WEBVTT - Ep. 146: Bigfoot 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.080 If you listen to this year podcast, you've heard just 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.800 talk about b h A countless times. Um. I'm a 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:09.520 big supporter of their mission. They do a ton of 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.760 great work, and I know if you're listening, there's a 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:14.880 chance that a lot of your hunting is done on 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.440 public lands. And if public lands are important to you, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.599 you need to join Back Country Hunters and Anglers. They're 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:25.040 working to keep your public lands in public hands and 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.600 protecting access to your favorite hunting spots. Memberships at b 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.720 h A started just twenty five bucks, and if you 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:35.600 act now, you'll get a free public Landowner T shirt 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.640 with your membership. 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This is a mer podcast coming 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.919 at you shirtless, severely, vote bitten and in my case, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:20.239 underwear listening podcast. You can't predict anything presented by on X. 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:24.320 Hunt creators are the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:27.680 Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google play store. 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:36.440 Nor where you stand with on X Okay, we're here 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:41.560 with Laura Krantz. Can I call you a bigfoot expert? 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.000 You don't like that? I'm not, You're not, But I 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:46.680 mean I just wanted to say it. Yeah, you can 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.040 say it, because it's a teaser. We're gonna do something else. 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.080 We're gonna do something else before we talk about that. 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:56.840 So I thought if I could say there's a bigfoot expert, Yeah, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.840 I think would you like to go by it? Because 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:02.799 you're not I know you don't like I'm a journalist. Yeah, 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.359 but right, but you've developed a little bit of expertise 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:10.720 on what bigfoot means. I guess compared to the general population, 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.240 I've developed some expertise compared to the bigfoot experts. I 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:17.520 have a long way to go. Yeah, who was it? It 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.560 It was Jack Hit, you know, the writer Jack Hit. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.520 The name is familiar, but keep going. Um, he wrote 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:28.239 a piece one time talking about how the study of dinosaurs, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:33.600 like dinosaur things, how he's like incredulous of dinosaur research 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:36.839 in general because he's like, how seriously can you take 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.000 a discipline where the people that know the most about 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:42.840 it tend to be twelve tend to be twelve years old? Yeah, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.400 I wouldn't say that about He's a humorist, right, I mean, 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.520 Jack Hit like makes points. You know, he also has 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.240 a very spirited argument about, um, what an irresponsible mother 0:03:53.280 --> 0:03:56.400 saka Joiah was, But he just like he argues, he's 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.520 kind of like insane points. You could also say that 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.839 Moses his mother was a response and I'm sure Jack 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.800 Jackie would probably like that opinion, so he's a humoroust. 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.120 But in one of his pieces he was like, deconstructing 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.760 I don't know why I'm talking about dinosaur study. Oh 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.919 because from my perspective, as someone who's like decidedly not 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:22.080 just a disbeliever, I'm like, I'm anti bigfoot, So you're 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:25.960 a monster. So from my perspective, I would say that 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:29.720 someone with your perspective has more who's taken like a 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.600 sort of trying to take an impartial look. To me, 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.120 that would be more like being a bigfoot expert than 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:42.440 someone who is is die hard like I believe this 0:04:42.520 --> 0:04:45.839 is true. You're all idiots for not realizing. So you're 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:47.920 my kind of bigfoot expert, even though you don't want 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.520 to be one. Reluctant you can call me a reluctant 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.000 big foot. Reluctant bigfoot expert. I'm gonna talk about a 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:54.960 handful of things before we start talking to you, Laura, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:00.680 But chime in, chime in, um, like some feedback. We 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:02.840 got to cover some. I like to cover some feedback, 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.880 especially corrections places where you making mistakes and past episodes 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:07.440 and seven straight. But here's not a correction. But just 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.599 something interesting. So we like, if you listen to the show, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.080 you hear that we often will talk about m If 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:16.640 you listen to show, you'll here we often talk about 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.480 Folsome hunters and Clovis hunters. You know, yeah, that these 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:26.320 are old theater price age ice age hunters. Uh people 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.039 used the thing like like for a long time, the 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.600 oldest stuff we knew about was Clovis. So Clovis would 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:42.240 be thirteen thousand, five hundred uh years ago. Yeah, that's nothing. Um, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:46.520 And when we talk about the Clovis culture is just 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.479 kind of like that that there's this, there's a projectile point. 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:51.719 They made a spear point. This is the bone arrow 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.839 hadn't been invented yet. They made a very peculiar particular 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.520 spear point. And the spear points are so particular that 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.359 the guarded as being diagnostic. So if you were to 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.520 dig down and find a Clovis point, they were so 0:06:07.560 --> 0:06:10.800 particular about how they made them that when you find 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.640 one itself is diagnostic of its age. So it's like 0:06:15.680 --> 0:06:18.960 carbon dating. Yeah, well it's different than that. I mean, 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:20.680 like a carbon date sort of like if you find 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.840 it in a certain layer of archaeology or like oh 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.919 I know exactly where we are, right exactly, Like those 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.840 dudes made their points in a way that no one 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.480 else made them before, and no one else made them after. 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.560 They would have had like a trademark now, yes, and 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.520 in fact yeah, and they would because it's like it's 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:44.080 the most one of the most beautiful projectile points. So 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:49.440 that's like eleven thousand, five hundred BC or BC whatever 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.480 your pickings on that. A little bit of lingo um, 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:53.800 but they just did a they just did a big 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:58.720 excavation near Austin, Texas and found what is it now, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:05.480 the oldest stone tools that they've that have yet been 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:10.040 recovered here in what is now the United States of America. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.280 They found a bunch of stone tools that are fifteen thousand, 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:17.520 five hundred years old, so sets back the clock. What's 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:21.640 interesting about this is that people used to think that 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.360 people used to argue about did the Clovis Hunters arrive 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.840 here as Clovis hunters, because all of a sudden, around 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.880 thirteen thousand, five hundred years ago, you see this, like 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:37.360 these projectile points are all over the country and there's 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.960 not it's hard to find stuff that's much older than that. 0:07:40.080 --> 0:07:41.800 So people used to think that There used to be 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.040 this argument that it was Clovis first, meaning that the 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:49.640 Clovis hunters must have arrived here, that their ancestors, having 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.200 crossed the Bearing land Bridge, they must have very rapidly 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.400 colonized the mid continent and arrived here as a sort 0:07:56.440 --> 0:08:00.240 of fully formed culture. But you're assuming they came across 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.840 the land bridge, which they might not have. No, listen, listen, 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.360 there's no more assumptions any other. There's a lot of 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.800 fun little ideas to get floated around. There's this fun 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.920 little idea called the Salutryan connection, that it was in 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.920 fact Western Europeans had somehow come over because they were 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:24.119 making projectile points thirty forty thousand years ago that looked 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.720 similar to Clovis points. This idea that Western Europeans came 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:31.680 over taught the Native Americans how to make cool looking 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.600 arrowheads died out. Yeah, just like they came over and 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.360 showed the Meso Americans how to build pyramids. That that 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.160 it couldn't have been formed here. Um, And there are 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:49.480 ideas that pop that Polynesians may have that a Polynesian 0:08:49.520 --> 0:08:54.480 type people are an early progenitor of Polynesians might have 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.880 somehow landed in South America. But if you look linguistically 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:09.920 janetteally technology like technology. The scholarly consensus remains that the 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:16.640 first Americans came by way of Eurasia and arrived here 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:22.040 by coming across. Bring you well, there's one of the Yeah, 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:23.840 I was gonna say. They may have followed the coastlines. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.520 They may not have walks, but it may not have 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:27.240 been the full land bridge at that point. And they 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.720 may have gone up the northern coasts in the eastern 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:32.679 coast of Russia and then come across and trying to 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:34.520 keep land in sight, which is what you would do 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:37.040 if you were Okay, I'm comfortable with that. I thought 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.000 you were gonna you're an argument of the aliens. Aliens 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.400 drop that. I'm sure there are you know what, there 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.080 are some people who think that there was an alien influence. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.360 Do you want to talk about them? But I spent 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:50.800 a lot, Yeah, I spent a fair bit of time, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.280 uh in this world and read about all of the 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.760 crazy theories, and I think, like I said, the scholarly 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:01.360 consensus still the American the first America Arikans arrived by 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:08.360 way that they were Siberians and arrived here um and 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:10.360 so there used to be this idea that the Clovis 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.640 showed up like a fully formed culture. But then we 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.160 have these these older dates to keep popping up, and 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.480 so now there's an idea that there were there were 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.960 pre Clovis people's here. So now we have a date 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.880 like a like a date that has scholarly consensus, like 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.160 all the experts agree this is legitimate date of fifteen thousand, 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:34.240 five hundred years old. And what are the chances that 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.240 you found the first place that anyone ever camped in 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.560 North America and it happens to be down in Austin, Texas, 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.199 Meaning there's a lot of stuff we're missing. Yeah, there's 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:47.120 a lot of stuff from there's many many miles between Austin, 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:52.040 Texas in Barringia that have campsites that no one's found, 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.960 these fifteen thousand, five hundred year old projectile points. We're 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:02.240 not Clovis. So now the the fashionable idea is the 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.560 cloth the Clovis culture, which were spreading all around the country, 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:07.760 and they hunted, they were they were big game hunters 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:12.320 and hunting megaphon and certainly ate all kinds of seeds 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.160 and vegetable matter and seafood that doesn't store well in 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:19.200 the archaeological record, but the Clovis was a distinct North 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.520 American creation. People showed up here and developed into the 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.840 Clovis culture, and the Clovis culture was sort of this 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.720 like unified culture that was widespread. Um, and this puts 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:32.760 another nail into the coffin of the Clovis first idea. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.000 I'm gonna hit a cup more of these, you okay, yeah, 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:37.600 I should have boned up a little bit more, though 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.199 I didn't realize we were going here. We had a conversation. 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:42.920 We had a conversation about squirrel tales, and we were 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.280 talking about when this was like two episodes ago, right now, 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:51.960 when one hunting squirrels that a squirrels tail often betrays 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:56.000 the squirrel up in the tree. Like you know, there's 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.240 a squirrel in the tree somewhere, and you're looking for him, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.600 looking for him, looking for him, and when you can't 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.040 find him, and you got your binoculars and you find him, 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:09.000 usually quite often you can't fool with that. It's the 0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:13.760 tail flicking now, just catching the sunlight. Just like he'll 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.760 plast his body, he'll like plaster his body against the 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:19.960 trunk or a limb, but his tail gives him away 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.000 because it's blowing in the breeze, or it just catches 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.640 the light and it gives like a halo effect. And 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:28.480 so we're talking about what a liability of squirrel's tail is. 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.560 And a couple of people took offense to this, and 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.640 one guy wrote in about how you need to watch 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.160 how it how squirrel works his tail when he's around 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:42.160 a predator. What he's doing is creating he's creating a 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.280 false target. He says, watch a squirrel run out on 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.480 the road in front of your car when he's real 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.000 nervous the car is coming. He's got his tail up 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.080 and he's working. And when a squirrel gets nervous about 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.600 it a predator being nearby, he'll have his tail up working. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:59.800 And when he's running, he's got his tail up, and 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.400 he thinks that predators that he's luring the predator to 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.160 something that's non vital, like those extra eyes that are 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:11.199 on the back of butterflies, or and he says, when 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:14.280 you're up bow hunting watching squirrels, notice how many squirrels 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.680 are missing a chunk of their tail. And he thinks 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.520 that when something's on it, it's drawing the attention to it. 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.120 And it will take the blow from a hawk or 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:26.160 a fox grabs the tail and misses the main body. 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.280 You think the hawk or the fox would have figured 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.160 this one out by now. I mean there's been several 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.960 thousand years of being able to like, but it probably 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.800 works with like neophytes, like the ones that haven't done 0:13:35.800 --> 0:13:39.280 it yet. And Ermine does that too, right with the 0:13:39.320 --> 0:13:42.320 black tip on his tail in the winter, could be 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.600 seems like a nose, but it's not. Yeah, the trouble 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.600 of physiology, you never know the real answer. If there is, 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:52.040 there's there's no real answer. Could just be pretty, Yeah, 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:54.959 it could be pretty. Could be sexual, like a sexual 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:57.880 selection thing. Like there's all kinds of things that animals 0:13:57.880 --> 0:13:59.280 have that we're look like, why does he have that? 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:05.000 It's like only because it's a only because it's a 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:08.960 gesture or symbol to other creatures. But it's useful. Yeah, 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.400 but look how vulnerable. Look at a gobbler gobbling that 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.800 does not make him a wild turkey out gobbling in 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:21.240 the woods, does not make him bigger, faster. It's a 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.359 it's a real vulnerability that gets you killed. But sexually 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.240 it's so important, so you can't be like, um, what 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:33.560 is the advantage of gobbling in terms of fitness. You know, 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.120 it's just it like it's a necessary evil. He has 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:38.160 to do it to breed. But it actually doesn't like 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:43.360 benefit the individual. It only benefits the individual's ability to 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:49.080 spread his lineage. I was starting the sign these researchers 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.240 one time, and they had a bunch of bed a 0:14:51.280 --> 0:14:55.240 bunch of gobblers that they had trackers on, and the 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.760 gobblers a great all winner spring came. They started goblin 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:06.120 all five or dead bobcats, bobcats. And when you're calling turkeys, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.760 you're calling all kinds of stuff. Another guy wrote in 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:10.880 about the squirrel thing, and this is his thing on it. 