.

387
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 3: It's beautiful thing.

388
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:41,760
Speaker 2: Velvely, Velvely.

389
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,520
Speaker 3: It was hard not to type Velveta as I was

390
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 3: putting together this outline. Anyway, The FBI, by.

391
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 2: The way, like names like that. I mean the poetry

392
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,720
Speaker 2: that named Velvelee and then Malvina.

393
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,399
Speaker 3: Also, I mean, I know some really beautiful old names

394
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 3: like that. They just fallout. I mean, Velvely, is it

395
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 3: it's interesting?

396
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 4: I like it?

397
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, double v's Yeah, you don't exactly. It has like

398
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 2: a poetry to it.

399
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: Now, is in like one hundred years time, are people

400
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 3: going to go back and be like, you know, Brakenzie mckayley,

401
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,199
Speaker 3: the L, E, I, G. H on everything? Or they

402
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,360
Speaker 3: it was so beautiful, why don't maybe use that?

403
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: Who knows? Because they're all named like Deltron three thousand.

404
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a circle of life.

405
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:30,040
Speaker 2: Sorry, apologies, Okay.

406
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 3: FBI people were pointing to Velvelee when it came to

407
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 3: the letters, so the FBI turned to its lab for confirmation.

408
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,359
Speaker 3: So the lab looked at all five letters and they

409
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 3: confirmed that the signatures on the letters were fake. They

410
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,960
Speaker 3: were good forgeries, but forgeries nonetheless. And then the experts

411
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 3: determined that they were prepared from original signatures in the

412
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,919
Speaker 3: possession of the forger. And then they also determined that

413
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: the typewriter for each letter was different. However, they figured

414
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,680
Speaker 3: that it was the same person typing each letter based

415
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,360
Speaker 3: on the typing characteristics.

416
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 2: How can they sense, Well, I'm guessing that.

417
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 3: It's something like if the ease are struck especially hard

418
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 3: or like facing you know, that would be my guess.

419
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: I know. How you can pick which typewriter is because

420
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 2: of the position of the letters, and like you know,

421
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: they the way typewriters work, the letters are not in

422
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 2: the hitting the same spot or the same depth into

423
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 2: the paper.

424
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,400
Speaker 3: Do you do, like maybe they do a reverse indent

425
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,400
Speaker 3: and that's kind of odd and exactly yeah, those little

426
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 3: kind of things.

427
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:28,159
Speaker 2: But I mean, I was wondering how they would know

428
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,439
Speaker 2: it's the same type ist. That's bizarre, I know.

429
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,600
Speaker 3: So I think that's what I'm saying. I think if

430
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: you hit certain keys really hard, sure that it's going

431
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,400
Speaker 3: to always bleed through.

432
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 2: Like like when you play piano, some people play the

433
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,360
Speaker 2: same notes louder and you go.

434
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: Oh, I know, yeah, yeah, exactly heavy handed, Bob. Also,

435
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 3: they had to decode these letters. I mean, they weren't Cipher's,

436
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 3: but the language is in code. So enter Elizabeth Smith Friedman.

437
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 2: Okay, Elizabeth Smith Free.

438
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 3: She spells her name E L I Z E eh special,

439
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 3: so Elizabeth Smith Friedman. She is one of the most

440
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 3: important yet long overlooked figures in American intelligence history.

441
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 2: Now just out of curiosity, the last name Friedman is

442
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 2: often a black American's name.

443
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,959
Speaker 3: Is she r Ied? Okay, yeah, not Freed.

444
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: I was just very really surprised if.

445
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's why we've never heard of her. Yeah, Friedman

446
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 3: Fried Okay. So she was born in eighteen ninety two

447
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 3: and Huntington, Indiana, and she was the youngest of nine

448
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 3: children in a Quaker family and her dad was a farmer,

449
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 3: strict disciplinarian. Her mom was a school teacher who just

450
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,200
Speaker 3: really like imbued in all the kids this love of

451
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,640
Speaker 3: learning and you've got to just pursue as much education

452
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 3: as possible respect to that. Yeah, So she went to

453
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 3: Hillsdale College in Michigan. She graduated in nineteen fifteen. She

454
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 3: had a major in English literature, but she also had

455
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: this strong background in languages and classical studies, and she

456
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 3: was fascinated by language structure and patterns, especially those in

457
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,000
Speaker 3: the works of Shakespeare. And so in nineteen sixteen, a

458
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 3: year after graduating, she visited Chicago and it was there

459
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 3: that she met George Fabian And he was the super

460
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 3: rich textile magnet and like crazy eccentric, and he rolled

461
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: around in this limo. He spent money like it was nothing.

462
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 3: He also he ran this private research facility called Riverbank Laboratories,

463
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 3: and that was located in Geneva, Illinois, and he was

464
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: fascinated with the theory that Francis Bacon had secretly authored

465
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 3: all of Shakespeare's plays.

466
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: Oh right, yes.

467
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 3: And so he has all this money. That's his big hobby,

468
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:51,400
Speaker 3: this interest. So he starts in institute, the Riverbank Laboratories Energy, right,

469
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: and so he chats with Elizabeth and he offered her

470
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: a job on the spot to assist in finding hidden

471
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: ciphers in Shakespearean texts that might claim.

472
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 2: That's so much fun.

473
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 3: And she's like, yeah, I'll take it, Like what a

474
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 3: job off her from their Yeah, and it's everything she loves.

