1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Long Shot is a production of McClatchy Studios and I 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Heeart Radio. Previously on Payback. This is the biggest game 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: in the lives of these US players. We wanted better hotel, 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 1: better travel. We were asking for the chance to be 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: the best in the world, and they said no. Everyone 6 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: tried to put blocks up along the way. You know, 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: you guys should play little stadiums. You guys can't fill 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: a big stadium where like, yes we can. It got 9 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: really heated to the point of mia and myself basically 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: telling the federation they could go f themselves. It is, 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, our job. We felt to create something better 12 00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: for another group of players, to keep this movement going. No, 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: it's hot, Glenn mill Arizona scorching hot. You step outside, 14 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: I mean your fingers just hits the sun and it 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: just singes your finger. And we were those kids that 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 1: would drink out of the water hose all the time. 17 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: How did we not die of heat stroke? How do 18 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: we not die of dehydration? For Jessica McDonald, childhood and 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: Glendale looked much like it might for any upbeat kid 20 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: with a passion for sports. Basketball here track there even 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: a little football thrown in I signed up for everything, 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: everything possible, like you name it. I played it for 23 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: people who didn't know just well. It was a natural 24 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: athlete at home on a playing field. At least that's 25 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: how it looked. The only way that I was allowed 26 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: of the house growing up was stoop sport, and I 27 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: took advantage of that. Oh, I can go to the 28 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: park to go play football with my cousins, okay by, 29 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: But I wasn't allowed to go to friends houses. I 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: wasn't not doing anything it is. It's just a very 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: strict household. I used sport as this coping mechanism because 32 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: I hated being home behind closed doors. Reality was far darker. 33 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: They're Jesse's childhood was full of shattered dreams, a childhood 34 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: she has never fully talked about until now. Sports really 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: saved my life, literally saved me in every shape, way 36 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: or form that anybody can ever imagine. The beginning, I 37 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: was given the rare opportunity to see for myself from 38 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: the Charlotte Observer, Raleigh News, An Observer, McClatchy Studios, and 39 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This is payback. I'm Alexandrea, and this 40 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: is part two a coping mechanism. We need to wear 41 00:02:55,440 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 1: the masks. Photos on the walls. Yeah, your house is 42 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: like a museum of it is my sister's me a 43 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: calendar with all the birthdays on it. You have to 44 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 1: so you can keep track of Yeah, I know that's 45 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: like actually will probably be there helpful for us to 46 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: get a picture of. Kevin McDonald is showing us around 47 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: his mother's house in Glendale. So this is the family tree, 48 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: so to speak. It's the spring and producer caught to 49 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: Stevens and I came here to get a sense of 50 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: the life Jessica McDonald left behind, Sybil Ring, Dammy, Stephanie, Laurie, Tracy, 51 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: my meet little Abbey. Kevin McDonald is Jessica's uncle on 52 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: her mom's side, one of eight maternal aunts and uncle's 53 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: jess has Is this you, Kevin, Yeah, that was my 54 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: senior pictures for high school. Yeah. Kevin is soft spoken. 55 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: He's fairly tall, sports long, thin, dreadlow loo similar to 56 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: Jessica's own taste, and has an athletic build that supports 57 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: his own history in sports and the family's legacy of 58 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: raising professional athletes. Spurs five. Tracy McDonald was probably eighth 59 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: grade right there was really young but oh my gosh, 60 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: and teams have won all of those. Jessica's mom, throughout 61 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: high school would get letters of intent from all of 62 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: these schools, and my mom always kept them. It's a 63 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: photo album about that, thick front and back pages, each 64 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: one with four or five letters in him. Jesse's mom, 65 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: Tracy McDonald, did not respond to our repeated attempts to 66 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: interview her for this podcast. I always was in Tracy 67 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: shadows for sports, but she was just so phenomenal. I mean, 68 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: she was just gifted. This is tracy sister, Lorie McDonald, 69 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: who was one year older. We didn't have all the 70 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: training and the clubs, and we didn't have that stuff. 71 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: It was just raw natural taling. Oh yeah. She always 72 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: bragged about her accolades and everything that she did in 73 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: high school. Here's how Jas remembers it. You know, I've 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: heard all the stories from all my aunt's, uncles, my mom, 75 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: even of course my grandmother. How just incredible of an 76 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: athlete she was at around five ft nine, Tracy will 77 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: cast more than just a physical shadow over this story. 