WEBVTT - ITS Home Edition: JP Saxe 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:05.520 My Heart Radio presents Inside the Studio. I'm your host, 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:18.240 Joe Levy. So this week's guest on the home edition 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:21.759 of the show is singer songwriter JP Sachs. You know, 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.400 we put together the home edition of Inside the Studio 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:27.360 to let you know how artists are coping with lockdown 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.680 and how it's impact in the way they make music. 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:33.920 And Jp Sachs's song if the World Was Ending has 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.760 become one of those covid anthems that seems to sum 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.680 up the moment. Maybe you know the original version from 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:44.360 last year, which is a duet with one of the 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.920 greatest songwriters in pop music today and JP's girlfriend, Julia Michaels. 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:52.239 Or maybe you know the new version from this April, 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.000 where twenty six other artists jumped on the track, Sam Smith, 0:00:56.800 --> 0:01:00.840 Kesha and Nil Horan h E. R Key Turban Florida, 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.039 Georgia line. It's a long list and the track benefited 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:09.600 Doctors Without Borders. Our quarantine correspondent Jordan Runtalg caught up 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.440 with Jp to talk about that song and much much more. 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.920 And after you finished checking out this episode, be sure 0:01:15.920 --> 0:01:18.039 to give a listen to the I Heart Radio podcast 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:23.120 that Jordan's hosts rivals Music's Greatest Feuds, which, as the 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:33.400 saying goes, is available wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hello, everybody, 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:36.040 my name is Jordan Runtag, but enough about me. I'm 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.360 joined by a Toronto born singer, songwriter, and self described 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.039 over sharer. You may know him for his collaboration with 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.480 Julia Michaels entitled If the World Was Ending, a song 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:48.480 about connection during times of crisis. Although it was written 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.800 last summer, it's become the theme song for an untold 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.720 number of couples sheltering in place during the Corona pandemic. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:56.240 It can be found on his new EP, Hold It Together, 0:01:56.480 --> 0:01:59.280 which is brimming with soulful vocal work and confessional lyrics 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.520 that may make you laugh, cry and occasionally both at once. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.960 I'm thrilled the welcome JP sex JP, how are you 0:02:06.040 --> 0:02:09.679 think so much? Loves that intro? Thank you very much. 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.679 I did my best laugh price mild think is it's 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:15.880 the emotional spectrum. I want it once. There you go. Yo, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.040 Oh my god, you got that in spades, my friend. 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.840 I've got so many things to ask you, But first off, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.960 congratulations on successive If the World Was Ending, I just 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:27.280 the story behind the song. It's like it's like a 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:29.320 Hollywood movie. I mean, I can tell me a little 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:30.880 bit of how the song came together. First of all, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:32.800 how did you and Julia first link? It's a pretty 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:36.080 crazy story. I'm just now realizing that drinking soda water 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.720 drain interview is such a horrible idea. I will be 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:43.000 like meaningful thought, burp, genuine idea of burp. You're doing 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.400 it too, I'm doing I'm doing it too. I know 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.000 so much. You thought I was a professional. You thought wrong. Well, 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.280 look I got Selzer right with the soda water during 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:52.720 the I'm gonna keep drinking it. We can burp mid 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:56.720 thought together. Um, so perfect segue to the story of 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:01.679 this song. So I would say, I would say the 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.560 first thing that kicked everything off was Julia sharing a 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:09.840 song of mine called in Barcelona on her Instagram story. Um. 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.639 When she shared that story, I got a notific agency. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.559 Julie Michael was a tagulum story. I was mid conversation 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.440 on a road trip about how Julia was the most 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:23.239 influential songwriter of our generation. It was a strange, serendipitous moment. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:27.040 So her and I get talking. She suggests we right, 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:30.080 not long after that, we're in the studio and we 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:32.519 wrote if the World was ending on the day we met. 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.200 That is insane. I mean, I've read that you wrote 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.520 the chorus first, if the world was ending, You'd come 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.240 over right, which is just such an amazing line. It 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.520 really just strips away all the like trivial day to 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.640 day stuff that gets in the way of of love. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.760 Where did that line come from just popping your subconscious 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.400 one day? Or it was actually an attempt at writing 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:54.680 a chorus for another song. So usually the way my 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:56.920 my creative process will work is I'll have a verse 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:59.520 or pre course or course that I love, and then 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.320 I'll try I'm right around it right. So so for 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.160 that song, a song called four thirty in Toronto, which 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.560 will probably be on my album, I had a verse 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:10.880 that I was subsessed with, and I've been trying to 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.200 get the chorus to this verse forever. And if the 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.480 world was ending, you come over right was an attempt 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:20.320 at a course for that verse. It didn't work, but 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.320 I knew I liked if the world was ending, You'd 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.159 come over right as another line, So it kind of 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.960 just like was in my journal living there so often. 