Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Jason tim Podcast. Thank you
Speaker 1: guys for taking time out of your day to come
Speaker 1: hang out and talk some hoops with Justin. And I
Speaker 1: am super excited about this episode because one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things to do is tell old hoops stories. And
Speaker 1: when I can do that and talk NBA basketball, that's
Speaker 1: about as good as it gets. I'm gonna bring Justin
Speaker 1: on here right now. What's up man? How are you
Speaker 1: pretty good? Man? How you doing? I'm doing well. So
Speaker 1: before we get started, I wanted you to give like
Speaker 1: just a quick, little fifteen second rapid resume about where
Speaker 1: you played and what your basketball background is, and then
Speaker 1: we'll get started. Cool. Um, I played at clarent University.
Speaker 1: It's a small division to school, UM like an ours
Speaker 1: out of Pittsburgh Upper Wes np A. Played there all
Speaker 1: four years. UM, had a decent career. UM played against
Speaker 1: some pretty high level guys over my course of my
Speaker 1: time there, and then after that shortly started playing like
Speaker 1: semi professional lubly and on the DC Maryland area and
Speaker 1: then pretty much doing that ever since. That's awesome, man. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So for those of you don't know me, similar story,
Speaker 1: I played an A I A I played junior college
Speaker 1: up in Utah. Was a real late bloomer. I started
Speaker 1: playing when I was twenty and uh. I had a
Speaker 1: couple of seasons at DUCO and then I played in
Speaker 1: the n E I A and then same thing. I
Speaker 1: played at a couple of different semi professional things, and
Speaker 1: I was supposed to go play in the league in India,
Speaker 1: had a contract and everything, and then that league folded.
Speaker 1: And then at that point my wife was like, it's
Speaker 1: time to hang him up. So now I just do
Speaker 1: it for fun and and play on the local scene,
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of enjoying it, although I always you know,
Speaker 1: it's always hard, and I know, you know what this
Speaker 1: is like. It's always hard to not just drop everything
Speaker 1: and try to do it again. But yeah, you gotta
Speaker 1: find a way to be a grown up, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. Um So, today we're gonna primarily focus
Speaker 1: on on the Warriors and this offseason, which I think
Speaker 1: is gonna be one of the more pivotal off seasons
Speaker 1: in their franchise history, mainly just because the difference between
Speaker 1: them going on another run of contention here or kind
Speaker 1: of disappearing into the middle of the Western Conference is
Speaker 1: gonna entirely depend on how they put pieces around their
Speaker 1: core three guys. And my my initial take on that
Speaker 1: is gonna entirely depend on one of my overarching basketball ideologies.
Speaker 1: Everybody's got their overarching basketball ideologies that shape most of
Speaker 1: their opinions, and one of my big ones is quite
Speaker 1: simply that really young basketball players don't know how to win.
Speaker 1: And my favorite example of this is, you know, I
Speaker 1: live in Tucson, Arizona, which is where the University of
Speaker 1: Arizona is, and they consistently, every single year have one
Speaker 1: of the best recruiting classes in the country. They constantly
Speaker 1: get top five or five star recruits, top ten recruits
Speaker 1: in the country that come through this school. And then
Speaker 1: we lose. We lose early and often in the in
Speaker 1: the tournament, and we and the main reason for that
Speaker 1: is is there's a huge difference between projecting someone's potential
Speaker 1: and projecting their current impact on winning right now. And
Speaker 1: there are a lot of guys that have come through
Speaker 1: this school. Aaron Gordon's a great example, a guy like
Speaker 1: Stanley Johnson who kind of struggled understanding how to contribute
Speaker 1: in a winning environment at Arizona, who then went on
Speaker 1: to have much more success in the NBA. Aaron Gordon
Speaker 1: is the best example you can think of someone like that.
Speaker 1: But the main reason for that is I think that
Speaker 1: every like young player is primarily focused on kind of themselves,
Speaker 1: and when they go to the gym and when they
Speaker 1: work on their game, they're primarily focused on what they
Speaker 1: can do to be better individually. And then every single
Speaker 1: player kind of twists and change like kind of transitions
Speaker 1: into a phase of their career where they primarily focus
Speaker 1: on the scoreboard and what it takes to impact winning,
Speaker 1: especially within the team construct. And some people make that
Speaker 1: change faster than others, but everybody is going to have
Speaker 1: to make that change, and almost never will you find
Speaker 1: a player that's that young that already knows how to
Speaker 1: contribute at that level and like the you know, there
Speaker 1: are a couple of examples in NBA history of young
Speaker 1: guys who have done winning early, like John Morant and
Speaker 1: Donovan Mitchell. Dwyane Wade's even a great example, but the
Speaker 1: huge differences they were drafted into a situation where they
Speaker 1: were supposed to be the best player on their team,
Speaker 1: and more importantly, they were surrounded by veteran players who
Speaker 1: did all of that dirty work for them. Dwyane Wade
Speaker 1: played with Alonzo Mourning and James Posey and Antoine Walker,
Speaker 1: and you know, all of these guys who were able
Speaker 1: to do all of that heavy lifting mentally for him
Speaker 1: so that they could just shoot Dwyane Wayne at a
Speaker 1: Dwyane Wade out of a cannon to be a wrecking
Speaker 1: ball and understand that all of the fine details of
Speaker 1: ning they could take care of, and exact same thing
Speaker 1: with Donovan Mitchell. He played with some of the smartest
Speaker 1: players in the game like Ricky Rubio, Joe Ingles and
Speaker 1: Rudy Gobert and Jay Crowder, guys like that. So in
Speaker 1: my opinion, you know, when we're shaping this forward, even
Speaker 1: when you look at the players in this draft that
Speaker 1: are you know, kind of advertised as guys who can
Speaker 1: be right away type of winners like that Denny Avija,
Speaker 1: I think, is the main one that a lot of
Speaker 1: Warriors fans bring up. Even with the guy like that,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, just an average role player, a guy
Speaker 1: like Jeff Green would impact winning more right now and
Speaker 1: over the next couple of years than he could. And
Speaker 1: the main reason for that is if you look at
Speaker 1: Jeff Green, he's made that transition. If you look at
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen with the Calves, he understood mentally that
Speaker 1: his peak as a winner was as a guy who
Speaker 1: ran in transition, got easy layups and dunks, knockdown open
Speaker 1: threes as as best as he could, made simple plays
Speaker 1: that it was, and defended on the other end of
Speaker 1: the flour. And so from that standpoint, if I am
Speaker 1: a Warriors fan, I think you have to trade the pick,
Speaker 1: and I think you have to just understand that it's
Speaker 1: gonna hurt in the future potentially to see whoever this
Speaker 1: kid is end up being a better player than whoever
Speaker 1: you got, but understand that within this tight little two
Speaker 1: or three year window where you plan on contending, that
Speaker 1: whoever you got is going to bring more to the
Speaker 1: table within the scope of winning. If that makes sense, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, And I definitely agree. And I wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 1: trade the pick for like someone like a Green, but
Speaker 1: definitely like initially think, hey, like, let's see what we
Speaker 1: can we can get, maybe like trade down for a
Speaker 1: player and a pick um for someone that's that's more
Speaker 1: ready to contribute to winning, to winning right away, and
Speaker 1: you can still get a young guy that you can
Speaker 1: possibly groom that can help you farther down the line
Speaker 1: or even play spot minutes in the playoffs now and
Speaker 1: kind of help you get to where you want to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and like and for sure you can do a lot
Speaker 1: better than Jeff Green with that pick. I just think
Speaker 1: that Jeff Green is a great example of the fact
Speaker 1: that that veteran player that understands in his finite role
Speaker 1: that he's gonna have on this team what they're going
Speaker 1: to be asking him to do, because they're not going
Speaker 1: to be asking much of him. If you look at
Speaker 1: what that team already has on paper, you've got like
Speaker 1: four starters at thirty five plus minutes a night completely
Speaker 1: taken up. So you're basically looking for rim running and
Speaker 1: defense from your center position, and you're looking for backup
Speaker 1: playmaking and spot up shooting and things along those lines.
Speaker 1: And so from that standpoint, um like, there's absolutely no
Speaker 1: way in my opinion, that you can get as much
Speaker 1: quality out of drafting, even at high as high at
Speaker 1: number as number two as you could um looking elsewhere
Speaker 1: and trying to just make the most what of what
Speaker 1: there is. And I think your example is great. That's
Speaker 1: trading down and getting you know, some kind of mid
Speaker 1: level veteran role player and then understanding that if I
Speaker 1: pick at seventeen or twenty two, that guy has just
Speaker 1: about the same amount of chances impacting winning this season
Speaker 1: as number two, because like, do you think James Wiseman
Speaker 1: can go head to head with Anthony Davis in a
Speaker 1: playoff series right now? And probably in in five years probably,
Speaker 1: but right now I have a feeling that that matchup
Speaker 1: is just going to be too much for him mentally
Speaker 1: to understand the little things he'd have to do to
Speaker 1: match Anthony Davis's impact. And uh So, from that standpoint, like,
Speaker 1: I think that that's where where that uh decision has
Speaker 1: to be based on. So the main guys that have
Speaker 1: been floated around for the Warriors at number two are
Speaker 1: killing and his Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball, this Danny Avija guy,
Speaker 1: and then James Wiseman. And I suppose, and this is
Speaker 1: my next question for you, is if you had to pick,
Speaker 1: let's say there's no trade available or nothing that is
Speaker 1: other than a certain amount of value that Bob Meyers
Speaker 1: would be willing to accet, which one of those guys
Speaker 1: would you have if you had to pick one. Um,
Speaker 1: I'd probably say I'd take Wiseman right now, probably because
Speaker 1: like the center is probably our weakest position at the moment.
