WEBVTT - Is There a Smarter Way to Pay Your Taxes?

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Merin Talks Your Money, the personal finance Edion

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<v Speaker 2>of Merin Talks Money and these bonus podcasts we talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the best strategies for making the most of your money.

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<v Speaker 2>Am Arion, Sunset Web and with me today as ever

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<v Speaker 2>senior reporter and Money Just author John Staback.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi John, Hi, man, Hey doing.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm very well. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you excited watching the bitcoin price go up? We're

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<v Speaker 2>not talking about that today, by the way, I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to see how excited you are.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm deeply excited. If excitement can be reframed as deep,

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<v Speaker 4>deep regret and envy and simmering rage against all the

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<v Speaker 4>other people who own it, and I don't, okay, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Feel they need to point out that while I am

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<v Speaker 2>being constantly, constantly attacked on Twitter for being a little

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<v Speaker 2>down on bitcoin, I do have.

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<v Speaker 3>An insurance holding. So those of you abusing.

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<v Speaker 2>Me on Twitter, just so you know, I share in

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<v Speaker 2>your joy a tiny little bit, which doesn't mean I've

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<v Speaker 2>changed my mind.

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<v Speaker 3>By the way, We'll come back to that another time. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>What we're going to talk about this week is something

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<v Speaker 2>that I think you've heard quite a lot of chatter

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<v Speaker 2>chatter about over the last couple of months as we've

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<v Speaker 2>known that taxes are going to go up, and oh

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<v Speaker 2>they have gone up.

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<v Speaker 3>And in this context, John, we're going to start with

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<v Speaker 3>a trick question.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, listeners, I'd love to know if any of

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<v Speaker 2>you get this before John does. The answer is not

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<v Speaker 2>the one you think it is. John, What did Nicholas

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<v Speaker 2>Durgeon and hums the use of have in common?

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<v Speaker 4>No? Sorry, does this one getting edited before it goes out?

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<v Speaker 3>We always had it swear words? But that's it. But

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to give you a clip.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not that they were really bad first ministers of Scotland.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not that.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's not just that.

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<v Speaker 3>No.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, actually, you know what I'm going to have to see.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm going to cheat her because I saw you tweeting

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<v Speaker 4>about this.

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<v Speaker 3>You have got to stay off Twitter. You spent twit

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<v Speaker 3>twit and more. Stops talking me on Twitter. John, leave

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<v Speaker 3>that to the bitcoin bros. Okay, it's called following. Oh okay, sorry, anyway,

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<v Speaker 3>The answer.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, they both personal services companies. Is that my ability

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<v Speaker 4>companies and that enabled them to avoid paying some streets

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<v Speaker 4>of income tax on the part of their income.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, absolutely so, just because I know everyone loves to

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<v Speaker 2>read from the Daily Mail Sturgeon and yourself and tax

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<v Speaker 2>storm after setting up private companies to handle outside earnings.

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<v Speaker 3>So critics can't think you they are have raised.

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<v Speaker 2>Concerns over whether the arrangement allows the two former First

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<v Speaker 2>ministers to avoid playing the punishing tax rates with which

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<v Speaker 2>they clobbered hard working taxes. The setup could allow them

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<v Speaker 2>to pay Westminster controlled corporation tax on their outside earnings

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<v Speaker 2>instead of the Scottish rate of income tax. Last night,

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<v Speaker 2>Scottish Conservative chairman Craig who he said, humsy use off

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<v Speaker 2>at Nicholas Durgeon's continuity candidate to replace her as First Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>and now he's following her lead again by setting up

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<v Speaker 2>a company for his outside earnings. Whoof yep, I want

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<v Speaker 2>to rely on the Daily Mail to pick this stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>Uph you have to admire the tax efficiency.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, If only everyone had the ability to manage

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<v Speaker 2>their money as tax efficiently as Nicholas Durgeon and Humsy Yusef. Now, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it may be that what they don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>or maybe they do know, is that personal services company

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<v Speaker 2>is not quite as efficient as.

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<v Speaker 3>They used to be.

