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Speaker 1: So far, you've heard Brandon me tell our story the

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Speaker 1: night a guy showed up at our Hollywood TV premiere

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Speaker 1: party claimed he worked for a national intelligence group and

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Speaker 1: offered a well, let's just say, a very specific kind

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Speaker 1: of cooperation. Now, that story has always lived on the

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Speaker 1: fault line between show business and government, between that's impossible

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Speaker 1: and wait, that kind of tracks, and the only way

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Speaker 1: to deal with it all, honestly, is to keep looking

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Speaker 1: for corroboration, for patterns, for independent accounts. It's one thing

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Speaker 1: to talk about ourselves. It's another thing when someone else says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that happened to me too. So today, for the first time,

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Speaker 1: on this podcast and on camera, we have another Hollywood creative,

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Speaker 1: a film director, who says he was approached in a

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Speaker 1: remarkably similar way to what happened to us. And whether

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Speaker 1: you think this is disclosure, manipulation, myth making, or all three,

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Speaker 1: this is the kind of first hand account that sharpens

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Speaker 1: the entire conversation. I'm Bryce's able. Have you ever wondered

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Speaker 1: if there's a secret connection between Hollywood and UFOs?

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Speaker 2: I'm Brent Friedman, and you're listening to sound, light and frequency.

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Speaker 1: We like to think that our show is an active

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Speaker 1: investigation into this issue.

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Speaker 2: And today we're bringing our first witness to the stand.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thrilled to bring my good friend Brett Leonard

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Speaker 2: to our show today. I met Brett back in the

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Speaker 2: late eighties. I think it was through a mutual friend

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Speaker 2: in la and it was right after he had made

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Speaker 2: his first feature, The Dead Pit. Being a big horror buff,

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Speaker 2: we became fast friends, and I really I like to

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Speaker 2: think of it as having a front row seat to

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Speaker 2: watching Brett's career take off after he made The lawnmower Man,

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Speaker 2: as it was for me watching Yours Thank You, and

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Speaker 2: that was an adaptation of a Stephen King short story

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Speaker 2: where he got to show off that he was much

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Speaker 2: more than a filmmaker. He's always been an innovator, and

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Speaker 2: in lawnmower Man he took the concept of virtual reality

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Speaker 2: to a level no one had ever brought to the

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Speaker 2: screen before. After that, he went on to direct some features,

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Speaker 2: including Hideaway, which was an adaptation of a Dean Koontz

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Speaker 2: horror novel starring Jeff Goldbloom among others, and Virtuosity, sci

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Speaker 2: fi thriller starring Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe. Power cast

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Speaker 2: If there ever was one, But he's done much more

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Speaker 2: than movies. He's been working on the bleeding edge of

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Speaker 2: cinema and technology for decades. I remember being blown away

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Speaker 2: the first time I saw the three D Imax dinosaur

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Speaker 2: movie that you made. I also think you're probably one

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Speaker 2: of the only people who's ever made a CGI music

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Speaker 2: video to Peter Gabriel's to Kiss That Frog No Less,

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Speaker 2: that was also a ride simulator and then also went

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Speaker 2: on to win an MTV Movie Award. Am I correct?

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Speaker 3: I think you're correct, because I have a very strange career.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, We're thrilled to have you here on the show,

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Speaker 2: and there's so many things we can talk about, but

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Speaker 2: I want to start first with what happened to you

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Speaker 2: when you got offered your deal. Let's take us back

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Speaker 2: to the very.

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Speaker 3: Beginning in the context of this particular podcast, which is

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Speaker 3: the deal with who Knows What from who Knows where?

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's interesting because you just gave a

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Speaker 3: little the history, and you know, I was again also

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Speaker 3: watching brent career start to take off after having you know,

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Speaker 3: slept on the couch of our friend, our mutual friend,

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Speaker 3: Randy Fontana's couch for about five years, you know, cold

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Speaker 3: calling everyone in Hollywood and watching us, you know, and

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Speaker 3: Brent was working on scripts and and mostly at Horror

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Speaker 3: at that time, and we were just you know, scrapping

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Speaker 3: away trying to get into this this crazy business, which

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Speaker 3: was an amazing business in the in the eighties nineties

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Speaker 3: when we started getting into it, and you know, in retrospect,

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Speaker 3: looking back at that period, definitely an interesting time that

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Speaker 3: is gone now it's a very different business than it was.

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Speaker 3: What happened is we both actually attained success. And part

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Speaker 3: of that weird success or the weird thing that came

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Speaker 3: with that was suddenly these people came out of the woodwork,

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Speaker 3: you know. And and when I heard about what happened,

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Speaker 3: I just recently heard the story from from from Brent

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Speaker 3: and and and Bryce, you know, about what they were

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Speaker 3: dealing with. I suddenly was taken back to this thing

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Speaker 3: that I almost kind of put in a place in

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Speaker 3: my history that I didn't go to think about much

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Speaker 3: because it was such a weird experience and it was

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Speaker 3: almost kind of like out of a movie itself. It

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Speaker 3: was like it was like, is Hollywood really this self reflexive?

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Speaker 3: You know that I remember thinking that at the time,

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Speaker 3: I was researching lawnmar Man, and part of the researching

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Speaker 3: of Lomerman was to research virtual reality technology. And one

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Speaker 3: of the places that had the most advanced virtual reality

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Speaker 3: technology in the planet was a place called the Ames

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Speaker 3: Research Center, which is south of San Francisco. It's connected

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Speaker 3: to NASA. NASA Ames, it has got the biggest flight

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Speaker 3: simulation system, I think in the world at that time anyway,

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Speaker 3: and that was the most advanced virtual reality system. It

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Speaker 3: was a thirty million dollar virtual reality system. And so

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Speaker 3: I threw some friends who I knew through living in

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Speaker 3: Santa Cruz at the time, and you know, part of

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Speaker 3: part of my living in Santa Cruz was I was

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Speaker 3: part of this cafe society that included people like Steve

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Speaker 3: Wozniak and Steve Jobs, and so I was just you know, crazy,

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Speaker 3: you know, kid trying to make science fiction movies, hanging

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Speaker 3: out with those guys and my friend Dan Daniel Kottke,

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Speaker 3: who was the first employee of Apple and was you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of mixed in with this whole DIGITII at the time.

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Speaker 3: And that was very exotic for me because I literally

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Speaker 3: had just come from Toledo, Ohio, very soon before that.

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Speaker 3: So talk about cultural yoga stretches of very vary intets,

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Speaker 3: and so going to the NASA Ames Research Center, I

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Speaker 3: was able to find a way in there through these

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Speaker 3: through these contacts in Santa Cruz, and I remember it

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Speaker 3: was a guy named Bob, and Bob was very open

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Speaker 3: to show me these things, and he obviously worked with NASA,

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Speaker 3: and but kind of worked with other things too. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I felt like he was coming from a more holistic

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Speaker 3: perspective with this level of technology and the fact it

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Speaker 3: was NASA and the Defense Department and all these things

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Speaker 3: and so and you know, being a bit of a

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Speaker 3: you know, semi paranoid conspiracy theorist, uh in some ways,

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Speaker 3: since I was a child, really uh, you know, I

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Speaker 3: I kind of started feeling strange things. And he kept

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Speaker 3: sort of questioning me about interesting, you know, aspects of

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Speaker 3: my research and why I was doing this film. And

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Speaker 3: you know, he found out what the you know, the

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Speaker 3: basic storyline of the film was. And if those of

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Speaker 3: you remember it, you know, it's very little to do

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Speaker 3: with the Stephen king short Story. By the way, the

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Speaker 3: Stephen Kings short Story had no virtual reality in it,

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Speaker 3: no technology in it whatsoever. So I really was creating

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Speaker 3: out of the whole cloth in many ways. And that's

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Speaker 3: a whole other story. But uh, and so it did

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Speaker 3: have to do with government research and virtual reality and

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Speaker 3: and brain research with virtually and things things that were

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Speaker 3: kind of esoteric and using of the neotropic drugs with

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Speaker 3: technology and these things that are you know, was very

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Speaker 3: exotic back then at you know, the late eighties, early nineties,

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Speaker 3: and so he was very you know, intrigued by the

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Speaker 3: fact I was thinking this way and said, look, I

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Speaker 3: think there's somebody you should talk to. And I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean. And he says, well, just let

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Speaker 3: you know. There's there's things that I'm connected to that

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Speaker 3: I think you should be connected to as well, because

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Speaker 3: you're going to be working in Hollywood and you know

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Speaker 3: you're going to be Well that kind of like sat

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Speaker 3: there and and and sort of percolated for a while,

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Speaker 3: and I kind of, in honesty, didn't aggressively go to

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Speaker 3: make those connections because I was a little freaked out.

