WEBVTT - Sort Your Finances Out Before Reeves’s Big Day

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. Welcome to the Marin

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<v Speaker 1>Talks Money Weekly round up, our debrief on the biggest

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<v Speaker 1>stories in markets and economics. I'm Marin Zumset, Web Editor

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<v Speaker 1>at Large for Bloomberg UK Wealth.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Jointed stair Peg what's at of the Money to

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<v Speaker 2>stilled newsletter and senior reporter at Bloomberg.

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<v Speaker 1>John, We need to talk about poor Rachel Reeves again,

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<v Speaker 1>don't we?

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<v Speaker 2>Poor Rachel Reeves.

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<v Speaker 1>You wrote this week about how her next fiscal event

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<v Speaker 1>is coming up very shortly, and you think she might

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<v Speaker 1>stand up and say do you want the good news

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<v Speaker 1>or the bad news? Which point everyone will roll around

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<v Speaker 1>laughing because everyone knows that there is no good news.

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<v Speaker 2>There is no good news, and I mean a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of this is down the Unfortunately, Rachel Reeves just lacky

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<v Speaker 2>political nouse. I think, to be honest, there was daft

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<v Speaker 2>of her to talk up her fiscal rules so aggressively

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<v Speaker 2>and then leave no room for error in the last budget,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's basically what she's done. So the fiscal rules

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<v Speaker 2>themselves are just the same made up nonsense that every

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<v Speaker 2>kind of light chancellor has had for years and years.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 2>They pretty much always miss them, but it's all about

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<v Speaker 2>talking a good game about how you're going to hit them,

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<v Speaker 2>so then they themselves don't matter anywhere near as much

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<v Speaker 2>as they're made out to matter. But obviously the whole

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<v Speaker 2>Liz Trusts kind of LDI coincidence tobacco meant that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Raach Reeves has made a really big deal of how

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going it is to meet these rules. Otherwise the

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<v Speaker 2>guilt market will definitely blow up. At least that's the

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<v Speaker 2>perception's trying to give, and so she has to stick

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<v Speaker 2>to them. She's also said I'm not going to put

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<v Speaker 2>up taxes anymore, and so that's why it's basically all

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<v Speaker 2>kind of falling on the idea that benefit cuts are

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<v Speaker 2>somehow going to you know, fill this black hole, and

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<v Speaker 2>it will probably find the figures enough that the RBR

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<v Speaker 2>comes back and says, Okay, well you can eploy make

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<v Speaker 2>it as long as we make this outlinedish assumption of

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<v Speaker 2>what's going to happen in phases team.

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<v Speaker 1>But the benefit cuts and if there's been a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of talk about welfare this week, and a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>talk about the various different things that you can access

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<v Speaker 1>via the welfare system, particularly new cars and so on,

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<v Speaker 1>notability which you and I have talked about and been

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<v Speaker 1>scandalized by for about ten years, and now finally everyone

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<v Speaker 1>else is also scandalized by it. I'm just actually going

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<v Speaker 1>to read you the first paragraph from the Times today

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<v Speaker 1>which I was interested by. Do you want a free

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<v Speaker 1>new car? There are one hundred and sixty seven models

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<v Speaker 1>to choose from the Motibility website. If you handle a

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<v Speaker 1>part of your weekly mobility benefit, you can drive away

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<v Speaker 1>with the least Kia Picanto web fifteen thousand pounds. You

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<v Speaker 1>can go a little further. I won't to do the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing because we will got there, but just by

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<v Speaker 1>now you can go a little further and you can

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<v Speaker 1>get a bmw I four M sport And when you

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<v Speaker 1>do that, free rod, tax ric cover, servicing, mot turan,

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<v Speaker 1>winscreen repair, installation of a charge point, blah blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is interesting because it's one of the first

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<v Speaker 1>things that's really cut through with the public on the

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<v Speaker 1>extent to which welfare has become slightly out of control.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea that one in five new cars on the

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<v Speaker 1>road could be part of a welfare scheme is one

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<v Speaker 1>of the first things that's really got everyone going, well,

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<v Speaker 1>hang on a tech, have things gone a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>too far? Are people who are using the system slightly

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<v Speaker 1>ruining it for everyone who needs the system? Etc. So

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<v Speaker 1>she had a window, she had a window, didn't she

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<v Speaker 1>to do something about welfare and do something about the

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<v Speaker 1>various problems in the benefit system. But she seems to

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<v Speaker 1>have only done it to a very mild degree five

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<v Speaker 1>billion or so, so she's not really helped herself in

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<v Speaker 1>the way that she possibly could have.

