Speaker 1: It's Thursday July. I'm Oscar Mrors from the Daily Dive
Speaker 1: podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. Mask
Speaker 1: and vaccine mandates are coming. COVID cases are rising, and
Speaker 1: so is the anger. There's a growing frustration that the
Speaker 1: vaccinated are having with the unvaccinated as we see the
Speaker 1: majority of cases are all happening with those refusing the shot.
Speaker 1: Ronnie Rabin, health reporter at the New York Times, joins
Speaker 1: us for all the anger surrounding vaccines. Thanks for joining us, Ronnie,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. We're seeing rising cases of
Speaker 1: COVID out there right now. Mask mandates are starting to
Speaker 1: be implemented again. Vaccine mandates in certain form and fashion
Speaker 1: are starting to happen. As we see these rising cases
Speaker 1: and all of this stuff, we're also seeing something else rise,
Speaker 1: the anger surrounding all of this. And now this has
Speaker 1: been happening for some time. People on both sides of things.
Speaker 1: People are angry at the unvaccinated for not doing it.
Speaker 1: The pandemic is ongoing still. We should be close to
Speaker 1: ending this thing, but we're not getting and as I said,
Speaker 1: tensions just continue to rise with all of this. So Ronnie,
Speaker 1: you spoke to a lot of people about this. What
Speaker 1: are we seeing, Well, we're seeing the people who have
Speaker 1: been vaccinated are furious at the people who are not,
Speaker 1: who are refusing to get vaccinated, which is a substantial
Speaker 1: number in our country. I asked him, one of you anger,
Speaker 1: He said, no, I'm outraged. People want their lives back,
Speaker 1: and they see these hope outs as blocking the way
Speaker 1: to normality, back to normality and prolonging this and making
Speaker 1: it more painful. Another I know you have these people
Speaker 1: who are saying, I'm making an individual choice. I'm not
Speaker 1: ready to make it. It's a personal choice. But people
Speaker 1: have been vaccinated and feel like it's not really just
Speaker 1: a personal choice because it has implications for society because
Speaker 1: when you get infected, you pass this on to other people.
Speaker 1: We need to think about the collective good, and so
Speaker 1: there's a lot of frustration, a lot of frustration. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it turns out it comes up in personal relationships you
Speaker 1: mentioned in the article too. Let's say a mask mandate
Speaker 1: people hated whatever. That's kind of the easiest of all
Speaker 1: of these things that are going on. Wear a mask.
Speaker 1: But these rising case rates, really, as you mentioned, start
Speaker 1: having societal changes and impacts plans for school reopenings, workplace reopenings.
Speaker 1: That's huge right now. The CDC just recommended that everybody
Speaker 1: in a K through twelve, environment, students, two teachers, all
Speaker 1: of that have to start wearing masks. This starts changing
Speaker 1: so much stuff. When these case rates keep going up
Speaker 1: and people do not get their vaccinations and we have
Speaker 1: a new very transmissible variant, you know, that's a big
Speaker 1: factor to consider. This new delta variant is much more infectious,
Speaker 1: much more contagious than the early variant. Wise, and you
Speaker 1: mentioned kids and in detail, like people who are most
Speaker 1: concerned or parents of children who are under the age
Speaker 1: of twelve, and they don't have the option of getting vaccinated,
Speaker 1: so they are really kind of subject to the whim
Speaker 1: of other people around them. So parents are very concerned.
Speaker 1: Another group are very concerned, our parents and loved ones
Speaker 1: of healthcare workers and healthcare workers themselves who are really
Speaker 1: not sure they can do this again, so draining, it's
Speaker 1: so exhausting what they've been through. They put their lives
Speaker 1: at risk. We're facing a shortage of nurses because of this.
