WEBVTT - #425 Jason Flom with Larry Smith Jr. 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.360 On March twenty fourth, nineteen ninety four, a man named 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:07.960 Carl Voltz dropped off his friend Kenneth Hayes at twenty 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.719 two point fifty Annabel Street in Detroit, Michigan. As he 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:13.720 got out of the car, a gunman came out of 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:17.080 the darkness, fatally shooting Hayes as he struggled up the driveway. 0:00:19.040 --> 0:00:21.599 Neither Carl Volts nor anyone in the house had seen 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.200 the shooter's face. However, a car in the area belonged 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:28.200 to a young man named Jay Clay, which led investigators 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:32.320 to another young man named Larry Smith. The victim's landlord 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:35.240 said that Hayes's grow friend identified Larry, and the landlord's 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.320 son thought the assailant walked like Larry as well. Then 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:43.040 Shell Casings allegedly founded the scene with the same size 0:00:43.040 --> 0:00:47.760 as one allegedly found in Larry's laundry hamper. But this 0:00:48.479 --> 0:01:04.679 is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to wrongful conviction. Today's episode 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.520 is an episode well of full circles. And when I 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.959 say that we have somebody who listeners the show will 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:16.360 probably recognize one of my great heroes, Jared Adams, whose 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:20.520 full circle involved going from being wrongfully convicted himself, from 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:24.120 serving over a decade in a maximum security prison to 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:30.320 becoming a lawyer and helping other wrongfully convicted people get justice. Jarrett, 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:32.280 so great to have you back on the show. 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.520 Thank you. Jason, always a pleasure man. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.840 The other full circle here is the star of our show, 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.400 a gentleman named Larry Smith Junior. We're glad you're here. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:42.440 Thank you very much. 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:44.800 When I say full circle. This is a man who's 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.520 working at a rec center now in Detroit, Michigan, helping 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.760 senior citizens as well as youth. And it is Detroit 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:53.920 that he was snatched out of when he was just 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.720 a kid himself. But before we get into all of that, 0:01:56.920 --> 0:01:59.280 what was your life like growing up? Did you grow 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:00.280 up in a Detroit. 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:03.080 Yes, sir, I was the only child my mom. 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.000 She had me and then my siblings would come later, 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.240 like basically through it. I had adoption more or less. 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:09.960 But we was family. We grew up in the same 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.720 house and life was cool. My mom always told me 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:14.880 long as I worked, as long as I put forth 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.200 that effort, as long as I did well in school. 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:19.480 At the times was tough, but it was gonna come 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.359 a time when they wouldn't be so tough. She was 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:23.600 gonna have those degrees that she was going and working 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.880 so hard for, and that our life was just gonna 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:26.680 be different. 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:26.960 Great. 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:29.320 So right, I read here that your mom was studying 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.399 for her masters in sociology. Do you have similar aspirations? 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:35.080 I mean, you're just an eight year old kid at 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:37.480 the time. What did you have in mind? What did 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:38.400 you want to do with your life. 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.200 I was working and I was going to school, and 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:43.639 my attent was to become a respiratory therapist. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.119 I think my future was promising. 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.800 Yeah, and your nickname, I understand, was butter how'd that 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:49.360 come to be? 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:50.560 My mama? 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:52.240 Some with my mom when I was born? 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.960 My complexion And this is the Michigan story. And we've 0:02:55.960 --> 0:02:58.240 heard a lot of Michigan stories on this show, and 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:03.120 this was aticular time and place when people were being framed. 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.799 It's call it what it is like. It was day 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:06.680 in and day out. 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.440 You got to think about where Detroit was in the nineties, 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.360 just like a lot of the inner city neighborhoods dealing 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.080 with the crack epidemic and drugs and gangs and things 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.600 like that. So Detroit was dealing with a bunch of homicides, 0:03:21.200 --> 0:03:25.080 you know, And what they would do is try to 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:30.680 find ways to resolve unsolved homicides, and they would do 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.480 it in a way that would just downright be violating 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.320 people's constitutional rights. 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.680 So Larry fell into the cross hairs somehow, and it 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:41.720 didn't make sense because you were a kid who wasn't 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:43.280 on the radar, shouldn't have been on the raidar of 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.360 the police at all, which must have been tricky just 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:48.280 to avoid that life in the area and that time 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:50.480 and place that you were growing up in. But somehow 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.440 or other, you were navigating these challenges and then everything 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:58.760 went crazy. So Jared set the stage for the whole 0:03:58.840 --> 0:03:59.720 situation if you. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:01.920 Would, well, I think the best place to start with. 