475
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 3: So at Riverbank she met William F. Friedman, a geneticist

476
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: who was also working for Fabian. The two collaborated on

477
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: code breaking techniques and then they also fell in love.

478
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 3: Oh and they got married in nineteen seventeen. So this

479
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 3: whole Shakespeare Bacon thing was total pseudoscience, obviously, But in

480
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 3: the course of establishing Riverbank, it became the first American

481
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: facility dedicated to cryptoanalysis. Really yeah, So during World War

482
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 3: One it was one of the few places in the

483
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 3: US that was equipped to handle military code breaking for

484
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: the government.

485
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: That's so crazy. And it goes from Sir Francis Bacon

486
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: Shakespeare to like for the war exactly now.

487
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 3: Both Elizabeth and William they trained military officers and they

488
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: broke enemy codes on behalf of the Army Signal Corps

489
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: during World War One, the Freedman's Together, they worked to

490
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: decipher coded messages between German ages and their American contacts,

491
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: and they demonstrated that code breaking could be this like

492
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:09,920
Speaker 3: rigorous scientific discipline, not just like guesswork and intuition. They

493
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:15,919
Speaker 3: developed early methods for of frequency analysis, statistical approaches to

494
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: like substitution ciphers, and then they laid the groundwork basically

495
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 3: for modern cryptology. These two, their reports became foundational materials

496
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: for all of like the crypto.

497
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: Units to come, okay, okay.

498
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 3: In the twenties, Elizabeth started working independently from her husband.

499
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 3: She joined the US Coast Guard, and that was to

500
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: combat rum running and smuggling during Prohibition the US codes

501
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: too oh yeah, so yeah, and when it began, well

502
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,960
Speaker 3: goes even further than that. Prohibition starts in nineteen twenty

503
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 3: under the Volstead Act, bootlegging and maritime smuggling surged across

504
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 3: the US coastlines. As we've discussed here before, so the

505
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 3: Coast Guard suddenly found itself responsible for intercepting thouands of

506
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 3: these liquor laden ships, but also radio communications to coordinate

507
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 3: movements and evade capsule.

508
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: Current meeting off in the over to unload their cargo

509
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 2: in the open ocean.

510
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: Correct and the agency had no code breakers. So in

511
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 3: nineteen twenty five, Elizabeth was asked to examine intercepted radio

512
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: messages that were suspected of containing criminal codes, and she

513
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: quickly recognized, okay, these are just complex substitution and transposition ciphers,

514
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: well beyond the skills of most law enforcement agents, but

515
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 3: for her it's cakewalk. So she was soon formally hired

516
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 3: as a special cryptanalyst for the US Coast Guard, and

517
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 3: her team received hundreds of intercepted radio logs every single week,

518
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 3: and so they worked. They sat there with like like

519
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: doing everything by hand, pencil paper, sitting by lamplight. She

520
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 3: decrypted over twelve thousand messages in less than a decade,

521
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 3: just constant churning them out, and her analysis exposed like

522
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 3: this huge, huge international structure of all these smuggling cartels,

523
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 3: and then also brought in like the use of shell companies,

524
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: false manifest coded invoices, so she was able to crack

525
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: codes beyond just like meet me at this coordinate at

526
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: this time, it was like further communications about who was

527
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 3: higher up and.

528
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: The Capone's bookkeeper style.

529
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she discovered that criminal groups oftentimes reused encryption

530
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: keys or followed like these predictable linguistic habits, and that's

531
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 3: how she got her entry point for decryption. She did

532
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 3: wind up. She worked on Capone stuff.

533
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very famous example of like a coded

534
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 2: record keeping, coded communication. Right. He was very smart and cunning,

535
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: so it was like probably be a bit fun challenge

536
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: for something like her was.

537
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 3: She was on it. There was the I'm Alone case

538
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty one. This was a Canadian vessel accused

539
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 3: of running alcohol and it got sunk by the coastguard

540
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:54,680
Speaker 3: in the Gulf of Mexico.

541
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I was thinking the other way, be like

542
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 2: by Detroit. Yeah.

543
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 3: No, her cryptanalysis proved the ships Canadian registry was fraudulent

544
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,679
Speaker 3: and that it was operating under American ownership, and so

545
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 3: that saved us from like crazy diplomatic backlashure. She also

546
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 3: helped dismantle smuggling rings link to like I said, organized

547
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 3: crime families, Chicago, New York. Her messages connected radio operators

548
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: directly to the financial backers in all of these cases,

549
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 3: so prohibition gets repealed. She continues doing work for the

550
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 3: Treasury Department and the Customs Service. She tracked narcotic smuggling,

551
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 3: currency fraud, illegal immigration networks. She had this little small

552
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 3: office still at the Coastguard, but it became the center

553
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: of what would evolve into permanent cryptanalytic branch within US

554
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 3: law enforcement. All comes out of the Coastguard. So by

555
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: the early thirties, she had testified as an expert in

556
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: all these federal trials against smugglers. Anytime they brought her in,

557
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 3: her testimony was so decisive that defense attorneys sometimes would

558
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: find out she was going to testify and like be like,

559
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: you got.

560
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: To plead out take the deal.

561
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't if we go to court like your TOAs

562
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: you're going.

563
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: To get embarrassed.

564
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

565
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: The headlines alone, Yeah.

566
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 3: And she was known for how smart brilliant she was.

567
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 3: She was yet so modest. Yeah, and she had this

568
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 3: like crazy deep respect from law enforcement. But and no

569
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: one in the public knew who she was.

