1 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: I'm Anniris and I'm Lauren vogel Baum, and today we 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 2: have an episode for you about Tarragon, Yes. 4 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: Which is an episode I fondly referred to as etymology Headache. 5 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren? 6 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 2: There are a whole list of herbs and spices that 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 2: I've got in our ideas sheet and this was one 8 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: of them, and it's kind of it's kind of a nice, 9 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 2: bright summary sort of herb. 10 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: So yeah, Yeah, I have to say in the initial 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: search results when I saw this, what I didn't know 12 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: at the time would be Etymology Headache. It does have 13 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: a lot of very fun names. I was very intrigued. 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and dragon shows up in a lot of the names, 15 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 2: so that's always fun. 16 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a pretty good hook. I mean, I know, 17 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 1: I know I've had tarragon before, but I can't like 18 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: recall it very specifically. But in one of the articles 19 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: that I use in researching this, they were talking about 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: how French cuisine, or at least modern French cuisine in 21 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: New York specifically, was moving away from Tarragon, which had 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: been so closely associated with it for so long, and 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 1: they were listing all these restaurants that, you know, don't 24 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: use tarragon anymore. No, but they were like, but there 25 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: is one holdout the Cuckoo. I've been there, and I 26 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: was just there in December, and I got to meet 27 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: up with the editor of the stuff when I never 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: told you book. Gave a van wherever you'd get your 29 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: books because we never met person to person, and she 30 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 1: suggested this restaurant and I happen to get the one 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: dish that had tarragon in it, the sweetbreads with tarragon. 32 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, it was so good. Oh that 33 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,079 Speaker 1: sounds lovely. Yeah, but it made me very happy that 34 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: I saw that the restaurant name. I had to look 35 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: at the menu immediately. I yes, that is what I got. 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: Oh delightful. Yeah. I actually don't like tarragon as much 37 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: as I think I'm going to like. Every time I 38 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: get some, I'm like, ah, it's like I don't dislike it. 39 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: I'm always just kind of like, oh, right, it's sort 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,839 Speaker 2: of annest flavored. I feel like I always think I'm 41 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: going to like it more because part of my brain 42 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 2: still thinks it's fancy. 43 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: Yes, due to. 44 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: It's like heavy inclusion in things like the Silver Palette cookbook, 45 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: which we're going to talk about later. So here we are. 46 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, we're speaking of for past episodes. You can 47 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,799 Speaker 1: see our episode on hawk cuisine. Mm, that was a 48 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: whole other side quest that I could not go down. 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: I did not have the time. No this episode. No 50 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: other herbs that we've done, licorice, peppercorns. 51 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's there's some overlap in there, maybe absinthe. Yeah, yes, so. 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: That is quite the list of topics. Best to our question. Tarragon, 53 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: what is it? 54 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: Well, Tarragon is an herb with tender, narrow green leaves 55 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: that tastes of annis or or like licorice or fennel, 56 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: maybe kind of bittersweet, a little herbal medicinal, kind of 57 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: tangy and peppery. It's used fresh or dried, and all 58 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: kinds of savory dishes like roasts or stews, particularly with chicken, 59 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: our fish, or in like egg or vegetable dishes, maybe 60 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 2: chopped fine, in fresh salads or in various sauces and dressings. 61 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 2: It's often used alongside other herbs for like like like 62 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: multi dimensional herbal properties. It can also be used in 63 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: sweet dishes and drinks to add a little bit of spice, 64 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: perhaps especially alongside fruity flavors. It's sort of cool and 65 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: pike in both at the same time. It's the herbal 66 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: equivalent of like stepping from a warm sunny day into 67 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: a cool room, like like having that residual heat on 68 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 2: your skin and getting that that that cool woosh mmmm. 69 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a lovely feeling, especially right now it's 70 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: so so hot outside. 