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.480 He says, he was recently sitting up in his tree 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:19.280 stand and it was forty degrees twenty five gusts from 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.160 the southeast. I observed a squirrel sitting on a branch 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.240 facing down wind on the leeward side of a tree, 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.240 so he's using the tree for a wind buffer and 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.120 facing away from the wind. He was sitting upright and 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.280 had its tail up and over itself like a hood. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.720 Then he said he's had the squirrel sat there for 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:44.920 twenty minutes unmoving. The sun broke from the clouds and 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:46.560 started hitting the side of the tree. He then went 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.520 around to the sunny side of the tree and pasted 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.560 himself flat out in the sun on the sunny side 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:56.320 of the tree. He sat there for ten minutes and 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:00.240 then went about his day eating. So his feeling is 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.560 that they also are using their tail for that. A 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:05.800 guy was listening to a real old podcast. This is 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.880 moving on from squirrels. Well, I'd like to just put 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.480 a concluding thought on the squirrel It's like, those are 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.960 both great points, but it doesn't change the fact that 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:19.320 it's a real dutchment. It's real liability. It's a liability, yes, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.480 but they were saying that, I guess their perspective on 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.160 it is Yes, it's a liability with dudes looking for 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.320 you with twenty two and binoculars. However, people haven't been 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.960 looking for him with twenty two and binoculars long enough 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:39.160 to drive any particular evolutionary trait. Okay, Well, and how 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.360 much squirrel hunting is there? I mean, in the percentage 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.600 of the population looking at squirrels, how many people are 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.760 actually going after them. I would love to know what 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:51.080 percent of the nation's squirrels, Even if you remove urban squirrels. 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.040 So what percent of the nation's squirrels that are unhuntable 0:16:54.160 --> 0:17:00.560 land are subjected to some amount of hunting? My huntable 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.000 land subjected to some amountain So you're not college considering 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.199 my backyard and the sling shot. I'm saying, even if, like, 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:08.560 even if you were going to run out, even if 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:11.320 you're gonna like exclude so just like, what percentage of 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.080 like huntable squirrels are hunted? I'd be shocked to hear 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:17.880 that it's I'd be shocked to hear that it's more 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.000 than just a lot of work for not a lot 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.760 of payoff in terms of there's a thriving squirrel hunting 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.280 culture and you can cover a lot of ground hunting squirrels, 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:33.679 so exposed to some degree of hunting, Like, what percent 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.760 of squirrels u huntable land had a squirrel hunter passed 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:40.639 within one yards of them? I don't know. Are we 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.520 cool to move on with it now? Guy was listening 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.399 to a military Guy was listening to an old podcast, 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:49.879 and he said he found it disturbing. Disturbing that I 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.560 would have defined black Jack Pershing's push into Mexico in 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:57.320 pursuit of Poncho Via as a failure. He says, yes, 0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.240 it failed to achieve its primary mission of capturing Poncho Via, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:03.359 but it's said about conditions that weakened his influence and 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.720 depleted his manpower significantly. It also set conditions to force 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:11.880 diplomatic relationships between the US and Mexico. Mexico didn't desire 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:14.280 full out war with the US and started to take 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.359 proactive measures to deter cross border raids and pursue Via 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.240 like so many of today's targeted operations against specific leadership 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.000 of terrorist organizations in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Is 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.640 it clear that I'm quoting right now? Sometimes you don't 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:33.840 get the individual, but operational pressure pressure can neutralize their 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:38.600 influence and capabilities, effectively nullifying them. So I stand corrected 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.199 on Poncho Villa. Now another guy was saying this. He 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:46.359 wrote him to say, he's nine sure that he's called 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.399 in two different bull moose by knocking boots. Now, I 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:51.919 know knocking boots as a euphemism for love making, but 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.280 he's using knocking boots as like banging the mud off 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.560 his boots. Because you think like a bull, make like 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:04.480 a bull moose during the rock goes mhm, mhm. You 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:08.320 do it once. M h yeah, and I could see 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.560 how the thud of a vibraum soul caked with mud. 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:14.960 It's the kind of noise you're getting by the leather 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:20.199 that's attached to it, a little more soprano than like 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:24.119 beating boots together, has more of like a clopping sound. 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:28.280 But here's the thing, but I know people, all people do. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.920 This is something that happens, people calling moose by banging, 0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:34.600 like accidentally calling moose by hitting trees with axes. Because 0:19:34.680 --> 0:19:36.920 when you hear it, it's so it's such a weird 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.320 sound that you can't you're not sure you're hearing it. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:42.240 And here's the weird thing too. I was out with 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.119 my kids and my kids were hearing a bull. They 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.440 didn't know what it was, but m way off and 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.560 I couldn't hear it. And it was only when they 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:52.440 it was only when they kept talking about it then 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.080 I'm like, oh, you're right, they're like, what is that? 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:57.439 I'm like, what is what? It's not high. It's just 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.119 like it's like when you're hearing it, it's like you 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.800 feel it. It's like you're you're aware that you're hearing it, 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.720 but you can't. It's strange. Yeahs strange. So he's saying 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.240 he got it. Has this happen. He's banging his boots 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.159 and the bull shows up. He's hunting in the Yukon. 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.040 And then one showed up twenty minutes later. No one 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.000 believed my theory of why he came in, but sure 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:19.640 enough I tried to get a couple of days later 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:26.720 and another bull strolled in, grunting right next to camp two. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:32.880 More the guy who's listening, um and he has he's 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.040 talking about our idea that that older animals like lose 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.720 their quality, like like palatability. Hunters always think that palatability 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:43.199 is better with younger animals. So someone would get like 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:45.439 a little buck, and he'll be like, oh, it's just 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.040 a little one, and people, to save his ego, would 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.680 say like, oh, it's a good eater. Though this is 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.600 very common in the hunting world because the flesh is 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.400 more tender because they haven't gotten all ropey and old. Yes, 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:59.000 that's that's how. That's the thinking on it, even though 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.119 there are notable That makes feel better because I'm about 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:03.080 to hit forty, which means I'm less likely to be 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.719 cannibalized because I want He would be like, that's not 0:21:06.760 --> 0:21:11.159 a good eater. So um. This guy goes on to 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:14.160 say that he has a problem with our us, saying 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:19.119 that like waterfowl, that you should that that older waterfol 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:23.639 is less good because he's saying that the best goose 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:26.560 he ever ate was at I'm reading this guy's, you know, 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.359 because I like some of the lingo he uses. The 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.720 best goose he ever ate was last year at Old 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.840 Bob Milligan's game dinner. He brought a goose that he 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:40.119 he brought a goose that Bob Milligan smoked, and he 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.280 said that this goose was tagged. So he had a 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:46.639 banded goose that was banded on James Bay fifteen years 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:51.040 earlier as a mature bird a birdie. So he brings 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:53.359 a bird it's at least sixteen years old over to 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.800 Bob Milligan's. Bob Milligan smokes it, says it's melt in 0:21:57.840 --> 0:22:00.159 your mouth, tender like you would think it's still had 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.520 the yolk sack attached. And he goes down and say, 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.399 I highly doubt that this had anything to do with 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.879 Bob's smoking technique, as his smoked venison is like eating 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:15.680 an old boot. Last point quick to make um someone 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:18.640 was saying that we got marked, like my talking about 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:21.800 Mark Twain. Mark Twain was the pen name of Samuel Clements. 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.639 So the author of Huck Finn Tom Sawyer Um, his 0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:27.880 name was sam Clements and he adopted the name Mark Twain. 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.720 We're talking about how Mark Twain comes from. When the 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.000 riverman on the Mississippi River would have a line that 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:34.960 was marked and what I now know to be one 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:39.520 fathom increments of fathom being six ft of water. There's 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:41.080 a guy whose job it is to stand in front 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:42.359 of the boat with a rope and a weight, and 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:44.560 he throws the rope in the way out. It swings 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.840 down hits bottom and he calls to the captain the 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:53.879 depth and mark Twain is two marks, meaning to fathoms. 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:55.880 So you have twelve ft of water, and twelve ft 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:59.760 of water was safe passage for the boat. This guy 0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:03.439 goes on and say that that's not quite right. He 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:10.359 teaches Twain and he says that it's it's precarious. Twelve 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.439 ft is safe passage, and when you hit mark Twain, 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:17.920 you're like saying it's safe, but who knows the next 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:21.280 mark could be much shallower. And he talks about that Twain. 0:23:22.200 --> 0:23:25.520 His choice of that word was symbolic, and then he 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:31.280 occupied the precarious space around safety and danger. The guy 0:23:31.280 --> 0:23:33.119 whose job it was to throw the rope has a 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:35.800 rope that goes to four fathoms or twenty four ft. 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:38.840 After that he yells out, no bottom. If he throws 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:41.040 it out and it doesn't, he says no bottom. These 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.040 deeper waters would be considered much safer than the call 0:23:44.119 --> 0:23:47.399 of two fathoms or Mark Twain. So his choice of 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:52.520 two fathoms halfway between Twain zero and four suggests waters 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:55.159 that are safe for the moment, but could change to 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.200 become more dangerous or more safe with the changing level 0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.240 of the river bottom. Therefore, Clemen's choice seems to reflect 0:24:02.320 --> 0:24:06.439 his views of America at the time in his writing style. 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.800 In general, he also goes down to say that Twain 0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.240 hated He talks about how we're always celebrating Theodore Roosevelt. 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:18.480 Twain hated Theodore Roosevelt. Really, here's what Twain had to 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:23.359 say about Roosevelt in the Seven. Mr Roosevelt is the 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.680 Tom Sawyer of the political world of the twentieth century, 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:30.280 always showing off, always hunting for a chance to show off, 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.720 and his frenzied imagination, the Great Republic is a vast 0:24:33.840 --> 0:24:36.680 barnum circus with him for a clown in the whole 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:40.040 world for audience. He would go to Halifax for half 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.199 a chance to show off, and he would go to 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:46.920 Hell for the whole one. Wow, that is an awesome quote. 0:24:48.000 --> 0:24:51.359 Not did not like OTR. You don't hear many critiques 0:24:51.720 --> 0:24:56.679 Nope about him? Hated him? Okay, bigot Oh, here we go. 0:24:56.840 --> 0:24:58.080 How do you want to start out? You wanna start 0:24:58.240 --> 0:25:00.520 talking about about your relative, your elise. It was a 0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.479 bigfoot expert. Yeah. I think that's because otherwise people are like, 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:06.800 this woman's crazy. But he was a legit bigfoot expert. 0:25:06.960 --> 0:25:09.280 He was, and he was also a legit anthropologist, and 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:10.840 he probably would have had a lot more to say 0:25:10.880 --> 0:25:13.440 to you about Clovis points than I can possibly. I 0:25:13.440 --> 0:25:16.000 wouldn't be able to listen to anything he said because 0:25:16.000 --> 0:25:18.800 he was a bigfoot person. That's unfortunate, because he actually 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.879 did make good findings in the field of anthropology, but 0:25:22.960 --> 0:25:26.480 then negated him. Do you think so? I don't think so. 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.920 The one finding I do know about is he his name, 0:25:31.040 --> 0:25:34.000 His name is Grover Krantz. In reading like in starting 0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:37.439 up to talk to you. You can't type in like 0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:41.400 no Bigfoot evidence without finding out about Grover Cranps. He's 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:46.560 he's considered one of the four horsemen of Sasquatchery, which 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:48.560 is a phenomenal phrase that I would like to try 0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.200 and use every day from here on out, if possible. Um, 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.240 there's him and three other old dudes, all of them 0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:56.200 are dead but won a guy named Peter Byrne who 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:58.680 is ninety three years old and still looking for Bigfoot 0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.679 but spent his formative is in the Himalaya looking for 0:26:01.720 --> 0:26:05.000 the Yetti because he's got I do an interview with him, 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:07.320 a bonus one, and like his stories are crazy, Well, 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:09.560 can you explain that real quick? Is that how it 0:26:09.600 --> 0:26:13.600 goes is that the Yetti is from down south and 0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:18.280 then no, note the south come on like the oh no, Hey, 0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:22.000 there have been Bigfoot sightings in every state but Hawaii 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:27.720 because Bigfoot can't swim that far. Yetti. Yeah, that's what 0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:32.600 I'm asking about. Um, they're cousins, they're there, if if 0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:35.119 if they're real. The idea is that they're sort of 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:38.720 branched off from some part of the tree way on 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:44.400 back and that's a white Bigfoot. Yeah, I'm not sure entirely. 0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.720 What the what all of the didn't some dude turn 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:49.320 off at the top of the Yeti's head and it 0:26:49.400 --> 0:26:53.000 had white hair on it. I mean, like like all 0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:56.199 Bigfoot things, that was a hoax, like a demonstrated to 0:26:56.200 --> 0:27:00.679 be yes, well, no surprise there, Um, I don't. I 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.080 hadn't heard that story. There is a story about someone 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:05.920 turning up with a hand at one point. In fact, 0:27:05.920 --> 0:27:10.000 it was Peter Byrne. He was in the Himalaya and 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.920 he was at some Buddhist temple and they said, hey, 0:27:12.960 --> 0:27:15.600 we've got a Yetti hand, come take it, check it out. 0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:17.240 And he came and looked at him his huge hand 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:20.560 with these giant nails on it, and he's like, I 0:27:20.600 --> 0:27:22.199 want to take that back, and they're like, no, no, no, 0:27:22.280 --> 0:27:25.320 it's a holy symbol. You can't have it. And he 0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.159 tells this story way better. So he flies back to London. 0:27:28.320 --> 0:27:30.280 This is in the sixties, when you know all you're 0:27:30.280 --> 0:27:32.000 doing is cabling back and forth, and this is when 0:27:32.000 --> 0:27:34.520 big Foot was getting fashionable. This is yeah, this is 0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:36.920 before he even knew about Bigfoot. This was still Yetti. 0:27:37.000 --> 0:27:38.679 There was a guy named Tom Slick who was a 0:27:38.720 --> 0:27:42.439 Texas oilman who financed all these expeditions first and in 0:27:43.000 --> 0:27:45.360 the Himalaya and then in the United States, and they 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:47.399 died in a plane crash in nineteen six two and 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:49.800 his family was like, okay, we're done with this. Pulled 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:52.520 all the money and that was the end of those 0:27:52.600 --> 0:27:57.320 those particular expeditions. The hand, Yeah, So the hand, uh 0:27:57.359 --> 0:28:00.960 Peter Peter Burne, this guy talked to cable Tom Slick says, 0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.320 they've got this hand up here, and Tom says, well, 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:05.400 can you bring it back? This is all cables going 0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:09.320 back and forth, and Peter's like, no, you know, they 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.200 this is a holy relic for them, and he said, 0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:13.040 come to London. So they go to London. They meet 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:17.920 with the prosector of the London Zoo and the guy says, here, 0:28:17.960 --> 0:28:20.480 give them this hand. Instead pulls a hand out from 0:28:20.560 --> 0:28:22.480 under the table where they're having lunch, in a brown 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.960 paper bag. And so Peter takes that hand back to 0:28:26.040 --> 0:28:29.080 the Himalaya and gets a finger off of this hand 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.000 that's there, that's supposed he has a yetie hand brings 0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:34.720 it back to London. And that's a whole story in 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:37.880 and of itself. But I'm gonna involves Jimmy Stewart and 0:28:38.240 --> 0:28:41.480 smuggling stuff out of the country. It's crazy Jimmy Stewart. Yeah. 0:28:41.560 --> 0:28:44.120 Do you ever see How the West is one? Do 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:46.000 I need to? Yeah? Okay, should I write that down? 0:28:46.040 --> 0:28:49.720 He plays a frontiersman someone. I'll forget that. You know, 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:54.560 it's Christmas movie, right, it's a wonderful life I've never seen. Uh, 0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:58.560 it's a wonderful wife. Flopped at the box office? Did it? Really? People? 