570
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: And she ironic because she's really good at unmasking.

571
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: People, right, you know, yeah, and so, And the thing

572
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: is is a lot of people didn't know because her

573
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: work was classified. So it's like you can't talk about.

574
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: It, of course. And also it's probably for her like

575
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: her you know, her life interest if people don't know

576
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 2: who she is, because then these mobsters can't just go

577
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: and find here.

578
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: And I don't know how long it extends out, because

579
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 3: I know, like in the UK with all the Bletchley folks,

580
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 3: it was decades later that they couldn't even say where

581
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 3: they worked.

582
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: She was like to the seventies.

583
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they couldn't discuss it, and so you know, you

584
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 3: couldn't even say that you worked there. You just had

585
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,239
Speaker 3: to be vague or whatever or have a cover. So

586
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 3: when World War Two broke out in Europe, the US

587
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 3: Coast Guard was transferred to Navy authority and Elizabeth she

588
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 3: started receiving intercepted message from the Office of Naval Intelligence

589
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 3: ONI and the FBI concerning espionage in the Western Hemisphere.

590
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 3: That's where she got assigned. So the Germany's military intelligence

591
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 3: and State Telegraph Service were using encrypted short of radio

592
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: to communicate with German agents in Latin America, and these spies.

593
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 3: They were gathering all this information about like shipping, coastal defenses,

594
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: military movements and all that stuff that like Berlin wanted

595
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 3: it for submarine warfare, right, Yeah, So her Elizabeth unit

596
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 3: was tasked with breaking access ciphers and identifying Nazi spy

597
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 3: networks in countries like Brazil, Chile.

598
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: Argentina, not Mexico. No, but this is.

599
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: Where she intersects back with valve Lee. And we're going

600
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: to come back to Vealvelee in a second, but I

601
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: want to keep up with Elizabeth here, please. So the

602
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 3: German network in South America was coordinated through this real

603
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,959
Speaker 3: complex system of all these ciphered messages radio relays, and

604
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 3: the main German agent in the region was Johannes Siegfried Becker,

605
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 3: who was known as Sargo Sargo Sargo. He oversaw intelligence

606
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: cells in fifteen different countries.

607
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: It sounds like something you buy it from Ikia.

608
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: Or it's like a like a sandwich spread in another country.

609
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, totally as yeah, exactly.

610
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 3: He's responsible for fifteen countries all of their intelligence cells.

611
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: That's a lot.

612
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so he would transmit all of this data

613
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: back to Germany using like Enigma, like encryptions. So between

614
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: nineteen forty and nineteen forty four, she's still got this

615
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: little tiny Coastguard team and they're working secretly under a

616
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 3: code name. They're intercepting and decrypting thousands of messages from

617
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: Becker's agents. And she identified not only the message content,

618
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 3: but the operators, call signs, transmission schedules, signal locations. She

619
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: took them down. She basically mapped the German intelligence infrastructure

620
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 3: across the hemisphere.

621
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 2: Oh my god, this is so crazy.

622
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: Right, So her code cracking pushed the US and allied

623
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: governments to pressure Latin American countries to arrest these German agents, like,

624
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 3: you know, shut down the radio stations. You got to

625
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: cut their influence, like join up, get on our side.

626
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 3: The most significant operation was the dismantling of Operation Bolivar German,

627
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 3: these principal spy network in South America. I So, nineteen

628
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: forty four, thanks pretty much to her decryptions, the entire

629
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: network gets rolled up, dozens of German and local collaborators

630
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 3: get arrested, their communications channels totally wiped out, and her

631
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 3: reports were sent directly to the White House, FBI, and

632
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 3: British intelligence. And so you know, we associate the Enigma machine,

633
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: the decoding machine with the British. At Bletchley Park, Elizabeth's

634
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: team successfully broke simplified Enigma variants used by the German

635
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: agents abroad. Okay, so she didn't have the full Enigma machine,

636
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 3: but the communications correct. Yeah, her achievements were classified until

637
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: the nineties. The nineties and Jay Edgar Hoover, he would

638
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: go around like, yeah, the FBI broke the spy codes,

639
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 3: but like she was totally eliminated from the record. Really, yeah,

640
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 3: she was not put on there, and it wasn't until

641
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 3: much later after her death. But then they started going

642
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: back and like putting her name on things recognizing it. Yeah.

643
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so she never got her flowers.

644
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 3: No she didn't, so we present them to her. Now,

645
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: so Velveley's letters right back to Velvele. Elizabeth and her

646
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 3: crew determined that an open code was used for the letters,

647
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 3: and they're probably like, this is stupid. This is the

648
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: dumbest code I've ever seen. Like it's super obvious.

649
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: Because are just distracted by the dolls.