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Speaker 3: I was a little bit like.

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Speaker 2: By by the guy himself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, by the guy, by the by the story, by

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Speaker 3: the by the context. It's like, well, I'm just trying

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Speaker 3: to get my career going making science fiction movies. Do

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Speaker 3: I have to deal with the government right now? You know?

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Speaker 3: I mean, and you know, of course, I just always

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Speaker 3: had some nefarious thing in my head. And of course

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Speaker 3: you think about Stephen King. I referenced one of his things,

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Speaker 3: the shop in uh in u in vertus I mean,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, in the Lomer Man. And so that was

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Speaker 3: a kind of paranoid governments gets uh, you know, conspiracy thing.

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Speaker 3: And so the whole thing was just like, well, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to kind of just do a moon walk back

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Speaker 3: back back, you know, and and and get away from

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Speaker 3: this little bit. I did until the movie came out

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Speaker 3: and it was a hit, and it was.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to add up you right there because when

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Speaker 2: we talked about this earlier, you wo had also mentioned

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Speaker 2: that they had like a really strange VA program. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: I think we need to hear about the VR program.

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Speaker 2: I just want to jump in and clarify one thing.

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Speaker 2: By the way, nice to meet you on camera here.

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Speaker 2: One thing folks may not remember, may not know actually

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Speaker 2: is that Brent. You talked to Brett first and then

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Speaker 2: I said, don't even tell me the rest of this.

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Speaker 2: I want to be in a sound proof Isolation booth

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Speaker 2: so that I hear this story for the first time.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, Brett, I have been to Toledo, Ohio.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that that's important.

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Speaker 3: That's kind of amazing.

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Speaker 1: We believe in full transparency and disclosure here in satellite

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Speaker 1: and frequency, so I just wanted to bring that out.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to make sure I'm getting this

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Speaker 1: so that our audience is on board too. Tell me again,

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Speaker 1: who is this person that first approached you? Who was

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Speaker 1: that person?

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Speaker 3: A guy named Bob At who worked at the NASA

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Speaker 3: Ames Research sete.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is who was Okay?

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Speaker 3: Who was part of this you know, this group of

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Speaker 3: people that were showing me this thirty million dollar virtual

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Speaker 3: reality simulation flight simulation system and talking to me about

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Speaker 3: VR and my thoughts and VR. I mean, it was

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Speaker 3: it became very wide ranging and I actually, you know,

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Speaker 3: through that process, I made a lot of friends at

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Speaker 3: the Jet Propulsion Laboratory at JPL, you know, I got

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Speaker 3: involved and that that kind of that kind of group

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Speaker 3: of people because I you know, I could, I could,

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Speaker 3: I could talk story with him, you know, I could,

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Speaker 3: I could, we could do kibbits about a lot of

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Speaker 3: different things. And at one point, just part of the

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Speaker 3: Bob story that Brent just reminded me of. In the

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Speaker 3: context of doing this flight simulation demo, suddenly there was

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Speaker 3: a demo of something that was very surprising. It was

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Speaker 3: suddenly a demo of this craft came into the frame

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Speaker 3: of the fighter jet simulation with what can only be

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Speaker 3: described as non ballistic movement, and it was zoping around

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Speaker 3: and and then there was all these like indicators going on,

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Speaker 3: and there's all this because I wasn't flying. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is me getting the experience of the flying in

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Speaker 3: the in i think the right hand seat, well, the

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Speaker 3: simulator was being flown by someone else. And he goes, yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is a special program we have and then I'm like,

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Speaker 3: for for for unique and interesting circumstances. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: first of all, this is a thirty million dollar five

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Speaker 3: simulation system. It's the highest inverts try in the world.

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Speaker 3: And they're showing UFOs on this thing as part of

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Speaker 3: the simulation for flight training. That was very very strange

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Speaker 3: because I asked him are these UFOs and he just smiled, right,

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Speaker 3: So yeah, but I'm telling you there was no way

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Speaker 3: there was these were you know, megs This was not

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Speaker 3: about that kind of This was a totally non baalistic movement.

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Speaker 3: It was showing a visual that that had, you know,

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Speaker 3: weird colors. There was a there was a level to

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Speaker 3: it that literally felt like it was a special effect

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Speaker 3: out of a science fiction film.

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Speaker 1: And Brett before at the time that you were first

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Speaker 1: showing this, what was your opinion about UFOs. Did you

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Speaker 1: have any feelings about the one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I've experienced two major times my life. Absolutely experienced

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Speaker 3: what I know. It was something that was of the worldly.

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Speaker 3: One was on Manitoulin Island and I was there with

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Speaker 3: my family and with another family and I'll never forget

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Speaker 3: all of us watched this thing in the sky and

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Speaker 3: it was a brilliant sky because Mattu Line was very

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Speaker 3: very isolated wilderness place, you know, in the middle of

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Speaker 3: one of the Great Lakes. And we watched, you know,

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Speaker 3: I think I was ten years old, ten eleven, and

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Speaker 3: we watched it for several hours. It was it was

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Speaker 3: it was going all over the sky. It would go

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Speaker 3: to the other side of the island. It was definitely

236
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Speaker 3: experiencing non you know, expressing, non baalistic movement. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know what that was at that time. Of course I

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Speaker 3: didn't have the ability to express it. But and I

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Speaker 3: remember even my father, who was a science teacher, very

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Speaker 3: very empirical guy. Okay, this is not a guy that's

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Speaker 3: thrown to flights of fancy, let's put it that way.

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Speaker 3: He was truly intrigued and thought, you know what, this

243
00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,360
Speaker 3: is something absolutely different than normal aircraft. And because we

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Speaker 3: lost it for so long, it became a kind of

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Speaker 3: real foundation for me of just believing that there was

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Speaker 3: something out there that that was different, that that was

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Speaker 3: you know, what we call UFOs at the time, you know,

248
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Speaker 3: and and just that was always something informing me. Then

249
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Speaker 3: one at one point, this is an amazing weird story.

250
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Speaker 3: Later on, when I was about fifteen years old, I

251
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Speaker 3: took my father's Audie Fox car out of the driveway

252
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Speaker 3: very very late at night with my friend Joel Hazard,

253
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Speaker 3: and we just did it to go driving out into

254
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Speaker 3: sort of the cornfields on the outskirts of Toledo, just

255
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,800
Speaker 3: to do it. I think we're going to smoke a joint,

256
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 3: you know, you said, oh, yes, yes, yes, no, totally

257
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Speaker 3: a lot of license, and we we pushed the car

258
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Speaker 3: out the driveway silently. Now again, if my father had

259
00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 3: caught me doing this, I thought probably my life would

260
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Speaker 3: be over right. So this was actually a very I

261
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 3: think we were out at Oak Openings and we were

262
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Speaker 3: driving down this dark road just like out of Close Encounters,

263
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Speaker 3: literally like the one that hry NEARY is going down

264
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Speaker 3: when the ray road signs go crazy and I'll never

265
00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 3: and I saw again a non ballist thing comes zipping

266
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Speaker 3: it stop and then as soon as it stopped, the

267
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Speaker 3: car died. Everything about it died. What wait a minute?

268
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Speaker 3: And then it zipped away and that car did not

269
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 3: come back to life until after it went to the

270
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Speaker 3: So my father did find out I stole the car.

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Speaker 3: My father can can actually use substantiate the story, because

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Speaker 3: there's no way I would have called him, you know. Literally.

273
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Speaker 3: I remember we had to walk to a farmhouse and

274
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Speaker 3: it was about dawn and by day I get up

275
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Speaker 3: early because he was an elementary school principal at that time.

276
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Speaker 3: And I called him and he asked the phone, where's

277
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 3: the car? And it literally all of the electrical system

278
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Speaker 3: was fried in the car.

279
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Speaker 2: Wow, okay, it's just like Close Encounters.

280
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Speaker 3: It was literally when I saw Close Encounters, which was

281
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 3: after that, not many years after that. Actually, actually it

282
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 3: was I literally had this flash that I experienced that

283
00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,840
Speaker 3: that scene, except it.

284
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Speaker 1: Was in close encounters Roy Neary's car comes back to life,

285
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: so at least he didn't have to face anybody holding

286
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: his account.

