WEBVTT - James Cleverley Talks Conservative Party Leadership

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<v Speaker 1>Now I'm joined by James Cleverly, who is one of

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<v Speaker 1>the four candidates to lead the Conservative Party. James, thanks

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<v Speaker 1>so much for joining me. I want to start with

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<v Speaker 1>the latest from the Middle East, because of course you

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<v Speaker 1>are also former Foreign secretary. Israel says that it started

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<v Speaker 1>targeted ground raids in Lebanon. Has Benjaminettaya who gone too far?

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<v Speaker 2>So we have to understand that Israel has been receiving

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<v Speaker 2>rocket attacks from Hezbollah based out of southern Lebanon for months.

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<v Speaker 2>When I went to Israel as foreign sectory in the

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<v Speaker 2>days immediately after the October the seventh atrocities, I warned

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<v Speaker 2>the leadership around Israel in the Arab world, and I

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<v Speaker 2>sent the message via intermediaries to know through to the

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<v Speaker 2>leadership of these Iranian proxy terror organizations that it would

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<v Speaker 2>be really counterproductive for them to try and further provoke

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<v Speaker 2>at Israel. Clearly that's exactly what they've done, and Israel

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<v Speaker 2>has responded. Israel has the right to self defense. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and those rockets have been landing in civilian or aimed

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<v Speaker 2>at civilian territory in Israel for months.

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<v Speaker 1>But when has this gone too far? If it becomes

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<v Speaker 1>a larger and longer term operation. Should the UK suspend

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<v Speaker 1>more arms licenses to Israel or is our support unconditional?

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<v Speaker 2>No, It's what this is about is we've got to

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<v Speaker 2>recognize the sequencing here. Israel was attacked by terrorists from Gaza.

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<v Speaker 2>They then took action to recover hostages and people that

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<v Speaker 2>have been murdered from Gaza. Hezbollah, based in southern Lebanon,

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<v Speaker 2>nowhere near Gaza, took that as an opportunity to start

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<v Speaker 2>sending missiles into Israel. The Huthis, based nowhere near Gaza,

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<v Speaker 2>took that as an opportunity to send missiles into Israel.

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<v Speaker 2>Israel is now defending itself. I've always said to the

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<v Speaker 2>Israelis that we support their right to self defense, and

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<v Speaker 2>I stand by that. I've always said to the Israelis,

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<v Speaker 2>to the President, to the Prime Minister, to the Defense Minister,

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<v Speaker 2>they have to do so within the framework of international

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<v Speaker 2>humanitarian law. But you've got to remember the rockets came

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<v Speaker 2>into Israel before Israel sent troops into southern Lebanon.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's turn to your leadership, bid now. We're expecting

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<v Speaker 1>you to say later today that Tories should be fighting

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<v Speaker 1>four things rather than always appearing to be against change

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<v Speaker 1>and for you that includes being four building more homes.

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<v Speaker 1>Will you let more migrants in to build those homes?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what we should be doing is making sure that

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<v Speaker 2>we develop skills with British workers. I think vocational training,

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<v Speaker 2>lifelong training, skills training is absolutely key. Not everyone wants

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<v Speaker 2>to wear a suit and sit behind a desk.

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<v Speaker 1>And everyone wants to build homes.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely But the point is if we if we make

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<v Speaker 2>those really key skills high status once again as they

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<v Speaker 2>once were, make sure that they are well paid as

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<v Speaker 2>they once were. There is every reason why British people

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<v Speaker 2>should be in the building trade and proud to be

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<v Speaker 2>in the building trade. So our first port of call

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<v Speaker 2>should not be importing cheap labor. We've done that for

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<v Speaker 2>far too long and actually the OBR now shows us

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<v Speaker 2>it is not a net benefit to the British economy.

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<v Speaker 2>So we shouldn't slip down that route again, and I

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't do.

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<v Speaker 1>That, But of course wage inflation is a key concern

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<v Speaker 1>for the Bank of England with its inflation problem. You

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<v Speaker 1>also say that you want to cut the cost of childcare,

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<v Speaker 1>would you relax those migration rules to let in more

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<v Speaker 1>childcare workers?

