Speaker 1: Hey, it's fifty cent and I'm Charlie Webster, host of
Speaker 1: Surviving l Chapo, the Twins who brought down a drug lord.
Speaker 1: Make sure you listen to the catch up so you're
Speaker 1: up to date with what happened in season one.
Speaker 2: If you haven't listened to season one with you been,
Speaker 2: go back and listen.
Speaker 1: The story is chronological and follows on from season two.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to take you on the second part
Speaker 1: of this ride. We're going to jump straight in where
Speaker 1: we left off.
Speaker 3: And when I saw the cards and like all the
Speaker 3: agents in marshals.
Speaker 4: Just like staring at us.
Speaker 3: I think it was the first time I ever felt like,
Speaker 3: holy shit, I'm.
Speaker 4: Not just a drug dealer right.
Speaker 3: My whole time, even though like you might hear me
Speaker 3: say it now, like oh, that was the biggest drug deer.
Speaker 4: I had no idea that I was. To me, I
Speaker 4: was just telling.
Speaker 5: Drugs when you look at it from on the outskirts,
Speaker 5: because just in perspective, you can't even fathom what that's.
Speaker 4: That's like I was just doing what they did. Why
Speaker 4: are they here?
Speaker 3: Like you know what I mean, Like it's just us
Speaker 3: like but it was like reality. It was hard to
Speaker 3: like take all that in it and not having a
Speaker 3: chance to deal with your emotional it was really difficult.
Speaker 1: This is Surviving our chapter It's Twins who Brought Down
Speaker 1: a Trouble Old season two.
Speaker 2: It's fifteen, Charlie with you again.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to Surviving ol chop or The Twins who
Speaker 5: brought Down the Drug Law Season two. After a twenty
Speaker 5: year long career in the drug trade, the Flores twins
Speaker 5: Peter and Jay decided it was time to turn their
Speaker 5: lives around.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't going to come easy.
Speaker 5: This is real. They were deep into the cartel. Old
Speaker 5: Chopol was like family today. They were caught between the
Speaker 5: cartel on one side and the actual family or another.
Speaker 5: Getting out of the life meant that huge betrayal to
Speaker 5: everything they'd ever known and turning against the man who
Speaker 5: was the only reason they were both still alive in
Speaker 5: the first place. It was Chopo that stopped peace execution
Speaker 5: and who kept the entire family safe.
Speaker 1: It took eight months of secret recordings working with the
Speaker 1: US government to bring Chapeo down by recording him on
Speaker 1: a wire tap. Pete and Jay turned over the recording
Speaker 1: to the government and handed themselves in ready to take
Speaker 1: the next step in turning their life around.
Speaker 5: We left you in season one with Pete and j
Speaker 5: shackle and landing in the US to a load the
Speaker 5: police and federal agents.
Speaker 1: While the brothers were on their way out of Mexico
Speaker 1: on a US government private jet, their wives and the
Speaker 1: rest of the family had to make their own way
Speaker 1: out of the country. Viv, Val, Pete and J's brother Armando,
Speaker 1: the twins, mother and father, and all the children were
Speaker 1: left to drive eight hours through enemy territory, across the
Speaker 1: US border and into relative safety. Just a reminder that
Speaker 1: we're not going to identify which brother is speaking each time,
Speaker 1: but I'm sure by now you've got to know them.
Speaker 6: Jay is a little lighter and happy go lucky.
Speaker 1: Heat tends to be serious and more of a realist.
Speaker 1: Jay is married to Val and at this point they
Speaker 1: have two boys, one just a newborn baby. Heat is
Speaker 1: married to Viv. They also have a newborn baby, a girl.
Speaker 3: It was a big deal when we came back, like
Speaker 3: they had all kinds of marshals and swat team.
Speaker 4: To bombard as questions.
Speaker 3: There's a couple of people talking and a lot of faces,
Speaker 3: and I seen his man. He's kind of tall. He
Speaker 3: has a briefcase and I automatically ain't know, like, oh,
Speaker 3: that's the use of attorney. And we went into the
Speaker 3: They have a business lobby, so they have a big
Speaker 3: conference room, and we went in there and a few
Speaker 3: of the agents, including the agent, the DA agent Marsh
Speaker 3: I think he was from our original cas is there
Speaker 3: and we get on the call with our attorney and
Speaker 3: the US Attorney's office from Chicago, and basically they're like, Okay, guys,
Speaker 3: you know your family's across the borders or and now
Speaker 3: you guys are here and use guys been cooperating, you know,
Speaker 3: for Mexico, but now it's time for you guys to
Speaker 3: finish doing your job. And I'm really, huh, you don't
Speaker 3: have to finish during your job, and that means it
Speaker 3: we need you incorporating against all your customers based in
Speaker 3: the United States. I was like, oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 4: Hell no, we're not doing that. We're not doing that.
Speaker 4: Everyone looked like what.
Speaker 3: And I remember my turning with like, hold on, hold on,
Speaker 3: I need to speak to my clients. I need to
Speaker 3: fink my clients in private, Like nah, that's the post
Speaker 3: you like, because I felt like we just cooperated for nothing,
Speaker 3: like we have nothing, like where's our end?
Speaker 4: Just reis my life?
Speaker 3: I'm here by the bras of God, like, but now
Speaker 3: where's like you're asking me corporated with Where's like? What
Speaker 3: was my benefit?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: What am I getting? You're asking me to now turn
Speaker 3: on my customers.