287
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,360
Speaker 3: And I remember from my grandpa father he had to

288
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 3: come out and get it towed to an electrical place,

289
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,720
Speaker 3: and it was like it was a it was a

290
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 3: big rigmarole. And you know, of course, my dad didn't

291
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,360
Speaker 3: want to hear me telling any stories about UFOs. I mean,

292
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Speaker 3: you know, he just yeah, whatever, your dad, you you

293
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 3: ruin my car. You know. Plus I was fifteen and

294
00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 3: didn't have a license, so you know, anyway that bad,

295
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,920
Speaker 3: you know. So so that those those experiences, and there

296
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,720
Speaker 3: were a few others in my more adult life that

297
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 3: have made me feel absolutely there are things going on

298
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Speaker 3: in our skies that are definitely in the realm of

299
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:16,920
Speaker 3: u APS.

300
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, going back to the flight simulator, what you saw

301
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:26,119
Speaker 2: was clearly similar in terms of the movement and everything

302
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,320
Speaker 2: to what you'd seen in real life exactly.

303
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 3: That's why I knew, that's how I had a correlation

304
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,159
Speaker 3: to it. It was like when that reminds me of

305
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 3: being on manituline island and watching it.

306
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 1: I want to drill just one step deeper on that though,

307
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 1: because you've seen that, You've seen two things, and you know,

308
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,720
Speaker 1: sometimes you don't see them up close and personal like

309
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,719
Speaker 1: you might in a flight simulator. Was the flight simulator

310
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Speaker 1: version literally like right out your window and you're seeing

311
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,640
Speaker 1: structure and a craft kind of thing it was?

312
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Speaker 3: It was not too much structure, It was a little

313
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,439
Speaker 3: it was definitely round, and it was flashing like so

314
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,879
Speaker 3: it was not a normal aircraft. It definitely was not

315
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,000
Speaker 3: a normal verybody. But it didn't show a lot of

316
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,400
Speaker 3: structural detail. Okay, what was what it was doing though,

317
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,320
Speaker 3: was flying non ballistically. And then the simulator of the

318
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 3: fighter jet that I was in was obviously adjusting to

319
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,399
Speaker 3: that that movement, right, So the guy was, you know,

320
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,040
Speaker 3: sort of playing with this thing, and that was what

321
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,240
Speaker 3: it felt like. It felt like, you know, they were

322
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,240
Speaker 3: they were playing with something. I asked a bunch of

323
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Speaker 3: questions and Bob said, look, this is there's some people.

324
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Speaker 3: There's somebody I want you to meet. That's that's why

325
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,680
Speaker 3: it kind of led to this this idea. And then I,

326
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Speaker 3: as I was saying before, I kind of didn't uh

327
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Speaker 3: go for that I didn't. I didn't pursue that very much.

328
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Speaker 3: But what happened was the movie was a big sort

329
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Speaker 3: of phenomenon. It was a hit and a kind of

330
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,399
Speaker 3: phenomenon at the same time. And suddenly, out of the

331
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,640
Speaker 3: out of the blue, Bob gives me a call and says, look,

332
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Speaker 3: I've got a guy that I want you to I

333
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,600
Speaker 3: got a guy literally literally was it was almost that

334
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 3: it was almost like that, you know, I got a guy,

335
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 3: like yeah, exactly like a and.

336
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,160
Speaker 2: This was they're talking about like this is probably almost

337
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 2: a year, but after you'd met Bob, right, because you

338
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 2: were still.

339
00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 3: It was like a year and a half. It was

340
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,639
Speaker 3: a year, two year and a half, yeah, which was

341
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,359
Speaker 3: again sent a chill down my spine because the fact

342
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,119
Speaker 3: that someone was reaching out to me now that I

343
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,879
Speaker 3: had a successful film, I was like going, Wow, this

344
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 3: this is something. There's something actually happening here that's connected

345
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,280
Speaker 3: to the fact that I have put something out in

346
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,640
Speaker 3: the world that people have actually seen, and that thing

347
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 3: as a lot of you know, concepts in it that

348
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,240
Speaker 3: are related to government, are related to secret research, all

349
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 3: of those things. So I was constantly going, am I

350
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,119
Speaker 3: in trouble? I was you know, am I in trouble?

351
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,920
Speaker 3: You know? And so my whole thing was, look, man,

352
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 3: I'm just a sign. I'm just telling fanciful stories. And

353
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 3: you know. Of course I was actually trying to base

354
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 3: it in real technology more than most. That was one

355
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 3: of the reasons I think it was on the radars,

356
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 3: because I was using actual, real virtuality technology. I was

357
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,879
Speaker 3: showing sort of the real thing and the more fantastical

358
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,439
Speaker 3: element of it simultaneously, which is kind of rare in

359
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 3: science fiction. So there was very much science fact in

360
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,680
Speaker 3: that movie as much as there was science fiction. And uh,

361
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 3: and so that brought about this connection to this this

362
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,280
Speaker 3: person that was introduced to me by Bob and I.

363
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,120
Speaker 3: I got a call, uh, let's meet and I went

364
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 3: and met him. I can't remember his name. I I

365
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 3: remember he did give me a card, I asked him.

366
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 3: I he and I think I heard in your story

367
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 3: a thing about a car that didn't have much on

368
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 3: it that was exactly my same experience, exactly right dot C.

369
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 3: This was this was a guy's name and a number

370
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 3: and I and I one of the things I kept

371
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 3: trying to get from him was who do you work for?

372
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,679
Speaker 3: Who the frick am I talking to here, you know,

373
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 3: I mean, because I was again in the back of

374
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 3: my mind going does this end with me in Blake Irons.

375
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 3: You know, I had no idea what the hell was

376
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 3: going on, and I, you know, I got comfortable talking

377
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,719
Speaker 3: with him, and he eventually, like we went through all

378
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 3: the you know, D O D CIA eventually landed on NSA.

379
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 3: He said, well, the main agency I work for is

380
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:29,359
Speaker 3: the NSA.

381
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 2: The man said so he wow, so he worked from

382
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: that full agencies.

383
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, basically it was. And I don't know if

384
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 3: that was just him sort of giving me a you know,

385
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,159
Speaker 3: a red herring or not. I don't know if he

386
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 3: because I tried to lock him down to CIA because

387
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:47,960
Speaker 3: I really felt like this feels like CIA to me,

388
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: and and he wouldn't lock down to that, and they

389
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,720
Speaker 3: finally he said, if I worked for the NSA, and

390
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: the NSA is a very secretive group, uh, you know,

391
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:02,199
Speaker 3: it's about signals, uh, signal intelligence more than anything. And

392
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 3: that's why we're talking with people in the Hollywood environment,

393
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 3: because there are things that you're dealing with because you're

394
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: looking at actual science, you're looking at things that are

395
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: more fanciful in nature, and there are things we are

396
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: doing in the government that actually connect to the kind

397
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: of things you're talking about, including what you saw in

398
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 3: that simulator. And he referenced the experience I had in

399
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 3: the simulator, So he referenced the quote unquote alien aspect

400
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 3: of it as just part of you know, sort of

401
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 3: part and parcel of this overall thing. And we want

402
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 3: to know if you'd like to work with us or

403
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 3: you know, he was just wanting to do this connection

404
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 3: and kind of like the the idea that I would

405
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 3: be able to, you know, see things that others didn't

406
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: get to see that could maybe inform my stories. And

407
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 3: he was very seductive, very seductive. But that also was

408
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 3: weird because he didn't feel like a cop. He didn't

409
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 3: feel like an FBA, he didn't feel you felt like

410
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 3: someone trying to seduce me in a direction with and

411
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 3: I couldn't get a handle on what was the actual

412
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 3: purpose of that, Like are you trying to use me

413
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: for propaganda or are you actually someone trying to get

414
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 3: some truth out through the Hollywood connection, because I'm at

415
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: that time, you know, a younger Hollywood film director, and

416
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 3: there's you know, we're interested in these sort of things,

417
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 3: and you know, so when I heard your story, Brent,

418
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: it was literally reactivated. That chilled down my spine because

419
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 3: it was so many things that well, you know, obviously

420
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,199
Speaker 3: different on the summary levels, but so many things that

421
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 3: were very similar in terms of the vibe, in terms

422
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 3: of the the overall sort of mystery of the experience. Now,

423
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: my reaction to that, again after I had experienced him,

424
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 3: was to hide from it. I wanted to just get

425
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 3: on with my work. I was worried that if I

426
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: got down some rabbit hole with this that I'm working

427
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: for the government. I mean, I you know, that wasn't

428
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 3: really something I wanted to do, and he did kind

429
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 3: of almost make it seem like that. Even in this

430
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 3: court of seduction part, there was all you know, there's

431
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 3: ways you can make money doing this, there's you know,

432
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: there was all these kinds of things that he was

433
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: sort of playing with in his uh, in his pitch

434
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: that came off of my questions. You know, I was

435
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 3: very very you know, like questioning of what the hell

436
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 3: is going on here? And so you know, there he

437
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 3: reached out a couple of different times. But part of

438
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: what he did in that first meeting, or was it

439
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 3: the second, I think it was the second meeting. There

440
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: was two meetings, and again this is this I'm unearthing

441
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: this in my because I literally buried it. I kind

442
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 3: of buried it and didn't, you know, didn't pursue it.