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<v Speaker 2>Now again, that We can't just keep We can't just

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<v Speaker 2>keep going back to the old levers. We have tried,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know we were punished by the voters for this.

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<v Speaker 2>We as a society, we have slipped into the habit

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<v Speaker 2>of turning into cheap imported labor to solve all our

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<v Speaker 2>problems rather than productivity. One of the points I was

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<v Speaker 2>making about childcare is government intervention through red tape and

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<v Speaker 2>tax has made it more expensive than in France or

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<v Speaker 2>in Germany. We then tax working mums in order to

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<v Speaker 2>subsidize those working mums to pay for the childcare that

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<v Speaker 2>we made more expensive. It is a nonsense. We should

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<v Speaker 2>be reducing the cost of childcare, having career to child

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<v Speaker 2>ratios more in line with our European counterparts. That would

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<v Speaker 2>bring down the cost, rather than having to tax working

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<v Speaker 2>mums in order to subsidize the process.

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<v Speaker 1>As suppose, I'm trying to work out if you're serious

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<v Speaker 1>about these ideas or if you're telling people what they

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<v Speaker 1>want to hear. Because you served loyally in the Johnson

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<v Speaker 1>Trust and Sunat government, so people want to know what

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<v Speaker 1>you've stand for. What is cleverlyism?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, so when I was a minister in someone else's administration.

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<v Speaker 2>I abided by a collective responsibility and I would often

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<v Speaker 2>be the spokesperson for that Prime minister. I am putting

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<v Speaker 2>my forward. I'm putting myself forward to be the next

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<v Speaker 2>Conservative Prime Minister of this country. So it is now

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<v Speaker 2>it's not just appropriate, but I am duty bound to

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<v Speaker 2>set out my vision and what that So my vision

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<v Speaker 2>is a more productive economy. We have regulated ourselves to

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<v Speaker 2>be a less productive economy than many of our international competitors.

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<v Speaker 2>That has got to change. We are too highly taxed

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<v Speaker 2>compared with many of our international competitors. That has got

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<v Speaker 2>to change, so less tax, less red tape. We've also

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<v Speaker 2>got to make sure we are properly defended, which is

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<v Speaker 2>why I'm committed to three percent of defense spending. And

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<v Speaker 2>also when I say less tax I don't just mean

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<v Speaker 2>nibbling away at margins, which is really important. I want

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure we send a message both domestically and

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<v Speaker 2>internationally that Britain is open for business. We're going to build, build, build,

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to get our economy firing again. We're going

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<v Speaker 2>to do that by taking the limiters away to unlock potential,

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<v Speaker 2>both in individuals and in British based businesses. We've got

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<v Speaker 2>to get the energy optimism, positivity, but some real energy

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<v Speaker 2>and that will attract international investors and support British worker.

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<v Speaker 1>Just to go back to defense, since you say it's

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<v Speaker 1>central to your vision, is the UK government doing enough

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<v Speaker 1>to extract those British citizens from Lebanon?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when I was foreign sectary, I changed the travel

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<v Speaker 2>advice to advise people not to go to Lebanon. The

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<v Speaker 2>British government has been telling people for weeks they should

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<v Speaker 2>they should leave Lebanon. The point is it may well

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<v Speaker 2>be it is quite likely to be impossible to do

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<v Speaker 2>a facilitated evacuation from Leven. This is why we tell

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<v Speaker 2>people to leave. If people don't leave, we can't guarantee

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<v Speaker 2>that we can get them out, which is why we

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<v Speaker 2>told them to leave in the first place.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and you say that economics is going to be

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<v Speaker 1>at the heart of your vision. I was listening to

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<v Speaker 1>Liz Trust yesterday. She said she hadn't seen any evidence

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<v Speaker 1>that any of you running for the Tory leadership really

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<v Speaker 1>understand why things are so bad for the Conservatives. Is

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<v Speaker 1>she right?

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I'm a really good friend of Liz. She was

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<v Speaker 2>a good boss when she was foreign sectary.

