WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Centaur on Fire 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.280 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:11.200 My Heart Radio. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:15.640 Listener mail. My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.800 And here we are bringing you some of the messages 0:00:17.840 --> 0:00:20.239 you've sent us over the past couple of weeks. Rob, 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:22.080 if you're ready, I think we can jump right in. 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:29.520 Let's see. Uh. Do you mind if I read this 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.520 one from Kate about our navigation episodes? Make it so 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.680 so in our three part are on Pacific Island navigation. Uh. 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.479 One thing we asked for was if any listeners had 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.319 experienced themselves with sailing, if they had thoughts about it. Uh. 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:45.640 And so we did hear from someone. Kate wrote in 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.720 to say hello, Robert, Joe, and Seth. I'm writing in 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.879 today in regards to the navigation episodes. I have multiple 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:54.040 reasons this episode hit home, but I will try to 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:57.040 keep it brief. First, I have the book you referenced 0:00:57.040 --> 0:00:59.880 throughout the series and it is next on my reading list. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:03.600 She's talking about We the Navigators by David Lewis um. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.480 But then second, I am a licensed day skipper small 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.520 sailboats and also lived on a tall ship for five 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:14.280 months and crossed the Atlantic. During this crossing, the second 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:17.600 mate on board offered the opportunity to learn to navigate 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.640 by the stars, and no one else took advantage of it, 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:23.279 which was good in that it allowed me a solo 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.080 course for our twenty one day crossing, but also may 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.399 say something of people's disinterest in something they don't directly require. 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:33.399 The other thing I wanted to mention was that although 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.360 there may have been specialized navigators, there would have been 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.600 a massive amount of knowledge of the sea that would 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:41.600 have been as commonplace as our understanding of a stop 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.280 sign within today's society. The decline of this knowledge it 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.320 could be compared to even fifty years ago, when the 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:51.160 majority of people were able to keep a decent sense 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.080 of direction in the bush, or at least enough knowledge 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.960 to stay on a path that they wouldn't get lost on, 0:01:57.320 --> 0:02:00.120 even if it wasn't a very noticeable path. Now out 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.600 with the urbanization of humanity, there's considerably less common knowledge 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:07.120 about bushcraft. It takes very little time for this information 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:09.960 to be lost to a culture. Anyways, I really enjoy 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:12.160 your shows, and my long drives to work are much 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:14.600 more enjoyable when I have something to occupy my mind. 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.519 Hope you're all well, Kate. Uh, thanks Kate, And yeah, 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:20.600 one thing you say in here that I think is 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:23.600 absolutely true and that sort of comes through in uh 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.519 in in Lewis's book, is that knowledge is a is 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.560 a fragile thing, especially if you don't have a written 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:31.320 culture like knowledge. In an oral culture, it could take 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:35.480 hundreds of years maybe to build up this this vast 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.680 store of wisdom and lore that's communicated from generation to generation. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:43.120 But if you don't have like written sources of it, 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.919 it could easily be lost in just one generation. Yeah. Absolutely, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.040 I mean, even of course in a in a written 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.200 culture and in modern culture, there is still the risk 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.079 of slipping into another dark age. And of course writers 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.520 have been um, I've been discussing this are pretty much 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.720 as as long as as we've been out of the 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:07.400 dark ages. Um, So it's always worth keeping in mind. Now, 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.679 I like what the what Kate shared about about knowledge 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:17.680 of of of the bush Bushcraft. This reminds me of 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.040 our discussions I'm getting Lost in the Woods. I can't 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.760 recall that those were stand different episodes or that was 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.359 part of our look at the leshy. Oh I think, yeah, 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:27.840 it was in the lesson and some follow up stuff 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.120 we did about the less Yeah, but just the idea 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:34.240 that that if you don't know anything about the woods, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:36.839 if you're just you've just stuck to the path, you 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:39.520 might well think that you can get off the path 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.520 and easily return, that your sense of direction will will 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.200 guide you and it will be something you can trust. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.440 And as we discussed in that episode, experiments have shown 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:52.960 that humans do not have that innate ability. Um, if 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.800 you if you don't know what you're doing, leaving the 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:58.560 path can be fatal. Yes, and of course that varies 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.880 a lot with like individual skill in the local terrain. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.440 You know, some places are easier to get lost than others. 