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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane, along

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Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Brownwitz Jailee. We bring you

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Speaker 1: insight from the best and economics, finance, investment and international relations.

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Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance and Apple Podcast SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com

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Speaker 1: and of course on the Bloomberg Terminal. Yeah, while the

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Speaker 1: global Chief Investment Strategy A black Rock joins us. Now,

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Speaker 1: while I want to go straight to a quote with

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Speaker 1: yours on a recession in Europe. You've been on top

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Speaker 1: of that story for a while. You've pushed the same

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Speaker 1: story recently, and you've asked the question why equities pricing

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Speaker 1: kit and you're not alone widely. Why do you think

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Speaker 1: that's the case. Why do I think equity is pricing

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Speaker 1: in not a recession? I think there is a lot

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Speaker 1: of hope in market that the innovation of corporate would

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Speaker 1: eventually continue to come through and margin will stay elevated.

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Speaker 1: But in our view, actually that is unrealistic to to

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Speaker 1: expect that in this environment where coastal production is going higher,

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Speaker 1: labor shortage is prevalent, not just in Europe, in the

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Speaker 1: US as well, where I am right now, it feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm man in your studio for you today. In

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Speaker 1: that kind of environment, we expect margin to actually come

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Speaker 1: under pressure, and eventually the current market consensus for earnings growth,

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Speaker 1: not just in Europe but also in the US will

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Speaker 1: have to come down to meet the reality that we

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Speaker 1: are heading into a recession in Europe this year and

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Speaker 1: one in the US likely next year as well. Realie,

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Speaker 1: I find your note to be the Grimce note on

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Speaker 1: Europe I have read and will not mince words about it.

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Speaker 1: It's very, very difficult. Does Madame Leguarde have the nominal

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Speaker 1: GDP firepower, the economic animals spirit to affect the rate

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Speaker 1: path you suggest? Can? Can do? They have the interior

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Speaker 1: structure to do higher interest rates. I want to pick

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Speaker 1: up on something that Lisa talked about, which is this

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Speaker 1: idea of own reality. Right, So, we're in an environment

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Speaker 1: shaped by supply constraint, which is very very different from

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Speaker 1: the Great Moderation that has been shaped by demand and spending.

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Speaker 1: And in this environment, actually the tradeoff facing central banks

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Speaker 1: are so much harder, the trade off between growth and inflation,

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Speaker 1: and so far what we have heard from Madame la

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Speaker 1: guard is perhaps some leap service to this tradeoff, but

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Speaker 1: not really acknowledging how costly it would be to actually

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Speaker 1: bring down inflation through hiking rates and what that means

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Speaker 1: for growth and what that means for the labor market.

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Speaker 1: So we believe that until central bankers acknowledge that tradeoff

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Speaker 1: and choose to live with inflation, we are going to

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Speaker 1: be in this environment for an extended period of time

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Speaker 1: where the politics of inflation will be prevalent instead of

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Speaker 1: the economics of inflation will, which will become clearer as

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Speaker 1: we enter next year. But right now, all eyes and

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Speaker 1: fighting inflation, which based on what we saw yesterday, the

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Speaker 1: core part of inflation is proving to be sticky and persistent. Well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people would agree with you about Europe,

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Speaker 1: and you're hearing a lot of notes are reading them

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Speaker 1: that are saying underway Europe, it's not so clear. In

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Speaker 1: the US, it's not consistent in terms of the messaging.

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Speaker 1: How far away from realistic pricing do you think we

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Speaker 1: are in equities even after what we saw yesterday? Right now,

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Speaker 1: obviously markets are moving very very quickly. Yesterday very dramatic self,

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Speaker 1: but today bouncing back a little bit. We believe that

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Speaker 1: actually more needs to be given back to properly reflect

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Speaker 1: the fact that we should be looking at the earnings recession.

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Speaker 1: So right now, if you look at your today market pricing,

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Speaker 1: we think that actually the rate path is to some

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Speaker 1: extent fully uh reflected in equity pricing, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that earnings is going to store uh greatly is is

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Speaker 1: not yet reflected in comparison. However, credit is pricing in

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Speaker 1: a version of growth stalling, which is why in a

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Speaker 1: whole portfolio context we prefer to own credit over over

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Speaker 1: equity and just building on this this idea of un reality. UM. Now, Lisa,

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Speaker 1: you asked about the US, we also believe that the

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Speaker 1: Fed has yet to acknowledge the very difficult trade off

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Speaker 1: between growth and inflation. UM. Will pay attention to the

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Speaker 1: economic forecast next next week, but in our assessment, actually

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Speaker 1: in order to bring inflation back down to two percent

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Speaker 1: over two years, we could be looking at three million

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Speaker 1: additional people out of a job and also deep procession,

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Speaker 1: true present contraction, which is currently not being talked about.