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<v Speaker 1>She's not back to you, She's not back to anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>No, she's not back to anyone. We're trying to understand.

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<v Speaker 2>None of the former prime ministers have are backed the

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<v Speaker 2>leadership candidates, and that makes perfect sense. I don't always

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<v Speaker 2>agree with Liz, and I don't agree with her on

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<v Speaker 2>this case. I am setting out a very very clear agenda,

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<v Speaker 2>which is to ease the tax burden on both businesses

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<v Speaker 2>and individuals to really get activity back in the UK economy.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to push for greater productivity, particularly when excessive

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<v Speaker 2>regulation is stifling that productivity. I want to make sure

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<v Speaker 2>that we defend ourselves properly. Three percent is an upturn

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<v Speaker 2>from where we are at the moment, but three percent

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<v Speaker 2>on defense is considerably less expensive than going to war.

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<v Speaker 2>Ukraine is spending forty percent of its GDP on de

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<v Speaker 2>ending itself. Three percent is cheap and creating a safe

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<v Speaker 2>environment is good for British people, good for British.

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<v Speaker 1>Business, which Trump right on NATO.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that I've been advocating that all NATO members spent

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<v Speaker 2>at least that two percent. I speak to friends in

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<v Speaker 2>Eastern Europe who are literally bordering Russia and they are

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<v Speaker 2>crying out for all NATO members to spend the two percent,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a commitment that Karris Bay commitment is really,

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<v Speaker 2>really key. I've always said that I want to go further.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to spend three percent of GDP on defense.

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<v Speaker 1>And you know you talk about business regulation, cutting red tape,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet there are very few CEOs here. Why do

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<v Speaker 1>you think they've abandoned the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I we've got to recognize that we're not in

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<v Speaker 2>government anymore. Of course, people want to influence the party

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<v Speaker 2>of government and because we dropped the ball that is

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<v Speaker 2>not us. We need to win back the ear of

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<v Speaker 2>British business, British voters, British people. I know that I

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<v Speaker 2>am best placed to do that. That is why I

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<v Speaker 2>am running, and that is why I know I'd be

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<v Speaker 2>the best leader of the opposition and ultimately take us

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<v Speaker 2>back into government and become Prime minister.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you worry that Kemmy Badenox's comments on maternity pay

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<v Speaker 1>are going to put women off the party.

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<v Speaker 2>Well they shouldn't. This is a party that has had

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<v Speaker 2>not one, not two, but three female prime ministers. We

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<v Speaker 2>promote on merit I very much, and I've made this point.

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<v Speaker 2>I really value, the embedded talent in working women, and

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<v Speaker 2>those who want to go back to work should be

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<v Speaker 2>able to do so. The cost of childcare, as I say,

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<v Speaker 2>is putting a lot of them off. That's what I

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<v Speaker 2>want to tackle, so that everyone in society, whether you're

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<v Speaker 2>a parent or not, can play an active part in

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<v Speaker 2>the economy, and that will remain a priority for me.

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<v Speaker 1>But just finally, some of the briefing again, kemmy Badenock

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<v Speaker 1>has been pretty toxic. Are you Tom Tooganheart and Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Jenerick colluding against her?

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, no no. I've made it absolutely clear

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<v Speaker 2>in my campaign right from the start that we would

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<v Speaker 2>run an optimistic and positive campaign. I said, anyone in

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<v Speaker 2>my team involved in blue and Blue is off the team.

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<v Speaker 2>No yellow card, no second chance, You're off the team.

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<v Speaker 2>I intend to campaign as I intend to lead, as

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<v Speaker 2>I intend to govern, which is by putting the best

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<v Speaker 2>foot forward, being optimistic, promoting my values and my ideas,

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<v Speaker 2>and not talking down of my friends, because every single

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<v Speaker 2>one of these other candidates is not just a colleague

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<v Speaker 2>but also a friend.

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<v Speaker 1>The manager James Cleverly, Shadow Home Secretary well hoping to

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<v Speaker 1>be the next leader of the Conservative Party, good to

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<v Speaker 1>join you in Birmingham. Thank you, thanks very much.