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<v Speaker 2>So the question we're actually answering this week is from Nick,

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<v Speaker 2>Can I set up a limited company to save on tax?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to do here, as we're going to start

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<v Speaker 2>by talking about what a personal service company is, and

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<v Speaker 2>the answer is no, one really quite knows.

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<v Speaker 3>There's no legal definition for it.

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<v Speaker 2>But while we're talking about and I've actually have gone

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<v Speaker 2>on to the House of Commons library to look this up,

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<v Speaker 2>it's usually taken to me in a limited company, the

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<v Speaker 2>sole or main shareholder of which is also its director, who,

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<v Speaker 2>instead of working directly for clients or taking up employment

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<v Speaker 2>with other businesses, operate through their own company.

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<v Speaker 3>Now that means that when you get paid, you're paid.

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<v Speaker 2>Without income tax or national insurance contributions being deducted. It

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<v Speaker 2>goes straight into your company, as any payment for any

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<v Speaker 2>service would.

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<v Speaker 3>Why is that a good thing? There are various.

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<v Speaker 2>Tax advantages to it. So, first thing, you can set

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<v Speaker 2>many more expenses against the income inside a company than

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<v Speaker 2>you can against your personal taxable income. So a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people spend a lot of time figuring out how

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<v Speaker 2>to put as much of their life expenses as possible

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<v Speaker 2>against their company. And there are gray areas all over

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<v Speaker 2>that there's also a cash flow benefit. You know, your

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<v Speaker 2>tax is not deducted at a so you can choose

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<v Speaker 2>when you take income and when you pay tax. The

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<v Speaker 2>biggest benefit to that being that you can earn when

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<v Speaker 2>you are a higher and popped in the company and

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<v Speaker 2>withdraw possibly later on when you're a lower runner and

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<v Speaker 2>subject to a lower rate of tax. And then of

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<v Speaker 2>course you can pay yourself dividends and they are not

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<v Speaker 2>subject to natural insurance. So there's all sorts of bits

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<v Speaker 2>and bobs going on here.

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<v Speaker 4>So just to clarify, because I mean, there's definitely one

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<v Speaker 4>way of any duty to take the lead. But basically

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<v Speaker 4>from the outside, it sounds to me like you can

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<v Speaker 4>smooth your earnings and you can pay a lower rate

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<v Speaker 4>of tax than if you're a paye or not at

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<v Speaker 4>least in the first instance.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so, and you can also do things like you

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<v Speaker 2>have you have set up a company, you have two

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<v Speaker 2>shareholders if you're part of a couple, right, if two shareholders,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you can both keep your income below a

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<v Speaker 2>certain level, maybe below fifty thousand pounds so you can

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<v Speaker 2>keep taking child benefit, although one hundred thousand pounds that

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<v Speaker 2>you don't get into the horrible marginal tax race that

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<v Speaker 2>you write about all the time, John, If you haven't,

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<v Speaker 2>by the way, everyone going look at John's writing on

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<v Speaker 2>this is it's fascinating and also absolutely terrifying. So the

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<v Speaker 2>main benefit here in the first instance, as you say,

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<v Speaker 2>is that you can smooth well the two main benefits.

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<v Speaker 2>You can smooth the income over very long periods and

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<v Speaker 2>to take it at the moment that most tax efficient,

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<v Speaker 2>al most convenient for you. And then of course, if

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<v Speaker 2>you are a lower income taxpayer, you can do things

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<v Speaker 2>like take the first part of your income up to

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<v Speaker 2>the tax free allowance and then take the next bit

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<v Speaker 2>as a dividend, so that can keep.

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<v Speaker 3>Down your overall tax payment.

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<v Speaker 2>But there are other things to say here, which is

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<v Speaker 2>that the benefits of having a company like this have

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<v Speaker 2>really really fallen over the last little while. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>obviously the dividend allowances fall. And it used to be

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<v Speaker 2>that you could take five thousand pounds in back in

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<v Speaker 2>I think twenty fifteen sixteen, you could take five thousand

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<v Speaker 2>pounds in dividend before you paid a penny of tax.