Speaker 1: As far as the twins were concerned, the deal was
Speaker 1: to get El Chapo on tape, serve a few years
Speaker 1: in prison, and be free to start a completely new life.
Speaker 1: All their conversations with the government so far have been
Speaker 1: purely focused on El Chapo, but the government had other ideas.
Speaker 1: J and P would now have to turn in everybody
Speaker 1: they've ever dealt with, workers, customers, and even their friends
Speaker 1: if they were ever going to have any chance at freedom.
Speaker 3: The prosecutor gets on the phone and the other prosecutors
Speaker 3: just looking at something basically says, guys, to work.
Speaker 4: It's gonna be all or nothing. You don't get to
Speaker 4: the side.
Speaker 7: How did that make you feel?
Speaker 4: I felt like that hurt, that felt trapped.
Speaker 8: Like I felt stupid for sure, And at that moment,
Speaker 8: that's how I felt like what I was angry?
Speaker 9: I just.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just said it was that moment it
Speaker 3: was those like those initial moments where I felt like
Speaker 3: I was angry to use a turn off. I felt
Speaker 3: like it was a trap to me and I felt
Speaker 3: like I hadn't got nothing in return and.
Speaker 4: To them, and they're like, oh, you're a diructed what
Speaker 4: you respect. You're getting a chance.
Speaker 3: And to me, I'm like, I'm risking my life every
Speaker 3: day forgiving you what you asked me for.
Speaker 4: You didn't ask for that.
Speaker 3: You said that you wanted this, We offered, We put
Speaker 3: everything on the table, and that's what you wanted. And
Speaker 3: that's not just trait works. So basically he said, listen,
Speaker 3: it's all or nothing. If you guys want to decided,
Speaker 3: you would change your mind and you want to spend
Speaker 3: the rest of your life in prison for all your
Speaker 3: customers are gonna end up cooperating against you anyway, like
Speaker 3: they are. Now that's up to you, you guys think
Speaker 3: about it. And when he said that, was like, kind
Speaker 3: I had a point there, you know.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 3: I do remember asking could we do anything about this?
Speaker 3: And he's like, you don't get to pick and choose.
Speaker 3: Chase doesn't work that way. Now you go do the
Speaker 3: right thing. Remember what got your hair?
Speaker 4: You don't put no one in front of your family,
Speaker 4: and he was right.
Speaker 3: I didn't want to be the responsible person for that,
Speaker 3: like I guess, you know, like I didn't wanna be
Speaker 3: responsible for everyone's life changing.
Speaker 4: I just wanna be responsible for my life changing, right like.
Speaker 4: And I think that it's just it was a lot,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: That night they wanted to do uh what you call
Speaker 3: control deliveries, so you'd call, you know, a call a
Speaker 3: customer and tell ma'mas and go kill 'em drugs and
Speaker 3: they're arrest 'em. But there was too much to do
Speaker 3: in them a few hours, like to be sitting there
Speaker 3: and it was getting lad to finding they they we
Speaker 3: made a couple of calls and that was her fault
Speaker 3: for them to be sitting in front of you, like here,
Speaker 3: make the call, call this person and they're sitting in
Speaker 3: front of you. And we had to lie, and we
Speaker 3: had to call customers that we had for many years
Speaker 3: and be like and basically settlement.
Speaker 7: So it could be arrested.
Speaker 9: M H.
Speaker 7: How did that feel?
Speaker 4: It's like.
Speaker 3: It's gonna be one of those define moments a team
Speaker 3: in my life where you know, there was really high
Speaker 3: highs and really low loads we made up eat a
Speaker 3: few of those calls, and it was getting late in
Speaker 3: the night and they decided that we were.
Speaker 4: Gonna end there. The team remember Belt, like, I just
Speaker 4: can't believe just what we did.
Speaker 1: The first off was Kenosha County Jail in Wisconsin and
Speaker 1: a change in identity for protection, they could no longer
Speaker 1: use or be referred to by their real names.
Speaker 3: It took us to a county jail, to Kenosha County Jail,
Speaker 3: and that's when reality was and start standing in a
Speaker 3: little bit. Took us and uh, they changed their name,
Speaker 3: they changed their name, and they gave us the last
Speaker 3: name for Maris. My name was gonna be Mark Ramers
Speaker 3: and Peter was Quant Rumors. And in Kenosha there's a
Speaker 3: federally like a federal holdover, and uh, this is a
Speaker 3: county jail. They made us change and you know the
Speaker 3: thirty years, they give you orange socks with wholes in
Speaker 3: them and slippers, shower shows, and they put us in
Speaker 3: a in this one unit, it's like down twenty three
Speaker 3: hours a day. And uh, I remember walking seeing the
Speaker 3: phone like, am I gonna be able to use phone? Yeah,
Speaker 3: when it's your turn. So basically that one person out
Speaker 3: an hour a day just in that little unit.
Speaker 4: So they go down the l down the line.
Speaker 3: So I remember just observing, like I'm asking questions.
Speaker 4: People were like, oh, where are you from? You know,
Speaker 4: asking those questions.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess that some of them are cooperator as well,
Speaker 3: cause they're they're there, and it looks like they've been
Speaker 3: there for a long time too, cause they're settled in in.
Speaker 4: This ugly place.
Speaker 3: The doors steel wire crisscross kind of a through their
Speaker 3: seat through so and like you get privacy. They can
Speaker 3: see right through your and it's just old. Everything's old.
Speaker 7: And yes, the door on the shut it's so wired.
