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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: All hgule Ll breaks loose when someone discovers a female

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Speaker 2: torso and a dumpster. It doesn't take California police very

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Speaker 2: long to track the torso to one person, the son

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Speaker 2: of a famous Hollywood agent.

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Speaker 1: The son Sam Haskell.

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Speaker 2: Not only is his wife missing, but so are his

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Speaker 2: in laws. In the last days, accused killer Sam Haskell

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Speaker 2: appears in an LA courtroom and a judge delays setting

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Speaker 2: the date for a preliminary hearing on whether Haskell will

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Speaker 2: stand trial for murdering his wife and parents. What's the

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Speaker 2: hold up? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us. You know, isn't it odd

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Speaker 2: that whenever really rich defendants are involved, there's always delays

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Speaker 2: and sticky situations in court. Let me tell you if

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Speaker 2: someone that wasn't educated, privileged, wealthy was charged with the

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Speaker 2: murder and dismemberment of his wife and likely murders and

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Speaker 2: dismemberment of his in laws, they would be under the jail.

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Speaker 2: So what's the hold up with Sam Haskell? He keeps

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Speaker 2: showing up in court showing off his muscles without a

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Speaker 2: shirt on. You know, what do I need to see

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Speaker 2: that how did the whole thing start.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this.

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Speaker 3: Police said they got a call from one of Sam

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Speaker 3: Haskell's neighbors who reported seeing suspicious bags outside the Tarzana

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Speaker 3: home and the bags appear to have body parts in them.

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Speaker 3: LAPD Detective E from Gutierrez the RIDA calling.

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Speaker 4: The RIMA seventh at about five point thirty pm involved

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Speaker 4: the suspicious bag they possibly contain the human reoms. When

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Speaker 4: the officers responded, nothing was located.

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Speaker 3: Even though nothing was located, an investigation was launched.

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Speaker 1: This is what we know.

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Speaker 2: The original call to police, we first thought was from neighbors,

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Speaker 2: but now it appears to be from some construction workers

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Speaker 2: in the area.

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Speaker 1: What a twisted story. Listen.

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Speaker 3: The men try to report what they've seen to the police,

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Speaker 3: but it turned away twice. The men went to the

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Speaker 3: Highway of Patrol station first, but we're told they had

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Speaker 3: to go to the Los Angeles Police Department. The LAPD

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Speaker 3: Topanga station tells the men to go back outside and

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Speaker 3: call nine to one one from the courtyard.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got an all star panel to make sense

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Speaker 2: of what we know right now about three missing people

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Speaker 2: and a woman's torso that has been found in a

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Speaker 2: dumpster there in LA. But first to Alexis Terrestok joining

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Speaker 2: me from this jurisdiction Crime online dot com investigative.

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Speaker 1: Reporter Alexis, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: So I mean, bottom line, Alexis police and not one

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Speaker 2: but two locations send these citizens trying to report what

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Speaker 2: they think is a bag of body parts on a

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Speaker 2: wild goose chase, a scavenger hunt, so to speak.

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Speaker 5: They do.

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Speaker 6: They went, they had these trash bags.

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Speaker 1: They thought, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 6: This is not something normal.

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Speaker 7: This is probably body parts.

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Speaker 6: We think this is what it is. They go to

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Speaker 6: a police station. The police say, well, where did you

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Speaker 6: get these bags from? Oh, you got it from this

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Speaker 6: house over there. You need to go to that jurisdiction.

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Speaker 6: Didn't look at the bags, nothing at all. Probably didn't

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Speaker 6: even believe them. So they send it to the next place.

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Speaker 6: They're like, yeah, you got to.

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Speaker 7: Call nine one one.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is right out of a movie.

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Speaker 2: Let me go to Chris mcdona, joining me, director of

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Speaker 2: the Cold Case Foundation, former homicide detective, host of a

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel. The interview room where I found them. Chris mcdona, Uh,

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Speaker 2: have you ever seen Home Alone? Okay, I know you

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Speaker 2: know where I'm going. Where the mom calls. I believe

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Speaker 2: this must have been Home Alone two where she calls

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Speaker 2: from Paris and she gets sent to one person, and

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Speaker 2: then they knock on the wall, and they send the

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Speaker 2: phone to the next person, and back and forth and

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Speaker 2: back and forth. She never gets the right police officer,

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Speaker 2: and finally starts calling neighbors. I know that is a funny,

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Speaker 2: a comical example of what we're talking about, but really,

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Speaker 2: these people are trying to report a bag of human

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Speaker 2: body parts and they get sent on a wild goose chase.

