1
00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: today's best minds and middleweight fighter and Treasury Secretary Scott

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:17,520
Speaker 1: Essen says TikTok will retain quote Chinese characteristics after sale.

5
00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:20,160
Speaker 1: We have such a great show for you today. Media

6
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 1: Matter's own Angelo Karasone stops by to talk to us

7
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: about Trump's increasing threats to media organizations. Ben we'll talk

8
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 1: to the American Federation of Teacher President Randy Weiningarden about

9
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: her new book, Why Fascist Fear of Teachers. But first

10
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:38,680
Speaker 1: the news.

11
00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:42,680
Speaker 2: Mali cash Bottel is testifying in front of Congress right now.

12
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,040
Speaker 2: I have to choose my words well here, but it

13
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,640
Speaker 2: seems even the Republicans aren't buying what he's selling.

14
00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:53,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, these hearings. If you're going to watch one incredible

15
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: bit of politics as theater, this is it. Man correct

16
00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: for a second.

17
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 2: Theater, you buy what the actors are doing.

18
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,240
Speaker 1: This you don't buy what the actors are doing. That

19
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 1: is for sure true. So this is very interesting. So

20
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 1: we have cash Bettel. He is up there. He is

21
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:18,520
Speaker 1: being interviewed by the Senate. There's a moment where Senator Kennedy,

22
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:23,560
Speaker 1: John Kennedy from the Great State of Louisiana. Used to

23
00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,399
Speaker 1: be a guy who like basically pretends to be dumb.

24
00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,039
Speaker 1: He went to Oxford. He's actually like pretty smart. He's

25
00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,440
Speaker 1: a lawyer. Used to be a Democrat, now is a

26
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,880
Speaker 1: Republican who pretends to be dumb, which I think is

27
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,200
Speaker 1: worth thinking about for just a second. This is the

28
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: line he says, did you know about do you think

29
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,759
Speaker 1: that who? Sort of like who is on Jeffrey Epstein's

30
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360
Speaker 1: list the client list that doesn't exist except when it does.

31
00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 1: And Bettel says there is no credible evidence none that

32
00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,160
Speaker 1: Epstein trafficked to other individuals. Now, we know this to

33
00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,240
Speaker 1: be true because it's not right. We know this is

34
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 1: not true. We know this is not true because Virginia Giuffrey,

35
00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,880
Speaker 1: who died by suicide this year, had countless stories about

36
00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew. We know this to be true because during

37
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 1: the investigation Glaine Maxwell said as much. We know this

38
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: to be true. This is like as true as anything

39
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:21,960
Speaker 1: we know.

40
00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,680
Speaker 2: Is this great reporting by Julie K. Brown, great book

41
00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:26,720
Speaker 2: by Julie K. Brown.

42
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: Right, there are more than two hundred victims. So we

43
00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,919
Speaker 1: sat and heard a press conference pretty recently where they

44
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 1: said we'll just make the list ourselves. So here is

45
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,240
Speaker 1: cash Ptel's saying there is no list. There is no

46
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,720
Speaker 1: there there, which is pretty damning because there is no

47
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,520
Speaker 1: world in which it's possibly true. Patel says, if there

48
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:55,240
Speaker 1: were evidence, I would bring the case yesterday. Okay. But

49
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 1: the other thing, there are a number of great moments

50
00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,320
Speaker 1: in that hearing you should watch. There is an incredible

51
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,520
Speaker 1: moment where the junior senator from Vermont, Peter Welsh, gets

52
00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,720
Speaker 1: in there and asks him about his use of the

53
00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: FBI's private jet. That is a real crowd pleaser. By

54
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: the way, he's like, so you were at a UFC

55
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,760
Speaker 1: fight with mel Gibson in Las Vegas and he says, well,

56
00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,239
Speaker 1: I live in Las Vegas. You were in Miami at

57
00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 1: a whatever sporting event. Do you live in Miami too?

58
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,560
Speaker 1: By the way, like Cash Battel is not just going

59
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 1: to REO's. He's going everywhere. And perhaps the lesson of

60
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 1: this story is that, well he may not be a

61
00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,880
Speaker 1: good director of the FBI, Cash Pattel is a very

62
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:42,360
Speaker 1: good time.

63
00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 2: He loves to go to a fight. Okay, Well, we

64
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,280
Speaker 2: got to talk about other things. There's five new members

65
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,080
Speaker 2: we now know the names of named to the influential

66
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 2: CDC Vaccine Advisory Committee and Maya. I know we don't

67
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 2: disparage NEPO babies on this podcast, but it's an assortment

68
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 2: of kooks and nepo babies.

69
00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: We're all oh all the time. But let's just talk

70
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,920
Speaker 1: about this for a second. RFK Junior, perhaps not the best?

71
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 1: Is that fair to say?

72
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 2: Very fair?

73
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 1: So the new members include a lot of people. Well,

74
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:17,599
Speaker 1: some of these people are doctors. That's something. The daughter

75
00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:22,240
Speaker 1: in law of Senator Marsha Blackburn, somebody who is a

76
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,159
Speaker 1: who practices cardiology at a place called Four Hearts and

77
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:32,320
Speaker 1: Souls Free Medical Clinic in Hawaii. They're basically all famous

78
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,159
Speaker 1: for being anti boxers as far as I can tell.

79
00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,279
Speaker 2: Right, it's that vibe. And then we have the one

80
00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,440
Speaker 2: that has some nepotism that it doesn't seem as crazy,

81
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,600
Speaker 2: but you'll be real shocked to hear that that's how

82
00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,680
Speaker 2: trump ism works.

83
00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I have to say it's the beneficiary of

84
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 1: nepotism myself. You know, you never want to be the

85
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,560
Speaker 1: least crazy person on a panel.

86
00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,840
Speaker 2: That's an interesting career advice. You should do a college

87
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:55,440
Speaker 2: speech on that.

88
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,200
Speaker 1: You could quote me, you never want to be the

89
00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,760
Speaker 1: least crazy person on a panel, Like sometimes nepotism ain't

90
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:03,359
Speaker 1: so great.

91
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,719
Speaker 2: You don't want to be the smartest person in the room,

92
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 2: and you don't want to be the least crazy person

93
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,919
Speaker 2: of that panel. You know, I noticed someone crouches. You're saying, sometimes,

94
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 2: I think you should get that for some college students.

95
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:17,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you never want to be the least crazy person

96
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,279
Speaker 1: on the panel. It's clear that we are heading towards

97
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,200
Speaker 1: some kind of crisis event here with this RFK stuff.

98
00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,880
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's pretty clear. So I don't

99
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,160
Speaker 1: know what this crisis event looks like, but it strikes

100
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,080
Speaker 1: me that none of this goes anywhere good. Again, Like

101
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,160
Speaker 1: you have to remember there's so many different ways in

102
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 1: which RFK, and we've had so many people on this

103
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 1: podcast to talk about this, which RFK has like undermined

104
00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,920
Speaker 1: your health and safety when it comes to like food

105
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 1: investigations for like you know, food poisoning, when it comes

106
00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,360
Speaker 1: to different food born illnesses, like there are just a

107
00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 1: lot of ways to get sick, and this administration is

108
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 1: guaranteeing that unless you're really lucky, you may very well

109
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: get something Sabaya.

110
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:08,720
Speaker 2: I have to ask a question on behalf of the audience.

111
00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 2: Did you learn this lesson that you don't want to

112
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 2: be the craziest person on a panel when you sat

113
00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 2: next to Walter Kurt.

114
00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,279
Speaker 1: On Bill Mahr, I said the least crazy person on

115
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 1: the panel.

116
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, Yes, yes, I'm sorry the least craziers.

117
00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,320
Speaker 1: Yes, I've had experiences of being the least crazy person

118
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:26,560
Speaker 1: on a panel, and I have to say I love

119
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: that you bringing it back to what really matters.

120
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:33,279
Speaker 2: Okay, So the House GP has released their stop gap

121
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 2: bill to fund the government through November twentieth. Well, it's

122
00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,240
Speaker 2: looking about what we expected.

123
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, one of the things that I think is

124
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,720
Speaker 1: a hallmark of trump Ism is a lot of this

125
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 1: isn't legal. A lot of this isn't how it's supposed

126
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,279
Speaker 1: to go. A lot of this is set up in

127
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,440
Speaker 1: a way that means that they have to do certain

128
00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,479
Speaker 1: things to get around the law or to get around

129
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 1: the way things are supposed to be going, all sorts

130
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 1: of different problems. So now the government is set to

131
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,960
Speaker 1: shut down, you know, within the next couple of days.

132
00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,279
Speaker 1: This is a stop gap to keep it open till

133
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,680
Speaker 1: right before Thanksgiving if you don't see why this is

134
00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 1: a problem. And again, like here's the thing. Democrats really

135
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 1: want Republicans to put in money because basically, what's going

136
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,840
Speaker 1: to happen when the way the BBB works is Obamacare

137
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 1: premiums are about to go up like twenty percent. We

138
00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 1: are already in a very inflationary moment in American life.

139
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, the guy who promised to make everything cheaper,

140
00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,520
Speaker 1: has made everything more expensive. Shocker. And so now we

141
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 1: find ourselves the deadline is September thirtieth. The government shuts

142
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: down on September thirtieth. It is September sixteenth, So that

143
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,880
Speaker 1: means they either need to figure out a way to

144
00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: bind bipartisan funding or shut down. Democrats, I think would

145
00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 1: like to see Schumer not back down. They'd like to

146
00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,880
Speaker 1: see Jeffries not back down and not be mean to

147
00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 1: Chris Holland. I don't know what that for anyone, FYI.

148
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: So I think it's a real question whether Democrats shut

149
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:06,720
Speaker 1: down the government. And you know, the thing is, you

150
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: can do it if you have a plan. You can't

151
00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,320
Speaker 1: do it if you don't have a plan. So you

152
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,680
Speaker 1: need a plan. So the hope I think we all

153
00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: have is that Jeffries and Schumer have some kind of

154
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 1: plan that you know, if they shut down the government,

155
00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,120
Speaker 1: they're doing it for a deliverable they can get from

156
00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Now you get to this problem, which

157
00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,600
Speaker 1: is it's very hard to make deals with Trump because

158
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,640
Speaker 1: he goes back on things all the time because they're

159
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 1: you know, his his dealmaking is largely vibes based. And

160
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,160
Speaker 1: the other thing is Johnson wants more money for member

161
00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:44,560
Speaker 1: security because for obvious reasons. So that's somewhere between thirty

162
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 1: and sixty million dollars. So, you know, Democrats want bipartisan negotiations,

163
00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 1: Republicans don't want by partisanship, Trump continues to be in bolden.

164
00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 1: This is a tough road to hoe. And you know,

165
00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,760
Speaker 1: and the question last time was that she and Hikeem

166
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:04,680
Speaker 1: we're not on the same page. So you had Hiquem

167
00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,040
Speaker 1: wanting to hold out and Schumer caving. So if that

168
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,560
Speaker 1: is what we have this time, that's going to be

169
00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 1: real bad.

170
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 2: Speaking of well, this isn't so bad because it's so silly.

171
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:18,320
Speaker 2: Trumpet his advisors are planning for a crackdown and left

172
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,240
Speaker 2: wing groups, one of them is Antifa Malli. Now, since

173
00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,080
Speaker 2: this is my wheelhouse. I have to give a little

174
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 2: memo to most people who don't know this. Antifa pretty

175
00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 2: much does not exist at this point. There may be

176
00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,240
Speaker 2: some people running around saying.

177
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 1: It's so, you say so, you say that's what you

178
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,200
Speaker 1: want us to think.

179
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,079
Speaker 2: This is one of those things where I could claim,

180
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,320
Speaker 2: of anybody who's in the media class talking about things,

181
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,240
Speaker 2: that I am probably the person who knows the most

182
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 2: about this Seeguz. I was very close to this culture

183
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,040
Speaker 2: for a long time, and this is really really silly

184
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,640
Speaker 2: stuff like this is the boogeyman of all boogeymen right now.

185
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,280
Speaker 1: So you say so, you say so, that's what you

186
00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,160
Speaker 1: want us to believe. Look, man, yes, Republicans have for

187
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,840
Speaker 1: a long time been very into solving problems that don't exist.

188
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 1: So I think we're likely to see a lot of

189
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,200
Speaker 1: other non existent problems solved very quickly. And I, for one,

190
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:21,240
Speaker 1: love to see Republicans solving problems in our real Angelo

191
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:28,080
Speaker 1: Karasone is the CEO of Media Matters. Welcome to Fast Politics, Angelo,

192
00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 1: thanks me. It's just shocking how bad it's gotten, how fast,

193
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 1: how bad we were talking just for a second before

194
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:40,960
Speaker 1: those about topics, and like one is more disheartening than

195
00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: the next. I don't even know where to start. Yeah,

196
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's a fair thing.

197
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,440
Speaker 3: I mean, And part of the reason it feels so heavy,

198
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 3: in particular, especially the moment, like you know, the the

199
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 3: last last week or so, it's the event itself is unpleasant, terrible,

200
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,439
Speaker 3: set right, distressing on. There's a whole bunch of emotions

201
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 3: that come with the event in a vacuum. But then

202
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,120
Speaker 3: if you take it one step removed, and this is

203
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,760
Speaker 3: where I think some of the heaviness that I feel

204
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,240
Speaker 3: comes in, and I know a lot of my team does,

205
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,280
Speaker 3: and you is that you don't just see it as

206
00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 3: one event. Then you start to look at it. You

207
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,080
Speaker 3: don't look at it as a vacum. You don't feel

208
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:14,120
Speaker 3: it in a vacuum. You feel it in part of

209
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,960
Speaker 3: a larger process of transition and change for our culture

210
00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 3: and for our society. And when you look at it

211
00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 3: like that, then the timeline becomes very collapsed. So I

212
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 3: see what's going on here. This is a catalyzing event

213
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 3: that will could very easily be used to exploit for

214
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,040
Speaker 3: the consolidation of more power, for more crackdowns. And as

215
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:35,800
Speaker 3: that's as you say, you see it through that lens

216
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,199
Speaker 3: because of the work you do in your sort of experience.

