1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: I got my first check. It was seven hundred and 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: forty eight dollars and thirteen cent. I never forget oh 3 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: back then, Oh yeah, oh yeah. I went to TJ. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Tony's house and I brought him the whole check because 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: when I was younger, he had taken me to this 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: place called Imperial Men's where it was this high end 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: clothing store Union Avenue, and he bought me three suits, 8 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 1: bought me a pair of Johnston Murphy's shoes, a pair 9 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: of bottle, a bottle of Airmi's cologne, and three shirts 10 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and three neckties. TJ spent twenty two hundred dollars that day. 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Never forgot it as long as I live. And I 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: went by and brought him the whole check because I 13 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 1: had never had anybody ever do anything for me, and 14 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,239 Speaker 1: so I tried to give it back to him, and 15 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: he said, silly Negro, He was my favorite student. This 16 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 1: is such an insult. It was our job to train you, 17 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: it was our job to mold you into this intelligent, 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: upper black middle class man. It's your job now to 19 00:00:58,040 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: pass it on to somebody else. 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 21 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 22 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach at 23 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: Inner City Memphis. And the last part, somehow it led 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team. It's 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 2: called Undefeated, y'all. I believe our country's problems will never 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice 27 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: suits using big words that nobody ever uses on CINN 28 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: and Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks, 29 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 2: us just you and me deciding, hey, I can help. 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: That's what Robert Hill, the voice we just heard, has done. 31 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: Robert's passing on the support and membership that TJ. Tony 32 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 2: gave him to the rising generation of young black men, 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: just as he told him to. I cannot wait for 34 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: you to eat. Robert and his endeavor called Friends after Fire, 35 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 2: right after these brief messages from our generous sponsors. Robert Hill, 36 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: my brother, what's up? 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: Glad to be here, Thank you for the cord and 38 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: limb vite Bill. Good to see you man. I'm glad 39 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: to have you with me. When David Lenore what was 40 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: office he held? Count Trustee? Shelby County Trustee. 41 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: When David and I have known each other actually since 42 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 2: high school. Kind of knew of each other in high school. 43 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: He was a really good football player, played at Alabama 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: and actually was friends with his brother more but certainly 45 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 2: known David forever did. David and I had kids that 46 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: played sports and went to school together. And then David 47 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 2: coach with me at Manassis one year, believe it or not, 48 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: remember that, and so David and I became buddies. And 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: then I became aware of you through David because you 50 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: worked with David in his administration, his office. But i'd 51 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: really never I knew who you were. We'd met, but 52 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 2: I really didn't know who you were and what you 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: were about. And then there was this gap of five 54 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: six years where David's gone on about his life, you've 55 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: gone on about you that I got about mine. And 56 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 2: recently I was invited to speak at a rotary club lunch, 57 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 2: which I did, and you were there and before lunch 58 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: set hello and everything cordials as usual, and then after 59 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: the speech, when there's a little time for Q and A, 60 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: you looked up at a room full of about one 61 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty people and thanked me for my comments 62 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 2: and then turned to the room as a whole and said, 63 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: I would just like to know why I'm the only 64 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 2: white guy in the room, which is interesting because you're 65 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: a black dude. 66 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: Let him blade, I am dead. 67 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: But the yeah, it's by players at Manassas. I would say, 68 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: you are black blad right, I did quack coast of Manasas. 69 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: I didn't even know the difference in light skin and 70 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 2: black skin. I just thought African American do black dude 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 2: and white dude. But now I understand there's a whole 72 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 2: shade thing that goes on. But anyway, you're black. And 73 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 2: when you said that, everybody kind of in the room 74 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: looked at you a little bit, and I chuckled because 75 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 2: it did not surprise me that you would say something 76 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 2: like that. But then I had to parlay on your comments, 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 2: which was I said to the rest of the room, 78 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 2: you know, guys, you really need to think about what 79 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: Robert just said as more than just a joke to 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:50,479 Speaker 2: make you maybe think. The city of Memphis is sixty 81 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 2: five percent black, two thirds black, and the room in 82 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: the Rotary Club was if there were one hundred people there, 83 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 2: it was one percent blat And how is it that 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 2: we expect to actually have any true