443
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: So it was something that got reactivated when when I

444
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 3: heard your story. He showed me my dossier, Your intelligence

445
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: dossier was this thick whoa and every movie I had

446
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 3: ever rented was listed, all of these things that were

447
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: really like personal going back to my high school days.

448
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 3: I mean, and I'm like, is this an They say,

449
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 3: is this? You know? Well just call your FBI dossier FBI.

450
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, am I doing something wrong? You know?

451
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 3: And so he was very very like he was constantly

452
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: shifting the story a little bit, right, so I couldn't

453
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 3: fully land on exactly what is this? And yet he

454
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: was also trying to seduce me into being part of something,

455
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: even though for me, I wanted specific answers. I wanted

456
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: to know what the hell am I working for? What

457
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: is the purpose? Why? And that's just not what his

458
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 3: energy was that It was kind of like, that's kind

459
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 3: of cute and funny that you're asking those questions, Brett,

460
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 3: but you know, that's just not the way it works,

461
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 3: you know. I'm like, oh, well, that's the way I work,

462
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: you know. I'm sorry. I can't just give myself to

463
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: something without knowing what the you know, the sort of

464
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,119
Speaker 3: moral framework of it is, and all these other things.

465
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 3: And so when I saw the dossier, I realized, holy shit,

466
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: this is a real thing. This is actually connected to

467
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: me being someone that's had a lot of people see

468
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: my work that I you know, because of there being

469
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 3: some success there, and I'm making a hit film that

470
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 3: had scientific components and all these ideas in it. That

471
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 3: I was now in this sort of track, you know,

472
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 3: and that terrified me. I did not want to be

473
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: on that track. I wanted to be doing what I

474
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 3: wanted to do in my own way without having to

475
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 3: be in that track and be working. So I literally

476
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: kind of almost aggressively ran the other way.

477
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 1: How long from the time where you sat down with him,

478
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: I guess for the second time and heard the pitch.

479
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: How long from that time to when you felt that

480
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: you had to make a decision and you had to

481
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: just get off the fence and tell the guy you

482
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: weren't interested no right away?

483
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: And I never fully told him. I just I did

484
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 3: a fade. I mean I basically ghosted him. Yeah, I mean,

485
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 3: and you know I was moving. You know, I was

486
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: getting more money at that time in my life. You know,

487
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: I had more fruit flexibility. I was able to, you know,

488
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 3: go to Hawaii and live there for multiple months in

489
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: the jungle and then come back and make a movie.

490
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 3: I mean, to say I lived a crazy wild life

491
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: of the film director would be an understatement. I won't

492
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 3: get into all the details, but just let me tell

493
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 3: you I have a good imagination.

494
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 1: Let me just say one word, Colonel Kurtz. Anyway, anyway,

495
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: I get the I totally get the idea that you said,

496
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it. But my question also is,

497
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: did you at least a night or two stay up

498
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: late and consider the possibility that you would in fact

499
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: need to take this because it was so unusual and so.

500
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 3: Many nights, many nights, many nights, many and actually there

501
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 3: were times there were times when I would later, after

502
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: sort of assuring this, I would sort of kick myself

503
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 3: and think, well, damn it, maybe I should have you know,

504
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,199
Speaker 3: maybe this is benign. Maybe this is some part of

505
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: that structure reaching out to me. Because I was a

506
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 3: storyteller and who knows. Maybe they reached out to HG. Wells,

507
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: and they reached out to Jules Verne, and they reached

508
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 3: out to you know, and I'm just, you know, I'm

509
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: sure I could have been in that line of kind

510
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 3: of communication, you know. And I mean there was all

511
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: those thoughts, you know. It's like, but I must say,

512
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 3: I go by my own instinct, and there was something off.

513
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: It was something a little off. And I don't know

514
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 3: if you guys felt that or not, but there was

515
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: something a little off. Now, the thing that it might

516
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 3: be off that I think now he could have been

517
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: an alien.

518
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: It's so funny that it's so funny that you say that,

519
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: because you know that rings a bell. Yeah. For years,

520
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: when Bryce and I would talk about this and reminisce

521
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 2: about JC and the party crasher, it was always like, well,

522
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: was he really who he said he was? Was he

523
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 2: really was? Or was it a hoax? Or And then

524
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 2: it wasn't until years later when I told my daughter

525
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: the story, right, and she was in her twenties at

526
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: that point, and without a beat, she said, well, how

527
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: do you know he was human? And I kind of

528
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: was taken aback because at that point, you know, now,

529
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: We're hearing all these stories about hybrid programs and humans

530
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: that are living amongst us as aliens, So I can't

531
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: completely rule that out.

532
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 3: Look, let me say it in the way that I

533
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: experienced it. The weird feeling I got was not a

534
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 3: weird feeling that was necessarily evil, right. It was a

535
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 3: weird feeling like there was a strange glint in his

536
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: eye kind of thing, like like there was something there.

537
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: And again, because the story kind of bunced around and

538
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: in its factual nature and the way he was presenting

539
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: it didn't feel had it didn't have a continuity with

540
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 3: the rest of my normal human experience with people. Right,

541
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: it was it was like this is on the outside

542
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 3: of it was just odd And now I look at

543
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 3: it and I go that oddest was kind of a

544
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: feeling of alienists. It was feeling like it was it

545
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: wasn't somebody, you know, And I've now, you know, researched

546
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 3: all kinds of things about walk INDs and all kinds

547
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 3: you know, all kinds of you know, aspects that I'm

548
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 3: going was that, you know, a shell person that I

549
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 3: was talking to. And the more I think that, of course,

550
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: quality of memory is an interesting and mutable thing. The

551
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 3: more I feel like there were things about it that

552
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 3: absolutely fit that idea. And because of that, there's some

553
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 3: of my regret is there. It's kind of like the

554
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: regret I was roy neary going to get onto the

555
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 3: mothership and then I said, no, you know, I mean

556
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: that's a you know, hyperbole, but it's still a feeling

557
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 3: of that. Like I kind of said, notice something because

558
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: I felt it was outside of my experience that would

559
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 3: there be something I could control. And so because I

560
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: wanted to control where my you know, my career was

561
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 3: going and how I wanted to tell stories, and I

562
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 3: pushed it away. But was I pushing away something that

563
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 3: would have been an absolutely unique experience?

564
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: You know, let me just throw this one thought out there.

565
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: I get the alien part of it, But for my

566
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: own take, when this guy JC approached us, my first

567
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,239
Speaker 1: take was, this guy's gotta be putting this on. I mean,

568
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: it just seemed too radical happening to us. And and

569
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: then and then we saw him as a second time

570
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: as you did. But then I started to go it

571
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: sure seems a little more real than that. But I

572
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: never thought aliens, So my, I guess there aren't. There's

573
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: three options in this thing. One is disinformation or hoax,

574
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: the there is authentic government appeal. And for me, the

575
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: outlier was the alien thing, because I thought the guy

576
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 1: acted pretty human and I was willing to buy into

577
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: that story. I just I just wasn't clear what their

578
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: angle was. So was the dis info versus real government

579
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: approach part of your debate?

580
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: That was that was the That was how I was

581
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: thinking then. And and it's interesting you said you thought

582
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,960
Speaker 3: was he putting you on? At first with Bob, I

583
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 3: thought Bob was kind of joking with me right at

584
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: the ames. And then when he followed up later after

585
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 3: the film came out and was like thing I wanted,

586
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 3: you know, I realized, Oh, it's not a joke. He

587
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: wouldn't go to this elaborate, you know thing to do that.

588
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: And then when I met the guy at first I thought, oh,

589
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: maybe this is a who knows, is this some comedy

590
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 3: team doing something? Yeah? I mean literally, because it was weird.

591
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 3: The moment that cemented it for me was when he

592
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: showed me my dossier, a physical thing, a physical thing

593
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: like for a while, like I got to you let

594
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 3: me look at it for a while, and it was

595
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: incredibly comprehensive. So someone put that together that was serious.

596
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't out of nowhere. It wasn't something

597
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: that was you know, put together as a gag saying

598
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 3: it was real.

599
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 2: Did you feel like when I when I hear you

600
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: say that, I it, you know, kind of my haunches

601
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 2: And because it feels like a threat, it feels like

602
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 2: there's everything we know about you, yes, and we can

603
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: use it for you.

604
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: Or again the way he said it was like, oh

605
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: I got something to show you. You know, it was

606
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 3: like that at some point in the end, then what right?

607
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 3: And I'm like, even though it didn't wasn't overtly feeling threatening,

608
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 3: the whole thing felt threatening. That's why I that's why

609
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 3: I backed away, you know, because I felt if I

610
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 3: keep going and really poking this bear, what's this bear

611
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 3: going to turn into? And at that point I didn't

612
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 3: think alien, but but later on that came to be

613
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 3: more of the thought process.

614
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,760
Speaker 1: Brett, I want to ask you how you've felt about something.

615
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: I know when this was happening to me and Brent,

616
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: I didn't even know the phrase at that point. The

617
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 1: m m RPG isn't that massive multiplayer role playing?

618
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 3: Yeah? Broke like playing game exactly. Yeah.

619
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So later when I was aware of that term,

620
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: I always felt like Brent and I had been targeted

621
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: by somebody that had built an MMRPG around us, and

622
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 1: that whatever their motivations were, whether they were I guess

623
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 1: disinformation or the real thing or I guess even now

624
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: alien or whatever, somebody had put some time into the

625
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 1: approach to us that exceeded casualness. It exceeded somebody being

626
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: in their parents' basement looking for a lark. It seemed

627
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: like it was well laid out. And that's why I

628
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: find the thing about them having their file on you

629
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: and it I mean, yes, did you see anything in

630
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: the file that was incorrect that would make you.

631
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 3: Want that one thing? That one thing was incorrect? It

632
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: was a serious like some law enforcement agency has. And

633
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 3: it was kind and he basically saying like, well, because

634
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 3: you made this hit film dealing with science and it

635
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: has government ideas, this is is what we do. And

636
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: and he was suggesting that that was a normal thing

637
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 3: for people in Hollywood, that I should just you know,

638
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: accept that, and that the NSA had those kinds of

639
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 3: that kind of information on people. I don't believe in it,

640
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 3: and I think I don't believe that has that. The

641
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 3: one part of this story that I mostly told other

642
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 3: people and you you talk to many friends of mine,

643
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 3: was the fact that this guy showed me my dossie

644
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: at one point after I had a hit film. That

645
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 3: was the distillation the story got down to, because it

646
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 3: was such a radical moment. It was like, what, oh, man,

647
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 3: you know, I guess there's a there's a sacrifice you

648
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: make when you get into the public eye and you

649
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 3: put out ideas out there that you know are beyond

650
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: what you you know, traditionally think, unless you're watching science

651
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: fiction movies that have these kinds of plots all the time.

652
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like out of war games or you know.

653
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 3: I mean, it's you know, it's it's it. That's why

654
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 3: I felt so self for flexive. To me, it felt

655
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: like I was in a movie of my own movie career.

656
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, right, Brent, You and I felt that

657
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: that's I mean, I remember saying that to you at

658
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: the time, feeling like I feel like, not only are

659
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 1: we having this interaction with this person, but that other

660
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: people were observing the interaction and it wasn't just the

661
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:27,239
Speaker 1: event itself. It was a larger context, and so it

662
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: had a weird level of artifice to it.

663
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 3: Except that that's that's the vibe when I say there's

664
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: a twinkle in his eye, that that's the part of

665
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: it that still to this day is the vibe I

666
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 3: take away from it, like this thing outside of normal

667
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 3: life sort of descended on me for a little while.

668
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 3: And I was in this role play in a way.

669
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 3: You know. That's why it feels, for lack of a

670
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: better term, kind of alien. You know, it's it's outside

671
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 3: of you know, it was an ultra ultra experience, you know.

672
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 3: And and uh, and then later in my life that

673
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: not too many years ago. Actually, there are a few

674
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 3: things that have happened that kind of feel connected to it.

675
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 3: I didn't tell you about this before, bradback because I

676
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: remembered it after we talked. I got involved. I think

677
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 3: I'm even told you this a few years back in

678
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: this documentary series about the Cicada arg You know what

679
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 3: Cicada is, the CATA three through twenty one. It's a

680
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 3: big online game that was one of the first major ones.

681
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 3: There's huge amounts of controversy around it. It eventually got

682
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 3: connected to QAnon, not that that's where it started. But uh,

683
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 3: and there was a there was a man who was

684
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: very involved with it and one of the supposed the

685
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: founder of this this this online game. Uh. And then

686
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: there was all this intrigue that happened between the players

687
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 3: on a global basis and and came There was actually

688
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:06,359
Speaker 3: a CNN documentary about it, and the HBO documentary about

689
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 3: Q and on Q has a bunch of that in

690
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 3: there about Cicada. So if you want to look into

691
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 3: it and look up Cicada thirty three twenty four, I think, yeah,

692
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 3: that was the the monocery. By the way, it's still

693
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 3: out there. It's still an ongoing. It came out of

694
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 3: eight Tran, you know, on Fortran. I mean, I mean

695
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 3: came out of you you know, the dark the Dark

696
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 3: Web and uh. And so it was fascinating to me

697
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,759
Speaker 3: as a story. But then when I got involved, I

698
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 3: felt kind of the presence of the same energy that

699
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 3: I had felt with that those those guys, you know,

700
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,960
Speaker 3: Bob and the guy who I can't remember his name,

701
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 3: and it has connections to a similar sort of hidden

702
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 3: government element that seems to have a couple of times

703
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 3: reached out to me. I didn't chase this stuff. This

704
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 3: chased me. And that's one of the weird parts about it, right.

705
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 3: I Mean, there's many ideas that I've gone after, Like

706
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: you know, you guys of course, have gone and gone

707
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 3: and developed and researched and were chasing. These are things

708
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 3: that chase me. And I wasn't really wanting them to

709
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: chase me, but they as I got more deeply in

710
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,880
Speaker 3: the you know, you would feel this this interest and

711
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 3: also this kind of rror, you know, a frision about

712
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 3: it that because it felt ultra it felt outside, you know,

713
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 3: And that's that's the when you said you're talking to

714
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: you about your story. That's the feeling that was that

715
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 3: was awakened in me about this memory, which I had

716
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 3: really not thought about for many years. In all honesty,

717
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 3: one of the sception.

718
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: You just said is how seductive it was. You said

719
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: it was very seductive, and I'm just I'd like to

720
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: define that a little bit more for our audience. I mean,

721
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: I think both Brent and I could be I mean,

722
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: I think all of us when somebody approaches you like that,

723
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: you sort of part of you, no matter how scared

724
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: you might be or how strange it is, You're also

725
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: saying I must be special, right Exactly, They've sought me

726
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: out because I'm special, and of course who doesn't want

727
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: to feel special? So i'd be part of the decision

728
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: process is asking yourself.

729
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: Am I really special?

730
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: Or is it just the position I have right now

731
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:21,720
Speaker 1: that's special?

732
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 3: Or exactly?

733
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: Walk me through your process of trying to separate the

734
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: way they were coming at you psychologically with how you

735
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 1: finally said I'm not doing this.

736
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: Well, first, you're very flattered. I mean, it's it feels like, oh,

737
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 3: I hit some I hit some chords here. You know,

738
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,320
Speaker 3: I plucked the right chords. And obviously I'm really smart

739
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 3: because I'm plucking the right chords and some of the

740
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 3: things I'm talking about are actually maybe true or are

741
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 3: related to something that's very true. And at first you're,

742
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 3: you know, as a storyteller, you get, as they say

743
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 3: in Australia, chuffed, you know, chuffed about that. You know,

744
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 3: you could wow, okay, man, you know, I got my

745
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 3: hands on the pulse or something, you know, But then

746
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 3: you wonder, what is it the pulse.

747
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: Of I just want to get one thing in here,

748
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: because I'm afraid people that are listening are going to

749
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,359
Speaker 1: say I just want to make really clear, Like it

750
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: was clear to me and Brent what they wanted us

751
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: to do. They wanted to give us stuff, information that

752
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: we would somehow write into the show as part of

753
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: a slow drip disclosure. So the guys that approached us

754
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: were not confusing about it their mission. A lot of

755
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 1: things were confusing, but the mission seemed clear.

756
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the things that's different. What did

757
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 3: they want you to do? Exactly? That they were more

758
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: wanting me to be part of something that then they

759
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 3: would be sort of feeding me, like the idea that

760
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,840
Speaker 3: I'd be fed information and that I could incorporate that

761
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 3: information into my storytelling as a storyteller. Because again I

762
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 3: was a singular director, writer, you know, and it was

763
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: working in this realm and it didn't get as specific.

764
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,760
Speaker 3: You guys had a network show you know that was going.

765
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 2: We had a live platform, the.