217
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 3: And then on the other hand, you don't see any

218
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,440
Speaker 3: speed bumps, you don't see any friction slowing it down,

219
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,440
Speaker 3: and so it's hard to grab onto. So in a way,

220
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,120
Speaker 3: everything kind of just crashes emotionally and mentally into one

221
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 3: quick moment where it's like, whatever is going to about

222
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,920
Speaker 3: to happen in six months from now? You begin to

223
00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,199
Speaker 3: feel and internalize that today and that that's certainly been

224
00:11:59,200 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 3: my experience.

225
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 1: So you are the head of Media Matters. Media Matters

226
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 1: is an organization that has has experienced a lot of

227
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,880
Speaker 1: the kind of thing that this administration would like to

228
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:17,160
Speaker 1: do more broadly to outlets it considers to be disloyal

229
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,240
Speaker 1: to the cause. And so I would love you to

230
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,000
Speaker 1: talk about We've talked about this before. You've been targeted

231
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,800
Speaker 1: by Elon Musk, been targeted by other groups. But talk

232
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: to me about like what that looks like real time? Yeah,

233
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 1: I mean in real time.

234
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:38,200
Speaker 3: What it basically is is a series of calling them attacks.

235
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,439
Speaker 3: In this environment, it just feels very different. It's a

236
00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:46,240
Speaker 3: series of very specific tactics that are designed to drain resources,

237
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 3: financial and time as well as emotional energy, and then

238
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 3: as it's draining those things, it's injecting a specter of

239
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 3: fear for additional escalation. And if you look at that framework,

240
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,679
Speaker 3: that's exactly what the conversation that's coming out of the

241
00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,680
Speaker 3: administration the last few days has been like, right, which

242
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,600
Speaker 3: is sort of this very nebulous but yet seemingly credible

243
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:18,120
Speaker 3: threats of retaliation against this constellation of network that they

244
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 3: won't name. And if you're a part of that day

245
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 3: to day independently these threats, what it feels like is one,

246
00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 3: you know, the natural response when you're under that kind

247
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,679
Speaker 3: of pressure is to go along, to get along, to

248
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 3: prevent right, which is that happening?

249
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,000
Speaker 1: That is the goal. We've seen it largely has worked,

250
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 1: that is it.

251
00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,439
Speaker 3: I mean that, and most major national outlets, a lot

252
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,480
Speaker 3: of you know, ABC and CBS and others, you know,

253
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 3: they they they bent. And even though they bent, Trump

254
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,880
Speaker 3: that's still threatening them, continuing to threaten them. But they

255
00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 3: they folded. They made a calculus that well, we just

256
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,440
Speaker 3: won't continue to do certain things that that's seemingly great

257
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,560
Speaker 3: and antagonized. Will adjust our mission accordingly, We'll change the

258
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 3: nature of our content and that's the goal. It's to

259
00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,600
Speaker 3: stifle dissent, which then makes it easier to consolidate power.

260
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,040
Speaker 3: And because sort of this feedback loop that speeds up

261
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,960
Speaker 3: each cycle, so day to day, that's what it feels like,

262
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 3: you feel sort of like the best example I can say,

263
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,199
Speaker 3: like on a practical sense is that, imagine you worked it.

264
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 1: Imagine your job.

265
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 3: Is beyond just your job, right, which it's already very difficult,

266
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,080
Speaker 3: but imagine it's you feel like you basically run a

267
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 3: half marathon every day and then you come home and you're.

268
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 1: Supposed to live your life, except you're not.

269
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:21,240
Speaker 2: Right.

270
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 1: Everything is sore, you're steel, maybe feel a little sick.

271
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:24,400
Speaker 2: Right.

272
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,720
Speaker 3: You don't get to compartmentalize that into the office. It's

273
00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 3: just it spills over into everyday life. And that happens

274
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 3: in these in these environments. And ultimately, what we're really

275
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 3: talking about here isn't anything controversial. It's actually the most

276
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 3: fundamental American thing, which.

277
00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,120
Speaker 1: Is to speech. Again, I hate to be the cock

278
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,040
Speaker 1: eyed optimist here because there's no reason for optimism except

279
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 1: one thing. I'm gonna and I know, I bet you

280
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 1: know what I'm gonna say, right, Pam Bondi's anti free

281
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,160
Speaker 1: speech tie rate of yesterday.

282
00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 4: Can you talk about it?

283
00:14:58,400 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it wasn't.

284
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 3: I mean, she basic made it sound like they would

285
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:04,720
Speaker 3: punish and retaliate against anyone that for saying anything they

286
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,680
Speaker 3: don't like, including you know, things that are beyond just

287
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 3: say insightmentto violence. But you know, she used a very

288
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 3: broad definition of so far, not just hate speech, just

289
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,840
Speaker 3: so anything they don't like, they'd basically define criticism as

290
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 3: hate speech. And you know, she was pushed a little bit,

291
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 3: not like in an aggressive way, would just sort of

292
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 3: like expand on it and maybe help clarify. And she

293
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,800
Speaker 3: didn't even take the cue from the interviewer, which is

294
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 3: a very friend of the interviews, even though it's yeah, you.

295
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,840
Speaker 1: Know, but she just dug in.

296
00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,840
Speaker 3: I think she thought she was doing great while the

297
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,480
Speaker 3: interview was happening, and at his core, though, when you

298
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,200
Speaker 3: take that away, you're kind of giving away the end

299
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 3: result before it happens, and when you say it out

300
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,400
Speaker 3: loud explicitly. That's part of the challenge in these moments too.

301
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 3: And I think there's something significant about that interview. One

302
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 3: of the challenges in these moments is that I certainly

303
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 3: feel like about you do too, is like you're sort

304
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,640
Speaker 3: of warning about what's where it's going, right, you know,

305
00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 3: the current moment is unpleasant, but most people want things

306
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:02,000
Speaker 3: to feel normal and stable.

307
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 1: And say, well, that's just rhetoric. Yeah, they're not going

308
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 1: to do that thing.

309
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,840
Speaker 3: It can't possibly get that bad, you know, not just

310
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 3: this sort of slow boil.

311
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: And so you have to try to piece it together.

312
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 3: You know, you sort of sound you know, you're theorizing,

313
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 3: and you know, it's an uphill climb to get people

314
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 3: to really see that. And when they say it, when

315
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 3: they explicitly say it, it changes the orientation around it

316
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:24,800
Speaker 3: and the way that it's reported on and the way

317
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 3: that people think about it.

318
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,960
Speaker 1: And that is probably one.

319
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,880
Speaker 3: Piece of friction in the system, is that they themselves

320
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,440
Speaker 3: have communicated and articulated it. And that's part of, by

321
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,160
Speaker 3: the way, a broader pattern of overreach. I mean that

322
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,400
Speaker 3: has been unfolding in the last few days too, like

323
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,720
Speaker 3: they really try to take this moment and turn it

324
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 3: into something that I think most Americans because they are

325
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 3: paying attention because it did strike them. The political vound's

326
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 3: is uneasy and it's not really resonated.

327
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:52,320
Speaker 1: It just seems.

328
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 3: Obvious what they're doing in that way, and the overreach

329
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 3: is always is always a risk, right, it will force

330
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 3: them to come back from the line, hopefully.

331
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,280
Speaker 1: I think of JD. Van's speech in Europe where he said,

332
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, you guys, don't I mean this speech, by

333
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,600
Speaker 1: the way, an incredible You know, you had Harris so

334
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,680
Speaker 1: worried about how she would do at the Munich security conference.