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:01.400 Like a production and company went out of business over 0:29:01.400 --> 0:29:03.400 What a failure? This is what everybody talks about. What 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:05.280 a great movie it is? What was it was resurrected. 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:07.240 I've never seen it. And every time I say that, 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:11.560 people I think I'm a communist. Yeah I think so. Yeah, 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:15.160 two strikes against you? Christmas? How many do I get? 0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:19.000 Christmas story has the same story? Then it was a 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:22.120 it was a flop the leg lamb. Yeah, I think 0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:25.960 I'm popping my peace a little bit, am I. Christmas story? 0:29:26.160 --> 0:29:29.480 Yeah flopped? Yeah, Yeah, it's a wonderful life flop. And 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:31.360 it was made by returning you know, it's one of 0:29:31.360 --> 0:29:35.640 It was a director who was returning from World War Two. Yeah, 0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:38.360 and he had been profoundly impacted by things he saw 0:29:38.400 --> 0:29:39.920 in World War Two and came home and made its 0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:42.080 a Wonderful Life and the flop and it was like devastating, 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:44.360 but then it became you know, it's a classic. Every 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:47.720 American family watches every year. Yeah except mine. Every America 0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:50.680 should watch every Well, we're reading, We're busy reading, Karl Marks. 0:29:52.480 --> 0:29:56.880 It's a wonderful life. I'm Jimmy Stewart. Threw me for 0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:59.600 a loop. Yeah, that Jimmy Stewarts involved in this. Yeah. 0:30:00.600 --> 0:30:03.720 So anyway, Jimmy Stewart helped smuggle this finger out back 0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:06.720 to London where they, you know, examined it, and the 0:30:06.760 --> 0:30:08.200 guy at the zoo said, I, you know, it just 0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:10.840 doesn't look like any specimen I'm familiar with. Put it 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:12.480 in a drawer and then it disappeared for years and 0:30:12.560 --> 0:30:15.240 years and years and years and years. Genetics. Yeah, well 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:19.080 then they found it and it was in his private 0:30:19.160 --> 0:30:21.480 lab at the back of some building in the zoo, 0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:24.840 and they dug it out and they ran genetics on 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:26.760 it and it was Peter Byrne's DNA that was all 0:30:26.760 --> 0:30:29.480 over it, which was really kind of interesting. So even 0:30:29.480 --> 0:30:32.760 though he'd handled it decades before, I think they did 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:35.120 the DNA testing in two thousand thirteen. He's DNA was 0:30:35.160 --> 0:30:40.920 still like coating it, which is fascinating stuff to um. 0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:42.520 They think it was human. I think it was human. 0:30:42.960 --> 0:30:44.640 It's just like some guy with a really big hand. 0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:49.200 Oh I know, right, not. Yeah, it does. It helps. 0:30:49.360 --> 0:30:53.960 It helped feed the legend for decades. Right. Anyway, back 0:30:54.000 --> 0:31:00.520 to Grover. My relatives over cransans the same last name. Yeah, 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:02.560 and and and what is the what is the relationship? 0:31:02.800 --> 0:31:06.960 He is my grandfather's cousin. So I didn't know who 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.280 he was. He had gotten this big right up in 0:31:09.320 --> 0:31:11.920 the Washington Post because he donated. First, he donated his 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:13.920 body to the Tennessee Body Farm, which is where they 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:17.760 run forensic analysis. They'll take bodies that have been donated 0:31:17.800 --> 0:31:19.480 and they'll leave him in a field or in a 0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:22.000 pond or in a trunk of a car and see 0:31:22.040 --> 0:31:24.400 what happens to them as they decay. And then they 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:28.920 use that stuff to do forensics on crimes and you know, 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:31.360 missing persons when they do find a body, that kind 0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:33.800 of thing. So he did that first, and then his 0:31:33.840 --> 0:31:37.160 skeleton went to the Smithsonian Um, along with the bones 0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:41.440 of his three Irish wolfhounds. Yahoo, Ikey and Clyde. Clyde 0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:45.040 was his favorite, and the Washington posted this huge article 0:31:45.120 --> 0:31:46.719 on him, and that's how I found out about him. 0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.000 I had no idea who he was. And then at 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.160 the last section of that article there was this sort 0:31:52.200 --> 0:31:54.480 of I don't know, three or four paragraphs about how 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:56.880 he was known for driving around the Pacific Northwest with 0:31:56.920 --> 0:32:03.160 a spotlight and a rifle searching for sasquatch. Uh you 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:10.640 mean to tell me that, Grover, you'r kin um? He 0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:15.880 was prepared to he was prepared to do the unspeakable. Yeah, 0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:18.360 he uh. He actually came out and told a reporter 0:32:18.480 --> 0:32:20.800 this because he knew that for science, you have to 0:32:20.840 --> 0:32:23.960 have a type specimen to prove the existence of a species, 0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:26.200 to get it put in the Linnaean system, to get 0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:30.200 it categorized, you have to have, you know, the equivalent 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:32.800 of a big foot stuck in styrofoam with a big 0:32:32.840 --> 0:32:35.719 pin like that, like the butterfly, like the same kind 0:32:35.760 --> 0:32:38.240 of thing. So he told a reporter this that he 0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:40.600 was prepared to shoot one for the purposes of science. 0:32:41.520 --> 0:32:44.600 That story got syndicated in newspapers all over the country, 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:47.360 and Grover got so much hate mail that they had 0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:50.560 to resort to a form letter, as did Washington State University, 0:32:50.840 --> 0:32:53.360 where he was a tenured anthropology professor. They were sending 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:57.160 out letters left and right saying you've misinterpreted this. But 0:32:57.240 --> 0:32:59.800 people were angry, even people who didn't think Bigfoot was 0:32:59.840 --> 0:33:03.120 really over. Like pist Off, I can see both sides 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:07.480 of it. Tell me, why do I see both sides 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:14.120 of it? Because sometimes you need to burn a village 0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:17.800 to save it. If you were to prove, if you 0:33:17.800 --> 0:33:26.080 were to prove definitively that there is this species, um, 0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:30.000 it would no doubt lead to a lot of protections, 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:36.200 legal habitat. Otherwise um and people would have to reckon 0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:39.920 with this reality that grow over believed in. So you're 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:41.960 killing one. And people like to have this idea that 0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:46.840 Bigfoot is like a thing, it's like a singular specimen. 0:33:47.720 --> 0:33:50.400 But you'd have to have here's here's this. This is 0:33:50.440 --> 0:33:52.640 where I start. This is one of the many areas 0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:55.680 in which I start to not believe in Bigfoot, is 0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:59.720 that you'd have to have a breeding population that is 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:04.480 serve vibed here for tens of thousands of years, and 0:34:04.520 --> 0:34:08.240 so um, there there must be a couple of thousand 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:12.120 of them in order to carry on. That's one of 0:34:12.120 --> 0:34:14.200 the theories. If you look at like you look at 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:16.160 what it takes the support. I mean, we're talking about 0:34:16.200 --> 0:34:22.360 something that's six pounds. It's enormous um. And then you 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:25.120 look at what we know about other animals of that size. 0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:28.880 It's very hard to have. It's very hard to maintain 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:33.719 stable populations of large mammals that are in that. You know, 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:35.960 you can't carry on for ten thousand years or just 0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:38.080 two or three of them running around. You need a 0:34:38.120 --> 0:34:41.239 breeding population of them. But people like to have this 0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:45.560 idea that it's just this lone wandering thing. I think 0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:49.839 that part of that idea stems from tabloid stuff. What 0:34:49.920 --> 0:34:53.399 ida the idea that there's just one because I hear 0:34:53.560 --> 0:34:59.400 that a lot from from people who aren't bigfoot experts, 0:35:00.280 --> 0:35:03.799 where they just say, oh, is he still alive? Sure, 0:35:04.560 --> 0:35:07.720 But as people who are really steeped in this world, 0:35:07.800 --> 0:35:10.760 they believe that there is a breeding population. The idea 0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.920 is roughly two thousand. So there's But then there's been 0:35:14.920 --> 0:35:18.600 bigfoot sightings in all fifty states. Yeah, I don't know 0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:20.200 how many of those came out of the bottom of 0:35:20.200 --> 0:35:25.840 a whiskey bottle. So so big we're getting ahead of ourselves. 0:35:25.840 --> 0:35:29.520 The bigfoot, Bigfoot people, Bigfoot believers. They don't like to 0:35:29.560 --> 0:35:32.040 be called believers. What did they to be called? I 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:33.799 don't know. I haven't figured that out yet, but the 0:35:33.880 --> 0:35:36.839 term belief is a bit of a They put that 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:41.440 with faith. Well, that's we're gonna keep. I want you 0:35:41.480 --> 0:35:43.799 to supply me, supply me. I don't have a better 0:35:43.840 --> 0:35:45.560 one either, And I actually fought I had a lot 0:35:45.560 --> 0:35:47.920 of conversations about this. I'm just saying that belief is 0:35:47.920 --> 0:35:49.520 a hard word for them to swallow, but they actually 0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:51.200 end up using it because they don't have a better one. 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:54.320 Don't have a better one. So Bigfoot believers, like the 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:59.960 top tier bigfoot researchers are are saying that, like, let's 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:03.080 just let's go down to core Bigfoot country, the Pacific 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:09.280 northwest right, northern California, Oregon, Washington. It seems like Bigfoot 0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.319 ground zero is the Olympic Peninsula of Washington. I'd say 0:36:12.400 --> 0:36:14.400 up in to Canada. Too open to Canada if you 0:36:14.440 --> 0:36:18.520 were going to consider. So they're they're they're suggesting that 0:36:18.600 --> 0:36:24.960 there are two thousand big Foot's running around that turf. 0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:28.680 Is it bigfoot or big feet? Big feet. I don't 0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:30.080 know what they would go, but what do they go? Like, 0:36:30.160 --> 0:36:32.440 I say, there, I'm running a poll on this right now. 0:36:32.560 --> 0:36:35.120 There seems to be tied between bigfoot and big foots? 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:38.800 Is in bigot like deer? Yeah, okay, big Foot's two 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.920 thousand big foots. You know how many grizzly bears are 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:44.120 in um? You know how many grizzly bears are in 0:36:44.160 --> 0:36:49.759 Montana and Wyoming and Idaho? No, about two thousand? You 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:52.040 know how often people run into those things? How often? 0:36:52.320 --> 0:36:57.320 A lot? Many people? Every day? Many people every day 0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:02.799 You're not not by they get hit by cars, they 0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:06.920 show up in chicken coops, they're in people's backyards, backyards, 0:37:06.920 --> 0:37:11.239 they're down at Yellowstone National Park lingering around. Um. They're 0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:13.680 nowhere near as elusive. But I want to get back 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:16.480 to him shooting one, so you see in both sides. Well, 0:37:16.480 --> 0:37:17.960 first of all, you you wouldn't shoot at a big 0:37:17.960 --> 0:37:21.960 foot if you ran into one, you know, I'm thinking 0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:26.560 about it, Yeah, especially after listening to uh Laura's podcast. Definitely, 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:28.880 because you shoot and kill a big foot you have 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:31.160 to have a specimen. Yeah, dude, I never would do 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:35.080 that because otherwise we've had this conversation before. Otherwise you 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:37.600 come back and you're just then another another guy that 0:37:37.719 --> 0:37:39.520 you're gonna be like that guy was cool, but now 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:42.240 I'd consider him crazy. And in talking about this before, 0:37:42.440 --> 0:37:46.000 I said that if I saw one, I would absolutely 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:48.719 not kill it, and I would never tell anyone that 0:37:48.760 --> 0:37:52.920 I saw it. I see, I had the same problem 0:37:52.960 --> 0:37:54.719 because if you see one and then you're like, I 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:57.080 can't tell anyone about this, They're gonna like just think 0:37:57.120 --> 0:37:59.279 I've gone off the deep end. I've been out in 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.719 the woods too long, or I've been around bigfoot people 0:38:01.719 --> 0:38:06.799 too long. Now if I could, if I follow one dead, 0:38:07.760 --> 0:38:12.840 just you know, oh, wrestle that in yeah, shouting that 0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:15.680 from the rooftouse. But no, I wouldn't kill a big foot. 0:38:17.840 --> 0:38:23.120 Why not because you, of all people me, of all people. Well, 0:38:23.160 --> 0:38:25.400 I'm just saying because you don't believe, and wouldn't you 0:38:25.440 --> 0:38:30.160 want people to I wouldn't kill one because I just 0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:34.319 don't go off shooting guns and whatnot at things that 0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:37.240 I don't have. That's not what I'm saying. Just because 0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:39.520 you don't because you don't believe, when if you did 0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:43.520 see one, and knowing what the sort of general populace 0:38:43.640 --> 0:38:45.360 thinks of this or what people would think if you 0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:47.400 were to come back and say, you just wouldn't tell anyone, 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:49.319 You just and then you bury it in the back 0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:52.680 of your mind and never think of it again. Yeah, 0:38:53.239 --> 0:38:54.799 that's what I would do. Okay, what else have you 0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:58.480 seen out there that you're not telling this about? Thankfully? 0:38:58.920 --> 0:39:02.720 Thankfully nothing? Okay, thankfully nothing. Um, but no, I wouldn't 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:07.200 kill one. You're honest. I'm disappointed he would kill one. 0:39:07.520 --> 0:39:09.160 I don't. I feel like you'd be in some trouble. 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:11.680 Is that not true? Well, it's not like it's a 0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:16.399 protected species. I believe Grover's saying was, and I don't 0:39:16.440 --> 0:39:17.880 know if I have this correct, but he was the 0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:19.759 first person who shoots one should get a medal, the 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:22.879 second one should go to jail. So he really from 0:39:22.920 --> 0:39:25.120 a science perspective, he felt you needed to have a 0:39:25.160 --> 0:39:27.480 specimen in order to prove its existence. Now d n 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:30.879 A would change that to some degree, because if you've 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:34.160 got d n A off of something and that was 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:38.439 significantly different from anything else in that phylogenetic tree, then 0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:40.719 you might have more of a case. But even then 0:39:40.840 --> 0:39:44.920 I don't think they allow you. Well, I don't know 0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:47.920 this for sure. You might be able to name a 0:39:47.920 --> 0:39:53.560 species based on DNA alone now, but but you can't 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:56.319 do it for footprints, you can't do it for other stuff. Yeah, 0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.720 you mentioned the Linnaean system. That's like us being Homo 0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:05.520 sapien kingdom phil um class order, family genus. Yes, that's 0:40:05.520 --> 0:40:08.000 like our when you see like the Linnean name, or 0:40:08.000 --> 0:40:09.960 some people call it the Latin name for an animal, 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:15.960 and there's by like binomial. Yeah. I got a refresher 0:40:16.000 --> 0:40:18.960 on high school biology when I started doing the second episode, 0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:21.840 which is on evolution. Yeah, we haven't. We haven't established 0:40:21.840 --> 0:40:27.000 this yet. Your show. Oh oh right, I have a show. Yeah, 0:40:27.160 --> 0:40:30.160 tell people about that. So the Grover thing got me interested, 0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.200 and then I kind of sat on this story for 0:40:33.239 --> 0:40:34.759 a few years. I didn't really know what to do 0:40:34.800 --> 0:40:37.200 with it, but with the background in radio, and then 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:39.000 when I was living in Denver. When I moved to Denver, 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:42.319 I found out that Grower's fourth and last wife lived 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:44.239 about thirty miles away, and I thought, you know what, 0:40:44.280 --> 0:40:45.799 I'm just going to go talk to her. And she 0:40:45.840 --> 0:40:48.960 had some good stories about Grower that weren't necessarily Bigfoot related. 0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:51.759 They were just like about an interesting, really kind of 0:40:51.760 --> 0:40:54.480 a fascinating guy. And then she put me in touch 0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:56.239 with a few more people, and by that point I 0:40:56.280 --> 0:41:00.319 was realizing that these interviews were really pretty compereng and 0:41:00.360 --> 0:41:01.680 pretty fun to do, and I was like, I'm going 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:05.360 to do a podcast, and so that's what I decided 0:41:05.400 --> 0:41:07.920 to do. So I had a podcast started on October two. 0:41:08.040 --> 0:41:13.160 It's called wild Thing, and it's about Grover, this relative 0:41:13.200 --> 0:41:15.120 of mine, and it's about the people who are looking 0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:17.320 for Bigfoot and who are spending all kinds of time 0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:21.480 and money and energy. And then it's sort of suspending 0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:25.279 disbelief and saying, Okay, if Bigfoot is a thing, where 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.719 would it fit in the evolutionary tree? How would we 0:41:27.760 --> 0:41:30.480 what does the evidence look like? Um, what are some 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:32.839 of the encounters that people have had? And then it's 0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.759 also looking at the cultural significance of Bigfoot, because even 0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:40.160 for people who don't believe in Bigfoot, don't think Bigfoot's real, 0:41:40.480 --> 0:41:42.759 I think it's kind of silly. There is a fascination 0:41:43.719 --> 0:41:46.359 and a lot of companies have tapped into that too. 0:41:46.400 --> 0:41:50.160 I mean, um, you know Bigfoot beers and Bigfoot bikes 0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:55.120 and a small cooler company called Yeah that's Spaghetti totally different, 0:41:55.280 --> 0:42:01.600 totally different, wouldn't learn anything. Yeah, I mean they're that 0:42:01.800 --> 0:42:03.960 the YETI I think falls into the same category in 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:08.240 terms of this smifical what's the word crypto? Cryptozogy crypto 0:42:08.440 --> 0:42:12.759 studying stuff that doesn't actually exist? Um, crypto. Well, it's 0:42:12.800 --> 0:42:15.000 kind of secret. I guess I don't know that full. 0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:18.560 I didn't really do the etymology of the word. But yeah, 0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:21.520 I want to move on from grow over. But I 0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:24.600 understand like you're the genesis of your interest came from him, 0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:27.200 came from realizing that you were long lost relatives with 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:30.759 leading bigfoot researcher. Yeah. Not many people get to claim that, 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:32.600 but I want to. I want to point out something 0:42:32.640 --> 0:42:37.359 that I'm that I'm picking up about Grover. Four wives, right, 0:42:38.160 --> 0:42:43.520 what happened to the other three? No, the first two, 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:46.799 the first three were divorces. Um, I don't think the 0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:49.399 first two lasted very long. The third one didn't really either, 0:42:49.440 --> 0:42:51.160 and then the fourth one he was married to Diane 0:42:51.280 --> 0:42:56.480 for over twenty years. So a bunch of spouses donates 0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:59.920 his body to be to learn how to study rotting corps. 