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<v Speaker 2>There, Well, that's the problem. You're acting from a police

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<v Speaker 2>of panic. There should be sensible to forms of their stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's all very complicated, and it's all because of

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<v Speaker 2>the various definite centers, and also the edity and thing

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<v Speaker 2>is that people keep taking the statistics at face value.

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<v Speaker 2>So you'll still get people arguing Blaine that this you know,

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<v Speaker 2>there's been that mental health issues have rocketed because of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, COVID or because of social media or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>when in fact that the obvious kind of point is

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<v Speaker 2>that there's being a change in the benefits system that

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<v Speaker 2>has made people decide to apply for disability benefits rather

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<v Speaker 2>than the previous jobless benefits, which which have changed so

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<v Speaker 2>it's that that's what's driving it, and we may be

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<v Speaker 2>meaning a much more clear eyed view of this stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And unfortunately you don't get that because obviously because politics,

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<v Speaker 2>but also because Rachel Reeves has left herself in this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of panic zone where she needs to find money fast,

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<v Speaker 2>and probably all that will happen actually is that whatever

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<v Speaker 2>does get done will mean that some unusually honest group

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<v Speaker 2>of people who genuinely need this stuff will get locked

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<v Speaker 2>out of the system, and everyone who's scamming it will

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<v Speaker 2>still be able to scam it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, we have ideas for her there, don't we

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<v Speaker 1>We have a de will come back another time, we do.

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<v Speaker 1>There are lots of things she could do. She could

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<v Speaker 1>sell them coin. We're one of the biggest. UK government

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<v Speaker 1>is one of the biggest holders of bitcoin in the world,

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<v Speaker 1>along with the US government and the North Korean government.

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<v Speaker 1>I gather an awful lot of bitcoin.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting, she missed the top.

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<v Speaker 1>She missed the top, but still on the list. She

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<v Speaker 1>could she could give it a go. She could instruct

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<v Speaker 1>the Bank of England to sell the rest of the gold.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, revalue the gold in America.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, there is one group of people who really feel

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<v Speaker 1>that they could help Rachel reads out a lot, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad about that because she needs someone behind her.

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<v Speaker 1>And that is a new group called the Patriotic Millionaires UK.

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<v Speaker 1>And we've talked about this slot before, John, but only

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<v Speaker 1>in the US context. There's a group of the apparently

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<v Speaker 1>super rich in the US. Do you think that every

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<v Speaker 1>everything can be solved if they pay more tax? So

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<v Speaker 1>they would like to be forced to pay no tax

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<v Speaker 1>by the government. They don't want to do it voluntarily.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but they want the government to

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<v Speaker 1>force them and other rich people to do it. Now

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<v Speaker 1>we have our very own, very own network of millionaires.

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<v Speaker 1>Patrock Millionaire's UK is a non partisan work of British millionaires,

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<v Speaker 1>multiple industries and backgrounds from across the UK. It delivers

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<v Speaker 1>a single message, no single mission missions. We're back to missions,

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<v Speaker 1>a single mission delivered the voice of wealth. Who knew

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<v Speaker 1>wealth had a voice to the better written by changing

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<v Speaker 1>the system to end extreme wealth and make those with

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<v Speaker 1>it make their fair and proper contribution. So what they

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<v Speaker 1>want is a wealth tax at a couple of a

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<v Speaker 1>wealth tax at a couple of percent a year. And

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<v Speaker 1>they've had a van going around Westminster with various slogans

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<v Speaker 1>on it about how the well off should pay more tax.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not particularly keen on this. I'd like to hear

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<v Speaker 1>your views on it. I'm not particularly keen on it

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<v Speaker 1>because all the evidence shows that it won't work. Wealth

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<v Speaker 1>taxes are very, very difficult to implement. The very wealthy

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<v Speaker 1>are very mobile. They mostly just leave and that's why

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<v Speaker 1>almost nobody has a wealth tax of this type anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And the other thing I would say is that the

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<v Speaker 1>government is already doing is absolute utmost to tax wealth.

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<v Speaker 1>The UK has a lot of wealth taxes, inheritance taxes,

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<v Speaker 1>a wealth tax non index capital gains as a wealth

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<v Speaker 1>tax are you're in the main you're paying. You're paying

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<v Speaker 1>tax on inflation gains, nominal gains rather than real gains.