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Speaker 1: This is the sort of tough tradeoff that we're looking

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Speaker 1: at in this environment shaped by supply constraint, and we

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Speaker 1: think that markets will wake up to that in time.

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Speaker 1: Welly of Black Rock White Fantastic as olwise right now

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Speaker 1: and this is the most interesting time to speak to

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Speaker 1: the gentleman from Rice University with mechanical engineering is a background,

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Speaker 1: he went on to engineer all sorts of efforts in

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Speaker 1: private equity and venture capital. He's the governor the Republican

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Speaker 1: from Virginia, Glen Youngcan, and we're thrilled the governor could

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Speaker 1: join us this morning. Governor, I cannot think of a

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Speaker 1: time to speak to you with someone who's pro business,

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Speaker 1: pro innovation, dealing with the Republican Party that wants to

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Speaker 1: bob bomb Rob Portman and the rest. Back to an

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Speaker 1: anti business time? How anti business anti young Can is

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Speaker 1: your Republican party? But I don't think the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: is anti business. And in fact, Republican governors all over

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Speaker 1: the country have been leading the recovery coming out of

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. And that's exactly what we've been doing in Virginia.

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Speaker 1: We've got taxes down, we're open for business. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: great announcements from companies. We have a lot of open jobs,

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Speaker 1: and that's one of our biggest challenges is getting people

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Speaker 1: back to work. I am really concerned about the inflationary

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Speaker 1: policies that we see coming out of the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: and tom we see the ramifications of that yesterday, which

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Speaker 1: is and anybody who thought that this was going to

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Speaker 1: be short lived has been shaken because what we're seeing

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Speaker 1: is the persistent result of bad policies, inflationary policies, with

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Speaker 1: grocery prices up, fuel prices up, and Virginians and Americans

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Speaker 1: feeling it in their wallet and they're having to make

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Speaker 1: compromises as a result. We have iconic American companies moving,

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Speaker 1: for instance, from Chicago to Greater Washington, d C translated Virginia.

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Speaker 1: We've got entrepreneurial companies such as your announcement today on

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Speaker 1: an innovative company and on a wage basis, they're competing

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Speaker 1: with Amazon, who's lifting compensation for drivers and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of their employees. Is there a wage spiral in Virginia, Well,

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Speaker 1: there is a There is a real wage inflation challenge

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Speaker 1: um there. These these wages are growing, but they're not

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Speaker 1: growing as fast as inflation and and the cost of living.

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Speaker 1: I am really excited about these new companies that are coming,

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Speaker 1: like Plenty Unlimited that we're announcing today that is going

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Speaker 1: to build the largest indoor growing facility in the world,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna see them right here in Virginia. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna compete for talent. This is why we have to

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Speaker 1: get people back into the labor force. We've seen labor

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Speaker 1: participation drop substantially in Virginia. We were up near sixty

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Speaker 1: seven percent prior to the pandemic, and unfortunately we dropped

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Speaker 1: and we're in the sixty three and a half percentage

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Speaker 1: is now. We've got to get people back to work.

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Speaker 1: These great jobs, these next generation kinds of opportunities will

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Speaker 1: pull people back into the workforce, but we've got to

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Speaker 1: stop all of the underpinnings that have encouraged them to

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Speaker 1: stay home and out of the workforce and get them

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Speaker 1: back to work. Governor, this indoor vertical farming company and

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Speaker 1: the indoor vertical farm that you're espousing really speaks to

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Speaker 1: an agenda more commonly associated with the Democrats in terms

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Speaker 1: of trying to make things greener and make things more

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Speaker 1: modern with respect to the carbon footprint. Do you find

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Speaker 1: yourself bumping up against that stereotype when trying to have

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Speaker 1: a more modern approach that brings in more young workers. Well,

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Speaker 1: not really. I mean, agriculture is Virginia's largest private industry,

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Speaker 1: and technology is one of our fastest growing sectors. And

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Speaker 1: so to bring agriculture and technology together in the common

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Speaker 1: and Wealth of Virginia makes perfect sense. And in fact,

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Speaker 1: we have absolutely become the hub. With today's announcement with Plenty,

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Speaker 1: which is going to build a three hundred million dollar

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Speaker 1: facility right outside of Richmond, three hundred new jobs, and

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Speaker 1: our announcement two days ago with Aero Farm, we will

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Speaker 1: have the first and second largest indoor growing facilities in Virginia.