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:04.720 His bones and his dogs go to Smithsonian. I'm getting 0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:08.440 the you're painting a picture to me of a person 0:43:08.560 --> 0:43:15.920 who has and like outsized perspective of themselves and who 0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:19.799 is a uh an eccentric and wants people to know 0:43:19.880 --> 0:43:23.480 about it. I think that is probably fair, which is 0:43:23.680 --> 0:43:27.600 also not what you're generally looking for when it comes 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:31.840 to a researcher that there is some truth to that. However, 0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:35.279 I did talk to students and friends and people who 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.920 had worked with him, and he was very well liked 0:43:39.040 --> 0:43:42.439 and well respected. His classes were always full. People loved 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:44.600 him as a professor. So I don't think he was 0:43:44.719 --> 0:43:48.279 just and you know, egomaniac running around look at me, 0:43:48.320 --> 0:43:54.959 look at me, look at me. And ultimately I feel, well, 0:43:55.000 --> 0:43:57.040 maybe this isn't the case some you know, some showmen, 0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:00.520 they do stuff because they want people to like them, 0:44:00.520 --> 0:44:04.080 and they want people to pay attention to them and 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.320 respect them and think that they're great. I think Grover 0:44:07.000 --> 0:44:08.960 I didn't really care what people thought. He just had 0:44:09.040 --> 0:44:11.239 kind of weird ideas and like to pursue them. At 0:44:11.280 --> 0:44:14.080 one point, he was trying to figure out why certain 0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:18.720 human ancestors had this sort of prominent brow ridge. Yeah, 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.719 and so he took a piece of styrofoam and he 0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:26.600 or styrene and he carved a brow and he glued 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.560 it to his forehead, and he walked around campus for 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:31.319 a couple of weeks like that, just to kind of 0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:34.200 try and understand why, what's the point of something like 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:37.920 that so you don't have to walk around his hand up. 0:44:39.640 --> 0:44:41.960 I think that's ultimately what he decided is. You know, 0:44:42.280 --> 0:44:44.359 it served as an eyeshade, which may not have been 0:44:44.480 --> 0:44:48.359 enough for it to stick around as a residual evolutionary trade. 0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:56.560 But on the open savannah, yeah it could help. 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Um, 0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.680 where did you sit on what was your sort of 0:48:06.960 --> 0:48:11.919 feelings about knowledge about an opinion on bigfoot before you 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:14.279 realize that you had that you were related to a 0:48:14.280 --> 0:48:16.680 bigfoot research and I thought this was tinfoil hat stuff 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:20.440 like all the way that just conspiracy theory and like 0:48:20.560 --> 0:48:25.160 people who are a little unplugged from reality. Um, you know, 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:29.040 it's tabloid. It's like Bigfoot had my baby headlines on 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:32.640 the Weekly World News and the National Enquirer. My one 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:35.080 movie that I'd ever seen was Harry and the Henderson's Yes, 0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:37.560 that's supposed to be your relative. The guy with the 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:40.520 gun trying to kill bigh That is uh. The guy 0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:44.560 who's supposed to be closest to Grover is Walter. What 0:48:44.640 --> 0:48:47.360 did his last name? He's the nice guy, the older 0:48:47.920 --> 0:48:49.520 guy who's like, I'm never going to see a big 0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:51.440 Foot and then he like turns and looks and there's 0:48:51.680 --> 0:48:53.680 Harry right there. I forget what his name is. That 0:48:53.760 --> 0:48:57.279 was your relatively supposedly loosely modeled on Grover, and the 0:48:57.280 --> 0:48:59.680 gun guy was modeled on a guy named Renee to 0:48:59.760 --> 0:49:04.640 hint and who was a Swiss immigrant to Canada and 0:49:04.760 --> 0:49:08.040 was supposedly a little unhinged. But I also don't know 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:10.799 how closely these hued to their actually yeah, just like 0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:16.920 but maybe informed the It's like in Jaws, um in Jaws, 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:22.160 the the Shark Hunter has modeled off of Frank Mundus, 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:25.239 who was a guy in Montalk who would take people 0:49:25.239 --> 0:49:27.640 out to kill big as sharks and would wear the 0:49:27.640 --> 0:49:30.640 teeth and Okay, I don't think I knew that was, like, yeah, 0:49:30.719 --> 0:49:36.040 he was. He was. Spielberg modeled okay, took attributes from 0:49:36.040 --> 0:49:41.759 Frank Mundus yea, and called the monster man informed that 0:49:41.920 --> 0:49:46.240 informed that character. So is there a conspiracy you mentioned 0:49:46.239 --> 0:49:48.360 like you thought of it as conspiracy theory stuff, But 0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.600 there's no like conspiracy like Bigfoot. Bigfoot people think the 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:55.279 government's hiding the truth. Well, so here's the other thing 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:58.640 I learned Bigfoot people from the outside, it's a monolith. 0:49:59.000 --> 0:50:01.080 When you start in sigating a little bit more, it 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:03.600 kind of starts to divide into smaller groups. So there 0:50:03.640 --> 0:50:06.359 is a group similar to Grover who are looking at this. 0:50:06.480 --> 0:50:10.839 You know, Bigfoot is a a m undocumented primate. It's 0:50:10.880 --> 0:50:14.680 flesh and blood. It's beholden to the same laws of 0:50:14.719 --> 0:50:17.399 physics and nature that the rest of us are. Then 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:20.240 there's a whole group that are like Bigfoot was dropped 0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:23.160 off by aliens. It can move through dimensions, which is 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:26.200 why you don't see it because you'll like see the rustling, 0:50:26.239 --> 0:50:28.399 and then it moves into another dimension and then you're 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:30.839 not seeing it anymore, but it can still see you, 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:35.120 and it can you know, it's got telepathy and you know, 0:50:35.360 --> 0:50:39.839 you know what Mitch the comedian Mitch Hedberg, Uh, he's 0:50:39.840 --> 0:50:42.799 blurring around the edges, which I didn't know that joke, 0:50:43.280 --> 0:50:45.000 and I used that. I was like, I thought I 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:46.839 was so clever. I was like, look at this funny 0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:48.279 joke that I wrote, and I put it into the 0:50:48.280 --> 0:50:50.920 third episode and then someone's like, Mitch Hedberg wrote that joke, 0:50:54.000 --> 0:50:56.520 but there's no new material out there. I was reminded 0:50:56.520 --> 0:50:59.120 of it by the third dimensional, like the third dimensional 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:01.879 idea that that so there are people that they both 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:07.440 dimension actually because we're moving through Yeah, you're three dimension Okay, 0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:10.200 so there's that's so does a school thought that grow 0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:13.759 over occupied it's a species. It's just it's been an 0:51:13.800 --> 0:51:16.560 undocumented subject to all the things that we're subject to. 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:22.200 And then there's people who are like, no, it's it's supernatural, paranormal, 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:25.239 but you know, it's not beholden to the laws of 0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:27.839 physics and nature, which I just I didn't spend any 0:51:27.880 --> 0:51:30.080 time looking into that, because if you decided to suspend 0:51:30.080 --> 0:51:33.120 the laws of physics for Bigfoot, you probably ought to 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:36.680 do it for everything else. To a Native American man explained, 0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:39.720 because we dog on big Foot a lot. A Native 0:51:39.719 --> 0:51:44.000 American man explained to me. Um wrote a letter to 0:51:44.000 --> 0:51:47.120 me once trying to explain sort of the position that 0:51:47.120 --> 0:51:51.919 that they didn't call it bigfoot, but there was there's 0:51:51.920 --> 0:51:57.759 a Native American tradition about this large Yeah, and he 0:51:57.920 --> 0:52:01.880 explained it in that way, like he used the term 0:52:01.880 --> 0:52:05.400 of a shape shifter, like a sort of magical creature, 0:52:05.680 --> 0:52:08.960 and that was the way it was discussed. Yeah, And 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:13.400 I didn't know that there's a lot of creatures in 0:52:13.520 --> 0:52:17.040 Native American folklore, in a Native American stories, that are 0:52:17.080 --> 0:52:20.680 everyday creatures that are imbued with these kinds of magical qualities. 0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:24.280 Um Grower's theory was well with those, if you strip 0:52:24.320 --> 0:52:26.319 out all the magical stuff, you have the animal. So 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:28.719 he thought maybe Bigfoot would be the same kind of thing, 0:52:28.800 --> 0:52:34.000 like coyote was a trickster or raven or you know, 0:52:34.080 --> 0:52:37.239 thunderbird they think was the condor, which apparently should be 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:42.480 extinct according to John Muellum. Oh yeah, I guess people 0:52:42.600 --> 0:52:45.960 riled up. Does it strike that from the record. So 0:52:46.520 --> 0:52:48.000 that's all I've been meaning to talk about more at 0:52:48.000 --> 0:52:49.799 some point, more condor thoughts. So we've got a lot 0:52:49.800 --> 0:52:54.520 of condor feedback we talked about, Um is there another variety? 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:57.759 So you have the magic, the metaphysical Bigfoot, and then 0:52:58.080 --> 0:53:01.200 within there's also some people who think there is an 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:05.520 actual government or logging industry cover up. The idea being 0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:08.200 that's similar with the spotted owl, is something like Bigfoot 0:53:09.360 --> 0:53:11.440 actually is proved to exist in the forest of the 0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:13.640 Pacific Northwest. Well, ship, you're not going to be can 0:53:13.680 --> 0:53:16.239 I swear? Yeah? I'll try and cut it out and 0:53:16.360 --> 0:53:20.560 get carried away. Um, we you know we can't go 0:53:20.600 --> 0:53:24.360 in there and log anymore. It's going to ruin our industry. 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:26.000 I mean, if they did that for the owl, what 0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:27.759 are they going to do for Bigfoot? So there's a 0:53:27.840 --> 0:53:33.360 there's a conspiracy idea that either the Forest Service or 0:53:33.400 --> 0:53:37.160 the logging industry is somehow involved in covering this stuff 0:53:37.239 --> 0:53:39.320 up because they want to keep on business as usual, 0:53:41.239 --> 0:53:44.000 all right. That brings up something that brings up a 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:46.880 real problem for me with something in your show that 0:53:46.920 --> 0:53:50.239 I feel like it needs better explanation early on and 0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:52.880 without giving too much way to the listeners. Early on 0:53:52.960 --> 0:53:55.919 in your series on Bigfoot, you go out with some 0:53:56.160 --> 0:54:04.359 fellers to investigate some Bigfoot nests and they explained to you, 0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:06.239 and I had a very hard time with this. They 0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:08.839 explained to you that a timber cruiser, like a person 0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:11.920 who assesses timber ahead of a timber harvest, see like 0:54:12.600 --> 0:54:14.520 you know, timber cruiser would go out and would be like, 0:54:14.760 --> 0:54:17.359 you know, does cutting is cutting here warranted? How many 0:54:17.360 --> 0:54:20.520 board feed are here? What's the except around the tree 0:54:20.640 --> 0:54:26.000 accessibility of the timber? That the timber cruiser goes out 0:54:26.120 --> 0:54:30.560 and finds bigfoot nests and these individuals bigfoot people suggest 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:35.000 to you that they then called off the timber harvest 0:54:35.200 --> 0:54:37.360 in order to give them a couple of years to 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:41.040 do research on the big foot nests and locked off 0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:45.040 all access to the area on the Olympic Peninsula. Locked 0:54:45.040 --> 0:54:47.640 off all access to the area in order to allow 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:50.480 them to carry out their research. And only they can 0:54:50.520 --> 0:54:57.800 go into the area. Really mhm. The land was already gated. 0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:00.880 It was private timberland, okay, So it wasn't like it 0:55:00.920 --> 0:55:05.520 was for a it was private forest land. This guy 0:55:05.640 --> 0:55:08.239 was out and it's his family's land. And so this 0:55:08.280 --> 0:55:10.960 guy was out doing, you know, looking for timber and 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:12.600 figuring out like what the cut was going to be 0:55:12.640 --> 0:55:15.240 on this particular plot, and then came across this stuff 0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:19.120 found the nests, called an the Department of Natural Resources 0:55:19.960 --> 0:55:22.640 from Washington and called an the Olympic Project. Now my 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:24.880 feeling is is if you called an the Olympic Project 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.640 is probably because you already have some sort of ideas 0:55:27.680 --> 0:55:30.080 about bigfoot in your mind, because they're they're Bigfoot research. 0:55:30.080 --> 0:55:32.799 They're Bigfoot Research, very nice people, very down to earth. 0:55:32.840 --> 0:55:37.879 They run some really interesting programs that actually, um, well 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:39.239 we can get to this later. But I like the 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:41.880 idea that some of the stuff that happens with bigfoot 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:47.960 research is people get trained to recognize animal calls, to 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:50.160 recognize things in the woods, so they're not assuming that 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:52.360 everything out there is a bigfoot. But that's kind of 0:55:52.360 --> 0:55:57.960 a sidebar. Anyway, uh DNR came out and Olympic Project 0:55:57.960 --> 0:55:59.960 came out, and everyone's kind of looking at these things 0:56:00.080 --> 0:56:02.279 is thinking I don't know what they are. And so 0:56:02.360 --> 0:56:05.400 the timber guy, because it's his family's land, said, you know, 0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:09.960 we'll log somewhere else. You get five years. What did 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.120 the why don't they allow anyone to photograph the big 0:56:12.120 --> 0:56:14.040 foot nests. Oh they will, They just wouldn't let me. 0:56:15.560 --> 0:56:17.800 How far are the big can google? If you google 0:56:17.800 --> 0:56:22.520 Bigfoot nests Olympic Peninsula, you'll find them online. No problem. Pictures, Okay, 0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:27.480 how can you just give us a rough sketch? I'd say, yeah, 0:56:27.520 --> 0:56:31.560 eight nine ten diameter, like they're pretty, they're they're woven, 0:56:31.600 --> 0:56:34.239 They're like a bird's nest. Now, I saw them two 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:36.319 and a half years in three years in after they 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:38.920 had been found, and they were pretty degraded, but you 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:41.680 could still tell that they had been woven up the 0:56:41.760 --> 0:56:44.880 edges and up the sides. Um, and why hasn't anyone 0:56:44.920 --> 0:56:48.000 just run Why hasn't anyone run genetic swabs on these 0:56:48.000 --> 0:56:55.320 things they have? That's in the podcast there and what 0:56:55.320 --> 0:56:57.719 what what? What is the This isn't running until after 0:56:57.800 --> 0:57:01.120 December four? Right? Correct? Okay? What species is it that 0:57:01.239 --> 0:57:06.840 left the um? They found? Any kind of species you 0:57:06.840 --> 0:57:11.080 would have expected in the Pacific Northwest? Uh? The only 0:57:11.120 --> 0:57:15.760 primate they found was human, real human human human, not 0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:18.760 close to human. And then they found horse, which was 0:57:18.840 --> 0:57:21.160 kind of weird, but somebody probably tracked that in on 0:57:21.200 --> 0:57:24.880 their boots and so it was contamination so these were 0:57:24.960 --> 0:57:27.560 run at a lab in New York, probably whoever made 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:30.720 the nest or these guys out there cutting samples out 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:32.560 of it, because it's going to be very unless you 0:57:32.640 --> 0:57:35.600 go in like your and even crime scenes get cross 0:57:35.600 --> 0:57:37.720 contaminated all the time, unless you're going in and like 0:57:37.720 --> 0:57:43.520 a full level four biohazard suit. Um yeah, yeah. Any 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:46.360 I mean, if if that finger that Peter Burne touched 0:57:46.920 --> 0:57:49.640 seventy years ago, the Yettie hand still had his DNA 0:57:49.720 --> 0:57:53.000 on it, that stuff could have been there for But 0:57:53.000 --> 0:57:55.920 when you usually when you pull DNA from a bone 0:57:56.320 --> 0:57:59.480 usually go in, you know, you go into a very 0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:04.040 control old atmosphere and pull material from inside of the 0:58:04.080 --> 0:58:07.480 bone where you don't have as much surface contamination. Well 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:10.200 they did, they took big pie shaped wedges out of 0:58:10.240 --> 0:58:13.040 the nests. They bagged them up um, but there were 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:16.240 some problems with the materials still having moisture in it, 0:58:16.440 --> 0:58:23.080 so you know that hastens um degradation of samples. And 0:58:23.120 --> 0:58:26.400 then they also did not do DNA testing on the 0:58:26.440 --> 0:58:30.840 nests immediately. They waited a few years. So wind and 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:32.800 rain and sun and all the rest of that had 0:58:32.840 --> 0:58:35.680 also done some some damage to it, so you know, 0:58:35.760 --> 0:58:39.480 and that that sort of has people holding out hope 0:58:39.800 --> 0:58:43.880 that Okay, maybe these samples were contaminated and so we 0:58:43.920 --> 0:58:46.920 didn't get everything we needed out of it, or maybe 0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:50.160 whatever Bigfoot is, it's so closely related to humans that 0:58:50.360 --> 0:58:56.640 we're perceiving this human DNA as contamination but it's actually Bigfoot. Okay, 0:58:57.360 --> 0:58:59.200 can you lay out just like like totally, like just 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:03.080 straight face, like never mind mind negativity, Like layoff for me. 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:06.280 What in the community, in the Bigfoot community, what are 0:59:06.280 --> 0:59:10.560 the biggest like in the Bigfoot community, what are the 0:59:10.680 --> 0:59:13.800 right now sort of the hot pieces of evidence, like 0:59:14.080 --> 0:59:16.640 right now, like what is the you know, if you're 0:59:16.680 --> 0:59:20.600 really gonna sit down and present at a conference of 0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:24.360 of of of scientists, Okay, you're going to present and 0:59:24.360 --> 0:59:27.760 you get the best, brightest mind from the Bigfoot world, 0:59:28.000 --> 0:59:30.880 and he needs to come in and be like this 0:59:30.920 --> 0:59:33.400 is real. We need to pay attention to this. What 0:59:33.480 --> 0:59:35.080 are the three or four things that he's gonna lay 0:59:35.080 --> 0:59:40.120 out for us, um the Patterson Gimblan I'm not he 0:59:40.240 --> 0:59:42.520 or she will lay out for us. The Paterson Gimblin 0:59:42.560 --> 0:59:45.120 film will always come up. This is that nine seven 0:59:45.120 --> 0:59:48.480 footage Extremely Shaky was shot in the Six Rivers National 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:51.400 Forest area of northern California, so sort of near Eureka 0:59:51.480 --> 0:59:55.440 Willow Creek. UM. That is always held up as being 0:59:56.440 --> 1:00:00.240 a piece of evidence. Um. It's called the Pa Person 1:00:00.280 --> 1:00:02.720 Gimblin film, and you have seen it. Everybody has seen it, 1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:04.840 or they've at least seen the still from it, which 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:07.600 is the big foot sort of one hand in front, 1:00:07.640 --> 1:00:10.960 one hand behind, looking back over its shoulder. But didn't 1:00:10.960 --> 1:00:14.040 that didn't the big Foot? Wasn't that person? They were 1:00:14.240 --> 1:00:17.439 going out to film a big foot. They were out 1:00:17.480 --> 1:00:21.520 if so Roger Patterson, Yeah, I know. Roger Patterson and 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:25.160 Bob Gimlin were down there looking the tracks. There had 1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:30.960 been tracks found in that area around some um logging 1:00:30.960 --> 1:00:33.160 equipment that had been put in over a weekend, and 1:00:33.160 --> 1:00:35.880 then the loggers came back in on a Monday morning 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:40.280 and there were these tracks, and everybody got all kerfuffled 1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:44.320 about this. So Roger Patterson and Bob Gimblin came down 1:00:44.320 --> 1:00:47.360 from the Yakama, Washington area and spent three weeks, three 1:00:47.440 --> 1:00:49.440 or four weeks out there just kind of looking around. 1:00:49.920 --> 1:00:51.680 But yes, the fact that they were out looking for 1:00:51.720 --> 1:00:57.760 Bigfoot and Roger happened all running a camera adds questions 1:00:57.800 --> 1:01:01.600 to it. The flip side is, no one has ever 1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:04.320 brought the suit out, the suit that was worn in 1:01:04.360 --> 1:01:07.600 that film. And there's some questions about something that is seen, 1:01:07.880 --> 1:01:10.800 like someone can see a clasp and they argue that 1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:14.800 it was dry dung. That's a new one. I haven't 1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:16.400 heard that one. I don't know. But this is the thing. 