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Speaker 1: Podcast playground. Taking a Walk was n author David Leaves,

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Speaker 1: how a first class writer, producer, director, continues to celebrate

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Speaker 1: the genius of Brian Wilson. On this episode of Taking

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Speaker 1: a Walk, we welcome Peabody in Writer's Guild Award writer director, author,

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Speaker 1: UCLA professor, and author of the new book God Only

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Speaker 1: Knows the Story of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys

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Speaker 1: and the California Myth. Hello, David, welcome to Take on

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Speaker 1: a Walk. Hey, budd, It's great to be with you,

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Speaker 1: and I sure wish I was out there right now

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Speaker 1: with you. I can see the foliage and everything. It

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Speaker 1: looks pretty terrific. Well, it's so nice having you on.

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Speaker 1: What is it like being the authority on someone considered

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Speaker 1: a genius by fans and a massive music community. You know,

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Speaker 1: I think Brian Wilson is the authority on Brian Wilson

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Speaker 1: through his music. I believe that everything we really need

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Speaker 1: to know and feel about Brian Wilson we can get

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Speaker 1: from listening to his enormous body of work. And I'm

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Speaker 1: really just an obsessive fan who wanted to know more,

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Speaker 1: who wanted to kind of know everything there was to

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Speaker 1: know about him so I could share those insights with

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Speaker 1: similarly obsessed fans what we're often referred to as Brian Easters.

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Speaker 1: You've spent a vast amount of your life being close

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Speaker 1: to this amazing man and his music, and then your

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Speaker 1: approach with this new project and with the new work

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Speaker 1: associated with the past work is really quite intriguing, and

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Speaker 1: it's filled with so much love and passion. What drove

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Speaker 1: you to take on this chapter if you will, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know when I wrote the original book, and thank

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Speaker 1: you for what you said about the new edition. The

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Speaker 1: original book was written by a twenty five year old

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Speaker 1: journalist who was obsessed at both getting at the truth

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Speaker 1: and kind of grabbing the world by the collar and saying, Hey,

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Speaker 1: would you pay attention to this guy, Brian Wilson. He's

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Speaker 1: really important because I felt that the beach Boy's image

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Speaker 1: had subsumed him. He had been caught up in this

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Speaker 1: kind of fun in THESS sun Car Girls and the

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Speaker 1: Beach and it had nothing to do with really why

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Speaker 1: he mattered to the world of music and why he

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Speaker 1: matters to the world in general. This new edition came about,

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Speaker 1: in a sense, almost by accident, because I wasn't planning

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Speaker 1: on writing it. I wanted to really do an anthology

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Speaker 1: of everything I had written on the subject, including the

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Speaker 1: original book, but the publisher wasn't interested in that. They said,

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Speaker 1: we'd love to bring out your original book if you'll

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Speaker 1: do what they referred to as a massive update, so

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Speaker 1: that people would feel who had the book from nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight would feel they were getting something worth buying it.

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Speaker 1: In a sense, two books for the price of one.

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Speaker 1: And what I was able to do, I think in

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Speaker 1: the new edition is look back as an elder statesman

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Speaker 1: on the journey I had gone on with Brian since

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Speaker 1: the book had come out, and give the reader a

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Speaker 1: sense of what it's like to be inside his world,

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Speaker 1: to not just be the fly on the wall, but

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Speaker 1: a participant in a lot of it from the point

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Speaker 1: of view of both a friend and sometimes a collaborator.

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Speaker 1: Talk about the friendship aspect of it, which is so

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Speaker 1: significant and so beautiful that you that you write about

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Speaker 1: and obviously as part of your life, and you obviously

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Speaker 1: had some some business sort of relationships in that regard

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Speaker 1: with Brian as well, But can you talk about the

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Speaker 1: difficult balance around the friendship and the fact that when

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Speaker 1: writing this you certainly have to be careful about now

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Speaker 1: not betraying that friendship. Uh. The the friendship was, like

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Speaker 1: Brian's life, a roller coaster. He went through some extraordinarily

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Speaker 1: difficult times during during the first decade or so that

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Speaker 1: I knew him. He was under the control of a

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Speaker 1: so called doctor. When that when that period ended, Brian

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Speaker 1: refers to it like as if I was in prison

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Speaker 1: for nine years. So in a friend of yours is

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Speaker 1: in prison, it's it's pretty difficult to maintain the friend

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Speaker 1: and at the same time try to help promote who

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Speaker 1: he is in the real world. You know. It's a

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Speaker 1: little Stockholm syndrome, a little bit of a very difficult

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Speaker 1: maneuvering to to to put the friendship first and foremost.

