Speaker 1: You know, it's really only a generation or so before
Speaker 1: mine that women were prohibited from going to see on
Speaker 1: some vessels, or restricted to their movements while they were
Speaker 1: out in the ship. One of my mentors tells a
Speaker 1: story of having to sleep in a tent on the
Speaker 1: deck of the boat because she wasn't allowed below tex
Speaker 1: How can you study the ocean if you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to be there? That was Dr Kelly Benoit Berg talking
Speaker 1: about the obstacles women have faced in her field marine science.
Speaker 1: But like the women who came before her, Kelly hasn't
Speaker 1: let challenge is stop her. Her research has greatly expanded
Speaker 1: our knowledge of the oceans and its creatures and how
Speaker 1: we can save them from the threats of climate change.
Speaker 1: I'm a land revere and this is senecas one women
Speaker 1: to hear. We are bringing you one hundred of the
Speaker 1: world's inspiring and history making women you need to hear.
Speaker 1: Kelly Benoit Bird is senior scientist at the Monterey Bay
Speaker 1: Aquarium Research Institute. Her work focuses primarily on using acoustics
Speaker 1: to determine how marine creatures, including squid, dolphin, and wales,
Speaker 1: respond to constantly changing environments. For her innovative research. She's
Speaker 1: been awarded a MacArthur Genius Grant. She's also given a
Speaker 1: popular tip talk Listen and learn why Kelly Benoit Bird
Speaker 1: is one of Seneca's Women to Hear. I'm speaking today
Speaker 1: to marine biologists and senior scientists at the Monterey Bay
Speaker 1: Aquarium Research Institute. Dr Kelly Benoit Bird. Welcome so much, Kelly,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me today. You know,
Speaker 1: at this moment, when climate change is such a priority,
Speaker 1: really the existential threat of our lives, why is it
Speaker 1: so important to study the oceans and their inhabitants as well.
Speaker 1: You know, we used to think of the ocean as
Speaker 1: inexhaustible and really too big for us to have a
Speaker 1: big impact on. And in fact, the ocean has buffered
Speaker 1: us from the worst of climate change, taking up of
Speaker 1: the heat from global warming and absorbing of the fossil
Speaker 1: fuels we emit each year. But it hasn't done so
Speaker 1: without a big cost. Changing the ocean circulation with sea
Speaker 1: i smelting, changing how nutrient is transported, lowering the oceans
Speaker 1: pH and oxygen levels, and reducing the biodiversity and resilience
Speaker 1: um as well as decreasing our fish stocks and changing
Speaker 1: where those fish are found. And the ocean really provides
Speaker 1: us critical life support. It produces fifty percent of the
Speaker 1: oxygen in the Earth's atmosphere and provides nearly a fifth
Speaker 1: of human protein intake. While climate change is one of
Speaker 1: just many threats the ocean is facing, like over fishing, species, invasions, pollution,
Speaker 1: and plastics. These are all compounded by climate change, so
Speaker 1: there's really a kind of triple threat happening. We urgently
Speaker 1: need information to effectively steward the ocean for the health
Speaker 1: of the planet and for all of humankind. Well, that
Speaker 1: response is so on target, I think, to wake us
Speaker 1: all up as to what an incredibly important role the
Speaker 1: oceans play, but also how much worse we can see
Speaker 1: climate change by what's happening to the oceans. As you said, now,
Speaker 1: I know you first got interested in marine biology because
Speaker 1: of whales. Can you tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: your childhood and what got you into this field. Well,
Speaker 1: when I was in the fourth grade, I got to
Speaker 1: take my first airplane trip with my family to visit
Speaker 1: a marine park, and I was really fascinated by learning
Speaker 1: about how dolphins and toothed whales used sound to explore
Speaker 1: their world through a process we call echolocation or bio sonar,
Speaker 1: and the idea that their world was just so different
Speaker 1: from ours that they needed a different way of seeing
Speaker 1: than using their eyes. UM just released this huge amount
Speaker 1: of curiosity. So I came home and read every book
Speaker 1: and our small city library on the ocean, on sound,
Speaker 1: on marine mammals, and was just left with a huge
Speaker 1: array of questions. But you know, I really didn't understand
Speaker 1: how I could turn that into a career. Didn't really
Speaker 1: know that science wasn't just a collection of information in
Speaker 1: a book, but really something you do write. Science is
Speaker 1: not just a static thing, it's really a verb. As
Speaker 1: the first person in my family to go to college,
Speaker 1: I didn't have a lot of role models for how
Speaker 1: to turn that sort of intellectual curiosity into something I
Speaker 1: could get paid to do. But I was really fortunate
Speaker 1: as a college student to have research experiences that showed
Speaker 1: me a variety of ways that I could get paid
Speaker 1: for being curious and contributing to the development of new ideas.