78 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: There's McDonald shot. She's got like a dozen trophies surrounding her. 79 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,480 Speaker 1: Medals and ribbons. Tracy started playing varsity sports and depression. 80 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: She was then only a woman on a voice soccer team. 81 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: She threw the football farther than our varsity quarterback. All Star. 82 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: In basketball, Tracy has the career high points McDonald. She 83 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: still holds that record. He has not been broken. It 84 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: was her junior year when she broke it, so she 85 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: still had a whole another year to go. She was 86 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be the first woman in the NBA. Schools 87 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: across the country wanted her. It looks like some sort 88 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: of sportsmanship award. Tracy was just a fucking piece. She 89 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 1: was about to turn forty when the w NBA started 90 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: getting big, and I go just go walk on to 91 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: the Mercury and just going to the gym and shoot 92 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: around with them. They're gonna ask you to try out. 93 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, she's still one of the best athletes 94 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: in Arizona, that girl. But Kevin also remembers Tracy's rebelliousness. 95 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: He told me Tracy was always close with their father, 96 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: just as grandfather, who was diagnosed with cancer while Tracy 97 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: was in high school. That's when Tracy began acting out. 98 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: My mom was a single mother, so my mom started 99 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: working the graveyard ship she worked at night. Lori McDonald 100 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,200 Speaker 1: she told me that she and Tracy grew up incredibly 101 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 1: close and played on the same sports teams, So there 102 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: was no adult at our house at night, and every 103 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: guy within a five mile radius knew there was five 104 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: girls at that house unattended that were over the age 105 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: of fourteen. You see where this is going. At the 106 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: age of fifteen, Tracy became pregnant. In she had Brandon, 107 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: Jesse's older half brother. Two years later, still in high school, 108 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: Tracy had Jessica Marie McDonald on February. Tracy's promising athletic 109 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: career crumbled and her future in sports was replaced by 110 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: teen motherhood. At the end of the day, she taught 111 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: me sacrifice jess again. She had a kid, and she 112 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: thought that was it for her. She sacrificed not not 113 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: going to college, not taking her ticket to the next 114 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: level of sports in her education. For me, essentially, I 115 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: was able to find some of those old news clippings 116 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: which waxed on Tracy's athletic ability. A forward on Cactus 117 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: High Schools basketball team, Tracy averaged almost thirty points a 118 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: game during a summer tournament before her junior year. And 119 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: scored thirty nine points in a single game, which officials 120 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: thought was a tournament record. Her whole time in high 121 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: school to those years she was pregnant. Jesse's aunt Lorie 122 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: McDonald again, I was the manager for the boys soccer 123 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: team when Tracy was on the boys soccer team. She 124 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: was full blown, seven eight months pregnant, running up and 125 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: down that soccer field. I'm not surprised that Jessica is 126 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: who she is because that's basically her mother had her. 127 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: Mother fulfilled her potential. Watching my big sister, it was 128 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: one of the greatest times in my life to watch, 129 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: you know, and then to see Jessica do it all 130 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 1: over again. Kevin McDonald again, and that's actually Brandon and 131 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: Jessica when they were babies. Oh my gosh, so cute. 132 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: She's gonna be song bearss. We'll be right back. So 133 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: right now, we're driving to Circle K Park in southern Phoenix. 134 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: We're about to go meet Jessica's father. Vince Vincent Myers 135 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: is a complex man with the complex past. I haven't 136 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: met him. I've been able to find any pictures or anything. 137 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: So he's agreed to meet us and sent a location. 138 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: I mean I'm hoping that he shows up at this 139 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: point and we can hopefully get enough time with him 140 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: to ask him all of the questions I have, because 141 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: I've written down about a thousand just dosn't often mentioned 142 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: Vincent interviews, And as far as I can tell, we're 143 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: the first reporters to speak with him about his daughter. 