Speaker 1: Welcome to couples Counseling with Chelsea hand job where we.
Speaker 2: Do couples counseling on all sorts of variations of friends, lovers, families.
Speaker 1: Welcome to my office. Hi Catherine, how are you? Hi Chelsea.
Speaker 3: I want to jump right in with our callers today,
Speaker 3: which are Rachel and Leah. Rachel is the one writing
Speaker 3: in and she says to dear Chelsea, I could really
Speaker 3: use some advice. About two months ago, I met a
Speaker 3: woman at a party and we fell hard for each other.
Speaker 3: It turns out she is polyamorous and married with a child.
Speaker 3: She's thirty six and I'm twenty eight. Traditionally I'd never
Speaker 3: go for someone who was in a situation like this,
Speaker 3: but I couldn't help myself. We have such a deep
Speaker 3: connection and she makes me so happy. She's also a rabbi,
Speaker 3: which is so meaningful to me because I'm Jewish. The
Speaker 3: thing is, she isn't out as polyamorous to her congregation,
Speaker 3: so we could never go public. Also, my boss happens
Speaker 3: to be in her congregation. Super weird coincidence. Additionally, I'm
Speaker 3: not one hundred percent on board with calling a woman
Speaker 3: with a husband and child my girlfriend let's call her
Speaker 3: Lee for these purposes. I was at her house earlier
Speaker 3: this week and had to leave because her husband was
Speaker 3: coming home and I couldn't fathom meeting him. I fear
Speaker 3: that if I were to meet him, I would feel
Speaker 3: really sad and ultimately freak out and break things off
Speaker 3: with Leah or fall in love with him too. It
Speaker 3: just seems potentially messy. Dating people who are unavailable is
Speaker 3: typically my pattern, and I recognize that Leah falls into
Speaker 3: the category of people who are unavailable. I'm at the
Speaker 3: point where I want to date other people, but I
Speaker 3: still want to date Leah. I'm scared of getting hurt,
Speaker 3: but I don't want to let go of my connection
Speaker 3: with her. How do I go about this without hurting
Speaker 3: my heart and still having fun? Thank you so much?
Speaker 4: Rachel, Hi, Rachel and Leah, Hi, Chelsea and Catherine, Hi,
Speaker 4: Hi you guys.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's recap.
Speaker 2: Rachel, you're polyamorous, No, that would be cool.
Speaker 1: Leah's polyamorous.
Speaker 2: Leah, you're polyamorous and you're a rabbi.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: And your husband knows you're polyamorous, obviously he is too. Okay, wonderful, great,
Speaker 2: But you're just not to your congregation, right, and then Rachel,
Speaker 2: so you're not polyamorous, but now you're looking to be
Speaker 2: polyamorous because you want to date Leah and other people, right.
Speaker 5: I mean, I yeah, yeah, I guess I am at
Speaker 5: that point.
Speaker 4: I want I can't. I can't found them not dating Leah.
Speaker 4: But I'm also.
Speaker 5: Trying to find my person as a monogamous person.
Speaker 4: So I guess I'm here trying to figure out where
Speaker 4: I can go from here, and I'm really struggling with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine. How How did you guys meet
Speaker 2: at temple?
Speaker 6: That was crazy? Know, we met at the party. It
Speaker 6: was a really cute party just for women.
Speaker 1: Huh.
Speaker 6: Rachel rhinestoned my face and we smoked a joint together
Speaker 6: and it was really cute.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I need to go to your synagogue because
Speaker 2: it sounds pretty modern.
Speaker 5: No, that wasn't a synagogue.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 6: I'm at the synagogue, Paarl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a polyamorous you're smoking pot like all of
Speaker 2: these things are lining up.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: And Rachel, are you are you both bisexual or Rachel
Speaker 2: are you a lesbian?
Speaker 5: I'm bisexual?
Speaker 2: You're bisexual? Okay, so you're looking for your partner, whether
Speaker 2: that be a man or woman. Right, Okay, great, well
Speaker 2: this is very interesting you guys.
Speaker 1: I like this. This is multi layered.
Speaker 2: I mean, Rachel, I would never say, like I think
Speaker 2: with someone like Leah who's a rabbi and who do
Speaker 2: you go to her congregation?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 6: No, okay, I would never date someone in my congregation.
Speaker 1: For the rest Okay, okay, copy that. Copy that. I
Speaker 1: think you know what the rules are.
Speaker 2: So it's a very good experiment for you, and you
Speaker 2: should look at it as such, like I understand there
Speaker 2: are emotions involved and feelings involved, and you haven't necessarily
Speaker 2: been in this kind of dynamic before.
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Right, So I think this is a huge opportunity for you,
Speaker 2: Like it'stunity to learn and grow. You and Leah can
Speaker 2: have this relationship that you have with the understanding. You
Speaker 2: have all the information, so it's not like you're getting
Speaker 2: you know, like all of a sudden you're finding out,
Speaker 2: you know, you're six months in you're in love with
Speaker 2: someone and you find out, oh my god, they're married
Speaker 2: this and that. No, you have all the information here
Speaker 2: to protect your emotions. So it's up to you to
Speaker 2: kind of do that job and say, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: never going to amount to a marriage or you know a.
Speaker 1: Person like a primary partner.
Speaker 2: You're a primary partner, right, this is going to amount
Speaker 2: to It could be a huge growing and learning experience
Speaker 2: for you, which I think it will be. And no
Speaker 2: one's being dishonest. So that's the biggest advantage so far,
Speaker 2: is that all the honesty's out on the table, and
Speaker 2: you're also person looking for your person, and while you
Speaker 2: have Leah in your life, like, that's not going to
Speaker 2: prevent you from looking that person. If you do, you
Speaker 2: feel like you have fallen in love with Leah already.
Speaker 4: I really love her, and I definitely think that we're
Speaker 4: on that track. Yeah, I guess I'm finding it difficult
Speaker 4: to be emotionally available to other people while I have
Speaker 4: all of this love and time and energy that I'm
Speaker 4: spilling into someone who ultimately could never be my primary partner.
Speaker 2: Okay, So does that make you think maybe you shouldn't
Speaker 2: be involved with Lee at all?
Speaker 1: Like you can't handle both of those things?
Speaker 4: No, No, I want to figure out and work on
Speaker 4: ways where I can't handle both of those things, because
Speaker 4: I do love her so much. And I don't ever
Speaker 4: want to not be romantically involved with her.
Speaker 3: I feel like this is sort of a follow your
Speaker 3: bliss moment, Like I know you want to find your
Speaker 3: primary partner. I know you want to find like the one,
Speaker 3: but right now, maybe it's okay to just let this
Speaker 3: be what it is and not try to put all
Speaker 3: your energy into places. Right we can't serve two masters.
Speaker 3: I think there's something about that, maybe somewhere in the
Speaker 3: oh uh, that's New Testament, never mind, But maybe right
Speaker 3: now you're just like having this really wonderful experience and
Speaker 3: let it be what it is and when and if
Speaker 3: you feel like that needs to change and you need
Speaker 3: to find another partner, then like then you move toward that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are your major concerns? You're concerned about? Protecting
Speaker 2: your emotions? Is that your number one? Like yeah, fear? Yeah, okay, Well,
Speaker 2: when you have the truth right before you, it's your decision. Like,
Speaker 2: there's nothing here that's not protecting your emotions, is what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Everything is set up to protect your emotions
Speaker 2: because you know what the situation is, so like you
Speaker 2: have such a huge advantage. It's not like you're finding
Speaker 2: out it's not like, you know you're being blindsided. You
Speaker 2: know what you're getting into, And it's okay to fall
Speaker 2: in love with someone that's on able in a polyamorous situation,
Speaker 2: that's okay because you're also going to fall in love
Speaker 2: with other people in your life. And just because you're
Speaker 2: in love with this person doesn't prevent you from falling
Speaker 2: in love. That's like an idea that we put in
Speaker 2: our minds.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not.
Speaker 2: Living together and also seeking someone out, you know that
Speaker 2: would be something else. It's not like, oh, I have
Speaker 2: a whole life with but I'm still trying to meet
Speaker 2: someone else. You She has a whole life separate from you.
Speaker 2: She has a husband, she and I'm assuming she has
Speaker 2: a family too. Do you have children, Leah?
Speaker 1: I have a Kaid.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So there you have it. How integrated is
Speaker 2: she allowed to?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 2: How do you and your husband have your relationship set
Speaker 2: up with like your other partners and your other lovers? Like,
Speaker 2: how integrated can Rachel become in your life?
Speaker 5: He is down to meet her.
Speaker 6: I think my best case scenario one day, if I
Speaker 6: could get my wildest fantasy would be that she becomes like,
Speaker 6: you know, a close family friend, like, that's how it
Speaker 6: feels for everyone in my family except for for me,
Speaker 6: obviously it's beyond that, but as she does not want
Speaker 6: to meet him yet, or a slash maybe at all,
Speaker 6: which I totally understand and respect. Honestly like it when
Speaker 6: you identify as polyamorous, it is sometimes like an initial
Speaker 6: challenge or like emotionally slightly complicated to meet a partner's
Speaker 6: other partner. And then if you like don't even identify
Speaker 6: as Polly, like, oh my gosh, that must be I
Speaker 6: don't even know.
Speaker 5: I don't know how you're doing it, Rachel.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, right, it would be. But I wouldn't
Speaker 2: put a never on anything. You know, like, you don't
Speaker 2: want to meet him now, fine that you don't have to,
Speaker 2: But down the road you might change your mind.
Speaker 1: You probably will, and you probably will.
Speaker 2: Depending on your own situation and what happens with your
Speaker 2: situation and who you end up seeing and dating. And
Speaker 2: I wouldn't put a pin in any of that either.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't be so aggressively in any direction. I
Speaker 2: would say to Rachel, just like, let enjoy what's happening.
Speaker 2: Enjoy relationship with Leah. It's not a secret that's a
Speaker 2: lifestyle that she's chosen and might be a lifestyle that
Speaker 2: you choose also. Or you might meet someone and then decide, oh,
Speaker 2: this isn't the way that or they might not be
Speaker 2: okay with it, they don't want you to have another lover,
Speaker 2: and then maybe that time will come in you'll have
Speaker 2: to make that decision. But I wouldn't put so much
Speaker 2: pressure on protecting your emotions. You have all the information
Speaker 2: that is your protection, and you should look at it
Speaker 2: as like a power, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, think of that, like no one's lying to you.
Speaker 2: So right there, you're in a powerful position to choose
Speaker 2: what you're willing, what you want. You know, do you
Speaker 2: want this? Can you handle her being with a husband?
Speaker 2: Can you handle that?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 2: What do you think when you think about that in
Speaker 2: the long term of things, Say, you guys, do fall
Speaker 2: madly in love and she is still married? How does that?
Speaker 2: How do you see that playing out? What do you
Speaker 2: think of that? Do you think that's something that you
Speaker 2: can handle right now?
Speaker 5: Absolutely? Not in the future, potentially.
Speaker 4: I just I think of her and her husband, and
Speaker 4: I like, I freak out. I get so sad, I
Speaker 4: get so sad and I think in my head, Wow,
Speaker 4: Leah is giving her.
Speaker 5: Love to someone who is not me, and that fucking sucks.
Speaker 2: Right Well, that makes that makes it sound like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you might not be able to handle that situation because
Speaker 2: you are going to be too jealous and and and
Speaker 2: you know, and that means you're probably not polyamorous.
Speaker 1: What thoughts have you given to being polyamorous.
Speaker 4: I've never thought about being polyamorous until I started dating
Speaker 4: Lea two months ago, so or I guess three months
Speaker 4: ago now. And I've been on a few dates with
Speaker 4: people since and a defining factor now And I haven't
Speaker 4: really talked to you about this before, Leah, but it's
Speaker 4: you know, is someone would someone be down with me
Speaker 4: having a girlfriend or dating someone else, or you know,
Speaker 4: would that person be open to polyamory with this specific person.
Speaker 5: Who I really love.
Speaker 4: I'm not closing off any options, And like you said, Chelsea,
Speaker 4: I'm focusing on staying.
Speaker 5: In the moment and staying present and being present.
Speaker 4: Because anytime I go and I spiral and my emotions
Speaker 4: get the most of me, I have to check back
Speaker 4: in with myself, take a few breaths, and remind myself
Speaker 4: this is it's practicing being in the moment.
Speaker 5: It's practicing being here.
Speaker 4: Now, because when I'm here now and I check in
Speaker 4: with myself, I'm like, everything's great, I am really happy,
Speaker 4: and I'm with someone who makes me really happy, and
Speaker 4: everything's gonna be fine.
Speaker 5: So I think that if I continue to check back in.
Speaker 4: With myself and remind myself that I'm okay, then it's
Speaker 4: going to be okay down the line, because I've come
Speaker 4: to terms in many ways that we will never, you know,
Speaker 4: get married or have children together, and Leo will never
Speaker 4: be my primary partner.
Speaker 3: I think one of the things you should take from
Speaker 3: this call is that it's okay to let yourself enjoy
Speaker 3: this for what it is right now, and checking in
Speaker 3: with yourself is the best way to do that, and
Speaker 3: like making sure that that's still the loudest voice. And
Speaker 3: then when there is a louder voice about like it's
Speaker 3: time to move on or it's time to find like
Speaker 3: a monogamous relationship, when and if that time comes, once
Speaker 3: that is louder, then you know it's time to make
Speaker 3: a change. But I think you're okay to like let
Speaker 3: yourself enjoy this for a while because you both seem
Speaker 3: really happy and glowy and you're in the throes of things,
Speaker 3: and I think you'll know when and if it's time
Speaker 3: to move on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think you answered everything I was asking, Rachel.
Speaker 2: I think you really are enjoying yourself, being present, being
Speaker 2: in the moment when it becomes if, if it becomes
Speaker 2: emotionally tumultuous for you, then yes, then that's a time
Speaker 2: where you have to go, Okay, maybe I need a
Speaker 2: time out, or maybe I need to break this off,
Speaker 2: but I would say just go for it right now.
Speaker 2: It's a huge, like expansive experience that you're having with someone.
Speaker 1: It's been a couple months. Have fun, enjoy it.
Speaker 2: You know what the rules are, play the game and
Speaker 2: enjoy yourself and just take it one step at a
Speaker 2: time and be mindful of where your head is at,
Speaker 2: you know, and if it becomes too overwhelming for you,
Speaker 2: make sure that you're checking in with that too, and
Speaker 2: then that's fine, and I'm sure Lea will be respectful
Speaker 2: of that if and when that does happen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 4: That is the way to go about it, because this
Speaker 4: is so special and I don't want to give up
Speaker 4: on this or leave this. I would like to continue
Speaker 4: to check in with myself and see where this can go.
Speaker 6: My dream is to be her bridesmaid one day.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, I'm very excited about the possibilities and the
Speaker 2: outcome of this and where this goes. I mean, in
Speaker 2: a perfect world, you'll find a partner, they'll be polyamorous,
Speaker 2: you'll all be polyamorous, and you can live a happily
Speaker 2: ever after life with just like two partners each of you,
Speaker 2: and then like great, then we're really evolving.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, Okay, all right, keep us posted. Okay,
Speaker 1: take care of you too.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Catherine, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Bye, do do do do drum roll, Catherine, please, Chelsea
Speaker 2: Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour. So I'm coming
Speaker 2: to obviously find a husband abroad. I need to get
Speaker 2: the health out of this fucking country. And it's not
Speaker 2: as easy as you think. So I'm coming to Rekkuvik,
Speaker 2: I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to the UK. I'm
Speaker 2: coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast.
Speaker 1: In May and June.
Speaker 2: I'm coming to Oslo, Stockholm, to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow,
Speaker 2: New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin,
Speaker 2: Barcelona and Lisbon. I'm coming abroad is abroad.
Speaker 1: That sounds like fun. I'm going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2: I know I want to go see me abroad and
Speaker 2: there all be They're all.
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