WEBVTT - Among the Vaccinated, Anger and Frustration Is Rising With Those Refusing Shots

0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:04.160
<v Speaker 1>It's Thursday July. I'm Oscar Mrors from the Daily Dive

0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:08.720
<v Speaker 1>podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America. Mask

0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.440
<v Speaker 1>and vaccine mandates are coming. COVID cases are rising, and

0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:15.040
<v Speaker 1>so is the anger. There's a growing frustration that the

0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.119
<v Speaker 1>vaccinated are having with the unvaccinated as we see the

0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:21.200
<v Speaker 1>majority of cases are all happening with those refusing the shot.

0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.720
<v Speaker 1>Ronnie Rabin, health reporter at the New York Times, joins

0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.040
<v Speaker 1>us for all the anger surrounding vaccines. Thanks for joining us, Ronnie,

0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:33.279
<v Speaker 1>thank you for having me. We're seeing rising cases of

0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:35.879
<v Speaker 1>COVID out there right now. Mask mandates are starting to

0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:40.360
<v Speaker 1>be implemented again. Vaccine mandates in certain form and fashion

0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>are starting to happen. As we see these rising cases

0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.320
<v Speaker 1>and all of this stuff, we're also seeing something else rise,

0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:48.800
<v Speaker 1>the anger surrounding all of this. And now this has

0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.920
<v Speaker 1>been happening for some time. People on both sides of things.

0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:54.880
<v Speaker 1>People are angry at the unvaccinated for not doing it.

0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.440
<v Speaker 1>The pandemic is ongoing still. We should be close to

0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.320
<v Speaker 1>ending this thing, but we're not getting and as I said,

0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.039
<v Speaker 1>tensions just continue to rise with all of this. So Ronnie,

0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:05.560
<v Speaker 1>you spoke to a lot of people about this. What

0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.800
<v Speaker 1>are we seeing, Well, we're seeing the people who have

0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.520
<v Speaker 1>been vaccinated are furious at the people who are not,

0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:16.320
<v Speaker 1>who are refusing to get vaccinated, which is a substantial

0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.760
<v Speaker 1>number in our country. I asked him, one of you anger,

0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.679
<v Speaker 1>He said, no, I'm outraged. People want their lives back,

0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and they see these hope outs as blocking the way

0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.160
<v Speaker 1>to normality, back to normality and prolonging this and making

0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.720
<v Speaker 1>it more painful. Another I know you have these people

0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.160
<v Speaker 1>who are saying, I'm making an individual choice. I'm not

0:01:34.200 --> 0:01:36.479
<v Speaker 1>ready to make it. It's a personal choice. But people

0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.160
<v Speaker 1>have been vaccinated and feel like it's not really just

0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.080
<v Speaker 1>a personal choice because it has implications for society because

0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.640
<v Speaker 1>when you get infected, you pass this on to other people.

0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.480
<v Speaker 1>We need to think about the collective good, and so

0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.640
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of frustration, a lot of frustration. Sometimes

0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.760
<v Speaker 1>it turns out it comes up in personal relationships you

0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:57.760
<v Speaker 1>mentioned in the article too. Let's say a mask mandate

0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:00.800
<v Speaker 1>people hated whatever. That's kind of the easiest of all

0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:02.640
<v Speaker 1>of these things that are going on. Wear a mask.

0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.160
<v Speaker 1>But these rising case rates, really, as you mentioned, start

0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:11.520
<v Speaker 1>having societal changes and impacts plans for school reopenings, workplace reopenings.

0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.280
<v Speaker 1>That's huge right now. The CDC just recommended that everybody

0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:19.359
<v Speaker 1>in a K through twelve, environment, students, two teachers, all

0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.200
<v Speaker 1>of that have to start wearing masks. This starts changing

0:02:22.280 --> 0:02:25.240
<v Speaker 1>so much stuff. When these case rates keep going up

0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:28.440
<v Speaker 1>and people do not get their vaccinations and we have

0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:31.519
<v Speaker 1>a new very transmissible variant, you know, that's a big

0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.920
<v Speaker 1>factor to consider. This new delta variant is much more infectious,

0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.560
<v Speaker 1>much more contagious than the early variant. Wise, and you

0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:41.040
<v Speaker 1>mentioned kids and in detail, like people who are most

0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.119
<v Speaker 1>concerned or parents of children who are under the age

0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:46.720
<v Speaker 1>of twelve, and they don't have the option of getting vaccinated,

0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:48.600
<v Speaker 1>so they are really kind of subject to the whim

0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.400
<v Speaker 1>of other people around them. So parents are very concerned.

0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Another group are very concerned, our parents and loved ones

0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.960
<v Speaker 1>of healthcare workers and healthcare workers themselves who are really

0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.280
<v Speaker 1>not sure they can do this again, so draining, it's

0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:03.760
<v Speaker 1>so exhausting what they've been through. They put their lives

0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.800
<v Speaker 1>at risk. We're facing a shortage of nurses because of this.