650
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 3: Don't be distracted. So they're sharing information on the military,

651
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: especially the ships of the Navy. The code referred to

652
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 3: locations conditions, repair stats, and a lot of it had

653
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 3: to do with the boats damaged at Pearl Harbor. So,

654
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 3: according to FBI records, Elizabeth's team quote concluded that the

655
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 3: three old English dolls left at a quote wonderful doll

656
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: hospital for repairs might well mean three warships being repaired

657
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 3: at the West Coast Naval Shipyard. Fishnets meant submarine nets,

658
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 3: and balloons referred to defense installations. I was kind of

659
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,959
Speaker 3: obvious and about that, mister Shaw, remember, yes, in early

660
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 3: nineteen forty two, the Japanese had to figure out how

661
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 3: badly they'd rocked the American Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor,

662
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: and so they also wanted to know how far had

663
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 3: we knocked him out, Like were boats being repaired? If so,

664
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 3: how fast were they doing this? The destroyer Shaw had

665
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 3: its bow blown off in this huge explosion at Pearl Harbor,

666
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: and it arrived in San Francisco about two weeks before

667
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: the letter was sent, So just reporting out on the

668
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 3: Shaw getting repaired. According to The New York Times, that

669
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,959
Speaker 3: letter about the Hulaskirt was determined to be a clear

670
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 3: reference to a ship struck at Pearl Harbor, which, of

671
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: course they said, quote This letter had been written a

672
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 3: few days after the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga left Puget

673
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: Sound for San Diego. Still, another letter was turned over

674
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 3: to the FBI by a Spokane, Washington woman, this one

675
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: carrying a Seattle Washington postmark. The letter referred to a

676
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 3: quote German bisk doll dressed in a hula grass skirt,

677
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 3: which was reported to be in Seattle for repairs scheduled

678
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: for completion by the first week in February. A check

679
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: by the FBI with naval authorities verified the conclusion that

680
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 3: the doll referred to a warship which had been damaged

681
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: at Pearl Harbor. The vessel was in Puget Sound Navy

682
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 3: Yard for repairs at the time the letter was written.

683
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: I figured they wanted to know about those aircraft carriers

684
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 2: because that's some of the early battle.

685
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,839
Speaker 3: Of the Pacific exactly Exactly, so FBI agents they start

686
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 3: digging into Velvele's life. She'd been pretty consistently getting loans

687
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 3: from banks and business associates in New York all the

688
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 3: way up to like nineteen forty one. She was struggling,

689
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 3: but by early nineteen forty three she was known for

690
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 3: prance and around town. She had like huge wads one

691
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 3: hundred dollars bills on her for real, Yeah, and they

692
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 3: tracked it down. Four of the bills that she used

693
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 3: in payments were traced by the FBI to Japanese official

694
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: sources which had received the money before the war. So

695
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: we were tracking money that the Japanese were using before

696
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 3: the war.

697
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: By serial number. We knew the money they were getting.

698
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 3: The tracking And think about it, this is pre computer

699
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 3: tracking all by hand, and so not only is that

700
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 3: just so overwhelming when you think about how quickly the

701
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: FBI was getting the people and all of this tracking

702
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 3: now all of the technology they have, like, forget about it.

703
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: There's no privacy, there's no secrecy.

704
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I always imagine I live in a

705
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 2: fishbowl exactly.

706
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 3: And so's okay. So they've been tracking this money from

707
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 3: before the war. In early forty two, she and her

708
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 3: husband went on trips up and down the Pacific coast

709
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 3: and they hit up the same cities which the four

710
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 3: other led has been mailed from. Okay, and they stayed

711
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 3: in hotels that had a common amenity typewriters for guests

712
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 3: to use in their rooms, and the FBI goes out

713
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 3: and they seized the typewriters at each location, and then

714
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 3: they were able to link them to the coded letters.

715
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: The labs were able to connect them. So it's looking

716
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: like curtains for old Velvele.

717
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's kind of dead to right, right.

718
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 3: So let's take a break and we get back. We're

719
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 3: gonna see what Jay Edgar's boys have up their sleeves.

720
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 3: Zaren Zaren.

721
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: By the way, I am loving this one. This is

722
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 2: so fun and I loved also that without us communicating

723
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: at all, we both picked World War two era stories

724
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 2: this week.

725
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 3: Isn't that crazy.

726
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: It's just so bizarre.

727
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 3: It's that, you know, we sink up like our cycles,

728
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 3: sink a lot like that.

729
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for sharing seeing part.

730
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: Thank you for opening your heart. The FBI, right, they

731
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: got all they need to bust Velvely Dickinson, and they

732
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 3: aren't busting her for white collar crime. She's a spy

733
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: during wartime. This is big dogs, Yes they do. This

734
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 3: is dangerous stuff. Zaren, closure eyes. I want you to

735
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 3: picture It's January nineteen forty four and you're a bank

736
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 3: teller in New York City. It's wartime, and some days

737
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: it feels like the world may even be ending. The

738
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: whole world is at war, with fronts in Europe, the East, Africa,

739
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: you name it. Your two brothers are serving, one in Europe,

740
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: the other out in the Pacific. Every day you think

741
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 3: of them, you worry about them. Your sister moved out

742
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 3: west and she's working in a shipbuilding for facility. You

743
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: never thought you'd see the day. Everything feels so uncertain,

744
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: but you don't allow yourself to get overwhelmed or defeated.

745
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: Gotta get hot, the posters say, you need to be

746
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 3: strong for the boys out there fighting. There's no question

747
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: we're the good guys.

748
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: You think.

749
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: If you're fighting fascists and fighting Nazis.

750
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 2: You're the good guy.

751
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,439
Speaker 3: You always want to be anti fascist. That's the American way.

752
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 3: That's how you love this country, you think to yourself.

753
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 3: Just then a woman approaches your counter. Her face is

754
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 3: pinched and she's tiny, like a bird, couldn't weigh more

755
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 3: than ninety pounds or so. She's wearing a nice winter

756
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: coat and smart glasses. She seems to be in her fifties,

757
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: but you don't know. Some people are aging so quickly.