335
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,320
Speaker 1: Her aid's telling me she killed it. They were the

336
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: applause that, you know, I'm thinking to myself, Okay. Meanwhile,

337
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 1: Jadie Ance goes and says, you guys all are doing

338
00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 1: it all wrong and walks out of there. Yeah, and like, yeah,

339
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,520
Speaker 1: it's incredible.

340
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,440
Speaker 3: And look, that is part of that is the importance

341
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 3: of all this too, is that you know, authoritarianism, especially

342
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 3: during this stage of it, is theater. The performance does matter.

343
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 3: You know, if you think you killed it, you people

344
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 3: will kind of accept it. Or if you don't think

345
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:45,440
Speaker 3: it matters, which is the other part. If you don't

346
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:47,880
Speaker 3: make it seem as big of a thing, it's hard

347
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,560
Speaker 3: to then say, well, he blew it or it didn't

348
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,680
Speaker 3: go well. And you know, look, he was also criticizing

349
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,120
Speaker 3: them for being anti free speech, which is kind of amazing.

350
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 1: That that's the point. I mean, wait, he was criticized

351
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,280
Speaker 1: as being anti free speech, but he was lecturing, I'm

352
00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,080
Speaker 1: on free speech.

353
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,960
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, that's right, he was lecturing I'm on

354
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 3: free speech. The point is part of the right wing media.

355
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,919
Speaker 3: One of the stories in the right wing media that

356
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,160
Speaker 3: has been percolating for so long is that in Europe

357
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 3: they've been cracking down on people's social media accounts and

358
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 3: they've been essentially stifling they've been using the government power

359
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,440
Speaker 3: to implement and drive a woke dei agenda and then

360
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 3: brutalitating against individuals. And that was that's he obviously gave

361
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 3: a Lincoln a nod to that part of the larger

362
00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 3: right wing sort of sort of narrative.

363
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: And that's that. It has been a pretty big through

364
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:34,399
Speaker 1: line in the right wing media.

365
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,120
Speaker 3: Is that that there that the left has actually been

366
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 3: vigorously anti free speech, and you know they're.

367
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,840
Speaker 1: Going to get back at the left by being more

368
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 1: anti free speech. Yeah, I mean, and they're justifying too.

369
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,000
Speaker 3: They'll rationalize it, you know that there we are in

370
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,119
Speaker 3: this moment of the ends, justify the means, like pointing

371
00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 3: out hypocrisy doesn't matter.

372
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: They kind of embrace it. You know.

373
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 3: It is sort of this because it is about revenge.

374
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 3: You know, when Trump announced his candidacy his re election,

375
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 3: he did describe himself as an strmit of revenge. And

376
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:03,480
Speaker 3: the truth this revenge is amazing. People love me. We're

377
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 3: not supposed to get revenge in balance, Like it's a

378
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,439
Speaker 3: thing you're taught is not a good thing because it

379
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,720
Speaker 3: is poisonous. It is poisonous to relationships, it's poisonous to yourself,

380
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 3: it's poisonous to the people around you. There's so much

381
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 3: colateral damage. But it still feels amazing. And even if

382
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 3: it doesn't feel amazing.

383
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,960
Speaker 1: But thought of it feels amazing, you know.

384
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 3: And it's a tempting thing to get out there and say,

385
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 3: I'm going to get revenge against all the people that

386
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 3: hurt you or that made you feel like you were

387
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 3: being judged for your ideas. And this is a part

388
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:32,719
Speaker 3: of that story.

389
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,320
Speaker 1: None of this, Like, I don't necessarily believe that you

390
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:43,200
Speaker 1: can cause this. But they are responding to cancel culture, right,

391
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 1: They're responding to the fury about the idea that a

392
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,879
Speaker 1: mob a woke mob. I want you to you and

393
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,919
Speaker 1: I both know this is not real. But we're going

394
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,679
Speaker 1: to just go along down this rabbit hole just to

395
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 1: sort of talk through what the implication of it are. So,

396
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: say you're a movie star, you say something that is cancellable,

397
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 1: whatever it sounds like, and you get canceled. Maybe it's sexism,

398
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 1: maybe it's racism, maybe it's whatever this is. I'm talking

399
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 1: four years ago when things still mattered, and then there's

400
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: an outrage cycle and then that person becomes a star

401
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,480
Speaker 1: on the right and this was this is sort of

402
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,360
Speaker 1: the impetus, right, is this the impetus they're using. I mean,

403
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,400
Speaker 1: obviously Trump has other stuff, but yeah, there's.

404
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,080
Speaker 3: Definitely a piece of especially as it relates to getting

405
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 3: all these individuals fired and terminated.

406
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 1: You know that database that's being collected, you know, say

407
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: more about the database database.

408
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,320
Speaker 3: There's a database that's percolating that claims to have tens

409
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 3: of thousands of individuals on it. It originally started as

410
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,600
Speaker 3: anybody that was you know, that they identify them and

411
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,240
Speaker 3: pulled together their examples of them publicly celebrating or uh,

412
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 3: you know, or expressing support for Charlie Kirk's Harbor order,

413
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 3: and that it's kind of expanded it out now is

414
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,159
Speaker 3: sort of this broader thing of even including people that say, ok,

415
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,560
Speaker 3: I didn't agree with Charlie Kirk. I thought that something

416
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 3: said was terrible, but I don't think anything should be killed.

417
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 3: They're including that those critiques now, so they've really expanded up.

418
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: Does Spenser Cox end up in that list because he

419
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: did say mildly yeah.

420
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean people acknowledging the provocatory nature.

421
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 1: And with the by the way, Utah Governor Spencer Cox

422
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,639
Speaker 1: who did say maybe not that the shooter was a leftist,

423
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 1: which we don't totally know still right, because our FBI

424
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: is very into REOs, we don't totally know what the

425
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 1: what the may be more complicated than left versus right

426
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 1: for this shoot, right, I think that's right.

427
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: I think it probably a lot more complicated than that.

428
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,800
Speaker 3: And but that ties into this right because the part

429
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: of it is this frenzy moment. You have this catalyzing

430
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,480
Speaker 3: event for so and you can use it for so

431
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 3: many different things. One of the things that they've been

432
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,720
Speaker 3: doing is then going and getting people fired from their employees,

433
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,920
Speaker 3: holding that up as an example.

434
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 1: And it has two effects.

435
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 3: One is that it continues to reinforce the story that hey,

436
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 3: this this is representative of liberals in America. They are,

437
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 3: they celebrate violence, they are they are violent to their core.

438
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 3: Look at all these exemplars that we have been able

439
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,240
Speaker 3: to identify, and yeah, they're being fired, but like that's

440
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: that is them, that's who they are. But the second

441
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 3: thing ties into what you're getting to, which is that

442
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 3: and they've been you know, they've been writing media figures

443
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 3: that have been talking about it that this is giving

444
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 3: liberals a taste of their own medicine, that this is

445
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 3: it and they see this as an example of them

446
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 3: fighting back against cancer culture. You know, it's it's a

447
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: very tidverate, tad approach. But is that that's where the

448
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: tie it is because but it's organizing, you know, because

449
00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 3: when you do these things, you're engaging people, you're asking them,

450
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,399
Speaker 3: you know. And the Vice President said this in his

451
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,400
Speaker 3: own at the end of when he hosted the show,

452
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 3: which is, if you see somebody saying something like this,

453
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 3: report them right, right, I mean he asked me. And

454
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,360
Speaker 3: that is, you know, putting aside the sub substance of it.