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:06.280 But there are these stories, uh that we did discuss 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:08.400 in the least the episode about Yeah, people go, you know, 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.960 they think they're just going ten or twenty feet off 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:13.280 the path to go to the bathroom and then suddenly 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:15.160 like they have no idea where they are and they 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.040 can't find the path again. So I'd say that, together 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:22.240 with the Pacific Navigation episodes, just should make you to 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:26.719 to keep in mind appreciate direction finding and appreciate the 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.760 tools and the resources you have. Appreciate the skills people 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.000 have in that area. It's it's very valuable, and this 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:39.960 something we often take for granted. Absolutely all right, This 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.880 next one comes to us from ian Ian Ritson and says, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.040 Dear Rob and Joe, I am still writing in about 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.520 robot punishment, despite it having been a couple of weeks 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.600 since I listened to it. In that episode, you mentioned 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:54.039 in passing that humans often have less conscious control of 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.440 our actions than we like to believe. This has come 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:58.680 up in other episodes as well, specifically the one you 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:02.279 did about how our choices effect our preferences instead of 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.400 the other way around. I meditate daily, a practice that, 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.360 among other things, can be looked at as a way 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:10.120 to gain more conscious control of your actions, emotions, and 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.039 even your thoughts. Of course, this is easier said than done. 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.000 I wrote most of this email in my head this 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.520 morning while attempting to clear my mind of all thoughts 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:21.440 I've certainly been there. It's got me thinking about the 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.400 rider and the horse analogy and the criticism that this 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.719 view separates the mind and body in a way that 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:31.080 isn't justified. We are inherently embodied beings. You've also discussed 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:33.480 this idea, which I believe with that. I believe Rob 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.400 saying we are more like a centaur, which I like. However, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.880 I wonder if it isn't more apt than we give 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.160 it credit for. The common way the analogy is explained 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.200 is that people think of the mind as a rider 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:47.320 in command of a horse the body, but considered that 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:49.520 in reality, a human rider isn't actually in command of 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.320 the horse they're riding. As much as they might like 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.760 to think they are sound familiar, a human is not 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.240 strong enough to actually make the horse do anything it 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.719 doesn't want to do. All the human can do is 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:03.080 create incentives and disincentives to try to encourage the horse 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.880 to behave in the way the human desires. But ultimately 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.120 it is still the horse that is deciding what it 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.720 will do. And this is I think this is a 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:17.000 valid point. And certainly uh in meditation and meditative practices, Uh, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.040 sometimes your body is a bit barn sour, you know. Uh, 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.760 sometimes it's in a bit too much of a hurry 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.560 uh to get out of the wilds and back to uh, 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:28.960 you know, the sweet hay of the barn. Anyway, Ian continues, 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.679 even though our consciousness isn't in charge of our actions 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.240 like we think it is, and it's mostly post facto explanation. 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:39.520 Perhaps it evolved as an incentive system to train our 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.160 other mental processes. For instance, it may be my emotions 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.479 and other lower mental processes that determine whether I have 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.600 that second piece of cake, but maybe those are influenced 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:52.159 by my conscious thoughts, or at least the conscious thoughts 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.800 I've had in the past. Perhaps my doctor has told 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.760 me I need to cut back on sugar, but at 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.919 the last birthday party I decided to have a second 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.159 piece of cake anyway, and then, upon reflection, felt guilt 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.839 about having done so, which changes the emotional calculus this time. 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:09.440 As you've mentioned before, evolution is stingy and expensive. Things 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.520 like mental processes don't tend to stick around unless they 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.679 serve a purpose. Perhaps this is that purpose. So maybe 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.240 the horse and rider idea isn't so bad after all, 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:21.559 we're just drawing the line in the wrong place. Maybe 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.800 instead of the rider being the mind and the horse 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.480 being the body, the rider is our consciousness and the 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.880 horses the rest of our mental, emotional, and bodily processes. 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.080 The rider thinks they're in charge, but really they're just 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.720 one influence on the horse among many as an aside, 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.800 this brings up another way this analogy works well, the 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:44.000 feeling of loss of control when very upset. I'm sure 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.520 we all have experienced being so upset that we act 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:50.480 entirely on our emotions while simultaneously experiencing the conscious part 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.800 of ourselves watching our actions and thinking stop, I shouldn't 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.440 be doing this, but being unable to actually stop ourselves. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.960 I suppose this would be akin to the horse buck 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:02.400 king and the rider not being able to do much 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.920 besides hold on. To go back to my original thoughts 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.880 about meditation, perhaps the way that helps us gain control 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.800 was by teaching us to be a horse whisper. We're 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.880 still without true control of the horse, but it helps 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:17.280 us be a heck of a lot better at motivating 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:21.400 it to do what we want. Ian Ian, I think 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:23.720 this is a fantastic analogy. I mean, and I think 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.640 there are, uh, there are truths to both methods here. 