Speaker 1: And his measurables are like, oh, they jump off the
Speaker 1: paper for you, you know what I mean, Like they
Speaker 1: just read the other day. He has like a nine
Speaker 1: six standing reach something like that. Yeah, it's like he
Speaker 1: has observed measurables. He's a freak athlete. He has a
Speaker 1: lot of size, which were which we're lacking inside. And
Speaker 1: even though he can't necessarily match up with that guy
Speaker 1: like Anthony Davis like mentally, yet at at least he
Speaker 1: has like the physical attributes to to bank with some
Speaker 1: of the bigger centers or some of the some of
Speaker 1: the guys with size that we're going to see in
Speaker 1: the Western Conference, like a Yo kids or even like um,
Speaker 1: whether or not Dwhite comes back to the Lakers, but
Speaker 1: somebody like a Dwight or whatever the case may be. UM,
Speaker 1: And I think, as you said, like younger guys coming in,
Speaker 1: they typically think like me, me, me, like how can
Speaker 1: I improve myself? Um, and all those other guys you
Speaker 1: name are either wings of guards, which is it's even
Speaker 1: going to be more towards that I want to develop
Speaker 1: my own game. Let's see how many points like an
Speaker 1: average wherever these may be. Whereas Wiseman, I think a
Speaker 1: big might be easier to convince to like buy an
Speaker 1: indefensive end early on in his career rather than focus
Speaker 1: on like how many points he's scoring and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: That makes sense, That's actually a really good point, Like
Speaker 1: I think the Wiseman has the best capability of potentially
Speaker 1: accepting that smaller role. One of my favorite things about
Speaker 1: this year's Laker team was the fact that every single
Speaker 1: one of their role players had a really small role.
Speaker 1: And when you give a limited player a very small role,
Speaker 1: it's much easier for them to, you know, excel in
Speaker 1: that role than it is when you're asking them to
Speaker 1: do a lot. And I agree, like if you draft
Speaker 1: someone like Anthony Edwards, if you draft someone like Lamella Ball,
Speaker 1: you're asking them to come in and playmate, which at
Speaker 1: this level is arguably the toughest skill. It's arguably the
Speaker 1: hardest thing to do from a decision making standpoint, Like
Speaker 1: even when you watch young players. Now, you know, when
Speaker 1: you watch Killie and Hayes next year or Lamella Ball,
Speaker 1: you're gonna see them have two or three possessions in
Speaker 1: a row where they make a good play and then
Speaker 1: they're gonna go, you know, right off and to do
Speaker 1: something stupid, because that's just the natural thing that happens
Speaker 1: when you're dealing with that type of young player. And
Speaker 1: then also, I think with Wiseman, you have the best
Speaker 1: capability I think of potentially flipping him at the trade
Speaker 1: deadline if you had to um to to some team
Speaker 1: out there that has, you know, like the good The
Speaker 1: best example of someone like this would be maybe a
Speaker 1: team like the Pistons who foolishly convinces themselves that, you know,
Speaker 1: we can maybe compete in the East with a healthy
Speaker 1: Blake Griffin, and then they get out there and they
Speaker 1: start getting their ass kicked and pretty quickly there you know,
Speaker 1: seven and twenty two, and it's like, okay, it's time
Speaker 1: to rebuild. Why don't we go after Wiseman. Why don't
Speaker 1: we go after someone like that? And um that that
Speaker 1: I think Wiseman gives you the best chance of flipping
Speaker 1: him if you need to. But like, so, let's let's
Speaker 1: talk about the Warrior's needs, because you know, if you
Speaker 1: look at the two thousand sixteen Warriors, which were arguably
Speaker 1: one of the top three or four teams ever and
Speaker 1: uh arguably I'm never gonna allow this to be say
Speaker 1: stated as act, but arguably, had they stayed healthy, they
Speaker 1: would have won the championship that year. Um, they were
Speaker 1: built on the Steph Curry offensive formula of you know,
Speaker 1: drawing attention and players kind of feeding off of the
Speaker 1: attention he draws. And then Clay Thompson, who was without
Speaker 1: a doubt a better player now than he was in
Speaker 1: two thousand and sixteen, as long as his knee can
Speaker 1: hold up. But Clay is weirdly, you know, just Clay
Speaker 1: is just kind of a physical freak in that sense,
Speaker 1: So I think he had cans of coming back. Uh, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: And then you've got Andrew Wiggins, who I don't think
Speaker 1: that much of him, and I know you don't, and
Speaker 1: I know most people don't, but it is completely reasonable
Speaker 1: to think that he could be Harrison Barnes, you know,
Speaker 1: when you look at what they were asking Harrison Barnes
Speaker 1: to do in that role. So there is a very
Speaker 1: clear like the pathway you can follow mentally to see
Speaker 1: how this team can compete. But one of the most
Speaker 1: important things about that roster was the fact that when
Speaker 1: they downsized, they had a wing that could guard Biggs
Speaker 1: in Andrea adult yep. And then they and then they
Speaker 1: had a bench full of really really savvy veteran players
Speaker 1: in Andrew Barbosa and and Sean Livingston and all those guys.
Speaker 1: So the key there is, like to follow that mold
Speaker 1: you need to look for because I don't know, a
Speaker 1: lot of people talk about bo Get, and Boget, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, was not as important on that team is portrayed.
Speaker 1: He only played, I think, if I'm not mistaken, like
Speaker 1: ten minutes a game towards the end of that playoff run. Uh,
Speaker 1: he was not all that involved. It primarily to me
Speaker 1: comes down to finding a really big win so that
Speaker 1: you can downsize, and then finding just smart basketball players
Speaker 1: that can make decisions in four on threes, in three
Speaker 1: on two's, off of Steph Curry double teams. If that
Speaker 1: makes sense. Where do you land on that? I'm right
Speaker 1: there with you, Like you said, Um, the main thing
Speaker 1: that I that I remember from those Warriors teams, like
Speaker 1: prior to Katie's arrival, I mean even with Katie's that
Speaker 1: with Katie there is that soil as the Lakers operated
Speaker 1: this year, where they just had, like you said, a
Speaker 1: bunch of many roles that people can people can feel,
Speaker 1: and they were versatile as far as like they had
Speaker 1: size that they wanted to go big and they can
Speaker 1: go big, and they if they wanted to go small,
Speaker 1: which they did mostly because teams at that time really
Speaker 1: couldn't handle it, they went small, but they had guys
Speaker 1: that can guard. They had dream On and and Iggy
Speaker 1: and Harrison Hooping guard up. So I think right and
Speaker 1: Clay can guard up. So it's like if they really
Speaker 1: never really gave up a size even when going down. UM,
Speaker 1: So I think that definitely should be a priority getting
Speaker 1: like bigger wings up and guard um if like Lebron
Speaker 1: goes to before or something like that, or they put
Speaker 1: eight at the five or colados um to the to
Speaker 1: the wherever the case maybe um they need to have
Speaker 1: that versatility to be able to mass teams size wise,
Speaker 1: and as well as like i Q and skill has
Speaker 1: a follow as well, because you can't just mass team
Speaker 1: with size and then you just don't have any shooting
Speaker 1: or whatever the case may be. So I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely defense and like versatilities should be their primary leg focus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there are a couple of players who fit that
Speaker 1: mold because like so, Andre Godalo is about strength, like
Speaker 1: that dude was just unbelievably strong for a player who
Speaker 1: played that position. Um, the other players that I thought
Speaker 1: that kind of fit potential, this potential role. One of
Speaker 1: my favorites was Wesley Matthews, and secretly I'm hoping the
Speaker 1: Lakers get him. But Wesley Matthews, it is a player
Speaker 1: who is undersized, if I'm not mistaken, He's only like
Speaker 1: six five or six four. But Wesley Matthews is His
Speaker 1: defensive principles are based on getting super low and uh
Speaker 1: like getting up underneath guys and forcing them to shoot
Speaker 1: over the top with his ridiculous lateral quickness. So a
Speaker 1: player like that is what would allow you because you
Speaker 1: gotta think, everything to me with the Warriors has to
Speaker 1: be framed through what their late round playoff matchups would be,
Speaker 1: which in this case is in all in all likelihood,
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to go through both the clippers of
Speaker 1: the Lakers, or at least the one who won in
Speaker 1: that matchup. So from that standpoint, at any given moment,
Speaker 1: they're gonna be dealing with either two massive front court
Speaker 1: players and Anthony Davis and Lebron, or dealing with uh
Speaker 1: two extremely versatile wings in Paul George and and Kawhi Leonard.