144 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: I it be some nuts and run. He's so time, 145 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, but it's pretty safe area now. Instead, show 146 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: up exactly as he said he would. They're in the park. 147 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: The afternoon sun carved shadows across the nearby South Mountain preserve, 148 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: a warm breeze blew through the palm trees, and children 149 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: raised around a big playground. You'll hear some of those 150 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: sounds in our conversation with him. He's pretty cool, not 151 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: to hear, no good a shot, getting quiet a whole 152 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: lot from when I was younger. In those younger days, 153 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: areas near here in South Phoenix were mostly known for 154 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: gang activity. It wasn't the sort of place Vince envisioned 155 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: ending up because in those younger days he was a 156 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: gifted athlete as well, and there's clearly something of a 157 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: rivalry over which side of the family gave Jess her 158 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: world class jeans at oh that comes the family, football, basketball, baseball, track, 159 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: anything they were dealing with sports played. I've heard stories 160 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: of Tracy as well, but it was nothing. I ain't 161 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: gonna bragg and then it was nothing like my my background. 162 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: It runs way down the line in my family. There's 163 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: some pride in that good natured rivalry. But in Vince's case, 164 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: I wonder if there might be something else there too, 165 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:00,120 Speaker 1: That athleticism might be one of the few things he 166 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: feels he did give his daughter growing up, because he 167 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: also told me he knows how much he didn't give her. 168 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: I fell off into some bad habits, real bad, bad 169 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: enough to keep my keys wait from me, that's baton 170 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: thing I would regret. It's just not spending enough time 171 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: with my keys. When he was younger. This was twenty 172 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 1: six when Jess was born, eight years older than Tracy. 173 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: He told us that at the time he made money 174 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: dealing drugs. Jess told us that in the years after 175 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: everyone paid the price. My dad he was a drug 176 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: dealer growing up. He's a drug dealer before I was born, 177 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: and my father was in and out of the penitentiary 178 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: a lot throughout my life, so I don't really know him. 179 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: I had pictures of him. I could probably count on 180 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: one hand how many times I saw him from Dale 181 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: was born until I was about seventeen. According to arrest records, 182 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: a little over a year after Jess was born, this 183 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: was arrested there in mary Copa County and charged with 184 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: an array of narcotics violations. I did like five years. 185 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: I ain't been bad, but you know, when I was 186 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: out finding out missing my kids. You know, she might 187 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: not remember, but ucome to at a point that I 188 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: went to prison, and when I got out of prison, 189 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: we spent a little time. She knew who I was, 190 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: you know what, And I like it should have been. 191 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: Who knows that Fence and Tracy had a future together anyway, 192 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: But incarceration would answer that question for them and for Jess. 193 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,719 Speaker 1: There were no father daughter bedtime stories with Fince, no 194 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: orange wedges on the sideline, not even weekend visits to 195 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: the state prison outside Phoenix. Like back, I'm like, what 196 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: are you doing with my mother? If you were, if 197 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: that was your job. Anyway, there were a lot of 198 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: times where I would see all my teammates, all their 199 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 1: parents are there on the sideline at games, whereas I 200 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: didn't have a single soul at times. Jess was six 201 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,599 Speaker 1: when her father was given parole, but then says he 202 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: didn't exactly try to make up for lost time. We 203 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: still has been too much time because when I got 204 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: out of working all the time just to keep me occupied, 205 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: and I go back into the lifestyle and stuff. I 206 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,080 Speaker 1: should have been in her life a little bit more. 207 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: As she was growing up, and with Jesse's father largely 208 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: out of the picture, Tracy shouldered the responsibilities of single 209 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: motherhood as new forces would begin to disrupt any semblance 210 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 1: of peace that might have existed at the time. Needless 211 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: to say, in the McDonald's house, all hell was breaking loose. 212 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 1: We're heading to at the house that Jessica grew up 213 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: in for part of the time when she was younger. Kevin, 214 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,960 Speaker 1: Jessica's uncle, sent me this dress. It's been here since 215 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: she's been here. In the areas, probably she whached a lot. 216 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: Even from our conversations with Vince, it's I mean, he 217 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: was sketched out to meet in that park kind of 218 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: and was making sure that we were safe and everything. 219 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: But it didn't seem like an area to be worried about, 220 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: and so I wonder how this area kind of compares. 