Speaker 1: Nurses are just burning out, and nurses are the soldiers
Speaker 1: in the hospital they're the ones doing the real day
Speaker 1: to day work. And a doctor said to me today,
Speaker 1: you know, to see a young patient come in so
Speaker 1: sick and know that it could have been prevented, that
Speaker 1: it was preventable, it's just heartbreaking. So you've got all
Speaker 1: these forces at work and people want brass tacks. They're
Speaker 1: tired of asking offering a lottery tickets, concert tickets, a
Speaker 1: hundred dollar toward college, whatever, all the stuff. They're tired
Speaker 1: of that. They say it's time for serious measures, vaccine
Speaker 1: mandates or restrictions on people's movement. You can't go into
Speaker 1: this bar if you're not vaccinated. You can't go into
Speaker 1: the Seris concert. You can't get on airplane, you can't
Speaker 1: get on a bus, you can't come to work. You
Speaker 1: really serious things that would curb people's participation in life
Speaker 1: if they are not willing to get on the vaccination train.
Speaker 1: I want to focus on that just a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Right now, at seven percent of Americans ages twelve and
Speaker 1: old are fully vaccinated. That's kind of current number that
Speaker 1: we have. But talking about how how people are fed
Speaker 1: up with it, right a lot of them are starting
Speaker 1: to have a lack of sympathy to for people, you know,
Speaker 1: if they get sick. It's almost like, well, you kind
Speaker 1: of deserve that. People that you talked to said, let's
Speaker 1: start withholding stimulus payments. The people aren't getting vaccinated, and
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of this stuff won't happen, but
Speaker 1: this is how strongly they feel about it that we
Speaker 1: need to do some more coercive measures to start getting
Speaker 1: people vaccinated. Well, we took we with help federal funding
Speaker 1: from highway funds from states when we wanted them to
Speaker 1: reduce their speed limit. This is a matter of life
Speaker 1: and death too. So you say it won't happen, and
Speaker 1: maybe there's not political will, but the federal government does
Speaker 1: have some things in its pocket that it can do
Speaker 1: if it wants to hold certain funds or you know,
Speaker 1: take especially against states that don't meet certain bars. There
Speaker 1: are things that can do that can be done if
Speaker 1: there's a will. I think many people feel like the
Speaker 1: government is not ready to go there yet. And what
Speaker 1: we're seeing now in as cities and possibly federal government
Speaker 1: saying to work as well, we want you to get
Speaker 1: vaccinated and if not, get tested once a week. Those
Speaker 1: are not the equivalent, right exactly, And right now. Changing
Speaker 1: somebody's mind is is such a slow process. It's a
Speaker 1: very individual process. You spoke to somebody as well, who
Speaker 1: after some careful prodding, speaking to her doctor, she finally decided, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm ready for this now. She's actually a health home
Speaker 1: health age, she's a caregiver. The parent of the person
Speaker 1: she takes care of had been talking to her constantly
Speaker 1: about it. Most of her information had come from WhatsApp
Speaker 1: and social media sources where people have been sending her
Speaker 1: things that she laughed at. You know, it's a microchip,
Speaker 1: it's the market, the beast. She hadn't gotten any direct
Speaker 1: information from a healthcare provider, from a public health agency.
Speaker 1: She hadn't gotten any clear, succinct information. All the information
Speaker 1: was coming to social media. When she went to see
Speaker 1: a doctor, and this as a doctor she had a
Speaker 1: long time relationship with who she really trusted. I think
Speaker 1: she's known her over ten years. She trusted that doctor.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't right now how doctors involved in
Speaker 1: this process very much. We've had these mouth vaccinations and
Speaker 1: we really need to get people now. Everyone has their
Speaker 1: own personal doctor in America. Not everyone has access to doctor,
Speaker 1: but we certainly the healthcare providers stepping in use their
Speaker 1: doctors are trusted. Yeah, exactly, and a lot of experts
Speaker 1: say that's one of the premier ways to help somebody
Speaker 1: get the information and help make that decision. But you know,
Speaker 1: as I mentioned, as the pandemic continues to go on,
Speaker 1: that frustration continues to grow as well. So hopefully we
Speaker 1: can get a handle on it and get back to normal,
Speaker 1: as a lot of people have been saying. Ronnie Rabin,
Speaker 1: health reporter at the New York Times, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you. I'm Oscar Ramirez, and
Speaker 1: this has been reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big
Speaker 1: news stories. You can check me out in the Daily
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