1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a married Wisconsin dad of three. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: Did he fake his own death in order to flee 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: to Europe and his Usbecky hotty mistress and breaking? Now? 4 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Is daddy home for Christmas? I'm Nancy Grace, this is 5 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Board wards 6 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: apparently back home on US soil and busted. He's home 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: for Christmas? Is the wife even gonna want him? Why 8 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: would she want him? But that's not my concern right now. 9 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink or marriage counselor. I'm a former 10 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,959 Speaker 1: prosecutor and I want to find out a why he 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: came home and b what is he charged with? Joining 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: we know right now? Straight out to Christina or Wyo. 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: She is the national news anchor with Salem News Channel. Christina, 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. What happened? 16 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: We learned a lot from what Ryan borg Word told 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 2: investigators about how he tried to pull this whole scheme off, 18 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 2: baking his own death, from struggling to get out of 19 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 2: the water because he was caught in waste time muck 20 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 2: to riding an e bike seventy miles to Milwaukee to 21 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: hit a greyhound to Chicago, Detroit up through Canada. He 22 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: actually struggled getting through with the Canadian officials, but he 23 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 2: finally went back and forth with. 24 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: Them Christina Christina Ohio joining us. Why do you keep 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: talking about his struggling boo hooo? He struggled to get 26 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: out of the water. Why was he in the water 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,559 Speaker 1: because he faked his own death? Why was he faking 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: his own death to go? What's a nice way to 29 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: put this to go? Snug up within is Becky mistress 30 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: a hottie in Europe. I don't care that he struggled 31 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: to get out of the water, and I don't care 32 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: that he As you said again, you're really hitting the 33 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: struggling a lot as he struggle to get out of 34 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: the country. He shouldn't have been out of the country anyway, 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: But okay, trying to move forward without feeling sorry for 36 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 1: Ryan Borgwarts. 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: Please absolutely no sorrowful feelings here for mister Borgward. As 38 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 2: he enacted a completely selfish scheme, he cost the County 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: of Green Lake forty five thousand plus dollars. They did 40 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: an extensive search in this length. They had cadaver dogs, 41 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: they had diving teams, they put their lives at risk. 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: Not to mention he left behind his family. He meticulously 43 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 2: planned for at least seven months, right because we know 44 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: he took that life insurance policy out in January for 45 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 2: three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. So he meticulously 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 2: planned every single day for about seven months on how 47 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: to completely destroy emotionally every single person that loved him 48 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 2: and every person that he loved. He actually went to 49 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: church with his family the mourning of his disappearance, the 50 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: morning that he carried through with his plan to fake 51 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: his own death. So the reason he came home, it's 52 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: Sheriff's Christ. 53 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, Wait a minute before I lose this 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: thought out to high profile lawyer joining us Gregory Morse. 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: He is a partner in the law firm of King 56 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 1: Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Gregory Morse. No 57 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: jury is going to believe him or anything he has 58 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: to say when we find out he's sitting at the 59 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: eleven o'clock service, and then he's got his plan already done. 60 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: While he's sitting there, while his wife is praying for 61 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: her family, he's sinking. Ooh, it's Becky haughty got to 62 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: get to his Bekistan. Hurry, hurry, go fake my death 63 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: and get to Canada. Really, the duplicity, the hypocrisy. I 64 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: just you know what, I can take a lot a hypocrite. 65 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 3: No, n well, he's not going to make much jewelry 66 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 3: appeal if his case were to go to trial. And 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: Ryan Borgenwork should have listened to my advice to every citizen. 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 3: If you want to confess, speak with a priest, not 69 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 3: the police. He spoke with the police, told him you 70 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 3: know that he was going. He planned this. He kind 71 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 3: of inculpated himself. And he's charged under a statute obstruction 72 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: of justice in Wisconsin section nine forty six point four 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: to one, which is a misdemeanor Class A. Under their statute, 74 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 3: he doesn't really qualify for the felony enhancements. He faces 75 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: up to nine months in jail. He clearly doesn't have 76 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,120 Speaker 3: any money for a lawyer, or didn't plan yesterday or 77 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 3: did Greg Morris. 78 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: Please don't tell me that I the taxpayer have to 79 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: pay this deadbeat dad, this two timer, that I have 80 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: to pay his legal fees. Yeah, he says something in 81 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: court like I only have twenty dollars. Really, you should 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 1: have thought about that before you got that first class 83 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: ticket across the ocean. Guys, this is how the whole 84 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: thing started. Listen. 85 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 4: In August twelfth, twenty twenty four, at five point thirty 86 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 4: two pm, our office received a call from the Dodge 87 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 4: County Sheriff's Office in reference to a subject that did 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 4: not return home that evening and the last known location 89 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 4: he was was Green Lake. Deputies headed that way, checked 90 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 4: the areas around the lake and found Ryan's vehicle along 91 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 4: with his trailer, parked in the area of Dodge Memorial Park. 92 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 5: We immediately deployed our. 93 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 4: Boat and at six point thirty one two of our 94 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 4: deputies found a capsized kayak in the western part of 95 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 4: the lake, in the area of two hundred and twenty 96 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 4: foot depth. 