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<v Speaker 2>Right if you added that to your income tax personal allowance,

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<v Speaker 2>it's quite a lot that you could pull out without

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<v Speaker 2>paying anything except for your corporation tax, which by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>is also rising. Now your dividend allowance is down to

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred pounds, whereas they had gone up with inflation

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<v Speaker 2>from twenty sixteen, it would be well over six thousand pounds,

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<v Speaker 2>six thousand, six or seven hundred pounds.

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<v Speaker 3>So you know that's changed.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, one point there because I hadn't Again, I didn't

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<v Speaker 4>fully understand this sat at the time. But the reason

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<v Speaker 4>because I remember, whenever that dividend allowance changed, small investors

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<v Speaker 4>felt that they did the right kicking the teeth because

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<v Speaker 4>obviously it's dividends from shares, but the actual they were

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<v Speaker 4>kind of collateral damage from because this move was aimed

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<v Speaker 4>at people who were putting the you know, bluntly taking

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<v Speaker 4>like they say, this says a loophole territory. It's a

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<v Speaker 4>loophole because you know the government has made it ridiculously complicated.

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<v Speaker 4>But this kind of thing is you know, disguised employment

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<v Speaker 4>is what we're talking about. And that's why, Yes, the

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<v Speaker 4>dividends alone, isn't it. It's not. Yes, it wasn't to

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<v Speaker 4>target small shareholders in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>It was not target share small shoholders. But there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a lot done over the years to try and deal

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<v Speaker 2>with the avoidance through personal companies. So we had IR

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five, which tried to prevent disguised employment. So there

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<v Speaker 2>was a period when an awful lot of people who

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<v Speaker 2>were really employees of companies were paid through companies in

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<v Speaker 2>order to reduce their their tax levels. And that obviously

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<v Speaker 2>was you know, a fairly major tax avoidance. So IR

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<v Speaker 2>thirty five was put in place to prevent that happening. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were also no I was going to say,

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<v Speaker 2>there used to be. There used to be really, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>so much you could do with the personal servitorce company

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<v Speaker 2>because you could also constantly close it, dissolve it, and

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<v Speaker 2>get entrepreneurs allowance over and over and over again. So

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<v Speaker 2>there was a period when people would set up a

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<v Speaker 2>personal services company I mean pretty much on an annual

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<v Speaker 2>or or every second year's basis, and then they'd dissolve it.

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<v Speaker 2>They'd take the entrepreneurs relief paid ten percent obviously they'd

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<v Speaker 2>already paid corporation tax, but on as little profit as

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<v Speaker 2>they could possibly manage to make it look like they'd

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<v Speaker 2>made and then they set up another company doing the

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<v Speaker 2>same thing, and round and round and round they go.

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<v Speaker 2>And back in the old days that the entrepreneurs allowance

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<v Speaker 2>was very high, went up to ten million at one point,

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<v Speaker 2>and now of course it's down to one million, so

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't work quite as well as it did. And

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<v Speaker 2>of course that loophole was closed, and we got to

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<v Speaker 2>a pointe we weren't allowed to set up another company

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<v Speaker 2>doing the same thing for a certain number of years.

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<v Speaker 2>So little by little, all the loopholes that have allowed

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<v Speaker 2>people to really really do very well out of personal

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<v Speaker 2>services companies have closed.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not as attractive as it was. Miss maybe yes,

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<v Speaker 3>sorry too, teams, I know you missed it. You missed

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<v Speaker 3>another boat there.

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<v Speaker 4>This is why the it guys in your office and

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<v Speaker 4>the nineties were all mented and were driving new cars

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<v Speaker 4>every year then because there was paying absolutely no income

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<v Speaker 4>tax even though they were on in five days a

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<v Speaker 4>week for the same place.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, okay, although forget don't forget that you do

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<v Speaker 2>pay corporation tax. So let's let's look at what happens now.

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<v Speaker 2>So you set up a personal services company now, and

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<v Speaker 2>don't forget that if you do that, there are costs

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<v Speaker 2>to having a company. You have to file accounts. If

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<v Speaker 2>you earn over the VT allounce, you're going to have

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<v Speaker 2>to go through all that. You have to pay an

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<v Speaker 2>account enter either there's there's admin and cost involved here,

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<v Speaker 2>but you set it up and you know, Nicholas Sturgeon

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<v Speaker 2>and and HUMSI userf I'm assuming they're getting some advice here,

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<v Speaker 2>so there must be some gain into.