766
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 3: Data, so they could be very concrete with you. It's like, well,

767
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 3: let's use this platform. They were much more Again, it

768
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 3: was more like a seduction of me becoming part of

769
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 3: something that would be ongoing for my whole career. That's

770
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 3: how they made it feel to me, like you could

771
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: be part of you know connected, you know, and and

772
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 3: and because because you're so precient you could be connected

773
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 3: to something, We're going to give you an edge. That

774
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 3: was the seduction.

775
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: Were you supposed to be part of this simulation? Were

776
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 1: you going to be assigned to that? Or was that

777
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: just to show you the bells and whistles?

778
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:42,920
Speaker 3: That was just to show me the bells that that was.

779
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 3: That was for me in my research of virtual reality,

780
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: written large because I was making a movie about it,

781
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 3: right so, and I was very fascinating. I continued to

782
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 3: research virtual reality and I'm you know, to all the

783
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: way to where I'm doing actual virtual reality and healthcare now,

784
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 3: you know, I mean it's storytelling with virtual reality turned

785
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 3: into you know, a kind of life focus of using

786
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: simulation in a healing way. One of my friends, doctor

787
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,759
Speaker 3: Skip Rizzo, he saw the lawnmar Man, you know, thirty

788
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 3: some years ago. He then was inspired by it because

789
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 3: it had to do with virtually changing brain chemistry changing,

790
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: you know, the neuroplasticity of the brain was actually shown

791
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 3: in the film. These were pretty advanced concepts, and he

792
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 3: he got inspired to take his therapeutic research in that direction.

793
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 3: He's run the ICT lab at USC for twenty five

794
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: years and has been at the primary VR clinician on

795
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 3: the planet. He's one of my co founders in my company,

796
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 3: Ubiquity VX, which is using virtual therapies for health and wellness.

797
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 3: So and there's and and by the way, the Veterans

798
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:56,840
Speaker 3: Administration is incredibly involved with that because they utilize thirty

799
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 3: to forty virtual therapies uh in their in their corpus

800
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,919
Speaker 3: of care. And so it's ah, and again do these

801
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: is this thing from the past connected to how I

802
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 3: mean think about it. I'm a director, I'm involved with

803
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 3: real virtual reality in therapy. You know. That's a strange

804
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 3: career path. Yeah, I'm saying, you know, I mean, I'm

805
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 3: in healthcare, you know. And by the way, it's been

806
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: an amazing journey. I I'm it's it's it's uh turning

807
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,320
Speaker 3: out to be a very successful thing that we're developing

808
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: and you know, right now in a very incredible process.

809
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 3: And uh, you know it's so for something that started

810
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 3: for me as a story, I've walked into the reality

811
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 3: of it and I'm doing the real thing in a

812
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:47,319
Speaker 3: very specific sensibility, which is the sensibility of using it

813
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 3: for healing, you know, So which by the way, is

814
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 3: because doctor skip Rizzo inspired me with his work.

815
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 2: To go in that direction. Yeah, you know, fascinating, But it's.

816
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 3: All those things are connected into the government in some way.

817
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 3: I mean I'm saying. I mean, if again, if I

818
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 3: look at the strangeness of my career, I'm wondering, are

819
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 3: there invisible hands in there somewhere, you know, in not

820
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 3: just guiding me, but also guiding where it gets taken?

821
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 3: Because it seems strange that I would actually have these

822
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 3: things come. You know, you don't usually tell a story

823
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 3: and then suddenly you're involved with the actual reality of

824
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: that story, you know, thirty years later, and it's a

825
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: kind of trippy, almost psychedelic experience in a lonesty.

826
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,919
Speaker 2: Absolutely. But on the topic of telling stories, you said

827
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 2: something which is fascinating to me. You said that when

828
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 2: you would tell your story, you would really just distill

829
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: it down to the dossier. Yes, I'm curious, a how

830
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: many times had you told the full story everything you

831
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 2: just told us before now? And if you didn't tell it,

832
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 2: you know, in whole how come.

833
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 3: I felt I needed to be in it during the

834
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 3: earlier part of my life. Anyway, in a very intimate

835
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 3: level of relationship with someone to tell that story. First

836
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 3: of all, I don't know if they would have believe it.

837
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 3: I didn't want to tell something that sounded like some

838
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 3: bullshit story, right, And so there's only really a couple

839
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 3: people that I had very close relationships with. But I

840
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 3: told that story too fully in the past, primarily some

841
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:27,799
Speaker 3: of my partners. But when you told your story, it

842
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 3: activated a whole other thing in me. It was I realized, Oh,

843
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 3: now's the time to tell out and tell the story.

844
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 3: Now's the time to deal with this. I mean, if

845
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 3: not now, when you know this is the this is

846
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 3: the you know, this phase of my life and my career,

847
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 3: and you know I am a storyteller, and this is

848
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 3: a true experience that I had, and it's schemes to

849
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 3: be connected to something that's going on right now that's

850
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 3: much much, much larger, because I feel like we're on

851
00:47:54,440 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: the cut the precipice of a quickening regarding the alien question.

852
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: I just feel that that's we're in the middle of

853
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 3: it in a way that's different than the other times

854
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 3: we may have felt that in the past. It feels

855
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 3: by the.

856
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: Way when you say the quickening, I remember Art Bell

857
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 1: wrote that book a book called The Quickening.

858
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 3: Yes, matter of fact, I was. I was at a

859
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 3: party with Art Bell at the very beginning of my

860
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: career called the Mad SCIENTI this weekend put on by

861
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 3: Marilyn Ferguson, the woman who wrote The Crack and the

862
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: Cosmic Gig. And it was this crazy called it was

863
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 3: called the Mad Sign This weekend. It was at this

864
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 3: this multimillionaire's mansion in Atherton, you know, near the Names

865
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 3: Research Center by the way, you know, And and Art

866
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: Bell was there and I talked to him about some

867
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 3: of these things. But this is before I made the

868
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 3: Longer Man, way before you know he was he was,

869
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 3: you know, towards the end of his life at that time.

870
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 3: But anyway, what so you told that up? You told

871
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 3: us the name of Bob. I'm just did you tell

872
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: us the name of your contact? Again? I can't remember?

873
00:48:58,719 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 3: You just can't remember it.

874
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: That leads me to ask another question, though, because this

875
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: is you know, brend and I have selectively told a

876
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 1: few people about the story. But then we started talking

877
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 1: a little bit publicly, but never in the detail that

878
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: we have obviously right now. And one of the things

879
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: that has come to light when we talk about it

880
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: now is. Occasionally I have somebody go well, did you

881
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: ask for identification? And I go, uh no, Now, I'm

882
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 1: a I'm a journalist by training.

883
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

884
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: The very first thing I should have done is said, okay,

885
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: you're you're from the Office of Naval Intelligence, show me something,

886
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: show me your ID, show me your military I D

887
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: And all I can say is, in the middle of

888
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 1: this weirdness, it just never seemed like you know what.

889
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 3: I never did. I did ask for it, though, good

890
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,520
Speaker 3: for you, I was. He would get that little twinkle

891
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 3: in his eye, Okay, it would, it would, and he goes, well,

892
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 3: you might say the c i A, you know, and

893
00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, well do you Well, I'm not going to,

894
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: you know, can't. We're not at that phase yet. And

895
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,239
Speaker 3: then I'm like, well, what really it come on? And

896
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 3: then he again, he eventually landed on the end as

897
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: if he was sort of like giving me the real thing,

898
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,800
Speaker 3: the NSA that was that was his way of giving

899
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 3: and I had not even I had barely heard of

900
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 3: the NSA at that point. I mean, I didn't, you know,

901
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 3: I had to study what that was, you know, and

902
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 3: how it came out of signal intelligence in the you know,

903
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 3: World War Two and all the you know the history

904
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: of that, and it's a very weird, arcane history, even

905
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 3: compared to the CIA history.

906
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: You know, tell our audience what you mean by signal intelligence.

907
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 3: Well, that means you know, the capturing of of coded signals,

908
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 3: you know, the Enigma Project. Those are the kinds of

909
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 3: things that became the NSA. Uh you know, I mean

910
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 3: obviously in Europe there were other versions of it, but

911
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 3: in America it became the NSA and they basically look

912
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 3: at all the signal I mean I think uh uh

913
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 3: Snodent worked for the NSA, you know that that was

914
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,600
Speaker 3: that that that that whole area of surveillance, of capturing.

915
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 3: You know, if you look at what Palenteer is, Palenteer

916
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: to me seems like a private organization, you know, extension

917
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 3: of what the NSA was or is, you know, and

918
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,640
Speaker 3: where one one ends and another begins, who knows, given

919
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 3: what's going on right now in our body politic, so

920
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 3: it's almost like they're really doing it but lying about it.