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<v Speaker 1>So that stamp duty is a wealth tax. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>wealth tax when you see stamp on your equity trading,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's a wealth text when you see it on

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<v Speaker 1>the buying and selling of how's it. So that's three

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<v Speaker 1>just for starters. I wouldn't have said that we need

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<v Speaker 1>a new one. But John, you may feel differently.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I don't feel deffinitely. I think the tax system

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<v Speaker 2>overall should be simplified. And I think that if it

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<v Speaker 2>was simplified then you would probably start to balance out

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<v Speaker 2>on the und income, mind the un income. But I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's a completely different issue. I mean, the practical

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<v Speaker 2>point is actually the most important one, regardless of anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are saying that we should charge the super

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<v Speaker 2>wealthy whoever you define super wealthy eyes if you'd see

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<v Speaker 2>and that you should charge a group of people one

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<v Speaker 2>percent of their overall value a.

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<v Speaker 1>Year thereafter two actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, exactly between one and two percent, or those

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<v Speaker 2>people will leave because it's worth the way to leave,

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<v Speaker 2>because if you're team two percent a year, eventually you

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<v Speaker 2>won't have you wouldn't be enough to be over the

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<v Speaker 2>threshold quick says from whether that wealth is kind of

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<v Speaker 2>liquid or not. And a lot of the thing it's

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<v Speaker 2>not liquid is just what's peeing pretty much any place

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<v Speaker 2>to move to a country that is not going to

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<v Speaker 2>do that to you, and there's plenty of them.

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<v Speaker 1>So well, I mean, one of the things that really

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<v Speaker 1>does do is it really really does disincentivize any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of entrepreneurialism or capital formation. So you know, if you

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<v Speaker 1>set up a company that in say I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>fintech of some kind, and it's valued on paper at

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<v Speaker 1>thirty million pounds, but it isn't really worth thirty million

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<v Speaker 1>pounds because you can't sell any of it. You can't

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<v Speaker 1>liquidate your two percent of a company like that here

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<v Speaker 1>or there. So what do you do where you just leave?

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<v Speaker 2>I think the really important point is that this is

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<v Speaker 2>already happening right now with the new inheritance tax changes. No,

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<v Speaker 2>because I think what often gets overlooked, and some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of unaccountably somewhat gets overlooked, is that it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>the farmers who have large amountcy la quid assets and

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<v Speaker 2>relatively low liquid income with which to then pay off

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<v Speaker 2>the inherence tax built and therefore may need to break

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<v Speaker 2>up their businesses. The player family businesses that are in

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<v Speaker 2>the same situation, and I think probably they haven't attracted

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<v Speaker 2>as much attention because perhaps they don't want to draw

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<v Speaker 2>as much attention to themselves, and because there are solutions,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're expensive solutions. So I think that as you say,

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<v Speaker 2>we we already are getting to the point where the

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<v Speaker 2>walth tax is are quite detrimental and disincentivizing. Taking any

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<v Speaker 2>furthers can be a mistake.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they also stop people coming here. And I was

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<v Speaker 1>having a conversation only this week about someone who would

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<v Speaker 1>have been living in the UK but is not living

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK because he doesn't want to be classified

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<v Speaker 1>as a resident in the UK, because he doesn't want

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<v Speaker 1>fall into the ten years for the iht NE. So

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<v Speaker 1>we now we have people who don't come here as

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<v Speaker 1>a result. And it's a bit like with Scotland's income

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<v Speaker 1>taxes being higher than England's income taxes. You know, you

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<v Speaker 1>can't measure who didn't come. You can't measure who didn't come,

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<v Speaker 1>and it really matters. But I said I had ideas today.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm only offering solutions today, I'm not offering problems. So

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<v Speaker 1>I have a solution for the Patriotic Millionaire's UK. And

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to give you the entire website address because

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<v Speaker 1>I want to make absolutely sure that they can really

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<v Speaker 1>get that www dot gov dot UK Forward slash guidance

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<v Speaker 1>forward slash voluntary payment donations to government. You can go

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<v Speaker 1>there and you can give as much of your money

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<v Speaker 1>as you like to the government right now, right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Just go there, do it. Hand the money over. They

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<v Speaker 1>can just hand it directly demotibility. Bob's your uncle.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean they could take all the glids they get

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<v Speaker 2>for having the institutions that spreads these divine driving around

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<v Speaker 2>to Westminster or the dest it and put that money

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<v Speaker 2>towards the government. I mean that much. That must be

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<v Speaker 2>a few hundred pounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe, I don't think the bankles that much. Don't look

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<v Speaker 1>like that greater event. That's deflection, John, deflecture from the core,

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<v Speaker 1>which is that you can give as much money to

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<v Speaker 1>the government as you like. No one is stopping you.

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<v Speaker 1>Never has. So that's my top tip for the day.