Speaker 1: Was your family surprised by your career choice? Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: my family always They always thought I would have a
Speaker 1: career connected to art um. In fact, as a college student.
Speaker 1: I helped pay my way through school by working as
Speaker 1: a scientific illustrator. So my parents didn't really understand why
Speaker 1: I wanted to continue going to school as a graduate
Speaker 1: student instead of taking a job offer with a book publisher. UM.
Speaker 1: It was really an uncharted path for them as well,
Speaker 1: and I'm certain they're very, very proud of you today.
Speaker 1: Your particular area of focus is acoustics and the use
Speaker 1: of high tech engineering. What have you discovered by using
Speaker 1: acoustics In my work, I use sound in a way
Speaker 1: that is very much similar to how dolphins use sound.
Speaker 1: We use sonar to map life in the ocean. We
Speaker 1: send out really short pulses of sound and then we
Speaker 1: listen for how those sounds interact with the environment to
Speaker 1: try to understand what animals are doing in the ocean. UM.
Speaker 1: When sonar like this first came into wider applications and
Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, as the result of World War Two,
Speaker 1: these military so in our operators discovered what they previously
Speaker 1: thought was the sea floor UM becoming shallower at night.
Speaker 1: And of course we know that the sea floor doesn't
Speaker 1: move that quickly. That is not a geologic time scale UM,
Speaker 1: and so the biologists started to be able to describe
Speaker 1: how this was a layer of life that moved upwards
Speaker 1: at night and down during the day. And this scattering layer,
Speaker 1: made up of fish and crustaceans like shrimp and squid
Speaker 1: and other animals, are really found throughout all of the
Speaker 1: world's oceans and are the largest untapped biomass of animals
Speaker 1: that we have on our planet, with ten billion tons
Speaker 1: of resources. We're now learning that these animals play a
Speaker 1: really important role in the carbon pump that helps to
Speaker 1: regulate our climate, and are really critical food resources for
Speaker 1: many of the fish that end up on your dinner plate,
Speaker 1: like tuna and salmon, but also seabirds like penguins and seals,
Speaker 1: whales and dolphins. So what's interesting is that despite how
Speaker 1: important these animals are, the mesopelagic or midwater zone where
Speaker 1: they live is one of the least investigated components of
Speaker 1: the Earth's system. So we're looking now at why these
Speaker 1: animals migrate up and down, how far they do that
Speaker 1: when they decide not to, and are really understanding just
Speaker 1: how variable this is. Um You might not think moving
Speaker 1: up and down a thousand feet every day is a
Speaker 1: really big deal, but if you think about this on
Speaker 1: a human scale. These migrations are the equivalent of you
Speaker 1: running a ten k twice a day, once for your
Speaker 1: dinner and once before you go to bed. And so
Speaker 1: this is a really important sort of bio logical conveyor
Speaker 1: belt in the world's ocean. It's just fascinating, so interesting,
Speaker 1: and you're continuing to work on this particular area. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: we're really developing new tools that can give us a
Speaker 1: new perspective to to get a fish eye view of
Speaker 1: life beneath the surface of the waves, to understand what
Speaker 1: role biology plays and the oceans effect on climate, and
Speaker 1: are starting to grasp just how important these animals are. Well.
Speaker 1: That concept of a fish eye view, it's really interesting
Speaker 1: to think about. Were there any particular hurdles that you
Speaker 1: confronted because you're a woman in this field. You know,
Speaker 1: it's really only a generation or so before mine that
Speaker 1: women were prohibited from going to see on some vessels
Speaker 1: or restricted to their movements while they were out in
Speaker 1: the ship. One of my mentors tells the story of
Speaker 1: having to sleep in a tent on the deck of
Speaker 1: the boat because she wasn't allowed below decks. How can
Speaker 1: you study the ocean if you're not allowed to be there. Well.
Speaker 1: Of course these rules around going to see have changed,
Speaker 1: the attitudes haven't always caught up, and that can be
Speaker 1: really challenging when you're out for weeks and a small space,
Speaker 1: under pressure and really need to work as a team
Speaker 1: for success as well as safety. Do we need to
Speaker 1: have more women in marine biology? Oh? Absolutely. You know,
Speaker 1: I've been really fortunate throughout my career to have had
Speaker 1: women a stepper a few ahead of me on the
Speaker 1: path who generously reached down the ladder to help lift
Speaker 1: me up and provide a model of how to do
Speaker 1: hard things in a way that felt authentic to me. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I have also had had senior mentors who
Speaker 1: believed in me and encouraged me when I need to
Speaker 1: push champion meeting others, and really everyone needs to have that.