1:01:16.440 --> 1:01:17.600 If you go to the if you go to the 1:01:17.640 --> 1:01:21.200 Patterson Giblin, WI Wikipedia page, we'll see you next year, 1:01:21.280 --> 1:01:23.960 Like you'll be in there. Every link that could you 1:01:23.960 --> 1:01:26.080 could possibly imagine. It's one of the deepest rabbit holes 1:01:26.120 --> 1:01:27.800 I've ever spent time in. And I just finally I 1:01:27.800 --> 1:01:29.400 was like, I can't, I'm done. I have to move 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:32.800 on to something else. Um. But three different people have 1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:35.080 claimed to be the guy in the suit. No one's 1:01:35.120 --> 1:01:38.439 details match anyone else's details. It's just there's a lot 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:40.920 of like questioning about it in the same way that 1:01:40.960 --> 1:01:42.960 there is about a lot of the other other evidence, 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:47.120 like what is real, what is not. They still hold 1:01:47.200 --> 1:01:51.160 that famous because no one has disproved it, so they 1:01:51.160 --> 1:01:54.480 still put it up as being a significant piece of evidence. 1:01:54.800 --> 1:01:57.400 There were also footprints taken from the creature that day 1:01:57.440 --> 1:02:01.640 there's plaster casts and those are around as well, and 1:02:01.760 --> 1:02:07.560 seen as there's a I think it's the meta is 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.600 that the metataurs break. It basically is the break halfway 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:12.960 in the foot where it would be bending, whereas if 1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:15.120 these were fake feet, they would have been you know, 1:02:15.200 --> 1:02:17.120 flat on the ground, and this has a break in 1:02:17.160 --> 1:02:20.080 it so it looks like it's got pressure, so that 1:02:20.160 --> 1:02:24.520 you know, the on that foot anatomy and and mobility 1:02:24.640 --> 1:02:29.080 is brought into play there. Yeah, so it's like these 1:02:29.120 --> 1:02:31.320 little tiny bits that those are the kinds of things 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:34.480 where you're like, well and they're hanging, they hang on 1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:41.720 to that one the you know the other. The other 1:02:41.760 --> 1:02:43.800 thing that's brought up a lot is how many footprints 1:02:43.800 --> 1:02:46.960 they're actually are, and the idea that someone could be 1:02:47.000 --> 1:02:49.680 hoaxing all of those and being you know, out there 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:56.120 with fake feet seems impossible. So if you've got one 1:02:56.160 --> 1:02:59.439 one hand, all these fake footprints and they're all fake, 1:02:59.480 --> 1:03:01.560 and on one on the other hand, it's like bigfoot. 1:03:01.720 --> 1:03:05.280 Both seem equally silly. But what seems more likely, well, 1:03:05.440 --> 1:03:10.880 they tend to sink. Bigfoot is more likely. Um, what 1:03:10.920 --> 1:03:12.320 are some of the other ones, I mean, the DNA, 1:03:12.480 --> 1:03:15.480 there's a lot of hope being held out for DNA stuff, 1:03:16.560 --> 1:03:18.920 and who knows if that will ever turn anything up. 1:03:18.920 --> 1:03:21.280 It would be helpful if they could actually get samples 1:03:21.280 --> 1:03:26.120 of something that is is different from you know, bear 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:30.480 poop or human DNA or dear hair, because a lot 1:03:30.520 --> 1:03:33.640 of samples get sent in and then some guys saying, 1:03:33.640 --> 1:03:35.280 oh I saw this weird thing out in the woods, 1:03:35.320 --> 1:03:37.080 and then sends in the sample and then it ends 1:03:37.120 --> 1:03:42.600 up being the same as nothing, nothing unusual. Yeah, I 1:03:42.600 --> 1:03:44.680 want to come back to good pieces of and unless 1:03:44.680 --> 1:03:46.400 I mean, are there anymore? Are there any like real 1:03:46.480 --> 1:03:50.240 zingers right now? The print? I know there's a body 1:03:50.280 --> 1:03:52.640 print from two thousand where someone put out some fruit bait. 1:03:53.080 --> 1:03:57.520 Oh yeah, and it slipped and it is impressure the 1:03:57.600 --> 1:03:59.840 butt print. I think that one's called I can't remember what. 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:03.040 And someone proposed this scookomb cast that's that one. And 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:06.800 someone proposed that he the bigfoot in getting the bait, 1:04:07.080 --> 1:04:09.480 didn't want to leave trap, that they don't like to 1:04:09.560 --> 1:04:14.640 leave tracks, and so he approached the bait somehow, laying down, 1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:16.400 and someone pointed out, well, if he doesn't want to 1:04:16.440 --> 1:04:18.680 leave footprints, it seems that he would also not want 1:04:18.760 --> 1:04:23.760 to leave a large body impression of himself. It seems fair. 1:04:23.920 --> 1:04:25.760 And that was in two thousand and that was researched 1:04:25.800 --> 1:04:29.360 by the big Foot Field Research Organization. Familiar with them. Yes, 1:04:29.640 --> 1:04:32.280 that was a group started by a guy named Matt Moneymaker, 1:04:32.840 --> 1:04:35.280 who I know is not a great name, it's his 1:04:35.320 --> 1:04:39.920 actual name. I did any him. He was on UM 1:04:39.960 --> 1:04:43.040 Finding Bigfoot, that TV show that was you know, ran 1:04:43.160 --> 1:04:46.080 like nine seasons, seven years, nine seasons something like that 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:50.439 UM and was extremely popular. We were talking a minute 1:04:50.480 --> 1:04:53.760 about d NA UM and if if more evidence comes up, 1:04:53.800 --> 1:04:55.720 let's come back to evidence. But we're talking about DNA, 1:04:56.840 --> 1:05:00.720 which brings up this question of what is the idea 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:03.919 of like what is it? How did it get here? 1:05:04.400 --> 1:05:07.240 Do they believe that it DNA? I was like, I 1:05:07.280 --> 1:05:12.560 can't help that. Okay, Again, imagine that that Bigfoot people 1:05:12.600 --> 1:05:15.960 are in explaining this UM in a in a you know, 1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:19.560 in a symposium. There's sort of two theories on this 1:05:20.200 --> 1:05:22.400 UM that I found sort of. I mean, I again, 1:05:22.520 --> 1:05:24.200 the stuff I did in this was very big foot 1:05:24.240 --> 1:05:27.680 one oh one. So there's much more elaborate theories out there. 1:05:27.720 --> 1:05:30.240 But the way I saw it was, there's people who 1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:33.680 think that that bigfoot would be closely related to humans, 1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:37.120 would be descended from an ancient human ancestor. Um. There's 1:05:37.160 --> 1:05:40.120 a guy named Jeff Meldrum who is a professor of 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:43.000 anthropology at Idaho State University. He's kind of picked up 1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:47.000 the mantle from Grover, my relative as being the academic 1:05:47.120 --> 1:05:52.040 bigfoot guy, and he thinks it's probably descended from an 1:05:52.040 --> 1:05:57.919 ancient human relative and you know, branched off a couple 1:05:58.000 --> 1:06:02.160 million years ago and pasted the bearing land bridge um 1:06:02.640 --> 1:06:06.480 or passed through Bryingio and arrived here ahead of humans. No, 1:06:09.440 --> 1:06:11.800 when you know, I don't remember what he said about 1:06:11.840 --> 1:06:14.040 how it ended up in Yeah, No, it would have 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:15.880 come here around the same time as humans. It would 1:06:15.920 --> 1:06:19.320 have been following along the same time as everyone else. 1:06:19.720 --> 1:06:22.439 So the interesting one of the interesting things I learned 1:06:22.480 --> 1:06:26.280 during this process was about evolution. And the idea for 1:06:26.320 --> 1:06:28.080 a long time was the evolution was a straight line 1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:32.000 that we you know, it was this slowly evolving line 1:06:32.040 --> 1:06:36.440 from primitiveness to perfection. And that's not the case. That 1:06:36.560 --> 1:06:39.080 it's just it's a shrub. Basically, there's all these different 1:06:39.080 --> 1:06:41.680 offshoots and branches and things that like you know, looked 1:06:41.720 --> 1:06:43.640 like they were promising and then just poof kind of 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:46.000 died out, and at one point in time there was 1:06:46.200 --> 1:06:50.480 as many as like eight or nine hominid species walking 1:06:50.520 --> 1:06:52.840 around the planet at the same time. Yeah, you get 1:06:52.840 --> 1:06:57.880 in the area of um around the southern Mediterranean, in 1:06:57.880 --> 1:07:01.600 the Middle East, in northern Africa, and there's just all 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:08.200 kinds of different Dennis Evans and Neanderthal and homle Forlorensiensis, 1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:12.080 and I mean, there's just lots of different things. It's 1:07:12.200 --> 1:07:14.080 kind of like nature throwing spaghetti at the wall and 1:07:14.120 --> 1:07:16.160 seeing what sticks to some degree. But many of these 1:07:16.160 --> 1:07:21.160 things had like enormously long you know, like Neanderthal's were 1:07:21.240 --> 1:07:25.000 in Neanderthals. Yeah, I know, but it's like, you know 1:07:25.000 --> 1:07:27.000 what you mean, there's certain things, there's certain things you 1:07:27.000 --> 1:07:29.120 know they're right and you don't care anyway, but you 1:07:29.160 --> 1:07:31.360 don't do it because it just winds up making a 1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:33.960 statement about itself. Like there's certain words you struggle with, 1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:38.240 like like the niche or it's niche, right, So you 1:07:38.280 --> 1:07:40.360 wind up being like, Okay, I get I understand it's 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:42.919 supposed to do it this way, like buffalo and bison. Yeah, 1:07:44.080 --> 1:07:48.040 I struggle with it all the time. Um, So I'm 1:07:48.080 --> 1:07:52.280 just gonna go Neanderthal. Okay, that's fine. That's what I'm 1:07:52.320 --> 1:07:55.000 not gonna judge you, Um, knowing that I should that 1:07:55.120 --> 1:07:59.040 I'm not saying it right. That they had, that they occupied, 1:07:59.680 --> 1:08:04.400 you're for far longer than modern humans. If they were 1:08:04.400 --> 1:08:07.560 there for there were six thousand years. So to call 1:08:07.640 --> 1:08:10.520 him a failure, it's like by what measure right? And 1:08:10.600 --> 1:08:13.680 I'm not saying they're a failure necessarily. Um, that's not 1:08:13.720 --> 1:08:16.559 what I was trying to imply in the least. But 1:08:16.800 --> 1:08:18.960 what's interesting and what they found out in recent years 1:08:19.000 --> 1:08:21.320 is they may not have in fact died out. They 1:08:21.360 --> 1:08:24.639 may have just inner bread and now like you could 1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:27.639 do those twenty three and me ancestry dot Com DNA 1:08:27.720 --> 1:08:30.800 tests and people are like, oh, I'm I have I 1:08:30.840 --> 1:08:35.240 have less than average, I have less than average Neanderthal 1:08:35.600 --> 1:08:40.400 intro aggression. And it turns out that, um, what does 1:08:40.400 --> 1:08:43.479 that mean for you? Nothing? But was surprised the dickens 1:08:43.479 --> 1:08:45.599 out of me. Was I always thought I was one 1:08:45.680 --> 1:08:57.440 fourth Sicilian and you weren't well like Italian, two North African. 1:08:57.760 --> 1:09:00.720 Oh interesting, Yeah, And it's it's all gets I mean, 1:09:00.760 --> 1:09:02.719 this is a hard This all gets so complicated because 1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:05.040 there's all kinds of how accurate is all kinds of 1:09:05.080 --> 1:09:08.559 things in your lineage that don't pass down, you know, 1:09:08.800 --> 1:09:12.599 friendly like it's it's just it's alder conversation. But yeah, 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:16.479 I took note of being less Neanderthal than average for 1:09:16.520 --> 1:09:18.839 the number of people who have submitted themselves to the testing, 1:09:18.880 --> 1:09:20.920 but still a little bit. So yeah that Neanderthals. Yeah 1:09:20.960 --> 1:09:22.880 they didn't. It wasn't like the last one one day 1:09:22.880 --> 1:09:26.599 faded away and died. There're somehow interbreeding with modern humans. Yeah. 1:09:26.920 --> 1:09:29.360 So anyway, the idea is that maybe Bigfoot is another 1:09:29.400 --> 1:09:33.440 one of these like relic comminated species that has existed 1:09:33.840 --> 1:09:37.400 and traveled a long damn ways. Well pretty much most 1:09:38.040 --> 1:09:42.800 most humanids did travel fair distances, but that's a long ways. 1:09:42.600 --> 1:09:45.519 It's a long ways. Um. And then the other theory 1:09:45.640 --> 1:09:48.240 is that Bigfoot is descended further back on the evolutionary 1:09:48.240 --> 1:09:50.600 tree and is more closely related to primates and is 1:09:50.640 --> 1:09:54.840 descended from an ancient Asian ape called Gigantipithecus, of which 1:09:54.880 --> 1:09:58.720 there is very little information. They have some jaws and 1:09:59.040 --> 1:10:02.760 like several her teeth, several thousand teeth, and that's it. 1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:06.600 They don't have any long bones, they don't have any 1:10:06.640 --> 1:10:10.320 anything that would really help with descriptor so some people think, okay, 1:10:10.680 --> 1:10:12.720 giganti pathagus. Look at the size of the jaw, look 1:10:12.760 --> 1:10:14.600 at the size of the teeth. This thing must have 1:10:14.640 --> 1:10:18.640 been huge. And some people say, this thing ate a 1:10:18.680 --> 1:10:23.840 lot of course grass and fibrous plants and needed a 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:26.840 big jaw and big teeth to be able to get 1:10:26.880 --> 1:10:30.479 through that kind of food, and probably wasn't that big. 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:33.519 But nobody knows. So everything, all of this stuff is 1:10:33.560 --> 1:10:37.240 just theoretical. What is the most fashionable idea in the 1:10:37.320 --> 1:10:43.000 community about what they eat? But the same stuff as bears. 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:46.639 It's very omnivorous. That's what I heard over and over again. 1:10:46.800 --> 1:10:48.519 It's like if it's if an area can support a 1:10:48.520 --> 1:10:52.280 bear population, it can support a big foot population, and 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:57.400 there then that will kill and eat meat. Um. I think, 1:10:57.479 --> 1:11:01.639 so yeah, there's a guy. Um. I own a cabin 1:11:01.720 --> 1:11:06.120 in southeast Alaska, and I bought it from a guy 1:11:06.320 --> 1:11:09.200 who bought it from a guy who bought it from 1:11:09.240 --> 1:11:14.280 a guy who had had a big foot who had 1:11:14.320 --> 1:11:19.759 found a nest Prince of Wales Island. And he found 1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:22.800 the nest because uh, he found the nest because he 1:11:22.840 --> 1:11:26.599 could smell it I've heard the bigfoot smells very bad. 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:31.040 This is actually something that's come up in Yeah, and 1:11:31.080 --> 1:11:35.200 there's rumor in that part, in those parts that this 1:11:35.200 --> 1:11:38.679 bigfoot population that exists out on this island, which creates 1:11:38.680 --> 1:11:43.040 a whole problem for it limited resources unless it's getting 1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:46.760 they got john boats. It's a huge island like it 1:11:46.800 --> 1:11:50.000 could support you know, sports, thousands and thousands of black 1:11:50.040 --> 1:11:54.360 bearris right. Um. But yeah, there's just some these folks 1:11:54.400 --> 1:11:56.559 feel that there's a sustainable a handful of people that 1:11:56.600 --> 1:11:59.360 I've run into field, there's a sustainable population of mouth 1:11:59.400 --> 1:12:03.920 there or that that that's existed over the eons. Um 1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:07.200 that they like to stick deer up in trees. I've 1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:10.080 heard that the stashed their deer up in trees. Cougars 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:13.000 do that too, though, don't they know they don't stashm trees. 1:12:13.160 --> 1:12:16.960 They don't know leopards do that. Yeah, that's true, but 1:12:17.080 --> 1:12:20.320 cougars don't. They bury him at the basis of they 1:12:20.360 --> 1:12:26.840 scratch up dirt and sticks and leaves and wedges under 1:12:27.880 --> 1:12:32.520 so they're cashing them. And you say under onto, Oh 1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:35.080 I don't. I didn't. That doesn't surprise me. But I 1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:37.519 haven't heard that. I've never heard of a mountain lion 1:12:37.640 --> 1:12:40.559 drag and deer up into a tree. We'll say this 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:42.920 and then someone's gonna have a bunch of we're gonna 1:12:42.920 --> 1:12:45.479 get You're gonna get a letter. Yeah, but leopards stash 1:12:45.520 --> 1:12:51.160 them in trees. Um, what's that going with that? Uh? 1:12:51.240 --> 1:12:55.639 You a guy had a cabin. He was a believer 1:12:55.680 --> 1:12:57.280 in the nest. But I had another thing about that. 1:12:57.400 --> 1:12:59.599 What about it? What was it? What you're talking about? 1:12:59.600 --> 1:13:02.800 The smell smell that he went by, that he located 1:13:02.800 --> 1:13:05.479 it based on its odor. Bears in here don't smell 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:08.040 very good either. Though. There was a there was a 1:13:08.040 --> 1:13:11.839 grizzly attack in the park like two years ago, Yellowstone 1:13:11.880 --> 1:13:16.960 National Park. Um, and it's actually the kid of a 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:19.120 friend of my parents, I think, and he just got 1:13:19.280 --> 1:13:22.600 ripped to shreds. Lived. But he said the things he 1:13:22.640 --> 1:13:25.800 remembers the most was how bad it smells. Yeah, I've 1:13:25.800 --> 1:13:28.200 smelled all man or bears. How do they smell? I 1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.880 haven't found it to be pleasant. No, I haven't found 1:13:30.880 --> 1:13:33.960 it to be on unpleasant ris depends what it had 1:13:34.000 --> 1:13:36.760 been into. Yeah, I guess how it depends on how 1:13:36.760 --> 1:13:39.439 close your face could have something I wouldn't be surprised 1:13:39.439 --> 1:13:41.240 that it would have something all over its fur that 1:13:41.320 --> 1:13:43.439 might smell like they don't have like a bad like 1:13:43.640 --> 1:13:47.479 like they don't have like a general odor about like 1:13:47.520 --> 1:13:52.759 a skunker. So I've heard the smell thing a number 1:13:52.800 --> 1:13:54.960 of times, and you were asking about evidence. The one 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:59.000 other thing that still sort of makes me question is 1:14:00.280 --> 1:14:02.960 the eyewitness accounts that I've heard. Some of them are 1:14:03.000 --> 1:14:07.880 just crazy. Can hold onto that because I know what 1:14:07.880 --> 1:14:09.599 we were talking about. We're talking about like the diet, 1:14:09.680 --> 1:14:12.120 So diet would be similar to a black beard. Yeah, 1:14:13.080 --> 1:14:18.000 that's the thought, and they might eat meat, fish, pretty 1:14:18.080 --> 1:14:20.120 much anything they can get their hands on. I was 1:14:20.120 --> 1:14:23.439 also told that they like fruit pies that I remember 1:14:23.479 --> 1:14:26.400 reading the thing that research or the Bigfoot researchers will 1:14:26.439 --> 1:14:30.360 try to lure move watermelons. Oh that's a new one. 1:14:30.520 --> 1:14:33.599 I'd heard like fruit pies. But my feeling is if 1:14:33.600 --> 1:14:37.440 you put a fruit pie out, you're going to get raccoons, 1:14:37.640 --> 1:14:41.200 I mean, anything anything out of the sun it campers nearby, Like, yeah, 1:14:41.439 --> 1:14:43.400 anybody who knows is going to walk in the door 1:14:43.400 --> 1:14:46.280 of the fruit pie and do anything that eats something 1:14:46.439 --> 1:14:50.720 has excrement. How do they explain the lack of that 1:14:50.960 --> 1:14:54.000 do they clean up their own droppings? Yeah, there's a 1:14:54.040 --> 1:14:58.599 theory they might bury them. Oh um, But yeah there 1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:01.320 is no. So there's a I at New York University 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:05.280 who's a molecular primatologist and he's got you know, he's 1:15:05.280 --> 1:15:08.920 an anthropologist and he works in DNA, and he does 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:11.160 not think Bigfoot is really he said, the chances are 1:15:11.160 --> 1:15:13.880 adjacent to zero. But he's one of these guys that's 1:15:13.920 --> 1:15:16.240 just fascinated by the phenomenon. And he will work with 1:15:16.280 --> 1:15:19.760 a few very select researchers if they raise the money, 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:22.439 um and send them hit their samples, he will run 1:15:22.560 --> 1:15:26.519 tests on them. And he says, I just get so 1:15:26.720 --> 1:15:29.400 much bear crap because people will send it in they'll 1:15:29.439 --> 1:15:31.160 be like I found this, and then he'll run it 1:15:31.160 --> 1:15:34.439 through the test and it's bear over and over and 1:15:34.479 --> 1:15:38.880 over again, nothing nothing different. Is it true that right 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:41.920 now someone still has a million dollar reward out for 1:15:41.960 --> 1:15:46.120 a dead Bigfoot? That's a distinct possibility. Um. There is 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:51.360 a guy named Tom Biscardi who I think put up 1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:57.600 a reward for that for a carcass. Yeah, what do 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:01.200 they feel the people you interviewed, what do they feel 1:16:01.360 --> 1:16:06.200 is happening to the big Foot? Carcasses. Um, they're scavenged. 1:16:06.439 --> 1:16:07.960 They're saying, you know, how often do you see a 1:16:08.000 --> 1:16:10.960 bear carcass in the woods, and see, I've never seen 1:16:10.960 --> 1:16:13.360 one find bear skulls, I should say all the time. 1:16:13.360 --> 1:16:17.559 But I found a bunch of bear skulls. The idea 1:16:17.880 --> 1:16:21.160 their their theory is that you don't find bodies of 1:16:21.200 --> 1:16:24.240 animals in the woods very often, that they get scavenged, 1:16:24.280 --> 1:16:27.479 that the porcupines eat the bones, that the bones get 1:16:27.520 --> 1:16:30.800 scattered as the animals, you know, it dies, It's eight 1:16:30.840 --> 1:16:35.120 hundred pounds of stinking meat and it just gets eaten up. No, 1:16:35.280 --> 1:16:39.240 that's their theory. But I have not, as someone who's 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:41.559 hiked in camped pretty much their whole life, not probably 1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:44.639 not as far into the backwoods as you've gone. In fact, 1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:48.280 I'm positive of that. UM. But I've only ever seen 1:16:48.360 --> 1:16:53.799 one dead, full dead skeleton ever. It was a deer 1:16:53.840 --> 1:16:57.800 and it was gone by three months later. But they 1:16:57.920 --> 1:17:03.759 but the but bones are capture in the paleontological record. 