Speaker 3: It's like a you know, it has a like almost
Speaker 3: like a gate on it stealav.
Speaker 4: And they it's separated. So they put my brother in one.
Speaker 3: It's one bad one bunk and they put my brother
Speaker 3: in one. They put me in the other. I remember
Speaker 3: me and brother's like like Jay, like don't go to sleep.
Speaker 3: So we uh the doors like here, and I basically
Speaker 3: just sat down on the door and.
Speaker 4: He sat down in the door. So you lean against
Speaker 4: it against the door and we're just talking. We don't
Speaker 4: have to talk a lot because you know, it's.
Speaker 7: Open, you're right next to each of them, and just.
Speaker 4: I remember it.
Speaker 3: Just I was like, what did we do? And she's like,
Speaker 3: you know, wondering about our family. That's gonna be like
Speaker 3: the beginning of the stress of wondering.
Speaker 4: Are they okay? I have the kids, okay, I wonder
Speaker 4: what they're doing.
Speaker 3: I want you know, I think anybody in prison always
Speaker 3: thinks about those things at this very moment, you know.
Speaker 4: And we didn't sleep. They bring breakfast like a fight
Speaker 4: during in the morning. It was terrible. It was like
Speaker 4: rits and who knows what we we didn't need.
Speaker 3: I don't think me and my brother didn't eat, probably
Speaker 3: for the next five days, and.
Speaker 4: We would drink like water something or juice.
Speaker 3: And I probably lost those first two weeks, probably lost
Speaker 3: thirty pounds.
Speaker 1: After a brief stay in Kenosha, Pete and Jay, now
Speaker 1: under a different alias, were moved to the Metropolitan Correctional
Speaker 1: Center in Chicago, sixty two miles away.
Speaker 3: The team came first, and you know, they took us
Speaker 3: to Chicago. It was a caravan, like a big caravan
Speaker 3: of Marshalls. That's gonna be the normal from that point.
Speaker 3: And they take me to together what you just.
Speaker 4: It's me and my brother.
Speaker 3: Yeah, together, we're like a a special hold where we
Speaker 3: have a three men hold. So it said one lieutenant
Speaker 3: and two officers every time we get moved, so that
Speaker 3: mean that there's me and my brother. So at first
Speaker 3: it was hard because they needed two lieutenants, you know,
Speaker 3: four officers, and we're talking on a place that doesn't
Speaker 3: have that many guards. So it didn't take long before
Speaker 3: we couldn't start being o paining their asses. They take
Speaker 3: us to use the training's office, put us in a
Speaker 3: conference room, and that's why. Actually first for the first time,
Speaker 3: I meet Thomas Shaksha, I meet Michael Ferar, who are
Speaker 3: gonna be the lead. It was a training in the case.
Speaker 3: I meet the agents that we've been speaking to. That's
Speaker 3: Eric Doronte, who was the agent in charge of the case.
Speaker 4: We meet Tim Janelli.
Speaker 1: The twins were now face to face with the government
Speaker 1: team behind the l Chapo case, the people who would
Speaker 1: ultimately decide the twins' future. Sam Janelle was the first
Speaker 1: agent Pete and Jay ever spoke to. If you remember,
Speaker 1: it was back in that sixteen person shower that they
Speaker 1: had in Mexico. Janelle worked alongside Eric Durante, the DA's
Speaker 1: special agent assigned to the case, who had also been
Speaker 1: working on it from the beginning. With them were the
Speaker 1: assistant US attorneys, Michael Ferrara and Thomas Shakeshaft.
Speaker 6: Shake Shaft was the lead prosecutor.
Speaker 1: He first met Pete in that secret hotel room meeting
Speaker 1: back in Mexico.
Speaker 6: That started everything.
Speaker 3: They're my attorneys there, they need us, probably talked for
Speaker 3: twenty minutes and then they're like, we need you to
Speaker 3: continue on with this corporation.
Speaker 4: We started working.
Speaker 3: And going into a grand jury to in day chapel that.
Speaker 4: Day, and me and my brother got it.
Speaker 3: That's what they want from us, Like, that was our
Speaker 3: bargaining to us, and that's.
Speaker 4: The first thing that they want. Can they basically.
Speaker 3: You know when they took our phones from us, what happened,
Speaker 3: whether people were calling their phone and the ages are
Speaker 3: there sending back messages pretending to be yeah, like basically
Speaker 3: like oh listen, so and so been calling.
Speaker 4: He said he needs twenty five keys.
Speaker 1: Cooperating isn't what you might expect. It doesn't stop happening
Speaker 1: just because you go to prison. At this point, the
Speaker 1: twins had no idea that this would carry on for years,
Speaker 1: and so the US government could put El Chapo behind bars.
Speaker 6: For the first eight months, it.
Speaker 1: Was all day, every single day, calling and setting up
Speaker 1: their customers and friends.
Speaker 3: I do feel responsible for like making decisions for a
Speaker 3: lot of people, like not just my family, I made
Speaker 3: a decision for a lot of people that went to jail.
Speaker 7: How many people went to jail because of what you did,
Speaker 7: Like how many roughly.
Speaker 4: I want to sit in totally over one hundred people
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 1: When they were finished for the day, they would head
Speaker 1: back in a big convoy to mcc Chicago. MCC Chicago
Speaker 1: is not what you might think a normal prison looks like.