71 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 2: So I moved away from Florida anyway. Botanical name Artemisia 72 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: dragon coolest Dracunculus. Sure, I don't know. 73 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: Uh. 74 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: Tarragon is a sort of shrubby scre ruby herbaceous plant 75 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: in the sunflower family astorossier. It's related to stuff like 76 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: mugwart and wormwood. It grows lots of soft, like non 77 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: woody stems from these underground rhizomes. The plant's true roots 78 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: grow into the ground off of those rhizomes. Stems go up, 79 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: roots go down. Yeah. The stems can reach about three 80 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: feet or a meter in height. The leaves are narrow 81 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: and sort of blade like, maybe an inch or two long, 82 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 2: like three to six centimeters, and they're this like soft 83 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 2: to glossy bluish green in color. It does grow wild, 84 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: but the wild varieties don't often have a good flavor. 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: A couple of different cultivars developed for their flavor are 86 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: the ones that you're going to encounter for culinary use. 87 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: Those two main varieties are French and Russian terragon. French 88 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: is more anisey, a little sweeter, and more finicky to 89 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 2: grow like. It will not tolerate frost. Russian is more 90 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: mild and bitter, but more hardy. Both are d route resistant, 91 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: which is cool. What's known as Mexican tarragon is from 92 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 2: a different genus altogether, but apparently tastes really similar to 93 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: French tarragon, but not really what we're talking about today. 94 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: In French and Russian tarragon and wild tarragon, the tops 95 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 2: of the stems will grow these clusters of small white 96 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: to yellow to green flowers that may develop seeds, but 97 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: not all cultivars do, and in any case, the plant 98 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: does propagate more readily from those rhizomes, which will spread 99 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: horizontally under the surface of the ground. The flowers are edible, too, 100 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: but we're mostly interested in the leaves. You can harvest 101 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: whole stems or just strip the leaves. In the supermarket, 102 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: you'll usually find packs of whole stems. You can toss 103 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 2: those whole into soups or stews to be taken out 104 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 2: at the end of cooking, or you can strip the 105 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 2: leaves and use those whole or chopped. Cooking tarragon for 106 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 2: too long can turn it bitter, so you might want 107 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: to add it towards the end of cooking, or use 108 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: it in dishes that don't have a long cooking time 109 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 2: to begin with, like eggs or fish or cream sauces. 110 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: And it does lose flavor when it's dried, so it's 111 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 2: best to use fresh or frozen when you can. And yeah, 112 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 2: tarragon is either native or successfully introduced to basically the 113 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: entire Northern hemisphere, so it plays roles in a lot 114 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: of different cuisines. France, where it is not native, really 115 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 2: picked it up during Elt cuisine, and so it is 116 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: a key ingredient in modern classics like Breneise sauce, which 117 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 2: is butter and eggyulk with vinegar, shallatte and tarragon, and 118 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 2: the chopped herb blend Fiends herb, which is parsley, chives, 119 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: sherville and tarragon. Tarragon is sometimes called referred to in 120 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: French as the King of Herbs. It's also really popular 121 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: as an ingredient in flavored vinegars and mustards and cheeses. 122 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: And I did see a lot of suggestions for using 123 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 2: tarragon in pasta and potato salads and to just generally 124 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 2: brighten up kind of savory ingredients like mushrooms or be 125 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: sor asparagus. Yeah, it is furthermore processed into oil powder 126 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 2: and paste for use in the processed food and beverage industry. 127 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 2: There's a popular, popular question mark soft drink around like 128 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: Central Asia and former Soviet Union areas called Tarkuna or tarkun, 129 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: which is flavored with it's soda flavored with tarragon, and 130 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 2: it's colored like bright green, bright green soda tarragon flavored. 131 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: And those words that I probably just mispronounced, I did 132 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 2: look them up but couldn't find anything really reliable. Those 133 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: are the Georgian and Russian words for tarragon, respectively. So 134 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 2: also one of several etymological notes I'm going to be 135 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 2: making here today. The flavor and or fragrance compound estragoal 136 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 2: was named for the French word for tarragon, So that 137 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: shows up in perfumes and stuff a lot and other 138 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 2: personal care products. 139 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: Oh, etymology, you really came for us in this one. 140 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, this one was one of those cases of 141 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: those like like ancient peoples were not thinking about modern 142 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: podcasters at all. 143 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: How could they? But I have to say I did 144 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: appreciate how I've found so many instances of people arguing 145 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: about it in like medieval times, and I. 146 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 2: Was like, yes, yes, thank you. 147 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: Well what about the nutrition. 