Speaker 1: We need everyone to help solve the great challenges our
Speaker 1: planet faces. In biology, bio diversity is used as a
Speaker 1: metric of the health and ecosystem. You know this idea
Speaker 1: that the presence of each species really affects the outcome.
Speaker 1: For example, when we reintroduce sea honors and to Monterey Bay,
Speaker 1: their presence made the entire monterate Bay ecosystem more resilient
Speaker 1: and healthier. And I think that concept of diversity is
Speaker 1: true in the health of science as well. We need
Speaker 1: all of these different and diverse voices because our different
Speaker 1: backgrounds and our lived experiences shape the questions we asked
Speaker 1: and how we see the answers that we get. So
Speaker 1: we need those different ways of seeing to identify the
Speaker 1: most important problems and develop practical solutions. It's well said,
Speaker 1: and really it does represent the need for diversity across
Speaker 1: all fields, and your description appropriate to marine biology. It's
Speaker 1: really something I think our listeners can truly understand. Seedecas
Speaker 1: one hundred women to hear. Will be back after the
Speaker 1: short break. M But were some of the people who
Speaker 1: influenced you specifically? You mentioned having mentors and how important
Speaker 1: they were. Well, I don't want to leave everyone else,
Speaker 1: so I just want to give a couple of examples
Speaker 1: of you know, those creative, powerful women in ocean sciences
Speaker 1: that have helped to lift me along the way. Jane
Speaker 1: Ubchenko is one example. She's a remarkable ecologist and educator
Speaker 1: who has served in many national roles, including the US
Speaker 1: Science enjoy for the Ocean. She's been a model for
Speaker 1: me and how she's balanced her career and her family
Speaker 1: along with her research partner husband, and at a time
Speaker 1: when I was personally struggling with how I was viewed
Speaker 1: by others and how that was impacting my career, she
Speaker 1: gave me really practical guidance and encouragement that helped me
Speaker 1: find a pathway around that obstacle. Another example is Julie Packard,
Speaker 1: who's one of the founders of the Monterey Bay Aquarium
Speaker 1: and her commitment to engaging diverse stakeholders and ocean conservation
Speaker 1: and to creating change by helping to connect people to
Speaker 1: the ocean to help them understand just how important it
Speaker 1: is to all of us, no matter where they live,
Speaker 1: really challenges me to sharpen the so what messages of
Speaker 1: my research to help people understand just how important it
Speaker 1: is for life on our planet that we understand the
Speaker 1: largest living space on it, the ocean. I know you
Speaker 1: love one of MacArthur Genius Grant in two thousand and ten,
Speaker 1: and that is one of the most extraordinary achievements in
Speaker 1: terms of awards that one can get because it's you know,
Speaker 1: and perhaps our listeners don't that it's not something you
Speaker 1: apply for your work comes to the fore and you're
Speaker 1: selected over a period of time for the extraordinary work
Speaker 1: one does, hence a genius And has that changed your
Speaker 1: life in any way? Yeah? Absolutely. You know, one of
Speaker 1: the greatest things about the MacArthur Fellowship is that it's
Speaker 1: no strengths attached. It really let me take on some
Speaker 1: risks in my work that wouldn't have been possible through
Speaker 1: more traditional means of funding, and that really helped me
Speaker 1: to find my voice in science. When that fellowship ended
Speaker 1: after five years, it kind of gave me the freedom
Speaker 1: to take on some new challenges and I moved from
Speaker 1: an academic setting at a university where I was a
Speaker 1: professor to and Bury, where that risk is really an
Speaker 1: explicit part of the job description, and that has allowed
Speaker 1: me to take a different tax with my work, and
Speaker 1: where I've been focusing on trying to see the ocean
Speaker 1: from the perspective of its inhabitants and really pushing against
Speaker 1: the history of oceanography which is largely be bottom up
Speaker 1: thinking about the physics and the chemistry and treating the
Speaker 1: biology as passive and trying to see what we can
Speaker 1: actually learn from the animals. Think they have a lot
Speaker 1: to teach us if we can figure out how to listen.
Speaker 1: So it really did open up a whole new area
Speaker 1: for you to to focus on. Very exciting. If you
Speaker 1: could tell our listeners just one thing, but you can
Speaker 1: add more than one if you'd like, But just one
Speaker 1: thing that we could all do to protect the oceans.