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<v Speaker 1>Top tip.

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<v Speaker 2>There's not one partisan idea as well. I would take

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<v Speaker 2>an issue with that so slightly. There's not non partisan

0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:38.319
<v Speaker 2>to want to get rid of wealth. And the underpinning

0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:42.840
<v Speaker 2>organizations that these are spend offs from are generally things

0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:46.040
<v Speaker 2>you would describe as being the thing quite far left

0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:51.000
<v Speaker 2>would be a reasonable description, and the Tax Justice Network,

0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I think. So you know, they can have all these

0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 2>like patriotic millionaires, but it's you that's just a cover.

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:02.120
<v Speaker 1>So I'm feeling a bit mean about the patriote millionaires.

0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.000
<v Speaker 1>I've had quick rundown the list of who they are.

0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:05.760
<v Speaker 1>I'd be quite interested to see proof from all of

0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:09.160
<v Speaker 1>them that they'd qualify for said tax. But that's just

0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:13.960
<v Speaker 1>that's just mean. So my top tip today has been

0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.640
<v Speaker 1>for people who are rich and would like to be

0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.640
<v Speaker 1>less rich, which is perfectly valid. But I think your

0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.680
<v Speaker 1>top tip today is probably for people who'd like to

0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.880
<v Speaker 1>be richer coming up to the end of the tax here.

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, so I guess ahead of this thing statement

0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.280
<v Speaker 2>just in case, because you don't know. I mean, I

0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:34.600
<v Speaker 2>know the region wants to keep it quiet, and I

0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>would that would be great. If she can make it

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.440
<v Speaker 2>just one by a year, that'd be great. But you

0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 2>just don't know what she's going to stand up and

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.720
<v Speaker 2>say next y andesday. So you need to use your

0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:48.240
<v Speaker 2>and your allowances. You need to use the few remaining

0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:50.960
<v Speaker 2>legal tax breaks are open to you as a civilian

0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 2>of the UK. So you know your twenty thousand pound

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.559
<v Speaker 2>eyes are allowance, your sixty thousand pounds pension allowance, that

0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.640
<v Speaker 2>as assuming you haven't got stuff to carry over and

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.679
<v Speaker 2>that you heard at least sixty thousand pounds, but also

0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:09.360
<v Speaker 2>capital gains tax. This one just struck me because two

0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.920
<v Speaker 2>years ago the capital gains tax allowance was just over

0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.360
<v Speaker 2>twelve thousand pounds, and if you're not someone who's like

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.080
<v Speaker 2>mega rich, and if you don't sell assets very often,

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 2>if you don't do a lot of trade, and I

0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 2>probably haven't really thought about that if you've got anything

0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.480
<v Speaker 2>outside because it would probably be covered, but now you

0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.160
<v Speaker 2>know it's down the three grand. You know, if you

0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:31.920
<v Speaker 2>were holding some daft be stocks that maybe a pal

0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.760
<v Speaker 2>had told you about and you happen to get lucky

0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:36.560
<v Speaker 2>and you know don't want it in your eyeser because

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 2>you're been a bit careless. There's a good chance that

0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.200
<v Speaker 2>you actually might own capital gains tax this year if

0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.680
<v Speaker 2>you sold it. So just you know, look at what

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:47.319
<v Speaker 2>you've got, have a thing about what's not already sheltered,

0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:49.719
<v Speaker 2>and just make the effort to either get it in

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 2>an ISA or think about realizing some losses and some

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:59.120
<v Speaker 2>gains under the limit this year and then just sort

0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:03.120
<v Speaker 2>of like making you see your CGT alons each time

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 2>shield because it really is sort of small new, very very.

0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.520
<v Speaker 1>Wide wise advice, John, Thank you very much, and just

0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 1>be absolutely a patrick patriotic millionaires. Flat advice was not

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:17.200
<v Speaker 1>for you. That was not for you. Don't do any

0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:26.960
<v Speaker 1>of those things. Okay, thanks for listening to this week's

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Maren Talks Money Debrief. If you like our show, rate review,

0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.120
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Also be sure

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 1>to follow me and John on ex or Twitter at

0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 1>marinas w and John Underscore Stepic. This episode was produced

0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.000
<v Speaker 1>by some Mesiety, production support and sound designed by Moses

0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and Our executive producer is Brendan Francis and you questions

0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 1>are comments on this show and all our shows are

0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 1>always welcome. Our show email is merin Money at Bloomberg

0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 1>dot net, so do get in touch. If you have

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>any ideas for Rachel Reefs that we could explore on

0:14:53.840 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 1>the show, She'll appreciate it.