148 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 2: You're not really consuming enough to make a difference. But 149 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: tarragon does contain a lot of micronutrients that can help 150 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: your body do stuff, and it has been used in 151 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: various traditional medicines for a long time and is indeed 152 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: under investigation for various properties like antibacterial and anti fungal 153 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 2: effects in food preservation and for extracts in various medicines. 154 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 2: But you know saber motto, before you eat medicinal quantities 155 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: of anything should check with a doctor or other medical 156 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 2: professional who is not us, because bodies are complicated. Nutrition 157 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:05,599 Speaker 2: is complicated. 158 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: There you go, our research is needed. Well, we don't 159 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: really have numbers for you, but we have a fun 160 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: on back to fun quote. 161 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: I was looking up I was looking up like like 162 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: global production numbers for tarragon and like global market value, 163 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: and the numbers that I saw were so wildly different 164 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: in every source that I was like, this is not 165 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: this is not an actual number. I'm not going to 166 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 2: try to report this. But cultural note, James Beard is 167 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: quoted as having said, I believe that if I ever 168 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 2: had to practice cannibalism, I might manage if there were 169 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: enough tarragon around. 170 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 1: It's such a fun quote because I feel like it 171 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: has a couple of interpretations. One is that you like 172 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: tarragon enough. One is that flag the flavor of tarragon 173 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: is enough to distract you mm hmmm. And the other 174 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: is like I can eat the tarra god. So I 175 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: guess how turned to my fellow human. 176 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: I think it's some of those first too. But but 177 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 2: I like that, Yeah, I like that you're thinking about it. 178 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: I think it's that he appreciated it so much. 179 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, if this were a Fay deal, 180 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 2: that would be real shaky ground. 181 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, yeah, indeed, speaking of shaky ground, we got 182 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,760 Speaker 1: to get into some of this etymology mess. 183 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, we we do, we do, and we are we 184 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: we are. But first We are going to take a 185 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 2: quick break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. 186 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, historians suspect 187 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: that tarragon, specifically wild Russian tarragon, originated in Central and 188 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Western Asia. French tarragon propagated with roots or cuttings, came 189 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: later a few centuries ago. It doesn't appear in any 190 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,559 Speaker 1: European botanical literature until the fifteen hundred. So the general 191 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: consensus is that it's a newer herb and the scheme 192 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 1: of things, at least to Europe. That being said, new 193 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: historical discoveries happen all the time, and it could be 194 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: one of those things where historical descriptions and naming conventions 195 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: mix it up with something else. There are definitely multiple 196 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: instances in medieval text where authors complain about mistranslations leading 197 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: to mix ups with other herbs when it comes to tarragon. 198 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about a few of them. It's 199 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: almost comical how many names it has gone by. 200 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, yep, yep. But okay, it does seem that 201 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 2: tarragon started out in like Mongolia and Siberia and slowly 202 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 2: spread out from there through seed dispersal and human movement, 203 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 2: and somewhere along the line people selected for what we 204 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 2: now call the French variety, which yes, is a sterile variety. 205 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,239 Speaker 2: Does not propagate from seeds. It has to be propagated 206 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,559 Speaker 2: from rhizome cuttings. But that happened a long time before 207 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 2: it hit France. Probably, Tarragon was written up in an 208 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: Arab botanical text in the twelve hundreds as a seasoning 209 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: for vegetables and also a sleep aid. 210 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and in some Middle Eastern countries, tarragon has a 211 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: centuries long culinary history, winding up in several dishes that 212 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: are still around today. It was also used. 213 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 2: In traditional medicines in Central Asia. 214 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, Tiragon likely arrived in Europe towards the end of 215 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages via Arab traders, or perhaps through the 216 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: Mongol invasion of Europe in the twelve hundreds. 217 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: Or possibly even earlier around the eight hundreds with the 218 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 2: Arab movement into parts of what's now Italy, or all 219 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: three of these things. 