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Speaker 1: And that's really been what it's all about. The times

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Speaker 1: that he and I have worked together. My late wife

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Speaker 1: was very smart. She said, you can never work for

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Speaker 1: Brian Wilson. Everyone who goes to work for him eventually

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Speaker 1: no longer because as his friend, they're an employee. So

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Speaker 1: I never worked for him. It was a record company

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Speaker 1: might hire me, or I might get a television network

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Speaker 1: or a studio to finance a film or a project

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Speaker 1: about him because I for some reason, it became my

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Speaker 1: mission in life to promote his genius. And you're talking

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Speaker 1: about that year around doctor u Jeene Landy, which my god,

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Speaker 1: we had known about it to some degree. There was

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Speaker 1: some writings about that when that emerged around that time, certainly,

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Speaker 1: and it was quite shocking then, but then going deeper

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Speaker 1: and understanding it, certainly through your lens, what a terrible

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Speaker 1: time for him. It was a terrible time for a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons. But I think that the now that

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Speaker 1: we can look back on it, doctor Landy did two

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Speaker 1: things that no one would have anticipated when he was

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Speaker 1: hired Brian. Brian was was in a death spiral. When

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Speaker 1: when when doctor Landy was hired the second time, something

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Speaker 1: had to be done. I was not a family member.

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Speaker 1: I was not, you know, in a place where I

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Speaker 1: could do anything. So the Beach Boys hired doctor Landy

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Speaker 1: and gave him total control. The first time he had

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Speaker 1: been hired, he didn't have total control. This time he

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Speaker 1: was given total control, and he was indeed able to

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Speaker 1: save Brian's life. Could someone else have done that? I

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Speaker 1: believe so. But that's as Brian's late brother Carl said,

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Speaker 1: when the prayer went out. Doctor Landy's the one who

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Speaker 1: answered it. So he saved his life. But then he

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Speaker 1: did something that the Beach Boys were not expecting. He

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Speaker 1: took Brian into a solo career. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: that would have happened under any other circumstances, because the

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Speaker 1: Beach Boy's business up until that time depended upon Brian

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Speaker 1: Wilson being part of the Beach Boys. When they signed

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Speaker 1: a contract with the Columbia Records in the late seventies,

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Speaker 1: it specified that a certain number of songs on each

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Speaker 1: album had to be Brian Wilson songs. So he was

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Speaker 1: crucial to the ongoing business. When Dennis Wilson died, they

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Speaker 1: needed a beach boy on stage, and there's Brian. You know,

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Speaker 1: they needed Wilson brothers on stage to call the Beach Boys.

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Speaker 1: So he was part of the family business. Uh, Doctor

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Speaker 1: Landy took him away from that, and you know he

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Speaker 1: did it terribly. I mean, he was just impossible to

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Speaker 1: deal with and we all did our best to get

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Speaker 1: past this. This He wasn't a snake in the grass.

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Speaker 1: He was a snake in plain sight. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: Brian is is is really the ultimate survivor. If you

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Speaker 1: ask him, you know, where does he get the strength

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Speaker 1: to do what he's done, Because he's now eighty, he says,

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Speaker 1: my last name is Wilson, So I guess I have

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Speaker 1: a lot of willpower. And you know, when you to

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Speaker 1: create great art, it doesn't come out of happiness. And

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Speaker 1: so Brian is from the time he was a child

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Speaker 1: and was abused. He's gone through this terrible emotional beating,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and he's expressed it in his music.

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Speaker 1: And you know, he created these beautiful melodies and harmonies

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Speaker 1: that we get to enjoy, and the depth that's in them,

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Speaker 1: that makes them timeless come comes out of the pain

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Speaker 1: that he's experienced. You know, I was thinking of another artist,

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Speaker 1: Rick Danko from the band obviously the subject of the

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Speaker 1: song Stage Fright, and thinking of Brian's difficulties obviously around that,

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Speaker 1: and then thinking of both of their their genius really

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Speaker 1: in terms of just as you said, the pain coming

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Speaker 1: out in such beauty, it's just striking, really, the the

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Speaker 1: detail that you that you back up here into the storyline.