758
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 3: With the way things are. She asks to access her

759
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 3: safe deposit box. You tell her you can help her

760
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 3: with that, and you go to get the manager. As

761
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 3: you walk from behind the counter and cross the floor

762
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: to the manager's desk, you spot three men in suits

763
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 3: standing near the door. They're fit, and their suits are sharp.

764
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,240
Speaker 3: They don't exactly fit in, and you can't think of why.

765
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 3: Remember your friend Judy, she was seeing a guy. He

766
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 3: dressed just like that, clean cut and honorable. He was

767
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: a g man in the FBI. You tell the manager

768
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 3: there's a customer wishing to access her safe deposit box.

769
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 3: He nods, unlocks his desk drawer, pulls he ring of

770
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 3: keys out, and then locks the drawer again. He stands

771
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 3: and asks which customer. You point to the tiny woman

772
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 3: waiting at your counter. He strides over and you follow

773
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 3: sneaking another look at the men by the door. They're

774
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 3: whispering to each other now, and you would swear you

775
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:31,959
Speaker 3: saw your manager look over and give them a slight nod.

776
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 3: Your manager approaches the customer and you circle back around

777
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 3: the counter to your station. You look up and see

778
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: the men by the door dash over to your manager

779
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: and the customer. FBI don't move, one yells, a lady

780
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: across the lobby shrieks. You knew it. Judy is going

781
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: to love this story.

782
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: Velvet Dickenson. You're under arrest.

783
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 3: The customer spins around to face the agents and then

784
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 3: leaps at them like a spider monk. One of them

785
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 3: grabs her is large hands, ripping the tiny upper arm.

786
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 3: She lifts her legs up and begins to kick at

787
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 3: the agents. She's spitting and swearing, and it's just the

788
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: oddest thing you've ever seen. She manages to rip one

789
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: of her arms from the agent holding onto her and

790
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 3: takes his wipe. At another agent with her fingernails, she

791
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 3: draws blood across his cheek. You can see the anger

792
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 3: rising in his face. He wants to smack her, but

793
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 3: he's a gentleman. Gentlemen don't hit ladies. Besides, she's so

794
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 3: tiny it would be humiliating for him to take down

795
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 3: a small woman like that. An agent is able to

796
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 3: wrestle her into some handcuffs, and more agents appear and

797
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 3: drag her away. You dash to the washroom to get

798
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 3: the injured agent a cool wet rag for his cheek.

799
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: While you're gone, your manager lets the agents into the

800
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 3: vault to look at the customer's safe deposit box. When

801
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 3: you get back, they're all standing around the empty box.

802
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 3: One agent whistles and he flips through a huge stack

803
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 3: of cash. You hand the injured agent to towel and

804
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 3: return to your station. Maybe the world really is falling apart.

805
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 2: So she's like it got the size and body type

806
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 2: of a bird, but the heart of a house cat

807
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 2: has been pissed off.

808
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,280
Speaker 3: Fought them. She fought them like crazy when they picked.

809
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: Up that's nuts, the cawing and.

810
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 3: She went crazy. So but I mean, think about it

811
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 3: what she's up against. She knows she gets busted. This

812
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: isn't like you were saying.

813
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: This is so you can be hung for it. But

814
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 2: I mean, like that's probably not the time. Maybe I

815
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,560
Speaker 2: don't know, You're probably not gonna get bail, but like,

816
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: how are you going to fight your way out of it?

817
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 2: Like a three men in a store.

818
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: She's a frightened animal, Yeah, totally. You know, that's like

819
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 3: when animals get scared and you think, I swear to God,

820
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 3: like you're not going to get out of this. She's

821
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 3: not thinking. That was just pure fight or flight.

822
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: A friend of mine had a cat one time who

823
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: I had my skateboard over at their house, and the

824
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 2: cat got their hand or their paw behind the wheel,

825
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 2: stuck between the board and the wheel of the skateboard,

826
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: and so it then tries to pull away and the

827
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 2: skateboard it almost hits it. And then I see this.

828
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 2: I tried to go help the cat and it freaks out. Yeah,

829
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 2: I walked away looking like I'd gone through a paper shredder.

830
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: That's what I got withal We got the cat free.

831
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: But that was about what I'm imagining.

832
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 3: And yeah, so there's no thinking going on. It's just

833
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 3: pure instinct to like fight and escape. But to that

834
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 3: money they found in the box, right, yeah, fifteen nine

835
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 3: hundred forty dollars, two thirds of it was Federal reserve

836
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: notes that could be traced to the Japanese consulate. Well,

837
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 3: and then and so it did you do a little conversion.

838
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 2: For you, sez Elizabeth nine hundred.

839
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: Forty dollars is worth close to three hundred thousand dollars today,

840
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 3: bud So. When she was interviewed, Valvelet told agents that

841
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 3: the money in the safe deposit box was from insurance companies.

842
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: She had a savings account and then the doll business.

843
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,760
Speaker 3: But then in another interview, she told him the money

844
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: actually came from her late husband, like he'd passed away

845
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 3: at this point, and she said she found the money

846
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 3: hidden in her husband's bed at the time of his death.

847
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: She said that he hadn't told her where it came from,

848
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,400
Speaker 3: but she thought it might have come from the Japanese

849
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: consulate in New York City. February eleventh, nineteen forty four,

850
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 3: she gets indicted by the Federal Grand Jury in the

851
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: Southern District of New York for violation of the censorship statutes. Okay,

852
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 3: and that could get her like ten years in prison,

853
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: ten thousand.

854
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 2: Dollars, fine, Yeah, she's lucky.