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<v Speaker 4>It, right, So yeah, there must be some benefit.

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<v Speaker 1>You set them up. And maybe you have a pay

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<v Speaker 1>income somewhere else.

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<v Speaker 3>Maybe maybe perhaps you're you're an MSP, I don't know, so.

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<v Speaker 2>You have an income somewhere else that pushes you up

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<v Speaker 2>into quite a high tax band in Scotland. Your freelance

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<v Speaker 2>income you put inside the company and you leave it

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<v Speaker 2>there until you are no longer.

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<v Speaker 3>Receiving a pay income. Yep.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you can start taking out up to the basic

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<v Speaker 2>allowance tax free, assume you don't have any gum elsewhere,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you can take some dividends etc.

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<v Speaker 3>So that is an.

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<v Speaker 2>Example of how you can smooth your income using a company.

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<v Speaker 2>So there's that, there's the expenses that we talked about earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>There's the splitting income between a couple that we talked

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<v Speaker 2>about earlier. That means you can hang on your child

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<v Speaker 2>benefit and you can prevent yourself getting into the higher

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<v Speaker 2>level marginal rates.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's all that, but the main thing still even now.

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<v Speaker 2>Is probably entrepreneurs relief or business asset disposal relief as

0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:47.880
<v Speaker 2>it's now called. I think it became called that in

0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.320
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty. So even now you can still set up

0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:55.839
<v Speaker 2>your company, hold the money inside it, and close it down,

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.160
<v Speaker 2>dissolve it, and on dissolution, on just before dissolution, you

0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 2>can have any distributions classed as capital gains, and then

0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.079
<v Speaker 2>you can use your capital gains allowance, even though that's

0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.320
<v Speaker 2>not also tiny, and then your entrepreneurs relief.

0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.760
<v Speaker 1>The bad news for it is worth is that that.

0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Too is going up, so to fourteen percent and then

0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:19.080
<v Speaker 2>eventually to eighteen percent. So if you're going to be

0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.600
<v Speaker 2>paying corporation tax at nineteen percent or twenty five percent

0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.840
<v Speaker 2>and then you're going to be paying eighteen percent on

0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 2>your entrepreneurs relief, the benefits do begin to look yeah,

0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:32.079
<v Speaker 2>not really as good as they were.

0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:33.320
<v Speaker 3>It's getting a bit marginal.

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 4>Also, I've read something about I mean, that is so

0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.760
<v Speaker 4>much stuff that the government of the recent years has

0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.000
<v Speaker 4>tried to do to make any of the tactics that

0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:49.480
<v Speaker 4>you could use much much harder laboys like things like

0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.960
<v Speaker 4>money boxing and as something I don't but that which

0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.440
<v Speaker 4>is like not putting too much cash, shot holding too

0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.199
<v Speaker 4>much cash and a company and things like that.

0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well the company.

0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:03.600
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there are rules around the ADR business asse

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.200
<v Speaker 2>it I suppose really if I mean, for example, you

0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:06.960
<v Speaker 2>have to be a trading company to get it.

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:08.560
<v Speaker 3>You can't just stick a whole bit.

0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Of money in a company, keep it there and use

0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.880
<v Speaker 2>it as a as an investment company that works.

0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.200
<v Speaker 3>Got to be trading. So there are all sorts of rules.

0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:16.839
<v Speaker 2>And I know that you know, John, when you and

0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I first heard it out in journalism. Apart from us,

0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I think absolutely everybody else run there and come through

0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.280
<v Speaker 2>a personal services company where we've always been very dim

0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.080
<v Speaker 2>about this stuff or honest one or the other.

0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.160
<v Speaker 4>Well, but also to be fair, the other thing is,

0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.560
<v Speaker 4>and I will say, you know a lot of the

0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.080
<v Speaker 4>people I mean, like the BBC is the classic example.