Speaker 1: It's a skyscraper in the middle of the city. It's
Speaker 1: one big triangle designed that way to be easier to
Speaker 1: keep an eye on everyone. The roof of the giant
Speaker 1: triangle is used as the recreation yard. While you're shooting hoops,
Speaker 1: you can kind of look out on the amazing views
Speaker 1: of downtown Chicago. It's used as a holding prison for
Speaker 1: those that have not yet been sentenced. Because of the
Speaker 1: danger of what the twins were doing. They couldn't simply
Speaker 1: be held with.
Speaker 6: All the other prisoners.
Speaker 1: They were a part of the WITSEC program, basically in
Speaker 1: prison witness protection, which meant they had to be kept
Speaker 1: in the SHU special housing unit known as the Shoe.
Speaker 6: The shoe is a bit like solitary confinement.
Speaker 1: Because they were helping the government, Pete and j were
Speaker 1: given a few special privileges. They were allowed to be
Speaker 1: together in the shoe.
Speaker 4: Walking to the shore, I was like, oh, of shit,
Speaker 4: like this is this is prison?
Speaker 2: Like what.
Speaker 3: There's like a little gay indigal bunch of self nor
Speaker 3: where it's like just hardway inter is a bunch of cells,
Speaker 3: these weird it's like a triangle and they have two
Speaker 3: sides and they take us to a back cell. It's
Speaker 3: two bucks and like it's ugly dirty, you know, paint chripping.
Speaker 3: It's so fucking cold.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 3: It was the first time. I think I really like
Speaker 3: took it in, like all the other things. So much
Speaker 3: going on. I remember they close chuckhold and we remember
Speaker 3: stands the orange.
Speaker 4: We just like look at each other. They're in shit
Speaker 4: in there, like yo, what the fuck do we do now?
Speaker 3: We're getting anxious, like no communication. We haven't talked to
Speaker 3: our family. I think our Lord told they're okay. They've
Speaker 3: been calling or something like that, but that wasn't good
Speaker 3: enough for us, Like, okay, what it was this I
Speaker 3: wanna tell you, like this torture in us, like we
Speaker 3: f say, if we draws of bones or withdraws of
Speaker 3: all are what we were used to for others. You're
Speaker 3: just now we're sitting in a fucking town. They were
Speaker 3: nothing in there.
Speaker 6: The life of a drug dealer is twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: And if you remember, Pete and j had fifty phones
Speaker 1: each constantly ringing. They were heavily involved in the day
Speaker 1: to day running of the business and made sure they
Speaker 1: never missed a phone call.
Speaker 4: You know, it's scary to hear phones ringing when they're
Speaker 4: not ringing, could you hear? Yeah, I think, And you
Speaker 4: know how messed up your brain.
Speaker 6: Getting in the quiet of a prison cell.
Speaker 1: Pete was still hearing phones ringing inside his head.
Speaker 3: The first night was like terrible, and it was a
Speaker 3: while before we even saw a guard, I think, and
Speaker 3: they'll come just looking and we're just like sitting there
Speaker 3: like like this fucking place is nasty. It was hard
Speaker 3: that first nights, talking about it is freezing. We have
Speaker 3: no blanket, we have nothing, you know, we have like
Speaker 3: a T shirt on, like a small T shirt and
Speaker 3: just a jump shore and we're freezing. I'm talking about
Speaker 3: like shaky. It has to be like forty degrees and
Speaker 3: we're shaky. Night there's icicles on the wall. They shut
Speaker 3: the lights off at ten o'clock and I remember you
Speaker 3: could see the roaches come out, just shining.
Speaker 4: Roaches or where they came early for us.
Speaker 3: The next day turned six, there's the marshals come for us,
Speaker 3: and they.
Speaker 4: Put it like you know, we go through the process.
Speaker 3: It will be like quite a few marshals and they'll
Speaker 3: they'll pick us up in like a bult of cud,
Speaker 3: take us down the back to the federal building.
Speaker 4: And that was kind of became a routine.
Speaker 1: So you basically we're in the shoe and then they
Speaker 1: transported you down the road to the federal building to.
Speaker 3: The federal building where we'd go and they start off
Speaker 3: like at a conference room or you know, an office
Speaker 3: and then they take you back to.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it will bring the laptop for us to like
Speaker 10: review whatever document, whatever the case is, and you have
Speaker 10: the battup.
Speaker 11: Then they end up starting to stop something. I was
Speaker 11: like doing something else to use to try allegiance I
Speaker 11: have a look. I've seen that they had windows open
Speaker 11: in the computer and I hit the window.
Speaker 4: You don't want me to say that story? What's woman?
Speaker 1: Don't forget Pete and j haven't seen each other much
Speaker 1: since they were in prison together, so there's occasionally some
Speaker 1: brotherly tension in the room. Some of this stuff is
Speaker 1: being spoken about between them for the very first time.
Speaker 1: It's Jay's wife file that you can hear in the background.
Speaker 4: I mean, you could story what I was saying. You
Speaker 4: went to the funding agents fucking for pure and hit window. Legion.
Speaker 12: You don't want to go be like, oh, you're manipulating
Speaker 12: the age you said in this fucking interview.
Speaker 4: Don't say that, but.
Speaker 2: Say a word.
Speaker 4: Computer I did.
Speaker 12: It's not for you to go through that's the crime.
Speaker 12: Come on, man, Yeah, it's part of the story. Is
Speaker 12: that seeing that parts not important? Okay, I'm just saying that.
Speaker 12: You don't want to open a cain of words over it.
Speaker 11: So yeah, you really were saying here talking about tons
Speaker 11: of drugs and that's gonna be all that's the issue.