meaningful interaction and 85 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: action on one of the things that divide us most 86 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 2: in this country, which is race. When we gather together 87 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 2: and we all look like ultimately, that leads to to 88 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: thought and conversations and actions that are in a vacuum 89 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: because we don't know one another well enough to consider 90 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: one another's perspectives well enough to actually grow. And so 91 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 2: we're going to get to what Robert Hill is trying 92 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: to do about that, because I think the work you're 93 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: doing has enormous potential to fix what is one of 94 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: our largest problems. And we're going to get to it. 95 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 2: And teaser here it's called Friends after five, and we're 96 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: going to get to that. Let you go into it first. Unfortunately, 97 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 2: the truth is a guy like you walks a fine line. 98 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: And I want my listeners to hear this because I 99 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: learned this also first while I was at Manassas, but 100 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: even more after Manassas and up to this point engaging 101 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 2: with people of other races who have the temerity to 102 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: drop preconceived notions at the door and have an open 103 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 2: mind and listen. What I have found out is a 104 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: lot of black dudes do that somewhat at their own 105 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: social peril. Because they can be called sellouts, they can 106 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: be called Uncle Tom's from one side and then from 107 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: the other side. Oftentimes they're looked at with an air 108 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: of what's this guy want? You know, what's he in 109 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: this for? What's his angle here. It's a tough place 110 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: to be as a black person trying to do this 111 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: kind of work. It's tough place to be as a 112 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 2: white person. But specifically, since you're our guest and you 113 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: are black, I think it's important for our audience to 114 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: just stop for a second and think when a black 115 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: man reaches across racial lines, black folks are wondering what 116 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 2: he is up to, and white folks are wondering who's 117 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 2: running up to And they're doing it from two very 118 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 2: different perspectives. And it's hard work to get people to 119 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: understand the authenticity of your efforts and that they come 120 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 2: from your heart and they also come from a pragmatic 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: view that we've got to fix this mess. And so 122 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: your effort into Friends after five come with probably a 123 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: little bit of personal heartburn along the way, but I 124 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: know you believe that effort's worth it. So before we 125 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: get to that, so we can understand where you come 126 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 2: from and why you're doing the work you are doing, 127 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 2: and that this is not you with an angle. Why 128 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 2: don't you tell us about how Robert Hill grew up? Oh? 129 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: Maness a, I've had a very blessed and fortunate life, Bill, 130 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: and thank you for having me on the show today. 131 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: I think there's this misconceived notion we operate and these 132 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: segregated silos for so long, and oftentimes I tell people 133 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: of color, I see, I'm not African American. I'm not. 134 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: I mean, we've we've transcended so many definitions of who 135 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: what we are. Yes, my skin tone is black, but 136 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: when I wake up in the morning, I don't look 137 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: at myself as a black man. I look at myself 138 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: as Robert Hill, as a man that God created to 139 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: do something great, have something wonderful with their life. And 140 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: so my background is not very uncommon for most people. 141 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: You mean, like, are men normal people? Yeah? 142 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 1: I'm just normal. 143 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh tell me about it? 144 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: Are working well? I grew up in Memphis, grew up 145 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: in a working class community called alse Ball off Alsea Road, 146 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: went to Alsia School, Cordi School. We walked acor and 147 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: it was busted Overton High School. My mother, you know, 148 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:10,079 Speaker 1: we had three of us three children, father, who decided 149 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,199 Speaker 1: to advance his own career for got he had a 150 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 1: wife and three small children. And what you died, mom did? 151 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: My mom was a school teacher, my dad was a preacher. 152 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: So they divorced in nineteen eighty one. I was probably 153 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: seven eight years of age, and I'm the baby in 154 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: the family. My mother died in twenty seventeen, And so 155 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: we grew up in a working class community of mostly 156 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: the black middle classes teaching, preaching and working at the 157 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: post office. So everyone in our neighborhood either was a 158 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: school teacher or you had some civil service worker that 159 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: worked in the household. And it was a solid working 160 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: middle class neighborhood, middle class community. And so my mother 161 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: made just enough to for us not to qualify for 162 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: financial aid trying to go to college, but not enough 163 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: to send us. So I went to work. When I 164 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: was thirteen years of age, I would leave Corr Junior 165 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 1: High School, catch the thirteen lout of their bus. It 166 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: would drop me off at Brooks Road, and that was 167 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: Presley was a restaurant back then called the Pancake Man 168 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: Restaurant at the corner next door to Cob and Taylor Transmissions. 