221 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: Kevin McDonald was always close with his older sister Tracy, 222 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: and he's only twelve years older than Jess. They all 223 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: lived together in the same house for the early years 224 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: of Jesse's life than this is it. Sometimes we even 225 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: shared rooms. You know, her and her brother were there, 226 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: I was there. It's it was like having a little 227 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 1: sister at home. At the time he was a teenager, 228 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: Kevin was a doting uncle. It turned sixteen, I got 229 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: my license. My new job was being a chauffeur for them, 230 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: go pick them up from practice, dropped them off at practice, 231 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, so I was always running back and forth. 232 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: That was a big part of my childhood in high 233 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 1: school was those kids. That closeness also meant Kevin saw 234 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: parts of Jesse's home life the few others did. During 235 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: my year of reporting for this podcast, I reached out 236 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: to Tracy multiple times, but had little success. We did 237 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: briefly speak by phone one time, and even scheduled this 238 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: trip to Phoenix because she said she would meet with us. 239 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: Sorry box is full, but that was the last I've 240 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: heard from her. Jess and her half brother Brandon, have 241 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: different fathers. He would continue to live with their maternal grandmother, 242 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: but Jess and Tracy would eventually move into a new 243 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: place with Tracy's new boyfriend. So it was this part 244 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: of the house I think so yeah. According to Jess 245 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: and corroborated by other family members I spoke with, the 246 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: environment in this home was horrific. I watched my mom 247 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: get abused a lot. She got beat all the time 248 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: for the first fifteen years of my life. I'm like, 249 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: every other day, I just said, there, watcher, just get 250 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: beat by her boyfriend, and then no, she would reciprocate 251 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: that on me. We were unable to reach Tracy's boyfriend 252 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: at the time to get his side of what happened, 253 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: so we won't be naming him in this podcast. I 254 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: was scared. I was scared for my life, and you're 255 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: actually the first person I've ever told that too. It's 256 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: my mom. If I tell someone and she finds out, 257 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: I'm scared that something horrible is going to happen to 258 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 1: me from her. That's just how it always was, you know. 259 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: So I was always just as quiet kid. I was 260 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: always in the shell, never told anybody what was happening 261 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: at home, never told anybody. I was a scared little girl. 262 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: Jess says that the boyfriend never hit her and that 263 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: much of the abuse she received from her mother was verpal. 264 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: But as Tracy allegedly battled in her demons and endured 265 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: relentless physical abuse, the question of when she might suddenly 266 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: unleash that fury on her daughter onto jess throughout her 267 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: childhood were Jessica was young. I do remember one particular 268 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: time to get album mark on her base and we 269 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: did say something crazy. But absolutely I can only imagine, 270 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: you know, the physical and the mental and the verbal abuse. 271 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: Laurie McDonald again, I would not discount anything that Jessica 272 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: said about the physical abuse at all. I mean, it's 273 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: like a one in a million shot that Brandon and 274 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: Jessica didn't end up selling drugs on drugs in jail 275 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: on the street, just didn't really have a mom war 276 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,959 Speaker 1: dad once just his father, Vince had made a more 277 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: stable life for himself, he became a slightly larger presence 278 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: in his daughter's life. Has told me that he never 279 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: understood the true conditions for jess at home until years later. 280 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: It was some instance, you know, when I used to 281 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: pick up sometimes she would be sad. I figured she 282 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,959 Speaker 1: You know, she would tell me whenever was you know, 283 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: she feels like talking about it. But when she really 284 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: started really talking about it, I wanted to say, why 285 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: you didn't you know what she young and you know 286 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: she play was scared, frightened of a mama. You know what. 287 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 1: I never did push the issue because a figure she 288 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: had tailed me when she really wanted to too. My 289 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: biggest takeaway from the neighborhood where jess grew up is 290 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 1: that it's in the vicinity of a few big parks 291 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: just down the road from Jessica's old house. This looks 292 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: like it's a big field. There are basketball courts, a 293 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: big open field, and playground equipment. If you're a kid, 294 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,120 Speaker 1: this is where you'd probably hang out. And jess says 295 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 1: that if her mother saw the value in anything at all, 296 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 1: it was sports. The only way that I was allowed 297 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 1: of the house growing up was do sport, and I 298 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: took advantage of that. Oh, I can go to the 299 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: park to go play football with my cousins, okay by, 300 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: but I wasn't allowed to go to friend's houses. I 301 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: wasn't not to do anything. It's it's just a very 302 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: strict household. I was allowed to just go play sport. 