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Speaker 1: And yesterday we announced another company being stock expanding their facilities.

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Speaker 1: So we're bringing together our agriculture roots are technology future,

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Speaker 1: and UH forging the way for for an industry of

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Speaker 1: the future. A tech uses far less natural resources as

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Speaker 1: higher yields and and and a great product. And I

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Speaker 1: just think this is part of the future of agriculture

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Speaker 1: is happening right here in Virginia. Just real quick, Governor,

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Speaker 1: I remember speaking with you when you had your private

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Speaker 1: private sector had on about infrastructure and plans that you're

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Speaker 1: looking for, and I'm wondering now that you're in the

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Speaker 1: public sector, if you've been surprised by the partisanship that

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Speaker 1: prevents certain things from happening. If you've been a surprising

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Speaker 1: the other way, well, I do believe that investing in

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Speaker 1: infrastructure broadly is critically important to facilitate growth. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing capacity issues across our infrastructure. I mean we're

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Speaker 1: still rated a D as a nation. We gotta address this.

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Speaker 1: So we're doing it. In Virginia. We moved up substantially

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Speaker 1: in the rankings that infrastructure. Our port is being deepened

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Speaker 1: and widened, our road infrastructure is being improved, Our connectivity

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Speaker 1: and broadband is taking a huge step forward. And this

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Speaker 1: is the kind of progress that we must make. We're

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Speaker 1: doing it both with government led things, but more importantly

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Speaker 1: with public private partnerships. And I think investing in infrastructure

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Speaker 1: will continue to be one of the great challenges and

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Speaker 1: the great opportunities in Virginia in the nation at leasta

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Speaker 1: is that one step closer to asking about count interest

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Speaker 1: is that what you want to store at the government

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Speaker 1: next at a time, so you're you're you're in luck.

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Speaker 1: Going on. Now, we have some technical problems to stop

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Speaker 1: the interview, so we have run out of time set.

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Speaker 1: But next time we love alonga conversation. Governor Glenn Young

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Speaker 1: Cannett of Virginia. Governor, thank you right now, and this

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Speaker 1: is really an honor because I can give you a

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Speaker 1: story about how economists becomes stars. Michelle Meyer. There's a

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Speaker 1: MasterCard economics institute, but far more. One day a girl

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Speaker 1: fell out of Boston University and everybody stopped and said, wow,

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Speaker 1: does she know housing? Michelle Meyer joins us now after

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Speaker 1: years at Bank of America and truly expert on your

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Speaker 1: next mortgage and rent payment. Michelle, let me cut to

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Speaker 1: the chase. How bad is it? How bad? And how

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Speaker 1: persistent will the housing inflation be? Well? Thank you Tom

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Speaker 1: for that wonderful intro um. You know, I think the

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Speaker 1: big challenge for the housing market right now is simply affordability,

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Speaker 1: and that comes from two factors. One is at home

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Speaker 1: prices increased at an extraordinary rate across the country of

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Speaker 1: the last two years running and double digit rates for

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Speaker 1: the major metropolitan areas by our metrics, And we looked

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Speaker 1: at home prices relative to income growth across all of

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Speaker 1: those really specific metro areas. About sixty five percent of

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Speaker 1: the country is considered overvalued. So you have that coupled

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Speaker 1: now with this extraordinary increase of mortgage rates and that

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Speaker 1: has created a huge shock to the housing market. So,

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Speaker 1: as you know, homesales have been falling steadily since the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the year. Right, multi family to the rescue.

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Speaker 1: That's what always happens in the cycle. Can multi family

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Speaker 1: come to the rescue in Nashville or Denver, never to

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Speaker 1: the rescue in New York. But as multi family, are

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Speaker 1: we getting more units? We are? We certainly are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you look at housing starts, they're still running above

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Speaker 1: what you would consider to break even rate, particularly for

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Speaker 1: multi family UM. And remember the lags with multi family

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Speaker 1: is while it takes about a year from the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the project completion UM on average once the construction starts.