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, hold on, let's go viborated that on.
Speaker 7: Tell us what you saw.
Speaker 13: You can open up issue part issue just one day
Speaker 13: you're going to a federal government ages for Windows computerity
Speaker 13: that you're staking around it.
Speaker 12: You could have changed information about something not but before
Speaker 12: it doesn't sit well, like I don't know you understand,
Speaker 12: I just chilling, just said, did.
Speaker 4: You basically see all the all the it's just information
Speaker 4: where it would tasty.
Speaker 7: It sounds like when you've been no it was your.
Speaker 13: Personal Please, they no right to a personal feeling, saying
Speaker 13: now you they had personal themes that they will be
Speaker 13: writing messages to each other email emails and saying he's
Speaker 13: fucking insulting.
Speaker 11: Yeah, if he's saying the agent and they're prosecute.
Speaker 1: The brothers didn't want to go into any more detail
Speaker 1: on the record, so I stopped the tape and we
Speaker 1: took a short break. We picked up the story with
Speaker 1: the twins back in the conference room cooperating with the
Speaker 1: agents in Chicago.
Speaker 4: It was the second day when when we had like
Speaker 4: a break.
Speaker 3: I remember the use attorney he said, so, I know, guys,
Speaker 3: like you know, up to this point, you know, you
Speaker 3: guys seemed like you guys are all right guys, and
Speaker 3: you know, over the time we've been talking a lot
Speaker 3: and being familiar with each other like you could.
Speaker 4: Feel it, but not everyone in this office feels that way.
Speaker 3: And I was like, huh, you're gonna, you know, we're
Speaker 3: gonna introduce you to some agents that I don't really like.
Speaker 3: You guys, so you know, just be patient and just
Speaker 3: like you know, they might be a little bit hard.
Speaker 4: And I remember that's when I first started.
Speaker 14: Just like.
Speaker 4: Hard what.
Speaker 3: Basically giving me a warning like they might not be nice.
Speaker 3: I'm get a ship, it's already bothered me.
Speaker 4: Here comes six.
Speaker 3: Seven ages walking in there, and I could see that
Speaker 3: they're they don't seem cool, they don't seem nice, I
Speaker 3: could see. And I guess they were mad at the
Speaker 3: case because they were people that were, you know, the
Speaker 3: time when I was cooperating, they're you know, they're doing investigation.
Speaker 4: They felt like it should have been their case.
Speaker 3: And you know, different ages got the case.
Speaker 4: I understand.
Speaker 3: I said, you guys have been like after us for
Speaker 3: a long time, right, kind of made a joke out
Speaker 3: of there, and now we're here, right, so I know
Speaker 3: you guys have like you guys could be upset, but
Speaker 3: you guys, you know, for a.
Speaker 4: Long time, you know, we were winning, but now you
Speaker 4: got us.
Speaker 3: You won we're here, We're here, We're gonna help you
Speaker 3: in you know, however we could help you. We're going
Speaker 3: to help you and just leave any personal shites to
Speaker 3: the side or whatever. They kind of just nodded their
Speaker 3: head in and then that's when I think we spoke
Speaker 3: up by said I'm going to help you guys.
Speaker 4: And now that we are just well, am I going
Speaker 4: to ask for one deep?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 4: What's that? I said? Saoul Rodriguez?
Speaker 1: Yes, that Saul, remember the one that kidnapped Pete in Chicago,
Speaker 1: Pete's first kidnapping. Saoul Rodriguez pretended to be a cop
Speaker 1: and took Pete into a basement where the floor was
Speaker 1: covered with plastic and there was that random parrot.
Speaker 3: When they just smiled, So roduis kidnapped? You kidnapped my brother.
Speaker 1: At the time, the brothers didn't retaliate against Seoul for
Speaker 1: kidnapping Pete, but they were finally able to get their revenge.
Speaker 1: Saul was one person they were more than happy to
Speaker 1: turn into the government.
Speaker 3: And he has a file on his hand and he
Speaker 3: just started freaking up pictures and my brother was able
Speaker 3: to identify everyone in the pictures, and that kind of
Speaker 3: just like I think can change their views a little bit.
Speaker 3: But it's gonna be like, this is gonna be a routine,
Speaker 3: you know, it's gonna go on for the next seven months.
Speaker 7: So for seven months you did that. What was it like?
Speaker 4: It wasn't easy.
Speaker 3: We had up and downs, you know, you know, and
Speaker 3: every day it was like it was just a reminder
Speaker 3: of like we're doing this, Like why are we doing this?
Speaker 3: How did we get here? And there was a lot
Speaker 3: of questions about our future every day probably and everything
Speaker 3: going on with our families. Don't forget they're picked up
Speaker 3: and you had to start all over and all these
Speaker 3: things going on.
Speaker 1: The tearful goodbye back in Mexico was the last time
Speaker 1: Pete and j had seen their families. All they knew
Speaker 1: was that they'd crossed the border into the US safely.
Speaker 1: While Pete and j were sat in a conference room
Speaker 1: in Chicago, Val and Pete's wife viv were stranded at
Speaker 1: the border with the rest of the family.
Speaker 6: They didn't know where their husbands were being held.
Speaker 1: The responsibility of what to do next and where to
Speaker 1: go fell on VAL's shoulders.
Speaker 9: We stood there hours at the border. Hours.
Speaker 4: It was already morning time.
Speaker 7: It's like, where are we going?