455
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 3: That is good old fashion organizing. When you write people,

456
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,080
Speaker 3: give them a task or a charge, and then have

457
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 3: them participate and engage. That's movement building, that's power building, right, right,

458
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 3: and that's what it is. There's something and when you

459
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 3: participate in those things and you achieve some kind of externality,

460
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: it's intoxicating because gets to feel something and feel like

461
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 3: you're part of something. And that is what they're doing now.

462
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 3: It's part sticking it to liberals and owning the libs,

463
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,959
Speaker 3: which has always been a core part of it, and

464
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: part of it is them what they see is embracing

465
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 3: and refining the tactics of the left.

466
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: Yes, it does fit into that larger revenge narrative, right,

467
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 1: backlash to backlash to backlash.

468
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, because imagine you're sitting there and so you see

469
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 3: this trickle out a little bit with celebrities in Hollywood

470
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 3: that sort of identify as conservative. You know, whenever they're

471
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 3: doing their tours, they always talk about how they felt

472
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 3: ostracized or that they couldn't talk about their politics. That

473
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: underneath the surface. As all of these social movements had

474
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: been emerging over the past few years, these reactionary movements,

475
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 3: some of which are very intense. If you're if you

476
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: feel like the mob is coming for your ideology who

477
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 3: you are, you could always be next, right, it creates

478
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 3: this real fear and it just sits below the surface,

479
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: always sort of simmering. So in a way it this

480
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 3: is allowing them to channel all of those latent, intense

481
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,199
Speaker 3: emotions about you know, the mob coming for them. And

482
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 3: when you when there is these types of events, regardless

483
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 3: of there's something very powerful, it's if you feel very powerless, right,

484
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 3: and when there is, you know, if somebody is being

485
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 3: fired for saying they're a conservative, usually that's not what happens.

486
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: It's that they said something really terrible and then it

487
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 3: turns out that they have a larger pattern of saying

488
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 3: even more terrible things. And this is ultimately about a

489
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: business and they just like they don't want to invest it.

490
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: There are usually reasons for that. You're not really going

491
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 3: after somebody at like a local store like that. Usually

492
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: it doesn't create a national moment for the left. But

493
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 3: putting aside the distinctions, as if you're watching that unfold,

494
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 3: you do feel very powerless, aside from being maybe a

495
00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:57,919
Speaker 3: little scared and that that has you know, you know,

496
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 3: there's kinetic energy when you're moving, and then there's potential

497
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: energy when it's just sitting there kind of brewing like

498
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 3: a spring ready to pounce, and that's kind of what

499
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: they're tapping into. Is this a lot of this widescale

500
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,679
Speaker 3: feeling that anything they expressed will be penalized and that

501
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: they have to whisper or do it in these private

502
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 3: channels and otherwise they'll get in trouble. And now they

503
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 3: can just now they can just do it and they

504
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 3: can get revenge at the same time. And they're tapping

505
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,800
Speaker 3: into that too, And that's what reactionary movements are about.

506
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,920
Speaker 1: One of the things that I wanted to bring up here,

507
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: which I think is important, is that and it devolves

508
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: into some really really fun inter office fighting that has

509
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: already emerged. So Candace Owens, I would love you to

510
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: explain to our listeners what this story is between Candace

511
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: Owens and you know where I'm going with this, right,

512
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 1: one of the two most main character of main characters,

513
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: Candice Owens and Bill Ackman, please discuss. I also think

514
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: it's important in the larger scheme of how these media

515
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: figures are created.

516
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that's important. I would start with

517
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 3: a few things. One, you know you can do podcasts

518
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,120
Speaker 3: and shows, and that there's plenty of figures on the right.

519
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: You know that that have that, but you know, not

520
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: all of them are really talented.

521
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 4: Right.

522
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 3: They may have a show, but they may not be

523
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 3: talented like broadcasters Cannas owns, regardless of her politics ideology,

524
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 3: the stuff she says, Camiones is actually a talented broadcaster.

525
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 3: She's a talented storytellers. She just she really has talent.

526
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: You don't get to those numbers. She's talented.

527
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 3: And yeah, look I listened to and watched a lot

528
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 3: of these people, and you know she is a truly

529
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 3: talented broadcaster.

530
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: And no, Katie Miller, No.

531
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 3: No, right exactly, and you know, and where why that

532
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 3: matters is that it's also worth knowing that candis on

533
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 3: his background, she is not always a right wing figure.

534
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: Candace was not a right wing figure for as she

535
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 3: was sort of she started out on the left actually.

536
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: Right and yet another imagine get another success for the

537
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: party exactly.

538
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 3: Like, there's no but there's no way for her to

539
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 3: use that talent, right, There was not really a mechanism

540
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 3: for harnessing talented people like Candice owns. There just wasn't.

541
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 3: The right has plenty of those institutions, one of which

542
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 3: was Training Point.

543
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Right and so she doesn't find and does not grow

544
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: people and does not So there are no there are

545
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: no people like that on the left. There just isn't

546
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: really that.

547
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,400
Speaker 3: And so if you think about if your turning point

548
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: and your objective is to organize on campus and to

549
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 3: build power amongst college students, and then you have this

550
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 3: really talented person who's already demonstrated that they're disaffected.

551
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 1: Remember she did blexit, which is the black exit from

552
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party, and so she's sick.

553
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, she signals that she was like in the beginning

554
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,200
Speaker 3: the process of trying to find her own way, her

555
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,239
Speaker 3: and Kirk became really close friends. They were friends and

556
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,840
Speaker 3: because there was that, really she was affiliated turning point,

557
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 3: and they made investments in her. And that's the pipeline.

558
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 3: That's how you transform. It's not as easy as I'll

559
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: give you five thousand dollars if you become a conservative.

560
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 3: It's I'm talented, I have nowhere to go in this sector,

561
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 3: but I want to use my talent, and this is

562
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: offering it to me. And so it starts with rejection

563
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: and then it gets moved over. And here's how it

564
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 3: all builds to what happened. Now, So that background is

565
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 3: that she has that relationship, a really long history with

566
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 3: Charlie Firkin. Turning point obviously, now she is out on

567
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 3: her own, which there's a lot of stuff that happened

568
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: in between.

569
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,360
Speaker 1: But she's still part of that ecosystem.

570
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: And she's also been increasingly antagonistic toward it's become a

571
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: lot more conspiratorial, but she's been antagonistic toward net Yahoo,

572
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: toward Israel, towards sort of what she sees as you know,

573
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 3: this sort of constellation of very prominent Jewish donors that

574
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 3: are supporting Republican causes and trying to pressure them and

575
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: force them to be more pro Israel and to slow

576
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: down what she's seen as a transformation amongst her side

577
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 3: where they've been more.

578
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: Willing to criticize Israeli politics.