220 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: We don't know. No one seems to know, no one 221 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: is sure, no one is sure, all right, So in 222 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: the early days it was used medicinally in a wide 223 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: range of ways. In Asia, the Middle East, and Europe, 224 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: perhaps specifically when it came to gastro intestinal distress, but 225 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: really in a huge range of ways. And speaking of 226 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: medicinal applications, the first known European mention of tarragon is 227 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: from a fifteen thirty six book about medicinal plants by 228 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: Jean Rouelle. Ruelle was a French physician, botanist and scholar, 229 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: and the book was published first in Paris. The discussion 230 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: of Tarragon is brief. The author discusses the roots and 231 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: translations and mistranslations of the name of the Arab, how 232 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: it grows, how it's used, and how it tastes. However, 233 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: some sources claim that Tarragon was mentioned farlier, even by 234 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: our old pal Plenty and Dioscurides. On top of that, 235 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: Ruel was known for translating the work of Dioskerites, which 236 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: did not mention Tarragon. But then Ruell wrote an original 237 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: work based on this translation of Diaskerites and added his 238 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: own bit about Tarragon. So I think some people attribute 239 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: the mention of Tarragon to Diascrites, Okay, at least in 240 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: my mind, that's part of the issue. And I same 241 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: with Plenty. I think the same thing happened, But there 242 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: is a lot of historical confusion around the name of 243 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: tarragon what it actually referred to when people were using it. 244 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: Most sources I read posit that Plenty, Diascurrites and the 245 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 1: like were referring to a different species arab Dragcunculus, which 246 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: is not I looked it up in is not the 247 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: same thing, and is also that scientific name is not 248 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: even used anymore from what I can tell. 249 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and aram is either way a totally different genus. 250 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 2: It's separate plant, separate plants, but also called dracunculus. 251 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And in fact, Plenty is often credited with 252 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: giving terragon or not Terragon, as the case might be, 253 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: its name and the first century CE because carrying it 254 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: on your person, according to him, provided protection from snake bites. 255 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: Okay, so yes, the etymology here is whibbley wobbly, because 256 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: we're not sure exactly what plant different people were referring to. 257 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 2: But it has been suggested that the name terragon roots 258 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: from this Greek word for dragon dragon, and that the 259 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: plant was called that because the rhizomes have a kind 260 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: of like knobby snakelike sort of appearance. Or maybe that 261 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 2: the leaves look like serpents tongues. I've read both, so 262 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 2: like right, like you get dracon and that goes to 263 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: an arab tarkon and then terragon. 264 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: Okay. 265 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 2: Some have suggested that this association with serpents is why 266 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 2: the plant was thought to have these anti snake medicinal 267 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 2: properties of one kind or another. While we're here, the 268 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: genus name Artemisia comes from the association of the goddess 269 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 2: Artemis with some dang plant in like the mugwort, wormwood, 270 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 2: tarragon family or not or a different plant. 271 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: Yes. 272 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 2: Again, there's like a bunch of historical confusion here. 273 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 1: Yes, but all very interesting and great name landed on 274 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: a great name. 275 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's that's like metal. That's like 276 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 2: really cool, very cool. 277 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: Okay. So after this we kind of get a little 278 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: bit of a cascade of other medicinal plant books sort 279 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: of arguing about this. 280 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, like they didn't have Blue Sky, so they had 281 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 2: to do it through publication. 282 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: And that they did so. A fifteen seventy eight text 283 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,199 Speaker 1: first published in fifteen fifty four but later updated, written 284 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: by Rimbert du Dunn's, a Belgian botanist and physician tauted 285 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: the benefits of tarragon, especially when it came to stomach 286 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 1: ailments and feminist bites. This work was significant when it 287 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: comes to tarragon because it was the first book in 288 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: this medico botanical space to give tarragon an entire entry 289 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: under the name dragon, complete with illustration. It was listed 290 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: amongst other edible plants that have a sort of bright, 291 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: spicy flavor with when fresh, so like a rocket or rugula, 292 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,159 Speaker 1: things like that. Do Dunes recommended it for salads. He 293 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: also mentions that it wasn't common outside of France, apart 294 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: from a few cities in Belgium where the French had 295 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: introduced Then in fifteen fifty eight, Italian physician Pietro Andreya 296 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: Mattioli described tarragon as having an extremely acrid taste. He 297 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: wrote briefly about the belief some held that tarragon didn't 298 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: grow naturally but instead required farmers to place linen seeds 299 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: and hollowed out onions or something like an onion and 300 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: bury them. And he ran his own experiment and it 301 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: didn't work. Dismissed the whole thing. He was like, this 302 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: is just not true. 303 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: That's accurate. It's not true that that's what you have 304 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: to do to grow terragon. But again, probably the type 305 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 2: of tarragon that they were growing even at this point 306 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 2: was French tarragon, which is propagated through the rhizome. So yes, yes, 307 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: he was onto something with the seeds not being plantable, yeah, 308 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: step by step, yeah yeah. 309 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: Which speaking of then, John Gerard published in fifteen ninety 310 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: seven his work The Herbal Out of London, including a 311 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 1: translation of Doe Dune's writings about tarragon along with his 312 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: own notes around medicinal properties and the name in other languages. 313 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: He also describes how in Greek myth, the fisherman Glaucus 314 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: became immortal after eating tarragon. However, it seems he mistranslated 315 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: a word for tarragon, so there's like, there's a plant 316 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: you eat and it gives you this immortality, and he 317 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: thought it was tarragon, but I think the word he 318 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: mistranslated was actually a descriptor for the plant, not actually 319 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: the plant. 320 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 321 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: So anyway, that kind of got dismissed, and I believe 322 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: Doe Dunes came out with another edition of his book 323 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: and was like, I don't know where your sources are 324 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: but that's not correct. It really was a whole back 325 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: and forth. There were a couple more after this, but 326 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: then it kind of settled down for a minute. English 327 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: gardens were growing at Tarragon by the sixteenth century. Europeans 328 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: brought tarragon over with them to the America's beginning in 329 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds, but it seemed to remain pretty niche 330 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: at first, at least in the US. 331 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 2: But wild tarragon did spread in North America, or was 332 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: possibly already here. A few ethnobotanies list tarragon as a 333 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,640 Speaker 2: traditional medicine for peoples like the Chippewa and the Chequetnic. 334 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: So yes, ooh and then okay. By the eighteenth and 335 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, Europe had generally embraced tarragon as a spice, 336 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: but none more so than France. They added it to 337 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: a whole variety of things, including biernet sauce, a devoration 338 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: of the French mother sauce holland Dais, which, by the way, 339 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: we're just gonna have to do a whole episode on 340 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: these sauces. 341 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 2: On the sauce as we are. Yeah, I've been putting 342 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 2: that off because of all of the heck in French 343 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: that I am going to mispronounce. 344 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: That is fair. That is fair. U. Well, the first 345 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: recipe for beernais appeared in eighteen thirty six, or that's 346 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: the general consensus. Future episode. Yeah, august Escoffier's landmark nineteen 347 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: oh three work Leaguide Colinaire mentioned to Tarragon over sixty times. 348 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 2: All right. 349 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: He was also the first to define France's fiene herbs 350 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh three, which is a seasoning of equal 351 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: parts Parsley, Chives, Sherville and Tarragon. So yeah, it was 352 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: a big part of that, like new classic French cuisine, 353 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: Hawk cuisine. 354 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, huge, it was everywhere in there. 355 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but that's future as will deal with that 356 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: because I tried to fit it all into this episode 357 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: and I was like, no, we can do all episode 358 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: just on Tarra God and Friends. 