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Speaker 2: I tell you what, if I were the police chief,

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Speaker 2: which of course I'm not, I would totally clean a

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Speaker 2: house over who chose not to take a report on

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Speaker 2: a bag of body parts?

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Speaker 4: Chris McDonough And I can bet you answer your hundred

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Speaker 4: percent right.

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Speaker 8: This is out of a Hollywood horror movie. And that

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Speaker 8: police chief Moore, Michael Moore, who's a LAPD chief. Now

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Speaker 8: he's going to be questioning a lot of folks.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hope he does more than question them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you get a call about body parts, you

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Speaker 2: better go like grease lightning to investigate. And that delay

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Speaker 2: cost the case a lot of time and possibly a

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Speaker 2: lot of evidence.

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Speaker 1: Let's move forward. Listen.

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Speaker 3: LAPD detective he from Gutiera says, early the next morning,

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Speaker 3: police received another call about human remains.

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Speaker 4: The caller was a homeless man that was digging through

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Speaker 4: the dumpster to look for recyclables and discovered what he

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Speaker 4: will need to be a human remains.

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Speaker 3: All that was recovered was the torso fine, there were

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Speaker 3: clues in the bag just.

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Speaker 4: From a visual inspection. The stage of the decomposition were

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Speaker 4: relatively early, so no more than a day or two.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad that an untrained cop can look in

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Speaker 2: and tell me the level of decomposition.

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Speaker 1: But actually he may be right. You know, let me

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Speaker 1: go to.

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Speaker 2: Choice Layton, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us out

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Speaker 2: of this jurisdiction LA. You know, if there were anywhere else,

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Speaker 2: I would just assume they were the same body parts,

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Speaker 2: But in LA they could be entirely.

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Speaker 1: A different set of body parts.

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Speaker 2: But logically speaking, Choice Layton, do you think they could

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Speaker 2: then add two plus two equals these are the same

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Speaker 2: set of body parts as we got reported yesterday.

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Speaker 9: Well, the corner and medical examiner, which are the same

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Speaker 9: here in Los Angeles. They're going to start having to

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Speaker 9: piece these things back together. So the body parts that

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Speaker 9: were recovered by these construction workers and whatever was found

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Speaker 9: by this homeless person, it's not going to take very

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Speaker 9: long for them to decide if that's the same body part.

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Speaker 9: And the Robbery Homicide Division of LAPD, which is the

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Speaker 9: most elite squad in the LAPD, is going to be

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Speaker 9: investigating and try and put two and two together.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Michelle Duprey is joining me Forensic Pathologists, medical examiner,

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Speaker 2: former detective, author of Money, Mischief and Murder, The Murdoch

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Speaker 2: Saga the rest of the story on Amazon, and she

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Speaker 2: literally wrote the book, The Homicide Investigation Field Guide, Doctor

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Speaker 2: d Prix.

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Speaker 1: We're all talking.

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Speaker 2: About bags of body parts, but to this victim or

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Speaker 2: victim's family, the discussion of body parts that is their

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Speaker 2: loved one, that is their daughter, their sister, their mom,

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Speaker 2: the their dad, their grandpa, that we're talking about body parts,

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Speaker 2: body parts.

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Speaker 7: You're absolutely right, Nancy, these are somebody's family. They are

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Speaker 7: you know, I'm obviously there upset about this and it's

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Speaker 7: a tragic thing to find.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not just.

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Speaker 2: The shock ultimately learning that you have lost someone you love,

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Speaker 2: possibly that you love more than anything else in the world,

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Speaker 2: but then finding out that they are a crime victim,

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Speaker 2: a murder victim, and then to find out that they

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Speaker 2: have been dismembered, that their dead body has been defiled

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Speaker 2: in such a horrible, horrible way. To doctor Gary Pricato,

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Speaker 2: clinical psychologist, author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence

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Speaker 2: of Modern Violent Crime. Now that is a read, Doctor Pracato,

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Speaker 2: That's a lot for one person to take in. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I remember when my fiance was murdered. At first I

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Speaker 2: just assumed that there had been a car crash, and

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Speaker 2: then I found out he was murdered, and frankly, I

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Speaker 2: don't remember a whole lot after that. But to then

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Speaker 2: learn that someone dismembered the person you love more than

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Speaker 2: anything else in the world, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: How do you make a comeback after that?

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Speaker 10: Extremely difficult because a person would have to make some

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Speaker 10: kind of meaning out of what it is that happened

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Speaker 10: in their life, some kind of existential or spiritual meaning,

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Speaker 10: and to try to go out in the world and

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Speaker 10: battle that kind of darkness so that other people don't

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Speaker 10: have to experience it. And people that I've worked with

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Speaker 10: who have been victims of violent crime it seems to

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Speaker 10: be the only way that they're able to make any

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Speaker 10: sense of purpose out of it.

