1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to The Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Hi, and 3 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: welcome to this very special bonus series of The Hidden Gin. 4 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: The interviews. In these episodes, you'll hear me talk to 5 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: people from all walks of life who have had GIN experiences, 6 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: are drawn to the stories of Gin, and draw lessons 7 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 1: from these stories. You'll hear from artists, scholars, writers, journalists, 8 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: and Gin exorcists, and even from me as I discuss 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: how and why this series came about in a very 10 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: personal conversation with my husband. Thanks for listening and enjoy. 11 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: Would you believe it if I told you there is 12 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: a deep and abiding connection between the fashion world and 13 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: the supernatural? Well, you might not, because I didn't, not 14 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: until I spoke to today's guest, Amana there Now Almana 15 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: is a former fashion writer and editor and a total fashionista. 16 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: She's worked at Vogue, l Style, the New York Times, 17 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: New York Magazine, where she was a founding editor of 18 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: The Cut blog. She's written for a whole lot of publications, 19 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: including Yahoo Style, Fashionista, x O Jay, Refinery twenty nine, 20 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: and for big fashion brands like berged Off, Goodman and 21 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: H and M's Ten Years of Style volume. After toiling 22 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: in the fashion ranks for over fifteen years, she now 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: writes full time in the desert mountains, where she's detoxing 24 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: from her once glamorous life, and she's the author of 25 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: a fantastic, hilarious, dark serial killer comedy called Fashion Victim, 26 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: which was her first novel published a couple of years ago. 27 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: We had a lot of fun in today's conversation, and 28 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: I learned a lot about the fashion industry and Almona's 29 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: generational ties to GIN. But just a little word of warning, 30 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: because Almina is out in the rugged wilderness of Arizona, 31 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: we did have some connection issues here and there, so 32 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: the audio might sound a little bit spotty and not 33 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: quite as crystal clear as I would have wished, So 34 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: sorry about that. But still, we had a fantastic conversation, 35 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: had a lot of laughs, and also I got some 36 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: genuinely scary chills. So check it out yourself. My interview 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: with author Almanna the Hi. Almanna, thanks for joining us 38 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: this week. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk 39 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: to you. Well, so I've told our listeners um all 40 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: about your background that you're a former fashion writer editor, 41 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: and I've told them a little bit about your first 42 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: book now, um, but I want you to tell them 43 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: more about your first book, because, first of all, I mean, 44 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: it's your first novel and it's got some high praise, right, 45 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean it was, Um it was one of the 46 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: best crime in Miss three debuts by Crime Reads. Uh 47 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: it's I mean, like I saw like a whole half 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: page of all kinds of accolades, which is amazing really 49 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: for a first book. So congratulations on that, Thank you, 50 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: thank you. It was when I left the fashion world, 51 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: I had this idea, I wouldn't it be funny to 52 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 1: have a serial killer set in the fashion world and 53 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: no one takes her seriously or believe she's the killer. 54 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: So that was kind of the idea of it. And 55 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: then I just I have to I have to ask 56 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: you were you were you thinking about se real killing 57 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: like people in the industries that will happen to like 58 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: made you write this book? Oh my god, listen, it 59 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: was fifteen years of being on a diet, like having 60 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: to wear high heels. Yes, yes, absolutely, that's tough. There's 61 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: definitely people I kept in mind. Yeah, yeah, we were 62 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: you really fun to write. You know, it sounds like 63 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: a really fun read. I have ordered it, but I 64 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: haven't read it yet. Um, so I can't wait to 65 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: get into it. It It sounds like the kind of thing 66 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take like the next time I take a break. 67 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: But let me ask you. Were you a writer before 68 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: this or you just kind of went right into it? Yeah? 69 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: I mean I was. I was an editor slash writer, 70 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: so mostly I did like blog writing for like like 71 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: New York Magazine. I launched the Cut blog and I 72 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,279 Speaker 1: would you know, edit and right on there. And I 73 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: would write for l and edit for them. So, you know, 74 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: like all of places I've I've worked, I was always 75 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: editing and writing. Um. But I never thought of myself 76 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: as a novelist. I think, like you know, you you think, oh, 77 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: though those people get M F A S and IOWA 78 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: and stuff, and I didn't do that. But then I thought, well, 79 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: why don't I just write this and see what happens 80 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: and we'll go from there. And you know kind of 81 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: what I did. Well, I mean that says and and 82 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 1: uh Fashion Victim was published one ten Yeah right, And 83 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: but you're working on as sending. I'm working on the 84 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: next book. So I'm working on a second book. So, Um, 85 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: After after New York and that in the fashion world, 86 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: I moved to near Sedona, Arizona, where my father lives, 87 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: and I decided I wanted to kind of capture the 88 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: insane weirdness that is hear Um. And so that's the 89 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird cookie place. I mean, stunningly 90 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: beautiful because people are a little weird. You know, I'm 91 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: not gonna lie. It's like crystals mixed with maga hats, 92 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: you know. And you're it's a bizarre place. Well, you know, 93 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: I follow you on Twitter and I follow your I 94 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: follow your posts on Twitter where you're documenting all the 95 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: wildlife and I'm like, oh my gosh, she's living like 96 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: in a nat Geo special. I live on the side 97 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: of a mountain and I have a well and there's 98 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: a tarantula that hangs outside the front door. He's a 99 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: really big guy. So he's a big guy. But they're 100 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: very friendly and like not friendly, but they don't bother humans. Um. 101 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: And it's just a complete one eat from my life 102 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: in New York, like completely, and and why did you 103 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: decide to do that? It was it was it just 104 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: to be closer to your father, or you just needed 105 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: like a cleanse. Yeah, well that's actually I've been in 106 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: New York for over twenty years, and I I was 107 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: birked out, you know, I just I hit that point 108 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: where I didn't want to leave my apartment and I 109 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: was like, you know this, this is not healthy. And 110 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: my mom had passed away and my dad was by himself, 111 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: and you know, he's in his eighties. So I thought, 112 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, this is a really good time for me 113 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: to be out there, so we can keep an eye 114 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: on him, make sure he's taken care of. And it's 115 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 1: pretty fun, a little weird, but fun. I love following 116 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: your when you put tweet about your interactions with your dad. 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: But I'm trying to remember, and I can't quite remember 118 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: when I started following you or why. I know, I 119 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: was looking for South Asian writers to follow at some 120 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: point in I don't know, but I feel like I 121 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: sort of following you because you tweeted something about a 122 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: gin um, which trobably did you probably did right, And 123 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: so your second book as stood, I mean, tell tell 124 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: us about a little bout your second book without giving 125 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: it all away. So the second book is called Kissmith 126 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: and hopefully and I'm still finishing it and dealing with 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: the publishing world and getting it published. But um, it 128 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: follows different women who are here in Sedona, and also 129 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: one who happens to be this and she's had a 130 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: very strange upbringing. Um, not because she's this, but because 131 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: her you know, her family was just weird. And I 132 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: feel like that's an important thing. It's like, this is 133 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: about everyone's family can be weird, regardless of where they're from, 134 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: you know, And it's really about like finding your place 135 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: and finding your people. And at the same time, of course, 136 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: there's a serial killer because I really enjoy killing people 137 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: in books. Um, It's a really right way to get 138 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: your anger and annoyance, how you know. So it's really 139 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: just so it's following all these women and you're trying 140 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: to figure out who to murder. It is so you know, 141 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: all these like scam artists, fake healers are are turning 142 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: up dead in the desert, and so it's like, who's 143 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: the killer, what's happening? Um, So that's when I'm I'm 144 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: working on now. But there is thank you Well The 145 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: Gin is gonna be my next book, um, and that 146 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: one I'm I'm still hammering out the idea. But what 147 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: it is is it it's this woman who um has 148 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: a gin and she didn't know it, and so she 149 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: makes this wish when she's five and you know, her 150 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: birthday to be and her name is Dunia Um. She 151 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:49,839 Speaker 1: wants to be the best Dunia in the world, and 152 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: Dunia means world. So she what she doesn't realize is 153 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: that she's basically made this wish. And as she gets older, 154 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: she starts getting a Google alerts for other Dunias who 155 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: are dying all over the world in random, bizarre, not 156 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,080 Speaker 1: at all seemingly related ways. And that came to me 157 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: because I've been getting Google alerts for Almanna up theres 158 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: all over the world who are dying like car accidents, 159 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: they have been shootings, and it's I've had like three 160 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: or four and it's so surreal where you're like, oh 161 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: my god, I'm sorry, other me like wow. So she 162 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: now has to try to figure out how to how 163 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: to make this stop and how she can be the 164 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: best her and so that's the whole book. And like 165 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: you know, is she also everyone thinks she's going crazy, 166 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, So that's that's the idea for that next 167 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: one that actually started you know what, I want to 168 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: read all the books. They all sound So that's just 169 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: a fantastic idea. And I know you told me you 170 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: were doing like you're like starting to do like some 171 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 1: real research on jin stuff, but you don't really you know, 172 00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: the research is like you know, I'm doing. I did 173 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 1: the research obviously for my series. You're gonna do the 174 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: research for your book. But we grew up also around 175 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: on all this, and I want to talk about that. 176 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: So where's your family from, by the way, I feel 177 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: like we all have. Oh, so, my my father from Lahore. 178 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: I mean he was from India, but you know after partitioning, right, 179 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: was mostly in Lahore. And my mother was from India 180 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: and then she was in because a very small village. Yeah, 181 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: it used to be small. It used to be small. Yeah, 182 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: but they're basically in the northern Punjab region. Yeah. My 183 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: family is from the similar region, same place. Yeah. Yeah, 184 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: my dad's Punjabi. My mother's is a Baton and my 185 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: dad's had the family SOUPI So okay, that's where a 186 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: lot of the strangeness has come in into our family. Okay, 187 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: So let's start there, because I want to know, Like 188 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: in so in your family growing up, we're jin stories 189 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: a thing that like we're just kind of like like 190 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,959 Speaker 1: very common. Was it the kind of thing where kids 191 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: got together and then they stop stories or no, they 192 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,679 Speaker 1: were like time stories, like my dad would like tell 193 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: us these stories about this. Um. He would tell us 194 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 1: the craziest bedtime stories like this. He grew up in 195 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: a village, and you know when he grew up, and 196 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: you know, he was born in the thirties, it was 197 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: a little different. Didn't necessarily grow up with his parents. 198 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: He grew up with other relatives. You know, it's just 199 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: kind of loosey goosey, I guess back then. And he 200 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: had there was a one room. So his great grandfather, 201 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: uh was a muffie and he would teach to jin Okay, Okay, 202 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop right there, all right, Okay, Well I 203 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: gotta back this up. Okay, So you said you said 204 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: his grandfather was a muffy and for for people who 205 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: might not be familiar with the terminology, and mufti is 206 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: basically like a religious teacher, right yeah. Yeah, And it 207 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: was his great grandfather. But that's important because his grand 208 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: father's his great grand his grandfather's didn't get the gin. 209 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: He was supposed to be passed down when his great 210 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: grandfather died, and he didn't do that because he didn't 211 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: think his sons were able to deal with this. So 212 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: when you say that he had as yeah, when you 213 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: say he had a school of gin that he taught, Okay, 214 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I gotta ask this question. Was he the 215 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: only one who could see that's the classroom? Because was 216 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: there anybody else? Or did you he just go to 217 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: a classroom and it was like him in an empty room? 218 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: And that's the big is are they? I think I 219 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: was just like in their house and there were two 220 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: male jin that would come and they would do favors 221 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: for my grand my great my dad's great grandfather. Um, 222 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: Like if he went and he couldn't find his wallet, 223 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: a new wallet would just show up. Or if they 224 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: were out of butter, butter would just show up outside 225 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: their door. So it was really strange. And my father 226 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: grew up with this in that there was one room 227 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: in the house no one could go into. They went 228 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: into that and I always, as a child, I thought 229 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: he meant it was a pulper guy. I didn't understand 230 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: quite that it was a gin until like later in life, 231 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, I put it all together, and 232 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: the only person would go into that room was my father, 233 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: and so he would keep his toys in there so 234 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: nobody would invest with them. And that's how he became, 235 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: you know, sorry to know the gin himself. So okay, 236 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: so that room, you're saying, nobody in the else in 237 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: the family had permission to go in that room, and 238 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: his great grandfather decided, I'm not gonna pass these gin 239 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: down but for but your father had some kind of definity, 240 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: some affinity or ability or openness that allowed him to 241 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: connect with them. He does, but he but he denies it. 242 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: So I would say, like twenty years ago he would 243 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,679 Speaker 1: have been more open, but now he's like, I don't know. 244 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: He honestly, it's like, I have no idea what what 245 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: what they are, what happens, But that was part of 246 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: my childhood and so that's what he says to me. 247 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: And so and he has a lot of stories of 248 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: other people in the family dealing with the gin. And 249 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: his mother used to um, who he says I remind 250 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: him of, which is a little scary because she used 251 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: to talk to the dead um and she always had 252 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,080 Speaker 1: these horrible headaches, and she would be, I know, I listen, 253 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: I have the headaches, but I'm not talking to dead 254 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: people as far as I know. And so it's like 255 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: the whole family had these weird talents, let's say, for 256 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: lack of a better word, UM. So he for him, 257 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: this was really normal and natural, and then you know, 258 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: you come to America and it's not. So I think 259 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: he just sort of stopped believing. Oh did he actually 260 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: stop believing or did he just And I also know 261 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: your father, your father, is he a psychologist or a psychiatrist? 262 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: He's a he was a psychiatrist. Um. And you know 263 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: he's really like you know, you know this, he's you 264 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: gotta be an engineer, lawyer, or a doctor, as you know. 265 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: So he came to the US as an engineer actually 266 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: and then became and then went to medical school after 267 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: we were all born because he realized they're gonna be 268 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: expensive kids. So he became a shrink. And and sometimes 269 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:17,200 Speaker 1: I asked him, like, you know why, like does that 270 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: impact how you're viewing things? Do you think it was 271 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: like an insanity thing or is it real? And he 272 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: honestly doesn't doesn't know, like he doesn't have the answer 273 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: to it, and I don't think anyone actually has the 274 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: answer to that. Well, let me ask you for such 275 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: a part of our Yeah, well, let yeah, let me 276 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: ask you this. Um. When you say he doesn't have 277 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: the answer, I guess my my question is to what question? Like, 278 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: what are what are some of the experiences that you 279 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: can share with us that he had that he he 280 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: cannot has not been able to answer explain. Um. I think, well, 281 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is his. Um, well, 282 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: I had an experience that he hasn't been able to explain. Um. 283 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: But the the story in our family, and I know 284 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: every family has their own stories about gin. So that's 285 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: why it's a little difficult to get like research because 286 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: everyone's stories are different. Um is that the they're supposed 287 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: to pass on our bloodline and to a man of course. 288 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: And so I asked myself, well, who has them then? 289 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: Like right now, who has the chin? Because let's be real, 290 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: they're gonna need anyone to be come in to me. 291 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: I want to hang out with them. I want to 292 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: I just want to see what they are and um. 293 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: Once so in the fashion world, you and I touched 294 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: on this in my fashion book everyone has a psychic, 295 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: a terror reader, astrologers really just really no fashion world, yes, 296 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: way totally. Like you go to dinner and they're like, oh, 297 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: this is my things healer or this is nice psychic 298 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: medium and I'm like, how nice to meet you. Great 299 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: thanks people, you know. So it's all it's really a 300 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: big part of the fashion world, which I don't think 301 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: people talk about enough. And there was this one shaman 302 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: in in New York, in Tribeca who all the fashion 303 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: girls were going to. And I thought, well, I want 304 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: to see what she's about, you know, like why not, 305 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:10,479 Speaker 1: and maybe she can find this gin, not get rid 306 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,639 Speaker 1: of it, just find it and tell me where it 307 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: might be. So I go see her and I explained 308 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: to her that, you know, this is what I'm looking for. 309 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: And she's like, okay, well, I don't know much about 310 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: your culture, but let's just see she does all these things, 311 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: like she's spinning on me and you know, rouble whatever, 312 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: all of it, you know, and it's like it's in 313 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: a small like treatment room, but you know, she like 314 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: there's enough space where she can be against the wall 315 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: and can't come near me, you know what I mean, 316 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: Like there's like enough it's about like ten ft. So 317 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,520 Speaker 1: at one point she started doing something and I swear 318 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: to god, something started sitting on my chest. And I'm 319 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:52,479 Speaker 1: not prone to hallucinations, so I was like, oh, this 320 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,880 Speaker 1: is really uncomfortable and weird, like I feel like there's 321 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: something on me and I can't breathe and the woman 322 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: is across the room, so it's not her. And she 323 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: starts screaming because she said something's trying to choke her. 324 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: And I was just like, you have to say, whatever 325 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,479 Speaker 1: you did, you just kissed something off, just stop, just 326 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: don't do anymore. She's like, I'm getting rid of it. 327 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 1: It's like, don't get rid of it. Just got goose bumps. 328 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: I So then, how did that end? What happened anything? Well, 329 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: the weird thing was is I used to and this 330 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: is people are gonna thinking crazy. I used to always 331 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: feel like there was something around and like I'm on 332 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: the subway later at night, but I know I'm I'm 333 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: fine because there's something near me and I can't explain 334 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: it more than that. But after I went to that lady, 335 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: that feeling was gone. And that was a weird sensation 336 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: because I've gotten so used to feeling like oh, I'm 337 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,159 Speaker 1: gonna be fine because there's some I don't know what 338 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 1: it is, but there's something here. But did you always 339 00:18:53,440 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: have that feeling? Did you grow up with that feeling? Yeah? Uh, 340 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: I don't think I recognize that feeling until I was 341 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: an adult. But you know, are like my dad would 342 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: you know. He would make us watch The Exorcist when 343 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: we were children and buy us crazy magic books and stuff. 344 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: So we were always really I don't want to say 345 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: like not witchy because that's more of a Western concept, 346 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: but you know, more in tune with that part of life, 347 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:27,880 Speaker 1: Like it was just normal. Why I'd be like, yeah, 348 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: I want this voodoo book and he's like, okay, here, 349 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:32,200 Speaker 1: read it, you know, and I'd be like ted reading 350 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: about voodoo and it was just so normal for us. Um. 351 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: But he himself has gotten to the point where, you know, 352 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: be he he's not scared of other realms, but he thinks, 353 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: is if jin are real, why isn't there a Jin army? 354 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Why aren't Why isn't anyone like raising them up to 355 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: do things? And I do not have an answer to 356 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,879 Speaker 1: that question. You know, It's like it's like it's a 357 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,680 Speaker 1: valid question. I don't know I've actually thought about that. 358 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: I've thought about that, um and and my my my 359 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: conclusion is because nobody has Solomon's ring anymore, so you know, 360 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,360 Speaker 1: he was the only one who was able to really 361 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: control the Jin. Yeah. Maybe, but I also think that, 362 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: you know, people are scared because I think what happens 363 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: for people who actually, um want to summon Gin for 364 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: whatever reason or contact Jin. We all know that if 365 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: if we believe in Jin, if this is like a thing, 366 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: we also have to accept the fact that we can't 367 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: really control them. Maybe we could bargain with them, maybe 368 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: we could ask them to do ourselves. Yeah, and so 369 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: then maybe there's that they can do whatever they want. Yeah, well, 370 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: let me ask you, and I think some some yes, 371 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: go ahead that some members on my mom's side, I 372 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: think that Jin are evil and they're scared of them. 373 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: Whereas I kind of see it as well, they were 374 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: part of our family. So you know, regardless of whether 375 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: that they're they're bad, they're they're still part of our 376 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: family and they need to be recognized and you know, 377 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: honored in that way. So that's the way I see 378 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: it as opposed to like I want to summon a 379 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: genie or something you know, we'll be right back after 380 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: the short break. So you said, Um, you told me 381 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: earlier that your father is a Sufi, and can you, like, 382 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: can you explain at least how you understand the connection 383 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: between like that kind of system like a Sufi, which 384 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: is and for folks aren't familiar, it's kind of like 385 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: a it's like a mystical I'm some people think of 386 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 1: Sufi's mystics, but it's not really, but it's it is 387 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: a more spiritual, mystical approach to religion. Um. Yeah, so 388 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: can you explain to me what you how you understand 389 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: the connection between that and yeah, yes, and I'll be 390 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 1: probably honest. We were never the most religious family. Um. 391 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: And like my mother was, but you know she she's 392 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 1: as typical Bakistani as you could get. But for my dad, 393 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: it was always about a spiritual connection with God. And 394 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: and it's a personal connection. So it's not about necessarily 395 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: going to a mosue, and it's not necessarily praying five 396 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: times a day, but it was about just having that connection. Um, 397 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: and I that's how I feel about things. You know, 398 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,479 Speaker 1: I'm spiritual. I don't know what religion is the right 399 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: religion and you know, I just think that if you 400 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: have this connection personally, that's great. Um. So we kind 401 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: of grew up not being as as Muslim as we 402 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: could have, you know, like my cousins on my mom's 403 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: side who grew up in the US, we're much more 404 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: religious than we were. Um, but my dad would drop 405 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: these weird stories on us. Like, Okay, I was four 406 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: and I watched the Exorcist because again, my dad's funny 407 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: that way, and my older brother was like, well, I'm 408 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: gonna it's a true story. And so you know, for 409 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: yr oldly mind is blown. You know, I'm like, oh 410 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: my god, my sister's gonna get possessed. I'm gonna have 411 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: to share a room in the Puzuzu holy cow, totally panicking. 412 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: And my dad says, it's okay, I know how to 413 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:20,959 Speaker 1: do exorcisms, and he was dead serious. It was just like, oh, 414 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: that was a weird thing to say to a four 415 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: year old, And as a four year old, you actually 416 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 1: remember it, you remember that it's stuck with you. Yes, 417 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: because I was so scared. I was terrified that my 418 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: sister would become possessed because we shared a room and 419 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 1: I would sleepwalk, and in my sleepwalking I would be 420 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: watching her in my sleep, like literally standing by her bed, 421 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:47,439 Speaker 1: watching her to make sure she wouldn't. It was creepy. 422 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: We were a creepy family. So what about your siblings? 423 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: Did your siblings have your siblings have unexplained experiences like you? Um, no, 424 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: they're they're more hesitant to dive into things. Um Like, 425 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,959 Speaker 1: my brother keeps telling me, don't, don't mess with us, 426 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: don't and I's like, you know, I'm just reading about it, 427 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 1: and because I find it interesting, you know, because I 428 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 1: think being in the West, you are, you know, in 429 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: the US, you're surrounded by the superstitions and and and 430 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: the mysticism that we have here, which is you know, 431 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: witches and a Native Americans and druids and whatever. But 432 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: what's laughing at our stories? And so I for me, 433 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to dive into this and and and 434 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: find these stories because it's like, oh, well this makes 435 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: sense to me and this is a part of who 436 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: I am. And it's just I don't know, it's a 437 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: weird way to feel more complete, I would say, but 438 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: my brother and sister don't. Although I think my sister 439 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: has a ghost, but you know it, Okay, Why why 440 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: do you think your sister has a ghost. I'm sorry, 441 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: I gotta follow that up. So my I threw, I've 442 00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: seen a feason on my niece. And my nieces is 443 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: three and adorable, adorable kids, and she told my sister 444 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: that there's a man over there and she's talking to 445 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: and so my sister said, oh, well, is it a 446 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: good person? And she said no, And so we were like, well, 447 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: maybe that's just her being a little a little weird. 448 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 1: But then my sister keeps waking up in the middle 449 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: of the night hearing somebody call mom and it's not 450 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 1: her kids. And sometimes she's awake when it happens, because 451 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: I was like, maybe you're dreaming. Maybe it's sleep paralysis, 452 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, what are the Maybe it's your neighbors, Maybe 453 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: it's a cat outside making a weird noise. We've gone 454 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: through all of the possibilities. And so she would just 455 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 1: wake up and hear someone saying Mom, or she'll be 456 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: you know, reading a book and somebody else mom, and 457 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: it's not kids at all. So it's been a little weird. Yeah, 458 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: that's actually terrifying to me. I'm terrified. So I know, 459 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,120 Speaker 1: I know, I mean, I've been in that health Yeah, 460 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: so I said, I've been in her own some I 461 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: didn't sends anything off? But never know? Is she also 462 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: does she also live in where you are right now 463 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: out in Arizona? No, she lives in Port Worth? Okay, 464 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: do you think that maybe let me as see this Texan? Yeah? 465 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: What what? What? How do you feel about? Like? Um? 466 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: The difference between like the regions? I mean, are people 467 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: moren't likely to encounter like gin or have these kind 468 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: of experiences in a place like New York or a 469 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: place like where you are now, which is remote and 470 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: wild and and feels a little hoty definitely a little Um. 471 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: I think that people would more likely experience it in 472 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: the Arab and Indian regions, to be honest, because that's 473 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: the home of these stories. Um. Do I think I 474 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 1: could feel something here? Yeah? Listen, it's a Dumas beard. 475 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: There's like I don't and unfortunately I don't know if 476 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: it's just a marketing gammick for tourism or if it's real. Um. 477 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,880 Speaker 1: But there's the vortexes here, which are energy war taxes 478 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: and so in the Red Rocks, and so you go 479 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: there and you're supposed to feel things. Um, and there's 480 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: just a high confluence of spiritual things here in theory. 481 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: Um have you have you experienced? And yeah, not the 482 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,640 Speaker 1: vor text itself, but sometimes like in our host as 483 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, it feels good, good vibes whatever. Like I'm 484 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: not scared of my house. I'm more scared of you know. 485 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 1: Um like that movie The Strangers when you're out in 486 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere and then there's crazy people outside 487 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 1: that scares me more than like ghosts. But like I'll 488 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: be washing dishes and all of a sudden, you know, 489 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: right next to me, I'll hear someone speaking Spanish and 490 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: then it's gone, and it's almost like it's like just 491 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: passing through. And that might have been when you follow me, 492 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: because I believe about that. I was like, this is 493 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: this is happening. It's really strange, but it wasn't scary 494 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 1: the same times, you know, you know what I mean. 495 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: So it's it's almost like this whole area is just 496 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: kind of funky that way. Okay, maybe it's a like 497 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: a little a portal, right, like where certain worlds can be. 498 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not the Yeah, and there's something I mean, 499 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 1: every time I try to google it, I get some 500 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: weird websites talking about Leylands, and I don't know any 501 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: of that stuff. You know, maybe I have no idea. 502 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: My I honestly cannot say one way or the other. Um, 503 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: do I think people here might be a little sensitive 504 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: to things? Yeah? Sure, you know, maybe they flocked here 505 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: for that reason, right, because they're seeking something. You're already 506 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 1: predisposed to something, right, Yeah, let me ask you this exactly? 507 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,719 Speaker 1: Can you can you share with us maybe one of 508 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 1: the I mean, I would think as a four year old, 509 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: it's a little frightening to have your father say, oh, 510 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: no worries, I'm an exorcist. But but were there any 511 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: other stories your father told you or or drop little 512 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: hants or bombs are just kind of surprised you with 513 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: that really really freak you out? Yeah? There, Well, his 514 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: his mother seeing day people freaked me out. But um, 515 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: the men in the family were the exorcists and the 516 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,120 Speaker 1: women were palm readers. And as you know, you're not 517 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 1: supposed to read fortunes. Um in Islam could do it, 518 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: and so yes, um, and so I remember it was 519 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: it was my stepgrandmother. Um. She would read my palm 520 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 1: um a lot, which always unnerked me. But then I 521 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: started being able to do it, and I had this 522 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: knack and I kind of call it my kids in 523 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: the Hall sketch talent, and that I can read someone's 524 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: palm and know their entire past and I can pinpoint 525 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: things that happened to them that there's no way I 526 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: should have known that, but it's it's like it's on 527 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: your hands. Um So, my dad was really excited when 528 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: I started, you know, learning palmistry and like getting it. 529 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't do it often anymore because honestly, 530 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: it's it's really entiring and I don't really want to 531 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: know that much about people. Um So, it's actually it 532 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: actually like his emotionally draining for you or physically draining 533 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, oh yeah, I get I can do 534 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: like one and then you know, I got a lot down. 535 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: Um But my dad and I always wondered if it 536 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: was just him. He used to tell us this lullaby 537 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: about this woman who had ten thousand needles in her eye, 538 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: and that was, you know, our bedtime stories. And to 539 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: this day, I'm like, you're gonna come from Like I 540 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: ordered a book of Punjabi folk tales trying to find 541 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: this story because I and he doesn't quite remember where 542 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: it's from. He's like, oh, it's just a thing, you know, 543 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: we all know these songs. Wait, do you remember do 544 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: you remember the song? Do you remember it? Allowing now? 545 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: Was her name was dol football Um, which is you 546 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: know football means and on your father's side, and and 547 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: she was like pained or something, and then there were 548 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: needles in her eyes. And this was supposed to make 549 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: me go to sleep. I'm so sorry. No, I never 550 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: had I never had a chance to be normal. I'm 551 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: sorry you have to find this lullaby. I've never heard this. 552 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: But to be fair, my parents were like, go to sleep. 553 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: You don't get lullabies or but good night books or whatever, 554 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: just go to bed. And we didn't get any of that. 555 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, we got those. And then on the flip side, 556 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 1: my mother would be like seeing a super colma, which 557 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: I said to you, I had, I forgot what it was. 558 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: And it's it's not a secret, it's just you know, 559 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,360 Speaker 1: a verse in the Koran. But my my mother's family 560 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: called it the secret. And you have to you know, 561 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 1: clap three times and footmar which is which is like 562 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: kind of blowing wind out three fines to keep the 563 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: bad juju away, So she would make us do that often, 564 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: especially after my my dad would tell a story. Oh 565 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: my gosh, she had to ward off the evil. But 566 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: he was like bringing bringing in um. Okay, if you ever, 567 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: if you ever figure out what that lullaby was, I 568 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: have to hear it, because I just have to hear it. Um. 569 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: So let you never record him singing it. If he remembers, 570 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, what was on somebody else in the family. 571 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 1: You think your siblings might remember how how the tune 572 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: went or anything. No, my sister, My sister remembers it 573 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: was just really bizarre, okay, And we were like, why 574 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: would you why would you say this? Two kids? So 575 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: if you don't remember the way it went, so I'm 576 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 1: gonna let me ask you this. Did you have you 577 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: ever are yourself You seem like you're really open to 578 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: the to the not open to the idea that you believe, 579 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: you believe in gin, that they there are a gin 580 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 1: that are connected, that their gin that are connected to 581 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: your family, and that you are open to being like 582 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: receiving them in some way or or you're not scared 583 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: of them. So have you ever actually actively tried to 584 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: connect with them? Because I would not know what I'm doing. 585 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing. I feel like I 586 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: one I haven't found, Um, I find out a Western text, 587 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: you know, like why white writers and how to how 588 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: to conjure them? That's that's not what I want. Um. 589 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: I think for me, I would have want somebody from 590 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: our culture who knows how to do it. But I'm 591 00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: also not the most religious person, and I feel like 592 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 1: jin are so connected to our religion, even but even 593 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: though some books I'm reading that they predate the religion, 594 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: that they become part of the religion. So I feel 595 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: like in order to summon them or conjure or whatever 596 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: you want to call it, I feel like you have 597 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: to have that religious component a little bit. Is that 598 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: only so you so you feel more protected? Like? Is 599 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: that why? I think? It's also so I don't screw 600 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: something up, you know, Like I just I just don't 601 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: think that I have that talent and to be perfectly honest, um, 602 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: But I do feel like there's more I don't. My 603 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: philosophy on all the spiritual stuff is that there are 604 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: things that we can't explain and maybe one day we'll 605 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 1: all have it figured out, you know, and and science 606 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 1: will be like, yes, this is weird dimensional stuff whatever. UM, 607 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,879 Speaker 1: But you know, I've had experiences with ghosts and I've 608 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: had experiences with with UM. This is when it sounds crazy. 609 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: There was a demon in my old apartment building, and 610 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: I cannot believe. I cannot believe you're bringing up I 611 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: can't believe you're bringing up the demon in your apartment building. 612 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: This late into the conversation, but let's hear the story. Well, 613 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: first of all, I've totally I've totally tweeted this story. 614 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 1: So I lived, you know, on Upper East Side eighty nine. 615 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,720 Speaker 1: And first the apartment was great, was like a studio, 616 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: but the closet was in the middle, so it was 617 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: kind of separated the bed from rest. And I sleepwalk, granted, 618 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: but I mean I sleepwalk a couple of times a 619 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: year now, it's not like a weekly thing. I was 620 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: sleepwalking every single night. Every night I would wake up 621 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: either opening my closet trying to find something that shouldn't 622 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 1: be there, or standing in the living room living area 623 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,359 Speaker 1: being like, something's here, it shouldn't be here. I did 624 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: every single night for like weeks, and I made a 625 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,799 Speaker 1: joke some friends, I have a closet monster. And my 626 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: dog started. Um, she started pinning her ears back at 627 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 1: night and staring at things on the wall that weren't there, 628 00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 1: like there was no bug, there was nothing, and I'm 629 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 1: just like watching her and I got so freaked out 630 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: I had to put a blanket over her house. She 631 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: would and she would do this every single day. And 632 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: so now back to the whole fashion world things. This 633 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: isn't while I was still in fashion. This is one 634 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: of the those healers that I would go to dinner 635 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: with with PR people. He called me out of the 636 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: blue one day at you know, I'm at work. My 637 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,279 Speaker 1: phone rings my cellphone and he says, I don't know 638 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: if you remember me. We went to dinner with this 639 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: PR person six months ago. My spirit guides are telling 640 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: me I have to get into your apartment. There's something there. 641 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: And I dropped my phone. I was like, all right, 642 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm done. Like what So he came over and um, 643 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: he was like, I can't even explain what he did. 644 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: He does like energetic feng shway, and honestly, I don't 645 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: know what that is. I don't know how it applies 646 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,760 Speaker 1: beyond regular peng shway. Um, but he was like, okay, 647 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: there's something this apartment, but it's coming from another person, 648 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:46,439 Speaker 1: and it's coming, um three year bathroom, And I kind 649 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: of lost my mind because the night before he came, 650 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: I had this dream that if I went into the 651 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: bathroom and left the lights off, it took a picture 652 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: in the mirror with a flash on my camera on 653 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: my phone, I would see whatever I wanted to what 654 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: it was behind me. And I didn't do that in 655 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,319 Speaker 1: real life. I didn't wake up and do it. I 656 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,359 Speaker 1: thought no. So when he said it's coming in from 657 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: the bathroom, I was like, Okay, maybe he's right. So 658 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: he does all these weird things. Um, you know, like 659 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: he was using commusiology, which is so bizarre, Like he 660 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: would ask you a question and the way he your 661 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: arm would move with him would be yes or no, 662 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,879 Speaker 1: you were you're incapable of lying. It's the honestly, it's 663 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: the most bizarre thing I've ever experienced. So after he 664 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: was done, and you know, everything felt a little bit 665 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: lighter in the house an apartment, he said, wait, there's 666 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,399 Speaker 1: a message from your from your your dead mother here 667 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: And I was like all right, and he's like it's 668 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: on your bookshelf. Now my books. I'm I'm not an 669 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 1: organized person. They're like half hazard. They're not color coordinated 670 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,600 Speaker 1: or anything, right, They're just piled up. And so he 671 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: would use my arms, like gets on this shelf, yes 672 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:51,440 Speaker 1: or no, and so I like raising my arm yes 673 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: or no. He could tell by the resistance which where 674 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: it was. And he found this book and it's a 675 00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: Camle book. I don't elber Kamer coming. I don't remember reading. 676 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: I know I did back in from college. And he 677 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: finds the page using my arms at this page or 678 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: it's an after this page and whatever, and he finds 679 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: the line and he looks at me and he says, 680 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but this is what you're supposed to say. 681 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: And the line said, yes, it would be a pleasure 682 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: to see my mother again. And I was just like, 683 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how he did that. I just I don't. 684 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: I can't. I have no logical explanation for that, because 685 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,319 Speaker 1: there's just no way. There's absolutely like, there's no way 686 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 1: he could say, oh, yeah, it's not that spine. I 687 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,240 Speaker 1: know there's a line in there, you know, I guess. 688 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: But it was so randad and it wasn't even like 689 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: the plague or the strangers. It was a more obscure 690 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 1: one that people don't know. So it was really a 691 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: strange experience for me because I just I knew something 692 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 1: was around me that wasn't good and that my mom 693 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: sometimes popped. I would say, Hi, it's like dd um, yeah, 694 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: I've had to become more open. I was gonna ask that, 695 00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,240 Speaker 1: how did you know it was a demon? Only because 696 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: like you're in your because you had a sense of dread, 697 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: or because this guy told you it was Yeah, I 698 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: had a sense of dread. And then when he looked 699 00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 1: at me, he said the way he's like, the way 700 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: I'm seeing this is um is uh? I think it 701 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: was dark angle arch angel Michael babbling a demon. It 702 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: was like, so that's the vision I'm seeing that. It's 703 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:35,279 Speaker 1: because I was like, please be a ghosts, please be 704 00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,239 Speaker 1: a ghost. It's easy to get rid of ghosts, but 705 00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, I saw my exorcist. I know how hard 706 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: it is to get rid of the big d's, so 707 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 1: it's like, please don't say the D word. And then 708 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,360 Speaker 1: he said it. I was like, okay, okay, but it wasn't. 709 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,719 Speaker 1: It was attached to somebody else in my building, So 710 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,200 Speaker 1: you know, I totally moved. I was like Nope, nope, 711 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: we're done. I don't need to stay in as an 712 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: art building. There's some weird juju here. I don't I 713 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: don't know what it is. I don't want to, but 714 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,080 Speaker 1: I'm out, and so I moved away and it's much better. Wow, 715 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,480 Speaker 1: talking that, I gotta go back and find that Twitter 716 00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: threat about that. I totally missed that. I don't think 717 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: I saw that at all, But that is um, that's 718 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,240 Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's not it to me. Well, it's actually 719 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,360 Speaker 1: it was weird. It's one of those things where you're like, 720 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: am I going crazy? You know? And somebody else you know. 721 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure. I don't think I've met anybody in 722 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,320 Speaker 1: my life who hasn't had some experience that they cannot explain, 723 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: something like a like a dream that was a premonition, 724 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: or just something like everybody has something, right, So I 725 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,439 Speaker 1: think it's you have to be like an incredibly weirdly 726 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: arrogant person to think I know everything there is to 727 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: know there's nothing there that we don't know, Like sciences 728 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: discovered everything, and human beings can see and hear everything. 729 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: I don't know anybody who actually believes that, even the 730 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: biggest skeptics are like, well, I mean, look, you don't 731 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 1: know which happens after you die, so there's always an unknown, right, 732 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,319 Speaker 1: there's always the end. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well, like I said, 733 00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,440 Speaker 1: maybe an hundred years, science will will figure out it's 734 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: a dimensional thing. I don't know. I have no idea, 735 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 1: but right look, science tell has told us that there 736 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: are dimensions. We know there's different dimensions. And just recently 737 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 1: did you see that the report that came out of 738 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 1: like the Pentagon where they were like navy air like 739 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: navy uh pilots. That confirms he Look, there is something 740 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: out there, and that's why I'm talking to you. That's 741 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: why we're doing the show. Here's something we are. The 742 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,919 Speaker 1: universe is vast. We don't know what's out there like 743 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: or or what's in our closet and under our beds. 744 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,919 Speaker 1: It's it's your arrogance. Yeah all right, well I should 745 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm gonna wrap up here, but 746 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: I want um, I want folks to know how they 747 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: can find you online if they want to continue to 748 00:41:53,280 --> 00:42:00,320 Speaker 1: follow your your your adventures in Sedona and also your drinks. Yeah, 749 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,080 Speaker 1: once you handle I'm on Twitter. Uh drama d r 750 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 1: R drama. That's three rs D R R R A 751 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: M I N A has been little dramatic. Um, I 752 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,480 Speaker 1: will always I'm always happy to talk about this weird stuff, 753 00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, because, uh, you know, I'm not going to 754 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: judge somebody else for believing in it. And that's one 755 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,960 Speaker 1: of the things that I want to include in the 756 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: second book is I, if you love crystals, that's amazing. 757 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: I personally don't. They're pretty. I don't feel anything with them. 758 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: But I'm not gonna did I lose you? Sorry, I'm 759 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: not gonna make fun of anybody for having a belief 760 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,839 Speaker 1: like that, you know. Um. So to me, like I, 761 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 1: I love tarot cards because they are weirdly, my chick. 762 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:49,839 Speaker 1: I have a terrat deck that I use and they're 763 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,879 Speaker 1: um and even my friends and my sister are like this. 764 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: These are ridiculously apt and kind of really almost have 765 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: a sense of humor about situations. And so the more 766 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: I've used them, the more I'm like, ah, this is 767 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: getting weird, you know. So like the whole COVID, Like 768 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: I predicted somebody having COVID in our family and I didn't, 769 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, realize what it was until after and my 770 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 1: sister mentioned it to me, and I was like, oh 771 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,200 Speaker 1: my god, well, you're right. I thought it was gonna 772 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: be somebody else and that you know, it ended up 773 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: being this one person in our family. So there's there 774 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: are things that have come true that I'm like, No, 775 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: that's weird. You know, what are you gonna do? I 776 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: think I'm gonna that that you the veil for some 777 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,520 Speaker 1: people as thinner, and the veil for you as thinner 778 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,439 Speaker 1: between between what we can see and what we can't see. 779 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,439 Speaker 1: And I have a feeling and I'm gonna be actually 780 00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:41,840 Speaker 1: really interested to see continue to talk to me about 781 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,120 Speaker 1: this um offline and about like as you continue to 782 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,880 Speaker 1: research a jin stuff because you know, I'm neck deep, man, 783 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,399 Speaker 1: I'm I'm neck deep in that stuff, every rabbit hole 784 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: you can believe. So I think it's gonna be a 785 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: fun journey for you. I love the gym stuff. Yeah, 786 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,000 Speaker 1: And I think as long as we approach it without 787 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,680 Speaker 1: fear and just more of like I want to learn, 788 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: I think that's the right approach. Thanks for joining us 789 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,000 Speaker 1: this week. You can find out more about Amina's work, 790 00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 1: her amazing book, Fashion Victim, and everything else she's working 791 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: on by going to her website. It's Amina After That's 792 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: spelled a M I N A A k h t 793 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: A R dot work, and like she said, you can 794 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: follow her on Twitter. Her handle is at D three 795 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,480 Speaker 1: rs d r r R and then her first name, 796 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:34,680 Speaker 1: Amina d r r R Amina Drameda. Love it. I 797 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. 798 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,560 Speaker 1: Now there are as many people in the world with 799 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: jin stories as there are gin, so if you have 800 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,080 Speaker 1: one you'd like to share, make sure to email it 801 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: to me at the Hidden Gin at gmail dot com. 802 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: That's the Hidden Gin. Th h E H I D 803 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: d N d j I n n at gmail dot com. 804 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:07,799 Speaker 1: And until next time, remember we are not alone. The 805 00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: Hidden Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and 806 00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written 807 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: and hosted by Robbiah Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins 808 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,000 Speaker 1: and Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, 809 00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. Our theme song was created by Patrick Quartetz. 810 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I 811 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,719 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.