855
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 3: Well, that was her first arraignment, and there she's described

856
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 3: by The New York Times as having a quote tense,

857
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 3: defiant manner and that she quote demanded who are all

858
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 3: these people? When she found FBI men and reporters present

859
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 3: in the courtroom, And then she pleaded not guilty. She

860
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 3: got held in lieu of twenty five thousand dollars bail.

861
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 2: But it sheeels like she's doing this not just for

862
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: the money, but like she wants Japan to win. It

863
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 2: makes me think that she really cared about the cause yeah.

864
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean she was so deep into the society

865
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 3: of it, I suppose she got swayed. Yeah, the press

866
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 3: were there and she yelled no photographs, and the judge

867
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: was like, you know, okay, fine, no photographs. Oh really yeah,

868
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 3: But then she turned the judge She's like, can I

869
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: bring my record player in my albums to my cell

870
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: She's like, no, you may not. Dam can I get

871
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 3: my ones in twos? So the FBI they continued the

872
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,800
Speaker 3: investigation and then they had another indictment May fifth, nineteen

873
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 3: forty four, this time on charges of violating the Espionage Statutes,

874
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 3: the Registration Act of nineteen seventeen, and the censorship statutes.

875
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 3: So she again pleads not guilty. They continued that twenty

876
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 3: five thousand dollars bail. Now both of the espionage counts

877
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 3: carried the death penalty.

878
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: I was going to say, yeah, that's what she's dancing or.

879
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 3: Prison terms up to thirty years, so it's no wonder

880
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 3: sheet on scratch. Her trial was originally set for June sixth,

881
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 3: nineteen forty four, who and it was postponed because of

882
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 3: the excitement surrounding the D Day invasion of Europe. So

883
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 3: by July twenty eighth, though things are cooling out, she

884
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 3: gets described by the press as the war's number one

885
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: woman's spy. She got woman's not lady spy, and she

886
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: so she accepted a plea deal. She's like, fine, well, no, never,

887
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 3: So they dropped the espionage count if she would plead

888
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: guilty to the censorship violations and she had to furnish

889
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 3: information in her possession concerning Japanese intelligence activities.

890
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 2: Okay, she's more valuable alive, right.

891
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 3: Well then, also because the government was willing to deal

892
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 3: because there was some question about whether her claims were

893
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 3: true that it was her husband who was the actual spy. Yeah,

894
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 3: with him gone, like, who's to say? And so the

895
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 3: real big question that was why did the letters get

896
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 3: bounced back to their phony senders. I'm well, it seems

897
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 3: that the Japanese, unknown to Valvelee deactivated the address in

898
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 3: Buenos Aires that was used to receive these espionage reports.

899
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 2: But she didn't know.

900
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 3: She just kept sending them, Oh yeah, addresses, right, or

901
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 3: she didn't receive a message from them being like stop

902
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: sending him.

903
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: This is like how I learned. I just lost a

904
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: Gmail account, so I didn't checked in and for two years,

905
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: and Gmail's like, yeah, that's a I hope you don't

906
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 2: want anything because you can't open that anymore. Oh really,

907
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that's what happens. Like if you don't

908
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: open a Gmail account for two years, apparently this is

909
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: the new policy. Yeah, they just tell you it's deactivated.

910
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: I'm willing to bet that they sent me another prior email.

911
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,320
Speaker 2: I ignored that, and then now they sent me the

912
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 2: email that I did open, which is like, I hope

913
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 2: you didn't have anything in there because you can't open it.

914
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 2: We've deleted it. It's gone, it's unrecoverable.

915
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:30,919
Speaker 3: That's what you haven't looked at it for two years.

916
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 3: You don't need it.

917
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 2: No, this isn't clothing. This it is Oh no, I

918
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: was bummed, but anyway, whatever.

919
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 3: So she told the FBI that the code to be

920
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: used in the letters and the twenty five grand, one

921
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 3: hundred dollars bills had been passed to her husband by

922
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 3: that naval attache ittrro Yokoyama. Yeah, and then it all

923
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: went down in the doll store. She's like, that's the

924
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 3: scene of a crime. The problem was that the FBI

925
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: investigation discovered that Velva Lee like she knew Ichiro Yoka

926
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 3: Yama really well. Her husband had no idea who he was,

927
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 3: never met him.

928
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: That's going to say how hard wud that be to prove?

929
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: Probably not hard.

930
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: And so they also unearthed medical records that showed that

931
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 3: her husband was not of sound mind and body when

932
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,879
Speaker 3: the payment was supposed to have been made. Oh, so

933
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: that there's no way he could have coordinated it. He

934
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 3: couldn't have showed up. He was like fully in dementia

935
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 3: at this point. And then they also spoke with the

936
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 3: nurse and the maid employed in their house that were

937
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,360
Speaker 3: caring for mister Dickinson, and they both swore up and

938
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,879
Speaker 3: down there was no money hidden anywhere near or in

939
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 3: his bed, Like we made the bed all the time,

940
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: it was nothing there. So she got sentence on August fourteenth,

941
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 3: nineteen forty four. She wore a black dress and hat

942
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: and she these like white knit gloves, and this point

943
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 3: she's down to like just under ninety pounds. She's so tiny.

944
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 3: She cried and she begged and she pleaded for mercy

945
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 3: from the court. She's like, I'm not a Japanese agent.

946
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 3: It saw my husband's phone and I have no idea

947
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 3: what those letters even mean as the judges like, too bad.