303 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: For Jess that outdoor space wasn't just a patch of grass, 304 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: it was a lifeline. People were like, if you knew 305 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: that you couldn't be a pro athlete, like, what would 306 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: it be on my god, I have no idea. I 307 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: might even be in prison for all I know. And 308 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: so thank God for spourth and God I had that 309 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: ability to play. That was my escape, that was all 310 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: I had, and so naturally jess played them all. We'll 311 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: be back after this. Jess would be hard pressed to 312 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,360 Speaker 1: remember a time she wasn't an athlete like her mother 313 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: before her sport was where she found her idols. Jessica 314 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: had a group of six or seven cousins that were 315 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: all boys, all of my sisters. They all had kids 316 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: about the same time. During Jesse's childhood, sports were the 317 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:54,760 Speaker 1: only thing in her life. Basketball, track, football, soccer, anything 318 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: that got her out of the house. When they were 319 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: all younger, they would go and hang out and play 320 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: at the parts or soccer or football or field hockey 321 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: or whatever we're doing. But they were always together. Jess's 322 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: uncle Kevin told us that even in a family of 323 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: star athletes, Jessica Speed always stood out. It was almost 324 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: this need to run faster and go further than just 325 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: about anyone around. One of my fondest memories of Jessica 326 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: and all of her cousins was when they very first 327 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: started running track. Kevin remembers the moment he first saw 328 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: it and that he was one of the few people 329 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: in the stands who understood what jess may have felt 330 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: like she was running from. Jessica was just this really 331 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 1: little girl, and then her cousins were all super athletics, 332 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: so whatever they did, people were always cheering for him. 333 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: So Jessica was like, I want people to cheer for me, 334 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: and they were like, where you're running next, we're gonna 335 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: cheer really loud for you, you know. And she gets 336 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: out there and they made all the little kids her age, 337 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: boys and girls line up. There was probably twenty thirty 338 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: of them, and she looked like she was scared out 339 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: there with her big old tank top on it, like 340 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: it didn't fit. And they fired the gun and they 341 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: were just going to run one lap around the track, 342 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: and all the kids took off and Jessica just left 343 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,239 Speaker 1: the pack. And when she came up that straightaway, you know, 344 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: she's just running as hard as she came, and she 345 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: looked up and saw all of us just jumping up 346 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: and down yelling for her. She had the biggest smile 347 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: on her face and she started slowing down. We were like, 348 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: no kee, Randy. So she finished the race and then 349 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: immediately ran off the track, ran up the thing, and 350 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: then just go did you guys see me kick everybody's button? 351 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: From that moment, I was like, nobody will ever be 352 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: able to stop this girl and anything she does athletically. 353 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, she beat boys and girls too much. Just 354 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: His mother played basketball and her father football, but when 355 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: it came to soccer, the biggest influence on Jess was 356 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,479 Speaker 1: her half brother Brandon. He also started playing soccer as 357 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: a child and hasn't stopped yet. In two thou eight, 358 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: Brendan McDonald made it to Major League Soccer and a 359 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: girl from thirty five yards out for the Galaxy. Brendan 360 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: McDonald playing on the same l A Galaxy team as 361 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: David Beckham and Landon Donovan. Today he plays in Southeast Asia. 362 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: We were unable to connect with Brandon for this podcast, 363 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: but he and Jesseph remained close despite the physical distance 364 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: between their careers. My brother started soccer when he was five, 365 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: and that was all he played his whole life. That 366 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: was just like his sport. He was just good at 367 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: and I was there to just witness it all. Jess again. 