0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 4>We've seen lots of high profile BBC present us being

0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:43.000
<v Speaker 4>dragged through the tax tribuneal co ops for litterally years

0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 4>and part of that was because basically the BBC insisted

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 4>that they get paid like that, you know, like most

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.560
<v Speaker 4>of these people were not tax experts and you know,

0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.160
<v Speaker 4>didn't spend a lot of time thinking about it. And

0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 4>then the other promise, you know, the less high profile

0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.240
<v Speaker 4>you were, the harder it was to then make the

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.599
<v Speaker 4>case that you were you know, a contractor whenever it

0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:10.120
<v Speaker 4>actually did come up before HMRC. So I think, you know,

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.600
<v Speaker 4>it's not just I can again, it goes back to

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:17.480
<v Speaker 4>this thing of the tax system being too complicated and

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:22.480
<v Speaker 4>people kind of getting caught out despite really not really

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.080
<v Speaker 4>not meaning to do anything bad.

0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:26.720
<v Speaker 3>No, I think that's that's absolutely true.

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 2>And it is also true that there once a period

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:31.880
<v Speaker 2>when an awful lot of companies didn't insist on paying

0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.080
<v Speaker 2>their contracted through personal services companies so that they didn't

0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 2>weren't liable for employers then I which I'm sure they'd

0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 2>love to love to be able to do now.

0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.120
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, well exactly, And you can see why. I mean,

0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:46.760
<v Speaker 4>this is one reason we're talking about this just now,

0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 4>because people are thinking, how you can I possibly avoid

0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, paying all of this you know, mad levels

0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.560
<v Speaker 4>attacks or avoiding marginal rates. But the problem is that,

0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:01.440
<v Speaker 4>as we sort of keep saying, we We've moved from

0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 4>a world where tax avoidance was seen as acceptable as

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.640
<v Speaker 4>opposed to tax evasion, and I very much now in

0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 4>the world we are Anything that is in officially sanctioned

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 4>by the government is eventually going to be made illegal

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.040
<v Speaker 4>or gray area, and you are going to end up

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.760
<v Speaker 4>in front of you know, hmrc FT chatchy and that

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 4>could be like years and years and years of stress.

0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:30.440
<v Speaker 4>And you just don't want it.

0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:31.320
<v Speaker 3>You don't.

0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 2>You don't right now, John and I, I think we've covered

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.440
<v Speaker 2>this pretty well, but just be absolutely clear to everybody.

0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.080
<v Speaker 2>John and I are not accountants. We are not if

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 2>as it is very possible that some of you listening

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.840
<v Speaker 2>will know a great deal more about this than we do,

0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>in which case we would love it if you would

0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 2>let us know. Is there a reason to have a

0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.080
<v Speaker 2>personal services company that John and I have missed? Is

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 2>there an expense to it that John and I have missed?

0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.040
<v Speaker 2>If you know either of these things, do write in

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.440
<v Speaker 2>and let us know. And if you have further questions also,

0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:02.520
<v Speaker 2>please do write in and let us know.

0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:03.760
<v Speaker 3>Anything else to.

0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 2>Add John, Nope, sort you can't stop thinking about bitcoin, everybody.

0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.359
<v Speaker 3>It's got nothing nothing to add to personal Services.

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Company because he's just sitting there kicking himself. Thanks for

0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.480
<v Speaker 2>listening to this week's Maren Talk to Your Money. If

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.920
<v Speaker 2>you like us show, rate, review, and subscribe wherever you

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.080
<v Speaker 2>listen to podcasts. I'll also be sure to follow me

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.320
<v Speaker 2>and John on X or Twitter. I'm at Maren.

0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 3>Sw and here is at John Underscore Steppech.

0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:32.360
<v Speaker 2>This episode was produced by Sersadi, Production support and sound

0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.200
<v Speaker 2>design by Blake Maples. Question and comments on this show

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 2>and all our shows also welcome. Our show email is

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Merinmoney at Bloomberg dot NAT. I should also say that

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.800
<v Speaker 2>John and I are experimenting with other types of social

0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:46.360
<v Speaker 2>media and you will soon be able to find us

0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:47.800
<v Speaker 2>both on truth social