Speaker 1: What would that be? Because this is such a challenge
Speaker 1: climate change and specifically focused on oceans. As this conversation is,
Speaker 1: perhaps you could help us think about the role we
Speaker 1: could play well. I would say to the young women
Speaker 1: who have a passion for asking questions, we need your
Speaker 1: perspective and your voice and science and engineering and science communication,
Speaker 1: ocean policy and education. UM. For those of you who
Speaker 1: are a little further along in your career path, I
Speaker 1: want to challenge you to take on the opportunity to
Speaker 1: lift others. You know, I remember my second grade you're
Speaker 1: saying to me when you go to college, and that
Speaker 1: gave me a new view of what was possible for
Speaker 1: me and really opened up my opportunities. But you really
Speaker 1: don't have to be a teacher to mentor or pave
Speaker 1: a path for others. So think about how to best
Speaker 1: use your talents and resources to invest in an individual
Speaker 1: to help make a better future for all of us.
Speaker 1: And certainly the STEM field is all important to encourage
Speaker 1: young people to pursue and particularly women and others who
Speaker 1: may not be as engaged as they could be. You know,
Speaker 1: we often see ads of one kind or another that
Speaker 1: show how much debris the ocean is being attacked with.
Speaker 1: If you will, you mentioned plastics at one point. Are
Speaker 1: there things that that we can all do to ensure
Speaker 1: a better environment around our oceans? Well, we can, you know,
Speaker 1: each take individual action, certainly, but I think the biggest
Speaker 1: things have to be done at a larger scale. So
Speaker 1: the most important thing that we can all do is
Speaker 1: use our voices, whether that's through voting, whether that's through
Speaker 1: expressing to our elected representatives that the ocean is important
Speaker 1: to us. By sharing our passion with others, that's how
Speaker 1: we can collectively make a big impact. Well, these are
Speaker 1: certainly challenging times, and here in every response you make
Speaker 1: in this conversation, just a passion for what you do
Speaker 1: and a commitment to doing it. So let me ask, finally,
Speaker 1: what gives you hope? Well, I want to start by
Speaker 1: acknowledging that sometimes it is hard to feel hopeful climate change,
Speaker 1: plastic pollution, and all these other threats we've talked about
Speaker 1: today facing our oceans are so called wicked problems, but
Speaker 1: throughout human history, science and innovation have really been used
Speaker 1: to help us provide solutions to enormous challenges. Of course,
Speaker 1: it's sept a people to apply the information and tools
Speaker 1: that science has to offer, but it's really hopeful that
Speaker 1: the ocean is being recognized by governmental organizations for the
Speaker 1: key role at place in all of our health. For example,
Speaker 1: we're currently in the midst of the u N Decade
Speaker 1: for the Oceans, and I'm really encouraged by the growing
Speaker 1: recognition that I've witnessed around welcoming new voices to the discussion,
Speaker 1: building new capacity and communities that haven't been engaged in
Speaker 1: these issues in the past, because we do need everyone
Speaker 1: to work together on these problems, bringing together science and
Speaker 1: technology with social and policy change, and all of that
Speaker 1: really starts with recognizing that we're all connected to the ocean,
Speaker 1: and it's a call to action for all of us
Speaker 1: for sure. Thank you so much, Kelly Benoit Bird for
Speaker 1: being with us today. Thank you for all you do.
Speaker 1: Thank you, ambassador. It's been my pleasure. What a refreshing
Speaker 1: change of perspective to see the world from the depths
Speaker 1: of the ocean thanks to Kelly thennoy Bird. There are
Speaker 1: three things I took from that conversation. First, Kelly's work
Speaker 1: shows how interrelated and interdependent we all are, from the
Speaker 1: tiniest creatures in the ocean to the biggest mammals on Earth.
Speaker 1: Every form of life has a role to play, and
Speaker 1: what happens to them can affect our food supply and
Speaker 1: our environment. Second, Kelly reminds us why it's so important
Speaker 1: to have a women's point of view and science to
Speaker 1: bring in different ways of seeing problems and solutions, and
Speaker 1: why mentors are so crucial for women getting into the field. Finally,
Speaker 1: Kelly cautions us not to give into pessimism despite all
Speaker 1: the dire reports of out climate change. The most important
Speaker 1: thing we can do, she says, is to use our
Speaker 1: voices through voting and sharing our opinions with elected officials
Speaker 1: and with everyone we know. Tune in next week to
Speaker 1: hear about our next featured woman and discover why she's
Speaker 1: one of Seneca's Women to Hear. Seneca's one hundred Women
Speaker 1: to Hear is a collaboration between the Seneca Women Podcast
Speaker 1: Network and I Heart Radio, with support from founding partner PNG.
Speaker 1: Have a great day.