368 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: Over the past year, I interviewed her for nearly ten 369 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: hours in her home, at soccer stadiums and on video calls, 370 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 1: and then I finally came to an off season and 371 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 1: my grandmother was kind of like, Okay, what's the next 372 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: sport that you want to play? And I was like, 373 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 1: you know, I let's try soccer. She's like, yeah, you 374 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: should blaze soccer like your brother Brandon. I'm like, okay, 375 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: you know, at the time, I didn't know my left 376 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: foot from right foot. To be honest, I knew the 377 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: game at that age. A basic knowledge of the game 378 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: and I drive to outrun everyone else was all Jess needed. Oh, 379 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: very shocked as she had developed on our first seen 380 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: of place soccer Jess's father then I think I've first 381 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 1: seen her play when she was seven night and I 382 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,719 Speaker 1: wasn't a soccer fan until she started playing. Until I 383 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: started going to gang, I was like, oh man, this 384 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. She was very athletic, very she could 385 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: play both of anything. And do most anything. At the 386 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,680 Speaker 1: time she was in middle school, jess was about five 387 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: ft five. Those who saw her play described her as 388 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: relentless on the field, we're on the court or any place. 389 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: She could compete in any sport. When Jessica started going 390 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: to that grade school that I went to, I have 391 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: two friends that I went to high school with and 392 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: they were like, we knew your niece before we knew you. 393 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: Another memory from Jesse's uncle, Kevin, and I was like, 394 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: what are you talking about. They were like, we went 395 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: to this grade school to help referee these games for 396 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: all these kids. So I had a tournament and there 397 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: was a girl playing on the boys team. So she 398 00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: was in the seventh grade playing for the eighth grade 399 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: boy and was out there killing them. She was out 400 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: there outrebounding, hustling, chasing people down, blocking shots. He was like, 401 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,720 Speaker 1: it was amazing. I was just tickled to death that 402 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 1: there's a little girl running guys off the court, you know. 403 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: I was just like, yeah, they won the championships. One afternoon, 404 00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: when jess was about twelve, she tagged along with Brandon 405 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,919 Speaker 1: to one of his soccer practices. He was playing at 406 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: the time for the Sereno Soccer Club, a powerhouse travel 407 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: team in the Phoenix area. Over the past four decades, 408 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: the boys and girls Sereno programs of one hundred and 409 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: fifty Arizona state championships and two national titles. Sereno has 410 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: become a household name and talent pool her top level 411 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: men's and women's college and professional coaches. Some thirty different 412 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: men and women who played for Sereno soccer teams have 413 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: gone on to play professionally. But for preteen Jess, killing 414 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 1: time at her brother's Sereno practices was mostly just a 415 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: way for her to get out of the house. One day, 416 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: she wandered over to a side field enrolled the ball. 417 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:02,400 Speaker 1: The was about twenty yards out from the goal, well 418 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: past the top of the penalty box. Little did Jess 419 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: realize how much was about to change in her life. 420 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: She happened to be at soccer field one day and 421 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: she was just smashing balls into the net Less. Armstrong 422 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: was the director for the Serena Soccer Club at the time. 423 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: She looked very tall, compan up to the other kids, 424 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: and so somehow somebody communicated with her and asta if 425 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: she wanted to play. Suddenly, soccer was more than just 426 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: a temporary escape from home. It could be a way 427 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: out entirely. And on part three of Payback, I thought 428 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: my grandmother I wouldn't be where I am today. Thank 429 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: you guys for coming. This is a great day because 430 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,199 Speaker 1: she got a game coming out. You'd have to be 431 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: blamed to not see Jess McDonald. Every single coach in 432 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: the country wanted Jess McDonald, and Lawrence was coming. He 433 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: was recruiting me. This is my dream school. My recollections 434 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: are mostly trying to find her. I'm thinking, oh gosh, 435 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: I know why the grandmother's involved. Guests don't have no 436 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 1: reading this stuff. But we don't choose appear in the 437 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: way we get. I'm Alexandrea. Payback is a production of 438 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: The Charlotte Observer, Raleigh News and Observer, McClatchy Studios, and 439 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. It's produced by Cotta Stevens, Casey Toth, 440 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: Julia Wall, and Davin Cockburn. The executive producer for iHeart 441 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: Radio is Sean ty Tone. For lots more on this 442 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 1: story and to support journalism like this, visit Charlotte Observer 443 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: dot com slash payback or News Observer dot com slash 444 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:34,440 Speaker 1: Payback and for more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit 445 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you 446 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,159 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.