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Speaker 1: What is happening?

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Speaker 2: One set of remains found or spotted outside of home.

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Speaker 2: Police finally get there after sending the civilian informant on

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Speaker 2: a wild goose chase.

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Speaker 1: When they get there, no more remains. It's gone.

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Speaker 2: They don't execute a sortch warn't they do nothing? I

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Speaker 2: mean they don't have an enough evidence to execute a

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Speaker 2: search warrant in the home. The next day it's reported

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Speaker 2: that there is a female torso found in a dumpster.

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Speaker 2: Let's pick it up right there, take a listen to

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Speaker 2: our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 3: The LAPD says that when they processed the scene where

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Speaker 3: the torso in the bank were found in a dumpster,

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Speaker 3: the investigation provided detectives with information that led them to

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Speaker 3: the residence of Samuel Haskell.

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Speaker 2: Sam Haskell the Fourth who is that listen?

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Speaker 3: Sam Haskell the Fourth is the son of Sam Haskell

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Speaker 3: the Third, an Emmy Award winning producer who was a

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Speaker 3: high profile agent with Hollywood's William Morris Talent agency, where

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Speaker 3: he represented a list stars like George Clooney, would be Goldberg,

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Speaker 3: Dolly Parton and many others. Haskell the Fourth list himself

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Speaker 3: as a director and posted several clips online of low

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Speaker 3: budget videos he wrote in filmed. Former Real Housewives of

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Speaker 3: Beverly hillstar Brandy Glanville appears in one of the clips

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Speaker 3: for a movie which appears to be a high school

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Speaker 3: little teen drama.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Sam Haskell the fourth, the Hollywood superagent's son accused of

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Speaker 2: killing and dismembering his wife and murdering her parents, who

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Speaker 2: only moved in to help them raise the children while

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Speaker 2: their daughter supported lazy Sam Haskell the Fourth was in

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Speaker 2: court again, this time facing the LA judge who will

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Speaker 2: decide if he will stand trial for the horrific slayings.

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Speaker 1: Sam Haskell, thirty.

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Speaker 2: Six old enough to know better, has been on suicide

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Speaker 2: watch at LA's notorious Twin Towers jail since his arrest.

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Speaker 2: He was led into the LA Superior Court shackled and

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Speaker 2: bare chested, just as he was at.

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Speaker 1: Prior court appearance.

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Speaker 2: This man put on a shirt and by the way,

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Speaker 2: if you don't know a horse, look at his track record.

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Speaker 2: This guy has never done anything for other people. It's

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Speaker 2: always about him. His in laws moved in with them

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Speaker 2: to take care of the children so his beautiful wife

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Speaker 2: could work like a dog to pay the house note

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Speaker 2: while he did what flint around town and work out

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Speaker 2: in a local gym. Oh, this guy cares too much

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Speaker 2: about himself to commit suicide. Of course, I am not

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Speaker 2: a doctor, a medical doctor, but everything this guy has

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Speaker 2: ever done screams me.

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Speaker 1: Me, Me, Me me.

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Speaker 2: Sporting a shorter haircut and his heavily tattooed upper torso

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Speaker 2: he looks like he's blowing kisses at the camera. He

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Speaker 2: kept looking around the courtroom as if searching for people

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Speaker 2: he might know.

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Speaker 1: There were no family or.

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Speaker 2: Friends present, mostly because he killed them. But I did

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Speaker 2: notice his father, the superagent, and the rest of his

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Speaker 2: family didn't show up. And yes he's pictured in court

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Speaker 2: shirtless again. High school of course. Accused are murdering and dismembered.

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Speaker 2: He dismembering his wife, Maylee, with whom he shared three

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Speaker 2: beautiful children. Her dismember body was found in November. So

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Speaker 2: Sam Haskell the fourth is a son of a high

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Speaker 2: powered talent agent who was known as the quote.

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Speaker 1: Good guy of Hollywood.

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Speaker 2: The dad High School three was the CEO, I believe

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Speaker 2: of the Miss America pageant for many many years. Has

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Speaker 2: I think still working with Dolly Parton in her Magnoia productions.

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Speaker 2: I mean the dad is renowned. In fact, I think

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Speaker 2: he was the world wide head of TV work for

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Speaker 2: William Morris.

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Speaker 1: Do I have that right?

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Speaker 6: Haskell three the father, he it was, but he was

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Speaker 6: the head of the pageants.

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Speaker 7: He was.

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Speaker 6: He separated from the pageant organization about a year ago.