579
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: And she sees that there's a Butcher's And how that

580
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 3: fast forwards is that she claims that there's was this

581
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 3: incident back in May where Bill Ackman sort of like

582
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: you know, got to Charlie Kirk and screamed at him

583
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 3: and you know, chastise him, because the theory here is

584
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: that Kirk was beginning to waffle on his support for

585
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: the current you know, the current stuff that Israel was doing,

586
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 3: and that he was getting a lot of pressure from

587
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 3: Turning Point donors and from from prominent Republican donors, and

588
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: that Bill Acklan was sort of the tip of the spear.

589
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 1: That's what she claims.

590
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: And so she does this sort of like you know,

591
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: and it you know, she's in the larger yeah, story,

592
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: She's upset. She feels like people are trying to that

593
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 3: they're not only whitewashing and put pushing over history, you know,

594
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 3: claiming affiliation that they shouldn't have, which she's basically arguing,

595
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: is that people like net Yahou and others are going

596
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 3: to try to say that Kirk is pro Israel no

597
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 3: matter what, and the sort of claim that mantle and

598
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 3: associate themselves hit Kirk's memory with that movement, and she's

599
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,959
Speaker 3: pushing back on that, and in particular she's really trying to,

600
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: you know, I think use this as a moment to say,

601
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: all of these people, bill Ackman being the face of it,

602
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: they really made Charlie Kirk's last few months a living hell,

603
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 3: and we shouldn't forget them as part of the story.

604
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: So that's that's how we get here, and she obviously

605
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: makes threats to innuendo, she promises she's going to release

606
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: text messages, she doesn't get responses. Turning Point, for its part,

607
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: has fully denied that and her accounting of the story entirely.

608
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 3: But I don't think based on her past that that

609
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: means that she stops pushing that narrative, right. I mean,

610
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 3: that is the other free speech problem this crew is

611
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: going to have, is that part of their way of

612
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: succeeding is you have to get eyeballs. I mean, isn't

613
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: Trump's whole theory of success about sort of getting eyeballs?

614
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump's theory.

615
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 3: Of success, Yeah, I mean trumps Trump built an organized

616
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: power on the fringes. I mean, that's sort of how

617
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: he was able to just take over the Republican part

618
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: is that he built You use the fringes to build

619
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 3: a lot of kinetic energy and tension and conversation, achieved

620
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 3: narrative dominance, and then the rest kind of followed. The

621
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 3: theory comes from actually New York City tabloids, and it's

622
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: this idea that they basically function as a herd and

623
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 3: that you actually only need.

624
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: A lead steer.

625
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: Now in the in the eighties, you get one or

626
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: two tabloids to write a story and everybody else kind

627
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 3: of follows it. It's called the lead steer theory. Trump

628
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 3: just took that lead steer theory and applied it to

629
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: the modern information landscape by just getting the maximum amount

630
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 3: of social attention and then having everybody else follow.

631
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: And even today when.

632
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 3: He was asked before he went on the you know,

633
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 3: on the helicopter, somebody asked that if social media was a cancer,

634
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 3: and everybody is saying social media is a cancer, I

635
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 3: mean that's just like a thing. He said, No, No,

636
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: some parts of it are very good because to your question,

637
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: he recognizes that so much of his power actually comes

638
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: from being able to channel that for narrative dominance.

639
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: Narrative dominance. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Randy Winegarden

640
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: is the president of the American Federation of Teachers and

641
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: the author of Why Fat Just Fear Teachers. Welcome to

642
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Randy Weingarten.

643
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 4: I'm so glad to be with you, Molly.

644
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this book and why you wrote it

645
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 1: and and sort of get us up to speed. Yes,

646
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,040
Speaker 1: let's get it is Why Fascist Fear Teachers? So why

647
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: do they? And how did you get here? And why

648
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: did you decide to write a book.

649
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 4: Let me go to the in first, which is I

650
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: was watching not only myself but so many teachers be

651
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 4: so demonized in the last few years. I mean, no

652
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 4: other than like why would my Pompeo, you know, say

653
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: that I was the most dangerous person in the world, like,

654
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 4: you know, with not Putin but me. Why would Chris

655
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 4: Ruffo or so many of these other extremists you know,

656
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 4: basically say the way you actually create privatization and vouchers

657
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 4: is to create universal public school distrust. Why all of

658
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 4: the erasure and book banning and basically this smearing and demonization.

659
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 4: So I you know, I've been watching it, I've been

660
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 4: working on it for years, but I wanted to spend

661
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 4: some time saying is this intentional or is it not?

662
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 4: And what was clear is that it is an intentional

663
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: plot that you know, authoritarians have done for years to

664
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: basically get rid of knowledge, to erase history, to stop

665
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 4: people from being together and society, you know, creating the

666
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 4: cracking open of society. And what was clear by the

667
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 4: work that these are what was clear by what these

668
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 4: demonizers are doing is they fear knowledge, so they fear

669
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 4: critical thinking and they fear the other big thing that

670
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 4: teachers do, which is to create a safe and welcoming

671
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 4: environment for our kids. It's like they want society to

672
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 4: crack open. And then you think about that, because the

673
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 4: title was intentional, and think about fascists. What do fascists do?

674
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,760
Speaker 4: They create this US versus them. They create this sense

675
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: of demonizing and dehumanizing them so that people become specs,

676
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 4: they don't become people. And they do that so that

677
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 4: they can just trash for them, you know, in love

678
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 4: of the you know, beloved strong man, and in love

679
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 4: of the US. And you see that kind of division

680
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 4: and divisiveness play itself out in American society right now.

681
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 4: So I was pretty clear not to label any particular

682
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: person as a fascist because I didn't want the whole

683
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 4: discussion to be is he or isn't he. What I

684
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 4: wanted is for people to recognize fascistic behavior. And the

685
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,240
Speaker 4: second thing I wanted, so the first was the why

686
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 4: why is this going on? And the second thing I

687
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 4: wanted to do, which would not surprise you, is to

688
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,799
Speaker 4: lift up teachers. This is a love letter to teachers

689
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 4: and to what teachers do in society to help kids thrive.

690
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 4: And to help families and people who you know, you

691
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: don't know their names, Like you may know the name

692
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 4: of Abbie Clemens because she was at you know, Sandy

693
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 4: Hook the day of that shooter, but you don't know

694
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 4: the name of Ryan Richmond, who is you know, a

695
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 4: social studies teacher in New Hampshire. Or Ralfiyo Bonhome who's

696
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 4: a Civics teacher in Washington, d c. Or Barbara Johns,

697
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 4: who was one of the plaintiffts Brown versus Board of Education,

698
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 4: never got to go to an integrated school, but became

699
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 4: a librarian in the Philadelphia school system, you know. Or

700
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 4: Lilly and Keys who teaches in McDowell County, West Virginia

701
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 4: and helps kids who are in poverty. These are the

702
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 4: people who are trying to help our thrive. So those

703
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: are two reasons. Why is what's happening happening and who

704
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 4: is trying to help kids learn?

705
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: So let's talk this through. Republicans have for a long

706
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: period of time been mad at public education. They've also

707
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: been super mad at unions. So it makes sense that

708
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: the head of the teachers' union would be right in

709
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:28,359
Speaker 1: their crosshairs because you work in a union, plus you

710
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: are a teacher. Plus it's this free education, which the

711
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: Republicans would love to see that money go to vouchers

712
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:41,240
Speaker 1: and charter schools and religious schools and anything they can

713
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: that seems a little bit less egalitarian. How did COVID

714
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: open the door for some of the attacks that they

715
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: are making on you guys? It seems so similar to

716
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: the attacks on doctors. Really, let me.