Speaker 1: And a guy like Wesley Matthews is an example of
Speaker 1: a player who you could probably get with your mid
Speaker 1: level exception, who would at least make those guys shoot
Speaker 1: over the top. Because even with Lebron, if you watch
Speaker 1: in both of their matchups this year, particularly even when
Speaker 1: they won in l A, Wesley Matthews was forcing Lebron
Speaker 1: into fadeaways and forcing him into taking shots away from
Speaker 1: the basket. The only time he ever really got to
Speaker 1: the rim on him was in pick and roll when
Speaker 1: they were using Jail McGee to like kind of like
Speaker 1: run him out of the lane and then like basically
Speaker 1: throw blocks for Lebron in isolation. He was forcing him
Speaker 1: to shoot over the top, which is really all you
Speaker 1: can ask for from a player, especially at that at
Speaker 1: that pay level. The other guys that have been tossed around,
Speaker 1: Robert Covington, Uh, Jeff Green, there's uh the older Holiday
Speaker 1: brother justin Hall Day, guys like that. But I don't
Speaker 1: think like I worry about guys like Robert Covington and
Speaker 1: Justin Holiday being a little too skinny because the problem
Speaker 1: is with like again, what makes that work is Draymond
Speaker 1: Green's strength in Andreago Dollar's strength and their ability to
Speaker 1: match up with the size. And so from that standpoint,
Speaker 1: I just don't see uh getting it. Like there's an
Speaker 1: obsession with wings in today's NBA, this idea that you
Speaker 1: need to get his wings as you can get. But
Speaker 1: the reality is is I think it's more versatile size
Speaker 1: and size can be distributed in many different ways. Like
Speaker 1: I played a lot bigger than my position in college
Speaker 1: because I wait two pounds, so I was able to
Speaker 1: guard bigger players. And when you look at like even
Speaker 1: this Houston Rockets team this year this past year, everybody
Speaker 1: complained about how short they were because even their wings
Speaker 1: were short, But every single player on that team was
Speaker 1: strong and you couldn't just back them down. And from
Speaker 1: that same point, I think that would be the big
Speaker 1: one because even with guys like Clay and Steph and
Speaker 1: Andrew Wiggins, they're little thin, and that physical wearing and
Speaker 1: that physical wear and tear would be the big thing
Speaker 1: that I would look out for with them. I definitely agree.
Speaker 1: I think another guy's name has been floated around as
Speaker 1: they like Jake Crowder. Um he set saying like mold. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so if they if they can find a way to
Speaker 1: land a guy like him, that would be that would
Speaker 1: be huge as well. So let's let's uh, let's focus
Speaker 1: on a hypothetical scenario where the Warriors get Let's say
Speaker 1: they get They're like they're dream offseason, Okay, they they
Speaker 1: trade number two and they get a high quality center
Speaker 1: and another pick, like let's say they trade him to
Speaker 1: who's it that as Capellas at Washington. Let's say they
Speaker 1: get like Capella and you know, an a late second
Speaker 1: or late first round pick or something like that, just
Speaker 1: a league average center. And let's say that they get
Speaker 1: Jay Crowder And let's say they get Wesley Matthews and
Speaker 1: they are structured, let's just say, comparable to the two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen Warriors. Not quite as good, but comparable, and
Speaker 1: they end up cruising through the season. And let's say
Speaker 1: the Lakers also add Vanilla Gallinari some quality piece with that,
Speaker 1: because I think that needs to be factored in the Lakers.
Speaker 1: I can't say for sure who they're going to get,
Speaker 1: but it is in mind they're going to be there.
Speaker 1: They're gonna get somebody. They're gonna get somebody. And so
Speaker 1: from that standpoint, what do you think a Warriors Lakers
Speaker 1: series in that hypothetical would look like? Who would you
Speaker 1: pick and why? Um, let's say, okay, both teams have
Speaker 1: like a great off season. I'd say it's a toss up.
Speaker 1: I really don't know, because I think so much rides
Speaker 1: on UM. One. Is Lebron gonna full further time again
Speaker 1: and just be Lebron for another post season? I think
Speaker 1: that's like huge. If he is, then that obviously gives
Speaker 1: them like a great chance. I would probably give them
Speaker 1: the slighter edge in that in that scenario, and if
Speaker 1: Anthony Davis becomes a better like playmaker out of the
Speaker 1: post from teams Dublin, because in that case, even if
Speaker 1: we do get like an average level center, they're probably
Speaker 1: gonna have to double and even if they put Draymond
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have the double amount of posts and
Speaker 1: try to take him out of the game, similar to
Speaker 1: how like um Miami was doing just like not lett
Speaker 1: him get touches and just kind of forced the ball
Speaker 1: his hand in the post. Um. So I would definitely
Speaker 1: say it's a toss up. I would say it comes
Speaker 1: down to the Warrior's ability to get those stops. Because
Speaker 1: even if we even though we saw the Lakers defend
Speaker 1: at extremely high level throughout the post season this past season,
Speaker 1: they rotate well, they close out on shooters, they run
Speaker 1: out of the mind. Um. But we saw all in
Speaker 1: the twenty nineteen playoffs with Toronto how well they defended,
Speaker 1: and even even then the Warriors kind of gave them
Speaker 1: some issues. We just didn't have enough guys that hit shots. UM.
Speaker 1: So I don't think offense is gonna be a problem
Speaker 1: for for a really euty team. It just comes down
Speaker 1: to who gets the most stops. And at that point,
Speaker 1: if if we bring in a guy like if we're
Speaker 1: bringing Jay crowder and and Wesley Matthews and guys would
Speaker 1: really help on that in um, I can't really say
Speaker 1: the Lakers would be that much more dominant defensively to
Speaker 1: kind of swing it heavily in their favor. And I
Speaker 1: can't say the same thing for the wars either. UM.
Speaker 1: I guess the by the bias and me will being
Speaker 1: like Warriors in seven or something. But but yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say i'd say to Tassa honestly, Um, And that's
Speaker 1: that's like the beauty of that's kind of that's kind
Speaker 1: of what we want to like not knowing necessarily who
Speaker 1: was going to win, Um And Yeah, that's that's where
Speaker 1: Austin that. Yeah, So I mean we're both biased, So
Speaker 1: we're both gonna be looking at this in a particular
Speaker 1: way that HUM is going to favor our particular side.
Speaker 1: My case for the Lakers being a pretty significant favorite.
Speaker 1: There is the fact that I do believe that styles
Speaker 1: make fights and the big believer in playoff matchups in
Speaker 1: the way that they can swing series. Um, there's so
Speaker 1: many examples of it throughout NBA history. We're a better
Speaker 1: team throughout the regular season loses in the playoffs because
Speaker 1: of the way the things the matchups work out. The
Speaker 1: best example of that is that two thousand eight or
Speaker 1: two thousand nine Calves team that lost to the Magic
Speaker 1: because they didn't have their centers were old and slow
Speaker 1: and couldn't stay with Dwight Howard and their guards were
Speaker 1: smaller and UH and Orlando brought this unique challenge to
Speaker 1: the table in the form of these really tall perimeter
Speaker 1: players in Richard Lewis and UH a Hedo Turker Glue,
Speaker 1: who were just too big for the smaller perimeter players
Speaker 1: in UH with with Cleveland and Guard and it ended
Speaker 1: up literally swinging a series even though Lebron was far
Speaker 1: and away the best player on the floor every single game,
Speaker 1: just because that's the way that playoff series worked. And
Speaker 1: you know, I've always been worried about the Clippers for
Speaker 1: the Lakers, and I all, I do think that the
Speaker 1: Lakers would have won against the Clippers. I think it
Speaker 1: would have been really close. I think it would have
Speaker 1: gone six or seven games, and the games would have
Speaker 1: been super competitive. And the main reasoning behind that is
Speaker 1: the idea that uh like, with these specific playing styles
Speaker 1: and roster constructions, the Clippers were built to beat the
Speaker 1: Lakers in the sense that they they had at least
Speaker 1: enough big, strong wings to force Santhony Davis to shoot
Speaker 1: over the top. They had all sorts of bodies that
Speaker 1: throw out Lebron, and the Laker defense, which was built
Speaker 1: on the Laker defense, was under size. It's one of
Speaker 1: the big things that people forget, like a very Bradley
Speaker 1: was small. Danny Green, who was basically playing small forward
Speaker 1: for them, was pretty small for that position. He's like
Speaker 1: six six. You know, he's not a really overly large player.
Speaker 1: You know, Alex Crusoe is only like six five, and
Speaker 1: you know, Region Rondo is small and and KCP is smaller,
Speaker 1: he's only like six four. So like all of these
Speaker 1: guy eyes are are you know, undersize relatively at their position.
Speaker 1: So they had to build their defensive scheme to match
Speaker 1: that personnel. So what they were doing was essentially having uh,
Speaker 1: every single one of those guards error on the side
Speaker 1: of chasing guys off the three point line and ball
Speaker 1: pressure getting up into people's shirts, understanding that, uh it
Speaker 1: will force them into the size and and understanding that
Speaker 1: they're there. They can make up for the weakness of
Speaker 1: their size by making people drive into their taller players
Speaker 1: that they do have on the court in the form
Speaker 1: of Lebron Anthony Davis in their centers. And so what
Speaker 1: the Clippers brought to the table that was a challenge
Speaker 1: for that was lou Williams was so remarkably good at
Speaker 1: those little floating jump shots and little tear drops and
Speaker 1: things and that ten to fifteen foot range, and he
Speaker 1: was so good at drawing fouls on bigs and then
Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard was so good operating out of the mid
Speaker 1: range as a score that when they got the switches
Speaker 1: they want it. With Kauai, they were getting super high
Speaker 1: quality shots against the Laker defense at that mid range area.
Speaker 1: And then with Lou Williams when they put him in
Speaker 1: pick and roll, he was killing the Lakers centers and
Speaker 1: they only really basically forced them to put a d
Speaker 1: at the five. And so from that standpoint, like when
Speaker 1: I look at a potential Warriors UH Lakers matchup, what
Speaker 1: would worry me for the Warriors is that the idea
Speaker 1: of doubling Steph off of pick and rolls, of double
Speaker 1: like chasing him off the three point line, forcing him
Speaker 1: to drive to the basket and make plays is kind
Speaker 1: of the whole design of their defense. It's kind of
Speaker 1: the entire it's their entire winning formula. And so from
Speaker 1: that standpoint, like they don't necessarily have a guy that
Speaker 1: can kill the smaller Laker guards and mismatches, um, the
Speaker 1: Lakers would always be able to go small, so that
Speaker 1: the figs that Steph could attack would have to be
Speaker 1: Braun and Anthony Davis, and then you know, but I
Speaker 1: think it would basically come down to the Warrior role players,
Speaker 1: relying on guys like Andrew Wiggins and all of these
Speaker 1: future role players to be named later making a ton
Speaker 1: of shots as the Lakers are scrambling and trapping out
Speaker 1: out of staff, out of pick and roll, and then
Speaker 1: Steph would have to just make an unbelievable amount of
Speaker 1: shots in that midrange area, like kind of like Lou
Speaker 1: Williams just head of steam coming down off of a
Speaker 1: pick and roll um or beating someone off the dribble
Speaker 1: who's overplaying the shot in him just making a huge
Speaker 1: amount of floaters and scoop shots and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, And so that that I do think that
Speaker 1: you know, you have to understand. Like I I am
Speaker 1: a Steph fan. I think he's the second best player
Speaker 1: in the league right now. I'm a huge believer in
Speaker 1: what he does offensively. I think he's a much better
Speaker 1: player than Kawhi Leonard. But I just think that this
Speaker 1: particular matchup kind of plays into the Lakers hands in
Speaker 1: the sense that that their scheme there, the way that
Speaker 1: they're constructed, is kind of a scheme that theoretically could
Speaker 1: give the Warriors some issues. If that makes sense, Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. And I think I think it's kind of
Speaker 1: like it's similar on the on the opposite end as well,
Speaker 1: where I mean Karr has seen Lebron in the playoffs
Speaker 1: for four times. I pretty sure we've seen Anton Davis
Speaker 1: twice now. Obviously Anthony Davis is a much better player
Speaker 1: now um and Lebron and even in some ways it's
Speaker 1: even better than he was now, which is ridiculous. But
Speaker 1: but then they've always kind of like scheme to keep
Speaker 1: them away from the basket as much as possible. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the personnel then was a little bit different than it
Speaker 1: is now, but hypothetically, if they get a similar personnel,
Speaker 1: they can kind of force them into the same type
Speaker 1: of looks they were given before. Not that they weren't
Speaker 1: having success, but a lot of times we they forced Lebron.
Speaker 1: It's a passing two guys that that are necessarily aren't
Speaker 1: necessarily beat shooters. But like you said, you're going to
Speaker 1: force your role players to kind of hit shots, and
Speaker 1: I think is I think it kind of comes down
Speaker 1: to how well the superstars can kind of navigate those
Speaker 1: schemes and how well the role guys can kind of
Speaker 1: like step up and hit the time of shots to
Speaker 1: they that they are going to need to hit. So
Speaker 1: I mean that just mattering Stephan leron are the best
Speaker 1: in the world that at that kind of thing. That's
Speaker 1: what would make that match up exactly. Um. And the
Speaker 1: last thing I'll say about it is like, as far
Speaker 1: as I'm concerned, one of the biggest things that people
Speaker 1: forget about the Warriors because they were such an electric
Speaker 1: offense and they and you know, Steph Curry revolutionized the
Speaker 1: game in the way that we guard perimeter players and
Speaker 1: the way that perimeter players developed their game. There's so
Speaker 1: much focus on what the Warriors offense did. People forget
Speaker 1: that they were the best defense in the league in
Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen, and I think the best defense
Speaker 1: in the league again in two thousands sixteen or top
Speaker 1: two both of those years for sure. And so from
Speaker 1: that standpoint, like like like that, the same thing happened
Speaker 1: with the Lakers this year. Like there was all of
Speaker 1: this focus on Lebron and him leading the league and
Speaker 1: assists and Anthony Davis averaging you know, twenty nine points
Speaker 1: a game and all of this stuff, and it totally
Speaker 1: took the focus away from the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: when I was projecting these playoffs series, all I could
Speaker 1: think was, uh, this Laker defense is the best defense
Speaker 1: in the league. And when it comes to that, when
Speaker 1: it comes down to a uh to Lebron controlling the
Speaker 1: pace and slowing everything down and keeping things in the
Speaker 1: half court on the defensive end, and and getting out
Speaker 1: and transition selectively when it fits. You know, their numbers
Speaker 1: and stuff there was it was just extremely difficult for
Speaker 1: everybody to score. And that was what I noticed, and
Speaker 1: that was the reason why they were winning. It had
Speaker 1: very little to do with what they did on the
Speaker 1: offensive end of the floor. They could have been, you know,
Speaker 1: that significantly lesser offensive team in my opinion, and still
Speaker 1: won the title because of how much their defense carried
Speaker 1: them for those stretches. And so from that standpoint, like
Speaker 1: to me projecting the Warriors as I get into next season,
Speaker 1: as I'm watching offseason move as I'm watching the first
Speaker 1: ten fifteen games of the season, the number one thing
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be watching when I'm thinking about what I
Speaker 1: can see this team achieving this year, it's gonna it's
Speaker 1: gonna all depend on the defensive end, because I know
Speaker 1: that Stephen Clay and Raymond over the course of a
Speaker 1: season will figure out the offense. I don't care who
Speaker 1: what role players they bring in. I don't care how
Speaker 1: much Andrew Wiggins struggles. I don't care who they end
Speaker 1: up facing the playoffs. I know that they are going
Speaker 1: to be able to generate quality offense. That is that
Speaker 1: is the biggest given of the century. The number one
Speaker 1: question mark for this team will be can they get
Speaker 1: into a playoff series with the team like the Clippers,
Speaker 1: who are likely to be much better next year and
Speaker 1: a team like the Lakers who are as dialed in
Speaker 1: defensively as you'll see from any team this decade. Can
Speaker 1: they at least get close to that level defensively to
Speaker 1: where their offensive prowess can carry them over the top.
Speaker 1: And and that'll be the thing to watch over the
Speaker 1: next Uh, what's gonna be what like two or three
Speaker 1: weeks now? With the way that shaping up, Yeah, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: but yeah that's I feel the same exact way. So
Speaker 1: it's definitely gonna come down to to feel in those
Speaker 1: pieces and thinking defense first. When you're feeling in those pieces,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of a lot of guys are
Speaker 1: kind of attractive towards fens because they can generate some audence.
Speaker 1: So they can provide like some type of offense. And
Speaker 1: it's like at the at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: Steph and Clay are gonna, like you said, they're going
Speaker 1: to generate offense like no other duo that that we've seen,
Speaker 1: and like even you can see in the finals. Granted,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're you will maintain the stance that
Speaker 1: the Lakers took a few games off on defense, but
Speaker 1: we saw like the stuff that Dr Robinson and Tyler
Speaker 1: Harrod was able to generate is when you can shoot
Speaker 1: that well, it's kind of you have to go out
Speaker 1: of your way to to not at least generate some
Speaker 1: type of offense at a high level. Um. So I'm
Speaker 1: not even worried about the offense at all. It's more
Speaker 1: so about bringing defense and bring in the vegativity with
Speaker 1: the lineup that we can were able to throw out.
Speaker 1: I do think that the Warriors and the Lakers have
Speaker 1: the best chance to bring in high quality veteran players
Speaker 1: that are discounted. Um. The main reason because like you know,
Speaker 1: if if I'm looking, if I'm looking as a veteran player,
Speaker 1: just like put yourself in these shoes, you're a player
Speaker 1: that money is no longer really a concern like, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you could go make seven or eight million somewhere else,
Speaker 1: but you'd rather, you know, be in a better situation,
Speaker 1: a dream situation, and make four or five million, for instance.
Speaker 1: If you're in that situation, I think you're looking at
Speaker 1: two main concerns. One is winning, and then two is
Speaker 1: gonna be you know what the quality of the basketball
Speaker 1: and the locker room is going to be. Like right,
Speaker 1: so because both of these teams are in California, is
Speaker 1: a lot like coastal California, so like it's not like
Speaker 1: the location's gonna matter. You're gonna be looking at like,
Speaker 1: am I going to enjoy being in this locker room?
Speaker 1: Am I gonna be? Am I gonna around good guys?
Speaker 1: Am I going to be in it? Because as as
Speaker 1: someone who played in college, you probably understand better than most.
Speaker 1: It's just like I do that, Like, you know, the
Speaker 1: quality of the locker room is a huge impact on
Speaker 1: the on how much fun the season is. I I
Speaker 1: played on two different junior college rosters and an an
Speaker 1: ai A roster, and in each situation, like I I
Speaker 1: got all into the spectrum. I got an average team
Speaker 1: as far as chemistry goes I was on a team
Speaker 1: that all loved each other, and then I was on
Speaker 1: a team of juco guys that all were out for
Speaker 1: themselves and and and the coach was terrible and everything
Speaker 1: under the sun. So from that state point, like, if
Speaker 1: you're a veteran, you're looking at those things. And so
Speaker 1: if I'm looking for winning, uh, you know, the Lakers
Speaker 1: are a great selection, and obviously the Warriors are too,
Speaker 1: But mainly that locker room piece, Like, why in the
Speaker 1: world am I going to risk a Clipper locker room
Speaker 1: that has the potential to be an absolute dumpster fire.
Speaker 1: Why in the world am I going to risk a
Speaker 1: Philly locker room that's gonna be a dumpster fire? Why
Speaker 1: in the heck would I risk You know, Boston who
Speaker 1: is famously has a fan base that's a bunch of
Speaker 1: you know, Mount breathers. You know, like, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of different reasons why you're not going to pick the teams.
Speaker 1: But I know for a fact that the Lakers had
Speaker 1: one of the best locker room chemistry situations in the
Speaker 1: league this year. And I know for the fact that
Speaker 1: Steph Curry is one of the best leaders in the
Speaker 1: history of the NBA, and that if I'm in that
Speaker 1: locker room, I'm gonna be happy. And so from that
Speaker 1: same point, I think that that gives them a huge
Speaker 1: advantage moving forward. And then lastly, before we move on
Speaker 1: to some of this fun stuff, the I am excited
Speaker 1: to watch Steph Curry this year because you know, I
Speaker 1: am a big believer in what he does. And if
Speaker 1: there's one huge side effect of the Kevin duran move
Speaker 1: to Golden State, it's that it clouded a lot of
Speaker 1: the perception of his career in the sense that like
Speaker 1: if you're if you are a detractor, if you are
Speaker 1: a person that you know wants to root against Steph
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, there's all the ammunition in the world
Speaker 1: based on Kevin Durant and based on the two thousand
Speaker 1: sixteen loss, and based on the two thousand nineteen loss
Speaker 1: to paint him in a certain light. And it's unfair
Speaker 1: because if Kevin Durant wasn't there, we'd have another three
Speaker 1: years of evidence of of what type of player he is.
Speaker 1: You know, uh as that undisputed best player on the team.
Speaker 1: And I believe that had Kevin Durant not gone there,
Speaker 1: he probably still would have won one of the last
Speaker 1: three titles or or maybe more, who knows, but I
Speaker 1: think and I think he would be perceived in a
Speaker 1: different way. And so kind of like what Lebron had
Speaker 1: this year for the Lakers as a as a season
Speaker 1: where he quote unquote reminded everybody, you know, just how
Speaker 1: good he is, I think this is Staff's opportunity for that.
Speaker 1: And I'm really really excited to see, you know, a big,
Speaker 1: giant f U season from him to remind everybody just
Speaker 1: how good he is and what he's capable of. And uh.
Speaker 1: And then obviously we're gonna have one of the greatest
Speaker 1: late round playoff you know, matchup between the three really
Speaker 1: really really good Western Conference teams and in the teams
Speaker 1: in the East. It's gonna be as good as as
Speaker 1: as we've seen in NBA history. But I'm just really
Speaker 1: excited to watch stuff this year. And uh, and I'm
Speaker 1: excited to see what he can bring to the table.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure. Um, I don't know if Carr
Speaker 1: is gonna gonna fully let him off the leash, well
Speaker 1: like like Luke Walton did in the beginning of that
Speaker 1: season when when Carr wasn't there and they just kind
Speaker 1: of went on that crazy run they give me like
Speaker 1: another game or something like that. But yeah, I'm excited
Speaker 1: to um. The twenty nineteen finals was kind of like
Speaker 1: another opportunity for him to kind of just like shut
Speaker 1: everybody up. Kind of came up short there, so I thought,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's in the back of his mind too,
Speaker 1: So I'm sure we're gonna see some some crazy stuff
Speaker 1: from them this year. And the two thousand nineteen Finals
Speaker 1: is a great example of what we're talking about in
Speaker 1: this roster construction in the sense that, like, like that
Speaker 1: team after Kevin Durant went down, because they were constructed
Speaker 1: in a top heavy way, their lack of depth is
Speaker 1: what killed them against the Raptors. And you know, I've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of guys. Tommy has gotten a lot
Speaker 1: of crap from Warriors fans for being too hard on
Speaker 1: Step for that two thousand nineteen series in my opinion,
Speaker 1: But the reality is is that like, um, you know
Speaker 1: what ended up swinging that series when their stars went
Speaker 1: down was they were relying too much on players who
Speaker 1: didn't have any idea how to impact winning on that level,
Speaker 1: uh in specific times and even even in tiny roles.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what ended up swinging that. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, so you are the most experienced hooper that
Speaker 1: I've had, Uh come on this podcast. I know Tommy
Speaker 1: played a little bit in college too. But what what
Speaker 1: I'm really interested in here is the fact that you
Speaker 1: kind of grew up in a different area of the country,
Speaker 1: because you know, and I know from when I lived
Speaker 1: in Charlotte that like, the hoop culture is just completely
Speaker 1: different as you get onto different areas of the country,
Speaker 1: and the Southwest is very unique, and that it's a
Speaker 1: lot of duotes from l A and Phoenix, and and
Speaker 1: then you get in the East Coast and it's completely different.
Speaker 1: And I've I've never been up into the New York
Speaker 1: or into up into the further northeast area. And you
Speaker 1: said you're in Pennsylvania, right, Yeah, yeah, where do you
Speaker 1: live right now? You live in New York. I'm in
Speaker 1: d C. D C. Okay, run on. Uh, here's great
Speaker 1: hoop there too. But what I wanted you to start
Speaker 1: with is, just uh tell me a little bit about Like, Um,
Speaker 1: everybody's got their list. Everybody's played in college has their
Speaker 1: list of NBA players that they've played with at various
Speaker 1: levels and various settings. So why don't you tell me
Speaker 1: about the NBA players that you've played against in various
Speaker 1: hoop settings over the last few years. Okay, um, I'll start.
Speaker 1: I guess I started in high school. Um. It was
Speaker 1: actually my very last game in high school. We have
Speaker 1: just had like a pretty successful season, came from the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but we were good enough to to be asked to
Speaker 1: come into like a citywide lie tournament. Um. And we
Speaker 1: got to play Sidwell Friends in the first in the
Speaker 1: first round of that tournament, who at the time had
Speaker 1: Josh Hart there, um in his season, Yeah, getting ready
Speaker 1: to go to Villanova. Um, so I messed up with him.
Speaker 1: It was it was a pretty cool experience, Like I have,
Speaker 1: I played pretty well when I said like the twenty
Speaker 1: years something points, right, But he at a certain point
Speaker 1: just kind of flipped that like I'm going to the
Speaker 1: league switch kind of like he just kind of like
Speaker 1: ended the game on his own. Like I think we
Speaker 1: were we were close, and at what point you just
Speaker 1: like stole a passing lane pass and just kind of
Speaker 1: just like went up when Mill dunked or something like that.
Speaker 1: And at that point we were just like okay, like
Speaker 1: he's kind of like above us. But UM, that was
Speaker 1: a cool experience. And then UM in college my senior year,
Speaker 1: we actually got a chance to play against Kentucky. UM.
Speaker 1: Really Yeah. So the story is John Parry went to
Speaker 1: Clarion and played there four years, so UM, he always
Speaker 1: has that connection with us. UM. And when John Wall
Speaker 1: was there, they set up that exhibition game as well,
Speaker 1: and they blasted Clarion, so we got a chance to
Speaker 1: play them again and he flew us so he got
Speaker 1: us down to Kentucky, which is probably like uh four
Speaker 1: or five hour drive from from where we were pretty
Speaker 1: close to Ohio, so we just went straight through to Kentucky. UM.
Speaker 1: And we we end up playing the baron FOXX to
Speaker 1: Malik Monk Bam out the bio team UM, and they
Speaker 1: absolutely destroyed Asleep. And I want to say they had
Speaker 1: five five in big players. I know those three for
Speaker 1: sure win UM, Isaiah Briscoe had like a short stint
Speaker 1: in the G League and U UM Winning Gabriel, who's
Speaker 1: obviously just playing for the Trail Bays in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: was also on that team. And they had a bunch
Speaker 1: of other veterans and and it was it was kind
Speaker 1: of closed for like the first two minutes. Um, it
Speaker 1: was like thirteen to ten or something like that, and
Speaker 1: then we we just got blasted by them. And the
Speaker 1: funny thing about that game is, I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's exactly like true the story is true, but the
Speaker 1: story is that we were um pretty much presented with
Speaker 1: an option to only go man, no zone at all.
Speaker 1: We were we were preparing to go zone because obviously
Speaker 1: we couldn't match up with them athletically, so we had
Speaker 1: to give ourselves a chance, um somehow defensively. So we
Speaker 1: were preparing the whole week for the team to go zone.
Speaker 1: Um and apparently John called parties like there's no zone here,
Speaker 1: like this is our first game interrupt for the season,
Speaker 1: the fans are expecting the show. We need you guys
Speaker 1: to go man or like pretty the deals off like
Speaker 1: that type of thing. Yeah, So our man principles are
Speaker 1: like full core press because in our in our conference,
Speaker 1: where like we were probably one of more faster teams,
Speaker 1: we had full corp press the whole game. And we
Speaker 1: brought that to Kentucky and Darren Fox was just like
Speaker 1: eating uself, like blowing past us, like couldn't we couldn't
Speaker 1: trapping because we couldn't catch him to trapping, so Lobb
Speaker 1: City mob after mob, like and it was from there.
Speaker 1: That's so, that's so unfair that he did that to
Speaker 1: you guys in such short notice, I know, right, Like
Speaker 1: you guys didn't know at the time. So you were
Speaker 1: in the opening huddle of the game and the coach
Speaker 1: was like, hey, listen, we're gone, man, and you're like, okay, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like the night before or before something like that. Yeah, gosh,
Speaker 1: we had we had a similar experience with when I
Speaker 1: was at Arizona Christian University, which was the n A
Speaker 1: I school I played at. We this is actually a
Speaker 1: great example of my overarching ideology on age because our
Speaker 1: backcourt was a thirty year old Navy veteran because you
Speaker 1: can do your eligibility pauses when you serve, and then
Speaker 1: a thirty one year old dude um who was like
Speaker 1: an All American that year, like one of the best
Speaker 1: players in the country and uh. And then I, like,
Speaker 1: I was one of the younger guys on the team,
Speaker 1: and I was twenty two, and I had already played
Speaker 1: in junior college few years and all that stuff. So
Speaker 1: we played the same thing like a tune up game.
Speaker 1: Was supposed to be a tune up game at a
Speaker 1: Big Sky Conference team, the Northern Arizona University and Flagstaff
Speaker 1: And so they're like a mid major Division one team
Speaker 1: and we were just an n A I A team
Speaker 1: and you know, they're they're all ready for their you know,
Speaker 1: their version of that Kentucky Opening Night ask beating, and
Speaker 1: the crowd is already and we went out we just
Speaker 1: we just beat them. We just beat them because we
Speaker 1: were we were older, we were smarter and uh and
Speaker 1: uh from that standpoint, like we uh and we were
Speaker 1: one of the best n ai A teams in the country.
Speaker 1: We were in and out of the top five all
Speaker 1: season and like, uh, yeah, we just we just beat him.
Speaker 1: And it was crazy and I'll never forget. Like after
Speaker 1: the game, the I've read an article from the local
Speaker 1: paper and the head coach did an interview from n
Speaker 1: a U and he's like, yeah, that wasn't an upset.
Speaker 1: They were just a better team than us, like and
Speaker 1: he was just like that, and I think he was
Speaker 1: doing it to try to like rile up his guys
Speaker 1: and try to get, you know, a little bit of
Speaker 1: motivation out of him. But yeah, it was crazy. The
Speaker 1: same thing like we were just but like I trust me,
Speaker 1: had we gone to Kentucky, we would have gotten absolutely murdered.
Speaker 1: We weren't that, but so we were really good an
Speaker 1: ai A team. And and I think that's one of
Speaker 1: one of the greatest examples I used for people who uh,
Speaker 1: you know, played because I've seen I've seen enough of
Speaker 1: your your athleticism and watching you play that I know
Speaker 1: that you could have played Division One at least if
Speaker 1: I dropped you in a in a random Division one
Speaker 1: practice right now, you'd be able to play. You know,
Speaker 1: I know you can and I know I could too.
Speaker 1: But like everybody has their story, and you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I did to start playing, so I was twenty and
Speaker 1: you know there's a two there's a five year clock.
Speaker 1: So after my two years in junior college were up,
Speaker 1: no Division one would would touch me for one season.
Speaker 1: You know, I had Division one coaches that because I
Speaker 1: was All conference my last year in junior college, and
Speaker 1: I have coaches call the the the my program and
Speaker 1: be like, what's the deal with this guy? And they'd
Speaker 1: have to be like these one year of eligibility and
Speaker 1: they would all like just immediately drop contact. And I
Speaker 1: actually actually got to the point where I told the
Speaker 1: coach to stop telling me about it because it was
Speaker 1: like depressing for me to like because like everything I
Speaker 1: was playing in Utah's like every school in Utah offered
Speaker 1: me are called the school, and every single time I
Speaker 1: was just like, look, just I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: it anymore. This is depressing exactly. The point is is like,
Speaker 1: you know, we played small school basketball, and the truth
Speaker 1: of the matter is is like you know, uh, small
Speaker 1: school basketball is really really really competitive, and the players
Speaker 1: are really really good. And the truth is I can
Speaker 1: take a lot of D ones and drop them into
Speaker 1: Kentucky for opening night against here and Fox and they
Speaker 1: would get rolled. And and that's that's just the way
Speaker 1: that basketball works. Yeah, a lot of people just kind
Speaker 1: of have this misconception that like if you're not the one,
Speaker 1: then you're not good or something like that. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of D one players that aren't good and how
Speaker 1: to D two in a N A A and like
Speaker 1: even D three players that can they can play with
Speaker 1: those D ones for whatever reason, they just aren't there.
Speaker 1: Um they got I think really starts to show itself.
Speaker 1: Um when you get like high high major like those guys.
Speaker 1: And even then, like you said, at age can be
Speaker 1: the difference that that can that can make those guys lose,
Speaker 1: like when it comes to Timantum or whatever case may be,
Speaker 1: And it's not. It's not until like later on in
Speaker 1: life where they've become like NBA players and superstar and
Speaker 1: stuff like that, would they really kind of just like
Speaker 1: take away from from like the other guys. But the
Speaker 1: gap between these divisions and these different conferences in schools
Speaker 1: is not as big as people make it seem. Yeah. Agree,
Speaker 1: and uh actually so this old segue into my next story.
Speaker 1: So I've played, I wrote down the list of NBA
Speaker 1: players that I played against. Obviously, in Tucson, the vast
Speaker 1: majority of NBA players that come through here go to
Speaker 1: the uv um to the on the top of my mind,
Speaker 1: I can't remember a Tucson local and made it to
Speaker 1: the NBA. The best player locally um that people might
Speaker 1: recognize that went to high school here and came through
Speaker 1: here would be guys like either Bryce Cotton who played
Speaker 1: in the n Yeah, that's try. Bryce Cotton played the NBA. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you remember Bryce Cotton. He was a little guard.
Speaker 1: He played for the Spurs. He played for the Jazz
Speaker 1: and now he's the m v P of the A
Speaker 1: D of the league in the NBL in Australia. Like that,
Speaker 1: I've definitely heard. So he just won the MVP of
Speaker 1: the NBL in Australia. I think he's one of two
Speaker 1: years in a row. But he went to he went
Speaker 1: to local high school here in Tucson. He played for
Speaker 1: a handful of NBA teams briefly, and now he's like
Speaker 1: the best player in that league over there. So he
Speaker 1: just makes more money. So that's why he doesn't come back.
Speaker 1: And then like uh, Terrelso going to play at the
Speaker 1: University of Maryland, Lefty score was like over two points
Speaker 1: a game in the a SEC. Then he's played in
Speaker 1: a bunch of different leagues overseas. Uh, he's actually the
Speaker 1: guy who hosts the private run here in Tucson that
Speaker 1: I play and all the time now. But so those
Speaker 1: are the only like local guys, but through from the
Speaker 1: U of A. Uh, most of you guys know Alonso Treer.
Speaker 1: I played with him a bunch. Ronde Hollis, Jefferson, T
Speaker 1: J McConnell, Nick Johnson, Kittymowen, Justice Winslow, actually Justice Winslow.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you guys that was a different story. Aaron Gordon,
Speaker 1: Derrick Williams, Solomon Hill, and Raley Alkins. There are a
Speaker 1: couple of guys like, uh, um, what's the big White
Speaker 1: due to place for the bulls LORI marking in, he
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, never was around when I was playing,
Speaker 1: Like he was here while I was here, but I
Speaker 1: just never ran into him for whatever reason. But those
Speaker 1: are the guys that I remember seeing. And then the
Speaker 1: last one is Stanley Johnson, which leads me to this story.
Speaker 1: So and it's a great example of just the like
Speaker 1: I was talking about, like the winning and the way
Speaker 1: that changes as you get older. So Stanley Johnson was
Speaker 1: you know, six ft five you know something pounds just
Speaker 1: britt super super good athlete. Um, but in high school
Speaker 1: he was bigger and stronger than everybody. And so, uh,
Speaker 1: I had been out of college for about a year
Speaker 1: and I was still in pretty good shape, like as
Speaker 1: close to top shape as I as I had been.
Speaker 1: And I was about twenty five years old, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, just like kind of peaking somewhat so to speak,
Speaker 1: as a basketball player. And most importantly, I waited as
Speaker 1: much as Stanley Johnson did, so he came to UH.
Speaker 1: So him and t J McConnell and could Em Allen
Speaker 1: ended up coming to UH to the rec center at
Speaker 1: the uv A to play with just a bunch of
Speaker 1: you know, regular kids, and I happened to be there
Speaker 1: on the court when they came. And of course, like
Speaker 1: this is the important disclaimer where you have to understand that,
Speaker 1: like Stanley Johnson was probably you know, in mess around
Speaker 1: about when he came into the to the gym. But uh,
Speaker 1: I'm not wired that way. I'm the kind of guy that, like,
Speaker 1: even in a random pickup game to this day and
Speaker 1: I'm twenty nine, I just take it super seriously. I've
Speaker 1: just always been wired in that way that I just
Speaker 1: hate losing so much that I'm just wired in a
Speaker 1: way when I'm playing that I take it super seriously.
Speaker 1: So I started going at Stanley Johnson early in the game,
Speaker 1: and uh it became clear that he needed to take
Speaker 1: it more seriously. And I started playing like five feet
Speaker 1: off of him because he couldn't shoot. And then when
Speaker 1: he would try to drive into me and bullying me,
Speaker 1: he couldn't bullying me because I was as strong as it.
Speaker 1: Because at that age as an eighteen year old kid,
Speaker 1: he was against other eighteen year old kids. He was
Speaker 1: a grown man, but against grown men, he was just
Speaker 1: another guy, you know. And uh, and then I also
Speaker 1: ended up like just kind of focusing on all those
Speaker 1: little things to win, like breaking open when he would
Speaker 1: turn away from me, or cutting back door and all
Speaker 1: these like little things that would help win games. And
Speaker 1: we ended up winning. And I remember, uh, like literally
Speaker 1: the rest of that year when I would run into Stanley,
Speaker 1: he'd always like take it super super seriously when you
Speaker 1: play against me. And I tell that story just because
Speaker 1: like Stanley Johnson is a is five hundred times the
Speaker 1: basketball player that I am, especially now, and even in
Speaker 1: that particular season, and that at that point in his life,
Speaker 1: he was probably a lot better than me. But the
Speaker 1: point is is that, like you know, when you're a
Speaker 1: grown man and you've been playing for a long time
Speaker 1: and you understand how to win, and you're grown into
Speaker 1: your body, like it's just if you put an eighteen
Speaker 1: year old kid in that environment, he's at a disadvantage.
Speaker 1: And that standpoint, like that's a that's another great example
Speaker 1: of how like like you, they're like Doug Christie used
Speaker 1: to take it to Lebron or Lebron's two thousand three.
Speaker 1: You know in two it's just really really difficult for
Speaker 1: for teenagers to compete against grown men at that level.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so that's my favorite. That's my favorite story
Speaker 1: of an NBA player that I've like gone head to
Speaker 1: head with and had a bunch of success. Um, I've
Speaker 1: played against a bunch of guys where that hasn't been
Speaker 1: the case. But do you do you have any other
Speaker 1: stories along those lines that you can share. I don't
Speaker 1: know about any necessary stories like that, but I guess
Speaker 1: I'll go through my list. Um, and middle school actually
Speaker 1: matched up with Jeremy Grant. Oh really okay, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like middle school championships today. He played for Holy
Speaker 1: Trinity I believe that's the name of the school. They
Speaker 1: were in Maryland and my school to DC, and we
Speaker 1: just kind of like played for the area. We ended
Speaker 1: up winning, which is, uh, it's pretty cool. So we
Speaker 1: played Jeff played Jeremy, but obviously played against Josh Harden
Speaker 1: high school. Um, I played against Marcus Derrickson, who with
Speaker 1: the Georgetown he was he was like in out of
Speaker 1: the G League I think recently. Obviously the Kentucky guys
Speaker 1: play against Tim Fraser. I gotta, I gotta, I guess
Speaker 1: I got a story for Malcolm Brogden. I played against
Speaker 1: Malcolm Brogden in like a local proram league, the recently league.
Speaker 1: They hold it at Georgetown UM, and he was just
Speaker 1: like completely in control of the game the entire time,
Speaker 1: Like it was really nothing. He just I don't think
Speaker 1: he scored. Yeah, he's just like so strong and like
Speaker 1: he was just nobody can move him off the spot
Speaker 1: where he wanted to go. He got there. Is just
Speaker 1: he just controlled the game and it was over pretty quickly. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's off the top of my head. That's all I
Speaker 1: got right now. Yeah. So, uh, the last story that
Speaker 1: I'll share because a lot of these guys so like, uh,
Speaker 1: Stanley was in the open gym just at the rec center.
Speaker 1: I'm messing around Alonso tree Er. I only ran into
Speaker 1: him messing around at the rec center. Uh. He just
Speaker 1: I was blown away that he ended up being such
Speaker 1: a good NBA player because he I he would he
Speaker 1: I thought that he like I thought at the University
Speaker 1: of Arizona that he was a little sporadic from a
Speaker 1: basketball act standpoint, and then whenever I'd see him in person,
Speaker 1: I always thought he was too small, like he just
Speaker 1: wasn't that impressive of an athlete. And I he proved
Speaker 1: me way wrong because he went to the league and
Speaker 1: ended up being like a legitimate backup scorer off the bench. Uh,
Speaker 1: Stanley Johnson was only at the rec center. Uh. Let's
Speaker 1: see Derrick Williams. I ran into when I was eighteen
Speaker 1: years old at a random like a random city league game,
Speaker 1: Like I don't know how the hell at it because
Speaker 1: he was at school at the time. I don't know
Speaker 1: why he was there, but he absolutely destroyed all of us. Um.
Speaker 1: Solomon Hill was at a random open gym that I
Speaker 1: went to that was at McHale Center, which is where
Speaker 1: they actually play their games. But um, I got invited
Speaker 1: to so my buddy. So I went to a local
Speaker 1: high school here in Tucson, and there was a guy
Speaker 1: named uh Matt Cortcheck who was a big man who
Speaker 1: played at our school. Sixten just your stereotypical like uh,
Speaker 1: I think, like, uh, what's his name? He played for
Speaker 1: the Thunder with Kevin Durant forever. Um the big white
Speaker 1: dude Nicholson just like that type of dude, just big
Speaker 1: six ten, hard playing, hard type of guy. So he
Speaker 1: he played junior college here in Arizona, and then he
Speaker 1: ended up getting UH signed by Arizona and he never
Speaker 1: got to play really because he was trapped behind Aaron
Speaker 1: Gordon and UH and Brandon Ashley and all of those
Speaker 1: guys that came through the UV so he just all
Speaker 1: NBA players, So he just didn't get that, didn't get
Speaker 1: to play much. But unfortunately, through his connection, because him
Speaker 1: and I were really good friends, he was in my
Speaker 1: wedding like he would invite me to all of their
Speaker 1: private open gym runs, and so they have. Richard Jefferson
Speaker 1: donated a ton of money back to the u B
Speaker 1: years ago and they built this place called the Richard
Speaker 1: Jefferson Center. It's just this unbelievable practice facility. So one
Speaker 1: day over the summer, I happened to be back in
Speaker 1: town between my two seasons, and Uh, literally he invites
Speaker 1: me to this open run and I walked in. I'm
Speaker 1: just expecting it to be like a handful of guys
Speaker 1: that were on the team and then you know, maybe
Speaker 1: guys from around town, and Uh, for whatever reason, happened
Speaker 1: to be at the same time that Justice Winslow was
Speaker 1: on his visit. So at this point, So at this point,
Speaker 1: Justice Winslow and Stanley Johnson were both the two recruits
Speaker 1: that Arizona was fighting over, and uh uh, Justice Winslow
Speaker 1: had an offer from Duke, and Arizona wanted Justice Winslow
Speaker 1: over Stanley, but they ended up taking Stanley when Duke.
Speaker 1: When Duke signed Justice Winslow, but Justice Winslow was on
Speaker 1: his visit, so Sean Miller wanted all the guys there
Speaker 1: for this open run. M So next thing you know,
Speaker 1: I end up in this game where literally like it's
Speaker 1: uh t. J McConnell was there, Aaron Gordon was there,
Speaker 1: Um Kid em Allen was there, Nick Johnson was there,
Speaker 1: and Justice Winslow was there, and then there were I'm
Speaker 1: blanking on some of the other names, but there was
Speaker 1: some dude who was recently the player of the year
Speaker 1: in the Big Ten Conference, and like a bunch of
Speaker 1: these like huge names just happened to be in the
Speaker 1: area and it proceeded to be like the most ridiculous
Speaker 1: string of pickup games that I've ever played in my
Speaker 1: entire life. Like it was like I was rarely involved,
Speaker 1: like I did end up catching a lob from t
Speaker 1: J McConnell, and I just did my job like spot
Speaker 1: up shooting and defending and stuff like I wasn't about
Speaker 1: to go solo dolo and when I'm on the court,
Speaker 1: as you know, but like like just one play, like
Speaker 1: I'm trailing Nick Johnson on defense and Nick Johnson's running
Speaker 1: the length of the floor and I like kind of
Speaker 1: run with him and jump with him to keep him
Speaker 1: off of the to keep him from taking a layup,
Speaker 1: and he just throws a drop off pass and I
Speaker 1: like quick turnaround and Aaron Gordon's just literally flying down
Speaker 1: the way and just put both the third one handed
Speaker 1: dunk like like thank god, I got out of the
Speaker 1: way kind of thing, and just uh like literally And
Speaker 1: a lot of those guys hadn't played in the NBA. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like Nick Johnson hadn't made it to the league yet.
Speaker 1: T J McConnell hadn't made it to the league yet.
Speaker 1: I had no idea how good Justice Winslow would be
Speaker 1: or any of those guys. But like it's funny looking
Speaker 1: back at that now, because like at the time, I
Speaker 1: had no idea that I was playing with like six
Speaker 1: dudes who would be in the NBA in a couple
Speaker 1: of years, you know. But it's fun It's funny that
Speaker 1: you randomly just will find yourselves in situations like that
Speaker 1: without even really being ready for Like now, like who
Speaker 1: the hell would think that you'd go to that game
Speaker 1: one day and then Malcolm Brocken the whole time, you know,
Speaker 1: but you just randomly suiting up and I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: carry today. Like the hardest thing you'll find is like
Speaker 1: that I've noticed is like, um, you'll get super highths
Speaker 1: and you'll be on adrenaline and you'll be playing your
Speaker 1: ass off, and and there's always that phase at the
Speaker 1: beginning where the other dude doesn't really know your style,
Speaker 1: he doesn't know how you play. He's definitely not your effort.
Speaker 1: That you can kind of gain a little bit of
Speaker 1: an edge, and then all of a sudden, like they
Speaker 1: realize that you think that you're getting a little bit
Speaker 1: of an edge, and it clicks their compreditive instinct and
Speaker 1: then they start dialing it up and they then you
Speaker 1: can't do anything with them, you know, And like that,
Speaker 1: like even with Stanley Johnson at the end of the year,
Speaker 1: because I ran into him at the beginning of the year,
Speaker 1: at the end of the year, after his full season,
Speaker 1: when he really went through Arizona strength and conditioning program,
Speaker 1: and he was even bigger and even stronger, Like there's
Speaker 1: nothing I could do with him physically at that point.
Speaker 1: Like it's just it's just unbelievable that the level of
Speaker 1: athletes that those guys are and just in the skill
Speaker 1: to go with it, you know, it's ridiculous, which is
Speaker 1: crazy because I actually thought Stanley would be a better
Speaker 1: NBA player. I really don't know why I happened. Before
Speaker 1: I let you go, I want to ask you a question, Okay, So, um,
Speaker 1: I've asked everybody that I've had on since the end
Speaker 1: of the season, where where do you have Lebron all
Speaker 1: time after this season? And why? Okay, I have been
Speaker 1: second currently, I'm fairly certain that are that are ranking
Speaker 1: of him is is very similar. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone else is like other than Jordan's being like slightly
Speaker 1: above him. I don't think anyone else has claimed for
Speaker 1: second at this point anymore. It's just like those two
Speaker 1: and in the field. UM, I'd say, um, just the
Speaker 1: dominance that he's shown, like since from the beginning of
Speaker 1: his career, so now, especially once he started like living
Speaker 1: in the finals for like a decade straight, it's just
Speaker 1: kind of like unparalleled, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: it's only the only person that can that can make
Speaker 1: a claim to to Lebron's career is MG at this point. Maybe, UM,
Speaker 1: I guess like Kareem, you could feel Kareem in there
Speaker 1: just because he's he's wracked up some money acculades. Um.
Speaker 1: But like if you look at it from my career standpoint,
Speaker 1: obviously he's probably gonna finish at worst the second, all
Speaker 1: the time leading the score. Um, I think he's gonna
Speaker 1: get first. Um, he's gonna be up there and all
Speaker 1: the time rebounds. Sis. It was like pretty much everything
Speaker 1: playoffs and regular season, which is which is also crazy. Um,
Speaker 1: he has the championships, he has the m v p s,
Speaker 1: he has all NBA's All Defense, All Stars, all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So you look at his resume and how many awards
Speaker 1: he has and all that stuff he has to be there,
Speaker 1: and then you just look at him as a player
Speaker 1: and then it's just like how many players can you
Speaker 1: legit say is a better basketball player than Lebron. It's
Speaker 1: like not really anyone other than maybe Michael, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So I was like, he's definitely second
Speaker 1: at least for me. Yeah, I'm with you. I don't
Speaker 1: think I don't think there's a coherent case for anybody
Speaker 1: to be above him other than m J. I do
Speaker 1: still give an edge to MJ. I think, like with everybody,
Speaker 1: like with Kareem, you can point to the fact that
Speaker 1: you know, when he was winning at the end of
Speaker 1: his career, he was in like not just a supporting role,
Speaker 1: but like like he was the third best player on
Speaker 1: the team there at the end. And when you look
Speaker 1: at uh like Magic, other guys that you would consider
Speaker 1: up in that top five similar circum stances where they're
Speaker 1: their actual period of dominance where they were the best
Speaker 1: player in the league for that stretch of time was
Speaker 1: much shorter. And you know, with with Lebron, like I
Speaker 1: think his opportunity is from this year forward in the
Speaker 1: sense that you know, up to age thirty five, both
Speaker 1: Lebron and MJ just had this decade long, you know,
Speaker 1: stretch where they were either the best player in the
Speaker 1: league or you know, our argument for the best player
Speaker 1: in the league. And I think that um where Lebron
Speaker 1: can really separate himself is to be that guy who's
Speaker 1: thirty seven or thirty six and still somehow better than everybody,
Speaker 1: because that's where you would have to start pointing to,
Speaker 1: just to the longevity of his dominance. But I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I think like I think like the argument for any
Speaker 1: other player over him at number two has kind of
Speaker 1: disappeared after the season. It just doesn't really make any
Speaker 1: sense to me. But I wanted to get I wanted
Speaker 1: to get your feel for it. Um, just because I'm
Speaker 1: gonna ask everybody that I bring on. But hey, justin
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you taking the time. We've been going
Speaker 1: for about an hour. I really appreciate you taking the
Speaker 1: time to make this work. I actually, uh enjoy following
Speaker 1: your fitness related stuff. I tried part of your push
Speaker 1: workout yesterday as part of my chest day. Be the
Speaker 1: one with the five by five by five with the
Speaker 1: triangles and then the uprights and stuff. Uh, keep sharing
Speaker 1: stuff like that. I really like that stuff. We'll do.
Speaker 1: We'll do. Yeah, sure, I appreciate you having me on man.
Speaker 1: Uh if you if you want to check over the Instagram,
Speaker 1: I have like a lot more like in this way
Speaker 1: to stuff. It's like at performance prowess. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure, if you if you want to over there,
Speaker 1: and I'll follow you on Instagram and uh and let's like,
Speaker 1: like I said, I had no idea you were interested
Speaker 1: in doing this kind of thing. So let's get let's
Speaker 1: get back together and do something like this as we
Speaker 1: get closer to the season. Oh for sure, the problem.
Speaker 1: All right, man, I have a good rest of your day.
Speaker 1: You too.