921
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 3: You know, it's just the whole thing right now I

922
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 3: believe we're on is all part of this quickening we're

923
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 3: talking about where you know, where a lot of things

924
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 3: are coming to the fore in relation to surveillance, privacy,

925
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 3: signal intelligence, and possibly underpinning all of it is this

926
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 3: alien question.

927
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: If you're going to talk about the quickening, and you

928
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,160
Speaker 1: know what that kind of means is, there's just a

929
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: sense that things are in the air that are happening.

930
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: There's a couple of things.

931
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: I just have to ask you, because I'll hate myself

932
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: if I don't ask it in this time. First, if

933
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: you had a if out of nowhere Bob showed up

934
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: again right now and said, hey man, we want to

935
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: have another lunch or a dinner. And you go to

936
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: that meeting and this guy is there and he says, okay,

937
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: you know I heard you doing the sound, Light and

938
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 1: Frequency podcast. That sounded very interesting. No offense, not taking

939
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: any fence, but how would you like to take us

940
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: up on our offer?

941
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 3: Now?

942
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: What would you tell that person?

943
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 3: I might, I might go down that rabbit hole. I might.

944
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 2: What's changed? What's changed?

945
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,360
Speaker 3: What changes? I think that here's what's changed. I think

946
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,759
Speaker 3: that the black and white version of the world that

947
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,880
Speaker 3: I may have had as a younger person, I don't

948
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 3: have that black and white version anymore. It's very much

949
00:52:46,480 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 3: a lot of grays and other tones and colors. And

950
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 3: I think that there are probably pretty amazing people or

951
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 3: non people involved with things that may be connected in

952
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 3: a way that would connect to my own own, for

953
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 3: lack of a better term, light, sound and frequency, you know,

954
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 3: at the core of my soul, you know. And if

955
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,840
Speaker 3: I felt there was an alignment, a soul alignment, or

956
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: you know, for lack of a better term, an ethical

957
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 3: alignment and moral alignment, however someone would want to express

958
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 3: it for me, it would I would express it literally

959
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 3: as a spiritual alignment. I would I would want to

960
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 3: go there as part of my own spiritual journey. So,

961
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 3: because part of my journey has been looking at other

962
00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:32,279
Speaker 3: you know, other worldly mystical energies, I've experienced a lot

963
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 3: of things in my search for you know, just all

964
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 3: the crazy paradoxes that exist in our in our reality,

965
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 3: in our world. And this is such a potent one

966
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 3: and such a juicy one. I don't think I could

967
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 3: resist to tell you the truth.

968
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: Over the years, Brent, you and I have gotten together

969
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,279
Speaker 1: and off and on on various projects we've worked on,

970
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 1: and every once in a while we're discussing it. Our

971
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: minds kind of drift, and we kind of think, what

972
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: would our lives have been like if we said yes,

973
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:08,760
Speaker 1: that's so exactly something bread my friend, If that's my question,

974
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: when you lay awake at night and you moll in

975
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 1: your mind, what would have happened if I said yes,

976
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 1: that was thirty some years ago for you, Yeah, it

977
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: was Okay, we're not the same person. But and in fact,

978
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: you're a person who said no thirty years ago, and

979
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,879
Speaker 1: so now you're saying maybe this time I would. Let's

980
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,120
Speaker 1: imagine for a second you'd said yes, what would your

981
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:33,120
Speaker 1: life be like today in your opinion?

982
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:39,440
Speaker 3: You know, I've I've considered like, would that have supercharged

983
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 3: my career? Would that have destroyed my career? Would that have?

984
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 3: You go all the different ways with it in terms

985
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,439
Speaker 3: of you know, when you're in the middle of the night,

986
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 3: facing the facing the dark ceiling, you know, it's like

987
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: you're just you're thinking all the different possibilities and and

988
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,320
Speaker 3: you go, I wonder if there are others that it

989
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,239
Speaker 3: said yeah, yes, that I'm very aware of and that

990
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:07,839
Speaker 3: are out there doing things connected to that. And then

991
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: you look at what Steven Spielberg's doing right now with

992
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 3: they have disclosure and everything else he's done, you know,

993
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 3: in the realm of and you go. I bet he said, yes.

994
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,319
Speaker 1: Did you have anybody in your life, Brett, was there

995
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: anybody in your life important in your life when this

996
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 1: went down that you went to them and said, yes,

997
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: you got it. I gotta tell you, because I'm sure

998
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:32,840
Speaker 1: Brent and I each were you know, probably talked to

999
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: our significant others at the time, but mostly to ourselves.

1000
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: And at least Brent and I had somebody to talk to.

1001
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: You had to bring somebody in tell us how that

1002
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: went down.

1003
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 3: So my partner, Jamille Everett, who was also the writer

1004
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 3: co writer of Lomerman, was the producer of Lomerman, was

1005
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 3: both my wife, my first wife, and my filmmaking partner.

1006
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,719
Speaker 3: We broke into Hollywood together from nowhere, from nothing. Brent,

1007
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 3: you knew Jamil, Yes, yes, And Jamil was an extremely

1008
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,920
Speaker 3: spiritual person. Okay, she was a master Yoghini. You know

1009
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 3: her whole life. She was really raised me as a

1010
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 3: spiritual person, as a man and as a filmmaker. She

1011
00:56:20,239 --> 00:56:24,440
Speaker 3: passed on about fifteen years ago, almost twenty now, and

1012
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 3: she was extremely influential in my life and was my

1013
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 3: partner in all of these early adventures, and of course

1014
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 3: I went directly to hear with this, and she kind

1015
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: of agreed that we should leave it alone. Was she

1016
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 3: felt in her instincts there was something there that could

1017
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 3: have been stabilizing. And we're truly you know again, you

1018
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: think about we're just we just made our first hit movie.

1019
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 3: We're trying to solidify what that means in our life.

1020
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,360
Speaker 3: And as you know, filmmakers, of course, at that point,

1021
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 3: the career in filmmaking was everything. It was something that

1022
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 3: felt like a direction. In some ways, maybe it was.

1023
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: And she was someone that I think persuaded me, not

1024
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 3: in a really drastic way, because she wasn't someone who

1025
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 3: was scared. He was scared of much. She was a

1026
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 3: very fierce, intense person, but she did I think was

1027
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 3: part of me sort of walking away from it.

1028
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:22,960
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, Brent. Yes, when you

1029
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: hear Brett tell this story and how he felt and everything,

1030
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: how is it changing how you feel about her own

1031
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: experience or has it?

1032
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 2: It's kind of affirming a lot of my own feelings

1033
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 2: and sensibilities that I also had a hard time articulating.

1034
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 2: To me, the word I would use was surreal. Yes,

1035
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 2: And and you know, obviously you're at your premiere party

1036
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 2: for your first show on network television and a guy

1037
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: comes out of the bushes and start wants to start

1038
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: talking about a deal with the government. Like I just

1039
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,200
Speaker 2: I was not prepared in any way, shape or form

1040
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 2: to have that conversation. But he seemed like it was

1041
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 2: the most ordinary thing to be having this, Like why

1042
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,040
Speaker 2: wouldn't we be having this conversation?

1043
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 3: And then that's where that's where my experience was similar.

1044
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 3: They were very much very like, Hey, this is just

1045
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 3: you know, this is what happens man, what happens with what? When? Oh,

1046
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 3: when you're doing? What kind of thing you're doing? Oh? Okay?

1047
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 3: And that I mean I think he did reference. You know,

1048
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 3: not many people do what you do. Remember, not many

1049
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 3: people make hit films. Not many people get a concept

1050
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:35,040
Speaker 3: out into the world that you know, is going to

1051
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 3: you know, affect technology and these kinds of things. I'm like, okay,

1052
00:58:39,720 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 3: I guess you're right, you know, so again that's part

1053
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:42,720
Speaker 3: of the seduction.

1054
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. I also think too, that the other aspect of

1055
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 2: this that is fascinating. It's it's harder to articulate, you know.

1056
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 2: When Bryce and I were both telling our story in

1057
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 2: episode one, we made you know, we brought to the

1058
00:58:57,320 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 2: surface effect that he remembers seeing JC differently in terms

1059
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 2: of how he was dressed than I did. Right, So

1060
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,240
Speaker 2: you go, was that just the rassam On effect or

1061
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 2: is there something about a guy like this that has

1062
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 2: a weird aura around where it's just hard to remember

1063
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: certain details.

1064
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:20,640
Speaker 3: Let me talk to that because as we've been talking

1065
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 3: just now, because uh, Bryce, you asked me a couple

1066
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: of times, did you not remember this guy's name? Yeah?

1067
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 3: I have a very good memory. I am not someone

1068
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 3: who doesn't remember details. I mean I made giant technological films.

1069
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 3: You have to have a good memory. I mean it's

1070
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 3: you know, you you just have to have that facility

1071
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 3: with facts and with things. And so the fact I

1072
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 3: can't remember him exactly, it is weird.

1073
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 2: It is weird.

1074
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 3: It's like, it's weird. I would usually absolutely remember that guy, right,

1075
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 3: and and think of that almost in a photographic memory sense,

1076
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 3: that that that card and it's an I can't see

1077
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:07,160
Speaker 3: his name. So what you do with the card? It

1078
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 3: went with the winds of the winds kind of what

1079
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 3: happened to you exactly? Just it just got put somewhere

1080
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 3: and then who knows that many many.

1081
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: Changes, as our audience knows. We did have the first encounter,

1082
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: if you will, our close encounter at our party. But

1083
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: then JC came out to the Dark Guy's offices with

1084
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,959
Speaker 1: his so called boss and they proceeded to brief us.

1085
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: So we had about an hour and a half conversation

1086
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: with two guys who were floating we're not going to

1087
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:42,960
Speaker 1: get into that right now, but they were floating their

1088
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: version of what was going on in the nature of

1089
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: reality and the universe and all that, right, So in

1090
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: other words, they weren't actually looking for us to tell

1091
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 1: to tell them anything. They just want to know if

1092
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:57,040
Speaker 1: we wanted in, and they were sort of floating ideas

1093
01:00:57,080 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: to us. Did the gentleman you met with ever flowed

1094
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,160
Speaker 1: any ideas about the what was going on with this

1095
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: whole UFO issue or or did it not get into

1096
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:09,560
Speaker 1: that detail?

1097
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 3: No, he did. He he was The overall tenor of

1098
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 3: it was that you're onto something. You are somebody who

1099
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 3: sees the truth. This is part of the seduction again,

1100
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 3: right And because of that, as a storyteller, you know,

1101
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,800
Speaker 3: and your prescience, you could be useful and I think

1102
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 3: we could be useful to you. That was the context

1103
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 3: for me. It was in the context of, you know,

1104
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 3: almost like of course you believe in aliens, you know,

1105
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 3: and you know, again, I love job owning about all

1106
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 3: kinds of things, and we job owned about interdimensional concepts,

1107
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,959
Speaker 3: and you know, the idea of you know, not being

1108
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: metal ships, as Jeff Goblum says in the Philip Kaufman's

1109
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,680
Speaker 3: remake of the Invasion of the Body Statures, you know,

1110
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,640
Speaker 3: it's like, it's not about metal ships, It's about something

1111
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 3: beyond metal. It's about something that is interdimensional in nature.

1112
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 3: And I did talk to those kinds of concepts with him,

1113
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 3: almost in that you know, speed wrappy kind of wild,

1114
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 3: you know, having a wild conversation with a friend idea,

1115
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 3: you know, a way of being. And he would nod

1116
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 3: his head and go, yes, again, you you're onto it,

1117
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:28,320
Speaker 3: as if he was confirming that I was onto the

1118
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 3: nature of reality. Now I took that with a grain

1119
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 3: of salt, and I felt like it was more of

1120
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 3: a seduction, and so I would I didn't, you know,

1121
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:40,080
Speaker 3: I didn't let my I didn't let that totally work

1122
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 3: for me. I was I let I kind of became

1123
01:02:42,320 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 3: skeptical of the fact that he was using that technique

1124
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 3: in some ways.

1125
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 1: So we are at the end of our line there,

1126
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,800
Speaker 1: but we can't. We can't let this end without asking

1127
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: you just one basic question. Sure, you've had a long

1128
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: time to think about this, as as we have of

1129
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 1: and as many of our listeners have given great amounts

1130
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: of time and research and study to thinking about this.

1131
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, now knowing everything, you know,

1132
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: the experiences you've had, this conversation, this reawakening in your

1133
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 1: mind about Wow, that really happened to me, what do

1134
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: you think two parts? I guess what is going on

1135
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:27,000
Speaker 1: in terms of the secrecy around this that probably is

1136
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 1: going on today, But even more than that, what do

1137
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: you think is the nature of what we're dealing with

1138
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: when it comes to this phenomenon? What do you think's

1139
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: going on?

1140
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I think that the secrecy has been something

1141
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 3: that had to be kept in place because of the

1142
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 3: idea of societal disruption. And maybe they're right about that,

1143
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 3: maybe that was a wise thing to do. I think

1144
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 3: we're coming to a point of kind of chaos theory

1145
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,600
Speaker 3: where everything is so mutable in our culture, the idea

1146
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 3: that truth isn't truth anymore, and that you know, there's

1147
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 3: not one truth but multiple truths. And you know, I

1148
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 3: like to say one of my favorite phrases is the

1149
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 3: truth is in the paradox, you know, because there's so

1150
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:17,400
Speaker 3: many paradoxical things in modern culture and in the idea

1151
01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 3: of human consciousness and how we experience it. At this point,

1152
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 3: with you know, almost eight billion of us on the planet,

1153
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,200
Speaker 3: that we're coming to this quickening, that we're coming to

1154
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 3: a moment where the fabric of the that's been that's

1155
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 3: been accluding, that is dissolving, The veils are dissolving, and

1156
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 3: there's a there's a truth there that's beyond what I

1157
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:45,480
Speaker 3: think we could even possibly imagine. And that to me

1158
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,360
Speaker 3: is incredibly exciting because if I can totally imagine it

1159
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 3: right now, how boring is that? Right?

1160
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:51,640
Speaker 2: Right?

1161
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 3: I want to actually discover something. I want to be surprised. Now,

1162
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily want to be surprised, and you're all

1163
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 3: going to become food and food tubes. I don't want

1164
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 3: to be surprised.

1165
01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: That want a good surprise, or at least one that

1166
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 1: has multivariate nature to it, right, And I think that

1167
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: we're on the cusp of something that truly relates to

1168
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: some of the largest questions why we're here, what really

1169
01:05:20,800 --> 01:05:21,600
Speaker 1: is existence?

1170
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 3: Life and death? Those questions related to the idea of alienness,

1171
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: I believe is something that the veils are going to

1172
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:36,120
Speaker 3: dissolve away and are going to be more connected than

1173
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 3: ever now. I think there's going to be different lanes

1174
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 3: of the highway that you could sort of come on.

1175
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 3: There's there's a there's an apocalyptic lane over here, and

1176
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 3: you could choose to be in that, and that's like

1177
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 3: a you know, a million car pile up, and then

1178
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 3: there's the fast lane over here. You can just shoot

1179
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 3: past that and go into a whole other different reality.

1180
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 3: It's all a choice of your own consciousness and what

1181
01:05:59,360 --> 01:06:03,160
Speaker 3: it's going to be perceiving as the truth as relates

1182
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 3: to your own deepest essence, and that I think is

1183
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 3: the moment we're and that's what I mean by the

1184
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:09,880
Speaker 3: moment of the quickening.

1185
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 2: I think that's a fantastic interpretation of things. I tend

1186
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:16,960
Speaker 2: to agree with a lot of it, and I think

1187
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:19,720
Speaker 2: this is a great place to end the conversation because

1188
01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,720
Speaker 2: I don't know how we can top it. So I

1189
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 2: just want to say thank you so much Brett for

1190
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,240
Speaker 2: remembering your story and then actually agreeing to come on

1191
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: and share it with us in our audience.

1192
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 3: And thank you for activating it in me, because it's

1193
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 3: actually been a very positive thing that this has been

1194
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,440
Speaker 3: activated in me again because it is something that I

1195
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,840
Speaker 3: held kind of in a secret place and now it's

1196
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 3: definitely not secret.

1197
01:06:41,960 --> 01:06:44,520
Speaker 1: Now it is no longer secret. I can promise you

1198
01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: that thank you for having the courage to let it out.

1199
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: We really do appreciate it. Yeah, no, provin it's been

1200
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,040
Speaker 1: and wonderful. Will be in touch you guys right, Let's.

1201
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:54,439
Speaker 3: See all.

1202
01:06:59,240 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: Sound, Light, and Frequency is an iHeart podcast produced by

1203
01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 1: Stellar Productions. It's executive produced by Nick Johnson and for

1204
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,600
Speaker 1: Stellar Jackie's Abel. Our show's music was written by Anna

1205
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:13,400
Speaker 1: Stuff and Hamilton Lighthouser. And your hosts and executive producers

1206
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,720
Speaker 1: are Bryce Abel, That's Me and Brent Friedman. Watch the

1207
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: GUIs