359 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, during that specific time period. Yes. Meanwhile, that Tarragon 360 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 2: soda pop that I mentioned was invented in eighteen eighty 361 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 2: seven by this Georgian pharmacist by the name of U. 362 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: I'm so sorry if I mess this up a metrofun Leginze, 363 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 2: I think I'm not sure. I'm so sorry. Yeah, But 364 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: he was working with a bunch of different herbs and 365 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: fruits and spices to make syrups for soft drinks. The 366 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: tarragon one did get popular throughout the USSR in the 367 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 2: nineteen eighties when, which is when it saw mass production 368 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 2: and is still available and is always just absolutely emerald. 369 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: Green listeners right in. Yeah, yeah, okay, stepfing back a bit. 370 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 1: After returning to the US from Europe, famous Francophile Thomas Jefferson, 371 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: that guy ran into trouble getting his hands on tarragon, 372 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: which had been readily available while he was in France, 373 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: and Jefferson had been particularly taken with tarragon mustard, so 374 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: he really wanted to make this. He went on this 375 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 1: whole quest to get seeds to grow his own tarragon, 376 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: but he ran into dead ends at every turn. And yeah, 377 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: part of the problem was that tarragon grown for culinary 378 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: purposes was the French variety propagated using root division or cutting. 379 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, he just wasn't having it. Wasn't going to work. Yeah, 380 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: wasn't going to work. So he sent this message, this 381 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:43,440 Speaker 1: really lamenting message about his tarragon loves to horticulturists Bernard 382 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: McMahon in eighteen o six and McMahon sent him some 383 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 1: roots to grow his own. I think a month later 384 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: was like here You're. 385 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: Like, here you go, bud. 386 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, just good luck. But still it was not smooth sailing. 387 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: Over several years in the early eighteen hundreds, Jefferson struggled 388 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,679 Speaker 1: to cultivate tarragon at Monticello, where he lived. Based on 389 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: the sources I read, he never really succeeded, but he 390 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: did turn more people onto tarragon in the United States. 391 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 2: It's honestly, probably too wet around Monticello. 392 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. 393 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: Wants it to be a little bit drier. But or 394 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it was karma for him being 395 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: a terrible heck in person. 396 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: There could be any number of things. Yeah, he also 397 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: moved it a lot. I think he was I couldn't tell, 398 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: but it sounded like he was pretty impatient. He really 399 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: wanted this mustard, which I'm sure wasn't helping with the crow. Yeah. Yes, 400 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: But in either gate, whatever happens. Starting in the eighteen hundreds, 401 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: recipes for things like tarragon vinegar started appearing in American cookbooks, 402 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: and then in the mid nineteen hundreds, Julia Child helped 403 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: popularize tarragon and French dishes and spice mixes that called 404 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: for it for mainstream American audiences. And then something I 405 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: never heard of, but it sounds like you had Lauren. 406 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: The team behind the Silver Palette carry out shop in 407 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: New York City as Shila Lukens and Julie Russo, included 408 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: several recipes that called for tarragon, and their two cookbooks, 409 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: The Silver Palette and The New Basics. These books came 410 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: out in the nineteen eighties and they were incredibly popular. 411 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: They wove together American in international cuisines, and they created 412 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: some new takes on old classics. When it came to tarragon, 413 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: a lot of Americans did have this sort of long 414 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: associated thing where they always thought of it as this 415 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 1: is for francy French dishes, that's where it belongs. I 416 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,160 Speaker 1: can't make those, But these cookbooks featured recipes in other 417 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 1: ways using it in other ways, like in tarragon pea 418 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: soup and teargn chicken salad, and so the addition of 419 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: tarragon was accessible, but it made many feel like the 420 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: resulting dish was fancier, which I think is what you 421 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: were talking about. The top one. 422 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, well, we'll definitely have to do a 423 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 2: whole episode about the whole silver palette thing. These were 424 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: two cookbooks that I grew up with my parents using 425 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: extensively at home. And also because because my dad was 426 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 2: a professional cook or chef for you know, whatever, whatever 427 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: you want to call someone who smokes too many cigarettes 428 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 2: outside of kitchens, he took a lot of inspiration from 429 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 2: that kind of cooking. 430 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,639 Speaker 1: So, yeah, I would love to come back to it. 431 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 1: Because I was I was looking just out of curiosity 432 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: tarragon dishes available near me, and so many of them 433 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: were things that were in this cookbook. I was just 434 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: kind of cross matching, so it had quickly out of impacts. 435 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really emblematic of those books are really emblematic 436 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 2: of the kind of nineteen eighties wave of novelle cuisine 437 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:14,480 Speaker 2: that was talking about. Yeah, just like, get good ingredients, 438 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 2: don't mess them up, try to eat nice fresh things. 439 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: Interesting. Yeah, yes, another interesting thing. In two thousand and one, 440 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: the publication su Herb had a feature specifically highlighting tarragon 441 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: titled only Elegance. I tried so hard to track this 442 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:36,800 Speaker 1: down so I could read it, and I could only 443 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: find like a small shot oh, desperate to read it. 444 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: But a lot of the newer stuff I've read made 445 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: it sound like Tarragon is kind of old fashioned and stuffy. Now, 446 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: like the thing that I was talking about with the 447 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: restaurant I went to the Cuckoo where they're like, that's 448 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: the only restaurant that uses it. They were saying it 449 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: was at this high and now yeah you can't. 450 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess. I guess it probably especially for right 451 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 2: for like a certain caliber of restaurant that has gotten 452 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 2: burnt out on doing like classical cuisine type dishes. They're like, no, 453 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: no more terragone. Man, I'm sick of Tarragon. We did enough, 454 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 2: Terragon done. We're done there, Let's move on to literally 455 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 2: anything else. 456 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: But it's nice. It's nice. 457 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I think that, you know, like like 458 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 2: something like fennel, you know, it's just gonna come in 459 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 2: waves of popularity where like suddenly it's going to be 460 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: the it's spice for everything, the herb for everything, and 461 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: but then people are gonna be like, no, we're sick 462 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 2: of that. Now. 463 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: I agree. I agree because I feel like I've seen it, 464 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: like maybe even in cocktails and things. So I thought 465 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: it was fancy in that way, but maybe it's maybe 466 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: it's more niche right now, but it'll come back and 467 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: have another big moment. But yeah, listeners, let us know 468 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: if there are ways that you like to use it, 469 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: or dishes that you love that have tarragon in them. 470 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you. But I think 471 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: that's what we have to say about tarragn for now. 472 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 2: It is. We do have some listener mail for you already, though, 473 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 2: and we are going to get into that as soon 474 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 2: as we get back from one more quick break for 475 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors. 476 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Now 477 00:30:49,920 --> 00:31:03,479 Speaker 1: we're back with name stepping inside cool room after being outside. 478 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: Hmmmmmm okay. Janet sent an email with the subject line 479 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: speaking of desecrated coconut that reads, I was so excited 480 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: when I heard my last letter read aloud. You really 481 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: brought both the whimsy and horror of Lamington Pizza to life. 482 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: For the listeners, please find attached pictures of my bond 483 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 1: Me inspired Schmorgas tort extravaganza witcher cake, so named for 484 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: reasons that I promise made since during lockdown, much like 485 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: the tsunami of Witcher fanfic, also written in twenty twenty. 486 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: It is made only using ingredients mentioned are shown by 487 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 1: Joey Batty and his Chaos Grimlin masterpiece of a YouTube 488 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: video Joey's Great Witcher Bakeoff. Therefore, my bond me Schmorgas 489 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: Torte is made by spreading pet over gluten free non 490 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: or lebonese bread and layering with a salad of red 491 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: wine and sugar pickled carrots, avocado, cucumber, baby spinach, and 492 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: fresh basil, then dressed with lime juice, chili flakes, and 493 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: more red wine vinegar, then loaded with coconut and pepper 494 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: fried beef and omelet as proteins. The torte is then 495 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 1: liberally frosted with strained Greek yogurt and lime juice around 496 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: the sides, and deep fried lasagna sheets are stuck on 497 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: Decoratively to this frosting optional extra top with slices of 498 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: avocado arranged into a wolf's head symbol. It was truly delicious, 499 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: and I regret that I have yet to make it again. 500 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,239 Speaker 1: I hope you've enjoyed the second foray into foods with 501 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: threatening auras. If so, please mention a favorite food each 502 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 1: and I'll try to create a combined savory treat for you. 503 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: Oh oh wow, I'm a little nervous. Yeah, you might 504 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: have to ponder. 