169 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: It was owned by a guy named Mr Choi and 170 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: Asian fella and I would bus tables at night, washed dishes, 171 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: and then I would get off around ten o'clock and 172 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: go home, do my homework and go back to school. 173 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: We all had to pitch in to help out. My 174 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: mother's health was starting to fail, and so as I 175 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: became an adult, young adult in high school, I started 176 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: busing tables at the people by the Hotel Dutch restaurant. 177 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: Hey Ducks, I was wondering, I remember that you said 178 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: that it was Ducks. It's DUTs there anymore. I don't 179 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 2: think Duck's gone. 180 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: That was a traditional Americano restaurant. John Vogler, who was 181 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: the food and bearage director, opened it up up sometime. 182 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: Laugh and I have opportunity to talk run bellt so 183 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: longs now and those were some very classic days of quality. 184 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: And so I busting tables there. My brother, who's five 185 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 1: years older than me, had just went into army because 186 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: he was went to the army, so cond go for 187 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: the GI bill money be able to go to college. 188 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: And then I was sitting there saying, and I said, 189 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: I guess when you get out, I'll go into army 190 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 1: so I can get Gi Bill money so I could 191 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: go to school. That particular night at the Peabody Hotel, 192 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: working in Dutch restaurant, there was two black guys sitting 193 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: at the table, and this shy, skinny kid with an 194 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: afro walks over to the table, and I said, excuse me, 195 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: you don't know my name, but you probably know my father. 196 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: In the seventies, my dad was deputy director of the 197 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 1: Memphis Urban League and a prominent pastor in the city. 198 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: And so I told my father's name, and they both 199 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: started to laugh. They said, oh, we know your father well. 200 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: And the two guys that were there was Bishop wesh 201 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: Graves of Siemme Church and doctor Benjamin Oer Hooks of 202 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:04,479 Speaker 1: the NAACP. 203 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: Would you, for those who aren't from Memphis, when you 204 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: say doctor Benjamin Hooks in these parts you say a mouthful. 205 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 2: Just let everybody know a little bit about Benjamin Hooks 206 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 2: so they understand who's sitting at this stable. 207 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: Well. Dtor Hooks was the first black judge to ever 208 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: serve on a bench in Chevy Counting and during the 209 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: sixties when we still had segregation, and then of course 210 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: he was appointed the first Commissioner by President Nixon for 211 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 1: the FCC commission Prominent Republican, prominent Black conservative. And when 212 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: he finished as FCC Commissioner, he was tapped to be 213 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: the national director for the NAACP. 214 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 2: HEAs also involved with King at one time on it. 215 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,079 Speaker 1: Oh yes, oh yes, they ran on something called a 216 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: volunteer ticket back in nineteen sixty two. It was Benjamin o' hooks, 217 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,959 Speaker 1: Sheep Wilburn, Henry Clay Budden, who would later become a 218 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: seaman bishop, and one other guy. The ticket is still 219 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: there at the Pink Palace Museum, the volunteer ticket. And 220 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: so there was this group of middle class black conservatives 221 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: who wanted to have this concept of self sufficiency but 222 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: equal rights, equal opportunities, equal access to capital. 223 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 2: So Benjamin Hooks sitting at this table, who laughed when 224 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 2: you said, I think you know my father. He was 225 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: on the leading edge of this one side fiscal family 226 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 2: conservative notions, but a very what would have been at 227 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 2: that time, a very liberal notion toward equal rights and 228 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: freedom for the black folks to become middle class and miionaires. 229 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: He was fighting for both sides. He was walking that line. 230 00:13:53,800 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: He walked it, and I think now equal opportunity is here, 231 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: this now excuse for it. And I do think that 232 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: once you have this propaganda that plays over and over 233 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: and over in certain communities, it leaves you with this 234 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: mindset to where you think that is the truth instead 235 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: of finding out on your own, and you have to 236 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: get out of your comfort zones in order to grow. 237 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: My life has been you know, friends at the five 238 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: is a reflection on relationships I've had with people who 239 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: don't look like me over the last thirty years, and 240 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of it was because of what Bishop Graves 241 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: and Benjamin Hoods pushed me to do. 242 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 2: So take us to that day you're in the Peabody. 243 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you say that, and well take it from there. 