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Speaker 1: So UM, you know, you had a lot of projects

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Speaker 1: that were ongoing, the development was happening, and now you're

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Speaker 1: starting to see those completions. So you're starting to see

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Speaker 1: those projects enter the market in a bigger way. So

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Speaker 1: you still have supply hitting the market, particularly in the

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Speaker 1: multifamily space UM and that should help because you can

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Speaker 1: have some conversion from owning to renting given the affordability

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Speaker 1: strange in the housing market, But look at owner's equivalent

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Speaker 1: rent um in last yesterday's report and c p I

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Speaker 1: that is accelerating further. UM. So there's still rental pressures

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Speaker 1: as well, which further strains affordability across all the do

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Speaker 1: about that, What can right hikes do about that rental

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Speaker 1: price pressure with same build Well, I would argue that

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Speaker 1: that transmission from monetary policy is quite apparent in the

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Speaker 1: housing market right now and will be increasingly in the

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Speaker 1: rental market as well. You know, these are interest sensitive sectors, UM,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that the fat is increasing as rapidly

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Speaker 1: as they have, and you'd argue, for reasons that are

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Speaker 1: quite clear to contain prices and inflation UM, that increase

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Speaker 1: in interest rates has slowed down demand of housing and

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Speaker 1: in turn it will put that type of downward pressure

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Speaker 1: on on home prices as well, on home price appreciation,

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Speaker 1: which then spills into rental inflation. But that all takes time,

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Speaker 1: It is not immediate, but I would argue it's already

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Speaker 1: underway that transmission, well, at least on the housing price side,

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Speaker 1: but on the rental issue, I just want to pick

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Speaker 1: up John's right to bring up the fact that rents

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Speaker 1: are still climbing and faster than people have previously expected,

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Speaker 1: at least based on the CPI report from yesterday. And

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Speaker 1: there's an argument that the higher prices go on houses,

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Speaker 1: the more people are forced to rent, the less affordable

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Speaker 1: it goes, especially given uh the high mortgage rates. Where

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Speaker 1: is this potential for an overshoot at the same time

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Speaker 1: that the people who are least able to handle inflation

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Speaker 1: are feeling all the more pain. Yeah, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: these are these are these are certainly some of the

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Speaker 1: challenges here in terms of finding that ultimate equilibrium in

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Speaker 1: the economy after creating you know, some real imbalances in

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Speaker 1: terms of excess stimulus UM and I think you know,

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Speaker 1: the adjustment is happening, but it's not complete. And in

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Speaker 1: the interim, yes, you've seen this, you know, some push

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Speaker 1: into owning to renting, which is increasing demand for rentals

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Speaker 1: when there's still some um, you know, lag in terms

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Speaker 1: of getting all that supply into the market. But it

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Speaker 1: will come. And frankly, you know, one of the ways

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Speaker 1: it will come in terms of normalizing inflation, normalizing particularly

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Speaker 1: rental inflation, is through the demand side, UM, in the

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Speaker 1: sense of weakening the broader economy, particularly labor market. UM.

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Speaker 1: You have a bit of an income shock and then

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Speaker 1: naturally you start to see that feed through UM. And

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Speaker 1: that's what the share Powell I think it's been saying

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Speaker 1: quite clearly, which is that they are keenly focused on

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Speaker 1: price stability and reducing inflation, and that does mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: sacrificing some real growth. But this really leads to the

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Speaker 1: question of how much pain needs to be inflicted on

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Speaker 1: this economy or how much pain will be inflicted on

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Speaker 1: this economy based on the rate hiking cycle being priced

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Speaker 1: into the market in a way that we are not

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Speaker 1: anticipating because of the lag time, because we're not seeing

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Speaker 1: it yet in some of the metrics. What's your sense

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Speaker 1: of how likely or unlikely a hard landing? I hate

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Speaker 1: using that, but a recession that somewhat significant is given

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Speaker 1: the report that we got yesterday on cp I. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the report yesterday show two things. One is

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Speaker 1: that you are seeing relief on the supply side, and

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Speaker 1: that you know you have. We've seen a drop in

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Speaker 1: energy prices, UM, we're starting to see some easing of

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Speaker 1: goods inflation. That and more should come given what you've

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Speaker 1: seen from container costs coming down, supply chain issues easing,

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Speaker 1: but the demand side. There's still a lot of inflation