97 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: Of water two and twenty feet below the surface, deep 98 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: deep down, where the water is so dark you can't 99 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: see your hand in front of your eyes. You know, 100 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: I want to go out too, before I tell you 101 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: what else happened to Special guests joining us. Ben Dobrin 102 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: joining us. He is a police diver, he is an 103 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 1: Emergency Medical Services Marine Dive Team member, and he is 104 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: the dean the d Henry Watt's School of professional studies. Ben, 105 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us. What are 106 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: the dangers of diving that deeply? 107 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 6: Oh, there's a lot of risk. First of all, I mean, 108 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 6: that lake, like you said, is deep, and it's huge. 109 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 6: It's two hundred and thirty six feet deep. So that's 110 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 6: not a normal dive. You know, most public safety diving 111 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 6: the standards are sixty feet or less. Some dive teams 112 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 6: will train up to maybe one hundred feet, but once 113 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 6: you get past one hundred feet you're in what's called 114 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 6: technical diving. And most public safety dive teams are not 115 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 6: technical dive teams, and so they're not diving that deep. 116 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 6: So then you're going to put a whole bunch of 117 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 6: equipment in the water that is very expensive, whether it's sonar 118 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 6: or some sort of unmanned underwater vehicle. Those are hundreds 119 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 6: of thousands of dollars of pieces of equipment that you're 120 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 6: putting in there. There's all sorts of entanglement hazards. You know, 121 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 6: it's dark, it's deep, it's cold, But once you put 122 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 6: a human being in the water, you know, then you're 123 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 6: putting life in limit at risk. Also, so once you 124 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 6: have divers in the water, it becomes a much more 125 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 6: scary endeavor for us to put one diver in the 126 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 6: water and that primary diver has a second person a 127 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 6: tender to help them. Then we have to have a 128 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 6: safety diver, and that person has a tender. Then we 129 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 6: have what's called a ninety percent diver. They're kind of 130 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 6: a backup safety to the safety. Then we have to 131 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 6: have a dive supervisor and a dive safety officer, So 132 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 6: that's six people to get one diver in the water. 133 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 6: And then most teams will also have an ambulance and 134 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 6: a medic on scene just for the divers. So you're 135 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 6: talking about a very, very labor intensive endeavor to get 136 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 6: one safety dive, one public safety diver into the water. 137 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 6: And then when you talk about the training and the gear, 138 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 6: it's very expensive to do this, and the risks are there. 139 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 6: I mean, entanglements happen, running out of air shouldn't happen, 140 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 6: Medical events happen. If a medical event happens above water, 141 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 6: we've got medics unseen ambulance of hospitals. But if you 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 6: have a medical event underwater, that's a whole different and 143 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 6: scary endeavor. So I mean, once you start putting people 144 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 6: in the water, the risks go up significantly. 145 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: You know, another problem when you're searching, especially that deep, 146 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: when you're diving that deeply, is that items on the bottom, 147 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: the bottom surface get tangled up and you've got a 148 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: diver down there that may have spotted a limb surrounded 149 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: by water debris, you know, raptil together that may look 150 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: like a body on sonar. So you have to go 151 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: all the way down and it's pitch black, you can't 152 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,319 Speaker 1: even see your hand in front of you. Find the object, 153 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: feel it and determine is it a body that is 154 00:08:58,160 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 1: very dangerous? 155 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 6: Bendobrin absolutely, and then you know, let's say it is. 156 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,199 Speaker 6: Then you've got to recover. Recovering something from hundreds of 157 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 6: feet has its own host of difficulties and problems because 158 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 6: you know you're gonna have to do the diver's going 159 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 6: to have to do safety stops on the way up. 160 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 6: Do you just lift the body, tie you know, an 161 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,839 Speaker 6: airbag to it and lift it up, Well, then there 162 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 6: could be problems and it can drop and you'll have 163 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 6: to do your search all over again. Or if you're 164 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 6: going to have lift you know, lift capabilities, that's another 165 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 6: entanglement hazard for the diver. You know, once you're on 166 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,199 Speaker 6: the bottom, You're right, there's all sorts of garbage on 167 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 6: the bottom that can make the diver entangled. And you 168 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 6: know once you put it, once you put a human 169 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 6: being in the water, the risks are really really high, 170 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 6: and once you start adding the depth, it just makes 171 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 6: it even more incredibly risky. 172 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: Straight out to Joe Scott Morgan and joining US Professor 173 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: forensics Jackson, Wi's State University, author of Blood Beneath My 174 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: Fate on Amazon, and star of a hit series Body 175 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan, Joscott, I really can't stress 176 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: how dangerous that was for the divers, for the dogs 177 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: out there, for everybody manipulating the boat to kind of 178 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: help and facilitate the divers. So far down below they 179 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: can't communicate with them. You heard that two hundred and 180 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: twenty five feet below the surface of the water. How 181 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: dangerous is that for everyone involved? And think about the 182 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: planning that went in to Borgwartz's escape plan. 183 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 7: Yeah, you want to know something about these lakes, Nancy. 