244 00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: Well, so Bishop Graves, he wrote his number down. He says, 245 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: I want you to come see me tomorrow to see 246 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: me publishing house. So I was. I got off work 247 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: that night. That morning I went over and met him 248 00:14:58,280 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: at to see me publishing House, which at that time 249 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: I was in South Memphis on South Parkway. It was 250 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: the world headquarters for the See of Me Church. And 251 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: he said, look, I'm looking for a driver. Can you drive? 252 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I can drive, So he hired me 253 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: to be his driver. And he was over Tennessee in 254 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: Arkansas two hundred and seventy five churches at the time, 255 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: the first episcopal district, and so here I was driving him. 256 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: And so one Saturday he asked, he said, I'm gonna 257 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: need you to driving me to Little Rock, Arkansas. And so, 258 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: as a young skinny kid for an Afro driving Bishop Graves, 259 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: one of the first places I went was to the 260 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: governess mansion in Little Rock, Arkansas. Governor Clinton was president. 261 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: Clinton was the governor at the time, and here I 262 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: am a young skinny kid trying to, you know, figure 263 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: out what is really going on. So he exposed me 264 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: to politics. He exposed me to the importance of voting 265 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: and then getting behind candidates that we could approve and 266 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: believe in. So, of course Bill Clinton became president, and 267 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: it was my introduction den to politics with Governor Don 268 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: Sunquist and so many others. But as a result, I 269 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: wasn't going anyone's church when I was young. I didn't 270 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: have any interest in it. So he says, look, you 271 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: can't drive me and don't go to anyone's church. So 272 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 1: none of this really works. None of it works period. 273 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: Without this relationship with God. So he hassigned me to 274 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: about all the cathedral seeing me. He hassigned you assigned 275 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: me like I wanted to see me preaches, So I 276 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: didn't think much about it. He said, well, you're not 277 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 1: driving me on the weekends, you have to go to church. 278 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: So I said, okay, And now a few messages from 279 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: our general sponsors. 280 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: But first, I hope you'll follow us on all of 281 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: your favorite social media channels where we can share more 282 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 2: powerful content from the army. We're at army of normal 283 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: folks on every channel. We'll be right back. 284 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: So I went down to Mount of Cathedral, and back 285 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: then this was one of the most prominent churches we 286 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: had in the city of Memphis. It was mostly made 287 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: up of the black bourgeoisie. It was well educated lawyers, doctors, pharmacist, 288 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: school teachers, you name it. It was EASi at Monto 289 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: Cathedral or Metropolitan at that time for blacks. And so 290 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: hit this little skinny kid trying to blend in. It 291 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: was all this opera music, which was boring, I thought, 292 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: And it was very elitist back then. And so this 293 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 1: older black man walks up to me, who I realized 294 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: later was in his mid eighties. I thought he was 295 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: in his early sixties. He was the retired principal Jitter 296 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: High School TJ Tony, and he walks up to me, 297 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: shakes my hand like a bull. He was strong as 298 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: the ox. He says, look, I've already checked a bishal grade. 299 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: You're not supposed to be driving him this weekend. We 300 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: got to me as prep breakfast Saturday at eight o'clock 301 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: and we want you here. So my best friend Antonio 302 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: that grew up since fourth grade, he and I had 303 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: went down the studio G on Bell Street and we 304 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: were down there gangster walking that Friday night. You were 305 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: doing what gangs to walking. You know, that was the 306 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: lell coo J. And we would put the kanos on 307 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: and we would have ours a bagos on, I dusk 308 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: head pants and our eyes are shirts. We would start 309 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: with Luke Skywalker lell coo J. You nigh it. We 310 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: would start gangster walking around. You know, the building is 311 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: a dance and we would slip mad Dog twenty twenty. 312 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: I preferred to. 313 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: Own not orange. 314 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: Stupidly I had the orange twenty twenty string. 315 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 2: I always liked ard. Yeah, I don't know why I 316 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: liked any of it. Because maybe it's sick as hell. 317 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, did you know back then we could get 318 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: it for two dollars. We was slipping in KFC cups 319 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: and bring it into the parties. 320 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 2: Of course you were. 321 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: And so here it is one o'clock, two o'clock in 322 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: the morning. Got home. It dropped a tonio off you 323 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: little a couple of streets over from me, and uh 324 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: walked past my mother's bedroom abbreviated and trying to hold 325 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: my composure and fell over into bed. I've had those nights, 326 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: so yeah, it was one of them. And uh, just 327 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: by the grace of God, he covered us. And so 328 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: around seven fifteen that morning, my mother's phone was ringing. 