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.600 Set in the stage is Ralph Cartwright, who was addicted 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.280 to drugs along with his mom, Sondra cart Right, lived 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:13.200 together in a house that they used to rent out 0:04:13.320 --> 0:04:19.080 rooms to drug dealers to have a supply of drugs. 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.560 And in this case, the victim lived in one of 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:27.320 those rented rooms because he sold drugs and rob drug dealers. 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.080 Which is dangerous behavior to say the least. So the victim, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:34.600 Kenneth Hayes, was shot around five thirty am March twenty four, 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.440 eighty four, in front of the Cartwright's house at twenty 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.040 two fifty Annabel Street, Detroit, Michigan. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.200 The victim was called out of his house at the 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:44.800 middle of the night to do a drug deal. He 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:50.359 has someone drive him to an apartment complex. We assume 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.720 he makes a purchase or not he comes back. When 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.159 he's coming back and he's getting out of his vehicle 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.440 is when someone is lying in wait and runs out 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.960 of the bushes and fire shots. The victim takes off 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.680 and runs across the front of the car from whether 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:06.800 a person dropped them. 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.960 Off and the driver was mister Hayes's friend, a guy 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:11.360 named Carl Voltz, and. 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:15.240 Mister Volts saw the shooter and said, I couldn't see 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.000 anyone's face, but he gave a description, and it did 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:23.080 not match Larry at all. He described the man as 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:26.120 being heavy set. If you see any picture of Larry 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:30.039 from back then Larry is then you would not mistake 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.000 him for being heavy set at all. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:36.720 Right, But Carl Voltz's description was disregarded, as was the 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.880 statement of another witness, the victim's girlfriend, who was in 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.840 the house at the time of the shooting. What did 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:42.799 she tell the police? 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.680 She said exactly what she said to the Conviction and 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.400 Charity unit. Years later, she says she never saw anyone 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.120 shoot the victim. The victim was her boyfriend, so she 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.720 would have been honest about that. She said she was 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.520 still in the bed sleep and didn't see anything but 0:05:58.600 --> 0:05:59.400 herd the shots. 0:05:59.880 --> 0:06:00.000 No. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.320 No one knew about that statement until years later. Rather, 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.240 there was a statement from the landlord, Sandra Cartwright, who, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:10.039 as someone involved in drugs, she and Ralph were vulnerable 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:14.400 to police coercion. Well Cartwright attributed the following words to 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:18.040 the victim's girlfriend quote, I looked right in his face. 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.800 It was butter unquote and as we mentioned, that was 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.120 Larry's childhood nickname. 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.719 That same person denied ever saying that she saw Larry. 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.520 And she also told police the very same day that 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.880 they were investigating, that someone had came up to her 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.960 in a social club and told her that they were 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:40.919 going to kill her boyfriend, and she gave them the 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:44.960 name of that person. And they never went to go 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.560 talk to this guy investigate this guy. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.360 So instead of just an open and shut case, they 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.479 chased down a far less compelling lead than a drug 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.360 dealer who was recently robbed, and who knows what kind 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.280 of relationship that drug dealer had with law enforcement. So 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.279 this much less compelling lead was that one of the 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.800 witnesses had said that they saw a car that belonged 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.160 to a friend of Larry's name, Jay Clay, who delivered newspapers. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.680 But it was five thirty am, the typical newspaper delivery time, 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:14.840 and this was on his delivery route. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:19.239 Larry's friend has identified his vehicle driving past around the time. 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:23.559 He has a legitimate reason why. Now, something like that 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.040 in most cases isn't uncommon to be reported and followed 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.400 up on, But in Larry's case, they didn't follow up 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:34.600 on it to investigate it, to find out if it 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.800 was any truth of whether his friend was involved, well, 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:43.360 whether he was involved. They investigated to make them involved. 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:49.640 They apply pressure to Sondra Cartwright and made her come 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.600 up with a version of events that has been found 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:56.240 to be untrue, and the police knew because they had 0:07:56.280 --> 0:08:01.000 a police report from the young lady said she never 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:06.280 told Sandra cart Write anything about identifying Larry Smith as 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.160 shooting because she says she was never. 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:11.720 Up And then Ralph Cartwright supported his mother's narrative saying 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:14.040 that he didn't see Larry's face, but he recognized him 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:21.080 anyway in the area before and after the shooting. No, no, no, no, no, no, Like, 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:22.040 what does that even mean? 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:27.200 Larry was never identified ever at all by eyewitness. They 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.760 got the witness to say that the person that they 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.240 saw around the crow six, the way they walked was 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:38.760 similar to how that guy named Butter, you know, a 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.800 couple blocks down walked and also his freeend drives the car. 