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:31.000 My next song will come out of a failed attempt 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.920 at my previous song. Um, so it was there. I 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.200 kind of forgot about it. And then when the earthquakes 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:41.920 in Los Angeles happened around the fourth of July, I 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.680 remember that failed attempt at a chorus if the world 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.880 was ending to come over, right, And then brought into 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:50.880 the session with Julia, and the song came together really fast, right, 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.159 I mean in the same day. Yeah, we wrote the 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.400 song in a couple of hours, and all the all 0:04:55.480 --> 0:04:57.800 the original vocals and original piano from the day we 0:04:57.839 --> 0:05:00.480 wrote it are what's on the record now. Was initially 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.360 intended as a duet? Or was that? Sort of like 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.200 a happy happy accident? It's funny, so you know, sometimes 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:07.719 sessions like that, you don't really know what you're trying 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.280 to do. You're just getting together to be creative. I'm 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:12.200 not sure Julia had it in her mind as a duet, 0:05:12.279 --> 0:05:14.320 but I knew that. I knew it was going to 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:19.160 be a duet. So when I was cutting the second verse, 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:21.440 so she sitting the second verse on the record, But 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:23.800 originally I was I was trying to sing the second 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.279 verse and I couldn't get it right, and it was 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.080 like the most blessed failure I've ever made was not 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.880 being able to sing that second verse because Juliet got 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:36.240 so frustrated with me not being able to go how 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.560 to think about you with that? It ripened my heart out. 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.039 She got so frustrated my inability to sing in that 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.480 rhythm that she was like, functuous, let me do it. 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:45.920 So she comes into the studio to show me how 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.400 to do it. But as soon as she started singing 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:50.880 on the record, I'm like, I'm not coming back like 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.360 you were singing that part. That's how this is gonna go. Now, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:56.719 I got a question about one of your lyrics. Feel 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.640 free to plead the fifth on this Uh that night 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.640 we went drinking, stumbled in the house and didn't make 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:05.640 it past the kitchen. Can relaborate on that. Were you 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:09.159 admiring a new coffee maker, really clean linoleum? I think 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:16.520 I think it's about the potential of a kitchen island. Now, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.320 was there a moment when you knew that this song 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:22.960 was was really something special? Yeah? Honestly, like I had 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.200 a I had recorded a voice note of Ben Rice, 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:29.680 who engineered all the vocals and piano. On the first session, 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:32.000 I had a voice note of the playback at the 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:34.680 end of the day, so before he mixed anything, And 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:36.920 I must have listened to that voice note, which is 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.320 that's like an incognito thing, like I'm not sure they 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:41.320 knew I did it. I did that. I must have 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.680 listened to it like a hundred times. Now at the time, 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.920 I wasn't sure if I was just excited because Julia 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:49.160 was on it, or it was this new song, or 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.680 hearing our voices together felt really exciting and special. But 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.000 I knew I loved it from the jump. I think 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.440 it took Julie a little bit longer. I think at 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:02.320 the end of the day, like that's all we can 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.400 never really do as an artists. Just make yourself love 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.200 a song and that enough people are share your taste 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:20.440 that they're gonna love it too. The sort of state 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:22.720 the obvious here, you released a song with the chorus 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:24.720 if the world was ending, you'd come over right on 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.720 the eve of a global pandemic lockdown. I mean the 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.400 timing is you know, I mean you get people saying like, 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.040 are you part of the psychic Friends network? I mean 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:36.280 the timing is nuts. How do you feel knowing that 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.440 a lot of couples are using this as sort of 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.480 their their quarantine theme right now. Yeah, we get accused 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:46.040 of insider information on Twitter a lot um and I've 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.120 I've clarified many times that we had no idea when 0:07:49.200 --> 0:07:52.120 we wrote the song. July came out of October we 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:56.000 had we had not heard of anything related to coronavirus 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.120 at that time. How does it feeling? I mean, I 0:07:58.160 --> 0:07:59.320 think at the end of the day, the song is 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:01.800 kind of at it's or about putting love before everything else. 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.640 And if there was ever a time in history that's uh, 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.520 it felt relevant to put love before everything else, This 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.679 is certainly one of them. You can say that again. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:14.560 And in your case, you did come over your quarantining 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:17.240 together with with Julia right now, but say you are 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.360 you are together. I did come over. I'm at her. 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.160 I'm at in her guest room as we speak. Was 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:25.000 there a moment when you thought that your your relationship 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:34.000 might be more than professional? Yes? Was our specific moment? Uh? Yeah, 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:38.120 I think I think I knew within thirty seconds. Wow. 