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.920 I mean, rob in your analogy of the centaur, you're 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.520 emphasizing that you can't make a clear distinction between the 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.640 brain and the body. The body influences the brain, of course, 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:38.600 the brain influences the body, but it goes the other 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.800 way too. You know, they're they're inherently connected, and trying 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.280 to think about them as like two separate things, uh 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.440 leads to some confusion. But I think Ian also has 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.000 a very good point here. Yeah, yeah, I I love 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.280 all of this, but also I can't help may be 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.920 reminded of the most recent episode of Weird House Cinema 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.120 where we discussed Spontaneous Combustion starring Brad Dorrif because that 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.360 is a that is, as we discussed, it's a film 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:07.120 about an individual who has trouble controlling his emotions, and 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:11.720 when his emotions are out of control, um, fire erupts 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:14.320 from his body, from the world around him, from bits 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:18.440 of technology, etcetera. And and he had he seems to 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.959 have very little, if if if any control over these 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.560 these flames, and the flames are indiscriminate and who and 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.200 what they burn. Uh So I feel like that is 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:31.240 kind of a proper analogy for for some of this 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.400 as well. You know, this idea of loss of control. Stop, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.200 I shouldn't be doing this because once the fire is out, 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.040 the fire does what fire does? It burns and um, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.959 and what can you do but watch very apt all 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.719 John Landises take note. Um, But I would also say that, um, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:51.160 I can see some merit to Ian's other points. So 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.040 Ian is uh I think sort of making a case 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.920 against epiphenomenalism. You know, So epiphenomenalism is one take on 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.160 the mind by the problem that would tend to say 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.640 that actually consciousness does nothing. I mean, consciousness exists and 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.520 it is. It is the part of your brain that 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.000 can reflect upon itself. But your brain could do everything 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.360 it does without being conscious. Consciousness is just some sort 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.920 of strange byproduct maybe that we don't understand, but it 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:24.560 doesn't actually have power over anything, and epiphenomenalism would be 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.560 something that's difficult to demonstrate. But but here I think 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.640 Ian is sort of equating consciousness with having some kind 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:36.360 of reinforcing power on the metacognition of the brain in 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.839 order to influence future the future behavior of the brain, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.800 saying that the consciousness actually does play this role in metacognition, 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.720 that that helps us better rain in our own mental processes. 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:51.120 And I guess that's possible, but it's hard to know. 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.160 I can't recall who's written like this before, but I 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.600 know I have encountered this idea that in some ways 0:10:56.640 --> 0:11:03.200 basically sees uh consciousness as necessary to or coextensive with metacognition, 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:08.079 so it remains an open question. Is the human mental condition? 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:09.679 Is it a is it a centaur? Is it a 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.800 rider on a horse? Is it a character actor on fire? 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.320 Is it a satyr? I don't know. You can go 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:24.720 in various directions, all right, Oh, and so also apologies 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.480 to and I had to make some abridgements to the 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.600 previous email for length. Apologies to the next writer because Sean. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.240 I also had to make some abridgements to this email 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.480 as well. I'm sure you'll understand. But Sean writes to 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.599 us about sorry. I was just thinking, we've we've we 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.760 telled everybody not to not to say they sorry for 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.080 writing a long email, but now we're apologizing for a 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.840 carving uploo emails. Well, okay, No, So I don't usually 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:50.920 mention if I just cut out like a line here 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.800 or there at the beginning or end, that's just sort 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.160 of introductory material or whatever. But if I have to, 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.400 if I have to chop out like huge paragraphs or something, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.559 I might note it just just so the writer doesn't 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:05.679 believe I missed it by accident. But maybe me saying 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.199 this now means I won't have to say it in 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.600 the future. Yeah. Sometimes, folks, I'm just gonna have to 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.600 edit emails down a bit anyway. Uh, thank you very much, Ian, 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.160 And then Sean gets in touch with us about finger 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.160 counting and free San. Sean says, Hi, Joe, Robert, and Seth. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.840 Someone might have written in to tell you this already, 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.960 but I have a method of counting to thirty three. 