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Speaker 2: Over just be regarding some emails, but correct. That leads

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Speaker 2: me to the son Haskell four. Now, from what I understand,

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Speaker 2: this guy Haskell four has directed a few things, including

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Speaker 2: working with Tiger and Machine Gun Kelly, but he never

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Speaker 2: reached the level of his father's fame.

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 6: Correct? Not in any way, shape or form. And he

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Speaker 6: mostly put things on social media where he would do videos,

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Speaker 6: you know, on TikTok.

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Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I'm so glad you said that. Let's

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Speaker 2: take a listen to Sam Haskell four, the fourth on

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Speaker 2: social media. His TikTok. This is our cut fourteen, like.

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Speaker 11: My resume says, unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently never

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Speaker 11: going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter at

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Speaker 11: the restaurant above, nor drums for just like completely burning

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Speaker 11: out of my filet, like what kind of a monster

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Speaker 11: are you? Homie?

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Speaker 1: What what Sidney? Can I hear that again?

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Speaker 11: Like my resume says unhappy, bitter, resentful. Now I'm consistently

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Speaker 11: never going to stop drinking. Shout out to the waiter

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Speaker 11: at the restaurant above nor drums for just like completely

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Speaker 11: burning out of my file at, like, what kind of

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Speaker 11: a monster are you? Homie?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this guy, Sam Haskell the fourth is living in a.

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Speaker 1: Nearly three million dollars home.

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Speaker 2: In Tarzana, which is a really beautiful area around LA.

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Speaker 2: He's got an enclosed backyard I've seen it myself, with

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Speaker 2: a gorgeous pool, a play area for his children, the works.

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Speaker 1: It's a six bedroom home.

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Speaker 2: And he is whining that he's unhappy, bitter and resentful.

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Speaker 1: He's never going to stop drinking.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for sharing and complaining that the waiter at the

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Speaker 2: restaurant on top of North Troms, I.

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Speaker 1: Guess it's at the Tabanga Mall. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 2: North Troms, which is a really expensive department store, burned

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Speaker 2: his filet Mignon and I, okay, Alexis, tell me about

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Speaker 2: this area because I've seen it and it's really beautiful.

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Speaker 6: It is Tarzana is part of Los Angeles County. It's

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Speaker 6: a little bit away from downtown in the valley. But

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Speaker 6: so it's beautiful, lush, green homes, you know, very spaced out,

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Speaker 6: not right on.

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Speaker 5: Top of each other at all.

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Speaker 6: You know, tree lined streets, really good schools around there,

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Speaker 6: nice areas for your kids to play. Nice you know,

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Speaker 6: restaurants and malls where you could take your kids, parks,

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Speaker 6: you know, the dumpster. Everything is right near a park.

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Speaker 6: Just a lovely area that for somebody who doesn't seem

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Speaker 6: to work, you would think probably maybe his parents bought

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Speaker 6: this very expensive home for him and they just moved

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Speaker 6: there in December of twenty twenty, so in the middle

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Speaker 6: of the pandemic they moved.

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Speaker 2: And joining me right now is a special guest. It

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Speaker 2: is l Been and me. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: We're all trying to figure out what exactly is happening.

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Speaker 2: You are a friend and neighbor of May and Sam

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Speaker 2: Haskell the fourth.

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Speaker 1: What can you tell us about them?

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Speaker 5: So they moved to the neighborhood, like you said, in

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Speaker 5: December twenty twenty January twenty twenty one, during the pandemic

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Speaker 5: and from the beginning, I did think that they were.

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Speaker 5: It struck me that they were very different Sam and May.

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Speaker 5: He was She's extremely outgoing. Right when she moved in here,

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Speaker 5: she came around and she introduced herself, and she wanted

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Speaker 5: to make plans with us and the kids. And he

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Speaker 5: was not like that. He would, you know, say hello

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Speaker 5: if I saw him on the street, maybe kind of

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Speaker 5: like nod his head. He would smile. So he was

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Speaker 5: outwardly friendly. But in the I guess three years that

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Speaker 5: he lived next to us, I never actually had a

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Speaker 5: conversation with him, But with Mate it was very different.

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Speaker 5: I had many, many long conversations with her, took many

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Speaker 5: long walks, and I can't say the same for him.

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Speaker 2: Question, you spent time with May, and I know that

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Speaker 2: May lived in the home with her parents, ages seventy

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Speaker 2: two and sixty four.

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Speaker 1: What was she like?

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Speaker 5: I was just a very very sweet person, a very generous,

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Speaker 5: very sweet, very caring, would kind of get excited about

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Speaker 5: small things, kind of biting like a I guess, a

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Speaker 5: childlike way, which was very endearing. She loved to be

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Speaker 5: around people. She threw many parties. She was very dedicated,

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Speaker 5: dedicated to her three boys, and always threw them really

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Speaker 5: amazing birthday parties, really went all out. She you know,

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Speaker 5: threw parties for Chinese New Year, and she always loved

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Speaker 5: to make plans, make sure, you know, her boys have

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Speaker 5: a lot of things plan out, and also took them

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Speaker 5: to many extracurricular activities after school, from music to sport

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Speaker 5: to you know, advanced math and so on.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that is a mom that cares.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been there and I know the ages

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Speaker 2: of her children are three boys. You're constantly in the

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Speaker 2: road taking one to music, or this one to gymnastics,

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Speaker 2: or this one to soccer or whatever it is that

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Speaker 2: they latch onto that they like. What was her relationship

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Speaker 2: with Haskell?

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Speaker 5: For so, I will say that she never really discussed

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Speaker 5: a relationship with him with me, but just from observing them,

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Speaker 5: I would say that they weren't close. They didn't have

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Speaker 5: anywhere near a close, you know, a close relationship. It

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Speaker 5: would definitely not call it that. Never seen them be

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Speaker 5: affectionate with each other. They never went on date nights.

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Speaker 5: She never mentioned and them going on a date. I

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Speaker 5: never have been going out anywhere together. They didn't go

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Speaker 5: on vacations together. So she would go on vacation with

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Speaker 5: her children and her parents, and he typically went on

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Speaker 5: solo trips I think, typically to Japan. According to May,

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Speaker 5: some of them were work related for filming. They both,

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Speaker 5: for example, like to take walks in the neighborhood. I

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Speaker 5: never saw them take a walk together.

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Speaker 1: You know, That's that's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Ill And guys, you're hearing a friend and neighbor of

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Speaker 2: May and Sam Haskell the fourth Troy Slayton. I'm just

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Speaker 2: trying to imagine.

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Speaker 9: This, Nancy. That's something very important. I love take walks

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Speaker 9: with my spouse here in beautiful Los Angeles. But he

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Speaker 9: lived with his in laws too. And I'm not making

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Speaker 9: any kind of excuse, but people sometimes in that situation

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Speaker 9: feel trapped. They feel that there are no boundaries and

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00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 9: starting to think about what some of the defenses might

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Speaker 9: be psychologically for him, and they.

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Speaker 1: Live with his in laws. Are you kidding me?

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Speaker 2: I've got my ninety two year old mother with us, Okay,

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Speaker 2: and you know who's the very sweetest to her, My husband.

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Speaker 1: He feels trapped, he hasn't said, so.

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Speaker 9: That's nice, But a lot of people suffer tremendous psychological

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Speaker 9: stress from living with their in laws.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, I can't wait to see how that goes over.

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Speaker 2: Was that you l about to say something?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I was going to say that May's parents they

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Speaker 5: were I mean, of course, I don't know what went

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Speaker 5: on inside their home, but from what I could see,

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Speaker 5: they seem to be extremely helpful. Anytime I observed them

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Speaker 5: with the children, they always both of them were actively

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Speaker 5: you know, chasing up to them helping. Her mom cooked

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Speaker 5: a lot, I think, pretty much daily for them and

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Speaker 5: for the kids when May for birthday parties. It was

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Speaker 5: not that helped in any way. Was her parents, even

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Speaker 5: though they didn't speak English, they were constantly actively helping.

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Speaker 5: And you know, and her mom had suffered a stroke

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Speaker 5: prior to COVID and so she did use or she

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Speaker 5: does use a kid to walk. That didn't stop her

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Speaker 5: from being always on her feet and helping.

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Speaker 2: You know, just thinking about the dynamic you're telling us.

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Speaker 2: But I want to circle back very quickly to something

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Speaker 2: Alexis Terschak was reporting earlier.

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Speaker 1: I want to go.

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Speaker 2: Back to these day laborers.

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Speaker 1: They construction workers. Take us to hour Cut too from.

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Speaker 3: Dave Mac twenty five miles west of downtown Los Angeles,

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Speaker 3: in an area once owned by famed author Edgar Rice

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Speaker 3: Burrows and named for his famous character Tarzan. Tarzana is

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Speaker 3: in the San Fernando Valley and has become a popular

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Speaker 3: place for celebrities and those in the entertainment world to

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Speaker 3: call home. It's also where Sam Haskell paid a group

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Speaker 3: of day laborers five hundred dollars to haul away three

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Speaker 3: large trash bags that were in his garage. Speaking to

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Speaker 3: NBC for Los Angeles, the workers said Haskell told them

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Speaker 3: the bags were full of rocks, but the workers said

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Speaker 3: when they picked up the bags they felt like there

401
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Speaker 3: was meat inside. Realizing what they were carrying wasn't rocks,

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Speaker 3: the workers pulled over about a block from Haskell's house

403
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Speaker 3: to look inside the bag. Opening the bags, the men

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Speaker 3: knew they'd been.

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Speaker 1: Tricked and more listen.

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Speaker 3: The men described the bags to NBC four as soft

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Speaker 3: and soggy and each weighing about fifty pounds. A block

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Speaker 3: away from Haskell's house, the workers opened up the bags

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Speaker 3: and said they started seeing body parts, specifically a belly button.

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Speaker 3: The men said they felt bad they'd been tricked, so

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Speaker 3: they drove back to Haskell's house and left the bags

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Speaker 3: in the and gave Haskell as five hundred dollars back.

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Speaker 3: Haskell played it off, telling the workers what they actually

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Speaker 3: saw were Halloween props. Not believing Haskell, the men drove

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Speaker 3: immediately to the police.

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Speaker 2: Okay, alexais terreschat Crime online dot com investigative reporter joining

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Speaker 2: us from LA what.

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Speaker 6: So he hired it some men day laborer that you

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Speaker 6: go to maybe home depot or somewhere like that, and

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Speaker 6: you say, hey, guys, I've got some heavy things in

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Speaker 6: my house. These men are usually big, strong men, and

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Speaker 6: they have trucks they come to your house. So that's

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Speaker 6: what they did. They took the bags and he said, oh,

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Speaker 6: they're rocks. Well, rocks are really heavy and they don't move.

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Speaker 1: You can't squish them.

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Speaker 6: But these bags were heavy and squishy, and the guys

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Speaker 6: their description was it felt like meat. So they were,

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Speaker 6: you know, like a huge hunk of meat.

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Speaker 1: Squishy but still a little solid.

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Speaker 6: They looked in the bags, they saw what it was,

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Speaker 6: and what they specifically described was they saw a belly

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Speaker 6: button like the torso from you know, above your waist,

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Speaker 6: below your chest, you're below your necks.

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Speaker 5: And that was horrific.

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Speaker 6: So they took the bags back. The guy gave them

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00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 6: their money. They gave them money back, and then they

437
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Speaker 6: went to the police. They go to the first police

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Speaker 6: station they could find. The police said, well, that's not

439
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 6: actually our jurisdiction. One either to his other police station

440
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 6: or call nine to one.

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Speaker 1: One.

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Speaker 6: These guys come in with sure, it's a little bit

443
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 6: of a wild story, but you should investigate this. This

444
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 6: is really they're not telling you anything that is out

445
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 6: of the Norman Los Angeles.

446
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: Everything you're saying, I believe it's correct. But what's jumping

447
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: out at me is changing his story. First, the bag

448
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: is full of rocks. Yeah, Then he says, oh, those

449
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 2: are just Halloween props, even though it looks like human body.

450
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: Parts, that's so human body and yeah.

451
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 2: Then the next thing we know, a bag of human

452
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 2: body parts turns up in a dumpster. But let me

453
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: take it back. Joining me is a neighbor of May

454
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 2: and Sam Haskell. Fourth May, the mother of three little boys.

455
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,640
Speaker 1: By Haskell.

456
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: Well, question, what if anything did you hear the previous night?

457
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 5: So I was not home the previous night, but yes,

458
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 5: my daughter she actually texted it to us that night.

459
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 5: She heard what she thought was the youngest boy from

460
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 5: their house, or perhaps from the yard shout hello, hello, help,

461
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 5: and then she heard a car door slam and loud screeching.

462
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 5: I guess of the car drove off?

463
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, did you saw that down? And tell

464
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,120
Speaker 1: me one more time?

465
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 5: Okay, So my daughter texted us at around nine pm

466
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 5: on Tuesday, the night before the torso was found, that

467
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 5: she heard what she believed to be the high school's

468
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 5: youngest boy come in too basically maybe from the house

469
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 5: or from the yard, to call out hello, hello and

470
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 5: then help. And then she heard a car door slim

471
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 5: really hard and screeching sound allowed screeching, a drove off.

472
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: And joining me?

473
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: Now is doctor Trace sergeant Search Rescue, Recovery Expert, PhD

474
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: in psychology, I focused on victimology, star of a podcast,

475
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 2: The Seekers Quest, Doctor sergeant, thank you for being with us.

476
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 2: You look specifically at predatory behavior. What do you make

477
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: of someone that not only commits a murder but then

478
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 2: dismembers the body?

479
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 12: Well, Nancy, we look at several things, but I'd like

480
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 12: to go back to Sam Hassel's the fourth comments on

481
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 12: social media that in itself tells us a lot when

482
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 12: we're looking at it from a criminal profile perspective. Behavioral

483
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 12: analysis psychological analysis, and what is glaring to me is

484
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 12: that he perceives himself as the victim. And I would

485
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 12: not be surprised when this case and this story moves

486
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 12: forward that he presents himself as the victim and maybe

487
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 12: even go as far as blaming the circumstances that led

488
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 12: to the death of his wife and probably his in

489
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 12: laws that it was somehow their fault, not his fault.

490
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 12: He will not take accountability or responsibility for his action.

491
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that, doctor Bracato.

492
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 10: Well, I have a few things to say about this case,

493
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 10: and I think in some ways I'm sort of uniquely

494
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 10: suited to look at it because it touches on two

495
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 10: areas that have been major ones for me in my research.

496
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 10: First of all, dismemberment and mutilation need to be distinguished.

497
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 10: I worked with doctor and Burgess, doctor Victor Petrica, Michael Stone,

498
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 10: doctor Michael Stone, and we came up with definitions to

499
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 10: distinguish those offenses. It's important for people to understand the dismemberment,

500
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 10: according to our work, really means the destruction or removal

501
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 10: of a large part of the body the torso, the arms, hand, helvis,

502
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 10: legs or feet, and any destruction or elimination of a

503
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 10: smaller part thereof of any you know, it would be mutilation.

504
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 10: And the reason it's important is there are differences in

505
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 10: the psychology and motives of people according to which of

506
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 10: those things they're doing. What it sounds like here. We

507
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 10: don't know how how much butchery there was, but this

508
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 10: sounds like dismemberment offense. And with dismemberment, we found in

509
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 10: our research that the vast majority offenders are doing that

510
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 10: to get rid of body parts because of concern about capture.

511
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 10: The outside, you know, looking in makes it seem like

512
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 10: it's some kind of bizarre, psychotic, crazy thing to do,

513
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 10: but the reality is it's a pretty organized thing to

514
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 10: do that's done by a person that's trying to clean

515
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 10: up after they've eliminated people. Now, the other thing that

516
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 10: I can kind of put some in a unique position

517
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 10: here is I know that, you know, there's been a

518
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 10: charge that this man has killed not only this woman

519
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 10: but her parents, which would place him in the category

520
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 10: of mass murder. When I was at Columbia Medical Center,

521
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 10: I led the largest study ever done of mass murder.

522
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 10: And what I can tell you is is that in

523
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 10: order to know the motives of a person who commits

524
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 10: mass murder. We have to know what was used to kill.

525
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 10: If a gun is used, there's a very low likelihood

526
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 10: that the person was seriously disturbed or mentally ill. If

527
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 10: something else was used, like a knife, then we start

528
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 10: thinking that this was an individual who was unwell in

529
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 10: some way. The statistics, it becomes much more probable that

530
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 10: the person was disturbed.

531
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: If they use an Is that what you said?

532
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 10: Yes, the use of a knife would be more of

533
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 10: a giveaway that you're dealing with somebody that would be

534
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 10: authentically odd inter personally, a little more kind.

535
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: Of unwell, right, Are you saying insane? Not insane, just odd? Odd?

536
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 10: For example, the individual might be paranoid or a little

537
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 10: bit aggressive.

538
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: Are you talking about someone that kills and as members

539
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: with a knife.

540
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 10: Talking about someone who commits a mass murder using a knife.

541
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 1: Well, what doesn't it go without saying that they're odd?

542
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 6: Well odd?

543
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 10: And when I say odd, I don't mean odd because

544
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 10: you've committed murder or anything like that. I mean odd

545
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 10: that even at baseline, the person would say peculiar things

546
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 10: would be a little bit kind of odd to the

547
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 10: average individual, hot headed, a little paranoid, a little peculiar,

548
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 10: and that matches what we're hearing and that weird recording

549
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 10: from TikTok and some of these stories about the detachment

550
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 10: and the coldness between the members of the family. Now,

551
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 10: what's interesting about this is when we see these kinds

552
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 10: of cases where you know, there's been this explosive potential

553
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 10: killing of a family and then there's dismemberment, there's usually

554
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 10: one of two reasons it happens. One is elimination murder,

555
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 10: as I term it, which is where the idea is

556
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 10: to simply get rid of them because they are an

557
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 10: impediment to something like, for example, I want to have

558
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 10: a new romance or I am trying to get my

559
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 10: hands on some money. The other that you see is

560
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 10: some kind of domestic matter that causes an emotional disruption

561
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 10: and somebody in an absolute rage kills someone and then

562
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 10: has to kill everyone who has witnessed it in the family.

563
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 10: So that what I would suppose, if it turns out

564
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,719
Speaker 10: that this is indeed a mass murder followed by dismemberment,

565
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 10: was that there was some kind of hot headed, angry,

566
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 10: odd person who became enraged or had a motive to

567
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 10: get rid of these people did so and then attempted

568
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 10: in a clumsy, weird way to And the reason it's

569
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 10: so odd and the stories are ridiculous is often that

570
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 10: the person is odd and lacks that kind of interpersonal

571
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 10: empathy to kind of pick up that people would think

572
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 10: these stories were weird.

573
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: Let's go back to the Haskell's neighbor, Elle Benemy Elle question.

574
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 1: I know you spent a good bit of time with May.

575
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 2: Do you have any knowledge of Haskell having a fixation

576
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: for on martial arts and kept samurai swords and crossbows

577
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 2: in them?

578
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, so I did. I did notice that about him.

579
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 5: I know that she mentioned that he would direct or

580
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 5: produce martial arts related movies or videos, or that he

581
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 5: would go in martial arts troops to Japan, I believe,

582
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 5: and I don't know why I remember this, but I

583
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 5: seem to recall that he may have a black belt

584
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 5: or a couple of blood belts for martial arts, and

585
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 5: and then I did know about their having various weapons

586
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 5: in the house, such as the stores and samurai swords

587
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 5: I believe across bow firearms. So that that's definitely something

588
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 5: that stayed very top of mind for me as a

589
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 5: mom of four living next door.

590
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: Did her mays, children tell your children about all the

591
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 2: weapons to the point you did not want your children

592
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: alone at their home upstairs?

593
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 5: Yes, so they did mention that to my kids several

594
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 5: points about like let's say a samurai sword, or pointing

595
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: up to where supposedly a specific firearm was kept. So

596
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: that made me very nervous about their them going upstairs

597
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 5: to one of the bedrooms. I did, of course, I

598
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 5: trust me and I I did really like her three boys,

599
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 5: so I was happy for them to play with my kids.

600
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 5: I just didn't wonder to be any accident.

601
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Welcome back, guys.

602
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 2: We're talking about Sam Haskell, the fourth living in a

603
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: multi million dollar home out in La his wife working.

604
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: Like a dog to support him and their three children.

605
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 2: He didn't even have to take care of the children

606
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: because her parents moved in to take care of the

607
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 2: children so she could work.

608
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,399
Speaker 1: Now, in this last.

609
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,879
Speaker 2: Court appearance that happened in the last days, once again

610
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: he didn't have on a shirt. And the hearing before that,

611
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 2: in front of a different judge that was back in January,

612
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: he again appeared half naked. Is warn velcrow outfit to

613
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: his prison blues, Rolls kept flipping down, prompting his lawyer

614
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 2: to object to his client being photographed in court, saying

615
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: his bare chest was dehumanizing. I personally think he was

616
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: flexing his chest, but that's just me. In response to that,

617
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,680
Speaker 2: the judge presiding over the hearing order photographers to only

618
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: shoot Haskell from.

619
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: The neck up.

620
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: But at this last hearing the attorney did not object.

621
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: Why because Judge Lisa Lynch, the new judge, allowed no

622
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 2: photographs in court at all. Now, this day in court

623
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 2: was supposed to be the day set for a preliminary

624
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: hearing to be scheduled, where ELA's district attorney will present

625
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 2: evidence and testimony and Judge Lynch will rule whether the

626
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 2: case against Haskell.

627
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: Is strong enough for him to go to a jury trial.

628
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: It's very simple.

629
00:37:54,440 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: Preliminary hearings can be interchanged with grand jury indictments charging mechanism.

630
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: What's the hold up? I mean, look at the evidents

631
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 1: that we know about so far.

632
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: It now appears Haskell won't have a full preliminary hearing

633
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 2: for another ninety days, meaning in twenty twenty five, Haskell

634
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: could face the death penalty if he's convicted. May's friends

635
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,040
Speaker 2: have stated she wanted to divorce Haskell for at least

636
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: four years, but she was so afraid his powerful agent

637
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: father would convince courts to give him or their son,

638
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 2: Sam Haskell the fourth custody of her three sons, Samuel eleven,

639
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 2: James eight, and little William just six. Delay, delay, delay,

640
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: A defense attorney's best friend, we wait as justice unfolds

641
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 2: for May and her parents.

642
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,