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.160 So you can see how if you want to make 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.360 that narrative fit, you can make it fit. 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:52.360 So we have Sandra cart Writ's secondhand identification even though 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.840 the alleged eyewitness said she never saw anyone, and then 0:08:56.360 --> 0:08:59.720 Ralph making an identification of Larry's walk which sounds like 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.560 some sort of like that's almost junk science to the 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.080 nth degree. But this was just a precursor to actual 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:12.520 junk science later when a Hancho brand footprint was allegedly 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.920 found at the scene. Now, Larry, this was in your neighborhood. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.920 Your friend Jay had probably overheard the shots. When did 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:18.480 you hear about it? 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.120 Well, my mom she called me at work, said she 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.880 wanted me to go to the police station. I ain't 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:27.280 asked no question, like okay, mama, I ain't did nothing, 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:30.079 I ain't involved in nothing. So I got my car 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:33.079 from work and I drove down there to me twenty 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.439 six years, ten months in seven days actually to come 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:48.480 home from that ride. 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.800 So as they're investigating the case, they've already gotten out 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.200 ahead of their skis. They've charged both Larry's friend and 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:04.240 Larry with this murder based solely off of this guy 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.480 who says he saw the vehicle and he's seeing a 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:11.079 guy running away who appears to walk like Larry, and 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:16.960 the third party statement of a lady who says someone 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:20.560 told them they saw, you know, Larry do it. So 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.040 the case immediately starts to fall apart because Jason it 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:28.000 wasn't true. On the day that Larry was arrested, the 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.840 police go inside of his house and they come out 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:37.839 and say, we found some shellcasings and these shellcasings, mattch 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:41.480 some shellcasings that are over at the crime scene right right. 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.440 They said forty caliber bullets were used, and then they 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.360 allegedly found an empty box of forty caliber bullets in 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.199 Larry's bedroom, as well as a spent shellcasing in his 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.760 laundry hamper, which was then said to have been fired 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:54.680 by the same weapon. 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.239 But then the autopsy report comes back and the autopsy 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.160 says the victim was not with the shallcasings that you 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.920 got from the crime scene or that you got from 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.680 Larry's house. He was shot with a smaller caliber weapon 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:11.640 and the bullet was left inside of him. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.760 Jesus Christ, it gets worse, It. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:16.520 Gets, it gets worse. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.320 Listens to it to keep from crying sometimes, I know. 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.520 But this is gonna really blow your mind. Now. So 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.840 as the weeks are going on and they're turning into months, 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:31.200 and they're realizing that they got the wrong guy right, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.080 the wrong two guys. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:36.000 But they still tried to square this circle. So let 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.320 me guess they accused Jay the paper boy of firing 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:40.040 at thirty two. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.480 The cold defendant is able to produce a lady, and 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.040 this is an older lady, very credible, no dog in 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.680 this fight. She says that that boy was on my 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.520 porch handing me the paper when we both heard the shots, 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:59.240 and so that definitively places the cold defendant delivering papers. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:03.880 So they dissed the charges against the co defendant, And 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.520 now said Larry did this all by himself and had 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.360 to be shooting with two guns and got away on 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:11.160 foot there with. 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.439 Two guns, like the wild West, like boo boom. 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.959 Boom with the wild West. It gets worse, Okay, when 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:18.559 they investigate further, they find out that the person who 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.800 dropped off the victim, mister Votes said, I couldn't see 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:26.280 anyone's face, but the guy was only firing from one gun. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:31.040 So literally every step that they took to frame Larry, 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:35.560 it was unraveling. So what they did was they reached 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:39.760 to an old trick and they produced a jail house 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:43.640 informant who put together a false story and he had 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.640 never even met or seen or was even housed with Larry. 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:51.320 So Larry, back to you. So now you're caught up 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.320 in this vortex. I mean, describe to us what it 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.520 was like. You go from the police station, they interrogate you, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.880 they took you straight to jail. From there, they kept. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.640 Me in jail like three days, and they put me 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:02.240 in a county. 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.160 How long were you in jail awaiting trial? 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:05.640 Eight months or something? 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.880 Did you get to sign a public defenders trash? 