1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:07.200 You're like LaBrea tar pits. They are and they're not. 1:17:07.400 --> 1:17:09.800 This was actually another interesting conversation I had with a 1:17:09.800 --> 1:17:13.960 guy named Ian Tattersall, who is the UM is an 1:17:14.000 --> 1:17:16.840 anthropologist out at the American Museum of Natural History in 1:17:16.880 --> 1:17:19.680 New York, and he said, it is incredibly hard to 1:17:19.760 --> 1:17:24.920 become a fossil, but things managed to become fossil. They do. 1:17:25.320 --> 1:17:28.400 But what we have available to us is only a 1:17:28.520 --> 1:17:31.360 very small fraction of what the full fossil record is, 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:32.920 because if you think about it, you have to die 1:17:32.960 --> 1:17:35.559 in the right place, at the right time, under the 1:17:35.640 --> 1:17:38.160 right conditions. It has to be the right kind of 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:42.000 material that you're buried in, and then you have to 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:45.960 be uncovered at the right moment. And then and the 1:17:45.960 --> 1:17:48.519 the elements and the conditions can't be wearing it down, 1:17:48.640 --> 1:17:51.160 and you have to be discovered by someone. Yeah, okay, 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:57.200 it's think about this minute. We're talking about a population 1:17:57.320 --> 1:18:00.679 of give or take maybe two thousand things that weigh 1:18:00.720 --> 1:18:06.080 eight hundred pounds six hundred pounds. There is no other 1:18:06.720 --> 1:18:11.559 large mammal that exists in North America that we don't 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:15.439 find the remains of all the time. All of our 1:18:15.520 --> 1:18:19.080 large mammals get hit by cars every year. Even when 1:18:19.080 --> 1:18:23.400 you had fifty Florida panthers, when the population was as 1:18:23.439 --> 1:18:27.320 low as fifty, multiple ones would get hit on the 1:18:27.400 --> 1:18:33.200 highway every year in Florida, It's like you can't say that, 1:18:33.880 --> 1:18:37.519 you can't look someone in the eye and explain to 1:18:37.560 --> 1:18:42.120 them why that two thousand animals that have coexisted with 1:18:42.200 --> 1:18:48.880 humans here not just remember like never mind like coexisted 1:18:48.920 --> 1:18:51.160 with Native Americans for what we now know to be 1:18:51.200 --> 1:18:54.799 at least fifteen thousand, five hundred years, coexisted with euro 1:18:54.880 --> 1:18:59.479 Americans here for hundreds of years that no one's ever 1:18:59.520 --> 1:19:02.840 found a own because we find, like all of our 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:08.719 other large mammals are well established in the Palion's logical record. 1:19:09.160 --> 1:19:12.040 You got a Librea tar pit, the Librea tar pits, 1:19:13.200 --> 1:19:19.559 dozens of mammoths, hundreds of dire wolves, every creature that 1:19:19.640 --> 1:19:24.000 we know would show up there routinely. So it is 1:19:24.040 --> 1:19:26.519 a real problem to say that there is a thing 1:19:26.600 --> 1:19:29.800 that's alive right now that we don't have any bones for, 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:34.280 because the porcupine's got them all. I know the bones 1:19:34.640 --> 1:19:37.000 I know here. The one other thing that has been 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:39.960 presented to me is that the DNA analysis on a 1:19:39.960 --> 1:19:43.240 lot of bones is fairly recent. So if somebody found 1:19:43.280 --> 1:19:46.360 bones before and they ended up in a collection somewhere, 1:19:46.439 --> 1:19:49.160 they are not running. And Ian tatters All told me this, 1:19:49.280 --> 1:19:51.080 I said, you know, well, what if we've got all 1:19:51.120 --> 1:19:53.920 these you know, hominid species that we're finding, now what 1:19:54.000 --> 1:19:56.439 else is there? What have we misidentified in these collections 1:19:56.439 --> 1:19:59.760 of bones? All the museums have he said, there's no 1:20:00.040 --> 1:20:02.559 he's going back and digging through those collections because there's 1:20:02.560 --> 1:20:04.880 no glory in that. Essentially, it's like if you find 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:06.920 the new thing out in the world, that's exciting. But 1:20:06.960 --> 1:20:08.600 who wants to go back to the storeroom and be 1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:11.320 the guy sorting through the bones and running analysis on those. 1:20:11.840 --> 1:20:14.599 Maybe someone's like, man, it's supposed a pound person, yeah, 1:20:14.880 --> 1:20:16.960 or like a you know, this is a weird bare 1:20:17.000 --> 1:20:19.040 bone and then it ends up in some locker somewhere 1:20:19.040 --> 1:20:21.439 and nobody ever does anything with it. I'm not saying 1:20:21.479 --> 1:20:23.880 that that's the case, but I think that, you know, 1:20:23.960 --> 1:20:32.760 people will find reasons to make this creature real. Yeah. Uh, 1:20:32.920 --> 1:20:37.920 can we talk about sightings? Yeah? And I bet you will. 1:20:38.160 --> 1:20:39.599 I want to get around. It's like a wild You're 1:20:39.600 --> 1:20:41.960 going to get letters about this. I want to get around. 1:20:42.400 --> 1:20:48.760 Let's um. I heard. These are actually the hardest thing 1:20:48.800 --> 1:20:51.320 for me to throw out because some of the people 1:20:51.360 --> 1:20:54.719 I talked to or you know, thirty year US Forest 1:20:54.760 --> 1:20:58.479 Service fishing game BLM Like they're outside all the time, 1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:03.160 familiar with wildlife, familiar with the ecosystems that they're in, 1:21:03.680 --> 1:21:07.280 and then they see something that completely alters their view 1:21:07.600 --> 1:21:13.960 of wildlife out there and their beliefs. Yeah, their beliefs, 1:21:14.080 --> 1:21:16.800 And it's hard for me to throw that out because 1:21:16.840 --> 1:21:19.919 they clearly had an experience that shook them. Whether it's bigfoot, 1:21:20.000 --> 1:21:21.680 I don't know. I wasn't there, I didn't see it, 1:21:21.720 --> 1:21:23.479 I wasn't part of it, but it clearly is something 1:21:23.520 --> 1:21:26.320 that has just rocked them to their core. Did you 1:21:26.360 --> 1:21:28.439 talk to a lot of people who had I witness accounts? 1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:30.639 Can you tell me about a couple, Tell me about 1:21:30.640 --> 1:21:32.439 a couple of the ones that's like surprised you where 1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:34.679 you're like, wow, this seems like a sane, rational pers 1:21:35.000 --> 1:21:36.720 So one of them came from a guy named John 1:21:36.760 --> 1:21:41.560 mayan Zinski. He is um. He lives down in Wyoming, 1:21:41.680 --> 1:21:45.120 in Atlantic City. If you know where that is, Atlantic City, Wyoming, Yeah, No, 1:21:45.160 --> 1:21:47.800 I don't, teeny tiny, it's sort of it's not far 1:21:47.840 --> 1:21:51.920 from Pinedale. Yeah, all civilization you'll ever need. According to 1:21:51.960 --> 1:21:58.720 their sign um, he was working for must have been 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:01.640 the Forest Service at the time, and it was his 1:22:01.680 --> 1:22:04.200 turn to go out and run this sort of scouting thing. 1:22:04.200 --> 1:22:07.559 They were doing research on big horn sheeps sheep, not sheeps, 1:22:08.280 --> 1:22:12.679 big feats um And he went in, got his gear 1:22:12.800 --> 1:22:15.280 from the depot and grabbed his stuff and then headed 1:22:15.320 --> 1:22:17.240 out into the woods. And on the way out the door, 1:22:17.400 --> 1:22:20.120 this guy yells to him, hey, I spilled baking grease 1:22:20.160 --> 1:22:23.320 on that tent. Just f y I. So he goes 1:22:23.360 --> 1:22:30.479 out and wyoming um a open well not all of it. 1:22:30.520 --> 1:22:34.040 There's forests over there. It's pretty air and open. I 1:22:34.040 --> 1:22:38.240 think he was in the winds um and he was 1:22:38.680 --> 1:22:41.960 camped out there in the forest somewhere and had gone 1:22:41.960 --> 1:22:43.600 to sleep and then woke up to the sound of 1:22:43.640 --> 1:22:46.160 something breathing, and for a while I thought it was 1:22:46.160 --> 1:22:48.000 a bear, And then he said it sounded different from 1:22:48.000 --> 1:22:50.800 a bear. It sounded like maybe a sick bear. And 1:22:50.840 --> 1:22:52.680 then whatever it was kind of came up to the 1:22:52.680 --> 1:22:56.040 tent and pushed its its basin. He thought, right where 1:22:56.040 --> 1:22:58.360 that baking grease spot is. And he's like, well, damn, 1:22:58.360 --> 1:23:01.160 it's a bear. So he like yells and like wax 1:23:01.200 --> 1:23:03.599 it on the nose to try and scare it off, 1:23:04.080 --> 1:23:07.520 and it runs off back behind the sort of um 1:23:08.240 --> 1:23:10.040 the dog hair pines that were on the edge of 1:23:10.080 --> 1:23:14.080 his camp, and he hears it breathing again. Then it 1:23:14.080 --> 1:23:16.000 comes back a second time. It does the same thing, 1:23:16.560 --> 1:23:18.559 and he does that, hits it again, and it comes 1:23:18.600 --> 1:23:21.280 back a third time, and this time it seems like 1:23:21.280 --> 1:23:23.560 it's over top of the tent because he can silhouette 1:23:23.640 --> 1:23:26.040 see it silhouetted over the top. The moon was full, 1:23:26.640 --> 1:23:29.080 and he thinks it's holding onto the lodge pole pine 1:23:29.360 --> 1:23:33.960 above his tent, and he's standing there kind of are 1:23:33.960 --> 1:23:35.439 He's sitting in the tent trying to figure out what 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:37.000 he's gonna do to sort of scare this thing off. 1:23:37.040 --> 1:23:40.160 And then another face sort of presses itself into the 1:23:40.160 --> 1:23:44.040 bacon grease stain, and he's like, well, it's a mama 1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:46.200 bear in her cub Like this is the worst possible 1:23:46.200 --> 1:23:48.880 situation to be in, but he wants to sort of 1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:51.200 like get them away from the tent, so he wax 1:23:51.240 --> 1:23:54.280 it again, and this time it's not soft like a nose, 1:23:54.520 --> 1:23:58.920 it's like rock hard, and it's whatever this thing is. 1:23:58.960 --> 1:24:00.880 He throws it off. It's b elens and it comes 1:24:00.960 --> 1:24:03.840 crashing down onto the tent. He's getting out of the 1:24:03.840 --> 1:24:05.720 tent and trying to wiggle his way out of it, 1:24:05.760 --> 1:24:07.880 and then the thing takes off and it's big, that's 1:24:07.880 --> 1:24:10.879 all he can tell. And it's hiding behind these pines 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:13.080 on the edge of camp, and he's sitting by the 1:24:13.120 --> 1:24:15.200 fire with a blanket over him and his forty five 1:24:15.240 --> 1:24:18.160 in his lap and just thinking, what the hell is 1:24:18.240 --> 1:24:22.120 this thing? And then whatever it is starts lobbing pine 1:24:22.160 --> 1:24:26.920 cones at him and lobbs thirty forty pine cones, and 1:24:27.000 --> 1:24:29.040 he's not in any hurry to get away from the fire, 1:24:29.920 --> 1:24:32.000 and then the thing kind of just shovels off. And 1:24:32.000 --> 1:24:33.840 the next morning he gets up and he looks to 1:24:33.840 --> 1:24:36.960 see if there's any footprints or you know, bare tracks 1:24:37.040 --> 1:24:39.559 or anything like that, and there's too much pine stuff 1:24:39.640 --> 1:24:42.559 so he can't see what it is. So he goes, 1:24:42.880 --> 1:24:46.920 gets up his stuff, goes back into UM the station 1:24:47.720 --> 1:24:50.439 and tells his boss about it. And it's it's his 1:24:50.479 --> 1:24:52.040 boss who says, I think you might have had a 1:24:52.040 --> 1:24:55.600 big foot encounter, because apparently there's been a bunch of 1:24:55.600 --> 1:24:58.960 people who had reported something similar UM in that area 1:24:59.000 --> 1:25:02.240 over the past you months. And this is a guy 1:25:02.280 --> 1:25:05.200 who worked on the Lunar Exploration module in the sixties, 1:25:05.320 --> 1:25:08.040 when he was like, you know, a graduate student or 1:25:08.040 --> 1:25:12.560 an undergrad in college. He'd worked in fish and wildlife, 1:25:12.560 --> 1:25:18.880 he'd worked with BLM. He's very soft spoken, he's not grandstanding. Um, 1:25:18.920 --> 1:25:24.040 just like rational, Like he's just like the kind of 1:25:24.080 --> 1:25:27.280 guy that he just was so down to earth. And 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:30.559 he tells you the story and you're just like, what 1:25:30.600 --> 1:25:32.000 was it? And he's like, I still don't you know 1:25:32.200 --> 1:25:34.040 to this day, I still don't know. Hit me with 1:25:34.080 --> 1:25:40.360 another one. Okay, I go comment. You got to listen 1:25:40.400 --> 1:25:43.120 to episode four. They're full of them. Um. Another guy 1:25:43.200 --> 1:25:45.720 talked to was a guy named Derek Randalls who is 1:25:46.120 --> 1:25:48.680 up in the Olympic Peninsula and he's actually one of 1:25:48.720 --> 1:25:51.439 the best. Yeah, and he is one of the founders 1:25:51.439 --> 1:25:54.160 of the Olympic Project because of an experience he had 1:25:54.160 --> 1:25:57.519 in the eighties where he'd gone out camping. He was back. 1:25:57.560 --> 1:25:59.000 They were in the back country, he and a couple 1:25:59.040 --> 1:26:03.600 of friends, and um, they were setting up they were 1:26:03.640 --> 1:26:05.559 getting ready to set up camp on this sort of 1:26:05.640 --> 1:26:09.439 ridgeline maybe a quarter mile half mile off the trail 1:26:09.479 --> 1:26:13.720 that they've taken up, and something started throwing rocks at them. First, 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:15.280 they were all coming into the right of them and 1:26:15.320 --> 1:26:16.920 then they were all coming into the left and then 1:26:16.920 --> 1:26:18.880 they could hear this thing sort of coming through the 1:26:18.880 --> 1:26:21.840 trees at him, and they all flipped out, grabbed up 1:26:21.880 --> 1:26:24.120 their packs and like took off down the trail. And 1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:28.600 then Derek remembered he had a gun in his bag, um, 1:26:28.680 --> 1:26:31.439 and so he you know, pulled off the pack, pulled 1:26:31.439 --> 1:26:33.920 out the gun, and then he saw this things standing 1:26:33.960 --> 1:26:37.519 in the trees just staring at him. And I asked him, well, 1:26:37.560 --> 1:26:40.599 what was it? And he said it was eight feet tall. 1:26:40.880 --> 1:26:45.360 It was just absolutely enormous, and he just said, just 1:26:45.400 --> 1:26:48.200 scared the Jesus out of him. And these are the 1:26:48.280 --> 1:26:50.120 kinds of stories I heard where people were kind of 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:51.840 out doing their own thing. They're used to being in 1:26:51.840 --> 1:26:54.600 the wilderness, they grew up being outside. They're not the 1:26:54.640 --> 1:26:56.519 kind of people who are going to be easily startled 1:26:56.560 --> 1:27:00.599 by the animals and the things that they see out there, 1:27:00.640 --> 1:27:06.080 and this just really changes everything for them. Do you 1:27:06.640 --> 1:27:13.559 you have a background as a journalist. You are a journalist, Um, 1:27:13.720 --> 1:27:20.760 why is it that journalists what is it about journalists 1:27:20.920 --> 1:27:31.200 attraction to people who believe in Bigfoot? Like I'm obviously 1:27:31.240 --> 1:27:33.720 part of this. I'm wanting to talk to you because 1:27:33.720 --> 1:27:35.600 this is like, like for me to talk about it, 1:27:35.640 --> 1:27:37.479 I gotta talk about it to someone like you. For 1:27:37.520 --> 1:27:38.920 you to talk about you want to talk about to 1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:41.160 the actual people who I have more of a difficult time. 1:27:41.240 --> 1:27:43.439 You need to have a little bit of you. I 1:27:43.560 --> 1:27:45.720 like the buffer because I can because I can just 1:27:45.760 --> 1:27:48.120 get the questions that I have answered better if there's 1:27:48.160 --> 1:27:52.600 like a layer between that. But but why do journalists 1:27:52.640 --> 1:27:56.400 like the story? Well? I think part of it is 1:27:56.439 --> 1:27:58.639 it is it is a colorful story, no matter how 1:27:58.680 --> 1:28:01.880 you slice it, like, there is a lot of color 1:28:01.960 --> 1:28:05.200 to this. There was a you know, last fall, there 1:28:05.320 --> 1:28:08.040 was a well this fall, it is still fall. There 1:28:08.120 --> 1:28:12.280 was a Bigfoot festival held in North Carolina and probably 1:28:12.439 --> 1:28:17.320 six different North Carolina, every state, every state but every 1:28:17.320 --> 1:28:23.160 state in Hawaii. UM, there was probably like six or 1:28:23.160 --> 1:28:26.120 seven journalism outfits that showed up there because it's you know, 1:28:26.280 --> 1:28:29.280 it's you know, it's it's zany, and it's you're going 1:28:29.360 --> 1:28:32.280 to talk to characters. It's going to be interesting and 1:28:32.360 --> 1:28:38.000 you know, especially I think right well, anytime, any time 1:28:38.040 --> 1:28:41.000 when the news is difficult and hard to swallow and 1:28:41.000 --> 1:28:44.920 there's a lot of hard things going on, you're looking 1:28:44.920 --> 1:28:50.760 for stories that will get people interested, but won't necessarily 1:28:51.200 --> 1:28:56.600 turn into like a political knife fight. Um. And I 1:28:56.640 --> 1:29:00.680 will say bigfoot is a fairly universal topic. I you know, 1:29:00.880 --> 1:29:03.400 aside from my accountant who there's only and you who 1:29:03.479 --> 1:29:08.720 hates bigfoot. Um, there's been I have not had a 1:29:08.760 --> 1:29:12.040 conversation yet with anyone who's not. First they'll like laugh 1:29:12.120 --> 1:29:13.880 or they'll kind of joke about it and be like, oh, 1:29:13.920 --> 1:29:15.919 this is dumb, but then they have all these questions. 1:29:17.080 --> 1:29:20.559 So yeah, yeah, So there's something about bigfoot that people 1:29:20.800 --> 1:29:25.120 do find appealing, and then journalists are among them. There's 1:29:25.120 --> 1:29:27.560 the thing I've talked about a bunch. I need to 1:29:27.560 --> 1:29:29.479 go like reread it to make sure I'm getting it right. 1:29:29.560 --> 1:29:32.719 But no doubt you're familiar with the writer Joan Didion. 1:29:34.680 --> 1:29:39.000 Early it's early in Slouching towards Bethlehem or early in 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:45.240 the White album. I think it's early in Slouching towards Bethlehem. Um, 1:29:45.280 --> 1:29:49.960 she talks about away in which people and this is 1:29:50.040 --> 1:29:52.760 she's writing pre Internet. Okay, so she brought this before 1:29:52.760 --> 1:29:55.040 the Internet came out. But she's talking about a way 1:29:55.040 --> 1:30:01.760 in which people rebel against information. I'm paraphrasing what she's 1:30:01.760 --> 1:30:06.480 saying but there's people who as information becomes so available 1:30:08.040 --> 1:30:10.920 and we know about so much and we can find 1:30:10.960 --> 1:30:14.439 out about so much, there's a way to rebel against 1:30:14.560 --> 1:30:23.280 information by like tenaciously grabbing ontos and myths and conspiracies 1:30:23.720 --> 1:30:26.640 because it gives you a sense of knowing something that 1:30:26.760 --> 1:30:31.200 everyone else just can't see. This thing that like I 1:30:31.360 --> 1:30:35.000 know the truth, I'm special, I'm inside, I'm I'm aware, 1:30:35.040 --> 1:30:36.920 and all the rest of you people are not aware. 1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:39.960 And that gets that that's the conspiracy theory thing too. 1:30:40.000 --> 1:30:41.680 I think that just gets taken to the sort of 1:30:42.040 --> 1:30:44.880 a very extreme level. But it's this idea that somehow 1:30:44.960 --> 1:30:46.920 I have knowledge about things that you don't and that 1:30:46.960 --> 1:30:51.000 makes me special. Yeah, you're rebelling against widely held information 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:53.599 to become that like you know the truth but no 1:30:53.600 --> 1:30:56.040 one can see it. And it's like a type of 1:30:56.080 --> 1:31:01.599 mind frame or it's a mindset. Yeah, And I find 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:04.320 that mindset in your in the time you spent with 1:31:04.320 --> 1:31:10.400 big Foot believers. Yeah, I mean, I think you know, 1:31:10.520 --> 1:31:12.160 I've I've found that in a lot of the different 1:31:12.200 --> 1:31:14.400 people that I've ended up talking to over the course 1:31:14.439 --> 1:31:18.160 of my journalism careers. People like to feel like somehow 1:31:18.200 --> 1:31:20.960 they have knowledge somehow they're different, somehow they stand out, 1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:29.320 somehow they're they're able to separate themselves from what society 1:31:29.400 --> 1:31:31.519 is trying to make you do, or what the government's 1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:33.760 trying to tell you to do, or what you know 1:31:34.040 --> 1:31:40.040 conventional wisdom is um. The part I've never understood is 1:31:40.160 --> 1:31:47.200 why why is there that need to feel special? I mean, 1:31:47.240 --> 1:31:50.120 we all have it, I think, and to some degree, 1:31:50.240 --> 1:31:53.240 pretty much everybody wants to feel like they're an individual. 1:31:53.280 --> 1:31:55.599 They're different, they're not just thinking things because someone has 1:31:55.640 --> 1:31:58.599 told them to think those things. But yeah, where where 1:31:58.640 --> 1:32:01.280 that comes from, I don't know. Is the bigfoot world 1:32:01.320 --> 1:32:05.040 predominantly male? I expected it to be more male than 1:32:05.080 --> 1:32:07.280 it was. There were quite a few women, And actually 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:09.040 next summer I've been invited to go on an all 1:32:09.120 --> 1:32:12.439 women's month long Bigfoot expedition. You can do it, I'm 1:32:12.439 --> 1:32:13.960 gonna do. I think I'll probably go on part of 1:32:14.000 --> 1:32:17.120 it because there was some women I met before really nice. 1:32:17.160 --> 1:32:18.720 And part of what they really want to do is 1:32:18.760 --> 1:32:21.240 they just want to educate people about being outside too. 1:32:21.400 --> 1:32:24.759 Like you know that screaming sound is not a bigfoot, 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:27.519 that is an owl. You know that this is how 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:30.320 you set up a proper camp like. Part of it 1:32:30.400 --> 1:32:34.439 is wilderness education in some ways, which is part of 1:32:34.479 --> 1:32:36.479 the reason I think I also like Bigfoot is because 1:32:36.479 --> 1:32:38.680 it's I don't know, I'd rather have people go out 1:32:38.680 --> 1:32:42.120 look for bigfoot than play video games. I think that's 1:32:42.120 --> 1:32:44.800 a more valuable use of your time. When you were 1:32:44.840 --> 1:32:48.479 doing your research for your podcast series, tell us a 1:32:48.560 --> 1:32:50.160 name of the podcast series. We want to hit it 1:32:50.240 --> 1:32:56.000 multiple times. Wild thing singular, two words, two words singular. 1:32:56.720 --> 1:33:00.479 When you were doing the research, did you came into 1:33:00.479 --> 1:33:06.439 it thinking it was Holcomb did you evacillate through your 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:09.320 journey a little bit? Like the first time I saw 1:33:09.360 --> 1:33:11.280 those nests, I was like, this is weird, Like this 1:33:11.360 --> 1:33:13.599 is not something I've seen before. And you know, again, 1:33:13.680 --> 1:33:15.559 I do not have the level of expertise that you 1:33:15.560 --> 1:33:17.160 guys have with being out in the woods. But I 1:33:17.200 --> 1:33:21.440 grew up in Idaho camping and hiking and being outside, 1:33:22.160 --> 1:33:24.320 and this was not like something I had seen before. 1:33:25.280 --> 1:33:28.479 And then you would hear someone would show you. They'd 1:33:28.479 --> 1:33:30.559 be like, oh, I've got a picture of a bigfoot footprint. 1:33:30.560 --> 1:33:32.400 You gotta see it, and you get your hopes up. 1:33:32.400 --> 1:33:34.080 You'd be like, this is going to be it, and 1:33:34.080 --> 1:33:37.320 it would look like a puddle and you're like, oh, 1:33:37.360 --> 1:33:39.679 that's nothing. So that you know, there was a lot 1:33:39.720 --> 1:33:41.880 of kind of this back and forth, and especially like 1:33:41.920 --> 1:33:45.160 I said, when I heard those stories from people, those 1:33:45.520 --> 1:33:47.599 those were hurt for me to dismiss because it's hard 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:49.760 to say to someone you didn't see that, like you're 1:33:49.800 --> 1:33:53.200 just making stuff up like that. They just wasn't that 1:33:53.280 --> 1:33:57.080 kind of situation? Did you? Did you find yourself needing 1:33:57.160 --> 1:34:00.639 to act like you were more or of a believer 1:34:00.720 --> 1:34:05.120 than you were? Um? I mean I when I went 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:07.360 into this, and no matter where I went, I made 1:34:07.360 --> 1:34:09.479 it very clear, I'm going coming into this as an 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:12.320 objective observer. You know, tell me what your experience has been, 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:15.720 tell me what you've seen, tell me about your evidence. 