717
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: Take one step back, because I'm also trying to teach

718
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 4: in this book. Sorry, I am a recovering social studies teacher.

719
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 4: But you know, there are three basic ways that regular

720
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 4: people have any power in the United States of America.

721
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 4: One is through elections, obviously in terms of who you elect.

722
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 4: To power is people go out and vote. The second

723
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 4: is clearly education, because it's not just learning to read

724
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 4: and write, but to think and things like that. And

725
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 4: so this is where free, universal public education becomes so

726
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 4: important because it is about other people's children. Is it

727
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 4: about all of our kids and whether all of our

728
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 4: kids have a shot. But the third is the point

729
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 4: you're just making, which is how do regular people have

730
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 4: a shot to get better wages or better benefits. It's

731
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,920
Speaker 4: through a union movement, you know, and through having a union.

732
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:51,000
Speaker 4: If you're not rich, the way in which you do

733
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 4: it in terms of negotiating is, you know, a union

734
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 4: movement and a collective marketing contract. So we're two of

735
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 4: those three. And that part of the reason where if

736
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 4: you are the billionaire class or the powerful elite and

737
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: you don't want regular folks to have any power, you

738
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 4: attack the ways in which regular folks have power. And

739
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 4: we are two of the three of them. And so

740
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: I think that that is one of the reasons that

741
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 4: the powerful who don't want to share power with others,

742
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 4: that's why they attack as opposed to sharing power with

743
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 4: others and making the country a better country. But the

744
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 4: issue about COVID, I think what COVID did is it

745
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 4: created such fear and anxiety that it created fertile ground

746
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,399
Speaker 4: for the US versus them for the demonization. Like and

747
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 4: I kind of got COVID really wrong because I thought,

748
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 4: I mean, look the record, and I've been investigated by

749
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,879
Speaker 4: Republicans up and down the line, you know, But we

750
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 4: were the first ones in April of twenty twenty to

751
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 4: say schools have to reopen. And we put out a

752
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 4: report that said, yeah, there's a bunch of other things

753
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 4: we want but schools need to safely reopen before anybody

754
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 4: else put it out. And yet because schools were not

755
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 4: safely reopened as quickly as they should have been, you

756
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 4: know how many times did I get, you know, demonized

757
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 4: by the right wing instead of them doing the work

758
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 4: that they had to do to actually do what they

759
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 4: did in Europe, which is create testing and make sure

760
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 4: that schools, you know, were a priority. And we knew

761
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 4: after a while, by January twenty twenty one, we actually

762
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 4: knew what to do, but the Trump administration didn't want

763
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 4: to do it. And just like they take on science,

764
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 4: they took on school teachers and unions and others who

765
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 4: were trying to do two things. Have schools reopened because frankly,

766
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 4: here's a spoiler alert. Nobody liked hybrid learning and nobody

767
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 4: liked virtual learning. People wanted to be my members wanted

768
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 4: to be back in school, but they wanted to be safe.

769
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 4: And parents wanted kids to be back in school, but

770
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 4: they wanted to be safe. And so I do think

771
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: what COVID did was it created such fear and anxiety

772
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 4: that it created fertile ground to find places to blame.

773
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 4: And we spent a lot of time you know, the

774
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: irony here is I was very, very vocal trying to

775
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 4: spend time trying to get schools open safely. And because

776
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 4: I was that vocal on it, I was a target.

777
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 4: Now there's another reason I think COVID and the long

778
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 4: tail of COVID, not just long COVID, but the long

779
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 4: tail of COVID is so highly problematic because it accelerated

780
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 4: the use of devices, particularly smartphones. And what's I think

781
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,879
Speaker 4: we've seen and learned of late, meaning in the last year,

782
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 4: is not just what smartphones and what the algorithm of

783
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 4: social media has done in terms of the nature of

784
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 4: our you know, political dialectic, but what is done in

785
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 4: terms of bullying, what it's done to make people feel

786
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 4: worse about themselves. And it's also what it's done in

787
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 4: terms of Jonathan Hate's new research about attention and so kids.

788
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 4: We saw this in schools when schools were reopened, kids

789
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 4: were focused on their phones, not looking at each other.

790
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 4: And I would often ask teachers, you know, are kids

791
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 4: looking at you? Are they looking at each other? No?

792
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,240
Speaker 4: And in some ways that's part of the reason why

793
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 4: these cell phone bands and schools are not so popular.

794
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 4: You know, it's all over New York. Now there's a

795
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 4: state law because we need to get kids into being

796
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 4: kids again. We need to get kids into an engagement

797
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 4: with other human beings, into playing, into thinking. And what

798
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 4: we're seeing is it's not just chet GPT and you know,

799
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,839
Speaker 4: taking a whole bunch of chapter GPT and you know,

800
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 4: pasting it somewhere and saying that's my report. It's that

801
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 4: kids are not thinking. That kids are not playing with

802
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 4: each other, the kids not reading, and so that is really, really,

803
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 4: really problematic.

804
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 1: To why do you think that Democrats are in such

805
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: a bad space at this moment.

806
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 4: I think it's a couple of things. There's a lot

807
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: of buyer's remorse about Trump, and you and I have

808
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 4: talked for so many months. You know where I stand

809
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 4: on all of this stuff. Because it was only one

810
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: and a half percent ultimately, But the difference between meaning

811
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: between you know, Trump and Harris in terms of the election,

812
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 4: You're not talking about a huge landslide here. You're talking

813
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 4: about a very narrow election. Even though Trump won the

814
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: popular vote and a lot of people didn't vote. I

815
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 4: think people understood who Trump was, but the reason he

816
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 4: won and Harris lost was about inslation and the economy

817
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 4: and people wanting to have a better life. I'm not

818
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: saying that's what everybody thought. We all know about the

819
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 4: cult and madget and this and that. But I think

820
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 4: the difference between why I Biden won in twenty and

821
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,399
Speaker 4: why Trump won in twenty twenty four was that. And

822
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 4: people see that their lives haven't gotten better, and there's

823
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 4: a lot of buyer's remorse, but they're really met at

824
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 4: the Democrats for not making a better case.

825
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: Right right, for sure, I think it spills over.

826
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I'm seeing people say, Okay, the vote for

827
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 4: the Democrats next time. I'm seeing a widening vote between

828
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 4: you or what are you going to do next time?

829
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 4: A widening chasm. But what you're not seeing and I

830
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 4: think people are saying this and you know, look, you

831
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 4: know I left the DNC. They're seeing it some from

832
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 4: the governors. But what they're not seeing is they know

833
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 4: what the Democrats stand against. What do the Democrats stand for? Like,

834
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 4: how are the Democrats even if Trump is president, how

835
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 4: are the Democrats going to help better the lives of people?

836
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 4: And I think that what we didn't do, and I'm

837
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 4: a Democrat, I mean we try to do it in

838
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 4: terms of of you know, education. But what we haven't

839
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 4: done nationwide is not have like four or five very

840
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 4: seminal points. I think one should be a working class

841
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: tax cut. I want to have better programs as well,

842
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 4: but workers really right now feel a lot of pain

843
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 4: in terms of inflation. There should be a working class

844
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,439
Speaker 4: tax cut, not just a tax cut for the rich.