329 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,359 Speaker 1: She pulled the cord down the hall, the long cord, 330 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: and she says, hey, there's a TJ. Tony here. He 331 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: wants to talk to you. So I go to the 332 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: phone and he says, looking at you and get you up. 333 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: I want you to get up right now. Don't you 334 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: dare be late, because a black man is only as 335 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: good as his work. You better make sure you be 336 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: here about eight o'clock. He slams the phone down. So 337 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: I jump up and I put my clothes home, brush 338 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: my teeth, slap my feet in my Sobagos jumped my 339 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: little Volkswagen beat a bug. He had a little seventy 340 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: three Volkswagen Beat a Bug. And I'm racing to mat 341 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 1: Olive Cathedral downtown. I get in there at seven fifty 342 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:22,120 Speaker 1: nine am. He's sitting there eating sausage and grits. Will 343 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 1: groom smelled like airmis cologne at his Alpha Phi Alpha ringo, 344 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: and I mean he was groomed up. And he says, 345 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: you are almost late, But I'm not, mister Tony. He said, Remember, 346 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: a negro is only as good as his word. You 347 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: don't ever be late. Once you give somebody your word, 348 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: your word is your bond. And that taught me your 349 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: word is your bond. Being a man of your work 350 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 1: can opened up so many doors that really developed your 351 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: credit profile, more so than the actual credit profile. So 352 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: I stayed for the event. It was very boring, all 353 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: that opera singing and elitists. 354 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, twenty old kid, don't care nothing about that. I 355 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 2: was eighteen eighteen. Really don't care nothing about. 356 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: Anything about that at all. So I got home around 357 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock. My mother was crying, and I said, mother 358 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: was wrong. She says, well, you haven't heard. I said, 359 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: heard what she said? Whatever rested Intonio, the guy you 360 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: were with the night before? You best my best friend? Yeah, 361 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: I said, what do you mean, arrested Antonio? I dropped 362 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: him off last night at two o'clock with me, And 363 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: most of the time Antonio would have been with me, 364 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:34,959 Speaker 1: He would have went with me to the Men's Prayer breakfast. 365 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: But I assume because we got in so late, and 366 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 1: then I was running late, and I just knew he 367 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: would be at home sleep, so I didn't wake him up. 368 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: And Bill that has haunted me for many, many years. 369 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: I never even talked about the story until after I 370 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: started Friends at the Five, and it's still a very 371 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: hard conversation for me to talk about. So that particular morning, 372 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: around nine o'clock, some of them, other friends, he banded 373 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 1: and Michael, went and picked Antonio up. They said they 374 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: were going to get their check from Church's Chicken at 375 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: the third Fairway. So Antonio gets in the back seat 376 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: of the car and didn't know, you know, nothing unusual, 377 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: and so he band went in. He said his check 378 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: was short one hundred dollars. Got into a physical altercation, 379 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: verbal altercation with the manager pushed, the manager, assaulted the manager, 380 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: took the money out the cash register, jumped in the car. 381 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: He thought he was over to check, and so he 382 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: didn't go robbed the place. 383 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: He thought he was old. 384 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 2: More on the check, I see, and he was gonna 385 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 2: get his. 386 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: He was gonna get his. And so Antonio didn't know 387 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: what was going on. He was sitting in the back seat. 388 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: He was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, 389 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: on the wrong ride. And the manager calls the police 390 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: and they pulled a little car with three young black 391 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: boys the summer of nineteen eighty nine, my high school 392 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: senior year, and as a result order that they gave him, 393 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: charged him with successful armed robbery, assault and robbery, and 394 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: gave him eleven months of twenty nine days. And I 395 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: often wonder what that would have really been like, had 396 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: I would have got up off my ass earlier enough 397 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: and when't got him, but it could have changed his life. 398 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: And back then as a convicted felon, and you didn't 399 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: have opportunities that you see now, and he really caught 400 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: hell trying to get on his feet, and many of 401 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: us pitched in throughout the years to try to help him. 402 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: He's been in ill health. If I had a master stroke, 403 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,720 Speaker 1: But had I would not have gotten a call from TJ. 404 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: Tony that morning. I would have been the driver it 405 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: would have called me. I would have picked him up, 406 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: and I would have been a totally different trajectory of 407 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: my life from that those older black men mentored me 408 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: at Mount ol Of Cathedral. 