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Speaker 1: And in terms of those challenges, thank you. You know,

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Speaker 1: I really was careful not to exploit those difficulties but

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Speaker 1: only give the reader just enough so they could understand

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Speaker 1: the challenges he was facing as an artist. One could

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Speaker 1: write an entire book, and entire books have been written

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Speaker 1: about the Beach Boys and Brian that do go into

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Speaker 1: kind of the National Inquirer's aspect of it. That was

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Speaker 1: not my interest. My interest was in providing insight into

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Speaker 1: this great artist. Can you tell the story of that

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Speaker 1: famous first meeting that you had with Brian, the one

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Speaker 1: on the basketball court? Yes, so you know, I moved

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Speaker 1: to California and about eight months after I'd gotten here,

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Speaker 1: I was at the YMCA with a friend from college

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Speaker 1: shooting baskets. My friend Barry, and two guys walk onto

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Speaker 1: the court. One of them is about six foot seven,

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Speaker 1: had just retired from the NBA. A guy named Stan Love,

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Speaker 1: who was the brother of Beach Boys lead singer Mike

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Speaker 1: Love and the father of NBA superstar Kevin Love. With

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Speaker 1: him was Brian Wilson. And to say, I was, as

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Speaker 1: the Bridge would say, gobsmacked. It was like, of all

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Speaker 1: places to meet Brian Wilson, this was the least likely

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Speaker 1: place because the legend was he you know, according to

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Speaker 1: the legend, he never left his bedroom and here he

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Speaker 1: is at the why shooting baskets. And you know, more

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Speaker 1: than anything, I couldn't wait to tell my friends back East.

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Speaker 1: You'll never guess who I met and how I met him.

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Speaker 1: There was nothing really memorable other than the fact of it,

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Speaker 1: except that he really wasn't all that interested in playing

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Speaker 1: team basketball. As soon as he got the ball, he

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Speaker 1: shot it. He played no defense, he was all offense,

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Speaker 1: no d The Celtics would not have been happy with him.

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Speaker 1: But did you think that there were going to be

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Speaker 1: other times you would meet him after that? Well, I

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Speaker 1: had no idea. You know, six months or so prior

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Speaker 1: to that, I had run into his brother Dennis on

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Speaker 1: the streets of Santa Monica and said and walked up

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Speaker 1: to Dennis with great overconfidence and said, Hi, Dennis, my

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Speaker 1: name is David Leef. I moved to California to write

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Speaker 1: a book about your brother Brian. And I think I

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Speaker 1: can still hear the echo of his laugh because it

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Speaker 1: was an absurd notion, and he just said good luck.

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Speaker 1: He didn't offer to introduce me to Brian or take

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Speaker 1: me to his house or anything like that, because Brian

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Speaker 1: is a notoriously bad interview And so how was I

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Speaker 1: going to write a book about him, but through through

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Speaker 1: a remarkable series of circumstances. Within three years of my

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Speaker 1: meeting Dennis on the streets of Santa Monica, I had

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Speaker 1: a book in the stores. Now, when you, in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one reread your original work for think the first time,

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Speaker 1: tell me how difficult that was. It's really it's really

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Speaker 1: difficult to reread the book. From the point of view.

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Speaker 1: The book is intense. It's also dense with information. It's

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Speaker 1: it's you wouldn't call it a breezy read, but it

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Speaker 1: told the story. I was really pleased that I didn't

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Speaker 1: feel the need to change anything, and I wanted the

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Speaker 1: reader of this new edition to see what I had

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Speaker 1: written back then when I was twenty five, and book

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Speaker 1: ended with the new material that I that I wrote

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Speaker 1: last year. The original book only there was one chapter

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Speaker 1: I wasn't thrilled with, which was a chapter called Codetta,

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Speaker 1: which was just kind of a just the facts man

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Speaker 1: kind of chapter about some beach boys history in the

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Speaker 1: late seventies. But otherwise I felt that I had I

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Speaker 1: had told the story the way I wanted to, and

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Speaker 1: that it held up. You know, there's a gigantic author's

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Speaker 1: note in the new edition where I look back on

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Speaker 1: that nineteen seventy eight book and talk about things I

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Speaker 1: might have done differently, because there is a tone of

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Speaker 1: kind of righteous indignation, maybe self righteous indignation in the

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Speaker 1: original book, and I ask myself the question, who was

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Speaker 1: I to say this? Who was I to make these judgments?