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.360 She text her manager of the day the day of 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.000 our session saying she thought she was in love. Wow. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.839 So lightning struck both of you. I saw the the 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:49.240 music video for the the demo version of the song 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:51.040 that you put out and for people who haven't seen it, 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:55.479 it is so great. It is JP and Julia recounting 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.760 their relationship via text on both sides of the screen. 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.839 It's it's really great. I ighly recommend watching it. Wow. 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.400 So it was it was immediate for you too. Yeah. 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.520 We we went on our first date the next day. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.160 We wrote the song on a Saturday. We went on 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.280 a Sunday. We were officially a couple eight days later. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.240 What was the date? What was it? What did you do? 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.480 We went to the park and then we went to 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.320 a Peruvian restaurant and then we was on a movie. 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:19.520 That's a very good first day. The park was the 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.320 main part. We were at the park for like three hours. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.960 That was like it was supposed to be a date date, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.079 so it was kind of like three dates in one 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.600 and now you're together. You're sharing a home too. Incredible songwriters, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.080 do you feel really productive in lockdown or is it 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.520 hard to get creative right now? How you feeling? I mean, 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:37.640 I got lucky. I'm locked in with the best songwriter 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.640 the world. So you know, I hear my friends complaining 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:45.040 about zoom sessions, which Honestly, I have also complained about them. 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:46.920 But if the only person I get to write with 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.000 in person is is Julia, then I leved out uh 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:51.840 and we've been Honestly, the first month and a half 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:53.560 we weren't too productive, and then we caught of wave. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.000 I thought, I think over the last like four weeks, 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.000 we've written a lot, a lot of songs for her, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.679 a lot of songs for me, songs for others. We 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.280 just kind of caught a wave. What is she taught you? 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.520 I mean, obviously you're an incredibly compress songwriter yourself, but 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.199 what is she taught you about songwriting? Good question? So 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.960 I think usually my instincts melodically are to just follow 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:19.600 the follow the cadence of a lyric, like it's more, 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.960 it's more in my wheel house to be like if 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.959 the world does any you come over right, like nothing too, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:29.960 there's nothing too distracting from the lyric itself going on melodically, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.640 I'll do a lot of like I'll stumble into interesting 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.640 rhythms melodically because I'll follow the like rhythm of the words. 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.920 It isn't too often will consciously go like, how can 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.280 I make that melody around that line? Jump around more? 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.800 How can it be more exciting? And Julia is able 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:49.679 to both be sincere and the way she presents lyrics, 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.320 but also really stretch what the melodic possibilities are. And 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.480 I think from writing with her, like I've really started 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.480 to expand the way I think about that. And I 0:10:57.520 --> 0:10:59.480 want to ask you that about that because so many 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:01.920 songwriter as will say, you know, my songs are really 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.120 journal entries, but in your case that's literally the case, 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:07.439 right as so many of your lyrics begin as as 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.640 diary entries. For you, you know, I was so I'm 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:13.840 called Barcelona the whole first, versus a journal You know, 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:15.640 I thought you would have called yesterday. I said, I 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.280 didn't want you to, but I still thought you would. 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:18.720 I don't know what I expected you to say. But 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:20.520 I turned twenty five and pidding my mind, you'd be 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.280 a part of that in some way like that. That 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:25.640 is the journal entry into what I was saying before, 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:28.760 like that melody on that versus I thought you would 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.720 have called with the us today. I said I didn't 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.920 want you to, but I still thought you would. I 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.319 don't know what I expected you to say, which is 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.040 very much the same cadence as I would have just 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:42.839 spoken it exactly ago, um, whereas Julia will like she'll 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:45.400 she'll stretch the possibilities of what that cadence can be, 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.120 what that melody could be. And that's been fun for 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.360 me to explore with her aim now like on my 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.560 own in my writing a little bit more, um, I 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.400 guess in Barcelona, I do a little because the course 0:11:54.520 --> 0:12:00.480 jumps you know well or so these people, which is 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:01.920 funny that that would have been the song that she 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.920 responded to the first time, because it's a little bit 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.679 more like and move out of that. But it's like 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.120 a little bit more the approach she would take to 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.720 a course and the one that I take. Traditionally, Now, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:13.600 when you sit down the start of song, do you 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.319 hear a fragment of a piece of music in your 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.880 mind and then you go to your diary and look 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.760 for a passage that you feel would fit with that 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:24.400 piece of music, Or do you take words in your 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.280 diary that really mean a lot to you and try 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:29.199 to write music to fit that. Usually it's like it's 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.160 a line or two that will be like that feels 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.920 like a song. Yeah, I would say more often than not, 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.080 it's the beginning. I'll have like the first line of 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:38.880 a song, like I have a song called Explain You 0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:41.120 or I go. My therapist called you a learning experience 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.040 one eighty an hour. That's all you mentions. Missing you 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:47.280 is getting expensive. And that was the beginning of that song. 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.360 It took me forever to write the second verse of 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:52.920 that song because I like the first verse so much. 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:54.640 I didn't I didn't know what I wanted the second 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.800 verse to be. And usually I try, like I try 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.400 not to have favorite parts of my songs because I 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:02.560 find if I have a favorite party usually means the 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:07.160 other parts aren't as good. Um, So it's like the 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.680 challenge of like, how does and that doesn't mean every 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.840 part needs to be the moment you know it all 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.559 kind of works together in itself. But you can always 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:16.320 tell us a writer when you're like, there's the part 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.440 of your song that you're always really excited for to 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.640 hear yourself, are excited to get to when you're playing 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.760 it for someone else, and you want your whole song 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:24.560 to feel like that? Is it hard for you to 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.680 ever choose the moments of yourself that you kind of 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:28.719 want to keep back and keep private versus the ones 0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:33.720 you want to put in your song for fans. No, uh, 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:37.439 the simple answer, no, I don't know. I think like 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.439 every job comes with its occupational hazards. And if if 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:44.040 the occupational hazard of being an artist and getting to 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.120 sing my songs around the world for people that I'm 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.920 so excited to meet, the countries that I have have always 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.080 wanted to go to is uh, is sharing a little 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.720 bit more than it's comfortable sometimes that I'm okay with that. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.520 I also think there's something very empowering about taking the 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:59.200 most of all the rule part to your life and 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.840 making them the thing that you get applauded for, making 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:04.640 them the thing that people sing along too. It's uh. 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.760 It's a reminder for me that it's it's in my 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.880 humanity that my my power exists. And I hope that 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.360 it can also exist as a reminder for people listening 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.480 to it that sometimes the parts of your life that 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:17.120 you find shame, or the parts of your life and 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.600 you're the most human, that's the part where we find 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.080 each other. That's a beautiful way to put it. I 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:27.560 wonder as a writer, do you ever find it difficult 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.600 to be present in a moment, either a good moment 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:31.360 or a bad moment, because there's a little part of 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:32.840 you in the back of your mind that's writing this 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.120 down and thinking, oh my god, this is gonna be 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:36.880 a great song. This is gonna be a great lyric. 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.560 That's definitely a thing, but I try not to do it. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.600 I've yelled at Julia for for in the middle of 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.160 a very sincere conversation, like you know, I'll say something 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.760 like heartfelt and candid, and She'll be like, maybe you 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.200 should put that in a song. Would go away? Talk 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:03.520 to me? Not right now? A session? Yeah, the hazards 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:08.320 of two songwriters dating. Yes, Now, what is it a 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:10.800 day like for you on a songwriting session? Like, how 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:12.560 do you start? What's your first of all, what's your setup? 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.440 Where do you like to work? Anywhere with a piano? 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.080 A real piano is a really important part of the 0:15:18.080 --> 0:15:20.160 songwriting session for me, and you'd be surprised how many 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:23.120 studios don't have real pianos in them. I like bouncing 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.640 back and forth instrument instrument like writing, but sitting at 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.680 the piano writing, but sitting you know, with the guitar 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.400 writing a bit, listening to a track, because sometimes there's 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.040 like there's different ideas that common different setups, you know, 0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.280 if the World was Ending was written just at the piano, 0:15:37.480 --> 0:15:40.840 but Explain You was written on guitar, on piano, on 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.520 listening to track, on going for walks, on being in 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:48.840 the shower. You know some sometimes like that environmental shift 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.080 is really useful. So I like being in studios with 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.080 there's lots of options. I was gonna say, what do 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:54.880 you do when you're totally stuck on a song? What? 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.640 How do you completely just flush your mind watching a 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:02.240 SMR video, go for a while. Walks are super helpful. Yeah, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:05.240 And I try and like stay off my phone. I 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:09.040 allow myself to be bored because boredom is a really 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:13.000 productive space. And if you're like, well funk, I didn't 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:15.400 get the song, Like I'm gonna scroll through Instagram or 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:19.360 I'm gonna watch a YouTube video, you're you're just you're 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.520 occupying your mind in a way that doesn't let it 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:24.160 marinate on the idea where it's like if you just 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.960 like have a conversation or go for a walk, or 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.640 just like sit with your thoughts or like have a shower, 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:34.080 like that empty space is super productive. That ship scientific 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:36.720 to this book called the End of Absence, which talks 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:42.160 about like the impact on creativity from eliminating boredom and 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:46.600 how boredom is the most fruitful space for a creative Wow, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.160 I gotta check that out. And being at home all 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.440 the time, it's that's gotta be really hard to be 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.560 bored because it's filled with distractions. Like what are some 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.320 of your biggest distractions from from being at home? Biggest distractions? 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.680 I mean, I really love Jeopardy, A lot of Jeopardy, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:07.520 a lot of banana grams, anything dorky, I'm usually about it. Um, 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.879 those are the main ones. Board games and game shows. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.160 I'm big Jeopardy fan myself, big any kind of like 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:19.320 trivia stuff I am absolutely all about. I honestly think 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.080 that if I could make it onto celebrity Jefeopardy, that 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:25.480 would be my that would be my my like point 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:27.480 of success. That would be the that would be the 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.680 max for me. Yes, I'm writing that down. We're gonna, 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.960 We're gonna make that happen. What is making music taught 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:39.600 you about yourself? Mostly everything, Um, at least my emotional self. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.880 I'm not sure how I would figure out anything if 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:44.160 I didn't have songs. It's kind of the first place 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.200 I met myself as like a fifteen year old was 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.280 sitting at the piano trying to figure out my feelings 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.320 and songs. But I mean, I think for everyone there 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.240 has to be that space where you listen to yourself 0:17:54.480 --> 0:18:00.000 as a practice. You know, for me, songwriting is very meditative. Um, 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:02.800 I'm really grateful to work in a career where listening 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:07.880 to myself is required for my success. But I think 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.720 regardless of that, we figure out who we are listening 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.000 to ourselves and and figuring and listening to others and 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.359 recognizing what it means to be yourself differently in different 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.199 situations and with different people. And there's got to be 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.480 that point of reflection where like all of that kind 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:25.639 of pieces itself together. And for me that's always been 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.120 song writing. I'm sure people have said this way better 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:29.840 and I'm about too, but a song is gonna be 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.480 a hell of a mirror to literally hear yourself singing 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.479 back to whatever those thoughts are. And you know, they 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.640 always say that every character and a dream is you, 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.560 every line and a song is is you, And there's 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.600 probably a lot to unravel from that. I never thought 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.640 of that. I mean, that's that's the challenge with making 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.359 sure it's always sincere because if I'm not being honest 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:50.800 in these songs, you ask if it's hard to be candid, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:52.720 if it's if it's hard to share part to yourself 0:18:52.720 --> 0:18:54.919 with a song. To me, like, in the long term, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.800 being dishonest is more of a risk because it is 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.120 a mirror. It is where I'm captured pieces of myself. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.520 So I'm lying in those songs. Then five years later, 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.240 I look back on these parts of myself that we're 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.560 dishonest and like that sounds like what fun with my 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:10.359 sense of self? Absolutely? What is next for you? Like, 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.160 where do you want to take your music from? From 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.640 this point? I'm excited to explore different kinds of feelings. Um. 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.760 I think it's easy as a songwriter to get caught 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.160 up in the uh, the really alluring mystique of sadness, 0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:26.680 and I do think it's an important challenge for every 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.040 songwriter to figure out who you are and more than 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.960 one feeling. So you know, if the World was Ending 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:37.280 is a longing, nostalgic, loving song. Um, And it's It's 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:40.760 one of the reasons I'm proud of the selection on 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.600 the EP is like there are different versions of what 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:45.800 it feels like to be me on that EP, so 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:48.840 I would say, what's what's next is I'm working towards 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:50.240 an album will come at the end of this year, 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.240 and I'm gonna try and fill that album with songs 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.159 that represent as many versions of what it feels like 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.000 to be me is possible. What it feels like to 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:04.679 be me, be a silly, a silly loving dork on 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.800 a Saturday afternoon, you know, going for a drive with 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.119