409 00:23:54,840 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: But the point is the small all things in life 410 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: and to end up the biggest things. Had you not 411 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: been at docs and said a load of mister Grays 412 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: who assigned you the church sided we introduced you this 413 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,199 Speaker 2: man who got your up off the out of the 414 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: bed to come church, to be a man of your word, yep, 415 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: your life trajectory would have been completely. 416 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: Different, completely different. And I've had a wonderful life considering 417 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: all things. The order black man taught me how to 418 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: save money, showed me how to open up an irab 419 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: when I was nineteen years of age. When I finished college, 420 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: I was going to teach school, because that's what most 421 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: blacks did, taught school. And this older black man walks 422 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: up to me at church and he says, look have 423 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: you been have you been placed? I said, what do 424 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: you mean placed? All of our college graduates trying to 425 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: make sure to have jobs. I said, well, I'm waiting 426 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: for Man t to come back National Teacher Exam to 427 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: see kind I teach in the Memphis City schools at 428 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: the time. He says, no, I want you to meet 429 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: me at af at too Fast out Third Street, the 430 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: main post office in the morning eight o'clock. 431 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,239 Speaker 2: He said, No, you got assigned to church. Now you're 432 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 2: getting assigned to job. 433 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: And that's that's how they row. That's how he used 434 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: to row. And he was the h and I c 435 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: he had Negro in charge of the post office. 436 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 2: And uh, hold it. You hear what this man just said. 437 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: I can't say that, So I want our listeners hang 438 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: on now, let me just. 439 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: He was I have. 440 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: Heard that phrase in the South my entire life. But 441 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: folks from look like me don't never say nothing like that. 442 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: But people need to understand that is really not everybody 443 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: needs to drop their sensibilities at the door. That is 444 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: honestly in the black community, that is not a derogatory term. 445 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 2: That is like that is the precursor of what people 446 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: now say. 447 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: Is the man well mayor Coleman Young us to have 448 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 1: it on his name, played on his desk when he 449 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: was the Mary of Detroit. He did not, Yes, he did. 450 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: Mayor Coleman Young h n I c. 451 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 2: He had hn ic on his name plate. 452 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: My dad worked for him, the head Negro in charge. 453 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 1: And he had a big ashtray sitting on the desk. 454 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: I remember this little kid going to see him, and 455 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: he was smoking three packs of cigarettes a day, no kidding, yeah, 456 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: and keep an astra on his desk and smoking. And 457 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: so Howard Betts toole me to get down there. I 458 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: did at eight o'clock that morning, and made me pick 459 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: up a fifty pound mail bag, put it on my 460 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: shoulder and bring it across the room and drop it. 461 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: He said, you hired And yep, and that mail bag 462 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 1: was giving me hell because back then I was beside 463 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: twenty nine and the waist and I had to weigh 464 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: but one hundred and fifteen pounds. It weighed almost as 465 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: much as me back then. Hired me on a fifty 466 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: two thousand all of your job because the post office 467 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: making one thousand dollars a week back then before overtime. 468 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: That's a job. 469 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: It was a job. 470 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 2: We'll be right back. You said something to me, I 471 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 2: don't know. When we were having lunch three or four 472 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: weeks ago talking about doing this interview, you said to 473 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 2: me that there's something that dawned on me that I 474 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 2: didn't think about, which is, back then black folks wanted 475 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 2: to work in education or civil service jobs. 476 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: That was kind of a hood. Take pension. 477 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: You're talking about the pension, right, and so you were 478 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: looking for post office banks. 479 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: Maybe no, another facts we didn't attracted that it was 480 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: mostly post office, police officers, fireman, school teachers, the defense 481 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: dep pole. 482 00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 2: So where you get where you get largely good hour pay, 483 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 2: probably part of a union and a pension. Yeah, that 484 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 2: was that was. 485 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: Strange crack and a lot of it came out of 486 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: segregation because unions would never designed for blacks to begin with. 487 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: And so as baby boomers started to have children, and 488 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: their children, these white children were able to go to 489 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: school and college, the union started to lose enrollment. So 490 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: you had blacks working side by side with whites in 491 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: the sixties, fifties and sixties and seventies. The UAW that 492 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,919 Speaker 1: worked part of the union, it wouldn't allow blacks to 493 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: part of the union. So once they started allowing me 494 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: in around seventy seventy one, because they needed the union dudes. 