WEBVTT - Ep. 599: The Fur King 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast, you can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:19.360 predict anything. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.800 The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light. 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.079 Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.560 for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.400 hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.680 dot com. F I R S T l I t 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:42.640 E dot com. Join today by a man who's understood 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.240 to be named Guy Groenwald, but who is actually Guy Grownawald. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:48.120 I guess so something like that. 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:49.599 That's how your folks would have said it. Yea, that's 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.240 how they would have said, where do you hail from? 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.320 Uh, we're from northern Germany. So my family is right 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.520 by how in a place called Friesland. 0:00:57.920 --> 0:00:59.720 And tell me how how how they would have sai 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:04.640 your last name Grumbld. They got americanized, They got americanized. 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:06.280 You guys are in the Midwest now we're in. 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:07.840 Yeah, about one hundred miles from Chicago. 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:12.200 Yeah, and you are a your family been long involved 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.080 in the fur business, a little over one hundred years. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.319 Yeah, yep, man, So. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.679 You guys picked right up whe Hudson Bay Company left off. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:22.040 Well, really, Hudson Bay didn't leave off till three years ago. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:24.919 But really, yeah, you have to explain that. Yeah, sure, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:28.000 did you know that, Randall? I can't say that I did, 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:28.919 stumped Old Randall. 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.800 Yeah. Yeah, the oldest corporation. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.319 Hudson Bay Company, was around in some fashion until three 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:35.759 years ago. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:36.400 Yeah. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:37.440 Absolutely, they all happened. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:38.000 Three years ago. 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:39.839 NAFA went out of business. 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:47.319 I thought something, dude, Biden, No, go on, you know, 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.560 it's in the spirit of blame and everything, right. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:55.280 Right, timeline sixteen seventy to one, like three hundred and 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.480 fifty years Yeah, is that right? 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.720 Yeah, they're still dealing with fur Oh that one is 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:01.120 that one? 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:01.400 Uh? 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:04.720 NAFA went out of business North American for auctions. Yeah, 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.480 but they were the there. Originally they were the arm 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:12.480 of Hudson's Bay Company and like twenty some years ago 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:16.040 and I'm sure I'm wrong, but they they broke off 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.040 and it separated, uh, the two companies, so that's still 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:21.320 you know, they held their auctions at the Hudson's Bay 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.560 Company where it was in Toronto and oh way, yeah, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.840 they only ceased having auctions in New York during I 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:32.960 think during the Sars outbreak. That's when they stopped having 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:35.480 auctions there. So like two thousand, I don't know when 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:39.680 when was the First Stars two thousand and eight or 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.280 something like that, maybe they stopped in New York. So, Yeah, 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.800 Hutson's Bay was around and really in some form until 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:45.640 just a few years ago. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:46.639 Damn. 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.320 But isn't it still around just as like a department store. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:54.880 Yeah, that's the Yeah, it's still a department store in Canada. Yeah. 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.519 Yeah, owned by the actual people, like owned. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.520 By the actual No, it was not owned by the 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.800 well it was no longer no longer had they actually 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.960 owned it and stopped using the name at one point. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.000 And then that company that they owned and didn't it 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.799 was called North American fur Auctions, became owned by other people. 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:17.600 It was bought by the ranchers, uh, the Mink ranchers 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.560 and the Fox ranchers of Canada and the United States, 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.320 and then it became you know, owned by the uh 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.240 a few people that ran the company there. They bought 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.320 it and uh yeah, three years ago it went bankrupt 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:32.400 and uh, you know a lot of a lot of 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.320 trappers lost money in it when they had skins up there. Sure, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.760 when it actually went out of business. So, yeah, we 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.320 bought a lot of the skins out of it when 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:42.360 they went bankrupt. No, I'm not. We bought a lot. Yeah, 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.920 one of the biggest deals they ever did. Yeah, I 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.880 was buying up the residue from Hudson Bay fers. I 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.560 remember where I was, exact place where I did it. 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.960 I was Indu Buku Iowa, going to a wedding with 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.560 my wife on a Saturday afternoon at five o'clock. Yeah, 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.080 I remember when they We worked on the deal for 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.600 a long time time, and you know, they had asked 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:05.240 we were a you know, what was the date. I 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.560 don't know what the date was, but it was that 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.920 first it was, uh would be about July of twenty twenty. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.920 I thought maybe it was when Seth was getting married. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:16.720 I was going to ask you if your person's officiated 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.760 a good job, because I tore it up right here. 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:25.320 You who else was buying their furs that day when 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:26.320 we were going out of business. 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.360 Nobody just you That's why. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:31.520 Uh, you know, they they had contacted everybody in the 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.080 fur trade and it was you know, it was during 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.359 COVID and it was bad and uh, you know, nobody 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:37.120 was buying. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.240 And so, uh, do you had a good deal? 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:40.320 I did, all right. 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.640 Yeah. Was your wife annoyed that you were doing that 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:43.280 at the shodding? 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.599 Yeah, she was probably a little annoyed. Yeah, yeah, but 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.320 I did you know, she was happy afterwards after, you know, 0:04:50.160 --> 0:04:52.120 she got to enjoy the fruits of the spruits of it. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:57.280 So said, Hudson's Bay Company doesn't go under very enough. No, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.880 it's a pretty rare People have been waiting on hundreds 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:01.120 of yes, oportunity. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.440 This is a once in a millennium opportunity. Sweet heart, 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:06.599 let me know all the wedding goes. 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:08.920 But it was a huge deal in the fur business 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:10.360 when they went under, you know, they were they were 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:12.400 in the ranch making business as well, so you know, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.920 it affected the entire trade. And I was I was 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:19.760 actually in China when I was with someone and that 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.560 was financing him, and I overheard a conversation where they 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.320 had they were gonna they had lent some money privately 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.160 to him, and I heard him say it, and he 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.400 probably regretted it that he said it in English, you know, 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.000 And so I was very aware that they were having 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.120 financial difficulties. And then you know, it became apparent a 0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:38.080 couple months later to the trade. But I knew it. 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.640 I knew it before anybody else when we got to 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:41.520 cover some stuff. 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.360 And when we come back, I had in my head 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.880 where we were going to start our conversation. But now 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:48.880 you got me thinking about we're going to you know, 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:50.440 we should start our conversation when. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:50.760 We come back. 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.040 Can you can you be prepared to talk about what 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.719 happened with the COVID pandemic and ranchment? 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.680 Sure I can. I can tell that story. Sure, that'd 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:03.080 be great. 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:07.799 Okay, since here, howdy, how are you liking that little scarf? 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.920 It's warm. It's not as nice as my wife's new 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:10.800 sea otter scarf. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:15.080 No, that thing is pretty sweet. But this thing's pretty 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:15.599 sweet too. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:19.960 Doctor Randall's here, uh Krinn And then Brent Reeves always 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:29.560 from Arkansas prison, and uh Spencer Newhart's here. We're gonna 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.600 be Oh so is media radio live live? 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:33.880 Yes? 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:38.520 Okay? Two different media media to radio live on the 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.679 Mediator podcast network. It's out on YouTube. What's the media 0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.560 cross red puzzle? Oh? I know about that, but that's 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.200 already out. That's out too. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.000 Both of these things have been out for a month. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.960 I get a little I get a little confusing timeline. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.960 I've been working just like a bad science fiction book. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:06:59.640 If people have been noticing that there's a lot of 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.839 weird off with release dates. I've been working on this 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.680 new show thing and and it's got me gone all 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:06.280 damn time. So we've been having a hell of time 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:08.120 getting our shows recorded and put out on time. That's 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.360 why they're all caddywampus like you're hearing news and news 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:13.480 item anymore. That's because of that reason. But you know 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.480 when that's not yeah, it means it means off kilter 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.440 like that before. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.000 We also got korein the other day with a joke 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:27.880 and it looks like it smells like updog and then 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.640 she goes, what's up dog? She just walked right into it. 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:32.640 It was very earnest. 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:35.400 What's up dog? Yeah? 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.520 And then you respond to say, not much dog, what's 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:38.040 up with you? 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:38.800 That's good? 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:43.080 And uh, we got you think tell him you invented it. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:45.360 Uh. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.760 One of the things we're gonna be doing on maybe 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:52.360 I'm the only one that knows this. One of the 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.040 things we're gonna be doing on me Eater Radio Live 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.440 is uh, I want to do segments on tattoos you regret, 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:02.720 so if you've got a hunting fishing tattoo that you regret, now, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:05.520 it's gotta be a hunting fishing tattoo. Like I wanted 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.680 to get my wild Turkey super Slam on my arm. 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:12.920 It was a map of the continent with little turkey 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.640 feet where I completed my super slam. Now, at some 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.120 point I would come on the show and talk about 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.480 how I regret doing that once I get it. So 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.720 if you got like tattoos like that, we need to 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.960 hear from you. Yeah, but I don't want to hear 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:28.960 about your ex wife being tattooed on your arm. I 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:29.520 don't care about it. 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:32.800 Right, Like, you know, I know that we've talked about 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:36.520 Chester's tattoo. 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.080 Oh, his Chesterly tattoo looks like his scrolling tattoo. 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:44.360 We should do the first Yeah, we could do the 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:48.120 first episode with Chester with his fly fishing scrolling tattoo. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.200 But maybe just like going to you know for twenty 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.040 seconds what it is. I know hopefully people have already 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:57.400 been watching and listening by now. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:57.640 Yeah. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:08:59.840 Media to Radio Live is a live radio show that 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:01.840 comes out on Thursdays on the Internet. So it's not 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.800 like the old kind of like we're not on like blank, Megahurts, 0:09:04.800 --> 0:09:08.200 we're not broadcasting from ninety nine point seven Mega. 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:11.439 Hurts broadcasting on the YouTube media. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.080 It's a classic radio show. It's a classic morning radio 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.600 show in the afternoons on Thursdays on. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.600 The internet eleven am, mst. 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.320 Oh, classic morning radio show on the internet. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.920 We got the prime window somehow. 0:09:23.040 --> 0:09:27.640 Yeah. Yeah, it's not quite drive time, it's not lunchtime. 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.520 It's kind of lunch time untime. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:33.440 Lunchtime in New York time. And it's a it's a 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.120 it's a radio show, live call ins, we check in 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.080 from people around the country. We got correspondence. It's a 0:09:39.080 --> 0:09:41.360 lot of fun. Anything can happen, and we're gonna do, 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:44.280 and we're gonna cover tattoos people regret. 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.319 And Steve was complaining about how by time some of 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.800 these podcasts comes out, the news is out of fashion. 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.520 That won't be the case with media radio. 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:52.240 So now we can do. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:52.840 Now you can do. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.400 We can do real things when they're happening good. Like, 0:09:56.440 --> 0:09:58.080 for instance, I'm gonna say I'm gonna tell a story 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.840 right now that isn't true because in my world last 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:03.640 night I went to yoga with my wife, which I 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:04.400 do once a month. 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:07.040 Is that a compromise? 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:09.599 What am I saying? I do it once a year. 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:13.040 I go to yoga like about once a year. Last 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.640 night and she asked me if I liked it, and 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:16.760 I'm like, I didn't like it because a guy set 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.720 up right in front of me, And I said, I 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.120 was telling her she thinks this is indefensible. I was like, 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.360 when I see a guy come to yoga by himself, 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.120 I view it like an adult at a when an 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.200 adult comes to like a children's playground without a kid. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.920 Like I'm like, I met yoga. I'm with my wife. 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.840 Why are you down here? You know what I mean? Like, 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:41.360 I'm not here with my wife for restorative yoga. I'm 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:42.760 here like I don't want to be here. I'm here 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:43.640 because my wife wanted to. 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.439 Come once a year in negotiation. 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.240 Yeah, and then like some guy comes in by himself, 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:48.559 Like what are you doing down here? 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:50.120 Did he get a good stretch? 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:53.480 If once a year? If once year was meeting in 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.240 the middle, where did you start on that? 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.000 I thought you were saying he was in front of 0:10:59.000 --> 0:10:59.760 me and you were liketed. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.640 Second, No, I just like the whole time I had 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:04.440 to look at this guy stretching out. It's like I 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:08.640 couldn't stand it. Man, that's a lot about my psychologist. 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:10.400 I don't blame you. 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.800 And it was called restorative yoga, which means you don't 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.600 do much. You don't do much. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.640 Was once a year in negotiation, Steve, did you have 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.560 to Uh, how'd you arrive at that number? 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:25.920 Uh? 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.480 I'd gone the longest had ever gone without seeing my 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.920 wife because I was gone for two weeks for work. 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:34.600 Now I was with my kids for two weeks fishing, 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:36.720 and so I had seen my wife in a whole month. 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.719 So we're just trying to capitalize on opportunities to hang 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:42.120 out together. And so that involved me going to yoga. 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:46.400 So if you see I look very stretched out, that's 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:47.040 what's going on. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:49.120 You restored. 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:54.000 Yep, here's some good news. So we reported during the 0:11:54.000 --> 0:12:00.520 Trump administration, we reported heavily on their efforts to increase 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:06.080 recreational access on the refuge system. So a deal with 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.520 the refuge systems is how can I explain this? Help 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.600 me explain this? Randall National Force. Let's say you're doing 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:18.400 this on a national forest, a national forest lands. The 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.360 fish and Game laws of the state are going to 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:27.160 apply on national forest lands right, yep, it's like the 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:32.640 national for the National Forest Service, which is an arm 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:37.800 of the USDA. Like, they don't make regulatory overlays on 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.360 top of state regulations. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.600 Why you look like, well, there are certain circumstances. It's 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:48.120 sort of like open unless otherwise posted, right, I mean, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.839 like there's certain areas in national forests, like where there 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.280 might be a recreational site or wherever where there are 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.240 boundaries where you can't hunt and fish. 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.600 No. No, but they don't have regulatory overlays. You wouldn't go 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.400 and be like a forest. I see what you're you can't. 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:05.880 Not a different limit? 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well the refuge system, the National Wildlife 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:15.360 Refuge System caused causes a lot of confusion because they 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:18.840 have a lot of regulatory overlays specific to the refuge areas, 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:21.840 and so when you're going there, you can look at 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.199 what's allowed in your state, and then you also got 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.280 to go like, well, what about on the refuge because 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:28.040 the refuge is going to have all kinds of extra 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.720 things in place, right, like extra regulations, and so it 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.079 creates a lot of confusion. Under the Trump administration, they 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.680 were trying to open up a lot of hunting and 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.000 fishing things because some of the regul some of the 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.800 refuge regulations felt somewhat arbitrary, meaning you know, there's like 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.839 refuges that you couldn't fish on, and no one's quitt 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.560 clear on why you couldn't fish there. Now, the refuges 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:53.880 often have like a very specific purpose, like you could 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:57.200 have a refuge meant to be a nesting ground for 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.640 shore birds, right, and so you'll take regulatory measures to 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.480 help it achieve that specific purpose and goal. But what 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.080 they were doing is they were looking at refuges and 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.520 being where are we missing opportunities, Like where could we 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:16.720 increase hunting and fishing access, decrease regulatory confusion, and open 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.400 up opportunities to hunt and fish in ways that won't 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:24.400 compromise the goal of the refuge system. And that and 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:33.920 the Biden Biden Harris administration just announced fifty three new 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.400 hunting and fishing opportunities on approximately two hundred and eleven 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.040 thousand acres nationwide on the National Wildlife Refuge System. This 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:47.320 came into place we had on Martha Stewart. Martha Stewart 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:54.960 used to Martha Stewart watching too with some shopping. I've 0:14:54.960 --> 0:15:00.160 been shopping for plate wear for lighters or CBD. I 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:08.280 means Martha Williams. Martha Williams the former head of Montana 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.960 Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks or which we call 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:18.520 fishing parks for short. So Martha Williams used to run 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.200 Montana's state fishing Game Agency. She now runs the US 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:26.160 Fish and Wildlife Service. So under her leadership at US 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:33.800 Fishing Wildlife Service, we're seeing a continuation of expansions on refuges. 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:35.440 So if you got a refuge down the road and 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.080 it always kind of burns your ass about what you 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.520 can and can't do, you should go revisit what's going 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:41.640 on there. 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.360 And that's in nine states. I feel like this sort 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.400 of news sometimes just applies to like far away in Alaska, 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:50.200 but this is, you know, very close to home for 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:54.440 a lot of folks. Kentucky, Louisiana, Nebraska, North Dakota, South Carolina, Texas, Washington, 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:55.720 West Virginia, Wisconsin. 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.040 Good job, Spencer. You should come out to show more off. 0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:01.480 Another thing, Steve, is he still going? There was a 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.840 note in here for you to plug media crosswords. 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:04.840 Do you know you didn't do it? 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.520 Okay, here's my opportunity, Steve said, Oh, and there's MEDIAA Crosswords. 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.480 What's that? Oh, no, I know what that is. And 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:11.720 then and then we just uh. 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:12.600 We'll get into it. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.040 Okay, you want to know it looks like a new 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.080 thing when it's not a new thing. Well, Media Radio Live, 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.320 just like media Crossword Puzzles came out about a month ago. 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.640 Every Wednesday morning, we have a crossword puzzle that you 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.720 can get at the medieater dot com backslash games. There's 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.640 twenty clues. It's all specific to the med eater universe, 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.080 sort of like Media to Trivia. If you like that podcast, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:34.880 you'll like the Mediata Crossword Puzzles. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:35.440 Uh. 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.680 The first one we have coming out is outdoor theme, 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:41.240 the second one National Parks, the third one hunting. So 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.640 if you enjoy this podcast or MEDIAA Trivia, you'll like 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:46.440 that the Mediata Crossword Puzzles. 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.280 And we're a month in and I've been doing tremendously. 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:55.520 I will say, sure, Karin put a letter in here, 0:16:58.200 --> 0:16:58.800 I mean. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:00.320 Scratch it up out. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:05.080 Yeah. If it wasn't his grandpa, it'd be a great story. 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.800 It goes like this, there's a guy who hunts his 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.399 grand Now it feels just as Stranger's land. I almost 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:17.359 want to tell it not true to make it better. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.000 Well, it's his grandpa's neighbor. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.600 Oh, hold on, there you. 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.600 Go, grandparents neighbor's place. I just put it in yellow. 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:31.040 Oh, it is a good story. Does this guy that 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.400 has to hunt permission on his grandpa's neighbor's place. Yeah, 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.200 I got confused there from minute. I read it one way, 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.399 then I read it another way. It's a guy writing 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:41.360 and like I was talking about, Uncle Chesty was here 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.399 and we were talking about being courteous to landowners and 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:47.919 having the attitude of is someone lets you hunt or 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:51.639 fish or trap on the land, you'd like bring him stuff. 0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:54.040 You get some sausage made up from your deer and 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.199 bring him that, and bring him a gift card to 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:01.240 to Murdoch's or or you know, like do little things 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.560 like that. Go a fifty dollars gift card to Murdocks 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.960 so he can buy some whatever. I don't know, Just 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:12.200 do stuff like that. Show that landowner that you realize 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.919 that you know, show that landowner your appreciation, and follow 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.199 their rules. I was saying, if they tell you not 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.440 to drive past that windmill, stop short of the windmill, right, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.440 And this guy writes in to say he's been hunting 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.520 on his grandpa, his neighbor's place. The guy gave him 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:35.800 two rules. No rifles, he wanted a shotgun only, and 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.120 he didn't want anyone driving four wheelers unless they were 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:43.840 retrieving a deer. And he said, other than just simple 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.960 acts of common courtesy. I hunted that place for years, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.560 and I just followed those two rules, those two simple 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.919 rules I paid attention to. That guy then sells the 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.280 property and includes in it that is law, and includes 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:03.520 in his deal that I'll sell you this land on 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.000 the agreement that these two people can keep hunting there. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.359 I mean, that's yeah, pretty solid, that's cool. 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:13.720 Yep, follow the rules. 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:15.960 Some good people right there on both sides. 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.840 Now, this is the most this is the most here's 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.080 the most thought provoking thing that's ever ben on this podcast. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.800 You ready for this? This is the most thought provoking 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:36.359 thing I've ever ever been uttered here, m I was 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:41.280 just listening to episode five seventy five where you discuss 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:45.960 Larry the musky Man's rebuttal of your anyways, here's the 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.440 part I have heard. It said that you won't generally 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.719 grow big bucks on ground that doesn't grow good tomatoes. 0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:54.960 Mm hmm. 0:19:57.000 --> 0:19:57.560 That's all. 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.360 Except for try to refute that. 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.160 Okay, I think our top our top tomato producers are 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.920 California and Florida, who are not known for their big 0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:09.480 old white. 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:12.640 They're not known for good tomatoes. They're known for bad 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:17.400 tomatoes and transport. Well, yeah, foy, it doesn't make good tomatoes. 0:20:17.440 --> 0:20:19.400 They make tomatoes that you could throw against the wall 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:19.960 and not hurt. 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.320 Good tomatoes come from where I grew up. 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:24.560 Good tomatoes come from where I grew up. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:29.760 They also come from New Jersey tomatoes, they. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:31.280 Don't come from Bozeman, Montana. 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.480 Tell you that A more simple adage to this would 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.360 just be like, if it grows good corn, I think 0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:41.880 that New Jersey got corn than five miles, you'll grow 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:42.840 big white tail bucks. 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:45.160 How about that for the why? 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.879 Because people are probably wondering why you stop short Like 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.200 by one sentence. 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.120 I was told this is because some soils lack minerals 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.720 like calcium that are required for both antler growth and 0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:00.240 tomato development. Hmmm, I'm just gonna have be that think 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:00.800 that's true. 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:05.240 Let's I think it's more thought provoking if you leave 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.240 out his hypothesis there. 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:10.880 Like not get into it. Yeah, let the listeners. That's 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:11.480 why I didn't do it. 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:15.680 I think maybe you should think about it the other 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:17.600 way that if there's a place that's known for big 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:23.920 white tail bucks that will grow really good tomatoes, that's first, yes, first, yeah, 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:26.439 that's like I think my best turkey hunting spots I've 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:28.800 ever found in my life were also had a lot 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.080 of bobcats, So you wouldn't be like, well, the best 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.879 place like, uh you find bobcats turkey? 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:38.080 Yeah? 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:40.440 Yeah, when you're scouting for turkeys, you actually just go 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.080 out and look for bobcats, that's right, or some bobcat 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:44.600 tracks at a cross and sit there and. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.119 Call looking for good white tail bucks. You go plant 0:21:47.160 --> 0:21:48.399 some tomatoes. 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.119 See how they do. So then you gotta get permission 0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.960 and be like, hey, can I get permission hunt? And 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:56.080 they're like oh yeah, sure, Like well, listen, I'm gonna 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.880 be over in May and you'll notice me out could 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.359 bait and a little tomato. It's all part of the plant. 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:09.000 It's all part of the plan. I'm not gonna get 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:14.680 into more stuff about Larry the Muskie Man struck a 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:15.440 chord with people. 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:19.360 He absolutely did. 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.040 A guy wrote in taking half a Finger to task 0:22:24.359 --> 0:22:32.439 for saying that, uh, we had colossal biosciences on and 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:37.440 talked about the science and ethics of cloning mammoths. Half 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.359 a Finger wrote in talking about how mamos or losers, 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.639 but he'd like to see one. This guy wrote in 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:48.439 being like half a Finger's got it all wrong, and 0:22:48.480 --> 0:22:52.720 he's got a BA and an MA in anthropology. Don't 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:59.440 don't isn't it? Isn't it implied? Like you don't list 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:00.000 all your. 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.000 Yeah, unless you I mean, I think that would be 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:07.679 more common if you if your degrees aren't related to 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.760 one another, like if you have a if you have a. 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:12.720 B A in English and then an. 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.600 Yeah, Like I have an associates degree too. I'm not 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:18.439 gonna because I went to community college. I'm not going 0:23:18.480 --> 0:23:22.520 to go like associates, bachelors Masters. 0:23:22.600 --> 0:23:26.159 You should English. What was the associates in? 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:27.600 I don't know what they call it. 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:29.720 Oh, yeah, I got I got one of them too. 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:32.600 Yeah, you don't put down all of them. He put 0:23:32.640 --> 0:23:34.600 down B A and M A and anthropologies get to 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.960 the end, do you know what I mean? Like when 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:41.040 he turned fifty, you don't list all the years you've. 0:23:40.880 --> 0:23:44.639 Been I guess, but just trying to say that. For 0:23:45.119 --> 0:23:49.160 two years or three years he studied at master's. 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.480 Level anthrow and then for four years. 0:23:51.160 --> 0:23:54.760 He studied six years of fire read and in. 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:56.880 That single subject, I like it. 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:01.080 I ever sign my emails. 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.400 No, yeah, I think he should cut one of them out. 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.359 Whatever one he likes most, he should leave in and 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:09.600 cut that one out. Half a figures working on something. 0:24:09.640 --> 0:24:14.280 Are you guys familiar with the ideas of the Miriam's elk? Yes, 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.840 so we have check me if I'm wrong live today 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:30.200 we have there's three American elk Rocky Mountain, Roosevelt, two Lee, 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:34.840 and the two leads are in California. And it's assumed 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:45.320 that the Miriams, the Miriams elk is extinct and Eastern. Yeah, oh, 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.520 because yeah, they read You're right, the Eastern is extinct. 0:24:49.320 --> 0:24:51.080 So the ones that are in the East now are 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:51.800 Rocky Mountain. 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:52.240 Yeah. 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:57.560 I think there was a span of like thirty some 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:02.119 years between the last Eastern Pennsylvania until they got reintroduced 0:25:02.800 --> 0:25:06.439 with Rocky Mountain. Just a little tidpit. 0:25:07.440 --> 0:25:14.080 Heffelfinger's been running all around getting old elk skeletons and 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.560 pulling DNA from them because currently they only know about 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:21.879 four specimens of Miriam's elk from skeletons like places like 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:26.960 the Smithsonian and whatnot. Heffelfinger in two thousand and six 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:28.879 he found in Miriam's elk, and he found two in 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:33.320 New York that no one knew about. At Smithsonian. I 0:25:33.320 --> 0:25:40.880 think he found two there. He goes on to say, 0:25:40.920 --> 0:25:42.800 there's always been a lot of talk about whether the 0:25:42.920 --> 0:25:46.080 Miriam's elk was really any different from those in southern 0:25:46.119 --> 0:25:49.119 Colorado at the time. If they were different, then we 0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:53.080 should be able to detect if any survived from the 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:58.119 last report in Arizona around nineteen hundred to the first 0:25:58.160 --> 0:26:02.440 translocations from Yellowstone Nastal Park in nineteen thirteen, meaning Arizona 0:26:02.520 --> 0:26:06.720 had Miriam's elk when they were extrapated from Arizona. It's 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:10.040 hard to picture elk were extirpated from Arizona and when 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.440 they brought when they reintroduced elk, as is often happens 0:26:14.440 --> 0:26:18.160 when you have a like an endemic variety goes extinct 0:26:18.160 --> 0:26:20.560 and then later you want to reintroduce it. You got 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:25.240 to pull from a new source. So Arizona had Miriam's elk, 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.879 and when they were extrapated, they were replaced by Rocky 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:33.240 Mountain Elk. In nineteen thirteen, Hefflefinger got ten thousand bucks 0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:36.960 from Dallas Safari Club as part of the Conservation trail 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:44.399 Blazer Award, which is funding his collection of samples. He says, 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.800 I just think that, He says, I just think it's 0:26:47.840 --> 0:26:50.960 cool as shit and had to share it. So he's 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.840 out there scourring around to find out is it true? 0:26:54.160 --> 0:26:56.800 Was there like a different type of elk out there? 0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:01.320 Heffelfinger also reported on something here. I don't want to 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:03.680 get into too much detail because it's brewing right now. 0:27:06.840 --> 0:27:09.720 We would discuss for that. Why there's no record book Havelina. 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:16.440 You can't shoot a record book Calina, like Boone and 0:27:16.480 --> 0:27:20.040 Crockett doesn't have a category, and Pope and Young doesn't 0:27:20.080 --> 0:27:22.639 have a category, mostly because Boone and Crockett won't accept it. 0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.520 Half a Finger put together this guy, like why does 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:31.440 this dude sleep? Half a finger puts together a big 0:27:31.480 --> 0:27:35.760 proposal which he then takes to like the board or 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:41.879 whatever at Boone and Crockett, laying out his case, you know, 0:27:42.160 --> 0:27:47.840 like laying out a presentation about why there, why they 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:50.080 should be, why there should be you should be able 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:53.159 to shoot a Boon and Crocket packery or you know 0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:57.520 collared peckery have alena and and steps are being taken. 0:27:57.720 --> 0:28:02.000 It's not done yet, but he is soliciting them to 0:28:02.240 --> 0:28:06.359 create a Heaveleena category in the Boone and Crocket record club. 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.480 I have one that I. 0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:15.080 Feel will be in there because who does have it? 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:15.399 S C? 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:18.919 I probably them, and I don't know. 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:23.200 Yeah, was there a reason why they're never there? Hadn't been. 0:28:23.640 --> 0:28:26.480 They're just not regarded that they haven't traditionally been regarded 0:28:26.480 --> 0:28:29.680 as a big game animal. They're not a small game. 0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:31.960 Yeah, you're like bridging a gap to it feels like 0:28:32.040 --> 0:28:34.760 coyotes and fox start doing. 0:28:36.080 --> 0:28:40.080 You gotta draw tag, You draw tag. Okay, now you 0:28:40.120 --> 0:28:42.480 got draw tag for cranes. In some places there should 0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:45.320 be a Boone and Crocket crane. You talk me into it. 0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:47.600 What are you gonna measure? 0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:50.520 It's beak wingspan. I suppose that. 0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:58.560 Because that doesn't last. It's gotta be bone. Okay, I 0:28:58.600 --> 0:28:59.120 got a record. 0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:04.440 But there's there's one more subspecies of elk that some 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:08.800 people recognize, including like the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.160 Tell me, I tell you if I agree. 0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:14.880 The Manitobin Elk, which is like Upper Great Plains and 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:18.320 uh Southern Canada, and they say that one is still around. 0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:19.959 I don't know if I disagree with that or not. 0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.320 You could have dealer's choice and if you you want 0:29:22.320 --> 0:29:24.560 to recognize that one or not, you. 0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:26.640 Got any tattoos, you're gonna submit to our tattoos. 0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:28.920 I regret I was thinking about. I think my only 0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:32.120 regrets are like maybe making some bigger, Like I got 0:29:32.160 --> 0:29:34.080 the dead Man's hand here and that was my second 0:29:34.120 --> 0:29:35.720 ever tattoo. I wish I'd have gone bigger. 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.360 Yeah, because when you get old wrinkly, that's gonna come. 0:29:38.400 --> 0:29:39.640 You're not gonna be tell what's going on. 0:29:39.840 --> 0:29:40.040 Yeah. 0:29:40.160 --> 0:29:41.760 So no, none that I regret. 0:29:41.840 --> 0:29:45.160 Yet it is a form of regret you were talking about. 0:29:46.840 --> 0:29:47.520 Is that batman? 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:49.680 What was that? Like a heavy metal symbol? 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.360 When I was working undercover. 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:57.680 I got you got that, say the Batman in the middle. 0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:02.480 That's yeah. Yeah. I used to work with a guy 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.960 that liked Bacardi so much. You got the Boccardi bat 0:30:04.960 --> 0:30:06.520 tattooed on him. 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:09.160 I have the hands bear tattooed on me. 0:30:09.240 --> 0:30:12.000 He said to me, you know, when you're drinking Bocardi's 0:30:12.040 --> 0:30:14.600 so fast and you get the red splotches all over 0:30:14.640 --> 0:30:15.000 your neck. 0:30:18.320 --> 0:30:19.400 Did you say yes or no? 0:30:21.520 --> 0:30:29.880 I was like, why no? Tell me more. We were 0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:34.200 actually having a Bocardi yet the time, with this little 0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:39.480 known beverage called coke Coca Cola. All right, guy, you 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:40.560 ready you got any tattoos? 0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:41.800 I don't have any tattoos. 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:43.120 You do you regret it? 0:30:43.840 --> 0:30:46.560 No, I don't regret it at all. That's kind of funny. 0:30:46.560 --> 0:30:48.880 I hang out in Madison, you know, and it's just 0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:51.480 like the men there aren't tough enough to have tattoos. 0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.080 I don't know how that'll play here, but I got 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:56.840 to Bozeman yesterday and I noticed that. 0:30:56.760 --> 0:30:59.160 You know, all the men have, you know, heavily tattoos 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:01.400 or heavily tattoos in you know, in mathsine they're not. 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:01.800 So. 0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:04.760 Yeah, I'm really curious. Like when you if in the future, 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:09.920 if people will remember this as an era of tattoos, Yeah, 0:31:10.120 --> 0:31:13.160 I would say so, like when our little kids are 0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:17.960 doing Halloween, Like when my kids are in they're in 0:31:18.520 --> 0:31:21.600 the colle in college and they're goofing on the twenty 0:31:21.760 --> 0:31:25.040 twenties like now, like they might dress like we're dressing 0:31:25.080 --> 0:31:27.880 like the eighties. We're dressing like the seventies. We're dressing 0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:30.959 like the sixties. When they're dressing like the twenty twenties, 0:31:31.000 --> 0:31:32.600 will they put a bunch of fake tattoos on? 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:35.920 Yeah, I'd say so, yeah, especially if they live out here. 0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:42.560 And people be like, oh, the twenty twenties, I don't know. Uh, Okay, 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:48.800 tell me what happened with uh? Why didn't tell how 0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:52.959 mink made international news during the COVID pandemic. 0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:57.960 Okay, So in early to twenty twenty during the pandemic, 0:31:58.560 --> 0:32:01.880 I remember it very specific, and I was I actually 0:32:01.960 --> 0:32:03.600 had to go to a wool conference cause I'm also 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.160 in the wool business. I was in Scottsdale for the 0:32:06.160 --> 0:32:09.520 wool conference and I had this great time, and I 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:11.560 flew back into a hair on a Saturday night. I 0:32:11.600 --> 0:32:13.840 had a hotel room with my wife and we were 0:32:13.840 --> 0:32:16.080 going to go to a play the next morning with 0:32:16.200 --> 0:32:16.680 some friends. 0:32:16.680 --> 0:32:18.680 But you had to interrupt the play to buy wool. 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:21.560 And so she picked me up. We had this great dinner, 0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:24.680 and I communicate with my customers in China on we Chat, 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.760 and typically you know every day that I get one 0:32:27.840 --> 0:32:29.520 or two messages when I wake up in the morning. 0:32:29.760 --> 0:32:32.840 You know, almost never on a Sunday, and you know, 0:32:33.200 --> 0:32:35.520 seldom on a Saturday. And so I woke up on 0:32:35.640 --> 0:32:39.120 Sunday morning and I remember the Hampton Inn that I 0:32:39.200 --> 0:32:41.920 was in, you know, downtown Chicago. And I woke up 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.080 and I looked at my phone. I had thirteen messages 0:32:44.400 --> 0:32:47.480 from my customers in China, and it was pictures of 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:50.440 them going trying to get back into Beijing after the 0:32:50.520 --> 0:32:53.040 Chinese New Year or whatever it was, and you know, 0:32:53.280 --> 0:32:56.600 just miles of cars because they were checking everybody's temperature 0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.520 on the way back, and other customers calling me up saying, 0:33:00.000 --> 0:33:02.480 we are so screwed that we are you know, they 0:33:02.480 --> 0:33:05.400 are shutting this whole thing down. And at the very 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:10.080 beginning of COVID, a like days after I would say 0:33:10.200 --> 0:33:13.280 days after this happened. Okay, not days after the outbreak 0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:17.280 early January, but in early February, a professor in China 0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:20.400 came out and said that it's it's mink that's causing this, 0:33:21.240 --> 0:33:24.080 and so right away, even though the guy had no 0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:26.440 reason to say it, it was totally false. It was 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:31.600 since proven false, but he met causing he was kitting kaboodle. 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:32.160 You ever heard that? 0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:38.880 Yeah, she just heard it this morning but anyway, uh, yeah, 0:33:38.880 --> 0:33:41.479 it was it. It came out that and then they 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:43.520 were like telling me, you know, hey, they're they're blaming 0:33:43.520 --> 0:33:47.000 our industry, you know. And immediately the Chinese government you know, 0:33:47.120 --> 0:33:49.920 said no raw skins in to the country, and we were, 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:51.640 you know, we were shipping a lot of stuff at 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:53.800 the time. It makes a skin raw if it's not 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:56.200 tan it's just just dried where you know, where you 0:33:56.520 --> 0:33:58.479 ship it, where you can ship it. You know, it's 0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:00.640 it's not going to putrefy you know, while it's being 0:34:00.680 --> 0:34:03.520 ship because it's dried, but it's not tanned where it 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:05.840 has any long term you know, viability. But you know, 0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:07.280 most a lot of the tanning was done. 0:34:07.160 --> 0:34:09.560 In China said no raw mink. 0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:12.919 They said no raw anything. You couldn't import anything raw, 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:14.800 but just over overnight. 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:16.719 Kind of a little late for that because i mean 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:19.400 they the pandemic is coming up China. 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.480 Yeah, but they were afraid that something would be you know, 0:34:22.640 --> 0:34:25.719 contaminated because they they literally held the disease out for 0:34:25.760 --> 0:34:28.160 two years out of their country. Besides my you know, 0:34:28.239 --> 0:34:31.239 kind of minor outbreaks, so they they just ended it. 0:34:31.320 --> 0:34:35.000 So you know, everybody thought it was kind of over 0:34:35.600 --> 0:34:39.800 and we were dressing some stuff in Cambodia already because 0:34:39.800 --> 0:34:42.799 they have a free trade agreement. So it actually sort 0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:47.759 of benefited us in some ways because you know, we 0:34:48.000 --> 0:34:50.399 were already you know, shipping stuff to Cambodia, and then 0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:52.239 we that's the route. We still go that way. You 0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:56.120 still can't import raw skins into China. It's it's impossible. 0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.400 But yeah, my uh, I ended up going to the 0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:00.600 music all that day, and it was, you know, my 0:35:00.640 --> 0:35:05.680 stomach was just you know, I couldn't hardly take it. It was, uh, gosh, 0:35:05.719 --> 0:35:08.600 maybe mean girls, I don't know, but it was. I 0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:10.880 don't really remember it. It was it was it was 0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:11.839 a rough, rough day. 0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:14.520 I mean I went to me girls. It wasn't that good, right, 0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:15.960 So yeah, makes sense. 0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:18.319 I remember going for a ride. We got up at like, 0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:19.880 you know, five in the morning and went for a 0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:22.080 ride around you know, Chicago, and there was nobody there. 0:35:22.200 --> 0:35:24.319 Me telling my wife, you know, hey, you know, things 0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:26.839 are gonna have to change, you know, And my son 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.440 still remembers me calling him up at college and saying, Christian, 0:35:29.480 --> 0:35:31.160 you know, you can't you know, go out to eat 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:33.640 any more of it. You know, it's really gonna get bad. 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:37.440 Here, well, walk me into how they killed millions of Okays. 0:35:37.480 --> 0:35:40.560 So so that so right away it got linked to mink, 0:35:40.640 --> 0:35:44.880 and then that sort of died off. Okay, but you know, 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:49.400 and there's and there's the the largest uh producer of 0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:51.920 mink outside of China, you know, was Denmark. 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.360 Okay, can you can you be another favorite and clarify 0:35:54.400 --> 0:35:55.560 there's wild mink and rant. 0:35:55.480 --> 0:35:57.919 There's there's wild mink. I mean, percentage wise of what's 0:35:57.920 --> 0:36:00.440 produced in the world, wild mink is you know, probably 0:36:00.520 --> 0:36:04.040 under ten thousand at this point. And at one point 0:36:04.080 --> 0:36:08.000 there was definitely over one hundred million mink produced commercially. 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:11.319 Maybe there was even one hundred and sixty million there 0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:14.799 was there was definitely over one hundred million. Though if 0:36:14.800 --> 0:36:16.560 you take what was produced in China and what was 0:36:16.560 --> 0:36:21.600 produced outside of China. So you know, Copenhagen sold thirty 0:36:21.640 --> 0:36:23.480 million mink a year on their sale they produced in 0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:25.800 their country, you know, I don't know, maybe fifteen to 0:36:25.840 --> 0:36:28.080 twenty million. You know, they got mink from Poland and 0:36:28.120 --> 0:36:33.200 wherever else. But anyway, some of the mink were susceptible 0:36:33.239 --> 0:36:38.080 to getting the disease. Okay, So early on the Danish 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:41.279 government said, you know, we you know, some of these 0:36:41.320 --> 0:36:44.160 farms are infected and we want you to kill everything. 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:47.560 Some people think that it was completely politically motivated, that 0:36:47.560 --> 0:36:50.080 they just wanted the end the production of mink in 0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:55.239 in Denmark and it was just the government didn't like it. 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:57.279 And it was a huge industry for him. I mean, 0:36:57.320 --> 0:36:59.160 they sold thirty million mink, you know at the peak, 0:36:59.239 --> 0:37:02.640 thirty million times, you know, probably getting very close to 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:05.200 one hundred dollars apiece that you know, they they exported 0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:07.520 out of out of Copenhagen. You know, it was definitely 0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:10.960 the biggest exchange in the world for mink. They had 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:13.200 their last sale just two months ago and they had 0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:14.719 a huge party. It was you know, a lot of 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:17.160 people from the fur industry went because it was the 0:37:17.239 --> 0:37:20.040 last hurrah. You know, Copenhagen was the center of the 0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:23.279 fur business for the last thirty years or so, and 0:37:23.400 --> 0:37:26.759 you know, now they were still selling mink from you know, 0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:28.920 they had they had had a lot of mink stored 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.440 when this happened, because the market was already in the 0:37:31.480 --> 0:37:33.719 downturn before this happened. So there was a lot of 0:37:33.719 --> 0:37:36.239 people that had bought mink at Copenhagen and Copenhagen hadn't 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:38.360 sold some of the mink, and so there was you know, 0:37:38.480 --> 0:37:41.239 millions of mink in storage at this time. And the 0:37:41.320 --> 0:37:43.319 mink that they killed, you know, they they didn't keep 0:37:43.320 --> 0:37:46.160 those mink they killed. They destroyed them, They burned them, buried. 0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:47.880 Them, whatever. And it didn't pelt them. 0:37:48.000 --> 0:37:48.920 They didn't pelt them out. 0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:50.520 Some bum information. 0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:50.680 No. 0:37:51.160 --> 0:37:53.240 But there's the reason you probably heard that is because 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:55.160 they said, people, are you know that Copenhagen was still 0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:57.520 selling mink up until two months ago they had their 0:37:57.560 --> 0:38:00.000 last sale and the reason for that was is the market, 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:02.279 you know, was poor and they they had a lot 0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:05.200 in stock. So they ended up killing off, you know, 0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:08.880 every mink in the in the country and uh, you know, 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:11.279 and there was people that you know, they got got 0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:15.480 COVID here in their mink as well. You know, are 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:19.080 they rebuilding, No, they're they're not rebuilding. The ranchers got 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:21.520 a settlement. They haven't paid out all the settlement yet. 0:38:21.560 --> 0:38:24.160 It was a it was really a fantastic settlement for 0:38:24.200 --> 0:38:26.760 the for the ranchers. If they get it all paid 0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:28.640 I don't know they've paid out some of it. But 0:38:28.680 --> 0:38:30.640 there's a lot of controversy because it was you know, 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.000 the numbers were staggering of what they got because they 0:38:33.000 --> 0:38:35.359 were paid to you know, never produce again, and so 0:38:35.440 --> 0:38:37.239 they didn't just get the value of those mink, they 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:40.760 got the value of those mink plus. So it really 0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:45.800 decimated the fur business. It really decimated the ranch for 0:38:45.840 --> 0:38:48.680 a business, which you know is difficult on the trade 0:38:48.719 --> 0:38:51.959 because you know, like the money for marketing and sort 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:55.000 of promoting for you know, the biggest entity we had, 0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:57.200 you know, was Coconhating because they handled so many skins 0:38:57.200 --> 0:38:59.680 with so many dollars that you know, if they did 0:38:59.680 --> 0:39:02.359 a one percent levy to promote fur around the world 0:39:02.400 --> 0:39:04.480 that you know, it meant something. You know, they could 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:07.200 actually do something. So it was a it was a 0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:09.439 tough loss for the fur industry. So you know, now 0:39:09.480 --> 0:39:13.319 we're really left with you know, Saga in Finland as 0:39:13.400 --> 0:39:16.920 the only major you know seller of mink. There is 0:39:17.000 --> 0:39:20.120 a small auction you know, in American American Mink Exchange. 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:23.279 They still collect some of the American mink, but you 0:39:23.320 --> 0:39:26.080 know it's much smaller than Saga. But yeah, it's uh, 0:39:26.160 --> 0:39:32.279 we went from having you know NAFA Seattle for exchange, uh, Saga, 0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:36.759 Copenhagen and uh, you know down to basically you know, 0:39:36.920 --> 0:39:39.399 just Saga now. But yeah, that was a major hit, 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:41.640 and it was because of really because of COVID, but 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:44.080 you know, really maybe not because of COVID. Maybe they 0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:45.879 the government just wanted it to be done. 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:51.319 Will that eventually cause uh, with the with all that 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:55.760 production taken off, well that eventually trickled down to wild 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:59.600 caught stuff well gaining value because it's not competing against 0:39:59.680 --> 0:39:59.960 all that. 0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:03.319 Well, we hope. So so last year, I don't have 0:40:03.400 --> 0:40:06.200 exact numbers, but let's just say the auction sold around 0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:10.000 fifteen sixteen million skins and there was still only around 0:40:10.080 --> 0:40:13.600 seven produced seven million, and yet they sold that many, 0:40:13.640 --> 0:40:15.719 so that many skins are going to be used to 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:17.880 make coats and you know this this season, you know 0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.719 they'll be pelting here in a couple months and a 0:40:20.719 --> 0:40:23.799 couple three months, and you know the production in the 0:40:23.800 --> 0:40:26.520 West will be you know six seven million. Well, you're 0:40:26.520 --> 0:40:29.800 not going to have Copenhagen selling you know, ten million 0:40:29.880 --> 0:40:32.920 old skins this year. You're not going to have even Saga. 0:40:32.920 --> 0:40:34.719 They're not going to have skins that are left over either. 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:36.960 You're going to have closer to you know, eight or 0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:40.279 ten or so million makes killed or you know, sold 0:40:40.320 --> 0:40:42.880 at auction this year. So you know, what was fifteen 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.279 million or seventeen million last year will be you know, 0:40:45.400 --> 0:40:48.479 nine or ten million this year. So definitely there will 0:40:48.520 --> 0:40:51.799 not be you know, as many as many skins available 0:40:52.080 --> 0:40:54.839 as what was demanded at the price of last year. 0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:56.640 And I think that's the important thing to look at, 0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:00.640 is you know, at last year's price, yes, which was 0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:03.560 a you know, a price that was rising but still 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:06.680 not crazy high. There was a demand for fifteen, sixteen, 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:10.480 seventeen million mink. And this year, if there's only going 0:41:10.560 --> 0:41:12.640 to be you know, say seven or eight million mink, 0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:14.719 does that price have to go up because that mini 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.239 mink was demanded, well, that many mink was demanded at 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:19.560 a much lower price. You know, if we if we 0:41:19.600 --> 0:41:22.319 want to go and double the price, you know, will 0:41:22.360 --> 0:41:26.000 there be you know, will will they will the consumer 0:41:26.080 --> 0:41:29.040 still buy buy the coat in China or in Russia 0:41:29.200 --> 0:41:32.319 or wherever. And you know, you know, certainly nobody knows 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:35.080 that answer. I mean, you know, i'd say in the 0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:37.799 United States, you know, we raised the prices of a 0:41:37.800 --> 0:41:39.360 lot of things. I mean, the price of a hotel 0:41:39.440 --> 0:41:41.439 room here in this town. You know, from five years 0:41:41.480 --> 0:41:44.839 ago is much much higher, maybe three times higher. And 0:41:44.880 --> 0:41:48.080 you know, I still got one. But we don't know 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:50.360 what the Chinese consumer is going to do and you know, 0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:52.240 the or the worldwide consumer. 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:54.200 Of you know, ranch mik is going to do. 0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:56.520 But certainly if the price you would think if maybe 0:41:56.520 --> 0:41:58.680 it could double, it's not really that high right now, 0:41:58.880 --> 0:42:01.480 it would certainly have a huge impact. Just just the 0:42:01.640 --> 0:42:04.680 what the amount it's risen in the past twelve months 0:42:04.680 --> 0:42:07.239 has has certainly helped our industry. You know, we were 0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:11.560 at certainly historical lows and we've come off those historical lows, 0:42:11.600 --> 0:42:13.280 and yeah, it's it's certainly helped. 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:16.600 So what people in the world buy for codes. 0:42:17.920 --> 0:42:22.080 I would say, you know, Chinese are obviously big consumers. 0:42:22.560 --> 0:42:25.720 They manufacture and they actually consume at the retail level. 0:42:26.640 --> 0:42:29.480 You know, Russia is still a big, you know player. 0:42:30.360 --> 0:42:32.200 They don't have the money they had, you know, five 0:42:32.280 --> 0:42:35.000 years ago, of course because of the war, but they're 0:42:35.040 --> 0:42:38.520 still you know, they still fur as in their culture. 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:42.480 Is there any kind of animal rights anti fur movement 0:42:42.520 --> 0:42:42.960 in China? 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:46.000 Yeah, sure, there is, sure, Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Some of 0:42:46.040 --> 0:42:49.920 the especially like you know, some of the movie stars 0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:53.040 are against it. In China, and they you know, they 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.600 won't do some of the ads for the people selling online. 0:42:55.680 --> 0:43:00.279 The first Yeah, yeah, sure there is. Yeah. 0:43:00.680 --> 0:43:03.200 Can you tell the story of We've talked about this 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:06.880 a bunch of times. Is the company Canada Goose was 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:12.600 selling parkas with Kyle Trim and they quit. Now they 0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:14.520 have made it a big announcement from now i'm're only 0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:18.799 using recycled fur. I took that to be I took 0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:26.319 that to be that they were bowing to pressure from 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:30.080 anti fur people, or they were looking at how are 0:43:30.120 --> 0:43:34.799 we going to achieve growth while courting the controversy of fur, 0:43:35.520 --> 0:43:39.080 and decided that a good move into the future would 0:43:39.120 --> 0:43:44.239 be to eliminate that potential pr hazard of using fur. 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:47.240 Like there's a big hunting apparel company in this town 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:49.880 and they're like moving away from showing dead animals and 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:55.239 firearms because they're like afraid about a future in which 0:43:55.239 --> 0:43:57.000 they're associated with those things. 0:43:57.400 --> 0:43:58.480 And I thought that. 0:44:00.200 --> 0:44:03.040 I thought that that would be why they were doing that. 0:44:03.160 --> 0:44:04.680 Do you feel that that's true or not true? 0:44:04.760 --> 0:44:08.239 Okay? I certainly cannot speak for them, Okay, but I 0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:10.520 have my own idea to take a stab I have. 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:13.680 I have my own ideas and I see it in 0:44:13.800 --> 0:44:16.040 a little different light. And I because I have seen 0:44:16.080 --> 0:44:17.160 this happen so many time. 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:18.960 Let me tell you you're far more credential to have 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:19.960 an opinion than I am. 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:24.239 Well, I don't know about that, but you are. And 0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:29.160 I'm sure that you know it entered into their mind, 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.520 you know, supposedly, you know, I don't know. There was 0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:35.360 some people, you know, some animal rights people had bought shares, 0:44:35.400 --> 0:44:37.280 you know. I mean I've heard all those stories, of course. 0:44:37.920 --> 0:44:41.440 But what I see as as a greater problem is. 0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:44.279 Can you touch on their exp I mean, like they 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:49.840 went from being a specialty item like cold weather stuff 0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:53.239 for out you know, sled dogg ers whatever, to being 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:55.319 New York subway where right? 0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:59.520 I mean, they exploded, right, And you know I would 0:44:59.640 --> 0:45:01.600 I would like to think that, you know, it was 0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:03.920 that the fur is what differentiated them. I mean, I 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:06.960 think it made their their garment look cool, you know. 0:45:07.560 --> 0:45:12.080 And I think, what, in my opinion, what's what I've 0:45:12.080 --> 0:45:14.919 seen in other areas where people have quit using fur, 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:19.200 is this when they started using that trim, the coyote 0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:22.520 was really out of favor, and the trim was very 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:24.600 very cheap. You know, maybe they could have put it 0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:28.040 on their coat for ten bucks. And by the time that, 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:30.799 you know, craze was over, and you know, you guys 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:33.400 have probably talked about kyote prices, you know they had, 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:37.480 you know, maybe some coyotes had gone up by certainly 0:45:37.520 --> 0:45:39.760 a factor of ten, you know. I mean, you couldn't 0:45:39.760 --> 0:45:42.160 give a coyote away to being worth over one hundred dollars, 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:44.880 you know, for a good one. And the trim became 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:49.400 a rather expensive element of the coat. And when you 0:45:49.440 --> 0:45:52.640 start talking about you know, I do know kind of 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:55.040 their numbers of what they sold, but you know, hundreds 0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:57.839 of thousands of coats a year with you know, a 0:45:57.880 --> 0:46:00.560 thirty eight dollars trim on it, it's a big number. 0:46:01.040 --> 0:46:03.320 And if you think that you can sell that coat 0:46:04.440 --> 0:46:07.400 without that trim, and you know everybody here can do 0:46:07.440 --> 0:46:10.240 the math, you know, boy, profitability is a lot better. 0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:14.439 And you know, natural fibers are that is the one 0:46:14.520 --> 0:46:17.839 limitation that they have, and that is that there is 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:21.120 you know, a maximum number of something that can be produced, 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:25.160 you know, typically, and it always pushes the price. And 0:46:25.800 --> 0:46:30.520 I think it was I think certainly cost savings had 0:46:30.960 --> 0:46:34.240 an effect on it. I see it in all natural 0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:38.319 fibers that people look to cost savings. You know, they 0:46:38.400 --> 0:46:40.759 use a petroleum based product. You know, it's twenty five 0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:44.320 cents a pound for petroleum, and that price really doesn't 0:46:44.360 --> 0:46:46.719 go up much, really doesn't go down much. And no 0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:50.560 matter how successful your garment is, it never is going 0:46:50.600 --> 0:46:54.000 to have effect on the price of of of the 0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:57.920 input of polyester. And I just I think that a 0:46:57.960 --> 0:46:59.640 lot of it was a cost saving thing. You know, 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:02.160 maybe they made I had no idea, but maybe they 0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:04.200 made a couple hundred bucks a garment. You know, especially 0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:05.919 if they sold it to a department store. They can't 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:09.000 sell it to them for retail. And you know, if 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:12.479 thirty five dollars of that was going to the trim boy, 0:47:12.640 --> 0:47:15.600 you know, the equation changes a lot for their profitability. 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:19.680 And I think you can see it with all natural fibers. 0:47:19.760 --> 0:47:21.600 You know, big companies don't like to use it if 0:47:21.640 --> 0:47:24.480 it's successful because it ends up pushing the price. You know, 0:47:24.520 --> 0:47:27.279 they they themselves if they're a big enough company, and 0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:30.000 Canada Goose they did. They ended up having the effect 0:47:30.120 --> 0:47:35.280 of literally you know, dominating the coyote market and changing 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.080 the price to a factor of ten. Can you imagine that, 0:47:38.160 --> 0:47:39.880 you know, you start out at one price and by 0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:42.560 the time you're done, you know, ten years later, you know, 0:47:42.600 --> 0:47:44.680 it's a factor of ten that you've affected the price. 0:47:44.760 --> 0:47:47.120 You know, no matter how many coats they sell, they're 0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:48.799 never going to affect the price a polyester. 0:47:49.160 --> 0:47:51.040 So, uh, is it? 0:47:51.120 --> 0:47:52.840 I was gonna that was, but I don't But I 0:47:52.880 --> 0:47:55.160 don't speak for them, but I've seen it so many 0:47:55.200 --> 0:47:58.439 times that you know, time and time again that. 0:47:58.440 --> 0:48:01.279 It's it's difficult on this is gonna be My next 0:48:01.320 --> 0:48:07.920 question is I've heard just guys saying that they that 0:48:07.920 --> 0:48:15.080 that company actually drove the price of coyotes. Oh, absolutely, 0:48:15.280 --> 0:48:19.280 like that, that demand of that that that fashion explosion. 0:48:18.680 --> 0:48:22.879 Of a coyote for Actually, there's no question really, oh 0:48:22.920 --> 0:48:24.640 my god. Absolutely they dominated. 0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:25.000 They were. 0:48:26.480 --> 0:48:27.960 I mean you know that you have to realize that 0:48:28.000 --> 0:48:31.000 in China. You know, there was copycatters that probably sold 0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:33.560 three times as many coats as they did, maybe ten 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.440 times as many coats. People that you know, copy their 0:48:36.480 --> 0:48:38.520 coat and sold it in China, Well they all put 0:48:38.560 --> 0:48:41.600 a coyote trim on it, so you know, Canada, Goose. 0:48:41.600 --> 0:48:45.439 So the people copying them just absolutely dominated the market. 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:47.600 I mean, you could buy a fake in China that 0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:50.400 you know, you couldn't tell the difference. And uh, but 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.279 they certainly they didn't fake the coyote trim. You know 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:54.239 that was still on there. 0:48:54.960 --> 0:48:57.279 Yeah, Seth, can you hold out that fox? Re meant? 0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:00.160 Can you show me? I heard a rumor once? This 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:03.360 is not a rumor that makes it sound saucy. Someone 0:49:03.360 --> 0:49:07.680 told me that when you make when you rough a parka, okay, 0:49:07.719 --> 0:49:09.560 you could grab can can people see that park of 0:49:10.719 --> 0:49:13.440 when you rough a parka, that you're Someone told me 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.200 that you're actually cutting a circle here, hold that up, Seth, 0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:19.120 and you're you're cutting it like this. Let me see 0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:22.040 that some bitch from it. Someone told me that you 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:26.440 take the kyo and you're you're kind of like snipping 0:49:26.520 --> 0:49:29.399 here and snipping here, and that's the rough. 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:29.680 Okay. 0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:30.759 Is that true or not true? 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:33.839 That's not that's sort of true. Okay. If you want 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:37.720 to show me that, I'll I'll show you. Okay. So, typically, 0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:39.480 on a coyote, which is a little bit similar to 0:49:39.520 --> 0:49:41.799 a fox, that's why it's really important to look at 0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:44.160 the neck because you'd love to have the neck look 0:49:44.239 --> 0:49:47.920 a lot like the rump. Okay, And uh, typically a 0:49:48.000 --> 0:49:51.319 coyote gets bad in the neck first, and it's it's 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:52.640 really easy. 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:57.359 I'm just reminding you to criticize that, right, So, I mean, 0:49:57.400 --> 0:50:00.280 the easy way to do this, because especially for the 0:50:00.320 --> 0:50:03.560 trim is to go like this, Okay, if you can, 0:50:03.920 --> 0:50:05.759 but if you so, you're gonna burn a whole one up. 0:50:06.320 --> 0:50:09.480 You're oh, you're gonna bork you. You'll, well, with a coyote, 0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:13.280 you maybe get three, maybe four, maybe even five five trims. Yeah, 0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:14.799 I mean these guys one out of one. 0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:16.719 Sure, Oh, these guys are professionals. 0:50:17.680 --> 0:50:19.600 You should one of coyotes right there. 0:50:20.400 --> 0:50:22.120 So yeah, you could grab one of those coyotes. 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:24.960 So when you put a show them, show us with 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:25.560 the real thing. 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:28.600 So these are actually pretty nice coyotes, and and that 0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:32.520 shows the those are good. And you could you could 0:50:32.560 --> 0:50:35.160 go down this whole strip and make a nice coyote strip. 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:37.960 Which the problem is like if you have a bad neck, 0:50:38.000 --> 0:50:39.879 you'll cut it in half here and then you'll make 0:50:39.880 --> 0:50:41.640 two strips and you'll and the problem is you have 0:50:41.680 --> 0:50:42.200 to join them. 0:50:42.320 --> 0:50:44.160 Well something looks as similar, Well, you have to. 0:50:44.120 --> 0:50:46.520 You have to join them, the two together. So then 0:50:46.680 --> 0:50:48.759 so then the problem that you have if you join 0:50:48.840 --> 0:50:50.640 if you've got a bad neck, which is what happens 0:50:50.640 --> 0:50:52.800 on a lot of coyotes. This one's got a little 0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:55.319 bit of of some problems right here, probably a little 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:57.640 dick damage and there would be a spot you'd have 0:50:57.680 --> 0:50:59.799 to correct there. But when you join them, you end 0:50:59.880 --> 0:51:01.880 up with a mohawk or you end up with a 0:51:01.960 --> 0:51:05.400 valley because it's right in the center of the trim. 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:08.400 So that's a problem. There is actually even ways you 0:51:08.440 --> 0:51:11.960 can let this out or lengthen make it wider and 0:51:12.000 --> 0:51:14.080 then lengthen it out. You can make some what they 0:51:14.080 --> 0:51:17.480 call drops in it, but it's not as simple to 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:20.880 make a really nice strip of just going around it. 0:51:20.880 --> 0:51:22.840 I mean you could go around it like this, and 0:51:22.880 --> 0:51:25.759 then you would also have that joining problem because your 0:51:25.880 --> 0:51:28.799 joinery would be sort of towards the belly because it's 0:51:28.800 --> 0:51:31.000 not long enough to go or go around. So what 0:51:31.120 --> 0:51:34.200 you'd have is this kind of you know, shorter you know, 0:51:34.280 --> 0:51:37.400 getting towards the belly you know, right here, and that 0:51:37.680 --> 0:51:39.680 would not look good. You wouldn't want that on your trim. 0:51:39.680 --> 0:51:42.160 People shouldn't be allowed to tell people's soulf it's not correct. 0:51:45.760 --> 0:51:51.719 Like news. 0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:54.200 Guy, you had a note to me when we chatted 0:51:54.280 --> 0:51:58.200 on the phone about the price of coyotes about twenty 0:51:58.520 --> 0:52:00.880 or so years before Can and a goose cup. 0:52:01.719 --> 0:52:04.600 Yeah. Popular, I remember going like to Hong Kong when 0:52:04.600 --> 0:52:06.399 the center of the fur business was in Hong Kong 0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:13.160 and maybe nineteen late nineties maybe, and you know, you 0:52:13.200 --> 0:52:15.279 could you could almost touch the whole business in China 0:52:15.440 --> 0:52:17.960 just by going around to places in Hong Kong, you know. 0:52:18.040 --> 0:52:19.600 And I'd always I had a kind of a partner 0:52:19.640 --> 0:52:22.400 there and we'd go from, you know, place to place, 0:52:22.440 --> 0:52:24.600 and you know, we'd have our sample bag and you know, 0:52:24.600 --> 0:52:26.279 we were trying to get him interested in wild for 0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:28.440 because they were all using ranch for at the time. 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:31.760 The business in Hong Kong, it was centered there because 0:52:32.160 --> 0:52:36.160 you know, during all the ships would stop there with sailors, 0:52:36.360 --> 0:52:38.600 they would they would have cheap for coats made there, 0:52:39.000 --> 0:52:42.359 and they actually manufactured them in Hong Kong. And then 0:52:43.360 --> 0:52:46.120 the you know, they they stayed there. And then as 0:52:46.160 --> 0:52:48.719 they started to become exporters, those people were still there 0:52:48.719 --> 0:52:53.000 and they accessed the Chinese labor market and that's why 0:52:53.040 --> 0:52:54.880 the center of it was there. And then it gradually 0:52:54.880 --> 0:52:57.920 moved all into China, and we moved into China, but 0:52:58.400 --> 0:53:01.239 we would bring kyotes along. You know, even though we 0:53:01.360 --> 0:53:03.640 knew we would not sell them, you know, and we 0:53:03.920 --> 0:53:06.440 would literally just beg people, you know, to take it, 0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:08.440 try it, you know, you know if you could you know, 0:53:08.560 --> 0:53:10.920 possibly use use these in any way, and they just 0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:13.440 you know, like a raccoon, you know, they could. It 0:53:13.480 --> 0:53:16.840 wasn't the longest haired item, and they could. It was 0:53:16.920 --> 0:53:19.200 cheap enough. They could use it, you know, for an 0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:21.239 inner liner, they could use it for this. They just 0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:22.840 could figure out ways to use it. And it was 0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:24.920 just like the coyote. They just you know, it was 0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:26.920 just something they couldn't use. They couldn't figure out how 0:53:26.920 --> 0:53:28.439 to use it. And then you know. 0:53:28.520 --> 0:53:30.480 Canada that time you said what it was like ten 0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:31.520 to fifteen. 0:53:31.239 --> 0:53:34.040 Yeah, ten to fifteen dollars was yeah, if you could 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:36.160 sell it, you know, you just you couldn't. They couldn't 0:53:36.160 --> 0:53:39.600 even get them to comprehend it even hardly. And then 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:42.360 just in the early two thousands it just kind of started. 0:53:42.400 --> 0:53:46.200 Canada Goose started and yeah, they they it was amazing 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:47.160 what they did for the business. 0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:50.359 Yeah, okay, now what's wrong with that beaver? 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:54.239 Well, this beaver that you have in the back of 0:53:54.280 --> 0:53:58.040 your chair, you know, really most beaver are historically in 0:53:58.080 --> 0:54:00.000 the country have been used, you know, to make felt. 0:54:00.400 --> 0:54:02.399 Yeah, and that that should have been used for that. 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:04.880 That should have been used to do that because they 0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:08.440 know not necessarily well, that's one reason, but because they 0:54:08.520 --> 0:54:11.240 just use the underwall. And beavers, even though they last forever, 0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:14.279 they're they're a very strong animal. If you shear them, 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:17.000 they don't stay clean. So in other words, if you 0:54:17.040 --> 0:54:18.279 get rid of this guard here and you have a 0:54:18.280 --> 0:54:20.680 sheared beaver, they get dirty very quickly. And if you 0:54:20.719 --> 0:54:23.480 have a long haired one, they get a bit dishoveled 0:54:23.520 --> 0:54:25.399 like this one is. Their hair goes kind of every 0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:29.040 other way. They're they're they're a beaver. It's uh, it 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:31.719 really looks unless you really can take care of it 0:54:31.760 --> 0:54:33.640 and don't use it very much. It really is. The 0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:35.920 best use is in a hat or trade. 0:54:36.040 --> 0:54:40.919 Oh okay, I thought you're going to criticize something. It's fine, 0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:42.879 you should talk. 0:54:43.400 --> 0:54:45.520 No, it's a it's a It was just when he 0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:47.359 walked in and he said, he said, it's a real 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:49.439 shame to see that beaver just sitting on the back 0:54:49.440 --> 0:54:51.600 of the chair. It should be a hat. 0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:53.600 It should be a hat somewhere. 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:55.080 Do you have a hat or not? Do you have 0:54:55.080 --> 0:54:58.000 a beaver hat. Okay, good, not a cowboy. Oh that's 0:54:58.000 --> 0:55:00.879 what I mean. A cowboy yet, dudelet's we can probably 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:01.360 fix you up. 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:04.759 Okay, this this, it's out of control around here. The 0:55:04.800 --> 0:55:07.000 other day I saw I'm not kidding you there to 0:55:06.960 --> 0:55:11.440 as see a guy in the airport. I'm not joking. 0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:14.680 There's a guy in the Bosman airport that has spurs on. 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:17.440 Gotten through TSA. 0:55:18.440 --> 0:55:21.160 He's in the baggage area wearing spur Yeah no, no, 0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.319 he did. He did gone through TSA spurs on like 0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:29.280 he's like just plane needs a speed up start spurring 0:55:29.280 --> 0:55:32.000 his seat. Now that he's got his leather work gloves 0:55:32.000 --> 0:55:35.080 folded into his belt, it's like the playing cowboy thing 0:55:35.120 --> 0:55:37.640 around here is out. 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:38.120 Like fake cowboy. 0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:41.040 Oh my god, he probably had tattoos just you know 0:55:41.200 --> 0:55:44.520 the other night when we landed, when we landed there night, Yeah, 0:55:44.560 --> 0:55:46.640 some kids stand there, looks like howardy duty. He's got 0:55:46.640 --> 0:55:48.400 a big old cowboy hat tipped down the back of 0:55:48.400 --> 0:55:50.080 his head, big old belt buckle, and he's picking up 0:55:50.080 --> 0:55:54.719 a bunch of terists. Oh yeah yeah, and he's like 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:58.399 a shuttle driver, like a shuttle driver for a dude ranch. 0:55:58.480 --> 0:55:59.960 But it looks like he just got his ass kick 0:56:00.120 --> 0:56:06.000 at a at a rodeo fight. It's out of control. 0:56:06.480 --> 0:56:08.000 But that's the thing I want to bring up is 0:56:08.040 --> 0:56:10.480 that's like driving beaver market right now. Can you talk 0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:14.000 about that like wolfelt yeah, cow and cowboy hats. 0:56:14.360 --> 0:56:16.319 Yeah, well it's it's the. 0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:19.080 Flat brim hats, hats that all the gals wear these days. 0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:21.759 Oh yeah, like the Saturday Live my big dumb hat 0:56:21.880 --> 0:56:22.640 Bozeman hats. 0:56:22.760 --> 0:56:24.640 I haven't seen that, but yeah. 0:56:24.520 --> 0:56:26.200 They did any thing about those hats called my big 0:56:26.280 --> 0:56:33.080 dumb hat. Oh, it's about girls and those huge hats. 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:37.560 Yeah. So the I mean, the cowboy hat craze is 0:56:37.760 --> 0:56:40.319 you know, uh, it's you know, it's it's huge for 0:56:40.360 --> 0:56:41.040 the business. 0:56:41.120 --> 0:56:43.040 I mean, beaver I'm not knocking on it. 0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:47.200 I mean and once again that that same metric, you know, 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:50.200 I mean, beaver prices have probably quadrupled in the last 0:56:50.280 --> 0:56:51.799 you know, five years because of it. 0:56:52.200 --> 0:56:55.120 And that's all going like, how do you make that stuff? 0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:57.359 Do they shed? Do they shred the whole thing? 0:56:57.480 --> 0:57:00.920 No, what they do is they eliminate the leather. That's 0:57:00.960 --> 0:57:03.520 the first thing that happens. They turned the leather into spaghetti. 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:06.000 So it's just you know, they make they bite it 0:57:06.040 --> 0:57:08.759 off with this machine, and and you're left the skin 0:57:08.800 --> 0:57:11.799 almost looks like it's still there. The fur is still there, 0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:13.560 and you could just put your hand right through it 0:57:13.600 --> 0:57:17.200 because the leather is gone. Okay, then it and and 0:57:17.400 --> 0:57:20.200 but before that happens, while it's still on the animal, 0:57:20.880 --> 0:57:21.960 acid is dripped on it. 0:57:22.000 --> 0:57:24.160 Okay, not while it's on the animal, you know. 0:57:24.560 --> 0:57:27.640 Well I'm sorry, Well it's still while it's still on 0:57:27.680 --> 0:57:30.720 the skin. Thanks for correcting me. I appreciate that. While 0:57:30.720 --> 0:57:32.920 it's still on the skin, acid is dripped on it. 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:35.680 Used to be mercury, right, you know the mad Hatter was. Yeah, 0:57:35.680 --> 0:57:37.680 that's why they called it. That's why that's where the 0:57:37.680 --> 0:57:39.800 mad Head is from. Yeah, from they used to use 0:57:39.800 --> 0:57:43.560 mercury carroting. Yeah, yeah, exactly, this guy he's talking about. Yeah, 0:57:43.600 --> 0:57:45.280 because it turns it orange a little bit, and it 0:57:45.280 --> 0:57:46.560 still turns it orange a little bit. 0:57:46.560 --> 0:57:48.760 When you the old days, like let's say the Mountain 0:57:48.760 --> 0:57:51.080 Man era. Yeah, they would take that beaver hide and 0:57:51.080 --> 0:57:52.080 put mercury on it. 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:53.800 Yeah, but it wouldn't have been done out here. You know. 0:57:53.840 --> 0:57:56.200 They took the beaver's you know, to Saint Louis or wherever, 0:57:56.240 --> 0:57:58.760 and they were shipped to Europe and then it was 0:57:58.840 --> 0:58:01.080 you know car had. 0:58:00.400 --> 0:58:02.200 That was making abe Lincoln heads. 0:58:02.240 --> 0:58:04.480 Even even back in the day, they would have had 0:58:04.520 --> 0:58:07.120 they would have had to have done it because because 0:58:07.160 --> 0:58:09.680 the beaver hair is actually too good, it's too smooth. 0:58:10.000 --> 0:58:11.640 So what they do by putting that acid or it 0:58:11.680 --> 0:58:14.080 used to be mercury, is they actually injure, injure the 0:58:14.120 --> 0:58:16.000 hair and give it split ends, it breaks down the 0:58:16.040 --> 0:58:19.400 carratin give it gives it a very good The only 0:58:19.440 --> 0:58:22.320 reason he knows why am I on this show. 0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:24.240 He knows this because me and him are We work 0:58:24.280 --> 0:58:26.880 on this thing called me Eater's American History. The next 0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:28.320 volume is on the beaver trade. 0:58:28.360 --> 0:58:31.360 Oh really, it just. 0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:34.000 Blew my cover. I was a really impressing guy here. 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:40.360 So like in the nineteen forties, they they developed formulas 0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:42.680 for using acid, and then now they use acid. Then 0:58:42.920 --> 0:58:44.720 then this all of this hair goes through a big 0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:47.960 machine where it's blown. They call it blowing, and all 0:58:48.000 --> 0:58:50.880 the heavy stuff falls out, maybe little pieces of leather 0:58:51.240 --> 0:58:53.960 or the guard hair. So all the guard hair falls out. 0:58:54.080 --> 0:58:54.960 They don't want the guard hair. 0:58:54.960 --> 0:59:01.680 The guard hair is worthless. It it's it's thrown away, 0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:07.480 and then so and then this stuff. So wow, I'll 0:59:07.480 --> 0:59:09.919 be in a factory next month. You can come with me, Okay, 0:59:10.120 --> 0:59:13.280 I'd love to do that. So then so then once 0:59:13.320 --> 0:59:16.280 once it's blown, once you're reduced to just that underwall, 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:19.600 it is, it's you know, it's super clean, it's free 0:59:19.600 --> 0:59:23.000 of grease, and you can take that material. Okay, And 0:59:23.040 --> 0:59:26.720 this is the most primitive form of material that there is. 0:59:26.760 --> 0:59:28.920 You know, this was that was the very first material 0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:32.080 ever used. Okay, as is people felting. They would just 0:59:32.360 --> 0:59:35.400 Indians or whoever, would just rub you know, hair together 0:59:35.560 --> 0:59:37.920 until it felt it. And when you take that stuff, 0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:42.440 it's such it's so done so precisely that within literally seconds, 0:59:42.520 --> 0:59:44.360 if you take a chunk of it, you can make felt. 0:59:44.680 --> 0:59:45.919 It turns into a piece of felt. 0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:48.840 All right. You know what's that kind of school that 0:59:49.680 --> 0:59:54.640 it's like, you know, people send their kids a certain 0:59:54.680 --> 0:59:56.840 kind of schools that they don't want them going to 0:59:56.840 --> 1:00:02.960 public school, opposite kind of the opposite kind of person 1:00:03.000 --> 1:00:05.000 that would send their kid to military school sends them. 1:00:05.040 --> 1:00:05.840 Is it Monassory? 1:00:06.560 --> 1:00:06.800 Yeah? 1:00:06.880 --> 1:00:08.160 Yeah, yeah yeah. 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:12.280 Aren't they real big into felting? They give kids felting projects. 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:14.960 I think that's like making thing like arts and crafts 1:00:15.040 --> 1:00:20.520 with colored felt. Yeah, but they're not like making felt. 1:00:20.760 --> 1:00:23.840 They're making things with felt. I think, oh, I've spent a. 1:00:23.800 --> 1:00:24.240 Lot of time. 1:00:24.320 --> 1:00:28.360 So then that so then the hat is they they 1:00:28.400 --> 1:00:31.400 take that that all that fur, that's that cut fur, 1:00:31.680 --> 1:00:34.440 and they pour it over a conic form that's maybe 1:00:34.640 --> 1:00:37.360 a foot and a half twenty four inches tall. 1:00:37.600 --> 1:00:39.480 Okay, literally just a big cone. 1:00:39.680 --> 1:00:42.160 Okay, it's it's it's just and the and the cone 1:00:42.160 --> 1:00:43.480 has a bunch of air holes in it so the 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:46.720 air can suck out so that it goes uniformly all 1:00:46.760 --> 1:00:47.520 over this cone. 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:48.720 Okay dry or what. 1:00:49.080 --> 1:00:52.560 Uh, fairly dry, and then a ton of water just 1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:55.960 goes over it and starts that felting process, and that 1:00:56.080 --> 1:00:58.400 fur comes out of that. It just comes out in 1:00:58.480 --> 1:00:59.440 this big cone. 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:00.160 Okay. 1:01:00.200 --> 1:01:02.360 And that's the start of a cowboy hat. It's just 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:05.560 what it's just a massive cone, that's all it is. 1:01:05.560 --> 1:01:08.040 So they don't start by making a big sheet of felt. 1:01:08.240 --> 1:01:11.560 Absolutely not. It's in a it's in a cone form 1:01:11.840 --> 1:01:14.440 and it's and it's it's felt, and you can grab that. 1:01:14.680 --> 1:01:16.520 And then they start they put it on and they 1:01:16.560 --> 1:01:19.160 start pressing it together and going like that and they 1:01:19.360 --> 1:01:21.240 turn it so it doesn't get a fold that stays 1:01:21.280 --> 1:01:22.640 in it, you know, because they want to keep turning 1:01:22.680 --> 1:01:25.280 it so that it stays like that, and it just 1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:28.680 keeps getting you know, uh more. I don't know what 1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:31.000 the word would be. You know that it kind of 1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:33.560 locked together, you know. And then they and then they start, 1:01:33.640 --> 1:01:36.240 depending on you know, the order that they have or 1:01:36.240 --> 1:01:39.960 whatever they you know, put it into a form, right, 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:43.200 and sometimes that the the they're called bodies once they're 1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:46.640 made into those cones. And sometimes they just sell the body. 1:01:46.720 --> 1:01:50.320 So there's three there's three primary deals in the hat business. 1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:53.280 It's it's for cutting, okay, So those that would be 1:01:53.360 --> 1:01:55.600 a separate factory. You cut the fur, you tree, you 1:01:55.720 --> 1:01:58.479 carried it, and you cut it, and you may sell 1:01:58.520 --> 1:02:00.360 that fur, or you may send it on to your 1:02:00.360 --> 1:02:03.360 own factory, which would be the body making. So then 1:02:03.400 --> 1:02:06.600 you make a body just this cone, okay, and then 1:02:06.640 --> 1:02:08.960 that cone you you have to send that on to 1:02:09.080 --> 1:02:11.320 another factory, and that's called a finishing factory. And that's 1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:14.560 like you know, stets and resist all, you know, all 1:02:14.640 --> 1:02:17.400 the the hat companies here in the States, they would 1:02:17.440 --> 1:02:20.680 buy a lot of times hat bodies, you know, and 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:23.400 then they they have all these these forms you know 1:02:23.440 --> 1:02:25.400 for cowboy hats are it could be easily one hundred 1:02:25.440 --> 1:02:29.040 years old that they use to form form the finished 1:02:29.040 --> 1:02:29.600 hats out. 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:31.120 Of I don't want you to think I'm dense, but 1:02:31.120 --> 1:02:32.920 I just want to make sure I understand this correctly. 1:02:34.440 --> 1:02:39.200 Each hat, each cowboy hat, each stats and hat is 1:02:40.280 --> 1:02:42.880 started out with handfuls of beaver. 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:44.280 Fur, handfuls of beaver fur. 1:02:45.320 --> 1:02:48.840 That will only ever belong to that hat. 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:50.840 Which will only belong to that hat. Well, I mean, 1:02:51.440 --> 1:02:53.480 if it's if it's a poorer quality one, it's mixed 1:02:53.480 --> 1:02:54.680 with more hair or rabbit. 1:02:55.120 --> 1:02:57.680 But if it's say, yeah, you when you take that fur, 1:02:57.800 --> 1:03:00.600 you're forming a hat. You're not forming a fabric. 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:03.040 No, you're you're forming a fabric that's in a cone 1:03:03.040 --> 1:03:04.240 shape for that hat. 1:03:04.360 --> 1:03:07.280 It's not it's not a flat fabric. Did you know that, Randall? 1:03:07.640 --> 1:03:08.000 I did. 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:10.840 And before you get to the coney you make bats. 1:03:11.040 --> 1:03:13.400 I believe, no, the. 1:03:15.480 --> 1:03:16.920 This was so validing to me. 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.680 Yeah, so just now, no, No, it's it's it's usually 1:03:19.720 --> 1:03:25.479 it's the fur is sort of uh uh rained over 1:03:25.520 --> 1:03:29.160 this this form that has air air sucking little tiny 1:03:29.160 --> 1:03:32.360 holes in it and it's sucking all the time so 1:03:32.400 --> 1:03:35.800 that it gets covered just perfectly. I mean, it looks 1:03:35.840 --> 1:03:38.160 like snow, like if they're using you know, bleach beaver, 1:03:39.240 --> 1:03:41.560 it looks like it looks like snow. We bleach beaver 1:03:41.680 --> 1:03:43.120 at our place for it. So if you see it, 1:03:43.160 --> 1:03:45.240 bleach beaver has pretty well it's come from our place. 1:03:46.040 --> 1:03:48.480 Yeah, from now on, when I see a hat cowboy 1:03:48.520 --> 1:03:52.200 hat at the airport or whatever, as you think to myself, 1:03:52.480 --> 1:03:58.640 are you sure? Are you sure you're cowboy? No, I'm 1:03:58.640 --> 1:04:01.880 gonna start thinking that's a will have processed to form 1:04:01.920 --> 1:04:02.280 that hat. 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:05.480 Ask him how many X it is, and you'll find 1:04:06.040 --> 1:04:11.040 it's it's not totally industry wide. So some some places, 1:04:11.200 --> 1:04:13.280 you know, one hundred X maybe one hundred percent beaver 1:04:14.040 --> 1:04:16.920 kind of originally maybe it was, but some people, you know, 1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:18.960 they kind of there was a little bit of X 1:04:19.000 --> 1:04:22.800 inflation and uh, some companies they have a thousand X. 1:04:22.800 --> 1:04:24.920 Maybe that's there one hundred percent. You know, it's just 1:04:25.000 --> 1:04:29.040 different companies use different standards, so you can't always be sure, 1:04:29.320 --> 1:04:30.160 but you know, you can. 1:04:30.000 --> 1:04:32.280 Feel it walk through like we're idiots. What the xes mean? 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:36.720 That's the X means? I'm sorry, it's uh, it's it's 1:04:36.800 --> 1:04:40.360 what percentage. You know, your your hat is beaver, so 1:04:40.680 --> 1:04:44.400 you know, uh yeah, so a poorer quality one would 1:04:44.400 --> 1:04:46.560 be maybe a ten x and it would be mostly 1:04:46.600 --> 1:04:50.440 hair or mostly rabbit, no kid, Yeah. 1:04:50.280 --> 1:04:54.240 What's the most common other fur that's supplemented in there? 1:04:54.520 --> 1:04:57.040 I would I would say wool is the most common. 1:04:57.040 --> 1:05:00.240 And if you if you feel a wool hat, okay, 1:05:01.160 --> 1:05:04.680 they use like a lamb's wool about it. I don't know, 1:05:04.720 --> 1:05:08.840 maybe sixteen to seventeen micron that they use. And you know, 1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:10.640 you look at that hat and you're like, wow, that 1:05:10.720 --> 1:05:13.480 is the finest cowboy hat you've ever seen. And you 1:05:13.600 --> 1:05:16.680 take a beaver hat after that, it's it's you can't 1:05:16.680 --> 1:05:19.560 believe how much better it is. You think that wool 1:05:19.640 --> 1:05:22.439 hat is just unbelievable characteristic. Does it get Well, it's 1:05:22.480 --> 1:05:24.760 just a better hand. We use the word hand in 1:05:24.800 --> 1:05:29.040 the wool business, but it's just it's smoother. It's just 1:05:30.160 --> 1:05:34.600 it just feels so incredible. The difference between and you know, 1:05:34.640 --> 1:05:37.680 some beaver is right around twelve microns and you know 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:40.000 the wool they're using it's around seventeen, so it's only 1:05:40.040 --> 1:05:44.439 five microns difference, maybe six microns difference, but it's it's 1:05:44.600 --> 1:05:47.600 just one hundred percent beaver hat. It's just an unbelievable 1:05:48.000 --> 1:05:51.640 you know, you when you have one that's one hundred 1:05:51.640 --> 1:05:54.280 percent beaver, ninety percent beaver, it's you know it. 1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:56.560 I mean it's so that's a one hundred X hat. 1:05:56.840 --> 1:06:00.240 Well, it's it's different companies used different you know, there's 1:06:00.280 --> 1:06:02.280 a little bit of inflation over the years with the X. 1:06:02.400 --> 1:06:04.760 What do you can you lay out the price difference? 1:06:04.800 --> 1:06:07.919 I mean it's probably hard brands, but yeah, to buy 1:06:07.920 --> 1:06:10.720 one hundred percent beaver, you're looking at how like what 1:06:10.840 --> 1:06:13.360 sort of percent increase over a boat? 1:06:13.400 --> 1:06:16.040 I would say, you know, you could be at ten times. 1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:18.160 You know, you could be at eighteen hundred dollars hat 1:06:18.600 --> 1:06:20.800 versus one hundred and eighty for maybe a ten X. 1:06:21.200 --> 1:06:23.120 But I don't even know if you can really buy 1:06:23.120 --> 1:06:24.720 a ten X for one hundred and eighty, So maybe 1:06:24.720 --> 1:06:27.400 it's less difference, you know. I think, like a really 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:31.480 good hat, you know, is fifteen to two, but you 1:06:31.480 --> 1:06:33.640 could you know, you can spend more than that, so 1:06:33.880 --> 1:06:37.280 somewhere between five and ten times, you know, But then 1:06:37.320 --> 1:06:38.920 you know, then you have wool hats, then you have 1:06:38.920 --> 1:06:41.360 one hundred percent you know, hair hats or rabbit hats, 1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:44.520 and you know, it's not my business, so but I 1:06:44.600 --> 1:06:46.400 you know, I know a little bit, you know, a 1:06:46.480 --> 1:06:48.880 rabbit hat, but it's you know, it's a rabbit fur. 1:06:49.000 --> 1:06:52.800 Yeah, it's not ears. 1:06:53.320 --> 1:06:54.880 But it's a nice you know, it's got a nice 1:06:54.920 --> 1:06:56.360 it's got a nice feel as well. 1:06:56.480 --> 1:07:00.840 You know. Yeah, Hey, I notice you got a you 1:07:00.840 --> 1:07:02.480 got yourself a blaze orange wedding ring. 1:07:02.640 --> 1:07:02.880 I do. 1:07:03.680 --> 1:07:04.720 He's letting the world know. 1:07:04.800 --> 1:07:05.920 I'm trying to keep them away. 1:07:06.080 --> 1:07:08.600 Yeah, the cameras will pick up. 1:07:09.200 --> 1:07:12.040 I'm taking he's having problems. He's got he's like, I 1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:13.400 need to get a shiney your wedding ring. 1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:15.560 No problem. 1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:22.640 I notice I noticed on your website you list seventeen 1:07:22.720 --> 1:07:25.520 different pelts here that you offer, and they're all on brand. 1:07:25.600 --> 1:07:27.760 Like it all it's to be expected, except for one 1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:30.960 of them, ringtail. What do you do with ringtails? 1:07:31.280 --> 1:07:34.440 Ah, it's it's a lot of novelty, you know, it's 1:07:34.480 --> 1:07:35.400 not a it's such a. 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.080 Small and like what does that get turned into? 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:37.360 Though? 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:37.880 Oh? 1:07:38.160 --> 1:07:40.360 People hanging on their wall mostly that's it. But it 1:07:40.400 --> 1:07:42.200 is a it is a beautiful item. I mean, it's 1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:44.480 a it's it's it looks like a muskrat belly. It's 1:07:44.560 --> 1:07:46.960 it's got that. You know. In the fur business, a 1:07:47.000 --> 1:07:51.960 good color is always blue, okay, And and a ringtail 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:55.840 is really blue. You know, the fur underneath is really 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:57.960 a color of blue, like a like a muskrat belly 1:07:58.040 --> 1:08:00.520 is blue. That's always here, like you know, like a raccoon. 1:08:00.560 --> 1:08:02.520 When it's a good color, it has sort of a 1:08:02.560 --> 1:08:05.000 shade of blue to a good fur buyer, even even 1:08:05.040 --> 1:08:06.840 a really good kayak, you know, you you know, we 1:08:07.000 --> 1:08:09.120 see like kind of blue in that because it's got 1:08:09.120 --> 1:08:12.200 that that clear, clear look to it. But that's a 1:08:12.320 --> 1:08:14.400 ringtails does have a beautiful color. 1:08:14.440 --> 1:08:16.880 And those come in from trappers or hunters. 1:08:16.640 --> 1:08:19.719 Or trappers trappers. I mean, it's it's a small item 1:08:19.760 --> 1:08:20.480 in the Southwest. 1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:21.000 Yeah. 1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:23.960 What what are like the other most exotic furs that 1:08:24.040 --> 1:08:24.599 you deal with? 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:31.000 I mean, I mean price wise. You know, Western bobcats 1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:33.439 are certainly, you know, the most exotic, you know, I mean, 1:08:33.479 --> 1:08:35.879 I mean I'm a fur buyer, so to us, exotic 1:08:35.960 --> 1:08:39.880 means price. You know, that would be by far. You know, 1:08:40.000 --> 1:08:42.000 Western bobcat could be one thousand dollars right now. 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:44.719 Kirks up. He's like, I'm gonna. 1:08:44.960 --> 1:08:48.639 I don't sell anything about interest in that, right, right? 1:08:49.640 --> 1:08:50.559 What do possums go? 1:08:50.640 --> 1:08:50.800 For? 1:08:51.080 --> 1:08:51.600 Possums? 1:08:51.680 --> 1:08:52.559 What are they used for? 1:08:53.920 --> 1:08:54.120 You know? 1:08:54.479 --> 1:08:54.599 Uh? 1:08:54.920 --> 1:08:57.360 They they make innerliners in China out of them, They 1:08:57.439 --> 1:08:59.960 make trims out of them. You know, we die crazy color. 1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:03.639 But when you have a mank at that you can 1:09:03.640 --> 1:09:06.360 buy a ranch mank for you know, twenty five dollars, 1:09:06.360 --> 1:09:09.599 it's tough to get you know, eight bucks for a possum. 1:09:10.000 --> 1:09:11.760 And the problem there is, you know, we send it 1:09:11.800 --> 1:09:14.200 to Cambodia and spend you know, a couple of bucks 1:09:14.240 --> 1:09:17.400 on shipping and you know three four dollars on dressing. 1:09:17.640 --> 1:09:19.360 You know, you just you can't. It's not a real 1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:21.200 viable you know item. 1:09:21.520 --> 1:09:25.919 And the skunk trade is novelty it. 1:09:25.720 --> 1:09:29.479 Is the tails are used in you know, the acidics 1:09:29.560 --> 1:09:35.280 use them some and uh what for hats tails? Yeah? 1:09:36.040 --> 1:09:40.760 Scroll down on your talking points document. I put a 1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:46.599 photo in there of a strim, is that right, guy? 1:09:47.000 --> 1:09:48.600 Yeah? 1:09:48.960 --> 1:09:49.240 Yeah? 1:09:49.240 --> 1:09:50.479 How do you throw skunk into that? 1:09:51.120 --> 1:09:53.600 You know that's there's some magic to do with that. 1:09:53.760 --> 1:09:55.639 I you know, that's that's a real secret of trade. 1:09:56.320 --> 1:09:56.920 Yeah. 1:09:57.400 --> 1:10:01.240 Yeah, so a Hasidic Jews hat might have. 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:05.000 It might Yeah, surprised you didn't know that, Steve, They 1:10:05.120 --> 1:10:05.880 use a lot of tails. 1:10:05.880 --> 1:10:10.000 Say well, I mean you're subject matter expert in multiple 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:10.960 things going on there. 1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.080 What reason of the country has the best coyotes? 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:16.479 Uh, you know, like like here is a is a 1:10:16.520 --> 1:10:19.400 great coyote, you know, and the other thing is like 1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:21.320 as a fur buyer, you know, we always we always 1:10:21.320 --> 1:10:24.080 look at quantity, you know, so we put quantity and 1:10:24.120 --> 1:10:27.240 quality together. And uh, you know the Dakotas, you know, 1:10:27.280 --> 1:10:30.040 maybe have a few more trappers. That's and it's it's 1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:32.600 a really good, good coyote. But yeah, and then you 1:10:32.600 --> 1:10:35.479 know across the border into Canada is a fantastic coyote. 1:10:35.520 --> 1:10:39.280 You know, just this big the big circle, the Dakotas, Montana, Wyoming, 1:10:39.479 --> 1:10:40.480 you know, Manitoba. 1:10:40.840 --> 1:10:42.320 That circle is by far the best. 1:10:42.400 --> 1:10:47.040 Now, if someone sells like a black coyote, yeah, it's it's. 1:10:46.880 --> 1:10:48.960 Just it's just novelty, which is not you know, we're 1:10:48.960 --> 1:10:51.320 not big novelty people. You know, we're we're the fur 1:10:51.360 --> 1:10:55.080 trade and we do sell some novelty stuff, but that's 1:10:55.080 --> 1:10:56.599 not really what we're we're doing. 1:10:56.680 --> 1:11:00.640 Gotcha, why is a bobcat Let's I'm a guy in 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:04.320 Texas and you say, bobcast are a thousand bucks, And 1:11:04.360 --> 1:11:08.120 I'm down in Texas where it's bobcast season year round, 1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:11.519 there's no bag limit. And I go and my ears 1:11:11.600 --> 1:11:15.000 perk up. And I'm in South South Texas and my 1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:18.720 ears perk up, and I'm like, holy cow, is it 1:11:18.760 --> 1:11:22.479 gonna be a nice Christmas around my house? Why should 1:11:22.520 --> 1:11:23.559 I not get excited? 1:11:23.760 --> 1:11:26.679 Because it's it's it's it's almost to the point where 1:11:26.680 --> 1:11:29.200 it's not even the same animal as far as the 1:11:29.240 --> 1:11:32.640 fur trade goes. It's like a coyout from you know, 1:11:33.280 --> 1:11:35.960 it's like a it's like a kyout from Bozemans versus 1:11:35.960 --> 1:11:37.280 a kyout from you know, Georgia. 1:11:37.280 --> 1:11:40.320 But put it like like explain it like radiots. Okay, 1:11:41.080 --> 1:11:42.000 they got spots. 1:11:42.800 --> 1:11:44.800 Yeah. First first thing is, you know when I talk 1:11:44.840 --> 1:11:47.080 about blue type, I mean a cat is an item 1:11:47.160 --> 1:11:49.599 that you really want, you know, you want that white 1:11:49.640 --> 1:11:51.840 to be white, you want that black to be black, 1:11:52.360 --> 1:11:54.479 and you want some fur quality, which you know, we're 1:11:54.479 --> 1:11:56.639 far enough north here, we got some length of the fur. 1:11:57.280 --> 1:11:59.519 You get to you know, you get to Texas and 1:11:59.560 --> 1:12:02.000 they are you know, a tenth of the length of 1:12:02.360 --> 1:12:03.960 at least a fifth of the length of the for 1:12:04.120 --> 1:12:06.840 they're twenty percent. You know. You know, a cat from 1:12:06.880 --> 1:12:09.559 here is is darn near as heavy as this coyote, 1:12:09.600 --> 1:12:12.559 you know. And you know the belly on a cat, 1:12:12.680 --> 1:12:14.720 you know, is so important. You know, the back has 1:12:14.800 --> 1:12:17.920 just sold off as scrap, you know what, and sure 1:12:18.120 --> 1:12:20.800 sure is not using the garment, and so they when 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:21.400 you when you have. 1:12:21.479 --> 1:12:23.840 Oh, I think you're talking about Kyle bobka Boby. 1:12:23.840 --> 1:12:26.519 Yeah, I got lost. Yeah, So when you go when 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:28.760 you have a cat, which we don't have one here, 1:12:29.520 --> 1:12:31.759 it's so important, you know, the width of the belly, 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.000 and around here, the width of the belly is typically 1:12:34.120 --> 1:12:37.120 very big. You know, a Texas belly could be three inches, 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:39.080 you know. But in some of the areas, in the 1:12:39.120 --> 1:12:41.120 high countries of Texas, though, they you know, they still 1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:44.320 get a pretty u a pretty nice cat, so they 1:12:44.320 --> 1:12:45.840 have the I mean, I would say in Texas, you 1:12:45.840 --> 1:12:48.519 could get the stuff over by Louisiana could be worth 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:52.479 you know, thirty bucks, and you could get something in 1:12:52.479 --> 1:12:55.559 the high country in the western part of uh Texas 1:12:55.560 --> 1:12:58.920 that could be worth five hundred in the same state. Yeah, 1:12:59.000 --> 1:13:01.080 I mean, of course, Texas is very big state. You know, 1:13:01.160 --> 1:13:04.439 Montana would not be like that because uh, it's it's 1:13:04.479 --> 1:13:07.080 a it's a pretty mymnduenous bobcat this whole area. 1:13:07.600 --> 1:13:07.960 Uh. 1:13:08.080 --> 1:13:10.799 What's the current state of the white tailed deer skin trade. 1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:13.599 It's a little better than it was. I would say 1:13:13.640 --> 1:13:16.240 it's actually a little healthy. The tail business is is 1:13:16.720 --> 1:13:20.000 very good and the high business, you know tail business. Yeah, 1:13:20.040 --> 1:13:24.400 they use the fly tying and for uh Hasidic hats too, 1:13:24.439 --> 1:13:25.599 they yeah. 1:13:25.760 --> 1:13:28.080 Can I can? I Uh? I want to walk you 1:13:28.160 --> 1:13:29.840 back to a memory I have and then you maybe 1:13:29.840 --> 1:13:33.679 you can comment on that memory. I used to sell 1:13:33.880 --> 1:13:36.160 for at the Ravan of Fur Auction in Michigan. 1:13:36.360 --> 1:13:39.000 Oh really, no, kidd, Yeah, I buy Michigan. I bought 1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:40.400 for years. It's my area. 1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:45.280 That was our local. Yeah sure so, uh, Michigan Travers Association, 1:13:46.560 --> 1:13:50.599 we're put on this fur auction at Ravan Michigan stuff. 1:13:51.640 --> 1:13:51.960 Uh. 1:13:52.120 --> 1:13:56.400 And and they would when you're when you're doing it, 1:13:56.479 --> 1:13:58.360 just to give you, I'm not I'm gonna tell you 1:13:58.400 --> 1:14:00.400 something you already know about, gonna tell the list. There's like, 1:14:01.000 --> 1:14:04.600 let's say you have muskrats. Okay, you're gonna break your 1:14:04.680 --> 1:14:10.719 muskrats out into four or five categories. Kits Medium's large, 1:14:10.760 --> 1:14:15.240 you know three damage. Okay, so four categories maybe yeah, yeah, 1:14:15.240 --> 1:14:19.719 I mean large, medium, kits and smalls maybe kits, smalls damages. 1:14:20.040 --> 1:14:22.799 But either way the buyer buys. The buyer is buying 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:28.000 pretty specifically. Okay, when you do mink, you might have 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:33.360 like you sell large males together and then right, and 1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:36.040 there's a lot of specificity. So they're buying like things 1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:38.360 that are similar to each other every time it comes through. 1:14:39.400 --> 1:14:43.400 Deer hides would be that how they ran it in 1:14:43.439 --> 1:14:47.000 the eighties and early nineties. Deer hides be the first 1:14:47.000 --> 1:14:51.519 deer hide that went on the table. They would bid 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:52.839 on that white tailed. 1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:54.360 Deer skin, and that's what all of them would bring. 1:14:54.520 --> 1:14:58.240 And whatever that hide bought, they entered into a contract 1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:01.760 to buy all deer skins at that price, so they 1:15:01.800 --> 1:15:04.120 couldn't look at how full of holes it was, how 1:15:04.120 --> 1:15:06.559 big it was, whether the guy had taken care of 1:15:06.600 --> 1:15:10.200 it or not. Yeah, guys would be out in the 1:15:10.240 --> 1:15:12.400 parking lot. I saw it with my own eyes. Guys 1:15:12.439 --> 1:15:14.719 would be out in the parking lot taking large deer skins, 1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:16.960 cutting them across the waist, rolling them up and selling 1:15:16.960 --> 1:15:19.760 them as too. Because the guys weren't able to grade it. 1:15:20.000 --> 1:15:22.400 Yeah, that's I mean, that's not really the way it is. 1:15:22.479 --> 1:15:24.479 I mean, you know that way it was. Yeah, that's 1:15:25.200 --> 1:15:27.080 I mean the guy you're trying to call me a liar. No, 1:15:27.120 --> 1:15:30.600 I'm just saying that, But I mean that's that's the 1:15:30.640 --> 1:15:33.920 guys getting hose. Then you know that felt, I mean I. 1:15:33.920 --> 1:15:36.120 Felt it was a disservice to white tailed deer skins. 1:15:36.160 --> 1:15:38.920 But you know, a pretty much an adult deer. Okay, fine, 1:15:38.920 --> 1:15:41.439 you get the occasional buck that's much bigger, but you know, 1:15:41.760 --> 1:15:44.360 adult deer don't have a lot of variation in size. 1:15:44.360 --> 1:15:46.120 As long as it's not a fawn. You know, it's 1:15:46.120 --> 1:15:49.880 typically one price. Michigan happens to be probably the best 1:15:49.880 --> 1:15:53.479 deer hide in America. What Yeah, yeah, best deer eyes 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:56.400 because they aren't affected by they don't must not have 1:15:56.479 --> 1:16:01.240 much multiple rose air, and they don't have scratch. So 1:16:01.280 --> 1:16:02.360 it's it's a really right. 1:16:02.360 --> 1:16:03.559 I didn't grow up around a lot of that. 1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:04.080 Yeah. 1:16:04.320 --> 1:16:07.000 It all lives at a place called Doug Durrance Farm. 1:16:07.280 --> 1:16:10.720 Okay, so you're kind of a Nick, you're kind of 1:16:10.720 --> 1:16:12.679 a modern day Nick Adams lives there. 1:16:14.600 --> 1:16:16.240 Yeah, we didn't have a lot of that growing up. 1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:19.960 Right, So that. Yeah, they're deer hides, degrades of deer skins. Yeah, yeah, 1:16:20.000 --> 1:16:22.639 Scratches are the biggest thing on a deer. Southern deer, 1:16:22.800 --> 1:16:24.960 you know, even though some places in the in the South, 1:16:25.000 --> 1:16:26.640 the deer hiyes are you know, decent size, they've got 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:27.479 a lot more scratches. 1:16:28.400 --> 1:16:31.400 Yeah, scratches on the leather, scratches on the hair, like 1:16:31.439 --> 1:16:32.280 the hair is damaged. 1:16:32.320 --> 1:16:35.200 No, the hair is all, you know, disregarded, it's all 1:16:35.240 --> 1:16:37.800 taken off. You know, hair doesn't mean anything. But they 1:16:38.080 --> 1:16:40.280 have less hair as well, on those southerns so they 1:16:40.320 --> 1:16:43.640 have less protection. And but yeah, Michigan hide is like 1:16:43.680 --> 1:16:49.240 if Wisconsin is you know, you know, seven bucks, Michigan 1:16:49.360 --> 1:16:52.760 is nine. You know, it's like, what do. 1:16:52.800 --> 1:16:56.800 They I want to ask you what they're doing with it? 1:16:56.920 --> 1:16:59.800 What what deer skins go for? Now? What they used 1:17:00.000 --> 1:17:05.240 white tailed deerskins for today? But this girl who went 1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:09.080 to high school with she later married this dude who 1:17:09.240 --> 1:17:15.280 was from Argentina. That's not true. Whereada hell he's from 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:23.600 He bought cattle in Patagonia. He was a buyer for 1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:28.160 like Mercedes, Benz and Cadillac and shit, he bought leather 1:17:28.920 --> 1:17:34.240 for leather interiors. He went where he bought leather. He 1:17:34.240 --> 1:17:37.120 would go to places where they did not use barbed wire. Yeah. 1:17:37.200 --> 1:17:38.519 See, that's that's the same thing. 1:17:38.800 --> 1:17:41.080 That's why he was always buying. He was always buying 1:17:41.200 --> 1:17:45.920 cattle hides, cow hides down in Patagonia because they weren't 1:17:46.640 --> 1:17:48.840 because you couldn't get a big enough piece. They wanted 1:17:48.880 --> 1:17:52.160 to use whole single pieces. Yeah, barbed wires and brands 1:17:52.200 --> 1:17:55.479 on interiors. And he would go to these places. He's like, 1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:57.800 I buy, I basically go where there's no barberarre because 1:17:57.800 --> 1:18:00.479 I'm trying to find perfect But you know. 1:18:00.640 --> 1:18:02.479 I mean like the deer skin business. I mean, you 1:18:02.520 --> 1:18:05.040 brought it up and you want to know about the leather. 1:18:05.280 --> 1:18:07.479 I mean the thing that's hurt the deer skin business. 1:18:07.680 --> 1:18:11.360 I mean, really, we're at below prices of ten years ago, 1:18:11.400 --> 1:18:13.360 when we were much below just a few years ago. 1:18:13.680 --> 1:18:16.559 I mean, overall, dear skin prices are down there. They're 1:18:16.640 --> 1:18:18.360 they're up a bit from where they were maybe a 1:18:18.439 --> 1:18:21.400 couple of years ago, but overall, certainly adjusted for inflation 1:18:21.479 --> 1:18:24.040 from twenty years ago, they're much cheaper. And you know, 1:18:24.080 --> 1:18:27.040 the overall reason is something I touched on before, and like, 1:18:27.120 --> 1:18:29.840 you know, even twenty years ago, all tennis shoes were 1:18:29.840 --> 1:18:32.680 made of leather, and today you can't hardly find a 1:18:32.680 --> 1:18:35.080 pair of tennis shoes just made a leather. And so 1:18:35.120 --> 1:18:37.720 the cowskin business is horrible. 1:18:37.840 --> 1:18:39.679 The cowskin business is terrible. 1:18:39.840 --> 1:18:43.320 Yeah, because the sneakers, it's sure, and that's that's a deal. 1:18:43.360 --> 1:18:45.880 We're large manufacturers. You know. People looked at it, and 1:18:45.920 --> 1:18:47.479 Nike looked at it and said, hey, you know we 1:18:47.520 --> 1:18:50.160 want to send, we want to save you know, you know, 1:18:50.280 --> 1:18:52.519 five bucks a pair of shoes or whatever. And you know, 1:18:52.800 --> 1:18:55.400 the price of you know, petroleum to go into their 1:18:55.400 --> 1:18:57.680 shoe just doesn't change. So we're going to use that 1:18:57.760 --> 1:19:00.439 no matter how fashionable they get. So yeah, when the 1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:02.880 Chinese consumer kind of came into the market on all 1:19:02.880 --> 1:19:05.120 these things, it sort of changed the game because now 1:19:05.120 --> 1:19:07.599 we were you know, if something became popular, became popular 1:19:07.600 --> 1:19:09.840 with you know a billion and a half people, well 1:19:09.920 --> 1:19:11.320 you know, it's gonna. 1:19:11.240 --> 1:19:12.160 Take the price with it. 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:14.000 You know. We saw in the early two thousands, we 1:19:14.000 --> 1:19:16.879 saw all those commodities go crazy. You know, leather, cotton, 1:19:17.200 --> 1:19:19.280 you know, wool, everything went nuts. You know, when the 1:19:19.320 --> 1:19:21.920 Chinese consumer entered, and then the reaction was to hey, 1:19:22.000 --> 1:19:24.680 let's you know, let's just not use those products. So 1:19:24.720 --> 1:19:27.439 they've so there's been a huge change in what's what's 1:19:27.479 --> 1:19:29.679 being you know, what the consumer can actually buy. 1:19:29.760 --> 1:19:32.920 So what would like what products? If you're a dude 1:19:32.960 --> 1:19:37.000 out wand and around, what products might you look at? 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:39.559 And you might be looking at a white tailed deer 1:19:39.640 --> 1:19:41.439 skin killed by an American? 1:19:41.680 --> 1:19:45.680 I would say mostly glove business. You know, it's mostly gloves, and. 1:19:45.640 --> 1:19:47.880 A lot of places offer that trade, like you can 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.280 trade in you know, ranch gloves. You get ranch gloves for. 1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:52.920 Yeah, one deer, we do it. We do it. 1:19:53.000 --> 1:19:53.200 Yeah. 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:55.160 When I yeah, when I was a kid, they would 1:19:55.160 --> 1:19:57.000 do it. And it was the kind where the scene 1:19:57.080 --> 1:19:59.680 was on the outside, so you didn't have good dexterity 1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:01.880 and when you when your hand got wet and you 1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:04.320 pulled out, most insulation was stuck to your. 1:20:04.200 --> 1:20:05.439 Hands, right right. 1:20:05.520 --> 1:20:07.240 Well, we tried to have a little better glove now, 1:20:07.280 --> 1:20:09.120 but but yeah, it was. It was to the point 1:20:09.320 --> 1:20:10.800 you couldn't even trade a pair of gloves a couple 1:20:10.840 --> 1:20:12.200 of years ago. It was so cheap. 1:20:12.479 --> 1:20:14.120 So who are you selling deer skins to? 1:20:14.400 --> 1:20:19.639 We sell it all to Asia, Yeah, tanned or just no, no, no, 1:20:19.680 --> 1:20:21.920 everything's just salted. Do you send it with the hair 1:20:21.960 --> 1:20:23.680 on it? We sent it with the hair on it. 1:20:23.680 --> 1:20:25.479 As a matter of fact. You know that ship that 1:20:25.560 --> 1:20:30.960 got well, okay, so we had we had a load 1:20:31.360 --> 1:20:35.120 delivered to that ship like a day before the cutoff day. 1:20:35.160 --> 1:20:37.080 So we were like one of the last containers getting 1:20:37.080 --> 1:20:40.000 on that ship. The day after that ship, I don't know, 1:20:40.040 --> 1:20:41.560 I don't know the story. The ship in Baltimore that 1:20:41.640 --> 1:20:42.240 hit the bridge. 1:20:42.479 --> 1:20:44.880 Oh that ship, that ship hides on it. 1:20:44.960 --> 1:20:48.040 Yeah, Well, the next day somebody sends me a picture 1:20:48.240 --> 1:20:51.000 of a TikTok with deer hides floating around with Baltimore. 1:20:51.040 --> 1:20:53.200 Had my brother lives in Baltimore, and you like went 1:20:53.240 --> 1:20:56.400 down there and you know, and we were and he 1:20:56.520 --> 1:20:58.559 was my brother is the one that got the deer 1:20:58.600 --> 1:21:00.600 heides booked on that load. And we were sure that 1:21:00.640 --> 1:21:02.760 it was ours because we thought, hey, they only lost 1:21:02.760 --> 1:21:06.200 two two containers actually fell off the boat and they 1:21:06.320 --> 1:21:08.160 lost the stuff and we have thought for sure it 1:21:08.240 --> 1:21:10.240 was ours. And we just found out like three weeks 1:21:10.280 --> 1:21:13.120 ago that it wasn't ours, So our, it was somebody else. 1:21:13.160 --> 1:21:15.080 Had deer hides that lost them on that on that ship. 1:21:17.120 --> 1:21:18.200 White deer skins. 1:21:18.240 --> 1:21:19.479 They were Canadian. I think. 1:21:21.560 --> 1:21:23.280 Did your ship make it? It is, it's still city. 1:21:23.520 --> 1:21:26.559 It got it got re routed and it's going right now. 1:21:26.960 --> 1:21:30.240 So good luck. Yeah, hopefully they're still they're still fresh enough. 1:21:30.280 --> 1:21:31.840 Yeah, you do. I highly recommend to you. 1:21:32.000 --> 1:21:33.040 What do you highly recommend? 1:21:33.160 --> 1:21:36.639 There's a thing called me Eater's American History, The Long Hunters. Okay, 1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:40.600 hear me out, Okay, The Long Hunters. It covers Colonial 1:21:40.640 --> 1:21:46.000 America from seventeen sixty three to seventeen seventy five, and 1:21:46.040 --> 1:21:47.960 it's the story of the white tailed deer skin trade. 1:21:48.160 --> 1:21:48.439 Okay. 1:21:49.280 --> 1:21:55.519 At a point in that audio original, which features the 1:21:55.880 --> 1:21:58.639 impeccable research of doctor I'm impressed. 1:21:58.680 --> 1:22:01.400 I will say that I'm serious. We have we have 1:22:02.360 --> 1:22:04.160 turned up an air today on the bats thing. 1:22:04.280 --> 1:22:09.920 So yeah, we get into not just deer skins being sold, 1:22:10.000 --> 1:22:12.720 American deer skins being sold in England. We covered just 1:22:12.760 --> 1:22:17.840 the ones that were seized by pirates and or privateers 1:22:18.600 --> 1:22:21.800 and sold as bounty as loot, and we have a 1:22:21.840 --> 1:22:23.400 shipwreck and a shipwreck. 1:22:23.760 --> 1:22:26.280 Wow, and those deer skins were covered three years later. 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:29.960 Yeah, there's like still the recording. There's reporting in the 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:33.320 seventeen hundreds, there's reporting of a shipwreck. Tell the story, Ranel. 1:22:33.600 --> 1:22:36.960 It was a it was a ship going to Liverpool 1:22:37.280 --> 1:22:40.240 that had stopped in Ireland and then wrecked in the 1:22:40.280 --> 1:22:45.360 mouth of a river. And you know there's newspaper articles 1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:48.960 describing the cargo that was lost. And then three years later, 1:22:49.040 --> 1:22:52.599 if you're reading these auction announcements for cargoes, come over. 1:22:52.720 --> 1:22:56.280 There's one that says, you know, there's twenty two hundred 1:22:56.360 --> 1:23:00.800 or so damn badly damaged deer skins recovery from the 1:23:00.840 --> 1:23:05.800 containership XYZ that had sunk in the mouth of the 1:23:06.000 --> 1:23:10.919 whatever river three years prior. So, I mean just almost 1:23:11.040 --> 1:23:14.599 straight out of the headlines. And fifty years later. 1:23:15.479 --> 1:23:16.560 Do you know you ever heard of what you know 1:23:16.600 --> 1:23:20.679 what a privateer is? No, it's a state sanctioned pirate. Okay, 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:23.680 So picture like, let's say we hate who do we 1:23:23.680 --> 1:23:28.960 hate the most? I ran Okay Iron North Dakota. Right now, 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:33.479 I'm not like, this isn't like earth breaking, this isn't 1:23:33.520 --> 1:23:35.720 like news show material. But we're a little you know, 1:23:35.800 --> 1:23:39.160 things are a little hot right now between us and around. 1:23:39.560 --> 1:23:46.840 Let's say our government said to a pirate type person, 1:23:47.479 --> 1:23:50.240 We're like, hey, you can be a pirate basically under 1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:58.240 license from US. Well, the Hooties state sanctioned. They're like 1:23:58.320 --> 1:24:01.320 state sanctioned pirates. There's state sanctions that they sort of 1:24:01.400 --> 1:24:04.639 operate as a criminal enterprise under the flag of Iran, 1:24:05.439 --> 1:24:09.080 under the support and ban of Iran, armed by Iran. 1:24:09.880 --> 1:24:15.559 So these privateers, English privateer England would send out these 1:24:15.640 --> 1:24:23.000 pirates to seize white tailed deer skins leaving where South Carolina. 1:24:23.640 --> 1:24:27.559 Uh, the English would be seizing skins coming typically out 1:24:27.560 --> 1:24:28.360 of New Orleans. 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:30.400 Yeah, they wouldn't want to seize their own whether. 1:24:30.200 --> 1:24:33.200 It Yeah, yeah, like French French and yeah, French and 1:24:33.240 --> 1:24:36.040 Spanish ships sort of coming out of New Orleans. And 1:24:36.080 --> 1:24:40.280 then there are also some Spanish ships coming out of Florida. 1:24:40.800 --> 1:24:44.280 But yeah, wece ver And then you'd read that, uh, 1:24:45.000 --> 1:24:49.200 an English privateer had seized several thousand deer skins from 1:24:49.200 --> 1:24:52.200 a French privateer that had previously seized them from an 1:24:52.200 --> 1:24:55.800 English merchant vessel. And so there's this back and forth 1:24:55.840 --> 1:24:58.760 and then it's like you can view these goods next 1:24:58.840 --> 1:24:59.960 Sunday down at the dock. 1:25:03.920 --> 1:25:06.160 I'm gonna tell you one last thing about this thing. 1:25:06.200 --> 1:25:10.760 You got to read listen to. Uh, you've attended many 1:25:10.800 --> 1:25:12.519 for auctions. Yeah, I have. 1:25:12.680 --> 1:25:15.840 Yeah, they had this habit of not a habit. 1:25:15.880 --> 1:25:19.120 They had a thing like you'd light a candle at 1:25:19.160 --> 1:25:21.680 a auction. You'd light a candle and bidding added when 1:25:21.680 --> 1:25:25.960 the candle went out, which leaves a certain level of uncertainty. 1:25:27.120 --> 1:25:29.200 So if you're thinking, like you're sitting on a good 1:25:29.200 --> 1:25:31.479 bid in your pocket, right and you're like, well, I'm 1:25:31.520 --> 1:25:34.840 gonna wait for the last second, there's like an uncertainty 1:25:34.880 --> 1:25:37.240 about when that candle flicker out, and it makes you 1:25:37.280 --> 1:25:37.920 get to the point. 1:25:38.280 --> 1:25:40.960 Right, you've seen this done? 1:25:41.320 --> 1:25:44.000 No, no, no, it's in. It's in media's American history, the 1:25:44.000 --> 1:25:44.439 long Hunters. 1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:45.880 We should light one of them in here. 1:25:52.560 --> 1:25:55.160 How how easily can you tell the difference between a 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:57.440 wild mink and a ranch mink? 1:25:57.560 --> 1:26:01.240 Great question, it's not even it's it's just natural. I 1:26:01.240 --> 1:26:02.000 mean you could see. 1:26:02.120 --> 1:26:03.800 If I was holding it right here, could you tell 1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:05.280 the difference between absolutely? 1:26:05.360 --> 1:26:06.360 Yeah, And then would. 1:26:06.120 --> 1:26:07.680 It be something that we could easily tell it? 1:26:07.960 --> 1:26:10.519 Just that within within ten minutes I could show show 1:26:10.520 --> 1:26:12.280 you the difference. First thing is that wild mink is 1:26:12.280 --> 1:26:15.000 going to be get Oh, it's going to be half 1:26:15.040 --> 1:26:17.800 as big. So that's that's one thing that's going to 1:26:17.840 --> 1:26:19.080 tell you and that and the fur is going to 1:26:19.160 --> 1:26:21.799 be twice as long on a on a wild mink. Okay, 1:26:21.920 --> 1:26:23.920 you know, h ranch make have been bred over the 1:26:24.000 --> 1:26:26.959 years to get shorter and shorter to look real velvety. 1:26:27.120 --> 1:26:30.160 You know, they don't like, for instance, this beaver. The 1:26:30.200 --> 1:26:32.240 reason a lot of the reason why it looks kind 1:26:32.240 --> 1:26:35.960 of dishoveled is because you know, it's just its hair is, 1:26:35.960 --> 1:26:37.559 you know, two inches long. But if you have a 1:26:37.840 --> 1:26:41.599 if you have a mink that you know, is really short, 1:26:41.640 --> 1:26:43.800 like a crew cut on a guy, you know, I mean, 1:26:43.800 --> 1:26:46.240 it's going to stick up all the time. So it looks, 1:26:46.320 --> 1:26:49.280 you know, really uniform. And uh and and and the 1:26:49.320 --> 1:26:52.559 whole animal looks really uniform. Even the belly looks almost 1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:55.160 identical to the back, whereas a wild mink it gets 1:26:55.160 --> 1:26:57.920 a little shorter. On the belly, it gets noticeably shorter. 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.320 And yeah, just in a course, colors, you know, ranch 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:04.680 mak are probably thirty colors. You know, you can have purples, 1:27:04.800 --> 1:27:05.280 you know what. 1:27:05.560 --> 1:27:09.160 Really surely sure see that turkey decoy off your left shoulder, 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:10.880 I see it. Yeah, that was made by a guy 1:27:10.960 --> 1:27:14.720 named Dave Smith. Dave Smith was showing me pictures of 1:27:14.760 --> 1:27:18.320 these mink he was catching in Oregon. I mean they're 1:27:18.360 --> 1:27:20.840 like they look like small otters, right, yeah, you know 1:27:20.960 --> 1:27:24.120 he feels that he was catching escapees. 1:27:24.680 --> 1:27:26.080 Yeah, if there was a ranch around there, it had 1:27:26.200 --> 1:27:27.599 you know, we buy we buy a lot of them 1:27:27.600 --> 1:27:29.320 on the trucks that have been escapees because you know 1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:34.000 Wisconsin and oh yeah, yeah, immediately you can tell yeah 1:27:34.120 --> 1:27:36.800 that is big. Yeah, yeah, you'd be able to tell. 1:27:37.320 --> 1:27:39.439 I mean, every once in a while you have a 1:27:39.560 --> 1:27:43.160 ranch mank and you know, you handle you know, thousands 1:27:43.160 --> 1:27:44.960 and thousands, and you're like, you know, it's just a 1:27:45.160 --> 1:27:46.760 it's just a wild maker is it's a ranch mak. 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:49.799 But basically it's just very easy to tell the difference. 1:27:50.560 --> 1:27:52.320 So I mean, like like a ranch fox. You know 1:27:52.360 --> 1:27:55.439 the difference you guys have that fox here, A ranch 1:27:55.479 --> 1:27:57.400 fox is you know three times the size of this 1:27:57.960 --> 1:28:00.639 it is. Oh yeah, it's bigger than a coyot wow, 1:28:00.680 --> 1:28:02.040 oh yeah, yeah bigger. 1:28:01.800 --> 1:28:03.360 Than Why what? 1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:04.320 Why? 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:05.599 Like why do they want them that big? 1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:08.920 Just because it's you know, easier to work with. You know, 1:28:09.320 --> 1:28:11.280 they're making trims out of most of the foxes, and 1:28:11.439 --> 1:28:13.240 you know it's you know, if you're gonna if you're 1:28:13.240 --> 1:28:15.000 gonna skin an animal, if you're gonna scrape it, you're 1:28:15.000 --> 1:28:16.960 gonna try it, you're gonna tan it. You'd much rather 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:19.880 do one instead of two. You know, it's it's much cheaper. 1:28:19.960 --> 1:28:21.880 So fox and mink. What else do you buy that 1:28:21.960 --> 1:28:23.320 comes from a rancher? 1:28:24.720 --> 1:28:29.160 Oh there's uh Chinese or fin raccoon, but it's really 1:28:29.280 --> 1:28:31.640 yeah sure, yeah, it looks like it's a little bit 1:28:31.680 --> 1:28:33.720 like it's really got the fur of a coyote, kind 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:34.880 of a little darker. 1:28:35.600 --> 1:28:36.880 They're raising raccoons. 1:28:37.000 --> 1:28:43.680 Yeah, sure, head there's no ranch coyotes. 1:28:44.520 --> 1:28:48.360 Uh no, no ranch that would. 1:28:50.280 --> 1:28:54.400 This is a huge ranchers, your ranch and what it's a. 1:28:54.320 --> 1:28:56.400 Big change in direction here. But so this is a 1:28:56.439 --> 1:29:00.960 family business. Yes, Uh when when you were growing up, 1:29:01.040 --> 1:29:05.360 I mean, were you trapping things? I mean I'm sort 1:29:05.360 --> 1:29:08.400 of wondering, like what parts of the process you've had 1:29:08.439 --> 1:29:11.479 your hands in. I like it, did you ever just 1:29:11.720 --> 1:29:13.519 learn to trap so that you knew that part of 1:29:13.520 --> 1:29:14.000 the business. 1:29:14.160 --> 1:29:16.600 I trapped as a kid because muskrats were worth a 1:29:16.640 --> 1:29:18.519 lot of money. Yeah, you know, I mean my dad 1:29:18.520 --> 1:29:20.400 couldn't help me because you know, it was in the 1:29:20.439 --> 1:29:23.040 middle of first season and you know, it was craziness, sure, 1:29:23.160 --> 1:29:26.720 and but I bought fur. I think I went on 1:29:26.760 --> 1:29:28.840 a truck. I had to have a driver. I think 1:29:28.880 --> 1:29:30.880 I was either fourteen or fifteen when I first went 1:29:30.880 --> 1:29:32.240 out a truck, out out. 1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:33.799 Buying to buy for at fourteen. 1:29:33.920 --> 1:29:36.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had my own I had my 1:29:36.360 --> 1:29:39.000 own route I had, I had had a driver and 1:29:39.080 --> 1:29:41.439 we go around to the trappers and and buy fur. 1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:44.160 And then I bought fur until my first couple of 1:29:44.240 --> 1:29:46.040 years of college. And then you know, it was kind 1:29:46.040 --> 1:29:48.120 of eighty seven and the kind of big crash then 1:29:48.520 --> 1:29:51.200 kind of the European crash, and then I finished my 1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:54.000 degree and came back in like ninety one. 1:29:54.600 --> 1:29:55.760 What all degrees did you get? 1:29:56.720 --> 1:29:58.400 I don't want to. I don't want to say, because 1:29:58.680 --> 1:29:59.960 we were, you know, knocking. 1:29:59.720 --> 1:30:00.680 The but. 1:30:03.000 --> 1:30:06.400 I thought we Yeah, I have a degree in economics. 1:30:06.920 --> 1:30:11.479 Yeah, Randall's got a PhD Oh, yeah, they can. 1:30:11.479 --> 1:30:13.280 Tell I don't need one. 1:30:15.120 --> 1:30:16.080 No one really does. 1:30:19.280 --> 1:30:20.120 What was going on? 1:30:21.320 --> 1:30:22.200 What year were you born? 1:30:22.400 --> 1:30:26.080 I was born in sixty six. My friend Stu Miller, 1:30:26.120 --> 1:30:30.160 who's a trapper, he uh, he said, every generation has 1:30:30.240 --> 1:30:34.519 its own fur boom, meaning he calls his fur boom, 1:30:34.560 --> 1:30:36.559 which is the twenty thirteen fur boom. 1:30:36.800 --> 1:30:39.000 H he calls it the mini fur boom. 1:30:39.320 --> 1:30:41.400 And when he says the mini fur boom, he's referring 1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:44.360 to like the big fur boom, which was seventy eight 1:30:44.400 --> 1:30:47.080 to eighty two, and then there was another big fur 1:30:47.120 --> 1:30:49.439 boom in the roaring twenties or you know, you probably 1:30:49.439 --> 1:30:54.840 know them all. I'm curious about, like what causes that 1:30:54.880 --> 1:30:57.479 to happen, But let's focus on Let's focus on the two, 1:30:57.920 --> 1:31:01.040 like what happened in nineteen seven and what happened in 1:31:01.040 --> 1:31:01.960 twenty thirteen. 1:31:02.640 --> 1:31:04.479 Well, I guess in seventy eight, you know, it was 1:31:04.560 --> 1:31:07.439 kind of the European fur boom, and you know the 1:31:07.479 --> 1:31:10.760 Europeans it was very fashionable to wear wild fur, and 1:31:10.800 --> 1:31:12.360 you know, you just it was it was it was 1:31:12.400 --> 1:31:14.800 even unbelievable just to be in the business, you know, 1:31:14.840 --> 1:31:17.519 I mean, I you know, our factory went from just 1:31:17.560 --> 1:31:20.479 a few workers to seventy, like you know, overnight. It 1:31:20.600 --> 1:31:23.360 was just unbelievable. Raccoon prices went from a few bucks 1:31:23.400 --> 1:31:27.160 to thirty dollars, you know, overnight, and you know, everybody 1:31:27.280 --> 1:31:30.280 was a trapper, and you know, it was very fashionable 1:31:30.280 --> 1:31:33.720 and for you know, for and then that that kind 1:31:33.760 --> 1:31:36.479 of boom kind of lasted a while because you know, 1:31:36.479 --> 1:31:38.280 it kind of moved around. It went from you know, 1:31:38.320 --> 1:31:40.680 started in Germany, went to Italy, Spain, you know, and 1:31:40.720 --> 1:31:42.679 even ended up you know, in America. We were wearing 1:31:42.760 --> 1:31:44.800 you know, beaver coats in the in the eighties and 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:48.200 and raccoon coats, and it was a great thing for 1:31:48.280 --> 1:31:51.639 that generation because you know, my parents' generation was raised, 1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:55.480 you know, in the depression, and you know, the retailers, 1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:57.679 you know, their first thing to sell a coat was, hey, 1:31:57.720 --> 1:31:59.720 this won't last for two seasons. This will last for 1:32:00.080 --> 1:32:03.800 two generations, you know, and my parents' generation they love that, 1:32:04.040 --> 1:32:07.439 you know, and so that was the that was the 1:32:07.479 --> 1:32:09.919 fur boom of the seventies. It was it was high fashion, 1:32:11.040 --> 1:32:13.680 and then it was ended, not because it went out 1:32:13.680 --> 1:32:16.679 of fashion, but because the animal rights activists, mostly in Europe, 1:32:16.720 --> 1:32:19.280 you know, they really really killed it in Europe, and 1:32:19.320 --> 1:32:23.880 then you know, kind of lost lost fashion ability, and 1:32:24.000 --> 1:32:27.599 you know my generation kind of you know, rejected it 1:32:27.640 --> 1:32:30.840 for the opposite reason, or yeah, for the opposite reason, 1:32:30.960 --> 1:32:33.120 and that you know, my generation didn't grow up in 1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:35.719 the depression, and we didn't want something that would last 1:32:35.800 --> 1:32:38.439 for you know, two generations. You know, we wanted something 1:32:38.439 --> 1:32:41.080 that would last for you know, a season. We want 1:32:41.120 --> 1:32:44.120 to buy a new car every year and or every 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:46.960 couple of years. And so the first thing that a 1:32:47.000 --> 1:32:49.200 retailer would say to my generation was, hey, you know, 1:32:49.280 --> 1:32:51.679 I'll store that coade for you for the next twenty years, 1:32:51.680 --> 1:32:53.760 you know, and charge one hundred and fifty bucks every year. 1:32:53.880 --> 1:32:56.000 Retailer was more interested in storing the coat than he 1:32:56.080 --> 1:33:00.000 was selling it. And so the retailer in the first 1:33:00.120 --> 1:33:03.680 business all over the western world did the exact opposite 1:33:03.680 --> 1:33:05.720 of what they should have done to sell, you know. 1:33:05.880 --> 1:33:08.360 Fer to my generation that I think that has a 1:33:08.400 --> 1:33:10.479 lot to do. You know what ended it? They didn't 1:33:10.640 --> 1:33:13.800 keep it going because my generation wants to buy it 1:33:13.800 --> 1:33:15.640 at Kia. You know, we don't want to buy, you know, 1:33:15.720 --> 1:33:17.920 stuff that we have to you know, have around for 1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:20.960 a while, so you know, and it's a perfect thing 1:33:21.000 --> 1:33:23.200 to throw away, you know, it you know, goes in 1:33:23.240 --> 1:33:25.439 a landfill, it'll disappear, you know. But that's not the 1:33:25.439 --> 1:33:27.120 way my generation looked at it. We looked at it 1:33:27.120 --> 1:33:29.400 as something we had to keep, like grandma did, you know, 1:33:29.479 --> 1:33:31.559 forever and then give it to her, Give it to 1:33:31.560 --> 1:33:34.360 her granddaughter, but it was. It was an amazing times. 1:33:34.520 --> 1:33:37.000 And you know for the next you know, fifteen years 1:33:37.080 --> 1:33:39.040 or whatever when you bought fur, you know, you listen 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:41.120 to that. Let me tell you. I mean, every trapper 1:33:41.120 --> 1:33:42.760 you know would come to the truck and say, you know, 1:33:43.200 --> 1:33:45.320 you know, you remember when you know, red fox were 1:33:45.360 --> 1:33:48.320 ninety dollars and you know, and you know, do you 1:33:48.360 --> 1:33:50.040 ever think it's going to be like that again? And 1:33:50.400 --> 1:33:52.400 you know, I wouldn't say that. The next boom, you know, 1:33:52.479 --> 1:33:57.240 in thirteen or twelve, ten eleven, uh, was you know, 1:33:57.280 --> 1:33:59.160 a mini fur boom. I mean it was a massive 1:33:59.160 --> 1:34:01.120 fur boom and it consumed a lot more mink. You know, 1:34:01.320 --> 1:34:07.880 mink production I think peaked in eighty seven, maybe thirty 1:34:07.880 --> 1:34:10.599 million mink or something like that, you know, and uh, 1:34:10.880 --> 1:34:12.760 you know, and in the second peak, you know, the 1:34:12.840 --> 1:34:14.560 ranch mink peaked at you know, maybe one hundred and 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:15.040 thirty million. 1:34:15.120 --> 1:34:16.000 Who was buying it then? 1:34:16.080 --> 1:34:18.600 Who was wearing it in in the first boom or 1:34:18.640 --> 1:34:20.479 the second second In the second boom, it was a 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:24.920 lot of Chinese and Russia, Ukraine, but yeah, a lot 1:34:25.000 --> 1:34:26.679 of a lot of Chinese, a lot of Russians. Russia 1:34:26.760 --> 1:34:29.080 was you know, huge in the in the in that boom. 1:34:29.240 --> 1:34:31.400 So all these tariffs and stuff that we got, all 1:34:31.400 --> 1:34:33.720 this punitive stuff we have against Russia right now has 1:34:33.760 --> 1:34:35.000 got to be hurting that whole business. 1:34:35.600 --> 1:34:37.599 It's certainly. I mean just the fact that I mean 1:34:37.680 --> 1:34:39.760 they can go through China to buy stuff. You know, 1:34:39.760 --> 1:34:41.920 it's not that big a deal, but they just don't 1:34:41.920 --> 1:34:44.479 have any money, you know, the rank and file people, 1:34:44.640 --> 1:34:48.040 and you know the currency. You know, when we started 1:34:48.160 --> 1:34:50.800 really selling to the Russians, I think we were right 1:34:50.880 --> 1:34:54.679 at about eight or nine to one to the ruble, 1:34:54.960 --> 1:34:56.559 and you know, I think right now we're right at 1:34:56.600 --> 1:34:59.400 one hundred. So it makes it really difficult. You know, 1:34:59.479 --> 1:35:03.400 it's u almost ten times the price because their currency 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:05.800 is worth so much less. Even if we had never 1:35:05.920 --> 1:35:08.080 changed the price of the fur, so it would be 1:35:08.160 --> 1:35:10.400 it would cost them ten times as much just because 1:35:10.400 --> 1:35:13.040 their currency is dropped that much. So, I mean, when 1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:14.880 they invaded, I think it. I think I had a 1:35:14.880 --> 1:35:17.640 customer that had some money in Russia, some dollars. I 1:35:17.640 --> 1:35:20.320 think at one point he on the black market. He 1:35:20.360 --> 1:35:23.439 traded him at like one sixty or one seventy. You know, 1:35:23.479 --> 1:35:26.160 I mean it's just worthless, you know. So but it's 1:35:26.240 --> 1:35:28.120 kind of settled out around one hundred or so. 1:35:28.640 --> 1:35:31.439 Does your family still go out as grown wald for 1:35:31.680 --> 1:35:34.840 and buy for from people in parking lots and stuff. 1:35:34.960 --> 1:35:37.600 Absolutely, I still do it myself. I go all I 1:35:38.080 --> 1:35:41.439 do mostly Wisconsin. I've done Michigan most of my life. 1:35:41.479 --> 1:35:46.800 I did it this year up, I do Illinois. Yeah, 1:35:46.840 --> 1:35:50.080 I go in a truck. My brother does it. Bryce, 1:35:50.160 --> 1:35:52.240 the guy that I work with, does it. Terry does it. 1:35:52.400 --> 1:35:55.280 We we have my brother goes. He lives in Baltimore. 1:35:55.320 --> 1:35:59.120 He does the hole east coast New York state. Yeah, 1:35:59.120 --> 1:36:00.640 he used to live in Berlin. Used to sell a 1:36:00.680 --> 1:36:03.880 lot to Russia for US. But yeah, Gary buys all 1:36:03.960 --> 1:36:08.679 of the southeast and northeast and we go through Missouri. 1:36:08.880 --> 1:36:12.880 And then we have an office in Winnipeg too, And Bryce, 1:36:13.520 --> 1:36:15.439 guy that I work with, he runs that office and 1:36:15.479 --> 1:36:17.240 he buys all through Canada. 1:36:17.280 --> 1:36:17.760 How have. 1:36:19.720 --> 1:36:23.520 Like, how has the American trapper changed in your lifetime 1:36:23.880 --> 1:36:26.479 the guys that you were selling or buying from years 1:36:26.479 --> 1:36:29.920 ago versus like today and maybe what changes have you seen. 1:36:30.320 --> 1:36:34.240 Yeah, So we had a guy in our town, Forrest, 1:36:34.280 --> 1:36:36.960 and that trapped and he was one of the bigger 1:36:37.000 --> 1:36:39.479 trappers that we had caught probably, and back in the day, 1:36:39.520 --> 1:36:41.920 guys that were big trappers didn't catch what big trappers 1:36:41.960 --> 1:36:44.960 do today. They just didn't have the stuff that people 1:36:44.960 --> 1:36:47.120 have developed over the years to really make a trapper 1:36:47.160 --> 1:36:49.840 super efficient. Maybe he was a five hundred muskrat guy, 1:36:49.920 --> 1:36:51.679 you know, which was kind of big back in the day. 1:36:52.520 --> 1:36:55.600 And you know, my dad told me that, you know, 1:36:56.080 --> 1:36:58.840 he there was nobody in town besides my dad that 1:36:58.920 --> 1:37:01.439 knew that he even caught him. You know, he even 1:37:01.520 --> 1:37:03.240 hit his car, you know when he when he would 1:37:03.240 --> 1:37:05.840 go to the creeks and trap the muscles competition. Because 1:37:05.840 --> 1:37:08.720 of competition, he didn't want anybody to know. And they 1:37:08.720 --> 1:37:11.160 were very silly, big money. It was big money, and 1:37:11.200 --> 1:37:12.959 you know they could make you know, in the forties. 1:37:13.439 --> 1:37:16.559 You know, I don't know exactly all the ratios and everything, 1:37:16.640 --> 1:37:18.920 but you know, you know, trapping in a day, they 1:37:18.960 --> 1:37:21.960 can make a month's wages, or you know, trapping a week, 1:37:22.000 --> 1:37:24.479 they could make a year's wages sometimes, you know, especially 1:37:24.520 --> 1:37:26.280 if they knew how to catch mink as well. You know, 1:37:27.000 --> 1:37:28.840 they were you know, mink were like forty bucks back 1:37:28.880 --> 1:37:34.639 in the forties. So so yeah, and even the dealer side, 1:37:34.640 --> 1:37:36.519 like going on a show like this and telling even 1:37:36.560 --> 1:37:38.200 some of the stuff I've said today, you know, like 1:37:38.280 --> 1:37:40.280 we would never have uttered that stuff. 1:37:40.400 --> 1:37:44.000 Give me an example of what you wouldn't have said, like. 1:37:44.080 --> 1:37:46.680 Even what we used some of the tales for, you 1:37:46.720 --> 1:37:49.240 know where that I sell direct in China, where I 1:37:49.280 --> 1:37:52.000 sell I mean I would broadcast you know, the guys 1:37:52.040 --> 1:37:53.960 I'm partners with in China. I don't care. You know. 1:37:54.439 --> 1:37:57.880 Back then, Oh, you wouldn't tell one customer to anybody else. 1:37:58.439 --> 1:38:01.559 You hid tags if you had customers come to your place. 1:38:02.200 --> 1:38:04.960 You were so secretive. You would like if you went 1:38:05.040 --> 1:38:07.080 to you know, to to a big auction, you know, 1:38:07.200 --> 1:38:09.240 like one of NAFA's auctions or something. You know, you 1:38:09.240 --> 1:38:11.360 wouldn't talk to your customers. They wouldn't talk to you. 1:38:11.360 --> 1:38:13.920 You know, you kept it all. Everything was secret. Now 1:38:13.920 --> 1:38:16.280 we are secretive with basically nothing. We know. We don't 1:38:16.280 --> 1:38:16.639 even care. 1:38:17.120 --> 1:38:19.160 You know, did you like that era or not? 1:38:19.960 --> 1:38:23.200 It was It was definitely a more romantic era, you know, 1:38:23.640 --> 1:38:26.799 like you bought the skins. It was dominated by people 1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:30.920 that you know had uh, they had nerves of steale. 1:38:30.960 --> 1:38:34.040 I'll just say okay, and they would buy. They would 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:36.960 fight to buy, and then they would just use their sheer, 1:38:37.439 --> 1:38:39.719 you know, strength to try to get the most money 1:38:39.720 --> 1:38:41.400 for it, you know, to make a buck on it. 1:38:41.400 --> 1:38:44.280 They had low expenses and they just they were gamblers, 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:46.320 you know. That's that's who dominated the fur trade. My 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:48.680 dad was a you know, he was a you know, 1:38:48.840 --> 1:38:51.160 math genius, you know, and that's just the type of 1:38:51.200 --> 1:38:54.559 guy that really was successful, you know, back in the day. 1:38:55.000 --> 1:38:57.400 And that's not how we run our business at all anymore. 1:38:57.520 --> 1:39:01.120 It's nothing like that, but that was. It was definitely 1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:05.360 a wild and uh tumble business dominated by you know, 1:39:05.439 --> 1:39:06.600 really smart individuals. 1:39:07.240 --> 1:39:10.599 So you used to buy it math auctions, Yeah, we sure, 1:39:10.680 --> 1:39:11.160 sure we did. 1:39:11.240 --> 1:39:11.439 Yeah. 1:39:12.120 --> 1:39:13.639 Wonder if you bought any of my stuff. 1:39:15.000 --> 1:39:17.480 I had a couple of top top lot first. 1:39:17.280 --> 1:39:28.479 Wow, oh boy there, and that sure made a big 1:39:28.520 --> 1:39:30.439 deal out of it right in his place. 1:39:32.120 --> 1:39:36.160 Have you knowingly produced any famous firs that were worn 1:39:36.240 --> 1:39:38.360 by like a first lady or to a red carpet 1:39:38.439 --> 1:39:38.760 or anything. 1:39:39.240 --> 1:39:41.479 Yeah, we have. I mean, you know, the guy that 1:39:41.560 --> 1:39:44.160 made Joe Namas coat when he was on the Super Bowl, 1:39:44.240 --> 1:39:46.120 that was that was on my customers. I sold in 1:39:46.160 --> 1:39:46.719 those kyots. 1:39:46.960 --> 1:39:48.080 Seriously. Yeah, it's great. 1:39:48.160 --> 1:39:50.639 Yeah, and you know, it's hard to think of something 1:39:50.720 --> 1:39:53.360 right now. But you know, I mean back in the day, 1:39:53.360 --> 1:39:59.960 I've had Paris Hilton order from us. Uh what else. Yeah, 1:40:00.120 --> 1:40:02.920 we've had uh, we've had you know, lots of you know, 1:40:02.960 --> 1:40:04.360 we and we sell to the you know, all the 1:40:04.400 --> 1:40:06.760 major brands you know use our stuff or they have 1:40:06.840 --> 1:40:08.360 you know, some of them don't use for anymore. 1:40:08.360 --> 1:40:11.200 But yeah, you know you should get that photo of 1:40:11.280 --> 1:40:15.360 name it in that coat, get like a badge in 1:40:15.360 --> 1:40:15.880 your office. 1:40:15.960 --> 1:40:17.800 Right well, I think it's up somewhere. 1:40:17.520 --> 1:40:21.240 We could use to promote this podcast, right yeah, the 1:40:21.240 --> 1:40:23.240 man who sold the man who. 1:40:27.880 --> 1:40:31.559 Uh, this morning, the Dow Jones was down nine hundred points. 1:40:31.640 --> 1:40:34.719 Is that as far reaching as like changing your raccoon 1:40:34.760 --> 1:40:35.639 prices this week? 1:40:35.760 --> 1:40:38.479 Or No, It's not gonna change my prices today. Obviously 1:40:38.479 --> 1:40:41.480 I'm not buying any right now, but it is definitely 1:40:41.520 --> 1:40:45.479 something we watch. You know, the economy in China right 1:40:45.520 --> 1:40:49.360 now is rough. It's it's it's very poor. And you know, 1:40:49.520 --> 1:40:51.760 the stock market, you know, going up or down five 1:40:51.760 --> 1:40:56.400 percent in China is not really gonna make the economy 1:40:56.479 --> 1:40:59.000 that much worse. I mean, there are days where I 1:40:59.040 --> 1:41:01.559 have been you know a lot more upset when I 1:41:01.560 --> 1:41:03.880 saw the doal go down, you know, a thousand points, 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:07.800 but you know they're not. You know, it's it's not 1:41:07.880 --> 1:41:09.880 like we're selling one hundred million mank in China. We 1:41:09.960 --> 1:41:12.200 need to because the economy is just rocket because that 1:41:12.240 --> 1:41:14.360 was what was going on. I mean, the economy was 1:41:14.400 --> 1:41:18.080 on fire. You know, people bought a condo in in China. 1:41:18.200 --> 1:41:20.240 I mean, I had lots of customers. Let me tell 1:41:20.240 --> 1:41:22.400 you this is you know, this is not untrue at all. 1:41:22.439 --> 1:41:24.720 They bought their first condo for you know, seventy eight 1:41:24.760 --> 1:41:27.240 thousand bucks. You know, it was worth three hundred thousand bucks. 1:41:27.240 --> 1:41:29.280 A couple years later they bought their next one. You know, 1:41:29.320 --> 1:41:31.479 the next one was you know the five hundred, the million, 1:41:31.520 --> 1:41:34.320 the million two, the million eight, and you know everybody 1:41:34.360 --> 1:41:36.800 was doing that in China, and you know, everybody there 1:41:36.840 --> 1:41:39.000 was the wealth effect. Everybody was rich. Everybody was buying 1:41:39.000 --> 1:41:43.840 for coats and yeah, it was it was. It was huge. 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:46.439 So you know it's really not probably gonna have a 1:41:46.479 --> 1:41:47.920 ton of effect. But you know, we watch it if 1:41:47.960 --> 1:41:50.600 we have, you know, too much problems. You know, you know, 1:41:50.680 --> 1:41:53.479 the cats don't go there, the beaver don't go there. 1:41:54.640 --> 1:41:56.760 You know that the beaver is an American item kind 1:41:56.800 --> 1:41:58.639 of as far as the hats, you know, that would 1:41:58.640 --> 1:42:00.840 be something that you know, we worry about. You know, 1:42:01.040 --> 1:42:05.639 so if demand starts to deteriorate, it's it'll definitely affect 1:42:05.680 --> 1:42:09.080 the price. I mean, I'm on the I'm on the 1:42:09.120 --> 1:42:11.960 phone with China or Bryce Is you know every day, 1:42:12.040 --> 1:42:15.160 four or five times a day, you know, every morning 1:42:15.160 --> 1:42:16.960 we wake up with our we chats and you know, 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:19.519 we go over them and we talk to our customers. 1:42:19.520 --> 1:42:21.560 They give us a rundown of what they sold the 1:42:21.640 --> 1:42:24.120 night before from each each store, and then we go 1:42:24.160 --> 1:42:24.519 from there. 1:42:24.600 --> 1:42:29.280 No kid, Yeah, so, uh is fur gonna shine again? 1:42:29.720 --> 1:42:33.000 As they say in the Charltte has the movie The Mountain, Then. 1:42:33.360 --> 1:42:37.760 Yeah, I think I think the chance that we have 1:42:38.680 --> 1:42:43.360 is really with kind of this environmental consciousness that I 1:42:43.640 --> 1:42:46.040 really do. I think if we can hold out, you 1:42:46.040 --> 1:42:49.960 know for five years or something, I mean this maink thing, yeah, 1:42:50.000 --> 1:42:53.720 it'll it'll probably help us. But we've got a new 1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:56.840 generation of people that are not you know, they're they're 1:42:56.880 --> 1:43:00.439 conscious consumers, and uh, I think they're to you know, 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:02.120 look at what they're buying, and they're not just going 1:43:02.200 --> 1:43:03.920 to say, well that's a that's a dead animal. They're 1:43:03.960 --> 1:43:07.479 gonna say, you know, how environmentally friendly is that? And uh, 1:43:07.560 --> 1:43:09.439 I really do think they they will look at it. 1:43:09.479 --> 1:43:12.680 I mean, I I mentioned that I live part time 1:43:12.720 --> 1:43:14.759 in Madison, you know, and it's a very liberal city, 1:43:14.760 --> 1:43:16.880 you know. But I tell you, when you talk to 1:43:19.640 --> 1:43:22.920 you know, people in in that sort of scenario, you know, 1:43:22.960 --> 1:43:25.600 they're very understanding. You know, It's not like it's a 1:43:25.640 --> 1:43:27.960 hard sell to say, Hey, you know, why don't you 1:43:28.000 --> 1:43:30.360 buy something that you know it's not going to last 1:43:30.400 --> 1:43:32.400 for five hundred years in a landfill? You know, why 1:43:32.400 --> 1:43:34.680 don't you buy something that's not going to produce you know, 1:43:34.840 --> 1:43:38.280 any uh, you know any you know, residual effect after 1:43:38.360 --> 1:43:41.040 just a few years. And uh, those those they're they're 1:43:41.080 --> 1:43:41.679 really open. 1:43:41.520 --> 1:43:44.759 To that, like it's a renewable material. 1:43:44.920 --> 1:43:47.960 Sure. Sure, So I think, uh, I think we do 1:43:48.040 --> 1:43:50.479 have a chance with this generation. Cause, like I said, 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:53.280 you know, it's we're we're we're selling a coat right 1:43:53.320 --> 1:43:56.280 now that that has a rough on it, and we're 1:43:56.320 --> 1:43:58.479 not taking that tach you know, we're not trying to 1:43:58.479 --> 1:44:01.559 to sell it to you know, college girls that have 1:44:01.680 --> 1:44:06.280 really you know, uh, you know, real liberal bents or anything. 1:44:06.360 --> 1:44:08.559 But you know, certainly I don't think that would be 1:44:08.840 --> 1:44:11.120 a hard sell to do if you if you really 1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:14.360 wanted to take that task on, you know, you know, 1:44:14.360 --> 1:44:18.320 with all natural fibers, so including obviously including fur. So 1:44:18.400 --> 1:44:20.320 I think it has a chance. I think all natural 1:44:20.320 --> 1:44:23.880 fibers do. And uh, you know, as as consumers become 1:44:24.120 --> 1:44:27.519 more conscientious, they'll uh you know, we're you know, they'll 1:44:27.520 --> 1:44:29.479 they'll they'll they'll look at that, you know. I mean 1:44:29.800 --> 1:44:33.360 we all used to buy aerosols that depleted the ozone layer, 1:44:33.360 --> 1:44:34.960 and you know we all figured out a way to switch. 1:44:35.040 --> 1:44:38.920 So yeah, we'll see what happens. I think the fur 1:44:39.000 --> 1:44:42.120 business has to realize that you know that animal rights 1:44:42.120 --> 1:44:45.880 people and environmental people are are you know, different people. 1:44:46.000 --> 1:44:48.280 You know, it's not the same. Sure it's not. They're 1:44:48.320 --> 1:44:50.519 not the same. And you know, we have to think 1:44:50.560 --> 1:44:53.479 of ourselves as being part of this sort of cottage 1:44:53.520 --> 1:44:57.519 industry that's no no different than somebody raising vegetables on 1:44:57.560 --> 1:45:01.759 their farm. You know, we're super sustainable, you know, we're 1:45:02.400 --> 1:45:04.800 you know, I think I think that's the cell that 1:45:04.840 --> 1:45:05.200 we have. 1:45:05.600 --> 1:45:08.479 So and you guys will be out the grown walls, 1:45:08.640 --> 1:45:12.400 the grown balds, sure, grown walls, grown walls will be 1:45:12.439 --> 1:45:15.240 out buying furthest fall. We certainly will out of people, Uh, 1:45:15.280 --> 1:45:16.439 out of people find you guys. 1:45:17.280 --> 1:45:20.360 Yeah, that's that's interesting. Last week I was actually with 1:45:20.360 --> 1:45:23.840 the conservation officer and uh, I actually had a fish 1:45:23.920 --> 1:45:27.719 kill on my property that because of a environmental deal, 1:45:28.120 --> 1:45:35.080 but big cattle shit ended up being that. Yeah. But anyway, 1:45:35.320 --> 1:45:39.960 uh yeah big Yeah, we're sitting next to the creek. 1:45:40.080 --> 1:45:40.600 Yeah. 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:45.080 The conservation officer was asking me my name and I said, 1:45:45.120 --> 1:45:47.360 you know, he lives fourteen miles from where where our 1:45:47.360 --> 1:45:49.800 factory is. And I said to him, I said, but 1:45:49.920 --> 1:45:51.360 you know, you know who I am, right, you know? 1:45:52.000 --> 1:45:54.639 And uh he said no, you know And I said, well, 1:45:54.640 --> 1:45:56.120 he said, you know, we buy fer and he said yeah, 1:45:56.120 --> 1:45:56.679 he said, I thought. 1:45:56.840 --> 1:45:57.960 I thought I heard about. 1:45:57.680 --> 1:45:59.439 Something like that down in forest and you know, which 1:45:59.439 --> 1:46:03.840 is fourteen was away and he said, I trap and 1:46:03.880 --> 1:46:05.559 I was looking for a place to sell my stuff, 1:46:05.640 --> 1:46:07.160 you know. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You know, 1:46:07.200 --> 1:46:09.720 we are the biggest burbuyer in the world, you know, 1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:13.960 and you don't know, but that is a little bit 1:46:13.960 --> 1:46:14.320 of a problem. 1:46:14.320 --> 1:46:14.439 You know. 1:46:14.439 --> 1:46:17.280 Obviously, we have a website, we have you know, social media, 1:46:17.320 --> 1:46:19.000 and we are really big on social media. But you 1:46:19.080 --> 1:46:21.960 have trappers, and I mean it is not just the 1:46:22.000 --> 1:46:23.760 odd guy. I mean you have guys that come to 1:46:23.800 --> 1:46:25.680 the truck and they're just like Wow, you know, I 1:46:26.040 --> 1:46:28.240 can't believe you guys exist. You know, I started trapping 1:46:28.320 --> 1:46:30.479 during COVID. I wanted something to do, and you know, 1:46:30.520 --> 1:46:32.280 I just haven't had any place to sell my stuff 1:46:32.320 --> 1:46:35.000 for the past three years. And I've been tanning some 1:46:35.080 --> 1:46:37.800 but I've got skins hanging all over the garage. You know, 1:46:37.840 --> 1:46:40.479 my wife's sick of them. And you know, I finally, 1:46:40.560 --> 1:46:43.400 you know, found you guys. But it is really it's 1:46:43.479 --> 1:46:46.680 really kind of a trapping is kind of popular. I mean, 1:46:46.680 --> 1:46:48.719 if you want to, you know, you guys are whitetail hunters. 1:46:48.720 --> 1:46:50.839 If you want to hunt on somebody's property in the Midwest, 1:46:50.880 --> 1:46:53.000 maybe not so much out here. You know, you tell them, hey, 1:46:53.000 --> 1:46:55.280 I'll trap the raccoons or I'll trap the coyotes. You know, 1:46:55.439 --> 1:46:57.400 that's a way to get on their property, you know, 1:46:57.479 --> 1:46:59.120 to trap white tails. And that's what a lot of 1:46:59.120 --> 1:47:01.400 these guys do. And you know what to do with 1:47:01.439 --> 1:47:03.400 your skins. Well, there's there's there's a market for him. 1:47:03.640 --> 1:47:04.840 Yeah, give them sold man. 1:47:04.920 --> 1:47:05.560 Yeah. 1:47:05.680 --> 1:47:08.200 His website has the routes listed, I'm gonna find you 1:47:08.240 --> 1:47:11.320 this fall. Okay, traded a deer hide for some gloves, 1:47:11.320 --> 1:47:12.599 all right, all right, sounds good. 1:47:14.600 --> 1:47:15.599 Thanks for coming on the show. 1:47:15.640 --> 1:47:18.960 All right, all right, thank you very much. Gfw co 1:47:19.080 --> 1:47:22.080 o dot com. Do it real slow, g f w 1:47:22.439 --> 1:47:24.679 co dot com and people can go there to find 1:47:24.720 --> 1:47:28.879 your routes. Yeah. Yeah, they'll be posted sometime beginning of October, 1:47:29.000 --> 1:47:31.200 so we'll post them. We buy. We don't really buy 1:47:31.280 --> 1:47:33.160 routes in the West. You know, there's not enough people 1:47:33.200 --> 1:47:37.160 to run routes out here. But you know all of Wisconsin, 1:47:37.439 --> 1:47:45.760 you know, Illinois, Indiana, New York, uh, Nebraska, Missouri, all 1:47:45.920 --> 1:47:48.280 the whole South, the whole all the states in the southeast, 1:47:48.280 --> 1:47:51.320 North Carolina, South Carolina. You know, we cover the whole 1:47:51.360 --> 1:47:54.120 Midwest and the East coast. So so all you. 1:47:54.040 --> 1:47:56.519 Guys doing raccoon control on your place because you're trying 1:47:56.520 --> 1:47:59.200 to help turkey numbers or would duck numbers. Yeah, do 1:47:59.240 --> 1:48:01.920 it in the winter, right during the winter, and call up, 1:48:02.080 --> 1:48:03.720 call the Gronwald family and. 1:48:03.720 --> 1:48:04.559 Get down the route. 1:48:04.920 --> 1:48:06.600 You're gonna get bombarded. 1:48:06.200 --> 1:48:09.960 Now, right, I hope. So thanks for having me on 1:48:09.960 --> 1:48:10.559 the show too, man. 1:48:10.560 --> 1:48:12.720 I appreciate that's great, very educational. 1:48:12.880 --> 1:48:14.080 Thanks man, I appreciate it. 1:48:19.200 --> 1:48:28.000 Run the rabbit stuff, rum num rabbits, then. 1:48:28.439 --> 1:48:29.679 Buster's and lead. 1:48:30.560 --> 1:48:36.000 He showing off that speed. Run the rabbit stuff. 1:48:40.120 --> 1:48:51.080 Through the thorns, through the thorns, and Ma, she's close behind. 1:48:51.040 --> 1:48:52.360 Now with one thing on. 1:48:53.960 --> 1:48:55.960 Through the thorns. 1:49:01.040 --> 1:49:12.160 Run and rabstann run rabbits down Skeeter's and packed new. 1:49:12.240 --> 1:49:13.800 There ain't no turn back. 1:49:14.920 --> 1:49:17.840 Brown the rabbit stown. 1:49:24.200 --> 1:49:31.639 Crawls the chili m h crawls, chili creep. 1:49:33.240 --> 1:49:39.920 Spanky's in the ear, that old rabbit strawn everything crawls chili. 1:49:44.520 --> 1:49:47.200 So run the rabbit. 1:49:47.000 --> 1:49:56.679 Style, run the rabbits down shot down to the shorer Niles. 1:49:56.920 --> 1:50:02.519 Race on the rabbit starn. 1:50:12.280 --> 1:50:26.720 Choorley's looking Choorley's looking home. He ran his last races home. 1:50:26.720 --> 1:50:35.320 To a better places, and he says, run and rabbit 1:50:37.760 --> 1:50:40.120 Down h