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Speaker 1: Yeah, and welcome to the Short Stuff. I'm Josh, there's Chuck,

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Speaker 1: There's Jerry the scurvy dog, and this is short Stuff.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, I'm already wasting time. Let's start year.

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Speaker 1: Good lord, I can't believe this is a show. It is, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: for like twelve years almost yeah, ish eleven. I think

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Speaker 1: Short Stuff in particular, though Chuck Um is just about approached.

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Speaker 1: It's one year anniversary. That's great, yep, the little bro.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about scurvy, which is uh a disease

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Speaker 1: that you can get when you don't get enough vitamin

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Speaker 1: C for a long period of time. So it's gotta

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Speaker 1: be a long period of time. If you go without

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Speaker 1: vitamin C for a few days or a few weeks,

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Speaker 1: even you're gonna be fine. But if you are let's say,

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Speaker 1: on a pirate ship, and you go months without vitamin C,

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Speaker 1: then your toast and technically any ship or technically any

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Speaker 1: um massive land movement where you don't have vitamin C

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Speaker 1: in your diet, or even if you just choose not

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Speaker 1: to eat vitamin C, you can you can be living

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Speaker 1: in the middle of an orange grove. Just a total jerk,

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Speaker 1: but it takes about it takes about like two to

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Speaker 1: three months before the effects really start to set in. Um.

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Speaker 1: But it is really odd to think that, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about that. You could just remove vitamin

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Speaker 1: C from your diet. It wouldn't be that hard. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know everyone thinks like, well, oranges, lemons, limes rich

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Speaker 1: in vitaminc. True, But did you know that broccoli has

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Speaker 1: about twice as much vitamin C as an orange? Yea,

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Speaker 1: And I love broccoli and then and you hate it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but I would eat broccoli if I was starting to

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Speaker 1: show signs of scurvy. I prefer to eat the oranges

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Speaker 1: and the limes and lemons because I love me some

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Speaker 1: citrus too, maybe a grapefruit here. They're uh not in

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Speaker 1: the grape fruit a little bitter for me, But that

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Speaker 1: would would choke it down if my life depended on it.

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Speaker 1: Sure you should try. I've got something for you, then

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Speaker 1: chuck fresh squeezed grapefruit juice and orange juice, fresh squeezed

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Speaker 1: in equal equal proportions. I think I've had it mixed

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Speaker 1: in and can have it. And also think I have

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Speaker 1: a thing for my childhood in the seventies and early eighties,

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Speaker 1: when half a grapefruit covered in sugar was like a

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Speaker 1: meal for moms. And I don't know, it just bucked

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Speaker 1: me that and caughta cheese. Yeah, that was a super

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Speaker 1: seventies diet thing. All right, So let's talk about vitamin

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Speaker 1: C because it's super interesting to me that tons of animals,

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Speaker 1: four thousand kinds of mammals even can produce their own

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Speaker 1: vitamin C, but humans primates more specifically, Yeah, that's a

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Speaker 1: big one. Guinea pigs and fruit bats lost of the

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Speaker 1: ability to a long time ago. Yeah, and other animals

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Speaker 1: can synthesize vitamin C so they don't need to ingest

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Speaker 1: it um like you were saying, because they have a

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Speaker 1: function in goolo gene, the goolo no lactone oxidase gene,

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Speaker 1: which is beautiful words um. But the goolo gene, we

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Speaker 1: have a full script of it. It's there. There's just

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Speaker 1: some mutation that occurred way back in our evolutionary history,

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Speaker 1: which is pointed to by the fact that other apes

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Speaker 1: can't synthesize vitamin C either. So this have been way

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Speaker 1: before humans were around. And as a matter of fact,

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Speaker 1: the fact that there we do have a goolo gene

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Speaker 1: that is no longer functioning, is pointed to is evidence

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Speaker 1: of evolution by people who still argue such things. Um,

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Speaker 1: But the fact that the gholo gene is there but

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Speaker 1: not functioning is the whole reason. We can't produce vitamin C,

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Speaker 1: so we have to ingest it elsewhere, which wasn't a

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Speaker 1: problem at least at first when we were just strictly

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Speaker 1: a subtropical species like we evolved to be initially, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because we were surrounded by fruits and vegetables and ate

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Speaker 1: him a lot. But then as we you know, migrated

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Speaker 1: around the globe to places where that stuff wasn't so abundant,

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Speaker 1: quickly became a problem, it did. And so, um, there

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Speaker 1: are vitamin C pops up in other like non subtropical

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Speaker 1: crops or crops that we've adapted to non subtropical climates,

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Speaker 1: which is to say, everything outside of the tropics and subtropics, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: red peppers, yeah, red peppers. Potatoes, onions are another one. Tomatoes,

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Speaker 1: So there's tomatoes and actually, strangely enough, some raw meat.

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Speaker 1: And then say, like the livers of certain animals are

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Speaker 1: also very rich in vitamin C, which is why um,

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Speaker 1: people living up in the Arctic circle like Inuit populations

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Speaker 1: and other indigenous tribes that lived way far north surprisingly

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Speaker 1: didn't suffer from scurvy because they have plenty of vitamin

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Speaker 1: C and they're almost entirely meat rich diet. It pops

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Speaker 1: up in other places. But if you if you don't

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Speaker 1: get it, you can't synthesize vitamin C, which is extremely

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Speaker 1: important to building collagen in your body, which it turns

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Speaker 1: out collagen is way more important than just keeping your

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Speaker 1: your cuticles of your nails healthy. Yeah, we need collagen.

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Speaker 1: It's a protein. And if you like you're connect to

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Speaker 1: tissue and your body staying healthy and connective, then you

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Speaker 1: need that collagen. Uh. Bones are gonna get a lot

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Speaker 1: of their strength from collagen fibers. Uh. If you have

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Speaker 1: like a a boo boo on your skin, collagen is

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Speaker 1: gonna heal it. It'll help the walls of your blood

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Speaker 1: vessels stay strong and healthy. If you like to keep

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Speaker 1: your blood inside your vessels, you're gonna love collagen. In

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Speaker 1: other words, that's right. And if you are getting enough

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Speaker 1: vitamin C, which they say is about seventy to ninety

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Speaker 1: milligrams a day, you're gonna be burning through about eight

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Speaker 1: to ten milligrams of this vitamin C if you want

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Speaker 1: to keep synthesizing that collagen, right, so, you want to

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Speaker 1: have a store reserve of it at all times, and supposedly,

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Speaker 1: if your store drops below three milligrams to try, that's

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Speaker 1: when the scurvy starts to happen. And it's gonna first

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Speaker 1: start to be noticeable very faintly. You're gonna feel weak,

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Speaker 1: maybe a little bit of fatigue. It's not gonna be

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Speaker 1: You're not gonna be like it's scurvy. I'm I'm a

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Speaker 1: scurvy dog. Uh. It's gonna take a little longer and

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Speaker 1: some other stuff to really um to really point to

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Speaker 1: the fact that you are suffering from scurvy. You'll go

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Speaker 1: through weight loss due to reduced appetite, and then the

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Speaker 1: real dead giveaway for a lot of people is that

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Speaker 1: you start to get Your mouth just undergoes a massive

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Speaker 1: horrific transition in a number of ways. Yeah, it's pretty gross.

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Speaker 1: We're talking bleeding gums, swollen gums, teeth loosening and falling out.

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Speaker 1: This is my worst nightmare. It's not good. Joint and

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Speaker 1: muscle pain, your skin like if you you know, we

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Speaker 1: we talked about the collagen helping to form scar tissue

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Speaker 1: and heal boo boos. You will not be able to

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Speaker 1: heal your booboos, and old boo boos might reopen because

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Speaker 1: they're not healing like they should be. Bones start to

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Speaker 1: become brittle. It's it's really really bad and grotesque. It's

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Speaker 1: a bad jam for sure. Um. And then eventually, because

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Speaker 1: you remember, your blood vessels are weak, and because you

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Speaker 1: remember we did our our um episode like does the

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Speaker 1: body really regenerate itself every seven or nine years or

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Speaker 1: something like that, your tissues are constantly being regenerated. But

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Speaker 1: part of that regeneration is from an adequate supply of

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Speaker 1: vitamin C. So if you don't have that, you're not

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Speaker 1: regenerating these things. And then eventually, some really important blood

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Speaker 1: vessels like ones that um, that supply your brain or

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Speaker 1: your heart with blood are going to fail and you're

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Speaker 1: going to die of a blood hemorrhage in your brain

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Speaker 1: or your heart. That's right, So let's take a break

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about what pirates and sailors

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Speaker 1: have to do with all this right after this. Alrighty,

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Speaker 1: So we kind of gave it away earlier by saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you don't have vitamin C and you're

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Speaker 1: in a place where you can't get it, scurvy will

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Speaker 1: set in. Early on, this was a problem, like during

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Speaker 1: the Crusades because armies were where there were no fruits

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Speaker 1: and vegetables. During the Irish potato famine, it was a

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Speaker 1: big deal. During the American Civil War, scurvey was a

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Speaker 1: big deal. But the early sailors of the world, the

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Speaker 1: Vikings and the Phoenicians, they had fruits and veggies, so

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Speaker 1: they were all fine. Between fifteen hundred and eighteen hundred, though,

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Speaker 1: and this is hard to believe, it was the leading

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Speaker 1: cause of naval death. Around two million sailors died of scurvy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like far and away the leading cause. And it was

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Speaker 1: like a really bad death, Like your gums would become

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Speaker 1: so inflamed and swollen they would grow over your teeth

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Speaker 1: and so to allow you to chew your food, because

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Speaker 1: otherwise you just starved to death because you couldn't eat,

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Speaker 1: the naval surgeons would cut your gums away to expose

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Speaker 1: your teeth once more. This is the kind of like

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Speaker 1: stuff that was happening to use your dying of scurvy

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Speaker 1: um and at the time this is say, like the

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Speaker 1: Age of Discoveries starting around you know, the late fifteenth century,

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Speaker 1: early sixteenth century onto the middle of the eighteenth century.