184 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 7: I've been up there before, been in this region of 185 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 7: the country, and it's beautiful. Do you know these are 186 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 7: glacial lakes, These lakes originated as a result of the ice, 187 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 7: the ice sheet that came over North America. This is 188 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 7: not too far away from Lake Winnebago. These lakes are 189 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 7: really really deep. And you know he's not overstating this 190 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,080 Speaker 7: when you talk about you can't see your hand in 191 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 7: front of your face in this location. It's amazing to 192 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 7: me that he would choose this methodology in order to 193 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 7: try to facilitate an escape like this, because these people 194 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 7: are prepared up there with their maritime services. Now the 195 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 7: sheriff just a second ago said we launched our boat. Well, 196 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 7: everybody up there, every little jurisdiction has dive teams because 197 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 7: these lakes are all over the place, so you can 198 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 7: get several of these people. And this reminds me. I 199 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 7: got to tell you, this reminds me of the Runaway Bride. 200 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 7: Do you remember that all those years ago? Yeah, where 201 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 7: they had to call in all of these resources to 202 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 7: track her down. And I'm thinking about this case and 203 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 7: all of these guys and gals that are out there 204 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 7: on the surface of this lake. You've got people this 205 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 7: is in August. You've got people that are recreating out 206 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 7: there at summertime, and they're going out there into this lake, 207 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 7: this deep water, and they're risking life and limb to 208 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 7: try to find this bozo, and of course they don't 209 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 7: turn up with anything. 210 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: Nancy, let me go out to IRV brand joining us 211 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: ERV longtime friend and colleague, former senior inspector with the 212 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: US Marshall Service International Investigations Branch. He has been around 213 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: the world looking for felons. I want to talk about 214 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: this when you're hearing the dangers and the money over 215 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars this little jurisdiction sunk into this much 216 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: less a lot more money from other sources, but the danger, 217 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: the danger involved, It's amazing. This guy is slung up 218 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: in an Isbecky apartment with a hottie. I'm gonna have 219 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: to go to a shrink about what the wife and 220 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: the children are going through thinking he's dead. But of 221 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: all of your travels and the dangers you have faced 222 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: trying to track down people around the world, can you 223 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: believe this. 224 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 6: Guy, Mancy? 225 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 8: This case strikes me as out of all the cases 226 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 8: that we've covered together, this one strikes me as the 227 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 8: most absurd when it comes to amount of time and 228 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 8: the resources and the hard work put in by law 229 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 8: enforcement agents for someone to do this that it was 230 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 8: completely unnecessary. If he wanted to leave, he could have 231 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 8: just left the note and left the country. He did 232 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 8: not have to stage such an elaborate scam to try 233 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 8: to convince people that he was dead. 234 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: He could have I've got I gotta admit for you 235 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: or brant Way to hear this. Let me make sure 236 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: I got it right with Christina Ohio. Christina, isn't it 237 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: true that he went to the link of buying a 238 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: life preserver at Walmart so he could leave it out 239 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: there to be found. 240 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: Exactly he wanted them to think he needed to sell it. 241 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 2: He needed people to think that he had drowned. 242 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: So he left. 243 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: He bought it earlier in that day. He left it 244 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: there so that way investigators could find it, so they 245 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 2: would be completely thrown off the track and that he 246 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 2: actually drowned. 247 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: What we're hearing is the wife the Wisconsin man who 248 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: faked his own death in a kayak accident. The wife 249 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: has filed for separation. Do you blame her? 250 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,839 Speaker 4: We assembled around eight thirty that Monday morning to get 251 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: our plan in place as to what we were going 252 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 4: to do. 253 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 5: As you can see in the. 254 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 4: Screen, behind me shows the location of data guide that 255 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 4: guided our search. There was a number of pings that 256 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 4: we got from the phone that Ryan I had contact 257 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: with his wife. The last one where it shows you 258 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 4: on there it says last pin. That was one where 259 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 4: you told her that he was going to be turning 260 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: around and head even. 261 00:14:52,240 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 5: Towards shore soon. We then got another ping around the eleven. 262 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 4: Fifty ish and that was just the last thing. 263 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 5: That we got on the front. 