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.240 On one hand, I first learned this method from my 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:31.600 late father in law, who was teaching me how to 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:35.160 make thicker. Um. Well, okay, so the word here is 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.880 spelled d h i k r or d h i 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:42.199 k i r. I've heard it pronounced thicker before, um, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.680 but Sean gives a pronunciation guide in which he says 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.360 to pronounce it thick keer, which might be like a 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.480 regional language variation. I'm not sure. But but since, uh, 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.120 since Sean gives that, I'm going to say the keyer 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.240 instead of thicker for the rest of the email. So 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.360 uh in thick ear here, which is in his Lamic 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:03.520 practice of praying, Sean says, the first time he showed 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.760 me how to count this way. On one hand, I 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.440 nodded along, but really it took a long time before 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:12.199 I understood. I'll try to describe the method. Imagine each 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.959 finger split into four sections. The fingertip, then each crease 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.520 where there is a joint. By placing your thumb before 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:23.600 the first joint crease of a finger, you can count 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:28.080 to one, then after that same crease makes two. Continue 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:31.240 up the finger, counting up one both before and after 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:35.319 each crease, finally counting one when you reach the fingertip. 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600 This makes a total of account of seven for each finger. 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.120 You can do the same with the index finger on 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.160 the thumb, counting to a total of five. As there 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.280 are only two joint creases in the thumb, four times 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.000 seven plus five makes a total of thirty three for 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:54.400 one hand. This is useful for the gear as each 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.160 mantra should be said thirty three times. However, I can't 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.840 imagine many other situations and what you need to count 0:14:00.840 --> 0:14:03.440 to a base thirty three. I'm sure if one has 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.640 been learning to count this way since childhood it would 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.319 be easier to remember. But after learning this method as 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.040 a second language, I doubt I'll ever be able to 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.800 master it for day to day needs. Technically, with mastery 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.720 of this counting method, you could count these single digits 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.600 on one hand up to thirty three, then count orders 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.640 of magnitude on the other hand, again up to thirty three. 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:27.000 So theoretically one could count up to one thousand, eighty 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:32.640 nine or thirty three times thirty three with just two hands. Absolutely, 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.680 I've never heard about this before, But then Sean goes on. 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.480 Sean says, changing topic. I wanted to offer my experience 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.560 of Freesan. I noticed while listening to an episode of 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.280 Listener Mail that you were talking about the backing vocals 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.000 of Gimme Shelter, and I experienced a wave of goose bumps. 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.240 I first heard these particular vocals in the original Freesan 0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:55.440 episode and they triggered Freesan in me, but it was 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.480 unexpected that a mere description of the vocals would trigger 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.040 it too. I often experienced musical free song, as well 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.720 as a similar sensation in emotional movies or podcasts, and 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.840 sometimes while just thinking about an emotional story or movie 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:12.800 scene all the best Sean. Now, that does make me 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:18.600 wonder when Sean is is thinking about these particular musical bits, 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:23.000 are they playing out in their head? You know? Because 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:24.920 I find that like that's the case for me, like 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:29.120 if if someone was to mention say, um, like the 0:15:29.120 --> 0:15:32.080 the very opening of Radioheads everything in its right place 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.520 or um, you know, or to or to say, hey, 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:39.840 how about that really that really uh dramatic part of 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.200 Carmina barana um which I know which which dramatic part, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.200 but um, but like if if there's enough of a 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.600 of a hook there, then I will I do replay 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.360 it in my mind and then I can certainly feel 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.320 a certain amount of chills, you know, I can experience 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:58.680 goose bumps if it is the right song. Yeah, parts 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.160 of le miss for me, I will do that. Yeah, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.680 I'm not sorry, no, no, lately, this is a good music. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.200 I got to see it once. It had the big 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:13.080 the big wheel stage. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you know 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.920 that actually powers the the whole the whole theater. It's 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.520 just the pure acting energy of the of the of 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:22.960 the cast and crew. They've got a little gavroche on 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:34.600 a hamster wheel. Yeah all right. Here's one from Taylor 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.040 and this has to comes to the response to our 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:40.640 episode on Queuing Robert and Joe. Great episode on waiting. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.120 It finally prompted me to write. After years listing uh 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.800 consistently since the how stuff works days. In the Waiting episodes, 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.000 I'd be curious to hear more of our tendency to 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.240 wait or follow orderly lines when there is no line 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.880 or correct order. For example, in New York City, when 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.320 hailing a cab, there's always the situation where a cab 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.760 can pull over, but it takes time for it to stop, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.680 so he overshoots you by a few feet. Innately, people 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.080 understand that the cab pulled over for me from the 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.000 line of I was earlier in the streets, so he 0:17:10.040 --> 0:17:12.960 saw me, even if they may be closer to where 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.560 he finally stopped. So we make a line of where 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:17.800 you are in the street, even though there isn't an 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:22.000 actual line. I think I understand that you should prove 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.880 this nuance. How we innately create unwritten laws by labeling 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.640 the show the Waiting Part four, only to a week 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.280 later have a the Waiting Part three for thirty seconds 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.680 when you point out many people probably waited patiently for 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.880 a part three before listening to part four, because that's 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:43.200 what people do. Great show, Taylor, I love these this 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:46.359 guidance on how to screw with listeners heads. Yeah, I 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:48.640 would do. I feel like we're doing enough of that, 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.919 um um without trying to So I don't know if 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.679 we need to to orchestrate anything to sinister here the Taylor. 0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:59.280 I do think that's interesting about the understanding of the 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.200 unspoken queuing rules for for cabs on the New York 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:06.520 City streets, especially since there is this there's this uh 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:10.520 cultural meme or reputation for like people in New York 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:13.240 being like rude and pushy and selfish and just trying 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.120 to get ahead of everything. Um. I mean, for one thing, 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.000 we saw plenty of opposition to that in those Stanley 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.760 Milgram experiments which were carried out in New York City 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.560 or at least around the New York City area. But 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:27.520 but also I think that's, you know, to whatever extent 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.680 that's true, it clearly doesn't extend to people not obeying 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.520 lines like you know, lines dominate even when everybody's really 0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.040 got to get a cab. Yeah, I mean, if things 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:37.480 get too out of hand out, what we're gonna have 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.600 to do is just make everybody roll for initiative. That's 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.480 just the only way to handle it. Let's get those 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:45.560 dexterity uh rolls out here. Let's let's see what we 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:48.679 get on a d twenty and we will rank everybody accordingly, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:56.399 and you will know exactly what order you go in. Alright. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.879 This next listener wanted to remain anonymous, but they write 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.800 in concerning queuing at a place where where I have 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:06.120 experienced some of the most nerve racking lines and wait 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.200 times ever, which is at border crossing checkpoints. You ever 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.159 have this experience, rob Um, Yeah, I mean going through 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.280 customs at the airport. That's that kind of thing. Yeah. So, 0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.280 this anonymous listener says, I currently live in Chula Vista, California, 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.440 and I crossed almost religiously to Tijuana for family and business. 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.439 One of the biggest fight starters that always happens at 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.760 the border are those who cut in line via car 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.600 or foot. Fights and arrests happen weekly, especially people who 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.280 cross without appropriate documentations such as spring breakers or weekend drunks. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.520 There are people who cross daily because of work or school, 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.399 and there's always people who don't respect the line, And 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.000 when you least expected, a fight breaks out and the 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:49.200 cops show up, and then the border has to close 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.159 for a while until everything is calmed down. People are 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.000 always in a rush. There aren't enough CBP officers and 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:57.760 the lines have taken from two minutes to four hours 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.600 on foot and ten minutes to ten wors via car. Uh. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.200 This is through my own experience crossing through the port 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.760 at Santa Cedro. Thanks for taking the time to read 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.720 my email. Uh and man this one well, thank you 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.520 for getting in touch. But also this one makes me 0:20:12.560 --> 0:20:15.560 think about some of the downsides of the single file 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.879 queuing for access to things where they're like wildly different 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.080 stakes for different cures. So you have somebody like the 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.920 person writing in or here, who probably has to cross 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.720 the border frequently, maybe every day for work and family 0:20:29.880 --> 0:20:31.960 and stuff like that, and then at the same time, 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.800 like the same cues are being shared by like drunk 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.600 tourists who are just partying. I can't believe it didn't 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.560 bring us up. But this reminds me of a form 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.760 of queuing that I have really appreciated in the I 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.479 guess few establishments that I found it integrated. And that 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:50.159 is the idea of having two lines that I know 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:52.800 what I want line and the I need some helpline 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.480 um that's smart, that can that can really strange and 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:58.600 move things along. You know, if you know exactly what 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.120 you're getting, let's going back to our bagel sandwich analogy. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.119 If you just know you're getting the number three, no 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:07.199 changes whatever, then then yeah, let's have a line for 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.320 those people. But if you need to enquire about about 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.119 changes to the menu, about about the ingredients, if you 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.840 need some guidance on which bagel sandwich to order, then yes, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.280 let's have a separate line for that, and we can 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:23.720 have a specialized teller that deals with with those clientele. Yeah. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.159 I mean it may be the case that some border 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.760 border checkpoints have something like this. I don't know, but 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:30.920 I mean, if they don't, you should find a way 0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:33.920