845
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 4: Or don't just sprinkle, you know, no taxes on overtime,

846
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 4: on tips. Let's have a tax cut for the cost

847
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 4: of living so that no worker is paying taxes on

848
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 4: the first forty five thousand dollars of income. Let's make

849
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,959
Speaker 4: sure that people can live on their salaries as we're

850
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 4: fighting for higher salaries for people. Let's make sure that

851
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 4: there is affordable housing and affordable healthcare. And let's make

852
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 4: sure that school actually have wrap around services and have

853
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: the kind of curriculum and engagement that parents want for

854
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 4: their kids. Let's create these kinds of things. And before

855
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 4: somebody starts calling the socialists, these are the things we've

856
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 4: done over the course of his streak. What was Mitchell

857
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 4: Lama in New York City? It was affordable housing. What

858
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 4: did Johnson do in terms of the civil rights laws, medicare, medicate.

859
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:29,439
Speaker 4: What did FDR do in terms of social security? These

860
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,040
Speaker 4: are the things we do to try to create a

861
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 4: safety net so that people can thrive. This is the

862
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 4: United States of America. We should be able to do

863
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 4: these things. That's why I think they're mad.

864
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: So since you've left the DNC, it has done everything

865
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 1: that we hoped it would not. It can't keep up

866
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: fundraising wise, we're seeing the RNC is eating their lunch.

867
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 1: Are you glad you left? How does this ship get righted?

868
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 4: I left for two reasons. One, it was clear that

869
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 4: Ken Martin listening to anything that I was saying about

870
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 4: wanting to do this. You know, the DNC, it's not

871
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 4: every Democrat, it's a convener, but you know, you have

872
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 4: a real important goal in terms of that convening and

873
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 4: that kind of arraying policy and having a message and

874
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 4: communicating that message about what the Democrats stand for. And

875
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 4: you know what I've just said to you publicly. You

876
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,120
Speaker 4: know me, I'm not shy. I said it and it

877
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 4: wasn't paid attention to. And so that was one of

878
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 4: the reasons. If you were I'm busy enough. We have

879
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 4: a lot of work to do in terms of labor

880
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 4: and education and making a difference in the lives of people,

881
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 4: so I put my pursuits elsewhere. That's number one. Number two,

882
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 4: it creates an independence. There's a cynicism that a lot

883
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 4: of people have right now. Now some of it is

884
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 4: done because of the US versus them, and there's a

885
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 4: cynicism about you know, when life isn't getting better for people,

886
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 4: you know, people feel like, oh everybody does it. Oh

887
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,479
Speaker 4: everybody's corrupt. I mean, that's that's not true. But there

888
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 4: is a lot of people that feel that way. And

889
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 4: a lot of that is because in misinformation and disinformation

890
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 4: it goes back to what authoritarians and oligarchs and others

891
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 4: do and what you know, can be fascistic kind of behavior.

892
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 4: But what I have found is that that independence. My

893
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 4: members like it. My members, you know, even though many

894
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 4: of them are Democrats, they want us to view you know,

895
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,799
Speaker 4: the election and election time not through the lens of

896
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 4: their leaders being a Democrat or a Republican or be

897
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 4: on the DNC or the RNC. They want us to

898
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 4: have some more independence. It doesn't you know, mean that

899
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 4: they don't want us to vote for Democrats or endorse democrats,

900
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 4: but you could see them saying to me, well, where's

901
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 4: your loyalty? And so that independence I think is helpful

902
00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 4: for And I'm glad I.

903
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: Did it sound like what you're talking about here is

904
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: the difference between the people and the party who are

905
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 1: fighting and the leadership which is sort of following along.

906
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 4: I think that DNC is different than the governor's, those

907
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 4: in the Senate, those in the House, and I have

908
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 4: a lot of respect. I mean, look at what Robert

909
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:21,760
Speaker 4: Garcia is doing right now, as the.

910
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 1: Minority know, he's awesome. He's awesome.

911
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 4: Look at what Jimmie Raskin is doing. I mean, you

912
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 4: don't have the power on the floor of the Congress,

913
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 4: but they figured out how to go to Jeffrey Epstein's

914
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 4: estate and get things that they should get. I mean,

915
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 4: this is what fighting is about. Look at what Corey

916
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:40,399
Speaker 4: Booker did on the floor. You have to create it.

917
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: Just all people, not in leadership though. I mean, Garcia

918
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,920
Speaker 1: is the leader in the ober side, right, but they

919
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: did not give him an easy time getting there either.

920
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: The first guy had to die. But I agree, I

921
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: think you're right one hundred percent. We're at a time

922
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: why fascists feared teachers. Brandy Win Marden. Will you please

923
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:01,399
Speaker 1: come back?

924
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 3: Of course, no mock Jesse Cannon Maley.

925
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take you back to another time.

926
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: Please don't.

927
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,399
Speaker 2: At one point, libertarians said they are principled people who

928
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: cared about freedom of speech and that they would do

929
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 2: anything to defend it because we can't have no government

930
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 2: clamping down on our liberties. Well, Rad Paul the foremost

931
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: libertarian in our congressional body. He's all for cracking down

932
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 2: on people talking smack on Charlie Kirk.

933
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: So basically, all these Republicans are pandering to their base,

934
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: and they know their base is really upset about Charlie Kirk.

935
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: And you know, killing people is bad, okay, and I'm

936
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: happy to say that. I'll say that till I'm blue

937
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:49,399
Speaker 1: in the face. Doesn't matter who it is, don't kill people, bad, bad, bad.

938
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 2: I'm looking at Molly right now and the blue is

939
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 2: coming on, so I'm going to encourage her to move on.

940
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:59,640
Speaker 1: Right. But violence bad, free speech good. And also the

941
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: first Amendment, like the first Amendment, not the second, not

942
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: the third. The number one of them is like you

943
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: can speak. So I want to point to a woman

944
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: called Pam Bondy, who is at least theoretically our attorney

945
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: general and mostly just a pundit. At this point, she

946
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 1: went real hard on free speech, real hard. She was

947
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:26,399
Speaker 1: batted down by a real bipartisan array that I thought

948
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 1: was impressive. We had both the Bulwark and the Federalist

949
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: just clamping down on that. So, you know, look, free

950
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,360
Speaker 1: speech is sort of all we have here, so I

951
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 1: think they're going to have some problems taking it away.

952
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: But you know, Matt Walsh, Eric Ericson Wow, ro Conna,

953
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: and Matt Eglesias all agree at least on one thing, which.

954
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 2: Is every side of the quad graph you got there?

955
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: Can we get Nick Fuentes involved?

956
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we got it all. Man. Are the groyper's free speech?

957
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: I think I probably are.

958
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 4: Well.

959
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: They like to say lots of things that most people

960
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 2: don't like, so that, yes, I'm going with that. Yeah.

961
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not good. It's not good where we are

962
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 1: in America right now. Not great. But the good news

963
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: is no, I'm just kidding, there is no good news.

964
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

965
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:27,280
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

966
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

967
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,720
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

968
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.