948
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 3: She got the maximum sentence ten years in prison, ten

949
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,919
Speaker 3: thousand dollars. Fine, So they sent her to the reformatory

950
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 3: for women Alderson, West Virginia. You know who else was

951
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 3: up in there?

952
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: I don't know.

953
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 3: Tokyo Rose and Axis Sally, two other traders.

954
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: I was gonna say Tokyo. I didn't think she had

955
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:24,839
Speaker 2: been caught by that as.

956
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 3: Sally vel v Lee. She got paroled in nineteen fifty one.

957
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:29,919
Speaker 3: She went back to New York. She got a job

958
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 3: at Catholic Charities under the name Catherine Dickinson. And I'll

959
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: give you one guess who gave her the job.

960
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,280
Speaker 2: One guess who gave her the job? Oh?

961
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 3: Is it Friedman Eunice Kennedy.

962
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness, of course with the Dolls Catholic.

963
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 3: So remember they'd met back in the early Doll days.

964
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 3: They ran into each other at the prison when Eunice

965
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 3: was there to research how to help female prisoners transition

966
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: back into society after release. And then they hit it

967
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 3: off all over again, and Valvelee even went to Unice's

968
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: wedding to Sergeant Schreiver in nineteen fifty three. Crazy she

969
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 3: gave him a monogrammed stationary set from Tiffany's It's not

970
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 3: wild crazy.

971
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 2: So later on she's like two degrees of separation from

972
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 2: Arnold Schwarzenega Yes, because he was married to driver daughter

973
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 2: of sergeanty Nice.

974
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 3: She Valvely moved to Cape cod to work as Unice's

975
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,840
Speaker 3: administrative assistant and then and Unice called her a quote

976
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 3: remarkable secretary, like just took her to so September of

977
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty Yeah, September of sixty three. Unice tried to

978
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 3: get her a job at the US Pavilion in the

979
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty four World's Fair in New York City, And

980
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 3: I don't know if she was able to pull that off.

981
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 3: But Velvelee did ask Unice, quote, will a special clearance

982
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 3: be necessary? I'm certain you realize why I asked this

983
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 3: question of you, Like, she's not getting there anything sensitive. Yeah,

984
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,439
Speaker 3: we understand, Velvele, We remember. So not much is known

985
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 3: about her life after that. There are reports that she

986
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 3: died in nineteen eighty, but nothing is to where or how.

987
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 3: Nothing in the papers culture where the nineteen eighty is

988
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 3: coming from? Zaren, what's your ridiculous takeaway?

989
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,960
Speaker 2: Oh? I mean the units Kennedy part. But that's kind

990
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 2: of a recency effect. But that's just wild that it

991
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,399
Speaker 2: comes full circle and she's like, hey, I've been doing

992
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 2: this Halfway House stuff, transition stuff and veil Vale. We

993
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: always hit it off. Remember the doll stuff we.

994
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 3: Used to get back into The dolls were great.

995
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: I'd like to make you my living doll that I

996
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 2: get to play with. Save this is crazy, but mostly

997
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 2: I'm still hung up on doll hospital. Like, I know,

998
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 2: I got it wrong when you were talking about it,

999
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 2: because I was imagining like a you know where they

1000
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: play that it's a hospital and they're moving their dolls around,

1001
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 2: but actually it's just like where you repair broken dolls.

1002
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 2: All of doll culture is so weird to me change

1003
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: and I'm not being judgmental in the least. I mean, like,

1004
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 2: rock on, do your doll thing, but like I'm imagining

1005
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: people like making all the outfits. And then like you're

1006
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 2: talking to somebody who has had ventriloquist dolls and has

1007
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 2: had like like sock puppets and like little wooden headed

1008
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: puppets that I would talk to my sister on road

1009
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 2: trips with Like, so I'm nobody to sit here and

1010
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: back like, I can't believe they got dolls. You know,

1011
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 2: I'm not being like that, but it's just I'm just

1012
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: astounded by how humans, humanity, we will find something we

1013
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 2: love and turn it into its own little world. I mean,

1014
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 2: it's a huge world where you can have like all

1015
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 2: the doll stuff. Everything were humans but for the dolls.

1016
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, we we fixate on things and then turn it

1017
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 3: into a cottage industry.

1018
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms like fill it in like a whole world.

1019
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 2: You know, it's just like a different level of the

1020
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 2: whole world. I'm trying to have little doll car mechanics

1021
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: and like little doll matchmaking services. Anyway, Elizabeth, what is

1022
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,320
Speaker 2: your to goes takeaway?

1023
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 3: I was thinking during this about not obviously having lived

1024
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: through World War Two, but like thinking about life goes

1025
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 3: on and everything continues and people are traveling and working

1026
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: and doing all these things. But I will always remember

1027
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 3: asking my grandmother about it. You know, she was a

1028
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,880
Speaker 3: young woman then. Oh, and she told me something that

1029
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 3: this has always stuck with me is that we were

1030
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 3: never sure if the world was going to end. Was

1031
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 3: this when it was in like the most tenuous moments,

1032
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 3: And to have that kind of hanging over your head

1033
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 3: and then how you handle those things. And I think

1034
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 3: that subsequent generations we have this view of it from

1035
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 3: the movies and from TV of what, yeah, what it

1036
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: was like, Yeah, and you know all this kind of

1037
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,480
Speaker 3: bravery and stuff, but you had to have incredible bravery

1038
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 3: and sacrifice just in your day to day of what

1039
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 3: that must have felt like. And then you think too

1040
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: of like, here's vel Vale. She's connected to this Japanese community,

1041
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: and we have two Japanese communities in California at that time.