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Speaker 1: So I think that the new material is, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the new materials more personal. I didn't have to really

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Speaker 1: interview anybody for the update because of what I lived

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Speaker 1: with Brian. But the original book and this is really

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Speaker 1: self righteous. I think of it as kind of my

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Speaker 1: old testament about Brian. And it has the book of

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Speaker 1: Audrey Wilson, in the book of Gary Usher, and all

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Speaker 1: the people I interviewed told me their Brian stories, and

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Speaker 1: I was kind of the faithful Rian bringing it all together.

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Speaker 1: This new edition is myself and a few close friends,

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Speaker 1: you know, talking about what's happened since since we all

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Speaker 1: got to know Brian and become his friend. Brian has

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Speaker 1: a quote that he gives to his friend Jerry Weiss,

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Speaker 1: I give thanks to every day of life, which is

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Speaker 1: so simple and so stunning and so beautiful. Can you

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Speaker 1: talk about things that maybe folks may not know about

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Speaker 1: Brian Wilson absolutely. I think the first thing to know

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Speaker 1: about him that matters is he is the sweetest, a

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Speaker 1: most sincere person one could ever meet. There's not even

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Speaker 1: a mean half of a bone in his body. He

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Speaker 1: is since when he says something, he means it at

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Speaker 1: that moment, and Brian lives in the moment. That's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that's that's unusual about him is his

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Speaker 1: his moods are mercurial. As a person. He I think

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Speaker 1: he suffered a lot so much abuse that he just

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Speaker 1: almost like a dog that's, you know, been rescued from

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Speaker 1: a shelter. He loves kindness, and he and and and

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Speaker 1: it's been very difficult for him to trust people because

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Speaker 1: from the very beginning of his career there have been

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Speaker 1: people who have worked hard to make money off of Brian.

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Speaker 1: So so he's he's he's had a lot of disappointments

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Speaker 1: in the people who he has known, some who's related to,

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Speaker 1: some who he's loved, who did not put his interests first,

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Speaker 1: put their own interests first, and and and so he's

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Speaker 1: he's definitely been wounded the nine years in prison, with

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Speaker 1: doctor Landy being both the worst emotional wounds, but also

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Speaker 1: doctor Landy was was dosing him with medications that cause

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Speaker 1: incalculable damage to him. But he is intact. He is

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Speaker 1: He is still Brian Wilson. He knows how much the

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Speaker 1: music has affected the world. He loves how much his

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Speaker 1: his music has impacted people. He really appreciates the feeling

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Speaker 1: that he gets back from the audience. He doesn't always

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Speaker 1: show it in concert, but he but he loves that

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Speaker 1: vibration and he's kind of like a tuning for what

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Speaker 1: is what is he tuned to. He's tuned to the

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Speaker 1: station of unconditional love. So he responds to that, and

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Speaker 1: so his music is filled with that for us the listener.

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Speaker 1: But when he's in front of three thousand people and

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Speaker 1: he feels it from them, it's just it's just it's

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Speaker 1: it's as great a feeling as he gets, perhaps with

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Speaker 1: the exception of a good piece of cheesecake. And there's

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Speaker 1: that beautiful picture of you guys at a birthday party.

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Speaker 1: What's that cheesecake? Actually that was It was my seventieth

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Speaker 1: birthday party. He and four of his children that took

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Speaker 1: me and myself and my fiance out to dinner, and

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Speaker 1: that was birthday cake in the picture, but he he

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Speaker 1: had his own cheesecake for dessert that night as well.

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Speaker 1: I love it, you know, you and I share a

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Speaker 1: mutual friend, the late Pete fornatau Oh, I worked with

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Speaker 1: while I did part time at wn WFM in New York.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what you think, Brian, And certainly

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Speaker 1: the Beach Boys music meant to radio then and now. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the nineteen sixties, the Beach Boys string

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Speaker 1: of hits right through Good Vibrations was America's musical answer,

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Speaker 1: if you will, to the British invasion, and it spread

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Speaker 1: around the world. I'll never forget there's something in that

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Speaker 1: music that connects with people who don't speak English. And

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Speaker 1: we were backstage at a concert in Tokyo and a

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Speaker 1: man said to Brian in very very broken English, your

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Speaker 1: music makes my heart sore. And I think that's what

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Speaker 1: his music, the Beach Boys sound, those beautiful harmonies and

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Speaker 1: melodies did for everybody. Their image, the beach Boy's image,

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Speaker 1: is very separate from what the music is. So the

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Speaker 1: music was a mainstay on Rape for four or five

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Speaker 1: years in the sixties, and then in the early seventies,

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Speaker 1: people like Pete four in Intel were great champions on

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Speaker 1: FM radio of the music the Beach Boys were making

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Speaker 1: as a group, their best albums as a group, which

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Speaker 1: included Brian, but starting with Sunflower through Holland, FM radio

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Speaker 1: discovered the Beach Boys because they were making FM style music,

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Speaker 1: if you will, And ironically I started working at WEWFM

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Speaker 1: in the summer of nineteen seventy three. I was a

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Speaker 1: desk assistant and it was three or four days after

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Speaker 1: Brian had shown up and been interviewed by Pete. And

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Speaker 1: I remember I was driving in my car and I

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Speaker 1: love to record stuff off the radio and television, and

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Speaker 1: I remember Pete four Intel saying something like, and I'll

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Speaker 1: do a bad impression. Those of you were regular listeners

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Speaker 1: to the show. What a thrill it is for me

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Speaker 1: to say, welcome Brian Wilson. And it was like, how

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Speaker 1: could Brian Wilson be on his show? And I sped

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Speaker 1: home and I got a cassette in the in the

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Speaker 1: in the in the recorder and tape the interview and

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Speaker 1: listen to it, and it was just like unbelievable that

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Speaker 1: Brian was there. Now, why was he there? His father

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Speaker 1: had just died and he couldn't deal with it. So

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Speaker 1: he'd gotten on a plane and phone to New York.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's and then three days later I

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Speaker 1: started the station. I mean, it was just it was.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of serendipitous moments in my story

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Speaker 1: for sure, and in my my my friendship and work

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Speaker 1: with Brian that's so funny. So we were both members

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Speaker 1: of the n e W staff. That's awesome. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was a great place to work, Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: And you know, guys like Pete and certainly Scott Muni

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Speaker 1: the art of the interview. Really they understood it and

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Speaker 1: appreciated it, and they created this respectful environment as you know,

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Speaker 1: you know with the artists. The artists could feel very comfortable,

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Speaker 1: they could let their hair down. Obviously there's the famous

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Speaker 1: interview with John Lennon dropping in to see Dennis Elsis.

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Speaker 1: So that was part of a magical period. And Pete

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Speaker 1: was a sweetheart and at the foreground of that for sure.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well, the artists understood that the people who were

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Speaker 1: playing their music, and in many cases the only people

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Speaker 1: who were playing their music, were doing it out of

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Speaker 1: genuine passion. They weren't doing it for ratings. They were

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Speaker 1: doing it because they loved the music and wanted to

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Speaker 1: spread the gospel of Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys

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Speaker 1: or John Lennon or whoever it might be. And so

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Speaker 1: there was a response from the artists because they appreciated

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Speaker 1: that that their music was being heard. On a previous

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Speaker 1: episode of Taking a Walk, gentlemen, I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: you know him. You probably do, but you may not

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Speaker 1: name Bill Portcelly. Oh I know, well, sure, yeah, Bill.

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Speaker 1: Bill was on Taking a Walk and Bill described this

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Speaker 1: magical scene of observing Brian Wilson in a studio. Can

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Speaker 1: you describe your view of seeing Brian in a studio? Well, first,

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you that Bill Porcelly and I've

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Speaker 1: been friends since nineteen ninety and it was Bill who

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Speaker 1: arranged for me to interview. He wasn't yet Sir Paul McCartney,

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Speaker 1: but I interviewed Paul McCartney for a half hour just

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Speaker 1: about Brian's Pet Sounds album. So Bill and I have

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Speaker 1: been else forever. Brian in the studio is he is

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Speaker 1: very calm. He's a leader, He's in control. He knows

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Speaker 1: exactly actly what sounds he wants and how to get them.

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Speaker 1: He knows he knows which instruments he wants to hear,

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Speaker 1: He knows what he wants them to play. He has

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Speaker 1: the record in his head when he walks in there,

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Speaker 1: and now he needs to extract those sounds from the

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Speaker 1: musicians first and then and then through the vocals. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's a fascinating thing to see because it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a secret nobody knows until he tells you what

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Speaker 1: he needs. And and I was having dinner last night

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Speaker 1: with two of Brian's band members, Darien Sahanaja and Proban Gregory,

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Speaker 1: and we were talking about one of those recording sessions

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Speaker 1: where where Brian, you know, was telling Proben what he

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Speaker 1: wanted him to play, and Proban gave him two choices

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Speaker 1: and he said, I like the first one, and he

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Speaker 1: knew what he wanted. He's a master of sound. He

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Speaker 1: is a master of vibration. And it it comes from

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Speaker 1: spending his whole life obsessed with music. How was Brian

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Speaker 1: today these days? Brian today is you know, he's eighty,

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Speaker 1: so he's what would Frank Sinatra say, September November, he's

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Speaker 1: you know, he's certainly in the autumn of his the

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Speaker 1: late autumn of his years. He still loves music, he

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Speaker 1: still loves food, he loves Jeopardy. He loves to tour,

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Speaker 1: which is the most surprising thing of all to say,

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Speaker 1: because up until he started touring as a solo artist

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety nine, he did not like to go

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Speaker 1: on the road. But he loves to be with his musicians,

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Speaker 1: who are really his family. He loves hearing his music

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Speaker 1: played with the heart and feeling and perfection with which

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Speaker 1: they play it. He loves the crowd's response, and he

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Speaker 1: loves ordering a good room service steak. That's great. You know.

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Speaker 1: He has a great quote about music. Music is God's voice,

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Speaker 1: and we frequently with guests on this podcast talk about

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Speaker 1: why music is so special and what it means and

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Speaker 1: how incredible as a gift it is to us. Talk

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Speaker 1: about it from your perspective on music and obviously the

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Speaker 1: music of Brian Wilson and what it means well. For me,

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Speaker 1: music has always been my secular religion. It's the place

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Speaker 1: where I went as a little kid with a transistor

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Speaker 1: radio with an earplug in my ear, to my first

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Speaker 1: record player, to my first records. Music has has has

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Speaker 1: always been the thing that evoked the most emotion from me.

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Speaker 1: I knew nothing about Brian Wilson until I read an

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Speaker 1: article in nineteen seventy one en Rolling Stone. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I was a young journalism student. I'd been reading about

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Speaker 1: Edward Rmorrow and I was like, I'm going to make

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Speaker 1: it my mission to tell his story. And the reason

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Speaker 1: was the music was so powerful. My first favorite Beach

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Speaker 1: Boys song was in My Room. There's a melancholy to that,

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Speaker 1: and so much of my favorite Beach Boys music. Now

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Speaker 1: why that appeals to me? I guess we would need

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Speaker 1: a psychiatrist couch to figure all that out. But there's

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Speaker 1: something in his high high falsettle, the whine of it,

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Speaker 1: the melody, the harmonies, the way he puts them together,

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Speaker 1: something in all of that that touches my heart like

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Speaker 1: nothing else does. And you know, as I've gotten to

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Speaker 1: Knowbrian through the years, and he'll say things like, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes I sit down on the piano and I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's God's God's placing my fingers on the

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Speaker 1: keys to play certain notes in making the song. And

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Speaker 1: you know, when he started work on the the once

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Speaker 1: infamous and now famous Smile album, he said, I'm writing

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Speaker 1: a teenage symphony. To God. Brian Wilson believes, as you said,

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Speaker 1: the music is God's voice. And if he believes it,

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Speaker 1: who am I not to go along with that belief.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he knows it's you know, I once said,

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Speaker 1: God whispers, and the great all time great songwriters they

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Speaker 1: hear those whispers. Stevie Wonder, Paul Simon, Paul McCartney, so

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Speaker 1: many of the people of our generation. We were lucky

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Speaker 1: to come along in this amazing time of a musical renaissance.

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Speaker 1: And Brian Wilson is right up there with with all

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Speaker 1: of them, and many of them admire him, you know,

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Speaker 1: beyond all measure. And what's the explanation for it, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a gift. Where that gift came from God only knows,

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Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons. That's the title of

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Speaker 1: the book. The book's are chronicle of the decades, the people,

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Speaker 1: the emotion, and one man's journey, followed brilliantly by David Leaf.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on taking a walk.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Buzz My pleasure, Happy to take a walk

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Speaker 1: with you anytime. Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available

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Speaker 1: on Spotify, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.