Speaker 9: Were going to Chicago, and I'm like, we're just gonna
Speaker 9: keep going. So she just looked like and it was
Speaker 9: just like emotionally drained. She looked exhausted, she looked tired.
Speaker 9: And I was like, we're just we're not gonna stop
Speaker 9: work and keep going. And then we kept driving, and
Speaker 9: I remember we hit I think it was San Antonio
Speaker 9: and San Antonio in Texas. Yeah, we hit San Antonio.
Speaker 9: Now our phones don't work because all of our phones
Speaker 9: are from Mexico and there's no phone service. And I
Speaker 9: remember we went to a hotel. We check in, and
Speaker 9: I remember I said my nephews to go with the phones.
Speaker 9: They come back. I start calling the attorneys. I start calling,
Speaker 9: like we're here, We're in the US.
Speaker 4: Where's J M P.
Speaker 9: They're like, we don't know. I'm like, where are they
Speaker 9: take Where are they taking it? I'm assuming they're gonna
Speaker 9: come either to Milwaukee or to Chicago. And I'm like,
Speaker 9: so what do I do if I go to Chicago?
Speaker 9: And he's like, I don't think it's a good idea
Speaker 9: that you guys come. And I'm like, if that's where
Speaker 9: they're taking a husband, that's where we're going. He's like,
Speaker 9: I don't think you guys should be nowhere near Chicago.
Speaker 9: But I'm like, I'm sorry, but that's exactly where we're going.
Speaker 7: That's why you knew as well, right.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it's I mean, we didn't have a plan. We
Speaker 9: didn't know what where to go, or we didn't even
Speaker 9: think about, like what do we do when we need
Speaker 9: back to go? We weren't ready to go, so I
Speaker 9: got in the cars and we'd throw straight there.
Speaker 7: We don't stop.
Speaker 15: When we were in Chicago, we went straight to a
Speaker 15: hotel called the Attorney, and then a few agents from
Speaker 15: Witness Protection came out to speak to me and Fez
Speaker 15: and basically told us that they wanted our family to
Speaker 15: go into the program and that we wouldn't be able
Speaker 15: to speak to our husbands until their release.
Speaker 9: Whenever that was released from prison.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so we could have been talking at that point.
Speaker 7: You've got no idea exactly.
Speaker 6: When the twins turned themselves into the US authorities.
Speaker 1: No one had any idea how long they would ultimately
Speaker 1: spend in prison. It would end up being years before
Speaker 1: they'd be sentenced, and despite their cooperation, the possibility of
Speaker 1: spending decades behind bars was still on the table.
Speaker 6: Entering the witness protection program.
Speaker 1: That was offered to them by the government meant the
Speaker 1: family would be split up. Val and Viv wouldn't be
Speaker 1: able to speak to or visit their husbands until the
Speaker 1: day they were released from prison.
Speaker 15: They even said that me and Viv couldn't even be together,
Speaker 15: our kids couldn't be together.
Speaker 9: She had got at one part of the country. I
Speaker 9: had got another part.
Speaker 4: Of the country, no communication, no.
Speaker 15: Communication with us, with our families, with their husbands, with anyone,
Speaker 15: with no one, no one, our parents, no one.
Speaker 9: I said, I'm gonna speak for me and Viv, and
Speaker 9: I said, we'd just absolutely not. We will not be
Speaker 9: going into the program. She put fear in us.
Speaker 15: I know that she told us that they were there
Speaker 15: to help us, and that there's no way we could be,
Speaker 15: you know, on our own, especially with their husbands cooperating
Speaker 15: with their cooperation, and we weren't safe in Chicago.
Speaker 9: That if we weren't.
Speaker 15: Gonna go into the program, that we should leave the state.
Speaker 15: You shouldn't even be in Illinois. And we're like, where
Speaker 15: do we go. She's like, the only way we can
Speaker 15: help you is if you enter a witness protection if not,
Speaker 15: we can't assist you in any way. And we're like, okay,
Speaker 15: I just kind of went started going by the attorneys
Speaker 15: what they were telling me to do, and the attorneys
Speaker 15: they hired twenty four hour security for our men. Two
Speaker 15: SUV's blacked out and they start in front of the
Speaker 15: house twenty four to seven.
Speaker 7: In Chicago. Yeah, to that point, you got a house.
Speaker 15: Yeah, we went there, and then that they slept there.
Speaker 15: They were there twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: The decision not to enter the government's witness protection program
Speaker 1: so they could stay together meant.
Speaker 6: The family were completely on their own.
Speaker 1: Val Viv and the kids moved into one big house
Speaker 1: in Chicago where they could have the protection of around
Speaker 1: the clock private security team.
Speaker 6: Across town.
Speaker 1: J and P were also under around the clock protection,
Speaker 1: but they weren't in a big house. They were in
Speaker 1: a tiny cell in the shoe, no bigger than a cupboard,
Speaker 1: under twenty four hour lockdown.
Speaker 3: For the first few months, it was straight locked. I
Speaker 3: couldn't even get a shower. I don't think we took
Speaker 3: a shower for three weeks. They just they didn't have
Speaker 3: the manpower. We didn't take a shower for three weeks.
Speaker 3: It got to a point something where like we would
Speaker 3: be so embarrassed where we stunk. So that was our
Speaker 3: first real los sting of the shoe, just wondering where
Speaker 3: I was living. I was she okay with my rest
Speaker 3: of my family. I think we didn't have not one word.
Speaker 3: We didn't hear nothing from them, Like I couldn't even
Speaker 3: tell her where I was at. I can't tell you
Speaker 3: how miserable that was. Oh, I had my first major
Speaker 3: panic attacke. I was like para life I couldn't bring
Speaker 3: and I felt like I wanted to cry and scream
Speaker 3: and weird at the same time where I couldn't Just
Speaker 3: you know, remember the first day night in prison and
Speaker 3: tell my brother, please on fall asleep, man, talk to me,
Speaker 3: like take please, don't fall asleep, bro, like stay up,
Speaker 3: talk to me because I'm not like I'm going crazy.
Speaker 7: Did you get quite a lot with panic attacks in prison?
Speaker 4: I had my share, but nothing like those, Nothing like those.
Speaker 4: I could tell you.
Speaker 7: Yeah, the first one the first time, and for.
Speaker 3: Some reason, it was weird because it made me think
Speaker 3: that your body, the beautiful thing about your mind and body,
Speaker 3: that a panic attack usually followed some peace. I don't
Speaker 3: know it felt like afterwards, you know, I cried, got
Speaker 3: back to know and then I kind of felt like okay,
Speaker 3: and it felt like like almost like a release of
Speaker 3: emotions and that, and there was like a soothing little
Speaker 3: face set like a self soothing for a little while.
Speaker 3: And all these things are like, well, how are you
Speaker 3: supposed to feel.
Speaker 4: When you're going through that?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't care if you If I am guilty
Speaker 3: of those crimes, that doesn't mean I don't feel these things.
Speaker 4: They're normal, real human emotions.
Speaker 3: If someone doesn't feel sad to be going through something
Speaker 3: like that, there's something wrong with them. If you don't,
Speaker 3: you know, if it doesn't hurt you to be apart
Speaker 3: from your family, see your babies crying for you, see
Speaker 3: your mother cry for you, do something wrong with you.
Speaker 3: You know, you're not scared to spend the rest of
Speaker 3: your life in prison. You haven't done any real time
Speaker 3: in prison. If you're in prison for two years or
Speaker 3: a year three months, that's nothing compared to the reality
Speaker 3: of fighting for your life. It literally felt like I
Speaker 3: had a life sentence. I was trying to fight off,
Speaker 3: you know, which I was.
Speaker 4: I couldn't see my family.
Speaker 3: I would get like a phone call here and there,
Speaker 3: and my brother and I were like pissed off, like, look,
Speaker 3: man nowhere proffering or debriefing whatever. But I wanted to say,
Speaker 3: right as every other person, I want to be able to.
Speaker 4: See my family.
Speaker 3: And it was like a humongous headache for them because
Speaker 3: of the security issues.
Speaker 9: Finally we're able to see our husband after three weeks.
Speaker 15: We had to go like under a like an underground
Speaker 15: tunnel into the US Attorneys into the federal building, and
Speaker 15: then they took us up the back elevators to the
Speaker 15: offices and that's where we saw Jay and Peter for
Speaker 15: the first time.
Speaker 9: We had the kids with us.
Speaker 4: Do you remember that day we were in that office. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I didn't expect to see them.
Speaker 3: I remember the door open, like the office door opened,
Speaker 3: and I was able to plans down the.
Speaker 4: Hallway and I seen her like standing right there.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and we walked in and I remember my son
Speaker 9: just ran Patty. He's just like honey, crying.
Speaker 4: Like everything.
Speaker 9: We were all crying again.
Speaker 4: Of course.
Speaker 9: It was just so emotional and just looking at j
Speaker 9: and p and they were like just small, they were skinny,
Speaker 9: they were.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry you got to smell. I'm sorry.
Speaker 9: Smile. I took a shower for three weeks, like it's okay,
Speaker 9: you don't smile, you keep.
Speaker 7: Your head up.
Speaker 9: I kept lifting his chin up like you're look handsome.
Speaker 9: I'm like, don't do that, keep your head up. And
Speaker 9: he's like, okay, mess you. We love. It's just west
Speaker 9: like so many things like we're fine, we're safe, we're okay,
Speaker 9: we're okay.
Speaker 3: It was like I wanted to ask questions, but it
Speaker 3: was more like we didn't.
Speaker 9: In that moment, we didn't talk about what he went through.
Speaker 9: We didn't talk about what I went through he went through.
Speaker 9: It was just about our kids, you know, if we're
Speaker 9: okay and we were safe, and that was it.
Speaker 4: It was I was like vocals, like the biggest he
Speaker 4: was okay if.
Speaker 9: If he was eating, He's like, now that we're here
Speaker 9: in the offices, when they bring us, they bring us
Speaker 9: food or whatever they're eating, we eat and we're like,
Speaker 9: why can't you take a shower? It was just like
Speaker 9: it's so weird, like how do you get here? Like
Speaker 9: aren't you like across the street because they have like
Speaker 9: the MCC, the Metropolitan Correctional Center. He's like they move
Speaker 9: us and like these like bulletproof suburbans, and like with
Speaker 9: all these marshals and not much change, right, And it
Speaker 9: was when Obama.
Speaker 3: Was Obama and had just won the election and he
Speaker 3: had I guess they had his office was in the
Speaker 3: Federal Building, right, they have an office there. And what
Speaker 3: happened was that I guess they had the Secret Service.
Speaker 3: The Secret Service would sometimes be there and you know,
Speaker 3: the marshals, and it would be those like they're protecting us,
Speaker 3: and it would be like elevators like hold on, hold on,
Speaker 3: Like it.
Speaker 4: Was like always a problem.
Speaker 3: At the same time, Lukovich, the Illinois governor, had just
Speaker 3: been indicted, so it was like always on media frenzy
Speaker 3: out there and we'd be in these you know, I
Speaker 3: guess you know Obama's security detour or us.
Speaker 4: It kind of was like they couldn't tell what was what.
Speaker 15: Right to them, media was obviously saying that J and
Speaker 15: P was like that was Obama. They were taking him
Speaker 15: and moving him around the city, and it was.
Speaker 9: You two, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7: So how long were you there for?
Speaker 4: Then?
Speaker 7: Seven months?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: If you were in Chicago in late two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight and thought you saw Obama's motorcade, chances are it
Speaker 1: was probably the Flores twins cooperating meant so much more
Speaker 1: than the one phone called Pete recorded on the phone
Speaker 1: to l Chapo. The daily motorcade continued every single day
Speaker 1: for another seven months. The twins were finally allowed to
Speaker 1: see their family, but there was one person who wouldn't
Speaker 1: visit them, their father. Pete and Jay were able to
Speaker 1: get the government to give him a visa to live
Speaker 1: in the United States for his own protection. The government
Speaker 1: felt it would be too dangerous for him to live
Speaker 1: in Mexico because of what the twins had done, but their.
Speaker 6: Father felt otherwise. He wanted his life in his homeland
Speaker 6: of Mexico.
Speaker 1: He headed to the bus station to get on a
Speaker 1: bus to cross the Mexican border.
Speaker 6: Val tried to stop him getting on the bus. It
Speaker 6: didn't work.
Speaker 1: In the midst of their daily cooperation, the twins received
Speaker 1: some awful news. Within days of their father, Margarito Floris Senior,
Speaker 1: arriving in Mexico, he was kidnapped and was never seen again.
Speaker 1: All that was left was his burnt out car and
Speaker 1: a note that said, tell those fuckers to shut.
Speaker 6: Up, or will send you his head.
Speaker 1: The last time Pete and j had seen their father
Speaker 1: was back in Mexico when they told him they've been
Speaker 1: cooperating with the US government, the very thing he'd always
Speaker 1: told them never to do. He called them cowards and
Speaker 1: told them they weren't his sons.
Speaker 7: How did you feel when you found out that he'd.
Speaker 4: Died there.
Speaker 3: I don't think that, even to this day, that I've
Speaker 3: been able to like really like take it on you
Speaker 3: put in the back of my mind at turns, because.
Speaker 4: I guess just not.
Speaker 3: Facials were continue to face those feelings of guilt.
Speaker 14: You know, when I see my mom, I can see
Speaker 14: her loaning as I feel even worse, but like moving forward, like.
Speaker 4: Like all those things he felt like.
Speaker 3: I wish I had, like the story, I feel like
Speaker 3: to be able to tunnel like that I did the
Speaker 3: right thing, you know.
Speaker 4: But he told me, like.
Speaker 3: His eyes were like, don't trust the government. Don't they're
Speaker 3: gonna usual throw you away.
Speaker 4: And he said, and these people are never gonna forget
Speaker 4: what you did.
Speaker 3: And I had the idea to think that, you know,
Speaker 3: like that you're wrong, you know, and the situation I'm
Speaker 3: in today doesn't feel like he was wrong. You know,
Speaker 3: he's taking someone outside ranch. They found his vehicle and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, mm hmm.
Speaker 8: That was it. That was a threat. And to me
Speaker 8: it was like a threat, you know, but a threat,
Speaker 8: asked me, you know, it wasn't It was more of a.
Speaker 4: Statement right for him. Mm hmmm.
Speaker 8: I don't think it's ten from what it was. But
Speaker 8: I guess we understand. I knew one person it was
Speaker 8: a cartle.
Speaker 4: Chapel m. Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 8: I don't recall it the exact words, but I know
Speaker 8: it was something about us talking.
Speaker 4: I was called prayer.
Speaker 7: So you're angry, You're angry that what they did.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not angry. I think I blame myself.
Speaker 8: I blame myself like or I take responsibility for it
Speaker 8: as I have, you know, incoing present for my actions.
Speaker 8: And I think that was a consequence of my actions.
Speaker 8: I think that we like try to like just put
Speaker 8: on this face. And I think it was the situation
Speaker 8: where in the and I try to remember, I remember
Speaker 8: sitting there thinking.
Speaker 3: If this is what happened because of this, then I
Speaker 3: wouldn't make this work there like I'm not gonna like
Speaker 3: come here and just start, you know, second guessing.
Speaker 4: It's like.
Speaker 3: We're gonna stand for something that's meaningful to hours in
Speaker 3: the stuff from Pintro. I Still here, We're still going.
Speaker 1: Surviving El Chapo, The Twins Who Brought Down a Drug Lord.
Speaker 1: Season two is hosted by Curtis fifty cent Jackson and
Speaker 1: me Charlie Webster, produced by myself and Jackson mcclennan, Assistant
Speaker 1: producer and research support by Katie Hurtz. Edit and sound
Speaker 1: designed by Nico Polella. Theme music and original score by
Speaker 1: Ryan Sorenson. It's executive produced by Curtis fifty.
Speaker 6: Cent Jackson and Me Charlie Webster.
Speaker 1: Curtis fifty cent Jackson presents a lions It Sound, a
Speaker 1: G unit audio production exclusively for IHET Podcasts.
Speaker 8: H