1:34:16.080 --> 1:34:18.800 But I haven't made up my mind one way or 1:34:19.160 --> 1:34:22.439 or the other. Would the people you talk to feel 1:34:22.520 --> 1:34:27.680 that it was a betrayal that you right now? You know, 1:34:28.360 --> 1:34:29.800 like the way we like to put it, if God 1:34:29.920 --> 1:34:35.839 can put a gun to your head and said it's Bigfoot, 1:34:35.880 --> 1:34:42.600 real or fake, you'd say fake in this situation, right, yeah? 1:34:42.840 --> 1:34:45.360 Would they feel like it's a betrayal that you that 1:34:45.400 --> 1:34:48.200 you would say that now? Is there like is there 1:34:48.240 --> 1:34:50.280 like a code of honor here where you're supposed to 1:34:50.320 --> 1:34:53.040 believe when you're in the community. No, I don't think so, 1:34:53.160 --> 1:34:55.160 because I would ask questions. I asked people a lot 1:34:55.200 --> 1:34:57.360 of questions, you know, and I asked them to like, 1:34:57.439 --> 1:34:59.439 how can you keep going out day after day or 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:01.160 year after are and look for this thing when there 1:35:01.200 --> 1:35:04.760 is so little, when there is no physical evidence, And 1:35:04.760 --> 1:35:06.920 they say, you know, sometimes it's hard, But I just 1:35:07.439 --> 1:35:09.360 I really think it's out there. Like I think they 1:35:09.479 --> 1:35:12.000 understand too, that what they have is very tenuous. There 1:35:12.000 --> 1:35:14.880 are peeples, some people who are adamant that there is proof, 1:35:15.479 --> 1:35:20.599 but a lot of people I think are quite shaky 1:35:20.640 --> 1:35:23.320 on it. But it's something that they want. Do they 1:35:23.360 --> 1:35:25.679 feel protective of it, Like let's just say for a minute, 1:35:26.240 --> 1:35:29.880 let's say from it. All of a sudden, uh, one 1:35:29.920 --> 1:35:33.719 gets hit by a car. Okay, he's crossing I five, 1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:37.920 you know where it runs up through Washington and it's 1:35:37.960 --> 1:35:43.080 like down in l Am he's migrating eastward, He's like, 1:35:44.240 --> 1:35:49.800 and Wyoming has him. There's gotta be some genetic exchange that, 1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:51.960 I mean, there can't be a thriving population of Wyoming 1:35:53.120 --> 1:35:58.120 they migrate. He's had an East Peninsula gets hit on 1:35:58.280 --> 1:36:01.760 hit on the Highway. It's a pregnant theme. Wh right 1:36:02.000 --> 1:36:05.280 gets rich, right pregnant female. Also, it's like, wow, they 1:36:05.280 --> 1:36:09.240 were right with the people you met, Uh, would they 1:36:09.240 --> 1:36:13.800 be like great? And then the inn the real scientific 1:36:13.840 --> 1:36:16.280 community comes in and it becomes this whole thing. Would 1:36:16.360 --> 1:36:18.880 would it lose its luster? I think there's an element 1:36:18.880 --> 1:36:22.880 of that. Um. I think there is some recognition that 1:36:23.000 --> 1:36:29.200 if Bigfoot was emphatically proved to be a real species, 1:36:30.160 --> 1:36:35.679 that your your citizens saschologists, you're you're amateur bigfooters, they're 1:36:35.680 --> 1:36:38.439 gonna get kind of cut out of the cut out 1:36:38.479 --> 1:36:41.479 of the game, because, yeah, because it's gonna be government 1:36:41.560 --> 1:36:47.280 scientists and you know, primatologists from all the finest research institutions, 1:36:47.400 --> 1:36:49.519 and all these forests are going to be off limits, 1:36:49.720 --> 1:36:51.680 and you know, all of a sudden it's going to 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:55.559 be it's gonna be a very different thing if that 1:36:55.600 --> 1:37:01.120 were to happen. And I imagine I'm sure they've thought 1:37:01.160 --> 1:37:03.759 about the fact that if Bigfoot is in fact proved 1:37:03.760 --> 1:37:07.479 to be real, then what what do you do? Then 1:37:08.880 --> 1:37:10.320 you're not gonna be able to pursue it with the 1:37:10.360 --> 1:37:16.320 same abandon Are you familiar with the comedian Joe Rogan. Yes, 1:37:17.640 --> 1:37:21.439 Joe feels that he spends he spent some time looking 1:37:21.479 --> 1:37:24.720 at similar to you, but from it from a comedian perspective, 1:37:25.560 --> 1:37:27.840 digging into the world. I don't want to use the 1:37:27.840 --> 1:37:29.800 word that he used, but he used the word that 1:37:29.880 --> 1:37:37.280 like he found that bigfoot researchers are um white men 1:37:37.400 --> 1:37:41.439 that people would not want to make love too. Oh 1:37:41.560 --> 1:37:47.640 that's me. Yeah. He had a term like, I'm I 1:37:48.160 --> 1:37:51.960 can guess um that there was that that there's like, uh, 1:37:52.520 --> 1:37:55.120 there's a sort of that that there's a sort of 1:37:55.160 --> 1:37:58.759 pulling away from that there's a sort of pulling away 1:37:58.840 --> 1:38:02.519 from the normal ext changes and and things that make 1:38:02.600 --> 1:38:06.559 up our lives among this community. I didn't feel that, honestly, No. 1:38:06.880 --> 1:38:08.560 I mean I thought I thought it was actually a 1:38:08.640 --> 1:38:12.080 very robust social community. Like everything I went to was 1:38:12.120 --> 1:38:14.240 like a big family reunion and people would come in 1:38:14.280 --> 1:38:18.719 from all over and they were buddies and know. Yeah, 1:38:18.840 --> 1:38:21.680 I mean I think in any group, I don't know. 1:38:21.840 --> 1:38:25.360 That just seems kind of mean to me. He's a comedian, 1:38:25.920 --> 1:38:28.760 like he's like, okay, you know. He also made a 1:38:28.840 --> 1:38:30.880 joke that like, why is no one mad at Bob 1:38:30.960 --> 1:38:35.000 Marley for having shot a sheriff. It's a good question, right, 1:38:35.040 --> 1:38:38.800 He's just he's just he's a comedian. Yeah. Um, I 1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:41.120 specifically went in with the idea that I didn't want 1:38:41.160 --> 1:38:44.200 to be making fun of people and being mean. Um. 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:46.160 I can see his point. But there's a lot of 1:38:46.160 --> 1:38:50.960 subcultures in American society that are filled with a similar descriptor. 1:38:51.720 --> 1:38:54.479 Like I think you can I think it's unfair to 1:38:54.520 --> 1:38:57.600 just be like, oh, big bigfoot people are not the 1:38:57.640 --> 1:38:59.599 kind of people you'd want to have a relationship with. 1:38:59.840 --> 1:39:02.360 You know, I'm not gonna say anything else because I 1:39:02.360 --> 1:39:04.920 don't want to get hate mail. But sure there's a 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:07.639 lot of there's a lot of subcultures that are filled 1:39:07.680 --> 1:39:10.880 with people you might not consider conventionally attractive or interesting 1:39:11.160 --> 1:39:15.479 or socially adept. I mean Silicon valleys like loaded with them. Yeah, 1:39:15.520 --> 1:39:16.760 I bet you know. A lot of people would say 1:39:16.760 --> 1:39:20.719 the exact same thing about hunters. Yeah, big game hunters, 1:39:22.560 --> 1:39:25.840 but a broad, broad stroke of folks. It wasn't like 1:39:25.840 --> 1:39:30.760 a particular demographic that you found white largely white, some 1:39:30.880 --> 1:39:33.320 Native American. But I would say that that like if 1:39:33.320 --> 1:39:36.960 you had to do a demographic term for it, it's 1:39:37.240 --> 1:39:40.519 this is a whider phenomenon. Yeah, and I don't think 1:39:40.520 --> 1:39:46.720 there's too much you really read into that accident, communityographics, demographics, distribution, 1:39:47.080 --> 1:39:49.960 rural and the pet kinds of people who are going 1:39:50.000 --> 1:39:51.120 to be out in the woods. To begin with, I 1:39:51.120 --> 1:39:53.080 actually had a really long conversation with a woman named 1:39:53.160 --> 1:39:56.800 rue Map who started a group called Outdoor AFRO, which 1:39:56.840 --> 1:39:59.200 is to get more African Americans comfortable with going out 1:39:59.280 --> 1:40:00.880 into the woods. And she and I had a big 1:40:00.920 --> 1:40:03.800 conversation about this, and she said, look, you know, up 1:40:03.880 --> 1:40:09.120 until very very recently, for black and for African Americans 1:40:09.160 --> 1:40:12.280 to be outside in the woods that was that was 1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:15.640 a sketchy proposition, not because of bears or cougars, but 1:40:15.680 --> 1:40:18.960 because of like other things that would could potentially cause 1:40:19.000 --> 1:40:21.840 a lot of harm. So you know, it's it's all 1:40:23.320 --> 1:40:25.760 it's relative on who's going to be out in the 1:40:25.760 --> 1:40:29.200 woods and and doing those kinds of things to begin with. Yeah, No, 1:40:29.320 --> 1:40:31.200 I don't read I don't read a bunch into that one. 1:40:32.280 --> 1:40:34.600 Is there things that, uh are the things that I 1:40:34.640 --> 1:40:36.479 haven't asked you about that you wish I was going 1:40:36.560 --> 1:40:39.040 to ask you about? Just do those things for a minute, 1:40:42.439 --> 1:40:45.960 state the question within your answer statement, question within my 1:40:46.080 --> 1:40:48.799 answer like things that I really ought to know about, 1:40:50.120 --> 1:40:51.720 like things you were dying to talk about that we 1:40:51.720 --> 1:40:53.559 didn't touch on. I feel like we got to a 1:40:53.560 --> 1:40:55.080 lot of it. I think the one thing I do 1:40:55.160 --> 1:40:56.839 kind of want to talk about is what the appeal 1:40:56.920 --> 1:40:59.639 comes from, Like why people do want Bigfoot to be real? Okay, 1:40:59.680 --> 1:41:02.080 so not you as a journalist, I know. I actually yeah, 1:41:02.120 --> 1:41:04.679 me too. This also gets to why I want Bigfoot 1:41:04.680 --> 1:41:09.320 to be real, because my feeling is is, um if 1:41:09.320 --> 1:41:11.800 you can't imagine the possibility of Bigfoot, if you can't 1:41:11.800 --> 1:41:16.680 imagine a landscape that's like wild enough and and can 1:41:16.800 --> 1:41:19.680 that they can hold something like Bigfoot, that everything is 1:41:19.680 --> 1:41:23.320 already so mapped out and pruned and paved and like, uh, 1:41:23.320 --> 1:41:26.120 you know, it's all on Google Maps, it kind of 1:41:26.120 --> 1:41:29.000 sucks the magic out a little bit, Like there's something 1:41:30.120 --> 1:41:32.080 I don't want to talk about magical Bigfoot, but there 1:41:32.160 --> 1:41:35.679 is something magical about Bigfoot, about something like a creature 1:41:35.720 --> 1:41:39.720 that's clever enough to elude us, that can exist in 1:41:39.760 --> 1:41:43.240 this wilderness out there that has a lot of appeal. 1:41:44.400 --> 1:41:46.400 I hadn't thought of it in that way that it's 1:41:46.439 --> 1:41:51.120 a belief, that it's a belief in wilderness when you 1:41:51.160 --> 1:41:53.120 say that to me, I haven't thought about it. But 1:41:53.240 --> 1:41:57.400 what comes to my mind pretty quickly is that right now, 1:41:57.880 --> 1:42:02.920 in pondering wildlife and pondering wilderness, I think that realism 1:42:02.960 --> 1:42:09.519 is real important. I think that that that instead of 1:42:09.720 --> 1:42:14.840 exaggerating its potential, it's really important right now to look 1:42:14.880 --> 1:42:20.040 at it as a finite thing that is there because 1:42:20.080 --> 1:42:23.800 we're making a commitment to having it there, and that 1:42:23.960 --> 1:42:28.800 it's not this unknown, unconquered thing. That's something that we 1:42:29.680 --> 1:42:33.719 get and we can count it down to the acre 1:42:33.960 --> 1:42:38.200 and we can watch it vanish, and it is not 1:42:38.880 --> 1:42:41.920 like anything that fosters this idea of it, And it's 1:42:41.920 --> 1:42:44.679 the thing you find, you know, the thing you find 1:42:44.720 --> 1:42:47.320 often with people who I would call it, people like 1:42:47.320 --> 1:42:51.280 like outsiders or people who are not accustomed to being 1:42:51.320 --> 1:42:54.280 in wilderness thinking about wilderness. But they look at I 1:42:54.400 --> 1:42:57.479 sometimes think that they have a naive perspective about what 1:42:57.520 --> 1:43:02.200 its potentials are. You know that it could that what 1:43:02.280 --> 1:43:07.639 we have left could harbor a six hundred pound primate. 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:13.040 You're like, it's not like that anymore. Man, We're down 1:43:13.040 --> 1:43:15.519 to the last little nubbing. He even used the term 1:43:15.680 --> 1:43:20.679 vast anymore in in our wilderness is almost a stretch, right, 1:43:21.360 --> 1:43:25.280 But isn't that kind of depressing with people using vast 1:43:25.520 --> 1:43:27.680 when they know what the relative picture they're trying to 1:43:27.720 --> 1:43:32.160 present is, Like, I use it too, but to be that, um, 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:34.840 I think it almost like over sells where we're at 1:43:34.920 --> 1:43:38.640 right now. That it could hide the greatest tap that 1:43:38.720 --> 1:43:43.160 ever lived. Yeah, that it could hide two thousand because 1:43:43.200 --> 1:43:45.759 look at what's going on with the with the giant gorilla. 1:43:46.400 --> 1:43:51.599 H go on, tell me about the jan guerrilla. They're vanishing. 1:43:52.560 --> 1:43:57.840 You're talking about the girls in Africa silver backs. There's 1:43:57.920 --> 1:44:00.240 very few. They vanished. We find them dead all time. 1:44:00.720 --> 1:44:05.120 There's no mystery there. There was a mystery for a 1:44:05.200 --> 1:44:07.080 very long time. Now, for thousands of years, there was 1:44:07.720 --> 1:44:12.040 a mystery around panda bears. And species do crop up 1:44:12.080 --> 1:44:13.680 from time to time, although they tend to be more 1:44:13.720 --> 1:44:18.200 ocean species than Yeah. I even read for a while 1:44:18.320 --> 1:44:21.320 someone was comparing the hunt for Bigfoot with the hunt 1:44:21.360 --> 1:44:25.639 for the giant squid. Okay, and here's the giant squid man, 1:44:25.680 --> 1:44:29.479 a very mysterious thing lives deep in the darkest zones 1:44:29.520 --> 1:44:34.920 of the oceans. It was a mythological creature. But now 1:44:35.000 --> 1:44:39.479 and then, now and then every now and then one 1:44:39.520 --> 1:44:41.519 of them sons of bitches washes up on the beach 1:44:43.920 --> 1:44:47.160 and there it is. And then you gotta wrestle with 1:44:47.200 --> 1:44:50.720 the fact that there it is. I'm not saying that 1:44:50.760 --> 1:44:54.720 it's a logical belief, but I think that it does 1:44:54.840 --> 1:44:57.960 touch on something that's important to humans, and important has 1:44:57.960 --> 1:44:59.760 been important for a long time to tell me that 1:45:00.360 --> 1:45:03.760 this idea that something outside the campfire ring, the thing 1:45:03.920 --> 1:45:07.400 lurking in the woods, that maybe we're not in control, 1:45:07.479 --> 1:45:11.240 that maybe we're not the toughest species out there on 1:45:11.240 --> 1:45:15.880 the planet. That maybe you know, you like, well, at 1:45:15.960 --> 1:45:18.120 least most people I know sort of like that that 1:45:18.240 --> 1:45:22.639 thrilled down the back of their spine and a little 1:45:22.640 --> 1:45:27.799 sense of mystery and a little sense of of the unknown. 1:45:27.880 --> 1:45:30.400 And even if that is not the reality anymore, people 1:45:30.439 --> 1:45:34.680 still want that. But why can't they be Maybe this 1:45:34.720 --> 1:45:39.160 is my right. Why can't they be happy and inspired 1:45:39.240 --> 1:45:42.000 by what is there? I think a lot of them are, 1:45:42.200 --> 1:45:44.519 But I think them want more. I think people want more. 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:47.920 They always it never is enough. I mean, look at 1:45:47.960 --> 1:45:50.120 us as a species, what we have is never enough. 1:45:51.760 --> 1:45:55.320 That's a good point. We want robots that drive our cars, 1:45:55.439 --> 1:45:59.000 we want we want to have the blood of younger 1:45:59.120 --> 1:46:02.320 people so we can day young. We want to bottle 1:46:02.360 --> 1:46:05.120 our consciousness. We want to live forever, like it's never enough. 1:46:05.400 --> 1:46:07.120 We're living at the best point in time you could 1:46:07.160 --> 1:46:12.799 ever live for humans, and still they want more. Yeah, 1:46:12.840 --> 1:46:19.559 it's never enough, never enough. Would you would you like 1:46:19.800 --> 1:46:27.320 Bigfoot to be real? I don't have an opinion about it. 1:46:27.360 --> 1:46:29.760 If all someone got hit on I five, Yeah, it 1:46:29.760 --> 1:46:31.920 would cause I can't say that I would like it. 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:34.519 It would cause me to reevaluate everything I've ever thought. 1:46:37.520 --> 1:46:43.679 It would change everything for me. Um. Yeah, it would 1:46:43.680 --> 1:46:46.360 shake me up. It would shake me up. I would 1:46:46.360 --> 1:46:49.160 all of a sudden become I would at that point, 1:46:49.200 --> 1:46:52.080 would become obsessed. Would you invite me back to talk 1:46:52.120 --> 1:46:55.840 to you again? Okay, I would become I would become obsessed, 1:46:55.920 --> 1:46:58.519 and I would in my primary thing would be how 1:46:58.720 --> 1:47:03.120 is it possible that we miss stid right? And then 1:47:03.160 --> 1:47:08.400 I would hold these people, Grover Grover Crans. I would 1:47:08.400 --> 1:47:10.120 all of a sudden think that he was an American 1:47:10.160 --> 1:47:13.480 hero and a genius. And I would go to Rushmore 1:47:13.560 --> 1:47:16.599 and I would like, uh, you know, scrub someone's face 1:47:16.600 --> 1:47:18.479 off there and chisel his up on there. I wouldn't 1:47:18.479 --> 1:47:22.880 take OTR down. But someone would uh yeah, I would 1:47:22.920 --> 1:47:27.240 be like, what a visionary and that would everything would 1:47:27.280 --> 1:47:30.479 be different. But I'm not worried about one getting hit 1:47:30.520 --> 1:47:36.080 on I five. Um what else you got? You got? 1:47:36.400 --> 1:47:37.800 There are more points you want to bring up, keep 1:47:37.800 --> 1:47:39.120 you want to you want to plug the podcast a 1:47:39.160 --> 1:47:41.240 little bit about how people can go find it, because 1:47:41.240 --> 1:47:43.439 they'll learn way more doing that and they will listen 1:47:43.479 --> 1:47:46.240 to this. That's a good that's probably a good point. 1:47:46.240 --> 1:47:49.320 You're comfortable, Yeah, I'm comportable time. Yeah that's fair. Um. 1:47:49.400 --> 1:47:52.479 So the podcast is available on pretty much any platform 1:47:52.520 --> 1:47:56.080 you get your podcasts on iTunes or Apple podcasts. You 1:47:56.080 --> 1:48:00.559 can't call it iTunes anymore, Apple podcasts, Stitcher, tune in 1:48:00.920 --> 1:48:05.920 for the sports people out there, Um, Google play has it. 1:48:08.000 --> 1:48:09.920 I know there's another one that I'm forgetting. I Heart 1:48:10.000 --> 1:48:13.960 radio whatever they are, and uh yeah, it's available in 1:48:14.040 --> 1:48:16.679 all those platforms. You can also if you don't feel 1:48:16.680 --> 1:48:18.960 comfortable with podcasts, you can find it on our website, 1:48:18.960 --> 1:48:22.559 which is wild thing podcast dot com, stream direct, yep, 1:48:23.880 --> 1:48:26.640 and we also have some cool t shirts. There is 1:48:26.680 --> 1:48:30.080 it a thing to not feel comfortable with Apple podcasts? Well? 1:48:30.120 --> 1:48:32.640 I think if there are some people who maybe are 1:48:32.680 --> 1:48:35.320 a little older and don't quite either don't have a 1:48:35.360 --> 1:48:38.360 smartphone or don't necessarily know how the technology works. It's 1:48:38.400 --> 1:48:40.920 just easier to go. And you know, we're trying trying 1:48:40.960 --> 1:48:46.880 to be open to all. We're not a just Um, 1:48:46.920 --> 1:48:50.960 there's a Facebook page, wild thing Pod. We're on Twitter, 1:48:52.080 --> 1:48:56.479 which is you know, Twitter, wild thing Pod, Instagram, wild 1:48:56.479 --> 1:48:58.840 thing Pod. They're all the same. And then za people 1:48:58.880 --> 1:49:02.240 with a couple, uh that, people with a couple titilating 1:49:02.280 --> 1:49:05.360 details about things they'll find if they listen that we 1:49:05.400 --> 1:49:07.080 didn't cover today. Well, you'll learn a little bit more 1:49:07.080 --> 1:49:09.880 about Grover because he's a pretty fascinating dude. You'll get 1:49:09.880 --> 1:49:12.760 some more you'll get some fun stuff about evolution. Um, 1:49:12.920 --> 1:49:14.920 we'll talk a little bit about the different evidence that's 1:49:14.960 --> 1:49:17.559 in there. You get to hear more of these eyewitness encounters, 1:49:17.560 --> 1:49:19.559 and they're way better told by the people who actually 1:49:19.560 --> 1:49:23.120 experienced something than they are by me. Um. There's some 1:49:23.240 --> 1:49:25.320 whole bunch of stuff about DNA which we didn't really 1:49:25.320 --> 1:49:27.400 get into. But there's a lot of really cool info 1:49:27.479 --> 1:49:30.400 about DNA that's not even necessarily Bigfoot related. That's just 1:49:30.439 --> 1:49:34.520 like blow your mind science, which is pretty awesome. Um, 1:49:34.600 --> 1:49:36.400 I go on a big Foot expedition, you can join 1:49:36.479 --> 1:49:39.760 me on that. And we get into the sort of 1:49:39.760 --> 1:49:44.599 cultural taboo around Bigfoot, and uh, the all the different 1:49:44.600 --> 1:49:48.320 companies that use Bigfoot as the you know, the mascot 1:49:48.479 --> 1:49:53.960 or the name or in there there um labels somehow, 1:49:54.840 --> 1:49:56.880 and why there is this sort of cultural or this 1:49:57.000 --> 1:50:01.000 commercial appeal. Um. All these companies have realized that even 1:50:01.040 --> 1:50:03.960 if Steve here doesn't think Bigfoot is the neatest thing 1:50:04.000 --> 1:50:06.240 since slic spread, there's a lot of people that do, 1:50:06.360 --> 1:50:09.599 and they'll spend money on those kinds of products, marketing 1:50:09.600 --> 1:50:14.559 Bigfoot marketing, the exploitation of big Yeah, here's the other thing. 1:50:14.640 --> 1:50:18.040 Bigfoot ever realizes just how much exploitation is going on. 1:50:18.080 --> 1:50:20.479 I would not be surprised if it comes out of 1:50:20.479 --> 1:50:26.160 the woods and it's like there's gonna be litigation, trademark infringement. Alright, 1:50:26.320 --> 1:50:32.479 so wild things, damn. I know that wild thing, wild thing. 1:50:32.840 --> 1:50:35.000 But I was pried. I gotta say. I was listening 1:50:35.000 --> 1:50:37.920 over the weekend, you know, prepping and how much my 1:50:38.000 --> 1:50:41.519 old is my daughter was like following because I just 1:50:41.520 --> 1:50:43.280 put in my back pocket, you know, I'm listening to 1:50:43.280 --> 1:50:45.760 the podcasts and walking around the house doing stuff and 1:50:45.800 --> 1:50:48.680 she's like following along, Okay, well hold on, you know, 1:50:48.720 --> 1:50:51.040 and she didn't. She's seven, you know, she came quite 1:50:51.040 --> 1:50:53.080 grasp everything. So there's a lot of stopping and pausing 1:50:53.080 --> 1:50:54.600 and asking questions. But it was I found it to 1:50:54.680 --> 1:50:57.760 be very family friendly because I enjoyed having conversations with 1:50:57.760 --> 1:51:00.360 my daughter about what she was hearing. And that's the 1:51:00.360 --> 1:51:03.040 other thing. I know. There are some swears in this one. 1:51:03.120 --> 1:51:05.840 I think there's like the S word gets dropped like 1:51:05.960 --> 1:51:08.559 ten times over the course of the episodes, and there's 1:51:08.600 --> 1:51:10.559 a couple of little risque areas. But I am going 1:51:10.600 --> 1:51:13.200 to release a clean version because I know a lot 1:51:13.200 --> 1:51:15.439 of people would prefer not to have swearing. A kid 1:51:15.479 --> 1:51:18.120 friendly version. Yeah, well it'll be it's basically going to 1:51:18.200 --> 1:51:20.080 be the same thing, but I'm gonna cut out the 1:51:20.120 --> 1:51:23.519 swear words and some of the sexy stuff, and UM 1:51:23.840 --> 1:51:27.479 have that available starting in January. I think I got 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:31.680 one last thing, man, You're good. Yeah. Yeah. It's making 1:51:31.680 --> 1:51:34.400 me nervous, Like how I keep thinking you're dressed up. 1:51:34.439 --> 1:51:35.880 I realized the only thing you did different is you 1:51:35.920 --> 1:51:38.920 talked your shirt in It makes me nervous, like there's 1:51:38.920 --> 1:51:42.160 something going on. There's like something going on in your life. 1:51:42.160 --> 1:51:45.439 I don't know about you just talked your shirt in No. 1:51:45.600 --> 1:51:48.240 I felt like we had a special guest to make 1:51:48.280 --> 1:51:57.360 sure you know, I'm so embarrassing. Looks very nice. UM's 1:51:57.360 --> 1:52:00.519 gonna say you had to quit sexy stuff. I didn't 1:52:00.520 --> 1:52:03.080 know if there was. Oh, here's the thing. Can you 1:52:03.080 --> 1:52:05.360 tell me? No, you tell me what the bigfoot community 1:52:05.400 --> 1:52:09.040 has to say about this? At trail cams. Man trail 1:52:09.120 --> 1:52:12.880 cams have rewritten the story of wildlife in America. This 1:52:12.920 --> 1:52:16.439 is my question. Distribute like just distribution issues and like 1:52:18.439 --> 1:52:21.040 all not just in America, all around the world. It's 1:52:21.120 --> 1:52:24.680 rewriting our understanding of where of the distribution maps of 1:52:24.720 --> 1:52:27.800 certain species and what they're doing. What is it? What 1:52:27.920 --> 1:52:30.719 do the bigfoot guys have to say about the lack 1:52:30.760 --> 1:52:35.040 of trail camp footage that they're smart enough to avoid them? Oh, 1:52:35.400 --> 1:52:41.160 or bigfoot is blurry? An invisible? Could be invisible the 1:52:41.200 --> 1:52:44.040 fourth dimensional one? I cannot because I never know. You 1:52:44.040 --> 1:52:46.960 can't take a picture of ghosts. Yeah, well you can, though, 1:52:47.000 --> 1:52:49.559 isn't there like some wasn't there some TV show that 1:52:49.640 --> 1:52:53.400 was like pictures of ghosts or something like that? I remember, 1:52:54.760 --> 1:52:58.160 but you get the aura. Yeah, they explain it away. 1:52:58.800 --> 1:53:01.559 Trail cams like they jbs the trail camps they can 1:53:01.600 --> 1:53:04.880 hear some high sort of high frequency something or they're 1:53:04.880 --> 1:53:09.240 going on, how there must be thousands of trail cams 1:53:09.320 --> 1:53:12.679 set specifically to catch bigfoot at this point in time 1:53:12.880 --> 1:53:16.000 right now, I'm guessing right you did. You probably talk 1:53:16.080 --> 1:53:18.880 to people that say, yes, I own hundreds and I 1:53:18.960 --> 1:53:21.519 have them set to catch big Yeah. I mean, I'm on. 1:53:22.520 --> 1:53:25.080 I mean the amount of money that gets spent on 1:53:25.120 --> 1:53:29.960 some of the gear. It's like Sennheiser mikes and flear 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:34.680 and night vision and you know, high end recording devices 1:53:34.760 --> 1:53:37.479 and trail cams and you know, we're talking like tens 1:53:37.479 --> 1:53:42.120 of thousands of dollars that gets spent on gear and 1:53:42.160 --> 1:53:45.599 we don't have anything. They're bringing trail cams into the fight. 