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.679 My mother, she took her last money and got an attorney. 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.240 He didn't do very well more or less like did 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.560 you ever heard the term somebody swap somebody out or 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.440 they don't do a great job. And I say that 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.440 because the guy who testified against me, the jail house person, 0:13:22.720 --> 0:13:24.880 he had testified against other people as well. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.160 He had a history and if. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.640 Somebody would when it did some type of investigation, it 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.880 was records that was in there, but the police and 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:32.960 the prosecutors had them. 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:34.679 They was in eight files, and. 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.720 It's possible that they never made those records available to 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.600 your attorney, just like the statement from the victim's girlfriend. 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.440 But had you known about this repeat offender snitch, that 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.520 could have crumbled their whole house of cards. But still, 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:53.200 even without that, this snitch, Edward Allen, his story was 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.559 full of holes. He alleged that you had bragged about 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.280 how you killed Kenneth Hayes with a glock nine millimeter 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.760 guns right while J. Clay had a forty five caliber. 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.959 So he got the calibers wrong and the number of 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:12.480 assailants wrong. Pretty important details. But nonetheless, the state went 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:15.760 to trial in November of ninety four, presenting the cart rights, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.120 this erroneous snitch testimony, as well as the forty caliber 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.960 shell casings, which allegedly served as this connection between Larry 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.640 and the crime scene, even though the victim was killed 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.280 by a thirty two caliber weapon and the only actual eyewitness, 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.880 Carl Voltz, said that the shooter fired only one gun. 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.160 Yeah, so you know, the police tried to frame Larry. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:40.080 It was a plant of forty caliber shalecasinges at and 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.440 around the scene of the shooting, and that these showcases 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:48.280 were recovered from Larry's house, and when the ballistics came 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.440 back from the autopsy, it clearly was not the same 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.280 caliber and there was some explaining to do. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.920 Yet they still presented a police technician and a detective 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.560 that testified about the forty caliber bullets found at the 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.800 scene in Larry's house, followed by a medical examiner who 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.400 testified about the thirty two caliber bullets found in the 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:08.320 body of the victim. 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.960 Yeah, and the bullet is so much bigger on a 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:11.840 forty caliber. 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.680 They even presented a police firearms expert, David Pouch, who 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:19.040 testified to that fact, but he also testified that the 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.760 forty caliber casings found at Larry's house were fired by 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.280 the same gun as the casings from the scene, So 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.800 in other words, just doubling down on the two gun theory. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:33.320 Even though the only real eyewitness, Carl Votes, has said 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.480 he never saw anything but one person shooting with one gun. 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:39.320 Carl testified that as soon as the victim got out 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.800 of the car, someone ran out of a gangway and 0:15:41.840 --> 0:15:46.240 opened fire on him, who he described in detail, and 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.400 the description did not match Larry at all. 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.040 While Carl Bowles exonerated Larry, if the jury were to 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.280 believe him over law enforcement, it would have meant that 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.160 those shells had to have been planted in Larry's house, 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.040 which was something it seems like they were not willing 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.640 to accept. It would have also meant that two more 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:05.920 officials who took the stand and claimed that Larry had 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:09.360 made incriminating statements to them while in custody, had actually 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:10.280 perjured themselves. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.840 They did purged themselves, I mean, point blank period. 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.080 They lot, but somehow they had muddied the waters enough 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:19.200 with the casing allegedly found at Larry's house and the scene, 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.560 in addition to a bootprint that was found at the 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.160 scene that they matched with the Hancho brand boot taken 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.680 from Larry's house. When the shoe print analyst took the stand, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.080 the prosecutor asked, quote, and these are a mirror image 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.240 of that pattern, end quote to which the expert agreed. 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:38.400 If I found a pair of prints for air Jordans, 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.080 what does that mean nothing? 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.680 There are other Air Jordans, just like there are other 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.320 Hancho brand boots. I mean right, It's like, did they 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.760 only manufacture one pair? It's insane, which is one reason 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:55.560 why shoeprint analysis is such bullshit, especially when there's no 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:56.880 other corroborating information. 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.880 The boot was a boot that his cousin had a 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.840 bag full of other clothes. They never provided any context 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:05.440 to this boot. They never said they saw any mud 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.600 on the boots, that the boots had looked like it 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:11.280 had been worn at all. There was never any pictures 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:13.720 matched up to the prints of the boots. The shit 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:15.520 was all made up. 