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Speaker 1: there and the services economy is feeling that. Um So

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Speaker 1: for the FED that has a lot more control over

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Speaker 1: the demand side, it does give them that type of

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Speaker 1: you know, pushed to continue to raise interest rates cool

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Speaker 1: down the economy, and least to your point, it is

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Speaker 1: taking time because the starting point was really high. As

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Speaker 1: we've been talking about, as I'm talking to you off

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Speaker 1: the last few months. The consumers healthy, there's strong balance sheets,

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Speaker 1: consumers still out there spending and they're navigating this inflation environment. Okay, Michelle,

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Speaker 1: you've been brilliant on the end. Of course, you've got

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Speaker 1: all the resources, a master card to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: Jim Glass when a JP Morgan is pushing against the

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Speaker 1: gloom like no one I've ever seen in the decades

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Speaker 1: he's done this, help us with the Glassman Meyer consumer.

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Speaker 1: How boomy is the consumer? Right now? Look from our dad,

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Speaker 1: we're looking at our our spending pole Stata for the

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Speaker 1: month of August, there was an acceleration in the year

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Speaker 1: year growth rate of consumer spending. And that's you know,

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Speaker 1: even controlling for these movements and gas and oil and

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Speaker 1: autos et cetera. So like the underlying demand that did accelerate.

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Speaker 1: So we'll see what the retail sales report shows tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it seems like we're up Thursday, retail Thursday.

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Speaker 1: She will give her credit for it right now. Joining

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Speaker 1: us on a phrase, it is simple how to invest,

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Speaker 1: and the archway to invest is to not lose money.

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Speaker 1: David Rubinstein is with as co founder of Carlisle Group

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Speaker 1: and author of the new book How to Invest. David's

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Speaker 1: just a great concept, and to me, what's important here

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Speaker 1: is the team you have at Carlyle, which can talk

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Speaker 1: about log normal distributions and tail risk and all the

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Speaker 1: other mathematical bladder. The foundational issue is the how to invest.

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Speaker 1: How to make money over long term is to not

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Speaker 1: lose money. How do you avoid losses in investment? Well,

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Speaker 1: if you're really investing, you're probably not going to be

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Speaker 1: avoid losses at some point. No great investor has been

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Speaker 1: able to avoid losses at some point. Even Warren Buffett

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Speaker 1: has lost money on investments. So you have to be

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Speaker 1: in the game and recognize if you're reasonably good at it,

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Speaker 1: you'll probably make more money than you'll lose money. And

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Speaker 1: what I try to do is to interview some of

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Speaker 1: the best investors in the United States and talk to

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Speaker 1: them about what their secrets were, how they got where

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Speaker 1: they are, and what they would recommend to other people

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Speaker 1: who want to be investors. Part of this is a

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Speaker 1: definition of short term. How short is short term for

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Speaker 1: the different chapters of your book. Well, of course, some

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Speaker 1: investors are trading daily, but for people that do what

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Speaker 1: I have typically done, which is private equity, it's a

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Speaker 1: longer term investment hold, which is typically three to five years. Clearly,

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Speaker 1: people like Warren buffet or holding almost forever. But I'd

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Speaker 1: say generally investors who put money to work are trying

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Speaker 1: to get some kind of good rate of return somewhere

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Speaker 1: between the three and five year period of time, typically

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Speaker 1: in the private equity or venture capital growth capital areas. David,

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Speaker 1: were you surprised what any of these aminary is said

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Speaker 1: in terms of their investing secrets of their mantras. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I was surprised. I've known many

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Speaker 1: of them over the years, and so I've I've really

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Speaker 1: spent some time with them before. But generally, what they

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Speaker 1: would say is that you have to take some risks,

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Speaker 1: and the great investors are basically going against conventional wisdom.

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Speaker 1: The conventional wisdom will say to sell, and the great

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Speaker 1: investors will say now is the time to buy, or

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Speaker 1: vice versa. And the most common mistake that they all

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Speaker 1: felt people make is that when the markets go up,

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Speaker 1: people tend to get in. When markets go down, they

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Speaker 1: tend to sell, and the great investors tend to do

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Speaker 1: the opposite. When markets are in trouble as they are now,

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Speaker 1: you could argue, now it's probably a pretty good time

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Speaker 1: to invest. You won't see the results of your investment

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Speaker 1: for two or three years if it's successful, But generally

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Speaker 1: people are now really skilled investors I think are buying

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Speaker 1: things now at the bottom of the market, are close

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of the market. Hell has investing wisdom changed,

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Speaker 1: or investing beliefs, as we've seen a complete change in

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Speaker 1: the technology underpinning a lot of it, with a lot

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Speaker 1: of it done more quickly, democratizing in many ways, who

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Speaker 1: can get in, how people can trade. What used to

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Speaker 1: be investing was really something available only to the top

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Speaker 1: wealthiest people in the in the country, or in the world.