495 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, don't think that was some 496 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: social construct. What it was about money. It was about money. 497 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 2: They needed black money. 498 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: They needed black money, and they realized that black money 499 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: was green. And so that's how blacks became unionized. But 500 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: my mother had uncles and aunts and worked for the 501 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: railroad in the forties and fifties in Chicago. 502 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 2: That did not get the same representation the white workers. 503 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: And by the time he retired at seventy, you just 504 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: got to seventy. Where that made them had to pay 505 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: the railroad pension when they win't even part of pension. 506 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: He started working for him back in nineteen thirty nine. 507 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: So you're working at the post office, and as people 508 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 2: need to hear you because of this construct. The recent 509 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 2: I interrupted this to get to this is I want 510 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: people to understand you'd arrived. This is like shit. I mean, yeah, 511 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 2: I got a job at post office. I'm making one 512 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 2: thousand dollars a week. I'm gonna get a pension. And 513 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 2: this man, this man didn't tell you not to go 514 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 2: into teaching, but he was doing you a favor of 515 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 2: getting you. 516 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: And they just had to sell a dope to do it. 517 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: Because see, most most of them black kids were selling 518 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: dope back then. You know that was that was the 519 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 1: boom in Memphis. You know, you had to cocaine, cowboys 520 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,239 Speaker 1: and the cartel going on in the city. So if 521 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: you're making a thousand dollars a week and you could 522 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: do it lawfully, legally, I mean using high kiting and 523 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: so as a young twenty two year old, I remember 524 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: when I got my first check. He was seven hundred 525 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: and forty eight dollars and thirteen cent. I never forgets 526 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: oh back then, oh yeah, oh yeah. I went to TJ. 527 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: Tony's house. He lived over there on Foster Avenue, glen 528 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: View Heights, and I brought him the whole check because 529 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: when I was younger, he had taken me to this 530 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: place called Imperial Men's where it was this high end 531 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: clothing store and Union Avenue where all the preachers bought 532 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 1: all the Canali suits and stuff. And he bought me 533 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: three suits, a black suit, a David Blue suit, and 534 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: a gray suit. Bought me a pair of Johnston Murphy's shoes, 535 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:39,840 Speaker 1: a pair of bottle a bottle of Airmin's cologne, and 536 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: three shirts and three neckties. They said you can't drive 537 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: the Bishop any kind of way representing us. Those suits 538 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: lasted me almost fifteen years and couldn't wear them out 539 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: they were so well made. TJ spent twenty two hundred 540 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: dollars that day. Never got it as long as I live. 541 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: And I went by and brought him the whole check. 542 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: Because my mother born in nineteen thirty three doing a 543 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: great depression, we didn't have it. You didn't know we 544 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: didn't have it. We didn't never beg for. If you 545 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: caught begging for something or asking for something that you 546 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: had to worked for, you got beat and get you 547 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: a good beating. And they believe in whipping you back then. 548 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: So we didn't give her any trouble. So I had 549 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: never had anybody ever do anything for me, and so 550 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: I tried to give it back to him, and he said, 551 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: this is a very candid conversation. He said, silly Negro, 552 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: silly Negro. He was our favorite student. This is such 553 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: an insult. It made me feel empty. I said, what 554 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: do you mean, mister Tauny, He says, son, we knew 555 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: who you were. I've been knowing your daddy thirty years. 556 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 1: When Bishop Grace called and said that we had another 557 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 1: one to train, we knew exactly who you were. It 558 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 1: was our job to train you. It was our job 559 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: to mold you into this intelligent, upper black metal class man. 560 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: This wasn't my money that I spent the patratuition at 561 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: schools all of our money. I would go down in 562 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: the finance room on Sunday morning and said, look, we 563 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: need to collect some money. Give me your Johnny Walker money, 564 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 1: give me a cool cigarette money, give me a girlfriend money. 565 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 2: Give me the Johnny Walker cool cigarette and girlfriend money. 566 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: That's right, because back then you had so many black 567 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: men that working in these high opinion jobs held. The 568 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: church looked like the Cadillact dealership and the Lincoln dealership. 569 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: And they had fine cars, they had fine homes, good homes. 