Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and
Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin.
Speaker 1: The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to
Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences,
Speaker 1: are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons
Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists,
Speaker 1: and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss
Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very
Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy.
Speaker 1: Would you believe it if I told you there is
Speaker 1: a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and
Speaker 1: the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not
Speaker 1: until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana
Speaker 1: is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista.
Speaker 1: She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times,
Speaker 1: New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of
Speaker 1: The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications,
Speaker 1: including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine,
Speaker 1: and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and
Speaker 1: H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling
Speaker 1: in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now
Speaker 1: writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing
Speaker 1: from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of
Speaker 1: a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim,
Speaker 1: which was her first novel published a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and
Speaker 1: I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's
Speaker 1: generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning,
Speaker 1: because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona,
Speaker 1: we did have some connection issues here and there, so
Speaker 1: the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not
Speaker 1: quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So
Speaker 1: sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation,
Speaker 1: had a lot of laughs, and also I got some
Speaker 1: genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview
Speaker 1: with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us
Speaker 1: this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk
Speaker 1: to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all
Speaker 1: about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor,
Speaker 1: and I've told them a little bit about your first
Speaker 1: book now, um, but I want you to tell them
Speaker 1: more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it was, Um it was one of the
Speaker 1: best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh
Speaker 1: it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half
Speaker 1: page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really
Speaker 1: for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you. It was when I left the fashion world,
Speaker 1: I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to
Speaker 1: have a serial killer set in the fashion world and
Speaker 1: no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of the idea of it. And
Speaker 1: then I just I have to I have to ask
Speaker 1: you were you were you thinking about se real killing
Speaker 1: like people in the industries that will happen to like
Speaker 1: made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it
Speaker 1: was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having
Speaker 1: to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's
Speaker 1: definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were
Speaker 1: you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like
Speaker 1: a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I
Speaker 1: haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to
Speaker 1: get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break.
Speaker 1: But let me ask you. Were you a writer before
Speaker 1: this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer,
Speaker 1: so mostly I did like blog writing for like like
Speaker 1: New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I
Speaker 1: would you know, edit and right on there. And I
Speaker 1: would write for l and edit for them. So, you know,
Speaker 1: like all of places I've I've worked, I was always
Speaker 1: editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself
Speaker 1: as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh,
Speaker 1: though those people get M F A S and IOWA
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well,
Speaker 1: why don't I just write this and see what happens
Speaker 1: and we'll go from there. And you know kind of
Speaker 1: what I did. Well, I mean that says and and
Speaker 1: uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And
Speaker 1: but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the
Speaker 1: next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um,
Speaker 1: After after New York and that in the fashion world,
Speaker 1: I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives,
Speaker 1: and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the
Speaker 1: insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the
Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly
Speaker 1: beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats,
Speaker 1: you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I
Speaker 1: follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the
Speaker 1: wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like
Speaker 1: in a nat Geo special. I live on the side
Speaker 1: of a mountain and I have a well and there's
Speaker 1: a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a
Speaker 1: really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're
Speaker 1: very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um.
Speaker 1: And it's just a complete one eat from my life
Speaker 1: in New York, like completely, and and why did you
Speaker 1: decide to do that? It was it was it just
Speaker 1: to be closer to your father, or you just needed
Speaker 1: like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in
Speaker 1: New York for over twenty years, and I I was
Speaker 1: birked out, you know, I just I hit that point
Speaker 1: where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I
Speaker 1: was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And
Speaker 1: my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought,
Speaker 1: you know, this is a really good time for me
Speaker 1: to be out there, so we can keep an eye
Speaker 1: on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's
Speaker 1: pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following
Speaker 1: your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad.
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember
Speaker 1: when I started following you or why. I know, I
Speaker 1: was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some
Speaker 1: point in I don't know, but I feel like I
Speaker 1: sort of following you because you tweeted something about a
Speaker 1: gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And
Speaker 1: so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell
Speaker 1: us about a little bout your second book without giving
Speaker 1: it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith
Speaker 1: and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with
Speaker 1: the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it
Speaker 1: follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also
Speaker 1: one who happens to be this and she's had a
Speaker 1: very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because
Speaker 1: her you know, her family was just weird. And I
Speaker 1: feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is
Speaker 1: about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's really about like finding your place
Speaker 1: and finding your people. And at the same time, of course,
Speaker 1: there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people
Speaker 1: in books. Um, It's a really right way to get
Speaker 1: your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really
Speaker 1: just so it's following all these women and you're trying
Speaker 1: to figure out who to murder. It is so you know,
Speaker 1: all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning
Speaker 1: up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's
Speaker 1: the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm
Speaker 1: working on now. But there is thank you Well The
Speaker 1: Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that
Speaker 1: one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what
Speaker 1: it is is it it's this woman who um has
Speaker 1: a gin and she didn't know it, and so she
Speaker 1: makes this wish when she's five and you know, her
Speaker 1: birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She
Speaker 1: wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and
Speaker 1: Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is
Speaker 1: that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older,
Speaker 1: she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who
Speaker 1: are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not
Speaker 1: at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me
Speaker 1: because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres
Speaker 1: all over the world who are dying like car accidents,
Speaker 1: they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three
Speaker 1: or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she
Speaker 1: now has to try to figure out how to how
Speaker 1: to make this stop and how she can be the
Speaker 1: best her and so that's the whole book. And like
Speaker 1: you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy,
Speaker 1: you know, So that's that's the idea for that next
Speaker 1: one that actually started you know what, I want to
Speaker 1: read all the books. They all sound So that's just
Speaker 1: a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you
Speaker 1: were doing like you're like starting to do like some
Speaker 1: real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know,
Speaker 1: the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did
Speaker 1: the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the
Speaker 1: research for your book. But we grew up also around
Speaker 1: on all this, and I want to talk about that.
Speaker 1: So where's your family from, by the way, I feel
Speaker 1: like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore.
Speaker 1: I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right,
Speaker 1: was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India
Speaker 1: and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My
Speaker 1: family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my
Speaker 1: dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a
Speaker 1: lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay,
Speaker 1: So let's start there, because I want to know, Like
Speaker 1: in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories
Speaker 1: a thing that like we're just kind of like like
Speaker 1: very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids
Speaker 1: got together and then they stop stories or no, they
Speaker 1: were like time stories, like my dad would like tell
Speaker 1: us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us
Speaker 1: the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in
Speaker 1: a village, and you know when he grew up, and
Speaker 1: you know, he was born in the thirties, it was
Speaker 1: a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents.
Speaker 1: He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just
Speaker 1: kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he
Speaker 1: had there was a one room. So his great grandfather,
Speaker 1: uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I
Speaker 1: gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said
Speaker 1: his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who
Speaker 1: might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is
Speaker 1: basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it
Speaker 1: was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand
Speaker 1: father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin.
Speaker 1: He was supposed to be passed down when his great
Speaker 1: grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't
Speaker 1: think his sons were able to deal with this. So
Speaker 1: when you say that he had as yeah, when you
Speaker 1: say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the
Speaker 1: only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was
Speaker 1: there anybody else? Or did you he just go to
Speaker 1: a classroom and it was like him in an empty room?
Speaker 1: And that's the big is are they? I think I
Speaker 1: was just like in their house and there were two
Speaker 1: male jin that would come and they would do favors
Speaker 1: for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um,
Speaker 1: Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet,
Speaker 1: a new wallet would just show up. Or if they
Speaker 1: were out of butter, butter would just show up outside
Speaker 1: their door. So it was really strange. And my father
Speaker 1: grew up with this in that there was one room
Speaker 1: in the house no one could go into. They went
Speaker 1: into that and I always, as a child, I thought
Speaker 1: he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand
Speaker 1: quite that it was a gin until like later in life,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I put it all together, and
Speaker 1: the only person would go into that room was my father,
Speaker 1: and so he would keep his toys in there so
Speaker 1: nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became,
Speaker 1: you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay,
Speaker 1: so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in
Speaker 1: the family had permission to go in that room, and
Speaker 1: his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin
Speaker 1: down but for but your father had some kind of definity,
Speaker 1: some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to
Speaker 1: connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it.
Speaker 1: So I would say, like twenty years ago he would
Speaker 1: have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what
Speaker 1: what they are, what happens, But that was part of
Speaker 1: my childhood and so that's what he says to me.
Speaker 1: And so and he has a lot of stories of
Speaker 1: other people in the family dealing with the gin. And
Speaker 1: his mother used to um, who he says I remind
Speaker 1: him of, which is a little scary because she used
Speaker 1: to talk to the dead um and she always had
Speaker 1: these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen,
Speaker 1: I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead
Speaker 1: people as far as I know. And so it's like
Speaker 1: the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, UM. So he for him,
Speaker 1: this was really normal and natural, and then you know,
Speaker 1: you come to America and it's not. So I think
Speaker 1: he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually
Speaker 1: stop believing or did he just And I also know
Speaker 1: your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist?
Speaker 1: He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know
Speaker 1: he's really like you know, you know this, he's you
Speaker 1: gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know.
Speaker 1: So he came to the US as an engineer actually
Speaker 1: and then became and then went to medical school after
Speaker 1: we were all born because he realized they're gonna be
Speaker 1: expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes
Speaker 1: I asked him, like, you know why, like does that
Speaker 1: impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was
Speaker 1: like an insanity thing or is it real? And he
Speaker 1: honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer
Speaker 1: to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the
Speaker 1: answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such
Speaker 1: a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me
Speaker 1: ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have
Speaker 1: the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like,
Speaker 1: what are what are some of the experiences that you
Speaker 1: can share with us that he had that he he
Speaker 1: cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is his. Um, well,
Speaker 1: I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um.
Speaker 1: But the the story in our family, and I know
Speaker 1: every family has their own stories about gin. So that's
Speaker 1: why it's a little difficult to get like research because
Speaker 1: everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed
Speaker 1: to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course.
Speaker 1: And so I asked myself, well, who has them then?
Speaker 1: Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real,
Speaker 1: they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me.
Speaker 1: I want to hang out with them. I want to
Speaker 1: I just want to see what they are and um.
Speaker 1: Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched
Speaker 1: on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic,
Speaker 1: a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes,
Speaker 1: way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is my things healer or this is nice psychic
Speaker 1: medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great
Speaker 1: thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a
Speaker 1: big part of the fashion world, which I don't think
Speaker 1: people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman
Speaker 1: in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion
Speaker 1: girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want
Speaker 1: to see what she's about, you know, like why not,
Speaker 1: and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid
Speaker 1: of it, just find it and tell me where it
Speaker 1: might be. So I go see her and I explained
Speaker 1: to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for.
Speaker 1: And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about
Speaker 1: your culture, but let's just see she does all these things,
Speaker 1: like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever,
Speaker 1: all of it, you know, and it's like it's in
Speaker 1: a small like treatment room, but you know, she like
Speaker 1: there's enough space where she can be against the wall
Speaker 1: and can't come near me, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So
Speaker 1: at one point she started doing something and I swear
Speaker 1: to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm
Speaker 1: not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's
Speaker 1: something on me and I can't breathe and the woman
Speaker 1: is across the room, so it's not her. And she
Speaker 1: starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her.
Speaker 1: And I was just like, you have to say, whatever
Speaker 1: you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just
Speaker 1: don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it.
Speaker 1: It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps.
Speaker 1: I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well,
Speaker 1: the weird thing was is I used to and this
Speaker 1: is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always
Speaker 1: feel like there was something around and like I'm on
Speaker 1: the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm
Speaker 1: fine because there's something near me and I can't explain
Speaker 1: it more than that. But after I went to that lady,
Speaker 1: that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation
Speaker 1: because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, but there's something here. But did you always
Speaker 1: have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh,
Speaker 1: I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was
Speaker 1: an adult. But you know, are like my dad would
Speaker 1: you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when
Speaker 1: we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff.
Speaker 1: So we were always really I don't want to say
Speaker 1: like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept,
Speaker 1: but you know, more in tune with that part of life,
Speaker 1: Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here,
Speaker 1: read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading
Speaker 1: about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um.
Speaker 1: But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know,
Speaker 1: be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks,
Speaker 1: is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army?
Speaker 1: Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to
Speaker 1: do things? And I do not have an answer to
Speaker 1: that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a
Speaker 1: valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that.
Speaker 1: I've thought about that, um and and my my my
Speaker 1: conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know,
Speaker 1: he was the only one who was able to really
Speaker 1: control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that,
Speaker 1: you know, people are scared because I think what happens
Speaker 1: for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for
Speaker 1: whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if
Speaker 1: if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing,
Speaker 1: we also have to accept the fact that we can't
Speaker 1: really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe
Speaker 1: we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: let me ask you, and I think some some yes,
Speaker 1: go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I
Speaker 1: think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them.
Speaker 1: Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were
Speaker 1: part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether
Speaker 1: that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our
Speaker 1: family and they need to be recognized and you know,
Speaker 1: honored in that way. So that's the way I see
Speaker 1: it as opposed to like I want to summon a
Speaker 1: genie or something you know, we'll be right back after
Speaker 1: the short break. So you said, Um, you told me
Speaker 1: earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like,
Speaker 1: can you explain at least how you understand the connection
Speaker 1: between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which
Speaker 1: is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like
Speaker 1: a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of
Speaker 1: Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is
Speaker 1: a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: can you explain to me what you how you understand
Speaker 1: the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be
Speaker 1: probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um.
Speaker 1: And like my mother was, but you know she she's
Speaker 1: as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad,
Speaker 1: it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And
Speaker 1: and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily
Speaker 1: going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five
Speaker 1: times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um,
Speaker 1: and I that's how I feel about things. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right
Speaker 1: religion and you know, I just think that if you
Speaker 1: have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind
Speaker 1: of grew up not being as as Muslim as we
Speaker 1: could have, you know, like my cousins on my mom's
Speaker 1: side who grew up in the US, we're much more
Speaker 1: religious than we were. Um, but my dad would drop
Speaker 1: these weird stories on us. Like, Okay, I was four
Speaker 1: and I watched the Exorcist because again, my dad's funny
Speaker 1: that way, and my older brother was like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna it's a true story. And so you know, for
Speaker 1: yr oldly mind is blown. You know, I'm like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, my sister's gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have
Speaker 1: to share a room in the Puzuzu holy cow, totally panicking.
Speaker 1: And my dad says, it's okay, I know how to
Speaker 1: do exorcisms, and he was dead serious. It was just like, oh,
Speaker 1: that was a weird thing to say to a four
Speaker 1: year old, And as a four year old, you actually
Speaker 1: remember it, you remember that it's stuck with you. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I was so scared. I was terrified that my
Speaker 1: sister would become possessed because we shared a room and
Speaker 1: I would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking I would be
Speaker 1: watching her in my sleep, like literally standing by her bed,
Speaker 1: watching her to make sure she wouldn't. It was creepy.
Speaker 1: We were a creepy family. So what about your siblings?
Speaker 1: Did your siblings have your siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um, no,
Speaker 1: they're they're more hesitant to dive into things. Um Like,
Speaker 1: my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess with us,
Speaker 1: don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about it,
Speaker 1: and because I find it interesting, you know, because I
Speaker 1: think being in the West, you are, you know, in
Speaker 1: the US, you're surrounded by the superstitions and and and
Speaker 1: the mysticism that we have here, which is you know,
Speaker 1: witches and a Native Americans and druids and whatever. But
Speaker 1: what's laughing at our stories? And so I for me,
Speaker 1: it's really interesting to dive into this and and and
Speaker 1: find these stories because it's like, oh, well this makes
Speaker 1: sense to me and this is a part of who
Speaker 1: I am. And it's just I don't know, it's a
Speaker 1: weird way to feel more complete, I would say, but
Speaker 1: my brother and sister don't. Although I think my sister
Speaker 1: has a ghost, but you know it, Okay, Why why
Speaker 1: do you think your sister has a ghost. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I gotta follow that up. So my I threw, I've
Speaker 1: seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces is
Speaker 1: three and adorable, adorable kids, and she told my sister
Speaker 1: that there's a man over there and she's talking to
Speaker 1: and so my sister said, oh, well, is it a
Speaker 1: good person? And she said no, And so we were like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe that's just her being a little a little weird.
Speaker 1: But then my sister keeps waking up in the middle
Speaker 1: of the night hearing somebody call mom and it's not
Speaker 1: her kids. And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis,
Speaker 1: you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors, Maybe
Speaker 1: it's a cat outside making a weird noise. We've gone
Speaker 1: through all of the possibilities. And so she would just
Speaker 1: wake up and hear someone saying Mom, or she'll be
Speaker 1: you know, reading a book and somebody else mom, and
Speaker 1: it's not kids at all. So it's been a little weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's actually terrifying to me. I'm terrified. So I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I mean, I've been in that health Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I said, I've been in her own some I
Speaker 1: didn't sends anything off? But never know? Is she also
Speaker 1: does she also live in where you are right now
Speaker 1: out in Arizona? No, she lives in Port Worth? Okay,
Speaker 1: do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What what? What? How do you feel about? Like? Um?
Speaker 1: The difference between like the regions? I mean, are people
Speaker 1: moren't likely to encounter like gin or have these kind
Speaker 1: of experiences in a place like New York or a
Speaker 1: place like where you are now, which is remote and
Speaker 1: wild and and feels a little hoty definitely a little Um.
Speaker 1: I think that people would more likely experience it in
Speaker 1: the Arab and Indian regions, to be honest, because that's
Speaker 1: the home of these stories. Um. Do I think I
Speaker 1: could feel something here? Yeah? Listen, it's a Dumas beard.
Speaker 1: There's like I don't and unfortunately I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's just a marketing gammick for tourism or if it's real. Um.
Speaker 1: But there's the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes
Speaker 1: and so in the Red Rocks, and so you go
Speaker 1: there and you're supposed to feel things. Um, and there's
Speaker 1: just a high confluence of spiritual things here in theory.
Speaker 1: Um have you have you experienced? And yeah, not the
Speaker 1: vor text itself, but sometimes like in our host as
Speaker 1: you know, it feels good, good vibes whatever. Like I'm
Speaker 1: not scared of my house. I'm more scared of you know.
Speaker 1: Um like that movie The Strangers when you're out in
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside
Speaker 1: that scares me more than like ghosts. But like I'll
Speaker 1: be washing dishes and all of a sudden, you know,
Speaker 1: right next to me, I'll hear someone speaking Spanish and
Speaker 1: then it's gone, and it's almost like it's like just
Speaker 1: passing through. And that might have been when you follow me,
Speaker 1: because I believe about that. I was like, this is
Speaker 1: this is happening. It's really strange, but it wasn't scary
Speaker 1: the same times, you know, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like this whole area is just
Speaker 1: kind of funky that way. Okay, maybe it's a like
Speaker 1: a little a portal, right, like where certain worlds can be.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not the Yeah, and there's something I mean,
Speaker 1: every time I try to google it, I get some
Speaker 1: weird websites talking about Leylands, and I don't know any
Speaker 1: of that stuff. You know, maybe I have no idea.
Speaker 1: My I honestly cannot say one way or the other. Um,
Speaker 1: do I think people here might be a little sensitive
Speaker 1: to things? Yeah? Sure, you know, maybe they flocked here
Speaker 1: for that reason, right, because they're seeking something. You're already
Speaker 1: predisposed to something, right, Yeah, let me ask you this exactly?
Speaker 1: Can you can you share with us maybe one of
Speaker 1: the I mean, I would think as a four year old,
Speaker 1: it's a little frightening to have your father say, oh,
Speaker 1: no worries, I'm an exorcist. But but were there any
Speaker 1: other stories your father told you or or drop little
Speaker 1: hants or bombs are just kind of surprised you with
Speaker 1: that really really freak you out? Yeah? There, Well, his
Speaker 1: his mother seeing day people freaked me out. But um,
Speaker 1: the men in the family were the exorcists and the
Speaker 1: women were palm readers. And as you know, you're not
Speaker 1: supposed to read fortunes. Um in Islam could do it,
Speaker 1: and so yes, um, and so I remember it was
Speaker 1: it was my stepgrandmother. Um. She would read my palm
Speaker 1: um a lot, which always unnerked me. But then I
Speaker 1: started being able to do it, and I had this
Speaker 1: knack and I kind of call it my kids in
Speaker 1: the Hall sketch talent, and that I can read someone's
Speaker 1: palm and know their entire past and I can pinpoint
Speaker 1: things that happened to them that there's no way I
Speaker 1: should have known that, but it's it's like it's on
Speaker 1: your hands. Um So, my dad was really excited when
Speaker 1: I started, you know, learning palmistry and like getting it.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't do it often anymore because honestly,
Speaker 1: it's it's really entiring and I don't really want to
Speaker 1: know that much about people. Um So, it's actually it
Speaker 1: actually like his emotionally draining for you or physically draining
Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, oh yeah, I get I can do
Speaker 1: like one and then you know, I got a lot down.
Speaker 1: Um But my dad and I always wondered if it
Speaker 1: was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby
Speaker 1: about this woman who had ten thousand needles in her eye,
Speaker 1: and that was, you know, our bedtime stories. And to
Speaker 1: this day, I'm like, you're gonna come from Like I
Speaker 1: ordered a book of Punjabi folk tales trying to find
Speaker 1: this story because I and he doesn't quite remember where
Speaker 1: it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you know,
Speaker 1: we all know these songs. Wait, do you remember do
Speaker 1: you remember the song? Do you remember it? Allowing now?
Speaker 1: Was her name was dol football Um, which is you
Speaker 1: know football means and on your father's side, and and
Speaker 1: she was like pained or something, and then there were
Speaker 1: needles in her eyes. And this was supposed to make
Speaker 1: me go to sleep. I'm so sorry. No, I never
Speaker 1: had I never had a chance to be normal. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry you have to find this lullaby. I've never heard this.
Speaker 1: But to be fair, my parents were like, go to sleep.
Speaker 1: You don't get lullabies or but good night books or whatever,
Speaker 1: just go to bed. And we didn't get any of that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we got those. And then on the flip side,
Speaker 1: my mother would be like seeing a super colma, which
Speaker 1: I said to you, I had, I forgot what it was.
Speaker 1: And it's it's not a secret, it's just you know,
Speaker 1: a verse in the Koran. But my my mother's family
Speaker 1: called it the secret. And you have to you know,
Speaker 1: clap three times and footmar which is which is like
Speaker 1: kind of blowing wind out three fines to keep the
Speaker 1: bad juju away, So she would make us do that often,
Speaker 1: especially after my my dad would tell a story. Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, she had to ward off the evil. But
Speaker 1: he was like bringing bringing in um. Okay, if you ever,
Speaker 1: if you ever figure out what that lullaby was, I
Speaker 1: have to hear it, because I just have to hear it. Um.
Speaker 1: So let you never record him singing it. If he remembers,
Speaker 1: Oh wow, what was on somebody else in the family.
Speaker 1: You think your siblings might remember how how the tune
Speaker 1: went or anything. No, my sister, My sister remembers it
Speaker 1: was just really bizarre, okay, And we were like, why
Speaker 1: would you why would you say this? Two kids? So
Speaker 1: if you don't remember the way it went, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna let me ask you this. Did you have you
Speaker 1: ever are yourself You seem like you're really open to
Speaker 1: the to the not open to the idea that you believe,
Speaker 1: you believe in gin, that they there are a gin
Speaker 1: that are connected, that their gin that are connected to
Speaker 1: your family, and that you are open to being like
Speaker 1: receiving them in some way or or you're not scared
Speaker 1: of them. So have you ever actually actively tried to
Speaker 1: connect with them? Because I would not know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I
Speaker 1: one I haven't found, Um, I find out a Western text,
Speaker 1: you know, like why white writers and how to how
Speaker 1: to conjure them? That's that's not what I want. Um.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I would have want somebody from
Speaker 1: our culture who knows how to do it. But I'm
Speaker 1: also not the most religious person, and I feel like
Speaker 1: jin are so connected to our religion, even but even
Speaker 1: though some books I'm reading that they predate the religion,
Speaker 1: that they become part of the religion. So I feel
Speaker 1: like in order to summon them or conjure or whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, I feel like you have
Speaker 1: to have that religious component a little bit. Is that
Speaker 1: only so you so you feel more protected? Like? Is
Speaker 1: that why? I think? It's also so I don't screw
Speaker 1: something up, you know, Like I just I just don't
Speaker 1: think that I have that talent and to be perfectly honest, um,
Speaker 1: But I do feel like there's more I don't. My
Speaker 1: philosophy on all the spiritual stuff is that there are
Speaker 1: things that we can't explain and maybe one day we'll
Speaker 1: all have it figured out, you know, and and science
Speaker 1: will be like, yes, this is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM,
Speaker 1: But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts and I've
Speaker 1: had experiences with with UM. This is when it sounds crazy.
Speaker 1: There was a demon in my old apartment building, and
Speaker 1: I cannot believe. I cannot believe you're bringing up I
Speaker 1: can't believe you're bringing up the demon in your apartment building.
Speaker 1: This late into the conversation, but let's hear the story. Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted this story.
Speaker 1: So I lived, you know, on Upper East Side eighty nine.
Speaker 1: And first the apartment was great, was like a studio,
Speaker 1: but the closet was in the middle, so it was
Speaker 1: kind of separated the bed from rest. And I sleepwalk, granted,
Speaker 1: but I mean I sleepwalk a couple of times a
Speaker 1: year now, it's not like a weekly thing. I was
Speaker 1: sleepwalking every single night. Every night I would wake up
Speaker 1: either opening my closet trying to find something that shouldn't
Speaker 1: be there, or standing in the living room living area
Speaker 1: being like, something's here, it shouldn't be here. I did
Speaker 1: every single night for like weeks, and I made a
Speaker 1: joke some friends, I have a closet monster. And my
Speaker 1: dog started. Um, she started pinning her ears back at
Speaker 1: night and staring at things on the wall that weren't there,
Speaker 1: like there was no bug, there was nothing, and I'm
Speaker 1: just like watching her and I got so freaked out
Speaker 1: I had to put a blanket over her house. She
Speaker 1: would and she would do this every single day. And
Speaker 1: so now back to the whole fashion world things. This
Speaker 1: isn't while I was still in fashion. This is one
Speaker 1: of the those healers that I would go to dinner
Speaker 1: with with PR people. He called me out of the
Speaker 1: blue one day at you know, I'm at work. My
Speaker 1: phone rings my cellphone and he says, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you remember me. We went to dinner with this
Speaker 1: PR person six months ago. My spirit guides are telling
Speaker 1: me I have to get into your apartment. There's something there.
Speaker 1: And I dropped my phone. I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: I'm done. Like what So he came over and um,
Speaker 1: he was like, I can't even explain what he did.
Speaker 1: He does like energetic feng shway, and honestly, I don't
Speaker 1: know what that is. I don't know how it applies
Speaker 1: beyond regular peng shway. Um, but he was like, okay,
Speaker 1: there's something this apartment, but it's coming from another person,
Speaker 1: and it's coming, um three year bathroom, And I kind
Speaker 1: of lost my mind because the night before he came,
Speaker 1: I had this dream that if I went into the
Speaker 1: bathroom and left the lights off, it took a picture
Speaker 1: in the mirror with a flash on my camera on
Speaker 1: my phone, I would see whatever I wanted to what
Speaker 1: it was behind me. And I didn't do that in
Speaker 1: real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I
Speaker 1: thought no. So when he said it's coming in from
Speaker 1: the bathroom, I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So
Speaker 1: he does all these weird things. Um, you know, like
Speaker 1: he was using commusiology, which is so bizarre, Like he
Speaker 1: would ask you a question and the way he your
Speaker 1: arm would move with him would be yes or no,
Speaker 1: you were you're incapable of lying. It's the honestly, it's
Speaker 1: the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after he
Speaker 1: was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit
Speaker 1: lighter in the house an apartment, he said, wait, there's
Speaker 1: a message from your from your your dead mother here
Speaker 1: And I was like all right, and he's like it's
Speaker 1: on your bookshelf. Now my books. I'm I'm not an
Speaker 1: organized person. They're like half hazard. They're not color coordinated
Speaker 1: or anything, right, They're just piled up. And so he
Speaker 1: would use my arms, like gets on this shelf, yes
Speaker 1: or no, and so I like raising my arm yes
Speaker 1: or no. He could tell by the resistance which where
Speaker 1: it was. And he found this book and it's a
Speaker 1: Camle book. I don't elber Kamer coming. I don't remember reading.
Speaker 1: I know I did back in from college. And he
Speaker 1: finds the page using my arms at this page or
Speaker 1: it's an after this page and whatever, and he finds
Speaker 1: the line and he looks at me and he says,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but this is what you're supposed to say.
Speaker 1: And the line said, yes, it would be a pleasure
Speaker 1: to see my mother again. And I was just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know how he did that. I just I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't. I have no logical explanation for that, because
Speaker 1: there's just no way. There's absolutely like, there's no way
Speaker 1: he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine. I
Speaker 1: know there's a line in there, you know, I guess.
Speaker 1: But it was so randad and it wasn't even like
Speaker 1: the plague or the strangers. It was a more obscure
Speaker 1: one that people don't know. So it was really a
Speaker 1: strange experience for me because I just I knew something
Speaker 1: was around me that wasn't good and that my mom
Speaker 1: sometimes popped. I would say, Hi, it's like dd um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I've had to become more open. I was gonna ask that,
Speaker 1: how did you know it was a demon? Only because
Speaker 1: like you're in your because you had a sense of dread,
Speaker 1: or because this guy told you it was Yeah, I
Speaker 1: had a sense of dread. And then when he looked
Speaker 1: at me, he said the way he's like, the way
Speaker 1: I'm seeing this is um is uh? I think it
Speaker 1: was dark angle arch angel Michael babbling a demon. It
Speaker 1: was like, so that's the vision I'm seeing that. It's
Speaker 1: because I was like, please be a ghosts, please be
Speaker 1: a ghost. It's easy to get rid of ghosts, but
Speaker 1: you know, I saw my exorcist. I know how hard
Speaker 1: it is to get rid of the big d's, so
Speaker 1: it's like, please don't say the D word. And then
Speaker 1: he said it. I was like, okay, okay, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: It was attached to somebody else in my building, So
Speaker 1: you know, I totally moved. I was like Nope, nope,
Speaker 1: we're done. I don't need to stay in as an
Speaker 1: art building. There's some weird juju here. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I don't want to, but
Speaker 1: I'm out, and so I moved away and it's much better. Wow,
Speaker 1: talking that, I gotta go back and find that Twitter
Speaker 1: threat about that. I totally missed that. I don't think
Speaker 1: I saw that at all, But that is um, that's
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's not it to me. Well, it's actually
Speaker 1: it was weird. It's one of those things where you're like,
Speaker 1: am I going crazy? You know? And somebody else you know.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've met anybody in
Speaker 1: my life who hasn't had some experience that they cannot explain,
Speaker 1: something like a like a dream that was a premonition,
Speaker 1: or just something like everybody has something, right, So I
Speaker 1: think it's you have to be like an incredibly weirdly
Speaker 1: arrogant person to think I know everything there is to
Speaker 1: know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like sciences
Speaker 1: discovered everything, and human beings can see and hear everything.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who actually believes that, even the
Speaker 1: biggest skeptics are like, well, I mean, look, you don't
Speaker 1: know which happens after you die, so there's always an unknown, right,
Speaker 1: there's always the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, like I said,
Speaker 1: maybe an hundred years, science will will figure out it's
Speaker 1: a dimensional thing. I don't know. I have no idea,
Speaker 1: but right look, science tell has told us that there
Speaker 1: are dimensions. We know there's different dimensions. And just recently
Speaker 1: did you see that the report that came out of
Speaker 1: like the Pentagon where they were like navy air like
Speaker 1: navy uh pilots. That confirms he Look, there is something
Speaker 1: out there, and that's why I'm talking to you. That's
Speaker 1: why we're doing the show. Here's something we are. The
Speaker 1: universe is vast. We don't know what's out there like
Speaker 1: or or what's in our closet and under our beds.
Speaker 1: It's it's your arrogance. Yeah all right, well I should
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap up here, but
Speaker 1: I want um, I want folks to know how they
Speaker 1: can find you online if they want to continue to
Speaker 1: follow your your your adventures in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah,
Speaker 1: once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh drama d r
Speaker 1: R drama. That's three rs D R R R A
Speaker 1: M I N A has been little dramatic. Um, I
Speaker 1: will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird stuff,
Speaker 1: you know, because, uh, you know, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: judge somebody else for believing in it. And that's one
Speaker 1: of the things that I want to include in the
Speaker 1: second book is I, if you love crystals, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: I personally don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them.
Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna did I lose you? Sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna make fun of anybody for having a belief
Speaker 1: like that, you know. Um. So to me, like I,
Speaker 1: I love tarot cards because they are weirdly, my chick.
Speaker 1: I have a terrat deck that I use and they're
Speaker 1: um and even my friends and my sister are like this.
Speaker 1: These are ridiculously apt and kind of really almost have
Speaker 1: a sense of humor about situations. And so the more
Speaker 1: I've used them, the more I'm like, ah, this is
Speaker 1: getting weird, you know. So like the whole COVID, Like
Speaker 1: I predicted somebody having COVID in our family and I didn't,
Speaker 1: you know, realize what it was until after and my
Speaker 1: sister mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, well, you're right. I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be somebody else and that you know, it ended up
Speaker 1: being this one person in our family. So there's there
Speaker 1: are things that have come true that I'm like, No,
Speaker 1: that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do? I
Speaker 1: think I'm gonna that that you the veil for some
Speaker 1: people as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner
Speaker 1: between between what we can see and what we can't see.
Speaker 1: And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually
Speaker 1: really interested to see continue to talk to me about
Speaker 1: this um offline and about like as you continue to
Speaker 1: research a jin stuff because you know, I'm neck deep, man,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole
Speaker 1: you can believe. So I think it's gonna be a
Speaker 1: fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think as long as we approach it without
Speaker 1: fear and just more of like I want to learn,
Speaker 1: I think that's the right approach. Thanks for joining us
Speaker 1: this week. You can find out more about Amina's work,
Speaker 1: her amazing book, Fashion Victim, and everything else she's working
Speaker 1: on by going to her website. It's Amina After That's
Speaker 1: spelled a M I N A A k h t
Speaker 1: A R dot work, and like she said, you can
Speaker 1: follow her on Twitter. Her handle is at D three
Speaker 1: rs d r r R and then her first name,
Speaker 1: Amina d r r R Amina Drameda. Love it. I
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
Speaker 1: Now there are as many people in the world with
Speaker 1: jin stories as there are gin, so if you have
Speaker 1: one you'd like to share, make sure to email it
Speaker 1: to me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: That's the Hidden Gin. Th h E H I D
Speaker 1: d N d j I n n at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: And until next time, remember we are not alone. The
Speaker 1: Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and
Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written
Speaker 1: and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins
Speaker 1: and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartetz.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.