1:53:46.320 --> 1:53:49.720 Well they're but but they're developing the idea that he 1:53:49.800 --> 1:53:52.519 knows and he avoids it or she or it or 1:53:52.560 --> 1:53:55.280 they those females. Of course, you won't have any, so 1:53:55.800 --> 1:53:58.519 that like damn it should have known bigfoot you can't 1:53:58.560 --> 1:54:01.519 catch could be a good source for some hunting spots, 1:54:01.680 --> 1:54:03.559 if you know, if you live in that area and 1:54:03.600 --> 1:54:07.200 you know a bigfoot person. Yeah, oh yeah, if you're 1:54:07.280 --> 1:54:12.320 like the other thing, Yeah, here's the other thing is 1:54:12.400 --> 1:54:17.280 the bigfoot people though often aren't just out doing bigfoot 1:54:17.360 --> 1:54:20.200 like they're out hunting like bigfoot is just sort of 1:54:20.240 --> 1:54:22.040 it's on it's on the side in addition to the 1:54:22.080 --> 1:54:24.360 other stuff that they're they're doing out there like they're 1:54:24.720 --> 1:54:26.720 I think the first love in some cases is off 1:54:26.720 --> 1:54:30.360 in the woods and just being outside, and this becomes 1:54:31.160 --> 1:54:34.600 part of that experience. You got one last question for you. 1:54:35.760 --> 1:54:38.440 Is anyone in the community now still walking around with 1:54:38.440 --> 1:54:41.760 the gun. There's still guys that would drop one if 1:54:41.760 --> 1:54:43.720 they saw a Couple of the ones I've talked to 1:54:43.760 --> 1:54:46.240 who are scientists that yeah, like, unless you have a 1:54:46.280 --> 1:54:48.560 body or a big piece of a body, you're never 1:54:48.560 --> 1:54:51.600 going to convince anyone. And they condone the idea of 1:54:51.760 --> 1:54:55.840 seeing one and killing it. Some of them do, yeah, no, ship, Yeah, 1:54:55.880 --> 1:54:57.760 a lot of them. A lot of them carry guns 1:54:57.800 --> 1:55:02.920 though for other wildlife what I mean, protection protection, Yeah, 1:55:02.960 --> 1:55:05.000 but they would. There's guys out there right now in 1:55:05.040 --> 1:55:06.520 the community would be like, I would kill it if 1:55:06.520 --> 1:55:08.680 I saw it. Dude, you want to see a blow 1:55:08.760 --> 1:55:12.160 up on social media? I'm not going. I do not 1:55:12.320 --> 1:55:14.760 want to step into that mess. You're welcome to go. 1:55:14.880 --> 1:55:16.880 You go, let me holl go send me a note 1:55:17.880 --> 1:55:20.240 saying that guy is gonna get major trouble and the 1:55:20.280 --> 1:55:21.920 name of signed. Well, that's what happened. If you want 1:55:21.960 --> 1:55:23.600 me to read the letter that Grover got or some 1:55:23.640 --> 1:55:25.320 of the letters, I've got them on my computer. You 1:55:25.360 --> 1:55:29.520 want to, can we put them up on our show notes? Yeah? 1:55:29.520 --> 1:55:31.800 I don't see why not be the best thing for us. Okay, 1:55:31.800 --> 1:55:33.560 I'll send them to I'll send you a couple. I'll 1:55:33.600 --> 1:55:36.280 let you have them in the show notes and any 1:55:36.280 --> 1:55:38.320 other kind of great stuff. We'll put up the bigfoot 1:55:38.400 --> 1:55:41.200 video of the famous thing from the fifties or sixties 1:55:40.840 --> 1:55:42.800 sixty seven, we'll put the show notes. We'll put up 1:55:42.800 --> 1:55:45.760 links for your stuff. Okay, Um, yeah, I've got all 1:55:45.840 --> 1:55:47.960 kinds of photos and illustrations too, if you I'll show 1:55:47.960 --> 1:55:53.240 them to you when we're yeah done. What in your 1:55:53.240 --> 1:55:57.000 mind from from what you looked at? Okay, here's the 1:55:57.000 --> 1:55:58.360 thing I got to with the email. I want to 1:55:58.400 --> 1:56:01.400 establish real quick. Okay, just give me a yes or no. 1:56:02.400 --> 1:56:06.400 Do you believe do you believe that there's a that 1:56:06.400 --> 1:56:09.360 that that that bigfoot in the way that we're discussing it, 1:56:09.840 --> 1:56:15.840 not the one that passes through space. Um, do you 1:56:15.920 --> 1:56:20.440 believe that there is the Bigfoot as a living, breathing, 1:56:20.960 --> 1:56:25.440 sustainable like like species, or as just a fluke freak 1:56:25.960 --> 1:56:28.640 occurrence that was dropped off by an alien ship? Like 1:56:28.680 --> 1:56:34.000 do you believe that it's true or not? Right now? Yeah? 1:56:34.120 --> 1:56:35.960 Right now, it's own here right now. You don't know. 1:56:36.880 --> 1:56:41.400 But I based on the evolution stuff and the long 1:56:41.560 --> 1:56:44.600 history of Native American stories, there may have been something 1:56:44.600 --> 1:56:47.200 like Bigfoot one upon it once upon a time. That's 1:56:47.240 --> 1:56:49.560 sort of where I am. But here's the thing, and 1:56:49.600 --> 1:56:52.040 this is what I get to in this last episode 1:56:53.680 --> 1:56:56.480 based on the evidence. No, I don't think Bigfoot is real, 1:56:57.240 --> 1:56:59.880 but I still really want Bigfoot to be real because 1:56:59.880 --> 1:57:01.960 I like that idea so much, and I think that's 1:57:02.000 --> 1:57:06.120 where a lot of people come down. Okay, I'm with 1:57:06.160 --> 1:57:08.160 you there. Yeah, I feel the same way, just the 1:57:08.160 --> 1:57:10.360 same way you feel about aliens. Like, right, like, there's 1:57:10.360 --> 1:57:15.000 no evidence. We all know there's not, there's nothing, but yeah, 1:57:15.040 --> 1:57:17.640 if one shows, they'll be like hell, yeah, great, unless 1:57:17.640 --> 1:57:19.720 they're trying to kill you. Unless they're trying to kill you. 1:57:20.000 --> 1:57:22.680 But the problem with aliens is that it's um, it's 1:57:22.680 --> 1:57:25.520 a totally different conversation because then you get into questions 1:57:25.520 --> 1:57:29.360 of infinity. Yeah you know, I mean like the Fermi 1:57:29.400 --> 1:57:34.040 paradox or no, there are like more planets than grains 1:57:34.080 --> 1:57:37.640 of sand on Earth, and so you get into this like, right, 1:57:37.880 --> 1:57:40.280 it's just a totally different It's like you're you're dealing 1:57:40.280 --> 1:57:44.160 in such different concept scale entirely. But the fact, you know, 1:57:44.280 --> 1:57:47.160 if aliens existed, where are they? Why haven't they reached 1:57:47.200 --> 1:57:48.920 us out to us by now? Or are we the 1:57:48.920 --> 1:57:52.720 most advanced species in the entire galaxy or are we 1:57:52.760 --> 1:57:56.960 totally alone? Like there's a lot of like questions around 1:57:56.960 --> 1:57:59.240 that too, for sure. And we talked about this a 1:57:59.240 --> 1:58:03.080 bunch for with aliens. Is that uh And if you're 1:58:03.120 --> 1:58:06.720 from the physiologist Jared Diamond, Yeah, he talks about this 1:58:06.760 --> 1:58:11.240 idea that with with life and other places, that life 1:58:11.240 --> 1:58:15.280 takes so many different forms, and planets have life cycles 1:58:15.720 --> 1:58:18.280 and species have life cycles, and that of all of 1:58:18.280 --> 1:58:21.840 the species that have ever existed on Earth, only one 1:58:22.240 --> 1:58:27.680 has developed the ability to transmit signals mm hmm, like 1:58:27.680 --> 1:58:32.680 an electronic transmission of a signal. After tens of thousands 1:58:32.760 --> 1:58:36.360 upon thousands of species one did that, we haven't been 1:58:36.360 --> 1:58:39.920 doing it for very long. Our future as a species 1:58:40.000 --> 1:58:44.480 is probably not terribly bright, meaning like, are we're here 1:58:44.520 --> 1:58:47.640 in ten thousand years or if we self obliterated. So 1:58:47.840 --> 1:58:51.920 the fact that on some other planet that you'd have 1:58:51.960 --> 1:58:58.240 another species contemporaneous with ours trying to transmit electronic signals 1:58:58.280 --> 1:59:02.160 at this little blipping time that we are, it opens 1:59:02.240 --> 1:59:04.120 up like even if you, even if you can get 1:59:04.160 --> 1:59:07.400 over the hurdle of imagining other life, that it would 1:59:07.440 --> 1:59:12.760 somehow be contemporaneous with ours and have motivations using electronic 1:59:12.800 --> 1:59:16.120 signals to talk. It could be else entirely like we don't. 1:59:16.880 --> 1:59:20.160 Life could look like that coffee cup like we don't. 1:59:20.240 --> 1:59:21.960 It could be coffee cup planet and they don't look 1:59:22.040 --> 1:59:23.440 like that, and we don't even know how to talk 1:59:23.480 --> 1:59:25.440 to him. So he doesn't put it out as evidence. 1:59:25.600 --> 1:59:28.400 You can't put out the lack of communication as evidence 1:59:28.560 --> 1:59:33.880 that is not there, because well, science can't prove a negative. Yeah, 1:59:33.920 --> 1:59:36.120 which is the which is an argument you hear with Bigfoot. 1:59:36.640 --> 1:59:38.480 But I also here to some people in reading about 1:59:38.480 --> 1:59:42.280 big but I hear some people say the biggest piece 1:59:42.320 --> 1:59:45.720 of evidence against the Bigfoot is all of the evidence 1:59:47.560 --> 1:59:51.160 because it's so contradictory the tracks. I've heard that argument 1:59:51.160 --> 1:59:54.360 to the tracks, but people can't agree on how many 1:59:54.400 --> 1:59:56.800 all of the tracks that show up because they have 1:59:56.880 --> 1:59:58.840 five toes, as they have six toes, as they have 1:59:58.880 --> 2:00:01.640 four toes. What is the size and structure of the tracks. 2:00:01.680 --> 2:00:04.280 People are like, that's a Bigfoot track, But there's no 2:00:04.400 --> 2:00:09.560 commonality between the Bigfoot tracks, descriptions of size, descriptions of diet, 2:00:09.640 --> 2:00:14.560 descriptions of sound. It's sort of big extremely contradicted. Bigfoot 2:00:14.640 --> 2:00:18.440 occupies this thing of like unknown things, and so people 2:00:18.480 --> 2:00:21.360 take like they have a known concept of this thing Bigfoot, 2:00:21.840 --> 2:00:28.720 and they take unknown things enforce it into a shape 2:00:28.720 --> 2:00:32.640 that comes out being Bigfoot for the unknown. Why why 2:00:32.720 --> 2:00:34.800 is that the shape? That's another question that I kind 2:00:34.840 --> 2:00:37.960 of am interested in exploring, too, is because so many 2:00:38.000 --> 2:00:41.840 cultures have something like Bigfoot. Think about Grendel, like Bayowolf, 2:00:41.840 --> 2:00:44.000 did you read Bayowolf? Like way back in there, Greg Grendel, 2:00:44.080 --> 2:00:48.760 the Epic of Gilgamesh, like these giant, hairy human like creatures, 2:00:48.800 --> 2:00:52.920 Like there is something about that shape as you're talking 2:00:52.920 --> 2:00:57.080 about that fascinates us, and what is that? And then 2:00:57.160 --> 2:01:02.480 any other final concluding thoughts embrace Bigfoot. Just do it. 2:01:02.680 --> 2:01:06.800 I mean it's it's it's a embrace the mystery, Embrace 2:01:06.840 --> 2:01:08.480 the mystery, and embraced the fun of it. I think 2:01:08.520 --> 2:01:10.240 that's part of it too, is it's meant in some ways, 2:01:10.240 --> 2:01:12.760 it's meant to be. There's a lot of fun that 2:01:12.800 --> 2:01:15.520 comes with this. You know, there's a lot of silliness, 2:01:15.520 --> 2:01:17.320 and there's a lot of stupid stuff, but there's also 2:01:17.440 --> 2:01:20.120 just like there's a lot of interesting science, there's a 2:01:20.160 --> 2:01:23.720 lot of interesting people, and it's been a big part 2:01:23.720 --> 2:01:27.560 of American culture for a long time. So there, you know, 2:01:27.760 --> 2:01:32.120 it's it's worth spending a little time roughly four and 2:01:32.120 --> 2:01:34.360 a half hours to listen to my podcast Wild Thing. 2:01:34.880 --> 2:01:42.080 If you tag this on you got any concluders, uh no, 2:01:42.560 --> 2:01:45.160 then you should definitely go listen to it. I thought 2:01:45.160 --> 2:01:49.120 I found it thoroughly entertaining and enjoyable, So nice way 2:01:49.120 --> 2:01:59.800 to pass the time listening. Um yeah, man, Bigfoot tears 2:01:59.800 --> 2:02:02.840 me out. Why can't it? Why can't it become fun 2:02:02.920 --> 2:02:04.960 for me too? I don't know, why can't it? God 2:02:05.080 --> 2:02:08.240 just not that kind of guy. I'm gonna trying to 2:02:08.280 --> 2:02:10.480 make it more fun for me instead. It just is 2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:12.520 something that makes me pull my hair out. But obviously 2:02:12.520 --> 2:02:16.520 here I am sitting here. Even people who think Bigfoot 2:02:16.600 --> 2:02:18.120 is the dumbest thing they've ever heard of, they end 2:02:18.200 --> 2:02:20.480 up asking me all kinds of questions. You can't help yourself, 2:02:20.600 --> 2:02:24.720 you can't. I can't help myself. Him. No, I'm like, like, 2:02:25.360 --> 2:02:27.480 I heart big Foot. Man. Maybe it's a friend of 2:02:27.480 --> 2:02:29.360 me thing, you know what, Maybe you know what, it's 2:02:29.400 --> 2:02:31.480 probably a friend of Yeah, you're right. It's like I'm 2:02:31.520 --> 2:02:36.440 one of those people that you know, I'm one of 2:02:36.440 --> 2:02:38.280 those people that you know, they get like a real 2:02:38.360 --> 2:02:41.000 axe to grind and they're like primary thing in life 2:02:41.080 --> 2:02:43.200 is like fighting against something. Then you realize that that's 2:02:43.200 --> 2:02:47.160 what they do at night, right, and you're like, oh, 2:02:47.400 --> 2:02:51.720 I get it now. It was like this self loathing. 2:02:52.920 --> 2:02:56.120 You're a you're a self loathing, self loathing Bigfoot lover. Yeah, 2:02:56.160 --> 2:02:59.560 and it's like you just can't. It's like a flame 2:02:59.600 --> 2:03:01.760 that you can't. I think Janice and I can probably, 2:03:01.960 --> 2:03:05.800 you know, we can have online meetings and help you walk. 2:03:05.880 --> 2:03:08.320 There's probably twelve to help me, help me get to 2:03:08.360 --> 2:03:10.440 a point where I can just come out and say, 2:03:10.480 --> 2:03:12.240 you know what, I just love Bigfoot and I love 2:03:12.280 --> 2:03:14.560 talking about it. I should probably know this from listening 2:03:14.640 --> 2:03:18.040 with the Weekend. But what's like the first recorded bigfoot 2:03:18.680 --> 2:03:22.240 sighting or evidence or anything. How how many foot span 2:03:22.280 --> 2:03:26.280 of years we're talked about that this thing has been around. Well, 2:03:26.280 --> 2:03:29.200 there's tons of Native American stuff, um, And some of 2:03:29.240 --> 2:03:31.360 them are sightings, some of them are just more part 2:03:31.400 --> 2:03:34.840 of the mythology, um. But the one that I think 2:03:34.880 --> 2:03:37.200 most people stands out for most people came in the 2:03:37.280 --> 2:03:41.160 fifties in California. So it's a pretty new thing then 2:03:41.480 --> 2:03:47.800 for like modern American culture. Yeah, first seventy years. Yeah, 2:03:47.960 --> 2:03:50.720 the first the first time the term bigfoot was actually 2:03:50.800 --> 2:03:56.080 used was in the fifties, fifty eight, I think. Yeah, Well, 2:03:56.120 --> 2:03:57.560 I was going to make the point that I feel like, 2:03:57.880 --> 2:04:00.920 had you been around, maybe the exes would be just 2:04:00.960 --> 2:04:04.240 so much easier to dismiss it. Right, something new, it's crazy, 2:04:04.360 --> 2:04:09.640 like whatever. But now that it has seventy years behind it, well, 2:04:09.680 --> 2:04:14.400 other than years of false leads, I'm a believer now, Buddy. Well, 2:04:14.480 --> 2:04:17.240 I just think a lot of other things that also 2:04:17.360 --> 2:04:20.240 don't have a lot of like true solid evidence, but 2:04:20.320 --> 2:04:23.600 they have people have now believed in for many, many years, 2:04:23.680 --> 2:04:25.800 and they sort of become more real and easy to 2:04:25.840 --> 2:04:29.400 believe to match onto the more time goes by. But 2:04:29.480 --> 2:04:32.640 you must have. I mean, the hunting community is full 2:04:32.680 --> 2:04:37.240 of these stories, stories, bigfoot stories I have talked about. 2:04:37.280 --> 2:04:38.920 I mean, it's like you you can't, you can't make 2:04:38.960 --> 2:04:40.920 it real. No, But I'm just saying you must have 2:04:40.960 --> 2:04:44.040 been like hearing about this from people who listen to 2:04:44.040 --> 2:04:45.920 your show all the time. I used to live in 2:04:45.920 --> 2:04:48.160 Michigan's Uper Peninsula for a very short period of time, 2:04:48.480 --> 2:04:50.200 and it was the thing up there and even here 2:04:50.200 --> 2:04:52.520 here in Montana, Like it was a year ago or 2:04:52.560 --> 2:04:54.240 two years ago, a guy jumped out in front of 2:04:54.240 --> 2:04:56.200 a car with a big foot's big foot stud on, 2:04:56.320 --> 2:04:59.280 got hit by the car and killed him. What. Yeah, 2:05:00.360 --> 2:05:03.080 it was in northwest Montana. Yeah, I remember hearing about that. 2:05:03.560 --> 2:05:06.480 So it's like like trying to pray a prank on people. 2:05:06.520 --> 2:05:08.320 You traumatize someone who's not going to live with the 2:05:08.360 --> 2:05:11.560 idea they hit and killed. Well, and also you're dead. Yeah, 2:05:11.560 --> 2:05:13.680 but you know, I mean I mean that. I mean 2:05:13.680 --> 2:05:16.320 it's like, but that's like your own call. Get that 2:05:16.360 --> 2:05:18.920 out of that's your own call to make, that's your 2:05:18.920 --> 2:05:20.520 own call to maker. You want to if you want 2:05:20.520 --> 2:05:21.920 to put a student on and jump in front of 2:05:21.960 --> 2:05:24.240 a car that comes with inherent risks. I think that 2:05:24.280 --> 2:05:27.080 anyone could point out to you, But I'm just putting 2:05:27.080 --> 2:05:30.440 a person. You're putting a motorist in the situation of 2:05:30.520 --> 2:05:32.920 having had to live with the fact that they killed you. 2:05:33.120 --> 2:05:36.520 But I'm wondering, have you heard stories from some of 2:05:36.520 --> 2:05:39.280 the hunters that you've interacted with and talked to that 2:05:39.320 --> 2:05:41.360 are similar to what I'm talking about. Where's the stories 2:05:41.360 --> 2:05:42.920 that have really sort of shaken them to their core. 2:05:43.080 --> 2:05:45.520 I've heard stories from a lot of hunters about seeing 2:05:45.560 --> 2:05:50.240 inexplicable things in the woods, but not that in particular. 2:05:50.840 --> 2:05:54.040 I no doubt hang out with people who um, I 2:05:54.080 --> 2:05:57.120 have a friend who tells the story of a mule deer. 2:05:57.160 --> 2:06:01.120 They can bowl bullets away by going okay, So yes, 2:06:01.280 --> 2:06:03.600 I I know and hang out with an associate with 2:06:03.640 --> 2:06:07.280 people who are open to the metaphysical UM. But but 2:06:07.400 --> 2:06:09.520 I do not tell me more about this mule deer. 2:06:10.080 --> 2:06:12.720 I don't know a lot about it. Could be my 2:06:12.720 --> 2:06:15.360 next be that could be season two. I was told 2:06:15.400 --> 2:06:18.919 about it. UM one last thing for me. We're good. 2:06:19.280 --> 2:06:22.440 Oh well, yeah, that did brought up a thought that 2:06:22.480 --> 2:06:24.760 I had that didn't make a note of but is 2:06:24.800 --> 2:06:28.600 there is there? Season two? D see big this is 2:06:28.600 --> 2:06:30.440 a one season thing. I'm moving on to the next thing. 2:06:30.560 --> 2:06:33.200 What's the next thing? Not the Lockness Monster, not the Yetty, 2:06:33.760 --> 2:06:36.920 I'm going fishing in Lockness did So here's an interesting thing. 2:06:36.960 --> 2:06:41.440 So there's a scientist out in Scotland right now who says, Okay, 2:06:42.040 --> 2:06:44.880 I am going to look for the Lockness Monster. He 2:06:44.920 --> 2:06:47.360 doesn't think Lockness is real, but I'm going to do 2:06:47.400 --> 2:06:51.240 this by doing DNA environmental DNA analysis of the lake 2:06:51.480 --> 2:06:53.920 and we will see what else has been in there. 2:06:53.960 --> 2:06:56.400 I think the chances of me finding a Lockness Monster 2:06:56.520 --> 2:06:59.880 are slim to zero, but who knows what else has 2:07:00.000 --> 2:07:02.000 in in there because they can get so much information 2:07:02.000 --> 2:07:04.560 out of these teeny tiny pieces of DNA, now that 2:07:04.680 --> 2:07:08.560 it's like they can. They might find DNA of ancient sharks, 2:07:08.600 --> 2:07:10.640 they might find all kinds of stuff. So that's one 2:07:10.680 --> 2:07:12.920 of the other cool things about this cryptozoology stuff is 2:07:12.960 --> 2:07:16.360 often you will use something like Luckness or Bigfoot or 2:07:16.360 --> 2:07:19.520 the Yety as the hook to get people interested, and 2:07:19.520 --> 2:07:20.920 then you go out and find out all this other 2:07:20.920 --> 2:07:23.000 cool stuff. Yeah, so you lure him in with bullshit 2:07:23.280 --> 2:07:27.360 but then teach them something, teach them something real and interesting. Yeah, 2:07:27.880 --> 2:07:29.760 I mean, I don't know who we do. We don't 2:07:29.800 --> 2:07:34.320 necessarily a really long wrap up go ahead. No, I'm 2:07:34.360 --> 2:07:36.400 just saying that it's like a good thing. If the 2:07:36.480 --> 2:07:40.320 end result is that people know more about science, wildlife, 2:07:40.320 --> 2:07:43.560 outdoors and whatever, it's great. Yeah, if it gets him 2:07:43.560 --> 2:07:46.280 out into the woods. I think of the risk you're running, though, 2:07:46.400 --> 2:07:50.200 why not lurement with something that's not Why not lurem 2:07:50.240 --> 2:07:54.320 in with If we're gonna talk about Washington State all 2:07:54.360 --> 2:07:56.520 the above, why not lure them into the problem with 2:07:56.680 --> 2:08:00.520 the fact that, like at this very moment, there may 2:08:00.680 --> 2:08:05.600 or may not be a grizzly bear on the U. S. 2:08:05.600 --> 2:08:07.960 Side of the you know, on the U. S. Side 2:08:07.960 --> 2:08:11.160 of the Northern Cascades. Yeah, that's a great question that 2:08:11.200 --> 2:08:15.840 gets a certain segment of the population excited. People because 2:08:15.840 --> 2:08:19.880 there we got a thing that really is mysterious and 2:08:20.000 --> 2:08:24.520 really does need some protection and really is something that 2:08:24.840 --> 2:08:26.480 we need to get people on board with. Or the 2:08:26.520 --> 2:08:31.320 fact that we now do not have any caribou in 2:08:31.920 --> 2:08:35.640 again Bigfoot central Washington State, We do not have any 2:08:35.680 --> 2:08:41.360 caribou that cross into Washington State. Though in your father's 2:08:41.360 --> 2:08:44.840 and grandfather's lifetime, there were. We don't have any caribou 2:08:44.880 --> 2:08:47.520 that cross in the ido and in your life lifetime 2:08:47.760 --> 2:08:53.320 there were. There's plenty of rare wildlife out there to apply, 2:08:54.520 --> 2:09:00.440 are you know? Emotions and science too. You're in a 2:09:00.440 --> 2:09:05.440 constructive fashion, Um quick, Laura was going to answer what's next? 2:09:06.440 --> 2:09:08.080 You were? I thought you were like not. I actually 2:09:08.080 --> 2:09:09.840 I don't know what's next. I have some ideas that 2:09:09.880 --> 2:09:12.480 are like very nascent, but they are not ready to 2:09:12.520 --> 2:09:17.200 be shared with the world. So you're kicking some stuff around. Yeah, 2:09:17.280 --> 2:09:18.880 but I just need to figure out, like if they're 2:09:18.880 --> 2:09:23.480 even feasible at this point from a getting access to 2:09:23.520 --> 2:09:26.160 information point of view. You know, I think you ought 2:09:26.160 --> 2:09:35.800 to do what now? Never mind what I I'll tell 2:09:35.840 --> 2:09:40.040 you later. Oh real quick, before you go, not you 2:09:40.200 --> 2:09:43.360 just other the people, the people listeners, real quick. I 2:09:43.400 --> 2:09:46.640 got a handful of famers needed to do one. Go 2:09:46.760 --> 2:09:51.120 to uh the meat Eater dot com Please and subscribe 2:09:51.160 --> 2:09:53.080 to our newsletter. That's real important to me for reasons 2:09:53.120 --> 2:09:55.600 I'll not get into. Go and do that. If you 2:09:55.720 --> 2:09:58.320 listen on Apple podcast, make sure to go in and 2:09:58.360 --> 2:10:04.120 give this here digital radio program a review. 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Um, we didn't say bouch when we're 2:10:39.360 --> 2:10:42.000 talking about someone shooting at a big foot, which seems inappropriate. 2:10:42.600 --> 2:10:46.080 So all that. Yeah, do that and you'll be in 2:10:46.120 --> 2:10:49.280 good standing with me and Laura Crants. Thank you very 2:10:49.360 --> 2:10:51.600 much for coming on. I'll tell you my hot tip 2:10:52.560 --> 2:10:56.600 about what's your next show out to be about, and um, 2:10:56.680 --> 2:11:00.560 I look forward to getting a lot of angry emails. 2:11:00.920 --> 2:11:03.640 Anyone who's seen a bigfoot, please right in. I will 2:11:03.680 --> 2:11:08.600 share your story on a future episode of the show. 2:11:08.960 --> 2:11:11.280 Thanks for listening and thanks for having me on.