570 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: And I tell people all the time, all black folks 571 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: are from Missouri. To show me steak. You know, you 572 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: can talk it, but you got to walk it like 573 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: you talk it. And they taught me so much. And 574 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: so when I try to give them the money back 575 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: expressed to me, he says, it's your job now to 576 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: pass it on to somebody else. And I left there 577 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: thinking about this. This is in nineteen ninety three. They 578 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: taught me how to save money. They taught me the 579 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: importance of keeping your credit, your bills paid. I was 580 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: getting ready to go buy a Mustang when I started 581 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: working at the post office, and it wouldn't let me 582 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: buy made me buy a little small Toyota truck. Paid 583 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars for a brand new and coming in 584 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: Pike Toyota back in nineteen ninety two, said the black 585 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: man should always have a pickup truck because you don't 586 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: never know what kind of work you gotta do on 587 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: the side, cut grass or whatever you gotta do to hustle, 588 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: take care of your family even while working a job. 589 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: So I remember I was trying to buy a house. 590 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: My mother wouldn't let me have girlfriends at the house anymore, 591 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: so I wanted to live in the neighborhood there was 592 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: still a prominent black middle class neighborhood. The house came 593 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: up for sale, sixty one thousand dollars house back in 594 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, and I went to every bank in Memphis, 595 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: the black bank we used to be. Try to State Bank, 596 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: they turned me down. Teacher, Credit Union turned me down. 597 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: Everybody turned me down. And so this older black lady 598 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: runs out from try to State Bank. She says, baby, 599 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: go out to Bank of Bartlett in Bartley, Tennessee. So 600 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: I did, and I went out there and this lady 601 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: was typing up the loan information and I was sitting 602 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: at her desk frustrated. And this little short guy walking 603 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: down the hall real fast with jet black hair, saw 604 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,840 Speaker 1: me sitting at the desk distraught. He turns right and 605 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,400 Speaker 1: comes back. He said, sir, you're all right. I said, no, 606 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: not really. He said, I've been to at least nine 607 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: different banks. I'm trying to figure out why I came 608 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: by sixty one thousand dollars house. And I too young, 609 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: my too black, my too young and black. And so 610 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: he picks up the Manila photo off of Vivian's desk. 611 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: She's still at the bank, and he looks through the 612 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: fol excellent credit. He says, uh, how much money you make? 613 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: I said, I work at the post office. I grosser 614 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,080 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a week. He says, uh huh. He said, 615 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: do you have any money save it? I said, I 616 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: got ten thousand dollars. Say, and I got about eighteen 617 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: hundred dollars in an IRA. I went the town credential 618 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: and I had about fifteen hundred dollars a double le 619 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: savings bus. He said about the double saving. Tricky your 620 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: mind that think you'd get more because of the face value. 621 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: You pay half of the face value. And he signed 622 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,640 Speaker 1: a Manila envelope with his pen. His name was Harold Bergs, 623 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: president of Bank of Barlot. He said, let him have it. 624 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: That was the first house I bought, twenty three years old. 625 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: The house was three hundred eighty six dollars a month. 626 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: Because we knew, we were trained that if you can't 627 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 1: put a house into a black person's portfolio, you cannot 628 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,719 Speaker 1: move into middle class. So I couldn't buy clothes, and 629 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: we used to call it clothes and hose couldn't. We 630 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: didn't invest in clothes and hose. We invested in houses 631 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: and saving, sacrifice and family. Family life was very important 632 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: to us. And so somewhere we have forgotten some of 633 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,560 Speaker 1: the traditional values that have propelled us into middle class. 634 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 1: And now we see the shrinking middle class. And a 635 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: lot of it has to do with a liberal mindset, 636 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: this liberal society to say it's a free fall, it's 637 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,360 Speaker 1: not somebody's gonna pay for it. In the middle class 638 00:35:58,400 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: right now, it's paying fift per cent of his income 639 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: to do so. So when I established Friends at the five, 640 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: I had a reflective opportunity and so you know, semi 641 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: retire too young to retire. Would what would just really 642 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 1: look like if more blacks had the same opportunities I've had. 643 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 2: And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Robert Hill, 644 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 2: and you don't want to miss Part two that's now 645 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,240 Speaker 2: available to listen to as we're about to dive into 646 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: Friends after Five. Together, guys, we can change this country, 647 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 2: but it's going to start with you. I'll see you 648 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: in Part two.