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:18.280 And you can hear the shoe print analysis episode of 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.600 Wrongful Conviction junk signs that we're gonna have linked in 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.600 the bio. I just listened to it again myself. It's 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:25.760 it's mind boggling. So now we get to our witnesses. 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.720 Let's start with Sandra cart Right, who testified about the 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:33.119 victim's girlfriend's alleged identification. Quote I looked him right in 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.840 the face. It was butter end quote. 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:38.320 Yeah, I looked him right in the face. And Sandra 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:43.359 cart Wright had an open case against her, and she 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:46.119 didn't come to court to testify. On a day that 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.280 she was called, the police issued a warrant for her arrest, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.480 and in exchange for her testifying, they dismissed the charges 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:54.960 that were pending against her. 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.440 So incentivized to say the least. But this statement was 0:17:58.480 --> 0:18:01.440 a second hand account. What about the girlfriend herself? 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.480 She was never called to court. It was some trickery. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.560 And you know, there were some shortcomings of Larry's defense. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.960 I'll just say that a fast one was gotten over 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.200 on them, and this witness was never called. I don't 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:18.000 believe that the defense team ever had the police report 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.560 that was taken the night of from the witness who 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:24.000 says that she never saw anyone. I believe if they 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:26.159 had that they would have called her. Because we know 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:30.760 that Larry himself didn't learn of it until after his 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.280 post conviction lawyer had obtained it. And this was already 0:18:34.320 --> 0:18:35.240 a decade later. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:39.680 Wow, So the judge, jury and defense were completely unaware 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:44.200 of the girlfriend's actual statement just Sandra cart writes secondhand 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:47.800 testimony to the contrary with no opportunity to cross examine 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:49.119 the actual eyewitness. 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.600 And not only can they not cross examine this person, 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.280 but now you have a jail house in Foreignert coming 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.720 in and you know, he's like, yeah, he told me 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.600 he did it, and things like that, and so you 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.800 put that together, it's the perfect storm. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.280 And I understand that the inconsistencies between the guns and 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.160 the snitch testimony and the thirty two caliber bullets pulled 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:11.560 from the body of the victim that was never pointed out. 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.280 I didn't know nothing about this guy testified that gives 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:16.679 me doing what he had a history of doing. Like 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.919 I just knew I didn't say nothing to him. I 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.520 knew I didn't say nothing to no police, that I 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:22.800 didn't commit no crime. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:28.000 So the fabricated evidence appears to have overcome the only 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:32.680 actual eyewitness, Carl Voltz, as well as your mother who 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:35.400 testified about how you were in your basement bedroom all 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:36.000 night long. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.280 She knew Larry was in the house because she was 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.560 in the front room finishing up their dissertation to complete 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.720 her Masters and it was only one way Larry could 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:47.280 get out of his room. He would have to come 0:19:47.359 --> 0:19:49.440 up the stairs and go out the front door. 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.480 When they said guilty, man, do you know that? 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:53.040 My lawyer? 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:54.760 When I asked him, I said what they say. He 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.400 pushed away from me like he was scared. He didn't 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:59.439 even want to talk to me. He wanted to be 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:02.680 separated from me. And it was like, you got my life. 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:19.120 Man helped me, you know, helped me. Goodness, man, I'm sorry. 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.280 I went to Riverside quarantine. First, they brought us off 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:30.800 a bus, all of us together, and they had a 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:32.840 woman strip searchers like they had a man tell us 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.960 take all our clothes off, and they had a lady 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:39.080 inspectors like we was cattle. This introduction into institutions, it 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.280 was like experience and the closest thing that I could 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:45.240 see slaves having. My second day in general population, I've 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.000 seen a guy get raped. I walked in the shower 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:49.000 on the guy was getting raped. Eight months seeing I've 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:50.119 seen a guy get killed. 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:52.040 I stayed there about ten months. 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.560 From there, they send me up north to u RF 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:56.480 and that stand for you are fucked. 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.040 They had on KKK. 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:02.240 Belt buckles, tattoos and that you would have to fight 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.359 with the guards period, and if you didn't fight the guard, 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:07.360 you had to go to the hole for a year. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.280 If you whooped the guard, then you was the man. 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.520 If you didn't whoop the guard or you was refused 0:21:12.520 --> 0:21:15.000