0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.600
<v Speaker 1>Nurses are just burning out, and nurses are the soldiers

0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.560
<v Speaker 1>in the hospital they're the ones doing the real day

0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:14.120
<v Speaker 1>to day work. And a doctor said to me today,

0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:16.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, to see a young patient come in so

0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:19.760
<v Speaker 1>sick and know that it could have been prevented, that

0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.880
<v Speaker 1>it was preventable, it's just heartbreaking. So you've got all

0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:26.000
<v Speaker 1>these forces at work and people want brass tacks. They're

0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:30.400
<v Speaker 1>tired of asking offering a lottery tickets, concert tickets, a

0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.359
<v Speaker 1>hundred dollar toward college, whatever, all the stuff. They're tired

0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.280
<v Speaker 1>of that. They say it's time for serious measures, vaccine

0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.280
<v Speaker 1>mandates or restrictions on people's movement. You can't go into

0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.240
<v Speaker 1>this bar if you're not vaccinated. You can't go into

0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the Seris concert. You can't get on airplane, you can't

0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:45.920
<v Speaker 1>get on a bus, you can't come to work. You

0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.840
<v Speaker 1>really serious things that would curb people's participation in life

0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.800
<v Speaker 1>if they are not willing to get on the vaccination train.

0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I want to focus on that just a little bit more.

0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Right now, at seven percent of Americans ages twelve and

0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:00.680
<v Speaker 1>old are fully vaccinated. That's kind of current number that

0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.240
<v Speaker 1>we have. But talking about how how people are fed

0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.240
<v Speaker 1>up with it, right a lot of them are starting

0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.320
<v Speaker 1>to have a lack of sympathy to for people, you know,

0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.200
<v Speaker 1>if they get sick. It's almost like, well, you kind

0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of deserve that. People that you talked to said, let's

0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.360
<v Speaker 1>start withholding stimulus payments. The people aren't getting vaccinated, and

0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:17.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of this stuff won't happen, but

0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:20.520
<v Speaker 1>this is how strongly they feel about it that we

0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:24.000
<v Speaker 1>need to do some more coercive measures to start getting

0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.599
<v Speaker 1>people vaccinated. Well, we took we with help federal funding

0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:30.560
<v Speaker 1>from highway funds from states when we wanted them to

0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.400
<v Speaker 1>reduce their speed limit. This is a matter of life

0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.800
<v Speaker 1>and death too. So you say it won't happen, and

0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.600
<v Speaker 1>maybe there's not political will, but the federal government does

0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.280
<v Speaker 1>have some things in its pocket that it can do

0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:44.440
<v Speaker 1>if it wants to hold certain funds or you know,

0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.680
<v Speaker 1>take especially against states that don't meet certain bars. There

0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:49.880
<v Speaker 1>are things that can do that can be done if

0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:51.760
<v Speaker 1>there's a will. I think many people feel like the

0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.680
<v Speaker 1>government is not ready to go there yet. And what

0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.839
<v Speaker 1>we're seeing now in as cities and possibly federal government

0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:58.480
<v Speaker 1>saying to work as well, we want you to get

0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.680
<v Speaker 1>vaccinated and if not, get tested once a week. Those

0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.080
<v Speaker 1>are not the equivalent, right exactly, And right now. Changing

0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:07.839
<v Speaker 1>somebody's mind is is such a slow process. It's a

0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:12.600
<v Speaker 1>very individual process. You spoke to somebody as well, who

0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.479
<v Speaker 1>after some careful prodding, speaking to her doctor, she finally decided, Okay, yeah,

0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm ready for this now. She's actually a health home

0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.279
<v Speaker 1>health age, she's a caregiver. The parent of the person

0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.160
<v Speaker 1>she takes care of had been talking to her constantly

0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.040
<v Speaker 1>about it. Most of her information had come from WhatsApp

0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.000
<v Speaker 1>and social media sources where people have been sending her

0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.680
<v Speaker 1>things that she laughed at. You know, it's a microchip,

0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.120
<v Speaker 1>it's the market, the beast. She hadn't gotten any direct

0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:43.359
<v Speaker 1>information from a healthcare provider, from a public health agency.

0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.240
<v Speaker 1>She hadn't gotten any clear, succinct information. All the information

0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.480
<v Speaker 1>was coming to social media. When she went to see

0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:50.839
<v Speaker 1>a doctor, and this as a doctor she had a

0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.680
<v Speaker 1>long time relationship with who she really trusted. I think

0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.800
<v Speaker 1>she's known her over ten years. She trusted that doctor.

0:05:57.360 --> 0:05:59.440
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, we don't right now how doctors involved in

0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.000
<v Speaker 1>this process very much. We've had these mouth vaccinations and

0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.000
<v Speaker 1>we really need to get people now. Everyone has their

0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.680
<v Speaker 1>own personal doctor in America. Not everyone has access to doctor,

0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:12.880
<v Speaker 1>but we certainly the healthcare providers stepping in use their

0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.920
<v Speaker 1>doctors are trusted. Yeah, exactly, and a lot of experts

0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.200
<v Speaker 1>say that's one of the premier ways to help somebody

0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.600
<v Speaker 1>get the information and help make that decision. But you know,

0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:26.720
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, as the pandemic continues to go on,

0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.960
<v Speaker 1>that frustration continues to grow as well. So hopefully we

0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.920
<v Speaker 1>can get a handle on it and get back to normal,

0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.559
<v Speaker 1>as a lot of people have been saying. Ronnie Rabin,

0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:37.200
<v Speaker 1>health reporter at the New York Times, thank you very

0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:42.839
<v Speaker 1>much for joining us. Thank you. I'm Oscar Ramirez, and

0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.440
<v Speaker 1>this has been reopening America. Don't forget effort today's big

0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.000
<v Speaker 1>news stories. You can check me out in the Daily

0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast every Monday to Friday. So follow us on

0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast.