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Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power Collie

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Vallet and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with

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Speaker 1: Emily Jay i'm em only changing in San Francisco, and

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Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the next hour.

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Speaker 1: Russia calling Facebook and Instagram extremist and asking the court

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Speaker 1: to ban them. How Meta is responding Plus up Work

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Speaker 1: along with many other companies, halting their operations in Russia,

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Speaker 1: but now facing backlash for the Russian gig workers getting

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Speaker 1: caught in the crossfire. Ukraine's top diplomat, meantime, pushing back

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Speaker 1: on the suggestion of quote positive movement in talks with

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Speaker 1: Russia as they were described by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dimitro Kuliba, speaking exclusively with our very

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Speaker 1: own and Marie Hordern, there was zero progress in talks.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard for me to understand what kind of

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Speaker 1: progress President put In, his referring to the Russian army

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Speaker 1: is still in Ukraine. They stay continued destroying our killing

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Speaker 1: our children's civilians. And it speaks for one fact only

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Speaker 1: that even if we continued talking with Russia, that does

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Speaker 1: not have an impact on the behavior of Russian army

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Speaker 1: on the ground cool, but also saying ongoing talks aren't

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Speaker 1: impacting Russia's behavior on the ground, adding that a meeting

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Speaker 1: between Putin and Ukraine's president would be helpful. Blueber Josh

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Speaker 1: wind Grove joins US now from the White House. Josh

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Speaker 1: President Biden earlier saying the U S would defend every

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Speaker 1: inch of NATO territory, even if it meant world War three,

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Speaker 1: but not a single age of Ukraine. Where does this

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Speaker 1: leave Ukraine? That's right. He was speaking to democrats Emily

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Speaker 1: at a gathering in philadelph And of course there's been calls, pressures,

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Speaker 1: questions about whether the U S could do more, donate planes,

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Speaker 1: even set up a no fly zone, and he said, look,

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Speaker 1: we're going to defend every inch of native countries. Of

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Speaker 1: course Ukraine not one of those. But we're not And

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Speaker 1: even if that means world War three, as you said,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to go to defend every interview Kraine

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Speaker 1: because doing that, giving them offensive weapons, tanks, planes, that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, in Joe Biden's view, would trigger this

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Speaker 1: sort of world War three scenario. So pretty start warning

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Speaker 1: and a bit of pushback from him on these sort

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Speaker 1: of long simmering calls we've seen for either planes to

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Speaker 1: be given directly or the setting up of that no

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Speaker 1: fly zone, and so where that leaves him. Of course,

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Speaker 1: he was speaking after announcing a new tronch of of measures.

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Speaker 1: The G seven and other countries are moving to revoke

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Speaker 1: the most Favored Nation trading status of Russia. That's a

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Speaker 1: big moves, sort of a broad brush move that would

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Speaker 1: allow them to really hike tariffs across the board on

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Speaker 1: stuff they're still importing. And he went a step farther

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Speaker 1: by just saying they're not gonna import some stuff at all,

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Speaker 1: including a Steve who the caviare diamonds, UH and other

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Speaker 1: goods like Russian made vodkas. A bit of a symbolic

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Speaker 1: strike there. So you continuing to sort of steadily ratchet

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Speaker 1: up sanctions, and even just an hour ago, Emily, we

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Speaker 1: got new new UH specific sanctions on people individuals, including

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Speaker 1: the family of President Putin's spokesperson from the Treasury Department here,

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Speaker 1: So you can see, tick by tick they're trying to

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Speaker 1: increase the pressure, but it's still again using sort of

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Speaker 1: economic sanctions, not not ratching anything up on the military side.

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Speaker 1: So look what kind of pain, additional pain is this

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Speaker 1: going to inflict on Russia? And is this really going

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Speaker 1: to be what Ukraine needs when the war, the attacks

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Speaker 1: of Embardment shows no sign of showing slowing down. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a great question. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna find a lot of people predicting that the

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Speaker 1: end is near. You know, the end, the end of

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Speaker 1: this conflict is near. Of course, people hope for that.

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Speaker 1: Markets seemed to react to President Putin's comments, as you

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Speaker 1: heard from Ukraine's foreign minister, they didn't think there was

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Speaker 1: any progress at all. But Biden has been bragging about

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Speaker 1: the impact so far. He's saying the ruble is something

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Speaker 1: like two rubles for one U s dollar. He predicted

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Speaker 1: that if and when the Russian stock market ever does reopen,

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Speaker 1: of course has been close for some time now, that

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Speaker 1: it would simply crash collapse, is what President Biden predicted today.

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Speaker 1: So they think they're having impact, they think they're making progress,

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Speaker 1: But you know, there I think they would say that

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Speaker 1: they don't have a ton of great options. And perhaps

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Speaker 1: you can hear over the microphone. I'm here at the

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Speaker 1: White House, of course, and there is a protest going

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Speaker 1: on out here, uh, signifying the pressure Joe Biden is on,

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Speaker 1: calling on him to do more to help the people

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Speaker 1: of Ukraine. Meantime, the polls are showing that most Americans

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Speaker 1: do support the ban on Russian oil. But here in California, Josh,

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing five six, even seven dollars at the pump.

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Speaker 1: President Biden's trying to get US oil producers to make more,

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Speaker 1: but they are wary, of course, given the history here.

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Speaker 1: Is he going to be able to do that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're not a lot of sign a bit. A lot

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Speaker 1: of those producers have been scraping by for many years

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Speaker 1: or or worse. You know, they're saying they're finally in

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Speaker 1: a really profitable environment, and they make decisions several months

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Speaker 1: out and they say they don't know what the profitability

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Speaker 1: is gonna look like five six, seven, twelve months down

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Speaker 1: the road. And our colleagues including Jennifer de Louie and

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Speaker 1: Jordan Fabian have a great piece on the terminal today.

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Speaker 1: But Biden sort of icy history with the oil sector.

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Speaker 1: It's not a BFF situation to say the least. And

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Speaker 1: now he's crawling over to them for help, to try

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Speaker 1: to give them to lower prices and he's not getting

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. So no, we're not looking like

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Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot of relief soon. Part

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Speaker 1: of that it's because US production remains pretty high. It's

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Speaker 1: just a global production is struggling to meet the mark

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Speaker 1: here with of course Russian oil being removed in part

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Speaker 1: or potentially you know, in full in some countries from

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Speaker 1: the from the supply chain. All right, Josh Wingrow for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg at the White House. Josh, thank you for all

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Speaker 1: of those updates. Meantime, according to inter Facts, Russian prosecutors

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Speaker 1: have asked a court to ban metas Facebook and Instagram

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Speaker 1: as extremist. This is the latest move and a growing

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Speaker 1: crackdown on social networks as a digital iron curtain falls

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Speaker 1: across the country. Are Kurt Wagner, who covers Meta for US,

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Speaker 1: joining us now with more. So let's back up a

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Speaker 1: little here, because Meta was in some hot water yesterday

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Speaker 1: for relaxing a policy on violence on the platform, just

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Speaker 1: for Ukraine. Talk to us about that and how that unfolded. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so Facebook or Meta has rules around you know, threatening violence, right,

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Speaker 1: wishing violence upon another person, But they said that they're

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Speaker 1: going to relax those rules specifically for Ukraine, so that

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Speaker 1: Ukrainians can you know, post freely about defending their country. Right,

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Speaker 1: and if they say something about, hey, we want to

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Speaker 1: you know, kill these Russian soldiers who are coming into

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Speaker 1: our city, that would be the kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: you know against Facebook's existing policies might get taken down,

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Speaker 1: and so they want to be able to kind of

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Speaker 1: leave that stuff up kind of in a self defense

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Speaker 1: type of thing. Um. But of course you can imagine

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Speaker 1: this kind of got very murky very quickly, right, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were wondering, well, where do you

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Speaker 1: drug line? Nick Clegg from Facebook came out and said,

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Speaker 1: it's just in Ukraine. It's just a temporary thing, and

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Speaker 1: it does not apply to threats against Russian citizens. It's

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Speaker 1: only something that Ukrainians could say against, you know, for example,

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Speaker 1: the Russian army and so um. That is one of

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Speaker 1: the things that sparked Russian regulators to then say we

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Speaker 1: want Facebook and Instagram to be blocked in the country.

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Speaker 1: So again Russia calling on authorities in Russia to stop

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Speaker 1: the quote unquote extremist activities of Meta take measures to

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Speaker 1: bring the perpetrators, as they call it, to justice. They're

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Speaker 1: pitting two nations against each other. That's what they're accusing

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Speaker 1: Meta of here, and Nick Clegg saying, the fact is,

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Speaker 1: if we applied our standard content policies without any adjustments,

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Speaker 1: we would now be removing content from ordinary Ukrainians expressing

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Speaker 1: their resistance and fury at the invading military forces, which

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Speaker 1: would rightly be viewed as unacceptable. Kurt, what do you

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Speaker 1: make of Meta's changing the rules here temporarily? They say

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Speaker 1: it is quite unprecedented, isn't it? I mean, this whole

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Speaker 1: situation is pretty unprecedented, right, And and the fact that

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Speaker 1: they're kind of willing to review these in real time,

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Speaker 1: to review these, uh for a temporary amount of time,

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Speaker 1: I think it's actually probably a good thing, right. It's

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Speaker 1: it's showing that the company is being responsive to the

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Speaker 1: actual happenings on the ground. Now. Is it a perfect situation,

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. But I think it would be worse if

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Speaker 1: they were just simply sitting back and not being willing

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Speaker 1: to acknowledge that this is not just a regular week, right,

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Speaker 1: This is a war happening in Europe and they're trying

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Speaker 1: to adapt on the fly. So I view this actually

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Speaker 1: is as progress for Meta now sitting aside. Whether you

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Speaker 1: think they should be changing the policy or not. I

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Speaker 1: just think the fact that they're trying to be adaptive

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Speaker 1: is probably a good thing for future issues as well. Now,

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Speaker 1: where does the Facebook stand in Russia now? Is it available?

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Speaker 1: Is it not available? Yeah, Facebook, the core social network

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Speaker 1: has been blocked in Russia for about a week now,

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Speaker 1: and what we've heard from Russian regulators today was that

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Speaker 1: they're planning to block Instagram starting Monday as well, So

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Speaker 1: that would be obviously two of the three services. What's

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Speaker 1: App is also available in Russia as far as I know,

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Speaker 1: will continue to be um. But we have seen now

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Speaker 1: Facebook also take a stricter stance. They've said they're not

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Speaker 1: going to accept add money from Russian advertisers or Russian businesses. Right,

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Speaker 1: so this is becoming a very um dramatic split between

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Speaker 1: Russia and Meta and it makes me wonder is this

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Speaker 1: something that that they're going to be able to come

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Speaker 1: back together at some point after this war is over,

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Speaker 1: or is this kind of thing where, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: this is the the end of Russia and Facebook and

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Speaker 1: Instagram operating in Russia. I don't know, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's not out of the question. Interesting well, of course

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Speaker 1: Facebook has been banned in China's two thousand and eight uh.

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Speaker 1: Interesting implications here for what happens after the war, hopefully

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Speaker 1: there is and after, and how how Facebook will continue

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Speaker 1: to reevaluate its own rules. Kurt Wagner for US, thank

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Speaker 1: you for that update. Coming up as more companies leave Russia,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk to the CEO of Upward, Hayden Brown,

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Speaker 1: about their decision to cut off gig workers in Russia

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Speaker 1: and Belarus and how they're helping freelancers trapped still in Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. With the war in Ukraine raging, many

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Speaker 1: tech companies have been taking a stand by shutting down

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Speaker 1: their operations in Russia in a bid today instance, themselves

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Speaker 1: from the invader and send a message to Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 1: One such company's up Work, which decided to suspend their

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Speaker 1: business operations in Russa and Belarus. I want to bring

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Speaker 1: in CEO Haiden Brown for a deep dive on this

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Speaker 1: and Hayden, this was a rather controversial move because it

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Speaker 1: means cutting off gig workers in these countries who may

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with this war, may not support

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Speaker 1: this war. Why did you decide to do this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: first and foremost, our hearts go out to everyone in

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Speaker 1: Ukraine and everyone in Russian Belarus who's impacted by this conflict.

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Speaker 1: This was such a tough decision for us because it

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Speaker 1: really cuts the heart of our business and our heritage

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Speaker 1: in the region, which goes back to the founding days

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Speaker 1: of our business. But for us, the decision was informed

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Speaker 1: by both the geopolitical reality um as well as operational

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Speaker 1: realities on the ground. You know, as we've seen the

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Speaker 1: sanctions unfolding and payments partners of ours that we depend

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Speaker 1: on to pay talent in the region pulling out of

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Speaker 1: those markets. It has become operationally extremely challenging for us

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Speaker 1: to continue to deliver on our mission and our brand

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Speaker 1: promise to customers in the region. And so with those

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Speaker 1: realities unfolding, it was clear to us what the right

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Speaker 1: call was here, even though it has been incredibly painful

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Speaker 1: for us, because our goal is to serve these customers

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Speaker 1: in every way possible, and so this was a tough one,

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Speaker 1: but we knew what the right decision was. Do you

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Speaker 1: sympathize with the people in Russia and Belarus who may

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Speaker 1: not want anything to do with this war, but who

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Speaker 1: have a lot whose lives have been upended and livelihoods

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Speaker 1: have been cut off as a result. Absolutely, Emily, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think they and we find ourselves in a position

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Speaker 1: And I think Putin has set off this chain reaction

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Speaker 1: of events that all of us are grappling with UH

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Speaker 1: and it breaks our hearts. So what we've been focused

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Speaker 1: on is, you know, number one, working around the clock

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Speaker 1: to ensure our team members in the region are looked after,

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Speaker 1: to ensure our customers know that things like their profiles,

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Speaker 1: all of the work they've put into building their reputations

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Speaker 1: online are safe and secure and will be there when

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Speaker 1: and if we can resume operations in the region, and

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Speaker 1: or if they end up relocating themselves and able to

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Speaker 1: work in one of the other hundred eighty countries around

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Speaker 1: the world where we are operational, that they can come

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Speaker 1: online and continue working and not be impacted by this.

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Speaker 1: So absolutely we have been thinking of no one else

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Speaker 1: but our customers and how we can serve them through this.

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Speaker 1: But we are impacted by this crisis as are they,

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Speaker 1: and had to make this very difficult choice. What about

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Speaker 1: your workers in Ukraine. I know you're working to support them.

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Speaker 1: How are you handling that? What the biggest challenges you're

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Speaker 1: facing there. Yeah, So we launched a feature recently which

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Speaker 1: anyone in the world can use to send money to

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Speaker 1: workers in Ukraine UM just as fee free, basically sending

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Speaker 1: UM buying a project from them and waiving the requirement

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Speaker 1: that they actually deliver on the project. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like the Airbnb booking a home feature, So we launched that.

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Speaker 1: We've been messaging to our talent in the region that

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Speaker 1: their reputation scores and their profiles are safe and looked after,

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Speaker 1: so they won't be negatively impacted by disruptions that they

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Speaker 1: may be experiencing in their abilities to work. Uh, and

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Speaker 1: we're working on a number of other things that are

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Speaker 1: specifically targeting their safety well being, you know, check ins

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Speaker 1: that they can be doing with their clients outside of

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Speaker 1: the region, as well as ourselves donating a million dollars

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Speaker 1: this week to Direct Relief International for humanitarian support. So

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Speaker 1: we've been doing a number of things to make sure

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Speaker 1: that they feel supported and safe as much as we

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Speaker 1: can in terms of their ability to continue working online

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Speaker 1: when and if they can continue to do. So you've

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Speaker 1: got a really interesting view on how global work patterns

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Speaker 1: are shifting in real time. And I know every hour

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Speaker 1: of this war is different. What are you seeing, what

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Speaker 1: trends are you seeing, what's changing. It's a very dynamic situation.

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Speaker 1: We're certainly seeing and hearing a lot of customers and

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Speaker 1: businesses that we work with who have teams in the region,

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Speaker 1: either on upwork or just their own employees on the ground,

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Speaker 1: are making very swift decisions to move and relocate that

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Speaker 1: talent if the talent is willing to relocate UH. And

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Speaker 1: in many cases, the things that we're doing are trying

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Speaker 1: to help them with payrolling and onboarding that talent onto

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Speaker 1: our platform to help them be able to pay those

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Speaker 1: people with continuity. UH. In many cases they're looking to

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Speaker 1: spin up alternative talent in parallel to you know, they're

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Speaker 1: continuing to pay their people in the region because everyone

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Speaker 1: is trying to support but also have business continuity with

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Speaker 1: UM talent in other regions that can kind of keep

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Speaker 1: working even as there's uncertainty in terms of how this

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Speaker 1: is going to unfold. So those are some of the

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Speaker 1: efforts that we're helping UM. You know, our customers with

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Speaker 1: on the ground as they're trying to navigate through this

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Speaker 1: very tough time. All Right, Hayden Brown, CEO of up Work,

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Speaker 1: will be continuing to monitor how you're handling the situation

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Speaker 1: out there. Thank you for giving us some context on

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Speaker 1: your decision. Bloomberg has learned that public health experts at

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Speaker 1: the World Health Organization have begun discussing how and when

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Speaker 1: to call an end to the pandemic. Bloomber's Drew Armstrong

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Speaker 1: joining us now for more on this story. Is this

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Speaker 1: actually happening, Drew? And is the pandemic really near an end?

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Speaker 1: You know, it's one of these things where for the

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Speaker 1: pandemic to be at an end that's really going to

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Speaker 1: be determined by human behavior and the virus. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things that happened very early on, and I

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Speaker 1: remember it well, January and the WHO declared COVID nineteen

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Speaker 1: um to be a public health emergency of International concern.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that was a real symbolic moment because

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Speaker 1: it's set off all of these actions, precautions. You know,

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Speaker 1: they race to kind of fight the virus on an

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Speaker 1: international level that has since then really become the North

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have a global vaccine distribution program um

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Speaker 1: countries have really figured out how they want to approach

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Speaker 1: public health restrictions and something that's been an emergency now

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Speaker 1: for two plus years has really kind of been the

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Speaker 1: way of being. And so now they're starting to talk about, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are the steps and what are the progress that

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Speaker 1: we need to see to resend an emergency declaration to

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Speaker 1: say They're not there yet. They're still figuring out what

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Speaker 1: that off ramp looks like, but it is a meaningful

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Speaker 1: sign that they're beginning to have this conversation. Well. And

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Speaker 1: while cases have fallen in many places, we're seeing right

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Speaker 1: now deaths spiking in Hong Kong. China just reported more

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Speaker 1: than a thousand new daily cases for the first time

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Speaker 1: in two years. Are we at a point where this

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Speaker 1: is starting to get worse again? You know? I think

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Speaker 1: one of the truisms of this pandemic has been that,

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Speaker 1: you know this, it did not start everywhere all at

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Speaker 1: once in the same way, and it's not going to

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Speaker 1: end all at once, everywhere in the same way. We

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Speaker 1: do see places like China and Hong Kong which have

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Speaker 1: used different vaccines which may have different levels of efficacy.

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong in particular, they've had issues vaccinating some of

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Speaker 1: their most elderly vulnerable populations. And so just because the

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Speaker 1: pandemic feels like it's over, you know, here in some

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Speaker 1: part of the United States, doesn't mean it's over everywhere else. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this thing will stutter along for quite a while. I

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Speaker 1: would expect we will not be done with this. We

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Speaker 1: won't be done with COVID. Code won't go away. They

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Speaker 1: will just receed a little bit more into the background

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Speaker 1: sometimes and come back to the foreground at other times. Quickly,

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Speaker 1: What would this emergency declaration actually mean in practice? You know,

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Speaker 1: more than anything, these emergency declarations are kind of symbolic

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Speaker 1: measures saying, hey, we need to do something about this,

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Speaker 1: and trying to step up international coordination. I think it

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Speaker 1: would be an acknowledgement that a lot of the structures

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Speaker 1: are in place. Things are working in some cases as

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Speaker 1: they should be. In that the w h O, you know,

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Speaker 1: it does have other things that it needs to focus on.

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Speaker 1: Drew Armstrong for Bloomberg News. Thanks Drew for that update.

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Speaker 1: Coming TikTok and the War in Ukraine, Ukrainian users taking

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Speaker 1: to the platform to tell tales of their lives and

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Speaker 1: homes being destroyed, but also propaganda thriving what to do

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Speaker 1: about it? That's next. This is Bloomberg, all right. I

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Speaker 1: want to move on now to TikTok, the social media

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Speaker 1: app known for silly videos, dance moves and tutorials. It's now,

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Speaker 1: of course, also being used to create war means on

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Speaker 1: the ground, updates and testimonials from within Ukraine, but also

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Speaker 1: Russian propaganda and fake testimonials, all in a bid to

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Speaker 1: influence global perspectives on the invasion, leaving the social platforms

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Speaker 1: struggling with how to cope with its new role in geopolitics.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about all of this and more

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Speaker 1: with Megan Lloyst, investor at Laro Hippo and founder of

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Speaker 1: gen Z vcs Beck and great to have you with us.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of how TikTok is being used

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Speaker 1: here for better and for worse? For sure? And I

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Speaker 1: think when you think about TikTok, this is how billions

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Speaker 1: of people all over the world are receiving news for

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Speaker 1: the first time about the war, especially gen Z on

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Speaker 1: the On the positive side, right, it can be used

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Speaker 1: for good. Even just yesterday, the White House brought thirty

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Speaker 1: top Tiktoker's together to just arm them with the right

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Speaker 1: information about what is happening, how the US is thinking

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Speaker 1: about politics and what they should be talking about on

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Speaker 1: their platforms. And on the flip side, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: obviously misinformation being spread on the platform, and I think

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Speaker 1: TikTok is doing the best they can to to to

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Speaker 1: mitigate that in many ways, such as you know, I

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Speaker 1: think users in Russia, for example, today, they can't live stream,

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Speaker 1: they can't post on TikTok, so there's no one right

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Speaker 1: way to do it. But I do think making sure

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Speaker 1: that you're arming TikTok creators with the right information is

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Speaker 1: a is a great start. So look, the concern is

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Speaker 1: that TikTok serves a younger generation, and is you know,

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Speaker 1: a younger generation of users around the world going to

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Speaker 1: have the wrong idea of what's really going on in

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Speaker 1: this war. I think it's it's hopeful, actually, I think

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Speaker 1: to see it from the perspective of younger users, like

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Speaker 1: there are gen z citizens on the ground speaking to

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Speaker 1: what's happening in the war. So even if you're reading

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Speaker 1: news for the first time on an articles and such,

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Speaker 1: you can actually see the experiences from young people that

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Speaker 1: are documenting it in their own way. It can be

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Speaker 1: gen z dark humor, it can be actually the perspective

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Speaker 1: of soldiers. That is something that's hard to fully discount

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Speaker 1: when you're seeing it through the perspective of people who

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Speaker 1: your own age, and so I think from from that perspective,

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Speaker 1: it's it's actually kind of helpful to see kind of

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Speaker 1: and and feel it in real time from for people

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Speaker 1: who are experiencing it on the ground that you know,

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Speaker 1: they they look like you. Maybe just a week ago

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Speaker 1: they were in school and now they're hiding in bomb

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Speaker 1: shelters and cooking, you know, cooking meals for the first time.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a it makes it feel much more real,

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Speaker 1: I think to see it from the van to the

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Speaker 1: point of your peers, those testimonials from Ukraine on TikTok

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Speaker 1: have been incredibly powerful. You know, what are you telling

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Speaker 1: your portfolio companies right now about the environment? All of

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Speaker 1: this global economic uncertainty, no one knowing how this or

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Speaker 1: if this war will end. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: early stage companies are largely uh, you know, they're protected

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Speaker 1: from this in many ways. Giving lair Hippo or an

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Speaker 1: early stage venture firm, and so many of our companies

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Speaker 1: are seed series A stage, and so it's not as

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Speaker 1: as as pressing I would say for early stage companies especially,

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Speaker 1: But of course events like this are always impacting the

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Speaker 1: public markets. But given we're long term oriented investors, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think with any early stage company, focus

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Speaker 1: is very important and keeping focused on so of what

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Speaker 1: you're you know, your core objectives are as a founder,

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Speaker 1: and so we we try to guide them towards that

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Speaker 1: as much as possible. As you look into the future,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're looking to back the next big thing.

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Speaker 1: Do you see an opportunity for the next TikTok, for

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Speaker 1: a platform that is perhaps more equitable and better at

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Speaker 1: manage some of these complex issues. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: I'm a big believer in the democrazation of tools in general. Right,

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Speaker 1: Like we're talking a lot about backing you know, companies

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Speaker 1: that are building tools for creators, people who are uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, making conversation in many ways and building brands

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Speaker 1: and building influence. Right Like, the next generation of brands,

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Speaker 1: they're they're all content creators and many of them are

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Speaker 1: gen z and so I think, you know, next gen

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Speaker 1: social platforms companies that are building in Web three, for example,

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Speaker 1: and thinking about empowered ownership and incentivization for for for

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Speaker 1: users is really important. So um, I think on that front,

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Speaker 1: certainly looking at next gend social platforms, but especially I

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Speaker 1: would say in the context of Web three and how

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Speaker 1: you know, how gen zers in particular can be owning

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Speaker 1: and monetizing their content versus farming it out to Web

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Speaker 1: two platforms or like like TikTok, like Facebook, like like Instagram.

430
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Speaker 1: For example, you started this global community, megan of gen z, investors, founders, angels, students.

431
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: What are your priorities here, What are gens ease priorities here?

432
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 1: In terms of what needs to be built what should

433
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,119
Speaker 1: be built? Totally? I think, well, I think the first

434
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: part is knowledge, right, like making sure that everyone has

435
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: equal access to opportunity to be able to start businesses

436
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 1: as founders and also to be able to to invest

437
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 1: and have a say in what are the companies that

438
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: are going to be impacting our generation. So even just

439
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: last week we launched a marketplace to democratize the startup

440
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: stock right and in you know, a week or so alone,

441
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 1: we've saved founders five million dollars in getting started on

442
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 1: day one that is real and tangible impact where it

443
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if you know, if your your parents worked

444
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: in finance, if you have a college education, none of

445
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: that should matter at the end of the day. And

446
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: so when I think about sort of what I'm doing

447
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: with gen zbc S and our mission, it's really to

448
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: help democratize access in every way and that is through knowledge,

449
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: it's through opportunities and jobs and UH and through the

450
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: initiatives that we that we run through gen Z vcs

451
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: UH and you know, I think having gen Z be

452
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation both in starting businesses and

453
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 1: investing in those businesses, it's going to play a large

454
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: role into like what companies get funded, what businesses are started,

455
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: and how you're incorporating that gen Z and diverse feedback

456
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:06,919
Speaker 1: around the table at every step of the way. So

457
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: I do think it's it's very important that gen Z

458
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: is playing a role, but that we're also making it

459
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 1: more accessible to everyone. Megan Loyst, investor at Lara Hippo

460
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: and founder of gen Z FACS. Megan, always great to

461
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: have you with us. Thanks. Coming up more on President

462
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Bion's executive order on crypto, We're gonna be joined by

463
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 1: former State Department veteran and Kurt Crypto VC Tom Tilman

464
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: or his take gone crypto's war role in the war

465
00:25:33,720 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. This is Bloomberg. Bitcoin is known for its

466
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: perpetual edge and flows, but even after an eventful past

467
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: few days, the digital asset is finishing the week practically

468
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 1: in the same place it started. Time now for our

469
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: crypto report with our crypto contributor Sanale Bostic Sheanale, Why

470
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: why back to the beginning? Yeah, really back to the beginning,

471
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: actually lower than when we were just a week ago.

472
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 1: And if you look just earlier this week, we had

473
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: a moment where bitcoins are passed forty dollars. Again, that

474
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 1: was a little over three days ago, and heading into

475
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: the beginning, while we're still seeing a little bit of

476
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: a lift, we do see bitcoin lower on the twenty

477
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: four hour period and over the last three days. So

478
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,239
Speaker 1: what are we looking at here? We we had all

479
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: of this excitement, where did it all go? And by

480
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: the way, when you're talking about bitcoin and you look

481
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: at the theoryum as well, you see that when the

482
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: Bitcoin excitement wanes, the other coins have even more of

483
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: an outflow, So you do see it an even big

484
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: or drop off in the theory of itself. The one

485
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: thing you see stable is the stable coins. I wanted

486
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: to draw attention to it, not only because it's been

487
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: stable throughout much of this crisis. Emily, there's also news

488
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: out on stable coin today, a major hedge fund on

489
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: Wall Street that is trying to short it and found

490
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 1: an artificial way to short it as it faces a

491
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: regulatory scrutiny. You and I have talked about this before

492
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: with Marty Chavez earlier this week, that stable coin regulation

493
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: will be just as important as we think about crypto

494
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 1: regulation overall. So a lot of un answered questions for

495
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: the industry here and as you say, back to where

496
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: we started, all right, Shanali, thank you stay with us. Uh,

497
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: We're gonna come back to President Biden's recent executive order. Now,

498
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: our next guest to Michael Tilman. He was the head

499
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: of global policy at Entrees and Horowitz is and is

500
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: now part of Katie Hans new yet to be named

501
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: cryptocurrency firm. He's also worked closely with the biggest in politics,

502
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, President Biden, John Kerry, former President Obama, and

503
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: worked in collaboration with the World Bank. M I. T.

504
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,719
Speaker 1: And governments around the world. So to Mica, you certainly

505
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: have quite the resume. Really curious for your thoughts on

506
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: crypto now and how it is being used in geopolitics,

507
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: the spotlight on cryptocurrency given the war in Ukraine and

508
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: the concerns about it being used, you know, for illicit

509
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: activities as well. What does this tell you? Well, this

510
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: is certainly a heartbreaking moment and our thoughts and prayers

511
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: are with the people of Ukraine. I think that for

512
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: us and for many in the community, are primary concern

513
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: is how we can help support the Ukrainian people and

514
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: nation in this moment of need. What we have seen

515
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 1: over the last few weeks is a really extraordinary ground

516
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: swallow of support. We've been in close touch with Minister

517
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: Alex Boornyayev, who is Ukraine's Deputy Minister of Digital Transformation.

518
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: He and others in the Ukrainian government a few weeks

519
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: back issued a plea to those around the world with

520
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: digital assets to support them. They posted digital addresses for

521
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: digital while let's and they have received now a hundred

522
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: million dollars in support from individuals all around the planet

523
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: who for the first time in history can give help

524
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: directly to assist a government that is in crisis. In

525
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: the context of this conflict, what we're seeing is that

526
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: the Ukrainian government is using those resources to purchase non

527
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: lethal equipment like body armor, rations night vision goggles that

528
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: are helping to keep their people safe. And it's also

529
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: proving to be an incredibly important instrument in preserving data.

530
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: Distributed data networks like our weave are providing a safe

531
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: haven for resources and for information that would otherwise come

532
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: under threat as a result of the Russian invasion, and

533
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: they're also being used to preserve evidence of war crimes

534
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: for future prosecution. So certainly the first major conflict in

535
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: which we've seen Web three tools play a significant role,

536
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: and fortunately they seem to be proving very useful to

537
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: the Cranian people in this moment of crisis. To that point,

538
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: there's concern crypto could be useful to the Russian people,

539
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: that wealthy Russians could use cryptocurrency to circumvent sanctions. This

540
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: at the same time that President Biden, with this executive order,

541
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: is telling the US government to do more research here

542
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, how the US government should

543
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: approach it. You seem pretty optimistic about this executive order. Why, Well,

544
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: the most important thing to listen to, the most important

545
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: people listen to, is it relates to sanctions of Asian.

546
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: Are fins send, the agency of the US government that

547
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: is responsible for tracking illicit financial flows. They came out

548
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,360
Speaker 1: a few days ago and said that they are quite

549
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: confident that crypto assets and digital assets are not going

550
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: to be used and are not being used for large

551
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: scale sanctions of Asian I've had many long discussions with

552
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: national security and law enforcement agencies this week. They are

553
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: extremely comfortable with their ability to track illicit flows and

554
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: field that these instruments are not going to play a

555
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: significant role in Russia's ability to circumvent the sanctions. More broadly,

556
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 1: the executive order presents a real watershed moment for the community.

557
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: This is the first time that we have seen a

558
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: serious whole of government effort on the part of the

559
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: United States to launch a comprehensive conversation about what we

560
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: want the future of the Internet to entail. And we

561
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: think this is excellent news. What we are finding in

562
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 1: our discussions with the leaders in the administration and in

563
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: Congress is that those who take the time to really

564
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: dig in and study the potential of these technologies. Come

565
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: away very encouraged by the array of problems that we have,

566
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: the potential assault certainly, Please, I'm really curious about something

567
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: that you started to mention a little earlier, you know,

568
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: the ability to get help and purchase non lethal weapons here.

569
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: You know, obviously this fundraising at such a massive scale

570
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: has really drawn the attention of many communities here. But

571
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm wondering here about what the dark side could be too,

572
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: and what would happen if some of this power to

573
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: fundraise had gotten into the wrong hands. Well, it certainly

574
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: is a risk that we need to be very mindful of.

575
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: Within the Web three community. What we're seeing right now

576
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: is that law enforcement and national security leaders are confident

577
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 1: in their ability to manage and track illicit transactions that

578
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,479
Speaker 1: utilize digital assets, and those who are engaging on behalf

579
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: of open societies are finding an incredibly valuable and potent

580
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: new set of tools that can help in responding to

581
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: this crisis. I remember in two thousand eight I went

582
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: in alone with Joe Biden to Tubilisi, the capital of Georgia,

583
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: during the Russian invasion of that country, and as that

584
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: city was ringed with Russian armor. The then Chairman Biden

585
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: and I started putting together plans for a one billion

586
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: dollar relief package that would assist the Georgian people. And

587
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: what we recognized very quickly on our way home is

588
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: that it is going to be very tough to get

589
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: the assets there quickly, in a traceable manner and have

590
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: confidence that they were going to be used correctly. All

591
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: of you will You'll remember that during Iraq we use

592
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: palettes of hundred dollar bills. This is a quantum leap

593
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: forward in terms of our ability to transparently move assets

594
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: into complex emergencies really quickly. Here you know you mentioned,

595
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: are we even the ability to trace war crimes? Potentially?

596
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: Is there any evidence that the international uh the i

597
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: SEC is able to to actually use it? I mean,

598
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: is there any evidence that the international community is actually

599
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: tracing war crimes via bockchain technologies. Already, in advance of

600
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: the conflict, you saw the Ukrainian government and leaders in

601
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:52,959
Speaker 1: Ukraine stockpiling thousands and thousands of sensitive documents on the

602
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: r weave platform in order to facilitate future post conflict

603
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: rebuilding in the event that the hard copies of those

604
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: doc units would be destroyed and as we speak, there

605
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: is documentation of atrocities and war crimes going on utilizing

606
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: that platform. It's a distributed architecture, which means that it

607
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 1: would be virtually impossible for the Russians or other bad

608
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: actors to eliminate this evidence. And it addresses what has

609
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: historically been one of the greatest challenges in war crimes prosecution,

610
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: which is how do you maintain a strong chain of

611
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: evidence from the time that an atrocity is committed to

612
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 1: the time that you're able to bring charges in the Hague.

613
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: Right to Mica Tillman, We're going to have to continue

614
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,640
Speaker 1: this conversation at another time. Really really fascinating things points

615
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: are raising here to make a Tillman. With Katie Hunt's

616
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: new cryptocurrency VC firm, we're gonna be following your next

617
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: moves along with our crypto contributor Shinali Bassi. Coming up,

618
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 1: the trial for Sunny Balwani, former Theonis president, an ex

619
00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: boyfriend Elizabeth Holmes. That trial starts now next week. We'll

620
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: dig into what it means for Holmes as she awaits sentencing.

621
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: That's next. This is Bloomberg as Saranos founder Elizabeth Holmes

622
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: awaits sentencing her ex boyfriend and former president of Paranos,

623
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: Sonny Baulwani, begins his trial Wednesday. She has accused him

624
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 1: of abuse, and the outcome of his trial could give

625
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: us an indication of the potential sentence time for Holmes herself.

626
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: I'm want to get the details from our Bloomberg legal

627
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: reporter Joe rosen Black, who was at the courthouse every

628
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: day during Holmes's trial. So, Joel, how could Sonny's case

629
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: impact what happens with Holmes's sentence here, given that the

630
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: verdict has already come down. Yeah, well, the vergine has

631
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: come down, but the judge has delayed her sentencing for

632
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: a very important reason, and that is that wants to

633
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: see what role Sonny Balwani played in all of it.

634
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: So his trial begins on Tuesday. Opening arguments begin on Tuesday.

635
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: Jury selection is underway as we speak. Uh, what role

636
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 1: he played factors into the judges sentencing of Elizabeth Holmes.

637
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: So depending on what he finds, what he learns about

638
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: whether she was more involved than actually her trial representat

639
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: or showed or was less involved, or whether Sonny was

640
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: really actually kind of more behind behind the scenes doing

641
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: more to control her as she alleged whether or not

642
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: he actually believes some of those allegations that she leveled

643
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: at him. That all factors into his sentence of Elizabeth Holmes.

644
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Interesting now, as a reminder to our viewers, there were

645
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: multiple charges that she was found guilty of, multiple charges

646
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: she was found not guilty of, and multiple charges that

647
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: the jury couldn't come to a conclusion on. They were

648
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: at an impass. What happens with some of those other charges.

649
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: How will the judge and this trial handle those potentially differently? Well, right,

650
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: that's that's very interesting. So they are they were indicted,

651
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,280
Speaker 1: Sunny Bowani and Elizabeth Holmes were indicted as co conspirators.

652
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 1: They were boyfriend girlfriend, they were president and CEO. Many

653
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: people assume at this point that they were as thick

654
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,760
Speaker 1: as thieves, and that that the Sunny Balwanni just faces

655
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: basically the same trial. I don't think that's quite the case. Uh.

656
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: And the charges that that Elizabeth Holmes was vindicated of,

657
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: I think will inform this trial. So for example, uh,

658
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: the jury and Elizabeth Holmes trial found that she wasn't

659
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 1: guilty at all of defrauding patients. Well, Sunny boult Wanni

660
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: was much more in charge of the laboratories, and so

661
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: he was much more closer. He was closer to the

662
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 1: to the results that many employees said, we're fake, We're

663
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: just weren't true at all, weren't accurate at all. And

664
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: so whether or not those charges of patient fraud are

665
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,879
Speaker 1: how how the government presents those cases and what how

666
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: Sony defends against them will be different, I think in

667
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: this trial. I think that's gonna be a much more

668
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 1: important part of the trial. Interesting well, Joel, we will

669
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: of course be watching for your coverage. Uh starting up

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00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: Middilla next week are Joel Rosen Black Black. Thank you

671
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 1: as always for your context there. And that does it

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00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. I'm Emily changin San Francisco.

673
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm heading to Austin this weekend for south By Southwest.

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00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,239
Speaker 1: Will bring you some of my interviews from south By

675
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: Southwest next week on the show. Have a wonderful weekend everyone.

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Speaker 1: This is