1042
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 3: So you have the diplomats in San Francisco who are

1043
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 3: working against odds to the place where they are, and

1044
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 3: then you have all these Japanese Americans, some of them

1045
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 3: you know, know from Japan, like immigrated in their lifetime

1046
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:09,760
Speaker 3: and didn't speak English, but bulk of them likes exactly

1047
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: and here. So she has this affinity for the culture. Well,

1048
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 3: which which group are you gonna associate with? You have

1049
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 3: someone like Bob Fletcher who wound up saving farms because

1050
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 3: he these were his neighbors and he loved them like

1051
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 3: he loved all of his neighbors.

1052
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: Valva Lee.

1053
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 3: She goes and betrays people, but yet those were her friends.

1054
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 3: Did she really how did she did she feel she

1055
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 3: was really betraying anything.

1056
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Like believe was the hero, not the villain of her

1057
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: own story. So she's thinking she's saving this great culture,

1058
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 2: these great people, the honorable thing. Wait, their dollmaking has

1059
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: got to be amazing.

1060
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 3: And they did, the Japanese know how to make it doll.

1061
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 3: But like the was it driven primarily by the money?

1062
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: And you look back at her family that you know,

1063
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 3: her parents scrimped and saved and sent her brother and like,

1064
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 3: so what was the story there? I don't know. You

1065
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: want to know so much more about these people. But

1066
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 3: I kept thinking about we have a vision in our

1067
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 3: lives about pastimes based solely on media, you know, like

1068
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:08,799
Speaker 3: you were talking about Betty Grable and you see her

1069
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 3: paintings on the side of the plane, and you see

1070
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 3: World War two movies for the most part, until we

1071
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 3: get to more realistic ones later on, about come on.

1072
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: Boys, let's do it in there.

1073
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 3: And it's terrifying what they're doing. Yes, and it's a

1074
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,160
Speaker 3: monumental feat and it's something that we can need to

1075
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 3: continue to acknowledge as absolutely breathtaking an incredible inhuman endeavor.

1076
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 3: But I always try and think about what was it

1077
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 3: actually like in those.

1078
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 2: Times day to day level? Yeah, yeah, M a cup

1079
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 2: of coffee and wondering will tomorrow would all go right?

1080
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 3: Right? And do you buy into all the bad news

1081
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 3: you hear? Do you buy into the propaganda good news?

1082
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 3: Like somewhere in the middle?

1083
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 2: Howe? And also how do you not just reject everything

1084
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: or become like some hedonist because the world's ending, you

1085
00:55:58,719 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like I'm gonna get mine.

1086
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,840
Speaker 3: And while I came exactly exactly so it's complex. Times

1087
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 3: weren't simple then they were just as complex as now.

1088
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 3: I would like to talk back after that.

1089
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: That would be delectable, David, Oh my god, did I

1090
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: led jet herd?

1091
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 4: Dudes? Alex here, longtime listener, and I was just listening

1092
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 4: the other day to the episode that you did where

1093
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:38,840
Speaker 4: you referred to Penelope from Criminal Minds? And I feel

1094
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 4: you on the outfits. But what I think is more

1095
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 4: ridiculous is why she had to wear those in the

1096
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,720
Speaker 4: first place, which is because when she arrived on the set,

1097
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 4: they literally had no clothes in her size. Oh her

1098
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:53,720
Speaker 4: wear her own clothes?

1099
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 3: Are you kidding me? I had no idea that's that boo.

1100
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 3: That well, first of all those are your own clothes,

1101
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:02,479
Speaker 3: that's what you show up. But aside from.

1102
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 2: That, well, yeah, Alex, thank you for let I love

1103
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: behind the scenes.

1104
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 3: That's wild.

1105
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to always defend her.

1106
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 3: Because it doesn't fit in with anything else anyone wears

1107
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 3: on that show.

1108
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: I thought it was some writer's idea of.

1109
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:16,800
Speaker 3: Like that's what I thought of, like, oh, she's this

1110
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 3: zany hacker. No, instead, she's left behind by the industry.

1111
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 3: Fantastic God, thank you for that. That's it for today.

1112
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 3: You can find us online at ridiculous Crime dot com.

1113
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 3: We're also at Ridiculous Crime on both Blue Sky and

1114
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 3: Instagram and on YouTube at Ridiculous Crime Pod. Email us

1115
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,200
Speaker 3: at ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com, leave a talk

1116
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 3: back on the iHeart app. If you have any other cool,

1117
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: behind the scenes knowledge about Criminal Minds or any other show,

1118
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: please please leave it reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted

1119
00:57:54,040 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 3: by Elizabeth Dudman Zarin Burnette, produced and edited by Antiques

1120
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 3: Roadshow's resident doll expert. Day of Coustin, starring Annalise Rutger

1121
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 3: as Judith. Research is by committed anti fascists Marissa Brown

1122
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,280
Speaker 3: and Jabbari Davis. The theme song is by Eunice Kennedy,

1123
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 3: Shriver's pool Boys Thomas Lee and Travis Dutton. Post wardrobe

1124
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 3: is provided by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup

1125
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 3: by Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are fbi Ovaltine,

1126
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 3: Secret Code Ring Task Force members Ben Bollen and Noel Brown.

1127
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 3: Gus Quime Say It One More Times Crime.

1128
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1129
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,560
Speaker 1: My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1130
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows,