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Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercam. I'm a mother of four,

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Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah hart Hunger.

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Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, practicing physician and blogger. On

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Speaker 1: the side, we are two working parents who love our

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Speaker 1: careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family,

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Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping

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Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds.

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Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode sixty eight. We'll be

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Speaker 1: talking with Emily Garnett this week about parenting while dealing

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Speaker 1: with a serious illness as well. It is Thanksgiving week

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Speaker 1: for our American listeners, those of you and the rest

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Speaker 1: of the world. Hopefully you're also having a great week

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Speaker 1: that you're grateful for things as well, although it may

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Speaker 1: not be an official holiday to celebrate for it. Sarah,

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Speaker 1: what are you grateful for as we're recording this? Yeah, today,

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Speaker 1: I am grateful that after she ate Jenevie went back

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Speaker 1: to sleep after eating at four thirty am. It's little things, yes,

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Speaker 1: because that was key podcast prep time. For me, and

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Speaker 1: if she had not gone back to sleep, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would have been a little bit of trouble, so that

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Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, actually I would have I may have

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Speaker 1: put Josh in charge. That would have been your other plan. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's true. You could probably deal with that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I've been I mean, especially this this upcoming

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Speaker 1: episode is really focusing our minds on what we're grateful for.

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Speaker 1: So much in life works works very well, and I

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Speaker 1: know that both you and I and we have our

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Speaker 1: bumps in the road, but we're you know, happy to

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Speaker 1: have pretty good life. I've been thinking of this in

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Speaker 1: the past few weeks have been hit with a number

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Speaker 1: of them sort of expensive misfortunes, is how I would

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Speaker 1: would put it, starting with my broken tooth a few

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Speaker 1: weeks ago, and then extending from there into you know,

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Speaker 1: like our three year old's series of er visits for

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Speaker 1: the whole you know bat encounter. Oh yes, I had rabies,

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Speaker 1: rabies vaccines system. You know, my blog readers or heard

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Speaker 1: that whole saga. I don't need to bore anyone with it,

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Speaker 1: but to suffice to say it was, you know, not

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Speaker 1: just going to the r once, but then you know,

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Speaker 1: the doctor on duty thought we didn't need to do anything.

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Speaker 1: Other people disagreed, and so then there was going back

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Speaker 1: with the whole you know saga with that. The other day,

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Speaker 1: I also managed to rip the front fender off my

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Speaker 1: car while backing out of the driveway. It's just, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's comical in retrospect, but not so much at the time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, all of those scenarios, I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's a gratitude angle, like we're grateful that your son

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Speaker 1: didn't actually end up having rabies, and we're grateful that

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Speaker 1: you didn't get in an actual like real So it's true,

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Speaker 1: even the bad things, you can kind of think about

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Speaker 1: how much or we're recording this, like while I'm sort

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Speaker 1: of waiting to see when the plumbers will show up,

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Speaker 1: hopefully after we've been recording, because I don't want to

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Speaker 1: deal with them while we're recording it. I spent yesterday

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Speaker 1: waiting for Blum today because like, our house is below

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Speaker 1: the sewer line, you know, So Pennsylvania is really hilly,

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Speaker 1: and so depending on where you are on the hill,

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Speaker 1: you might be below your sewage line, right, and so

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Speaker 1: if that is the case, like it doesn't naturally flow

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Speaker 1: up hill say, you have to have a pump system

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Speaker 1: to get it into the sewage system. And those pumps

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Speaker 1: we got new ones installed in early twenty seventeen and

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Speaker 1: they both broke. I don't know why, but it was

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Speaker 1: this horrible, huge mess, like not mess, but like loud

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Speaker 1: noise alarms. Have plumber's coming out for emergency dealing with that.

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Speaker 1: They both need to be reinstalled. Like the warranty will

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Speaker 1: cover the pumps, but it won't cover the labor. Like

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Speaker 1: it's just all this stuff. I mean, I would say

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Speaker 1: all this crap literally then then, and that all really

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Speaker 1: does suck. But it's like, wow, thank God for the

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Speaker 1: Suis sewage system. I know, like that it's not like

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Speaker 1: pile up here because we're south on the hill from

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Speaker 1: the sewer line. You know. Yeah, the little things right,

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Speaker 1: talk about you that in general, when our toilet's flush,

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Speaker 1: it goes somewhere, not here, and when our lives are going, right,

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Speaker 1: we don't always think about this. We don't always think

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Speaker 1: about that. Yeah, so you guys for Thanksgiving, you tend

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Speaker 1: to stay in Miami, right, Yes, it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: cozy tradition not to travel anywhere. And although I'll say

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Speaker 1: even when we didn't live here, we used to fly

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Speaker 1: down because it's it's a bigger holiday, I guess from

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Speaker 1: my husband's side than it is for my side. So

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Speaker 1: sometimes my parents used to come with me to Miami,

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Speaker 1: but we almost always came, and then since moving here,

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Speaker 1: we have not left the area during that time ever,

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Speaker 1: So either one of us have been working or we're off,

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Speaker 1: and this year we're actually both off, which is really nice.

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Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to it. Are you guys traveling

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Speaker 1: only locally? So we generally, for most of the past

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Speaker 1: few years have either gone had it at our house,

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Speaker 1: which I don't mind it all. I don't find it

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Speaker 1: that big a deal to cook Thanksgiving dinner. It's actually

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, other people contribute dishes and so

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Speaker 1: all I really have to deal is with the main ones,

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Speaker 1: and you can buy things like pies, so you know,

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Speaker 1: it's not that big a deal. Or we go to

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Speaker 1: my brother's house, who lives in New Jersey, and that's

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Speaker 1: only an hour away, so you know, it's not a

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Speaker 1: huge deal. Like, you know, we're not having to travel

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Speaker 1: overnight generally, so we're going to his house this year,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not even on Turkey duty. I think I'll

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Speaker 1: make make my coni. Well, hopefully some listeners will get

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Speaker 1: to enjoy this, you know, while traveling or while doing

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Speaker 1: that pre Thanksgiving workout that is so common to get

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Speaker 1: back to get all ready for that meal. So yeah, yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: we're happy to bring you our interview in this upcoming

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Speaker 1: segment and so looking forward to that. Well, Sarah and

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Speaker 1: I are very happy that Emily Garnett agreed to come

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Speaker 1: on the podcast this week. We were so grateful to

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Speaker 1: learn that Emily is a long time listener of Best

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Speaker 1: of Both Worlds podcasts, so that is very exciting. She

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Speaker 1: also just started podcast herself, but she's going to tell

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Speaker 1: us about that. So Emily, introduce yourself to our listeners. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much, Laura, and thank you Sarah. I'm

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Speaker 1: so honored to be here. This is super exciting for me.

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Speaker 1: My name is Emily Garnett and I am. In a

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Speaker 1: previous life, I was an elder law attorney in New

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Speaker 1: York City, so I did a lot of wills, trusts, estates,

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Speaker 1: adult guardianships, and public benefits, so medicaid planning and medicaid applications.

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Speaker 1: And I left my law practice when I was thirty

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Speaker 1: after a few years. My background is also in nonprofit

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Speaker 1: work and care management and case management for different sorts

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Speaker 1: of marginalized populations, and so I left that sector when

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Speaker 1: my son was born in twenty fifteen to stay home

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Speaker 1: with him and was doing a little bit of work

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Speaker 1: from home here and there. And then last fall, last November,

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Speaker 1: I was diagnosed with metastatic breast cancer twist and you know, right,

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Speaker 1: it's like and what a twist. And we had just

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Speaker 1: moved out of the city into a suburb about forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes north, and I had been having some really

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Speaker 1: really awful postpartum pain issues that we couldn't put our

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Speaker 1: finger on, and so I kept going to these two

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Speaker 1: different doctors and they couldn't really it was like no

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Speaker 1: one could figure it out. And my primary care doctor

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Speaker 1: finally found a lump in my breast last September and said, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, go get this checked out. I went

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Speaker 1: for the ultrasound and the ultrasound tech immediately flagged it

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Speaker 1: as looking abnormal, pulled in the radiologist who did a

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Speaker 1: mammogram and then a biopsy, like immediately like it wasn't

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Speaker 1: like come back next week, it was clear. Your schedule

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Speaker 1: for the day and I was diagnosed with breast cancer

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Speaker 1: and they originally thought it was earlier stage and we're

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Speaker 1: going to do surgery and chemo. And then I went

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Speaker 1: for a second opinion and they were they kind of

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Speaker 1: connected the dots between my I'd been having really bad

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Speaker 1: back pain and hip pain and mobility issues, and they

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Speaker 1: connected the dots between those issues and the breast cancer

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Speaker 1: and said, you know what this is. This is likely

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Speaker 1: metastatic because those are symptoms of bone metastases. And so

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Speaker 1: they sent me for a scan and I the scan.

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Speaker 1: You know, I like to be a little bit glib

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Speaker 1: about it because it's kind of a coping mechanism, but

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Speaker 1: it was right after Thanksgiving last year, and my husband

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Speaker 1: and I say, the scan lit up like a Christmas tree,

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Speaker 1: like it was not. It was very clearly metastatic. And

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Speaker 1: so so I started treatment right before Christmas, and I

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Speaker 1: went into chemical menopause, which I'm very much like an

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Speaker 1: open book and I'm happy to talk about all of

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Speaker 1: these issues because if we're not talking about it, we

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Speaker 1: don't realize how much, you know, discomfort we have around

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Speaker 1: them and how difficult it can be to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm very much I very much tried to be

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Speaker 1: as open as possible about talking about all of the

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Speaker 1: different facets of my illness and our family challenges and

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Speaker 1: what this means to have metastatic breast cancer in your

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Speaker 1: early thirties. And so I've been on treatment now for

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Speaker 1: almost a year and my last scan was very stable.

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Speaker 1: It was a little bit better than stable, so things

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Speaker 1: are going well. But yeah, so that's the that's the TLDR. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what were your first thoughts when you you

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Speaker 1: got that diagnosis. I mean, you know, first you're you

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Speaker 1: just have the breast cancer diagnosed. You're like, well, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's bad. And then and then you get the scan

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Speaker 1: and you're like, well that's that's worse. It's really good,

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Speaker 1: that's really bad bad. Because I mean, of our listeners,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what our listeners know about this,

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Speaker 1: but obviously the prognosis for people with metastatic cancer is

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Speaker 1: is not how did they? And I'm curious and from

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Speaker 1: a well we don't have we probably do have actually

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Speaker 1: a number of physician listeners, So tell us what you know.

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Speaker 1: How were you given these kinds of diagnoses, what were

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Speaker 1: you told about prognosis and what was helpful from your

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Speaker 1: from your doctors, and what wasn't well, So I I

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Speaker 1: currently I went for a second opinion at one of

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Speaker 1: the major cancer centers in New York City. I was

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Speaker 1: at a smaller regional facility where I first got my

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Speaker 1: diagnosis and wasn't really comfortable with the standard of care there.

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Speaker 1: I didn't feel like they were. They were more upset

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Speaker 1: about everything than I was in a lot of ways

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Speaker 1: because I was so young, and they didn't seem to

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Speaker 1: see a lot of young people with with breast cancer,

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Speaker 1: and I don't. I'm sure it didn't help that I

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Speaker 1: had my son with me at the appointment and he's

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Speaker 1: you know too, and bouncing off the walls, and you know,

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Speaker 1: so they were. I wanted to go somewhere where I

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Speaker 1: was not the most upsetting case, and I found a outliar.

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Speaker 1: You didn't want to be the out I didn't want

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Speaker 1: it to be another You wanted them to feed. You

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Speaker 1: wanted it to feel like there was confidence on their

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Speaker 1: end because they had seen a million like you, Right.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be the boring case. And so when

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Speaker 1: I went for my second opinion at the cancer center

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Speaker 1: in the city I was. I found that that team

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Speaker 1: where they were very much just like they are that

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Speaker 1: like wonderful mix of optimism and realism, Like they're not

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Speaker 1: going to eat around the bush and are very straightforward,

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Speaker 1: but they also are not going to I don't know

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Speaker 1: if they keep a good poker face or if they're

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Speaker 1: just really really spectacular doctors. I tend to think it's

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Speaker 1: the latter, But they really have been, you know, they've

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Speaker 1: my life hasn't been in their hands for the last year,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I trust them so implicitly. So

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Speaker 1: they basically told me based on my hormone receptor status

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Speaker 1: and where my metastases were located. So breast cancer is

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Speaker 1: broken down into different categories based on hormone receptors, so

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Speaker 1: estrogen positive, progesterone positive, both estrogen and progesterone positive, herto

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Speaker 1: positive or triple negative, which means you don't have any

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Speaker 1: hormone receptors. And I'm estrogen positive, which is the most

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Speaker 1: common and there's the most treatment types available. And my

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Speaker 1: metastases are only in my bones, so there are no

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Speaker 1: major organs affected. And I have a lot of metastases,

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Speaker 1: but they're not big. They're like like little Dalmatian spots,

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Speaker 1: so they're not there. They were painful, but they weren't

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Speaker 1: like interfering with like the bone structure and stability. So

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Speaker 1: my my oncologist said, look, this is you know, she

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Speaker 1: was very matter of fact, She's like, this is stage four.

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Speaker 1: We're not going to give you a life expectancy. We're

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Speaker 1: not going to give you a prognosis because at the

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Speaker 1: beginning they're like, we just don't know. We're not going

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Speaker 1: to tell you information that we that we are, you know,

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Speaker 1: only going off statistics and breast cancer is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a learning, it's a progressive learning. Well because

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Speaker 1: I guess there's so many variable so many variables, and

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Speaker 1: so she said, with this, with this makeup, we like

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Speaker 1: to think that they that you'll have many, many years

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Speaker 1: unless we start to think otherwise. And obviously the median

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Speaker 1: life expectancy for metastatic breast cancer is about three ish years.

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Speaker 1: But that's the median, so that's you know, statistically, there

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Speaker 1: is going to be a lot of people on either

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Speaker 1: side of the curve. Like I know people who have

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Speaker 1: lived for twenty years with metastatic disease, but I also

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Speaker 1: met people very early on that are no longer with

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Speaker 1: us that passed away very quickly from their diagnosis, so

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Speaker 1: you you can't predict it's they're working on predictive models,

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Speaker 1: but it's in the early stages of research. How do

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Speaker 1: you how do you handle the uncertainty and or is

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Speaker 1: it in some ways is the uncertainty sort of positive

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Speaker 1: because with that comes, you know, the possibility for more hope. Well,

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Speaker 1: I so my husband jokes about this a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and we we try to have as much of a

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Speaker 1: sense of humor about it as possible because it's it.

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Speaker 1: It helps us cope, and it helps us realize that

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Speaker 1: it's we don't have to be morose all the time.

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Speaker 1: We're not walking around like zombies. So he jokes that

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Speaker 1: this setup was the most ideal setup for me if

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get a terminal illness, having one where

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Speaker 1: I have you know, I'm not going to go downhill

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Speaker 1: really quickly, but it's you know, I have I have

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Speaker 1: time to plan, and I'm I'm a planner by nature.

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Speaker 1: I'm an obsessive list maker, and so now I have

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Speaker 1: this kick in the pants to say, Okay, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: going to plan out the next five years of my life.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to sit down and say, what does my

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Speaker 1: family need? What can I organize for my family? What

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Speaker 1: can I organize for myself? What are the things that

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Speaker 1: I want to accomplish in my life? And can I

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Speaker 1: how many of those can I do? And so I've

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Speaker 1: just I have been in super planning mode of like

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Speaker 1: I don't necessarily have you know, forty or fifty years.

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Speaker 1: I think of myself as like, Okay, I have five years.

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Speaker 1: What can I do in those five years? And that's

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Speaker 1: a really reasonable chunk of time to address. So I've

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Speaker 1: I've taken that as in some ways, you know, a

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Speaker 1: positive in disguise because I can you know, I can

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Speaker 1: really start to get down to business. Wow, Like if

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Speaker 1: you've thought about you know, these are the five years,

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Speaker 1: what are you right? Well? And it's in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways five years is a lot less daunting to

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Speaker 1: think about five years or one year or two years

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Speaker 1: than like fifteen years or twenty years. Like I had

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Speaker 1: always wanted to start a nonprofit, had always been kind

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Speaker 1: of my ultimate career trajectory, was like that was my

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Speaker 1: hope that I would do that, And I realized, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not guaranteed to have a twenty or thirty year

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Speaker 1: career arc and I had started putting into place the

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Speaker 1: foundation for starting a business right before my diagnosis, like

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Speaker 1: a consulting business for elder care, special needs issues and

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Speaker 1: both legal and care management issues. And as soon as

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Speaker 1: I got diagnosed with breast cancer, I realized a lot

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Speaker 1: of those issues translate really well into the needs of

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Speaker 1: the breast cancer community, and so I was able to

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Speaker 1: kind of pivot and am now actually later today, I'm

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Speaker 1: filing the paperwork to start a nonprofit to start addressing

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Speaker 1: some of those needs of the young metastatic community with

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Speaker 1: you know, with small children, the legal needs, the case

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Speaker 1: management needs, kind of helping triage all of the issues

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Speaker 1: that I just went through and was cobbling together all

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Speaker 1: the resources for myself. So now you're the most qualified

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Speaker 1: person ever to be able to do that. Go ahead.

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Speaker 1: What were you going to say, Yeah, Well, of course

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Speaker 1: you're doing all that while also managing a pretty complex

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Speaker 1: treatment plan, right, And I wonder you could share a

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Speaker 1: little bit about that with our our listeners. Because my

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Speaker 1: hormone based mostly right hormone based, right, so my my

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Speaker 1: treatment plan is actually my my oncologist always says, it

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Speaker 1: sounds so much easier than you think it would be

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Speaker 1: because I take two pills a day and then I

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Speaker 1: go and those pills are One of them is an

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Speaker 1: aromatase inhibitor, which is and Sarah, I'm probably mashing up

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Speaker 1: all of these. Oh, I can help you with that.

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Speaker 1: So in aroma case inhibitor blacks is that in my

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Speaker 1: practice for different reasons. But it can blocks the conversion

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Speaker 1: of testosterone to estrogen, blocking the rumatase enzymes. So it's

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Speaker 1: gonna greatly lower your estrogen levels and increase your testosterone

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Speaker 1: levels a little bit. Yes, yes, so it I'm on

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Speaker 1: an aromatase inhibitor to decrease the estrogen. I'm on a

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Speaker 1: CDK inhibitor, the CDK four six inhibitor, which is a

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Speaker 1: brand new drug and has been really changing the face

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Speaker 1: of metastatic hormone based breast cancer treatment because it's been

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Speaker 1: so people have been so responsive to it and that's great. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so that between those two, I take those pills

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Speaker 1: every day. I'm not doing chemo, I'm not doing radiation.

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Speaker 1: I didn't have breast surgery because for metastatic disease that

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Speaker 1: was not the most recommended course of treatment. It was

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Speaker 1: now having these more specifically targeted therapies. I'm able to

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Speaker 1: go to the doctor once a month for follow up,

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Speaker 1: and I get a couple of injections to strengthen my

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Speaker 1: bones as well as was put into chemical menopause, and

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Speaker 1: then I get pet scans every ninety days to check

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Speaker 1: on the you know, stability of my disease. I also

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Speaker 1: had a hysterectomy at the end of the summer, and

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Speaker 1: so I could go off of a couple of the

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Speaker 1: the lupron, which is the chemical menopause medication. So I

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Speaker 1: had a full hysterectomy upherectomy, which is ovaries, and I

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Speaker 1: had my ovaries, tubes, and uterus completely removed, so that

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Speaker 1: that would shut down all almost all the estrogen production

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Speaker 1: in my body from chemical menopause to surgical menopause right right,

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Speaker 1: Which was I mean, honestly, that's been the hardest part

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Speaker 1: is the grappling with the menopause symptom and the kind

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Speaker 1: of fertility, the fertility issues, the fertility, the fact that

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Speaker 1: we are never going to have another baby. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we had been trying to get pregnant when with a

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Speaker 1: second baby when I was diagnosed, so that was really challenging.

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Speaker 1: That was that that has been I think for me

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Speaker 1: the hardest part. Wow, are you considering any other means

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Speaker 1: of expanding your family or is that we kind of

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Speaker 1: on the table for now. We we shelved it pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: We shelved it because we didn't have time or the

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Speaker 1: financial resources to do the appropriate fertility preservation. And then

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Speaker 1: when we realized I was metastatic, we thought it seems

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Speaker 1: like too much to take on to kind of have

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Speaker 1: the possibility of another baby kind of sitting out there

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Speaker 1: in the ether. We have one son who just turned

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Speaker 1: three yesterday, So happy birthday, Felix, Happy birthday. And he

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Speaker 1: is awesome, and and kids are a lot, I mean,

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Speaker 1: one kid for me has been a lot, Like I've yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I just I was like, you know what, we're

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Speaker 1: We're good. We have one baby that may not be

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Speaker 1: how we envisioned it, and it's hard to think that

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Speaker 1: we're never going to have another one, especially being in

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Speaker 1: that kind of like early mid thirties time of life

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Speaker 1: where everyone else is having more children and knowing that

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Speaker 1: we're not, you know, ever going to get to do that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the fact that we did get to

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Speaker 1: have one baby before before my diagnosis was wonderful, and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to take that for granted. And I'd

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Speaker 1: rather spend as much energy on him rather than, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do we have another baby

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Speaker 1: while I'm sick and can't do you know, nearly as

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Speaker 1: much as I could when Felix was a newborn. So

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Speaker 1: what does Felix know about the situation? I mean, what

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Speaker 1: have you and your husband discussed with him about it?

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Speaker 1: So we are pretty open with him, I in whatever

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Speaker 1: age appropriate ways possible. I try to make it a

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Speaker 1: point not to I try to be pretty matter of

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Speaker 1: fact with him because I don't want him to ever

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Speaker 1: have that moment of like, this isn't something I can

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Speaker 1: talk about, or this is something that my family is

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Speaker 1: afraid of. I think that it's going to be such

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Speaker 1: a huge part of his narrative as a person that

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Speaker 1: his mom had breast cancer that he needs to be

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Speaker 1: able to grow with that and process it in whatever

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Speaker 1: way is is, you know, whatever way he needs to. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean we're not sitting down and being like, well,

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Speaker 1: mommy has X, Y and Z, but we include him

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Speaker 1: in conversations Like when I had my hysterectomy, we talked

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Speaker 1: to him about well, mommy had an operation and mommy

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Speaker 1: has scars, and he said, can I see them? And

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Speaker 1: I said sure and so and I said that means

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Speaker 1: you can't jump on mommy's stomach and he goes, okay, Mommy,

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Speaker 1: can I kiss your booboos? And it's like sure, I know.

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Speaker 1: And he is so empathetic and sweet, and he's got

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Speaker 1: a very nurturing side to him, and he feels he

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Speaker 1: feels much better when he's included in whatever the family

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Speaker 1: is going through. So I also think it's important to

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Speaker 1: give him the opportunity to see, you know, instead of

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Speaker 1: just saying, well, mommy's at the doctors a lot. Because

400
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Speaker 1: the first six months were so many doctor's appointments because

401
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: it was you know, scanned and my oncology appointments, but

402
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: then also genetics and I can't even remember. I felt

403
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Speaker 1: like I was just and like integrative medicine and support groups,

404
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: and I felt like I was constantly at appointments, And

405
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Speaker 1: so I tried to take him with me whenever it

406
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Speaker 1: was appropriate and let him kind of see a little

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Speaker 1: bit of what mommy was doing so that he could say, see, Okay,

408
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,480
Speaker 1: you know, mommy's at the doctor. That's not a scary thing.

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00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:48,199
Speaker 1: That's just part of part of life. Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: you know, kids what every experience is different, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of kids can be very matter of fact about

412
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Speaker 1: those things. They can actually understand a lot. Yeah, wells

413
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Speaker 1: he said anything that like indicates that he understands it.

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Speaker 1: Or he's only three, so maybe maybe it's just it's

415
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: like how it is for him. It's just how it

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00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: is for him. He he he's very he is very

417
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: matter of fact about a lot of it. When I

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00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 1: don't feel good, I tell him, and then I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm by doing that I can create an example

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Speaker 1: for him if he doesn't feel good, he can you know,

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Speaker 1: he can have the tools to communicate that. Like it

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Speaker 1: it's I try to think of it in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways of like how can I model behavior that

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Speaker 1: I want him to pick up on as much as

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Speaker 1: it is what am I talking about? Like, I've definitely

426
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Speaker 1: noticed that he is picking up on a lot of

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00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: the words that you know, if my husband and I

428
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: are having a conversation, he's picking up on the words

429
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: that we're using and he's starts to try to understand them,

430
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,959
Speaker 1: and so he'll ask he goes mommy, what's cancer? And

431
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: I'll say, cancer is a disease. Cancer is a sickness

432
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 1: that mommy has, and there are a lot of different

433
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: types of it, and mommy has one type and that's

434
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: why she goes to the doctor a lot. And he's like, oh, okay,

435
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,680
Speaker 1: and and he was like, do you need a band

436
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: aid for it? Like, oh, I sometimes sometimes, you know,

437
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: do you have a band aid anything? Yeah? And like,

438
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 1: what advice do you have for other parents who are

439
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: trying to help children through a challenging medical situation in

440
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: the family, or advice for other parents who receive such

441
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: a such a difficult diagnosis. Circle your wagons in such

442
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 1: a big way, find the people who are going to

443
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: support you, and be really clear about what support that

444
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: you need. I it was really really hard for me

445
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,879
Speaker 1: the first probably two months to just function. I stayed

446
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: in bed and cried for a good chunk of the

447
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: day because I was just processing everything. And once I

448
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: kind of started coming out of that, I was like, Okay,

449
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: what support groups are available to me? And I found some.

450
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: I went to a few different ones and I found

451
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: some really great support groups. What's available for my husband

452
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: and found some different support networks for him? And I

453
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: talked to him. I was like, you need to have

454
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: a support group that you can talk to, or a

455
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,719
Speaker 1: group of friends, or something that you do on a

456
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: regular basis that gets you, that reboots you, because I

457
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: can't necessarily be that for you in this respect and

458
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: you need it. So, you know, finding him his regular

459
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: support network, and then starting to find the resources available

460
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: for Felix for our family, And that's where I started thinking, like,

461
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: there are not that many really specific resources available and

462
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: maybe I just haven't found them. But like I went

463
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: to a cancer organization that has really fantastic child life

464
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: specialists and they have groups, but they're for five to

465
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: twelve year olds, and I'm like, I think that we're

466
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: missing the boat with what you know, young kids need.

467
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: Like we found a great preschool that we started sending

468
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: my son to, and we went on sitter City. We

469
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 1: got a thirty day free coupon and found some really

470
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: good babysitters so that we would have childcare in place

471
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: in a few different ways when I was not well

472
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: in the mornings. And then you know, started looking at

473
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: what sorts of resources and supports we can build. But

474
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,480
Speaker 1: but that's really hard. It's it's and it's very time

475
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: consuming and very complex, and that brought me to the

476
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: idea of, like, this needs to be something where it

477
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: can be a hub of resources instead of everyone having

478
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: to fend for themselves, which that's what you're going to be.

479
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: That's working forwards with your exactly great segue to your

480
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: blog and your podcast. Yeah tell us, I mean because

481
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: you're you were becoming that resource that that wasn't there

482
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: for you, So so talk about what you're trying to do. Yeah,

483
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: that has That has been my whole goal is to

484
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 1: create the resources that I felt like I wanted. So

485
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: I started blogging about my diagnosis and my treatment and

486
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: how I feel about it and the whole process in

487
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: kind of the I think about it, like, Okay, if

488
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: I'm dratting a legal document, how would I spell all

489
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,720
Speaker 1: of this out? And so I tried to use that

490
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: structure in a lot of my less emotional blog posts

491
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: and my more informative blog posts. But I started blogging

492
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: about everything that I went through from you know, the

493
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: biopsies and the diagnosis, the genetic testing, the fertility questions

494
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: and the hysterectomy. All of those pieces I tried to

495
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: amass in one place and I hope that someday Felix

496
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: is going to be able to read those and you know,

497
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: recognize what his family, you know, what was happening in

498
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: his family because of those because of those those essays,

499
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: those narratives. But it also has become a resource for

500
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: and like a safe haven for a lot of other

501
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: people who are going through similar things. Who absolutely, I mean,

502
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: I can imagine if this did happen to me, that's

503
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: exactly what I'd want to read somebody else's yeah, thoughts

504
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: and experiences and that I'm not alone in this, and that,

505
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: I mean, that's incredibly valuable what you're doing. Thank you.

506
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 1: It's I mean, it's it's kind of selfish too, because

507
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: I really enjoy doing it, and I I appreciate you know,

508
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: in the same way that when you have a small kid,

509
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: you want to keep track of what happened at different

510
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: points of their lives. This is like my cancer kid,

511
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: Like I want to keep track of the things that

512
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: happened at the different points of my diagnosis and treatment

513
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: because I'm not going to think about it in the

514
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: same way now as I did in real time, and

515
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: so I try to keep my blog as real time

516
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: as possible. So if I'm you know, I started blogging.

517
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: I was diagnosed November ninth of twenty seventeen, and I

518
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: think I started the blog November tenth or eleventh, So

519
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: it was very very much real time. And so our

520
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: listeners said, that's beyond the pink ribbon, right, which is yeah,

521
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: well in the show, yeah, and then the podcast is

522
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: recently launched too, that you're you're talking about the intersection

523
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,479
Speaker 1: of cancer and life. Yeah, so so tell them that's so.

524
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: The podcast grew out of the conversations that I was

525
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: having with people who were reaching out to me because

526
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 1: of the blog that we're saying this is, this is

527
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: a really valuable resource. I disagree with you on things.

528
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I my experience has been different,

529
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: and I realized that there are not enough conversations about

530
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 1: life with cancer that are taking place in a way

531
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: that is going past the kind of you know, general

532
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: understanding of life with cancer. It's hard, you often have chemo.

533
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: You know, you're tired, like it's there are a lot

534
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: of tropes there that we're not digging deeper. And I

535
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: also noticed that there are a lot of aspects of

536
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 1: life with cancer that translate into challenges and struggles and

537
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: pieces of the human condition that are relatable on a

538
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: very very broad spectrum, and so I wanted to create

539
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 1: a platform to have those conversations and to put those

540
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: conversations out there, both for people who were dealing with

541
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: cancer to have basically have a relatable conversational space to

542
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: listen in on and say, yeah, that gets me, but

543
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: also for people who are not going through cancer, going

544
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: through cancer treatment or life with cancer that could learn

545
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: something from that and say, you know what, that's still

546
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 1: applicable to my life. And if one in three people

547
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,319
Speaker 1: in our lifetime is going to get a cancer diagnosis,

548
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 1: we're not talking about a small section of people who

549
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: are going to be affected by aspects of life with cancer.

550
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: We're talking about everyone. So it seems like yeah, in

551
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: some way, right, and even if it's not yourself, it's

552
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: your child or your parent or your friend or your relative,

553
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: and right, yeah, it's you know, and having that having

554
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 1: that space to unpack a lot of the harder topics

555
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: about living with cancer, about fertility, about death and dying,

556
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: about having small children and potentially leaving them before you

557
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: wanted to, and you know, not being able to be

558
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: alive for parts of their childhood or adulthood. Those are

559
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:56,760
Speaker 1: really tough conversations, but they're really important conversations because they're

560
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 1: conversations that a lot of people think about and don't

561
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: really know how to approach. Well, that sounds like I felt,

562
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: there are lessons from those. Yeah, they would apply to

563
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: a lot of realms. Oh my gosh, Emily, well, thank

564
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: you so much. We're so key that you're putting all

565
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: of that out there and that you've come on our podcast.

566
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: I think I was just going to say, why don't

567
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: you just real quick talk us through a day in

568
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: your life now, because I mean, it's it's it's fascinating.

569
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 1: There is this strange juxtaposition of like, you know, you

570
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: think about these you know, deep things, you're also just

571
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 1: taking two pills a day, as she said, So it's

572
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,919
Speaker 1: very strange. It's You're exactly right, Laura, it's a very

573
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: strange juxtaposition. And there are kind of two different types

574
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: of days in my life. There's like appointment days, which

575
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: are very long and intense and exhausting, and then there

576
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: are days like today where I wake up with Felix.

577
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: You know, Felix wakes us up around seven. He you know,

578
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: and he comes in and he usually kind of shoves

579
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: my glasses on my face and he's like, Mama, get up,

580
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: and so we get up, and we go downstairs and

581
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: have breakfast. And he goes to preschool three days a week.

582
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: So I drop him off at preschool. I come home

583
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: and put on some coffee, and I have a little office.

584
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: I call it my cancer cave. It was supposed to be,

585
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,360
Speaker 1: you know, a second kid bedroom, but when that was

586
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: off the table, I staked my claim in it, and

587
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 1: I was like, well, if we're not going to have

588
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: a kid in it, I'm going to use it as

589
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: an office. And this is going to be my space.

590
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: So nobody touch it. So I sit down and I

591
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: go through our family paperwork, so medical bills, explanation of benefits.

592
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: I kind of sort through all of the financial and

593
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: logistical stuff. If I need to follow up on prescriptions

594
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: or appointments, I sit down and you know, make those

595
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 1: phone calls or send those emails. And usually, you know,

596
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: we'll draft a blog post or work on some podcasts. Scheduling.

597
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: Sometimes I just call my mom and then I pick

598
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,239
Speaker 1: feel except from school. We have lunch together. He goes

599
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,920
Speaker 1: down for a nap. Fifty percent of the time, I

600
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: go down for a nap with him, and then you know,

601
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll go, uh, you know, we'll go I have

602
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: a really fantastic gym with Jim Childcare, and so we'll

603
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 1: go over there and go for a little bit, and

604
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: then in the evenings we take a walk around the neighborhood,

605
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: fix dinner, do bedtime. And it's it's so like heartbreakingly

606
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: normal in a lot of ways, because it's just it

607
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 1: feels normal and yet not at the same time, it's

608
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: normal and it's special. It's to see the specialness of it.

609
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: It is well and thank you so much for doing this.

610
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,840
Speaker 1: As you know, as a Best of Both Worlds listener,

611
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: we always like to end our segments with our love

612
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: of the week, and it doesn't have to be cancer related.

613
00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 1: It can be whatever. You know, it's definitely not definitely

614
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: no cancer related. You know, there's something that we're enjoying

615
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: this week and we can go first because that sometimes helps. So, so, Sarah,

616
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: why don't you why don't you talk about yours real quick? Yeah, So,

617
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: as you all know, I started a parenting book club

618
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: earlier this year which is going strong. I think we're

619
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 1: at our fourth or fifth meeting, and this this meeting,

620
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: the book was Small Animals by Kim Brooks and Man,

621
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: some parents of books have been more dry, not as

622
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 1: enjoyable to read. Maybe torture is to read. I'm not

623
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: going to say which one this one is not. This

624
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: one is fascinating. It reads like a memoir. It is

625
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: so thought provoking. The premise is it's about this woman

626
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 1: who was pursued by the criminal justice system for leaving

627
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: her four year old unattended in the car for five minutes.

628
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: I heard about that. It's so terrifying fascinating. Yes, it is.

629
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: And the actual book is well written. It's not terribly long.

630
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: It's like it's got a real voice to it. And

631
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about our book club meeting coming up

632
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: this weekend. But I recommend the book. Oh man, So

633
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:27,399
Speaker 1: I'll say my love of the week it can be.

634
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: This is Thanksgiving week that this is airing, And I

635
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: like my cranberry sauce recipe. It's, you know, like a

636
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 1: lot of cranberry sauce is kind of an afterthought of

637
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: the mealers that's horrible. Slice stuff out of the the

638
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 1: cans of careful of my husband love that stuff. Oh

639
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: my goodness, I'm totally on team homemade cranberry. You're on tama. Okay. Good.

640
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: So it's so good on leftovers, it's like the perfect

641
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: binder for leftovers. Well, I like the as leftovers better

642
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: than antre. I don't really like it on turkey, but

643
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: I'll have it as part of a yogurt parfe the

644
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: next day, and it's you know, good that way. But

645
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: I make it by a big bag of cranberries at Costco,

646
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: and I mix it. I boil the cranberries in apple cider,

647
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: which I swear I must have gotten this out of

648
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: Real Simple several years ago or something. That's probably where

649
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: I get like ninety percent of my recipes. But anyway,

650
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,359
Speaker 1: so I boil the cranberries in apple cider, cook them down,

651
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, they sort of explode and cook down into

652
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: the into the jelly sort of sauce. Add sugar to taste,

653
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: and you can control the sugar. If you like more

654
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 1: tart cranberry sauce, then don't put a whole of sugar in.

655
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 1: You gotta put some in. I learned this kind of

656
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 1: the hard way. I was like, you don't even have

657
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: to add sugar yeah, you do. You do have to

658
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 1: add sugar. You'd think with the apple cider maybe you don't,

659
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: but but that's not the case. But yeah, it's really good.

660
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: So shout out to that. All right, Emily, what do

661
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: you have for us? We so, Felix's birthday was yesterday,

662
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: and our wedding, our sixth wedding anniversary was Saturday. So

663
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 1: and then my one year cancer diagnosis anniversary is coming

664
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: up on Friday. So we had a very a lot

665
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: of very big emotional events this week. So we started

666
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 1: a family tradition yesterday where my husband would take off

667
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: work and we would go have an adventure as a family.

668
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: And so my love of the week is Lego Land,

669
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:30,240
Speaker 1: which is where we went for our adventure. We yay Florida, Legoland, Florida,

670
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: Lego Land in Westchester. It's yeah, it's it was, but Legoland,

671
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: Florida is now on our list. I've decided we're going

672
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 1: to become that family that tours the world to go

673
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: look at like all of the Lego Land. We love Duplows.

674
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 1: My husband is an engineer, so he's really into the

675
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 1: Legos and duplows and I love them because it's it's

676
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 1: kind of creative, open ended fun and my son loves them,

677
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: and so we can sit around as a family and

678
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: build du blows for hours and it's like our family thing.

679
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: And so we went to Lego Land and it was amazing.

680
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: It was so fun and I don't know who enjoyed

681
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: it more between the three of us. So that's absolutely

682
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 1: my love of the week was Lego Land. I will

683
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: totally give it about out for Lego Land too. It

684
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: was awesome. You should definitely do the one in San Diego. See,

685
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: and I actually didn't realize there were so many Lego Lands.

686
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, we love Lego Land too, Lego Land all around,

687
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: Lego Land, Legoland for the win. We are grateful for

688
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 1: Lego Land this week. Family, thank you so much again,

689
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: we really appreciate it. Oh, thank you for having me.

690
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 1: This was so so wonderful. Well that was all intense,

691
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: but here we are with our Q and A again

692
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 1: as we always do. So. This week's question comes from

693
00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 1: a mom of two boys who are four years old

694
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: and three months old. She is a partner at a

695
00:43:57,440 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: big law firm in the Bay Area. Her husband is

696
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: an anesthesiologist also affiliated with the university, and she had

697
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: written to Sarah and said, I know you, you know

698
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,879
Speaker 1: well based on you and your husband's jobs, like your

699
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: life is full like ours I saw. She says she

700
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: loves paper planners and journals, but has essentially given them

701
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: up entirely because so much of her planning and coordination

702
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: has to be seamlessly integrated for her husband and herself.

703
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: You know that they because they both have intense jobs,

704
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: One or the other often needs to take over one

705
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: hundred percent of the household and childcare responsibilities when the

706
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 1: other person is underwater or on call, or you know,

707
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: in a case or anything like that. So they share

708
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: a Google calendar, Apple reminders, Apple notes, and homemade laminated

709
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 1: two week calendar on the fridge. I love that we

710
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: both have to know what everything that is going on,

711
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: as it's a true partnership, She says. I'd love to

712
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: hear more about how you and Josh plan as a couple.

713
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: I think frequently about the invisible workload of women, and

714
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: I worry that any planner system that one person uses

715
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: and a two parent household that isn't shared will have

716
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 1: that invisible workload put on the person more interested in planners.

717
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 1: So have you seen or developed good ways to divide

718
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: the personal place and journaling from the family need to

719
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 1: know planning well, first of all, very interesting. I had

720
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: never thought of the planner industry as maybe one of

721
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 1: the engines driving female oppression, but maybe maybe maybe he

722
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 1: plays a role. I don't know. I will say I

723
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: think that probably more men out there could benefit from

724
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,080
Speaker 1: planner use than women could benefit from leaving their planners behind.

725
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: I also, as I've mentioned, don't think that everybody needs

726
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: to use paper. So if that's not the solution for

727
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: your family, that is certainly not wrong. But I will

728
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,280
Speaker 1: tell you know what we do, and we're not perfect

729
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: by the way. In fact, sometimes my husband will love

730
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: to remind me that's not how best of both world

731
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,879
Speaker 1: says to do. So now he can throw my own

732
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: recommendations back at me when we are not following them,

733
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: as sometimes things do get a little you know, mixed

734
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: up when things get very busy. However, we do have

735
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: a fairly functional system most of the time, and we

736
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: do actually use an electronic calendar for those shared events.

737
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 1: So if there is any event that I feel that

738
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: we both need to know about, and that includes any

739
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: weekend child event, so pretty much any birthday party, any

740
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: piano lesson unless he's on call, because if he's on

741
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 1: call for that weekend, then I really it's kind of

742
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: on me. So but unless he's on call, any weekend

743
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: child event, any kind of after hours evening event he

744
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: would need to know about, that's pretty much it. Anything

745
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 1: that's during the work day I don't necessarily find. I

746
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: mean generally, I don't have a lot of kid centric

747
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: items anyway during the workday that I have on my

748
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: own system, So I guess it just doesn't typically come

749
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,240
Speaker 1: up unless it was something like a parent teacher conference,

750
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: in which case that would go on the shared calendar.

751
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm saying is the paper is

752
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: for me. It has all of my work items, my workouts,

753
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: my own personal to do items, It has scheduling stuff.

754
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: But you know what's funny, planners have certainly evolved. A

755
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: lot of people are not using them as much as schedulers.

756
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 1: They're using them more for to do list and thought

757
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: managers and brain dumps and less as I need to

758
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: be here there at a certain time. So I do

759
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,279
Speaker 1: still keep a lot of scheduling and time blocking, but

760
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,240
Speaker 1: that's more like how I want to arrange my free hours,

761
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,839
Speaker 1: and anything that's going to affect both of us does

762
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: get shared electronically, and we did learn from a prior

763
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: guest on this show to get a shared Google address,

764
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: which like copies itself automatically to our own inboxes. I

765
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 1: believe he actually has that one on his phone, but

766
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: it also ses a copy to my main email address.

767
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: So anything for school sign ups or like her panel lessons,

768
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: anything where they're going to email us and they want

769
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: one central, it actually does go to both of us,

770
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: so we can track that as we see fit. And generally,

771
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: of like if we get an invite on there and

772
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: we say add to Google calendar, we'll go to our

773
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: shared Google calendar. So I guess I would say the

774
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:55,400
Speaker 1: shared part is generally electronic, the physical part is generally me.

775
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: And then we do have a hanging calendar for like

776
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: really big items like any's day is off, we track

777
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: on there, and like if we're going on vacation, so

778
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 1: that's just on a paper calendar that has family photos

779
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 1: that we all look at that. Yeah, so that's that's

780
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: kind of our system. There's certainly not one right way.

781
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: If you find that you are putting everything in your

782
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: system and that is leaving your partner out of crucial planning,

783
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 1: then that absolutely may be a reason to try to

784
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: move toward a more electronic system, particularly for the time

785
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: sensitive appointment type things. Yeah, I think that's great. I mean,

786
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: we really try to do our calendar meetings just so

787
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: that we can each be aware of stuff coming up

788
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,919
Speaker 1: in our own independent systems we would not do. We've

789
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: tried in the past to sort of have some sort

790
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,759
Speaker 1: of shared it just I like to do paper. He

791
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: can't do paper because he's got you know, the work

792
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: outlook stuff that is, you know, coming in and getting

793
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: scheduled often by someone who is not him. So it's

794
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,279
Speaker 1: and I would just panic when I'd look at his

795
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: outlook calendar because that I'd be like, he's got a

796
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 1: meeting at something that I know he can't do because

797
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: he's got to do this thing. And he's like, but

798
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 1: I wasn't planning on going it. They just put it

799
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: on there and not somebody else will take it, you know,

800
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: like you need him as an active translator. I need

801
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: him as a translator, so I can't. It just was

802
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: was making me unhappy to see that. So, yeah, we

803
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 1: have our calendar meetings and we trust that both of

804
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: our individual systems have these things, and you know, it's

805
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: each of us have the things that we're more into.

806
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: I guess in terms of planning, I certainly don't think

807
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:31,919
Speaker 1: about swim meets at all. In my world. There would

808
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: be no swim meets whatsoever. My husband cares about that,

809
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: so he's the one who's scheduling that, and then make

810
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: sure I know when they are whereas in my case,

811
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,640
Speaker 1: like something like a piano recital, he would never, you know,

812
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 1: think that they need to do a piano recital, so's

813
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: it winds up being some sort of split. And I mean, well, yeah,

814
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 1: you cultivated a split, which is cool because not every

815
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 1: family does. But exactly, yeah, exactly. And I will say

816
00:49:57,719 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: one more thing, Oh can I just finish? Because I

817
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:00,879
Speaker 1: just read what I here and I was like, oh,

818
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: I want to read that out loud. I was just

819
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: going to say, let's read it out loud. Some people do,

820
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 1: like me, prefer the slower and physical properties of paper

821
00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: because it tends to be more of a focusing agent.

822
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: That may not be true for everyone, but when I

823
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 1: pull that out, it's like a queue to get focused

824
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 1: and stop my mind from wandering where I find the

825
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,360
Speaker 1: phone and electronic devices to kind of do the opposite.

826
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: So again that's personal preference, and that's why I would

827
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: probably say that there are some men who probably could

828
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: benefit from paper, and maybe there's a stigma that keeps

829
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: them away from it. But I hope maybe partly. So

830
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: many planners are bright pink, so it's a little bit

831
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: more of the gender neutral or more masculine looking ones.

832
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 1: Maybe that would help people with them. All right, well,

833
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 1: this has been Best of Both Worlds Episodes sixty eight.

834
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: We've been talking about Thanksgiving and also parenting with a

835
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: serious illness, so lots to think about from this one,

836
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: but we'll be back next week with more on making

837
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: work in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can

838
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,399
Speaker 1: find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at

839
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 1: the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me

840
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the

841
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 1: Best of Both Worlds podcasts. Please join us next time

842
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: for more on making work and life work together.