264 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: I don't know yet what he's going to face legally, 265 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: because he has just been busted and shown up in 266 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: a court of law. But how do you explain that 267 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: to your children as they grow up and start to 268 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: understand what you did to their mother and to them. 269 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: But the level of planning goes beyond capsizing a kayak 270 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: and leaving a brand new life preserver out in the 271 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: water to be found. I mean, gregor remorse, You're in 272 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: church on Sunday and then the next day you are 273 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: leaving your fishing rod out in the water to be 274 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: found and then brought to your wife to identify. I mean, 275 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,080 Speaker 1: I'm just projecting here, but I remember when my fiancee 276 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: was murdered and I was a witness in court, And 277 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: I remember the first moment that I saw keith bloody shirt. 278 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: I walked in off the witness stand and was walking 279 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 1: by state's council table and I saw his din of 280 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: shirt covered in blood. I remember that moment. I don't 281 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: remember a lot more about it, but I remember that moment. 282 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: And his wife had to identify his fishing rod really well. 283 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 3: Again, those are powerful things. He's not going to be 284 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 3: well liked by a jury if this were to go 285 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: to a jury, which it's probably not going to. It's 286 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 3: a misdemeanor. Also, his biggest consequence here is the family situation. 287 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: How he's going to be perceived. He has to deal 288 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 3: with that now. And he's you're right, he's a person 289 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: who's weak, who had better options like talking to a 290 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: therapist about these feelings instead of planning this ridiculous. 291 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 5: Escape. And he really. 292 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 3: Started planning it well before, you know, when he got 293 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 3: the insurance policy. As he said, he thought that would 294 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 3: take care of his family. That's why he did it 295 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 3: when he faked his death. So this is a guy, 296 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 3: like a lot of people, Nancy, who put on a 297 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 3: face and go around and hug and go to church 298 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: and look like altruistic, great people, but behind the scenes 299 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 3: they're just lost in you know, a real moron and 300 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 3: a heartless person to his family. 301 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: Corse morse two words, don't care. I don't care. He's 302 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: not running from his sweet potato. Nobody's going to judge him. 303 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: He's not part of the swimsuit competition. I don't care 304 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,440 Speaker 1: who likes him or doesn't like him. But these pitiful, 305 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: empathetic charges are not enough. What about insurance fraud? For 306 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: Pete's sake, didn't he hold on Christina Riyo. Didn't he 307 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: get a three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars life 308 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: insurance policy and then fake his own death of that? 309 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: He did? 310 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: He got it back in January, seven months before, and 311 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: it was for the purpose of taking care of his family. Again, 312 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 2: he's trying to look like the good guy here, but 313 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: he needed that money to take care of his family. 314 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 2: So that, in effect is insurance fraud because he didn't die, 315 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 2: he faked it. So I do believe that should be 316 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: added on to it, should be an underlying factor, and 317 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 2: he should get more than just a misdemeanor obstruction charge 318 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 2: that faces ten thousand dollars fine and a mere nine 319 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: months in prison. 320 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: Guys, not only that there is more and very intricate planning. 321 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: Listen through that. 322 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 4: Forensic analyst. We recovered that he replaced his hard drive 323 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 4: on the laptop. He cleared the browser on the day 324 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: of his disappearance. He sent the laptop into the cloud. 325 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 4: I don't know, I guess the level. He took photos 326 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 4: of his passports. We found out that he moved funds 327 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 4: to a foreign bank, changing this email. 328 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:57,400 Speaker 5: And communication with a woman and used back Gistan. 329 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 4: He took out a three hundred and seventy five thousand 330 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 4: dollars life insurance policy in January, and he purchased earlining cards. 331 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 4: Due to these discoveries of the new evidence, we were 332 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 4: sure that Ryan was not in our. 333 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: Link to Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic expert and professor of forensics. 334 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: Now explain to me, Joe Scott Morgan, how valuable this 335 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: information is that it's going to be a mass by 336 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: an insurance investigator, a fraud investigator. What length did Bordwark 337 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: go through to clean to wipe his computer? 338 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 7: Yeah, he did, and the idea that he sink this 339 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 7: with this cloud. As the sheriff had pointed out just 340 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 7: a second ago. He didn't want to lose everything that 341 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 7: he had all of that data, and he changed out 342 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 7: the hard drive as well, So this this is something 343 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:05,720 Speaker 7: that requires some planning. He'd even created a new email 344 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 7: address so that he could communicate with whomever. I think 345 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 7: what's going to be interesting is when they begin to 346 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 7: dig into what is contained on that cloud. And I 347 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 7: think this goes to this earlier supposition talking about how 348 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 7: they could come forward with potential insurance fraud charges here, 349 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 7: which is going to be huge in this particular case. 350 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 7: They're going to put this narrative together that he was 351 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 7: purposed to defraud. At this point in time, it's not 352 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 7: just about him banishing off the face of the planet, 353 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 7: but it's also that he's trying to create a new 354 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 7: life and leaving this other one behind, and he's really 355 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 7: got itself into I don't know, as British would say, 356 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 7: a bit of a sticky wicket here, because he can't 357 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 7: escape this, this this. 358 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: Digital top there. Just Scott, I don't appreciate the way 359 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: you said he's got himself into or he landed into 360 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: a sticky wicket. Okay, these just things didn't just happen. 361 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: He didn't just fall into computer and insurance fraud. He 362 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: did it himself. You know, you know you mommy of you, 363 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: remimy of my fell in defendants who would say, miss Grace, 364 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: I caught a drug charge. You caught it like somebody 365 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: threw it at you, Like you were just standing there 366 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: and suddenly you have a key low in your apartment. 367 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 7: It happened. 368 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: Can find himself in. 369 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 7: A sticky wicket that specifically, counselor was that he got 370 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 7: himself into it. Okay, that's a move on his like. 371 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: It's kind of an accident. Oh, I'm in a little 372 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: bit of a mess. 373 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 7: No, No, he's in a hell of a lot of mess. 374 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: Here and we're learning to top it all off. Borgwart's wife, Emily, 375 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,240 Speaker 1: has filed for a legal separation. She did that the 376 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: day after a Borgwart landed back on us soil. In 377 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: her separation petition, I'm surprised it's not a divorce petition, 378 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: she states the marriage is irretrievably broken, and she's right. 379 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 4: On August twelfth, twenty twenty four, our office received a 380 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 4: call from the Dutch County Sheriff's office in reference to 381 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 4: a subject that did not return home. 382 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 9: Ryan borg Ward fails to return from kayaking on Green Lake, 383 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 9: and volunteers joined law enforcement in searching for the forty 384 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 9: four year old father of three. 385 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: That search ended far far away when they found him 386 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: slung up with is Zeuzbeki Hattie. I wonder what made 387 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: him finally come home. Did he run out of money? 388 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: Or was she not what he thought she would be? 389 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: Was that it was she not all he dreamed? Whatever, 390 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 1: he's busted. Now I've just got to see him again. 391 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: Let's roll Borgwarts. 392 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,920 Speaker 5: Good evening, it's raining borgwork today. 393 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 6: Hello man. 394 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 5: Today is November eleventh. It's approximately ten am by you guys. 395 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 5: I'm in my apartment. I am see secure. 396 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: I hope this works safe secure, no problem, Well, I 397 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: don't know about that, you know. Before I go back 398 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 1: to Christina Awaio joining us from Sealing News Channel, let 399 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: me go to a shrink, and boy do I need 400 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: a shrink right now? To doctor Judy Hoe joining us. 401 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 2: Uh. 402 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: Doctor Judy clinical forensic neuropsychologist, author of the New Rules 403 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: of Attachment, and you can find her at doctor Judy 404 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 1: Hooho dot com. Doctor Judy, thank you for being with us. 405 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: You know, after my fiancees murder, I had a recurrent 406 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: dream and the dream was that he wasn't really dead, 407 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,399 Speaker 1: that he was alive and he just went on a 408 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: walk about, and that he came back. And in the dream, 409 00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: which happened over and over and over, I guess I 410 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: was wrestling with his death, his murder. I don't know 411 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: what I was wrestling with. I'm just a lawyer, I'm 412 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: not a shrink doctor, Judy. But how could his wife 413 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: possibly reconcile this? For so many days and nights she 414 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 1: believed he was dead. Finds the kayak capsized, finds the 415 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: life preserver floating in the water, Finds his fishing rod, 416 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: which she has to identify, and has to think every 417 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: night that his body is decomposing at the bottom two 418 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five the below level of the light. 419 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 10: Well, Nancy, because Borgwort spends so much time staging his 420 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 10: own death, his wife, his poor wife, had to go 421 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 10: through all of the stages of grief, from denial to anger, 422 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 10: to depression to bargaining, well, maybe he's not dead. But 423 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 10: as you mentioned, when we lose the ones that we love, 424 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 10: oftentimes we're reflecting on the good times, what we could 425 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 10: have said to them last, What was the last memory 426 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 10: we had of them, and she's dealing with this as 427 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 10: well as trying to help her three children process losing 428 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 10: their dad. Of course, as a search is going on, 429 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 10: there's that tiny sliver of hope. But as the days 430 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 10: go on, the longer the days go on, the more 431 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,360 Speaker 10: people get involved, the more she's thinking this is hopeless. 432 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 10: He's probably dead. We just have to accept it. And 433 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 10: then to discover at the end of this journey that 434 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 10: he did all of this so selfishly without regard, just 435 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 10: because he wanted to have an affair. This is completely 436 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 10: ridiculous and I feel so sad for the trauma that 437 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 10: his wife and his three children have to go through 438 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 10: now having to reconsider all of this and who is 439 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 10: this person? Who is his dad or husband that we 440 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 10: lived our entire lives with. It's not the person that 441 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 10: they thought he was. 442 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 1: And it's not just leaving for another woman, Doctor Judy Hoe. 443 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: He left for a woman he had never met. He 444 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: left for the idea of a woman. It just he 445 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: hadn't even had an affair yet, he left because of 446 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: somebody he was texting and emailing and and snapping with. 447 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: To leave his wife and his children for what an idea. 448 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 10: That's exactly what happened It Basically, he was sick of 449 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 10: his living his life, it seems, and he's, well, this 450 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 10: is gonna be my better life. But as you mentioned, 451 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 10: he doesn't have any experience with this woman. And I 452 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 10: know that you've been questioning, well, why did he come back? 453 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 10: Maybe he came back because, like you said, it wasn't 454 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 10: the life that he thought it was gonna be. I mean, 455 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 10: what was his next recourse if he didn't come back? 456 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 10: Was he gonna design a third life? Was he gonna 457 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 10: try to run off with another person that he hasn't 458 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 10: had a relationship with, but has the idea that maybe 459 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 10: this is gonna be the savior. I really don't know 460 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 10: what he was thinking, but something dire must have been 461 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 10: happening in his head and he thought this was gonna 462 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 10: be the only solution. It is a ridiculous solution because 463 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 10: you can't run away from whatever problems you're dealing with. 464 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 10: They're gonna follow you wherever. 465 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: Man. The wife is between a rock and hard spot 466 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: because she's got her three children that would probably want 467 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: their bio dad with them. But I gotta tell you something, Judy, 468 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: how I would send him back to his Becks day 469 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: and cod cash on delivery. She can pay for the postage. 470 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: Here's another thing, doctor Judy. The money, the money. You 471 00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: know what you get a man, all right, maybe they're attractive, 472 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: maybe they can dance, maybe they can speak flowery language 473 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: to you and make you feel happy. But then they 474 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: mess with the money. The money, the money that you 475 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: work for, the money that you're gonna put in your 476 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 1: children's education fund, your nest egg, your emergency money. This 477 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 1: poc took the money. He didn't just leave to go 478 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: have sex with a woman he's never met. Okay, that's 479 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: bad enough, but worse, he took the money on nearly 480 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: six thousand dollars plus everything he's spent to get over there. 481 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: He took the money out of the children's fund for 482 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: Pete's sake. 483 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 10: Right, this is clearly not a person who was thinking 484 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 10: at all about his family. Otherwise he wouldn't be essentially 485 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 10: making a plan to ditch them forever. When you fake 486 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 10: your own death, there's no coming back from that, right, 487 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 10: I mean, in this case, obviously they discovered him, but 488 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 10: if this plan actually went according to his own thoughts, 489 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 10: then there is no coming back from that. You'll never 490 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 10: see your children and wife again. Because they think you're dead. 491 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 10: And even in that moment, how selfish is he to say, 492 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 10: you know what, who cares about their future? I'm going 493 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 10: to secure my own future taking that money. It's like, 494 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 10: what kind of relationship did he even have with these 495 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,640 Speaker 10: children before? I'm so curious as to what the family 496 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 10: dynamics were before he left. Did these children actually think 497 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 10: he was a loving, doting father who had their best 498 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 10: interests at heart. Well, now the children have to contend 499 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 10: with that idea. I have a dad who doesn't love me. 500 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 10: You know what that does to children's attachment and what 501 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 10: they think about human beings and relationships in general. He 502 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 10: could be creating a cascade of negative mental health outcomes 503 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 10: for his children. 504 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: And we learned that court records confirm Emily Borgwart's wife, 505 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: who lives in Watertown, Wisconsin, has filed for separation almost 506 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: immediately after he touched down on US soil. And the 507 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: documents that the wife Emily filed in Dodge County Circuit Court, 508 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: she said she wants full custody of their three children. 509 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 510 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 11: Little forensic analysts of a laptop that we were given 511 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 11: that we have found that he was in some place 512 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 11: in Europe. 513 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: And this is the right. 514 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 5: If you're viewing this. But there's a family that. 515 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: Wants okay, So how did the sheriff get him home? Listen, 516 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: Christmas is going. 517 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 5: And what better gift he could give us kids? Has 518 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 5: to be there for Christmas. 519 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: That from our friends at w l u k T. 520 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: That's Fox eleven. Well Borgwartz has landed in a whole 521 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: heap of trouble in court. 522 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 12: Look state of Wisconsin versus why word work stand uppiers 523 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 12: by district to trains your recent space. The found appears 524 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 12: in person and cost to be even without the attorney. Sorry, 525 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 12: if you received a copy. 526 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 5: Of the criminal complaint, yes, n. 527 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 12: You at me to read that to you or not? 528 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 12: Internet's probable love received way of reading. Obstructing an officer 529 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 12: faces an excellent penalty a ten thousand dollars fine, nine 530 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 12: months in jail or all parton has youd be the 531 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 12: terriminal complaint. That's why probable costs. 532 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: For the chart and there's more. Listen to this guy, 533 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: poor mouthing. 534 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 5: Sir, what do you about the purpose on that? 535 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 12: Those are the conditions who'd be released here today? 536 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 5: I had twenty dollars in my wallet and the other 537 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 5: in himself. 538 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: That's right from our friends at w l UK TV. 539 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: That's Fox eleven. What he's got twenty dollars in his wallet. 540 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 1: I hope they don't ask the wife to pay his 541 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: court fees. Straight back out to the national news anchor 542 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: Salem News Channel, Ryan Borgwart and court, those charges are 543 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: not enough. I don't know who came up with those charges, 544 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: But tell me what's happening now. Is it true he 545 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: walked out on a five hundred dollars bond. That is true. 546 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 2: And I thought the very same thing when I first 547 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: saw the charges. This is not enough for what he did, 548 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: what he put everybody through, how much money he costs 549 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 2: the county. But yes, they gave him. The judge gave 550 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 2: him a five hundred dollars bond that he doesn't even 551 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: have to pay unless he misses any court hearings. So 552 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 2: what was interesting about that court hearing too, we talk 553 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 2: about the emotional family impact of all of this, is 554 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 2: his parents were in that courtroom. However, they didn't speak 555 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 2: to him. He was let out through one set of 556 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 2: doors by the bailiffs and the parents were let out 557 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: the back door to avoid the reporters. Of course they 558 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: probably didn't want to speak with them, but that emotional 559 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 2: impact it's had on the family. Apparently it looks like 560 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: he might be speaking to his parents. But he definitely 561 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 2: deserves more than a five hundred dollars bond, and he 562 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 2: should have had to pay it at least that if 563 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: you can, he should be behind bars. He shouldn't be 564 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: able to sit back there and think about what he's done. 565 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,320 Speaker 2: He just got back from a vacation from Europe, essentially 566 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 2: hanging out with a woman that he left his family for, 567 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 2: he faked his own death for. He should have to 568 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960 Speaker 2: sit behind bars for a little while and think about 569 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,800 Speaker 2: what he has done. So that bond should have been 570 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: higher and he should have been made to pay it. 571 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 1: You know, I'm very curious, Christina didn't the judge say 572 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: he was not a flight. 573 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 2: Risk, which was also interesting. How is this guy that 574 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 2: faked his own death he planned it for seven months 575 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 2: at least. How has this man that faked his own 576 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 2: death and took off to Europe this intricate route of 577 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 2: greyhound buses and hopping flights to Paris? How is he 578 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 2: not a flight risk? Is it because he has twenty 579 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: dollars in his pocket. How do we know he's not 580 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 2: going to get money from this mystery woman overseas. How 581 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 2: do we know he doesn't have a stash of money 582 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 2: of those foreign accounts. We don't know any of this. 583 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: So it doesn't make any sense to me that he 584 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,280 Speaker 2: is not a flight risk, considering that the very reason 585 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 2: he's sitting in court is because he hopped out of 586 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 2: the country. 587 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: To Greg Moore's high profile lawyer, joining us at a 588 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 1: palm beach. This is another issue. Of course, he can 589 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: be prosecuted for insurance fraud. That would be a felony 590 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: given the amount of three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars. 591 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: But this is unequal treatment under the law. That's due 592 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: process is a fourteenth Amendment ringing a bell in your head, Morse, 593 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: let me point out a couple of people that ended 594 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 1: up going to jail for piccadillos like this, and I'll 595 00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 1: start with the one that just got Morgan brought up earlier, 596 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: Jennifer will Banks. 597 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 3: This is a hysteria with regard to Ryan Bordrot. Everybody 598 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 3: thinks people should go to prison for every indiscretion. This 599 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 3: is absurd. The judge was absolutely right. He is not 600 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,200 Speaker 3: a flight risk. He came back on his own, dave 601 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 3: his passport up to the court. These people called the police. 602 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 3: He's also maybe you could charge him with attempted insurance 603 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: fraud him up. 604 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: What do you mean passport? He's already made a copy 605 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: and used it to get into Canada and then leave 606 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: the country. And the only reason about the money is 607 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: because he's spent it all. 608 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 3: But you're well one, these are middle income people. It 609 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 3: seems he had five thousand dollars, which the story is 610 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 3: reported were his life savings. So all you're going to 611 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 3: do by keeping this guy in jail on this nonsense 612 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 3: charge in this this ridiculous situation that is not serious criminally, 613 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 3: is to destroy his family even further because he can't work. 614 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: But you're not getting to me, Brandt. Could you straighten 615 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,840 Speaker 1: out Greg Remorse? IRV Brandt. I know Greg Remorse is 616 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,920 Speaker 1: just doing the party line about his innocent blah blah blah. 617 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: But what about all the money and expense and the 618 00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: danger that was incurred trying to find him? You know 619 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: what we just talked about Jennifer Wilbanks, it's so called 620 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: runaway bride. What about Carly Russell or listen. 621 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 9: Alabama nursing student carl Russell calls nine to one one 622 00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 9: to report a stranded toddler on the side of a 623 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 9: busy highway, describing the toddler as three to four years 624 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 9: old and only wearing a diaper, walking alone on I 625 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:21,359 Speaker 9: four fifty nine in the Birmingham Metro. Russell ben calls 626 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 9: her brother's girlfriend, tells her she's watching the toddler until 627 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,319 Speaker 9: police arrive, but the call ends abruptly. Police arrived at 628 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 9: the spot Russell called from and find her wigs, cell phone, 629 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 9: and purse on the roadway near the vehicle, But Carly 630 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 9: Russell is gone and. 631 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: We're learning to top it all off, Emily Borgart's wife 632 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: has filed for separation. 633 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 9: Caitlin Armstrong murders pro cyclist Moe Wilson after Wilson goes 634 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,240 Speaker 9: out with Armstrong's boyfriend. Armstrong flees town right after the murder, 635 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 9: using multiple identities, changing her hair color and style, and 636 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 9: even gets a nose job. Flying from Texas to New 637 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 9: York to Costa Rica. US marshals take a flyer and 638 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 9: run an ad in Costa Rica. She's arrested and flown 639 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 9: back to Texas, where she's tried, convicted, and sentenced to 640 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 9: life in prison. 641 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 1: Brandt remember our target, Taitlin Armstrong, now convicted of murder. 642 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: Do you remember what she put the US marshals through? 643 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 8: I do remember, Nancy. It was an extensive search and 644 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 8: it was very, very manpower intensive. That case, when it 645 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 8: goes international, takes a lot of time and effort by 646 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 8: multiple agencies to conduct the search in the same way 647 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,640 Speaker 8: that the search that we're talking about today. And I 648 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,959 Speaker 8: disagree with defense counsel that he is in a flight risk. 649 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 8: This man did an elaborate plan to fake his own death. 650 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 8: This wasn't a spur of the moment thing. This was 651 00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 8: a very detailed, well planned out scheme to make people 652 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 8: believe that he was dead. Then he left the country. 653 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just thinking it through, or Brent, let 654 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: me throw this to Judy Hoe, clinical forensic neuropsychologist to 655 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: go through all of this, the wife thinking he's dead 656 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: at the bottom of a lake, trying to explain it 657 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:19,439 Speaker 1: to the little boys, all just to have sex. It's 658 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: just it's mind boggling that you would do that to 659 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 1: your family and incur all the danger and expanse to 660 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 1: law enforcement trying to find him. 661 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 10: And Nancy, we're trying to understand this from the perspectives. 662 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: Of reasonable people. 663 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 10: This is obviously not reasonable. This is an incredulous attempt 664 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 10: to get away at a situation that you're not happy about. 665 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 10: That's fine, you're not happy with your marriage. Maybe you're 666 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 10: not happy right now being a father, You're going through 667 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 10: a midlife crisis, whatever the case may be. 668 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: This is an obvious crisis man in their midlife crises. 669 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: I'm uh, you know what Joe Scott Morgan jumping off 670 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,880 Speaker 1: what doctor Gudy just said. With the degree of planning, 671 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: the technical expertise, and you know you've been on plenty 672 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: of homicide or missing people investigations, you know what it's like. 673 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,319 Speaker 1: But then the stunner of finding out he's alive and 674 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: well and someone's bed at his Bekistan for Pete's like 675 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: and cash this Joe Scott talked about evidence. He was 676 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: apparently speaking to law enforcement on FaceTime every day. 677 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,799 Speaker 7: Yeah, to what degree do you want to try to 678 00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 7: disappear if you're not actually going to disappear? And he 679 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 7: went to great links. Nancy. Remember you know, listen, I'll 680 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 7: speak as a man here. You know, carry a wallet, 681 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,960 Speaker 7: right and He even sacrificed that he leaves this behind 682 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 7: in the tackle box in order to give the impression 683 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 7: that credit cards, driver's license, his car keys, they're all gone. 684 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,920 Speaker 7: They're sinking to the bottom, along allegedly with his body, 685 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,439 Speaker 7: which of course never pops up out of the water, 686 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,960 Speaker 7: which is something that we would be very interested in 687 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,239 Speaker 7: seeing if we were searching for a body that might 688 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 7: be in a lake and it's not turning up. So 689 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 7: you could smell a rat early on in this. But 690 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 7: he did go to great links, Nancy in order to 691 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 7: try to facilitate this, but he wound up not being 692 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 7: able to finish the deal relative to bring this to 693 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,600 Speaker 7: a conclusion. He didn't just fall off of the map here, 694 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 7: and we've had a lot of cases over the years 695 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 7: where people did actually fall off the map. Hell, there's 696 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 7: people all out there right now that folks are still 697 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 7: looking for. This guy did a miserable job at attempting 698 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,800 Speaker 7: to do this, and all along the way he winds 699 00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 7: up destroying his children's lives, not to mention his wives. 700 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds for Ryan Borgwart, but I 701 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, justice for Borgwart may end up hurting 702 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: the family and the children even more, but that is 703 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,120 Speaker 1: not a consideration for a lady Justice. Nancy Grace signing off, 704 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,880 Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow night at sixty nine o'clock sharp Eastern, 705 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: and until then, good nights.