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Speaker 1: There were just millions of people died this way, suffered

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Speaker 1: from this. And it's not like they didn't already know

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Speaker 1: how to cure scurvy through like folk medicine. Um here,

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Speaker 1: they're people kind of figured out like, oh, if you'd

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Speaker 1: eat an onion, you're gonna be fine, or try some

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Speaker 1: citrus or something like that. But it wasn't like widely

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Speaker 1: disseminated and certainly not scientifically based knowledge until a guy

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Speaker 1: named James Lynn came around and in seventeen forty seven,

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Speaker 1: uh he I think on behalf of the Royal Navy

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Speaker 1: conducted the first controlled experiment that showed that citrus actually

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Speaker 1: can cure um scurvy. Yeah, I mean, James Lynn comes around.

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Speaker 1: It says, you're on these boats eating hardtack, drinking beer

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Speaker 1: and salted meat, and you're dying grotesque deaths. Throw a

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Speaker 1: line in that beer and you'll be fine. Yeah, make

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Speaker 1: it a Negro MODELO. It's even better sort of because

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Speaker 1: scurvey can, I mean, it is really pretty easy to cure.

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Speaker 1: You can add like you can reverse the effects of

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Speaker 1: scurvy if you add that vitamin C back in and

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Speaker 1: it's really easy as that. But they didn't have access

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Speaker 1: to it. That's why it's so closely associated with sailing, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's still out there today. It's not like we

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Speaker 1: cured an eradicated scurvy. I mean cured, I guess in

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Speaker 1: a way, but we didn't eradicate it because in poor

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Speaker 1: places where people don't have access to vitamin C um,

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Speaker 1: low income families, even in the United States, you see

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Speaker 1: scurvy popping up every now and then. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: really sad situation in orange groves where obstinate people are

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Speaker 1: just sitting around that's suffering from scurvy. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: so um. As as malnourishment has kind of increased um

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Speaker 1: because of the Western diet, so have cases of scurvy.

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Speaker 1: Like in the developed Western world, people get scurvy. It's

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Speaker 1: more more frequently seen whenever there's like a terrible famine

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Speaker 1: or something like that. But it can't happen in people's

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Speaker 1: everyday lives. They can start to develop scurvy. The great

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Speaker 1: thing is, and this is what Lynn showed way back

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Speaker 1: in the seventeen forties. Is that give somebody some orange

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Speaker 1: juice or some vitamin C pills and within twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours their gums are gonna stop bleeding. Um, within three

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Speaker 1: months they should be expected to make a full and

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Speaker 1: complete recovery. Like, it's extremely treatable. It's a really treatable disease.

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Speaker 1: It's just before James Lynn came along and saved a

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Speaker 1: lot of people from excruciating deaths, there was no um,

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Speaker 1: kind of codified knowledge about about how to cure and

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Speaker 1: treat scurvy. That's right, And after a few months you're

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Speaker 1: completely fine. Yep, it's great, it is, it's great. It's

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Speaker 1: the best thing. Just go ahead and get some scurvys.

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Speaker 1: Just keep some vitamins you nearby, and it'll be a

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Speaker 1: wild ride. I've got two more things things. One, I

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Speaker 1: believe the reason why the British are sometimes uh pejoratively

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Speaker 1: referred to as limeys is because of that lime juice

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Speaker 1: ration that the sailors got to cure scurvey. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: then the second thing, you said that scurvy was kind

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Speaker 1: of a big deal in the Civil War. Um. I

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Speaker 1: saw that there was a campaign poster in Chicago. I

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Speaker 1: think a union campaign poster that said, don't send your

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Speaker 1: sweethearted love letter, send an onion because they knew that

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Speaker 1: onions would combat scurvy. That's great. I think that's pretty great.

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Speaker 1: It's a great it's a great thing. We should start

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Speaker 1: doing that for Valentine's Day, sending on Alright, Chuck, that's

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Speaker 1: it for short Stuff, Right, that's right, Chuck said, right, everybody.

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Speaker 1: That means that short Stuff is out. Stuff you should

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Speaker 1: know is a production of iHeart Radios. How stuff works

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Speaker 1: for more podcasts for my heart Radio? Is that the

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your favorite shows. M