WEBVTT - Fashionably Haunted 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.080 Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:30.520 Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.120 welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.159 The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.479 people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.800 are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:49.480 from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.040 and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.840 how and why this series came about in a very 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:00.680 personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:06.320 Would you believe it if I told you there is 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.520 a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.280 the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:18.000 until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.320 is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:24.679 She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times, 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:27.479 New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.399 The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications, 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.720 including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine, 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.720 and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.120 H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:45.000 in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.400 writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.000 from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:58.240 a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim, 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.760 which was her first novel published a couple of years ago. 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:03.480 We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:06.160 I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.360 generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning, 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.679 because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona, 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.560 we did have some connection issues here and there, so 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:18.760 the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:21.160 quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:24.040 sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:26.160 had a lot of laughs, and also I got some 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.040 genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:35.320 with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:39.040 this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.040 to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.880 about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.640 and I've told them a little bit about your first 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.160 book now, um, but I want you to tell them 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.079 more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean, 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.560 it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right, 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:59.080 I mean it was, Um it was one of the 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:04.040 best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.160 it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.960 page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:14.760 for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you, 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:18.400 thank you. It was when I left the fashion world, 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:22.960 I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:26.480 have a serial killer set in the fashion world and 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.600 no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.600 So that was kind of the idea of it. And 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.520 then I just I have to I have to ask 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:38.240 you were you were you thinking about se real killing 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.600 like people in the industries that will happen to like 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.560 made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:49.200 was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:54.240 to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.800 definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.760 you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:02.600 a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.520 haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:05.720 get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.560 I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break. 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:09.520 But let me ask you. Were you a writer before 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:12.280 this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah? 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:15.520 I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer, 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.159 so mostly I did like blog writing for like like 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.159 New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.279 would you know, edit and right on there. And I 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.760 would write for l and edit for them. So, you know, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.719 like all of places I've I've worked, I was always 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.680 editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.360 as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh, 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.320 though those people get M F A S and IOWA 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.760 and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well, 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:45.560 why don't I just write this and see what happens 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.839 and we'll go from there. And you know kind of 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.440 what I did. Well, I mean that says and and 0:04:51.680 --> 0:04:58.599 uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:00.640 but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:04.960 next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um, 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:08.279 After after New York and that in the fashion world, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:12.159 I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives, 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.800 and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.039 insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.440 it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.720 beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.800 not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.680 you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know, 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.880 I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.839 follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:42.800 wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:47.920 in a nat Geo special. I live on the side 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.120 of a mountain and I have a well and there's 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.640 a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a 0:05:55.680 --> 0:06:00.000 really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:04.760 very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:07.640 And it's just a complete one eat from my life 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:11.600 in New York, like completely, and and why did you 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.120 decide to do that? It was it was it just 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.159 to be closer to your father, or you just needed 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:22.600 like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.200 New York for over twenty years, and I I was 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.120 birked out, you know, I just I hit that point 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.560 where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.840 was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.640 my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself, 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:36.760 and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought, 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:38.760 you know, this is a really good time for me 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:40.720 to be out there, so we can keep an eye 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.760 on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.679 pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.120 your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad. 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.760 But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.000 when I started following you or why. I know, I 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.560 was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:01.640 point in I don't know, but I feel like I 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.080 sort of following you because you tweeted something about a 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:10.760 gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:14.160 so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.280 us about a little bout your second book without giving 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:21.480 it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.680 and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.600 the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:32.800 follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.080 one who happens to be this and she's had a 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:40.040 very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.280 her you know, her family was just weird. And I 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.240 feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.840 about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from, 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.280 you know, And it's really about like finding your place 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.600 and finding your people. And at the same time, of course, 0:07:54.600 --> 0:07:57.800 there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:00.840 in books. Um, It's a really right way to get 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:06.120 your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:07.960 just so it's following all these women and you're trying 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:10.080 to figure out who to murder. It is so you know, 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:14.280 all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.480 up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:20.600 the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:28.840 working on now. But there is thank you Well The 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.520 Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.320 one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.560 it is is it it's this woman who um has 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.720 a gin and she didn't know it, and so she 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.920 makes this wish when she's five and you know, her 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.680 birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:49.839 wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:55.080 Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:59.240 that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older, 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.400 she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:07.400 are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:10.080 at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.800 because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.000 all over the world who are dying like car accidents, 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.680 they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three 0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:21.240 or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:24.880 my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.040 now has to try to figure out how to how 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.480 to make this stop and how she can be the 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.760 best her and so that's the whole book. And like 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:34.240 you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy, 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:37.360 you know, So that's that's the idea for that next 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.760 one that actually started you know what, I want to 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.240 read all the books. They all sound So that's just 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.240 a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.200 were doing like you're like starting to do like some 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.600 real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know, 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.839 the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.000 the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.000 research for your book. But we grew up also around 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.000 on all this, and I want to talk about that. 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.439 So where's your family from, by the way, I feel 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.960 like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore. 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:11.480 I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right, 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.840 was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.679 and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.760 it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:24.720 but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:28.160 family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah, 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:33.280 my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my 0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:37.160 dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:42.600 lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay, 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.240 So let's start there, because I want to know, Like 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.400 in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:52.600 a thing that like we're just kind of like like 0:10:52.720 --> 0:10:54.959 very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:59.559 got together and then they stop stories or no, they 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.679 were like time stories, like my dad would like tell 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.800 us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.440 the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.680 a village, and you know when he grew up, and 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:12.480 you know, he was born in the thirties, it was 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.360 a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.800 He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.480 kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:25.240 had there was a one room. So his great grandfather, 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:31.800 uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay, 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.599 I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:40.520 gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.480 his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:44.640 might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:49.720 basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.120 was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.920 father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.000 He was supposed to be passed down when his great 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.520 grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.840 think his sons were able to deal with this. So 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:09.959 when you say that he had as yeah, when you 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.560 say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay, 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.360 I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.520 only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:22.720 there anybody else? Or did you he just go to 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.880 a classroom and it was like him in an empty room? 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:28.559 And that's the big is are they? I think I 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.640 was just like in their house and there were two 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:35.040 male jin that would come and they would do favors 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.360 for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um, 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.199 Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet, 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.280 a new wallet would just show up. Or if they 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:47.080 were out of butter, butter would just show up outside 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:50.720 their door. So it was really strange. And my father 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:53.559 grew up with this in that there was one room 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.200 in the house no one could go into. They went 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.960 into that and I always, as a child, I thought 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.520 he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:05.079 quite that it was a gin until like later in life, 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:07.400 and I was like, I put it all together, and 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.079 the only person would go into that room was my father, 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:13.240 and so he would keep his toys in there so 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:18.000 nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became, 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.600 you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:23.640 so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.360 the family had permission to go in that room, and 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:29.319 his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.680 down but for but your father had some kind of definity, 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.520 some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:41.440 connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it. 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.960 So I would say, like twenty years ago he would 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:47.679 have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know. 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.319 He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.560 what they are, what happens, But that was part of 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.240 my childhood and so that's what he says to me. 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.800 And so and he has a lot of stories of 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.400 other people in the family dealing with the gin. And 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:07.440 his mother used to um, who he says I remind 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.959 him of, which is a little scary because she used 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.960 to talk to the dead um and she always had 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:17.080 these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen, 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.040 I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.160 people as far as I know. And so it's like 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:27.120 the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.720 lack of a better word, UM. So he for him, 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.880 this was really normal and natural, and then you know, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.560 you come to America and it's not. So I think 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:42.400 he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.640 stop believing or did he just And I also know 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.600 your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist? 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:54.600 He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.360 he's really like you know, you know this, he's you 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.880 gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.760 So he came to the US as an engineer actually 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.480 and then became and then went to medical school after 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:08.360 we were all born because he realized they're gonna be 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:13.840 expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.200 I asked him, like, you know why, like does that 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.520 impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.880 like an insanity thing or is it real? And he 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.400 honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:27.080 to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:29.440 answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.840 a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:34.800 ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.600 the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like, 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.800 what are what are some of the experiences that you 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:42.920 can share with us that he had that he he 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:49.520 cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well, 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.320 I think a lot of it is his. Um, well, 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.600 I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um. 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.640 But the the story in our family, and I know 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:02.360 every family has their own stories about gin. So that's 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.080 why it's a little difficult to get like research because 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.920 everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.320 to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course. 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.640 And so I asked myself, well, who has them then? 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.960 Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:21.120 they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me. 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:24.400 I want to hang out with them. I want to 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:27.280 I just want to see what they are and um. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:31.000 Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.760 on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic, 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:41.160 a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.080 way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh, 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.800 this is my things healer or this is nice psychic 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:48.680 medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.960 thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:53.800 big part of the fashion world, which I don't think 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.960 people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.360 in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.960 girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:06.800 to see what she's about, you know, like why not, 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.479 and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.639 of it, just find it and tell me where it 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.160 might be. So I go see her and I explained 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.040 to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for. 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.240 And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.119 your culture, but let's just see she does all these things, 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:26.560 like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever, 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.600 all of it, you know, and it's like it's in 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.159 a small like treatment room, but you know, she like 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:33.960 there's enough space where she can be against the wall 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:35.679 and can't come near me, you know what I mean, 0:17:35.720 --> 0:17:39.760 Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.520 at one point she started doing something and I swear 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.640 to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:52.479 not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:54.880 is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.520 something on me and I can't breathe and the woman 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.520 is across the room, so it's not her. And she 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.280 starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.520 And I was just like, you have to say, whatever 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.479 you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.159 don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it. 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:16.439 It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:23.840 I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.320 the weird thing was is I used to and this 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.080 is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.199 feel like there was something around and like I'm on 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:37.280 the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.760 fine because there's something near me and I can't explain 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.320 it more than that. But after I went to that lady, 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:46.320 that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:49.520 because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.159 gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.399 it is, but there's something here. But did you always 0:18:53.440 --> 0:19:00.000 have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh, 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.399 I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.800 an adult. But you know, are like my dad would 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.439 you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.080 we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff. 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:18.240 So we were always really I don't want to say 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.919 like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept, 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:26.320 but you know, more in tune with that part of life, 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:27.880 Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah, 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:29.600 I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.200 read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:37.000 about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.879 But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know, 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:46.040 be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks, 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.880 is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army? 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.000 Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.679 do things? And I do not have an answer to 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.879 that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:04.680 valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that. 0:20:04.760 --> 0:20:08.960 I've thought about that, um and and my my my 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:12.720 conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know, 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.360 he was the only one who was able to really 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.280 control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that, 0:20:17.359 --> 0:20:21.240 you know, people are scared because I think what happens 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:25.560 for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for 0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.960 whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.320 if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:33.200 we also have to accept the fact that we can't 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:35.680 really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:39.000 we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.480 then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well, 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.680 let me ask you, and I think some some yes, 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:49.720 go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.320 think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.600 Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:59.639 part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.600 that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.000 family and they need to be recognized and you know, 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.800 honored in that way. So that's the way I see 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:09.560 it as opposed to like I want to summon a 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.960 genie or something you know, we'll be right back after 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:17.800 the short break. So you said, Um, you told me 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.800 earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.920 can you explain at least how you understand the connection 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:27.640 between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.679 is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.000 a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.879 Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is 0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:40.760 a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.000 can you explain to me what you how you understand 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:48.840 the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:52.919 probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um. 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.399 And like my mother was, but you know she she's 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.680 as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad, 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:05.879 it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.800 and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:12.160 going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:16.880 times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um, 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.040 and I that's how I feel about things. You know, 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:25.479 I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:27.240 religion and you know, I just think that if you 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:32.000 have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind 0:22:32.040 --> 0:22:35.439