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Speaker 1: Now everybody can participate and invest alongside some very good

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Speaker 1: investors by going into their funds. One of the big

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Speaker 1: changes is that the rate of return was always the

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Speaker 1: most important thing. The highest rate of return you could

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Speaker 1: legally get was what people wanted. Now people do worry

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Speaker 1: about things like E s G. That was not a

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Speaker 1: factor ten or twenty years ago. Now while E s

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Speaker 1: G has been on there some attack lately, there's no

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Speaker 1: doubt that E s G factors are important for a

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Speaker 1: lot of investors, and for institutional investors as well. David

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Speaker 1: is the next hour we will witness a Queen of

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Speaker 1: the United Kingdom with her coffin moved through the door

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Speaker 1: of Westminster Hall. It is an ancient, ancient edifice. It

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Speaker 1: is as ancient as what you brought to America, which

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Speaker 1: is a copy of the Magna Carta. Please explain your

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Speaker 1: view is the one that helped the National Archives with

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Speaker 1: our heritage. Please explain the reach from the time of

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Speaker 1: the Magna Carta and Westminster Hall to Queen Elizabeth Well.

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Speaker 1: The Magna Carta was designed and there are versions of

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Speaker 1: it from twelve fifteen the twelve ninety seven to give

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Speaker 1: people and generally the wealthier people at the time, not

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Speaker 1: really the average person that had later evolved, the benefits

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Speaker 1: of things like trial with juries. Uh no taxation without representation,

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Speaker 1: right to habeas corpus, things like that. Interestingly, the Magna

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Speaker 1: carta became less significant in England for a while and

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Speaker 1: became more significant United States because when our charters were

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Speaker 1: drafted for the colonies, that thirteen colonies, they typically had

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Speaker 1: the rights of the Magna carta or has put into

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Speaker 1: those uh those charters. So in many ways, our revolutionary war,

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Speaker 1: which was against England, ironically was really based on the

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Speaker 1: premise that we had the rights of the Magna carta.

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Speaker 1: Many people in this country believe that they had those

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Speaker 1: rights because they were guaranteed in the colonial charters, and

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Speaker 1: for some period of time the Magna carta became much

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Speaker 1: more significant in this country really than it did in England. David,

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Speaker 1: we we see a United Kingdom with the changing of

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister and clearly from their chancel the exchequer a

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Speaker 1: growth at any cost strategy. Is there any history where

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Speaker 1: growth at any cost works well? Growth and any cost

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Speaker 1: will just produce inflation typically, So I think you have

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Speaker 1: to be careful about any type of growth. I think

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Speaker 1: the English economy, of the British economy has some real

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Speaker 1: challenges now more than even the U. S. Economy. I

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Speaker 1: think Brexit has had some uh impact on Britain that

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Speaker 1: probably is not as favorable as people would like. I

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Speaker 1: think also the global the economy is not as strong

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Speaker 1: as Britain would like or the europe would like, and

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Speaker 1: I think the European economy is behind the US right now.

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Speaker 1: Inflation is probably as high as in the US, but

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Speaker 1: the growth is much less likely to go forward than

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Speaker 1: it is in the US. So I think the British

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Speaker 1: economy has some real challenge just now forecasting a recession

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Speaker 1: here in the UK. The FET's not got around to

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Speaker 1: doing that in the United States just yet. David, fantastic

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Speaker 1: to catch up with you sat as a wist, David Rubinstein.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join

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Speaker 1: us live weekdays from seven to ten a m Eastern.

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Speaker 1: I'm Bloomberg Radio and on Bloomberg Television each day from

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Speaker 1: six to nine am for insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,

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Speaker 1: and international relations. And subscribe to the Surveillance podcast on

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Speaker 1: Apple podcast, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot com, and of course on

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Speaker 1: the terminal. I'm Tom Keene and this is Bloomberg