505 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a minute 506 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 2: to think about that one. But in the meanwhile, a 507 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: the wolf's head is truly gorgeous, like really a sculptural 508 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: work of avocado art. 509 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: It really is. 510 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: And and b uh, this sounds great. This sounds like 511 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 2: it shouldn't be great. But I totally believe you that 512 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 2: it was delicious. 513 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: I believe it too. I believe it too. I did 514 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: struggle reading through the description just now. There were a 515 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: couple of retakes, yeah, because it kept going. 516 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. When she when she got to 517 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,600 Speaker 2: the deep fried lasagna sheets, like we both just cracked up. 518 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: We were like, and then what, I love it. It's fantastic. 519 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: It just kept going and going and going. 520 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 2: Indeed, what chaos. I love it. 521 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: It does sound absolutely chaotic, and you know we love 522 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: nerd nerd based dishows. 523 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:10,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, experiments, oh yeah, and fan fix yeah yes, absolutely. 524 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 1: So yes, And if anybody's interested, Janet did send links 525 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: to videos of making this. So yeah, it sounds like 526 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: truly delicious chaos that is nerd themed and we're on board. 527 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: We're on board, so on board. But yeah, yeah, we'll 528 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 2: get back to you and we are going to choose wisely. 529 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: But who knows where where youre chaos will take us. 530 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 1: I guess I can't wait. 531 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 2: Oh okay uh. Jamie wrote, so excited that you did 532 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: an episode about taiyaki. Our family went to Japan in 533 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 2: March of this year. My husband loves taiyaki and was 534 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 2: so excited to eat it while we were there. Luckily, 535 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 2: there was a taiyaki shop across the street from one 536 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 2: of our hotel and we found snoopy shaped taiyaki at 537 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 2: the Nishiki market in Kyoto. He especially loves the red 538 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,840 Speaker 2: bean paste ones. Sometimes in the frozen section at Costco 539 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,359 Speaker 2: they will have little fish shaped taiyaki that you can 540 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 2: warm up in the air fryer, which is a nice 541 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 2: way to have them here in the States. We also 542 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: had ten yen bread, which is taiyaki adjacent. We bought 543 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 2: two of those, one cheese and one chocolate. Relating to 544 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: another recent episode, we were also very excited to see 545 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 2: Krispy Kreme in the train stations They had all sorts 546 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: of different neat flavors that you don't typically see here 547 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: in the States. I could go on and on about Japan, 548 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 2: but suffice it to say it was amazing and we 549 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,560 Speaker 2: are planning on going back again at some point paying 550 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 2: the pet tax. I have attached a picture of our 551 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 2: fourteen year old docs Rusty and are new to us 552 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,280 Speaker 2: nine year old beagle Red. We had to say goodbye 553 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 2: to our seventeen year old beagle Rowdy in February, and 554 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,600 Speaker 2: his brother Rusty was devastated, so we rescued Red to 555 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 2: be his emotional support dot and Red is fitting in 556 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 2: great and is helping fill the beagle sized hole in 557 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: our hearts. Oh my goodness, Okay, so it's so attached. Yes, 558 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 2: there are photos of the snoopy, the snoopy head, Taiyaki, 559 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:24,240 Speaker 2: the cheese filled pastry mentioned and then oh those Krispy 560 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 2: Kreme look gorgeous. Oh, and the doggoes are so cute. 561 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 2: Those are real good dogs. They're all very relaxed as beagles. Uh, 562 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:35,879 Speaker 2: and docsins tend to be. 563 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: Well. 564 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 2: I mean at a point like that, this is when 565 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: they have like borked all of their borks out and 566 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 2: they are recharging the bork. 567 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, it's so adorable. 568 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, what buddies. 569 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much. Preparing the checks, Oh, I 570 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: appreciate it, and sending pictures and this all sounds. I 571 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 1: love the wide array of taiyaki yeah, uh huh, and 572 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: all these different pastries people are writing in about, so 573 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: please keep that coming. 574 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, feel free to just inundate. It's with as 575 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 2: much details as you would like to give. You'd never 576 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 2: have to worry about going on and on like that 577 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: is what we are absolutely into. And so sorry for 578 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 2: your for your recent pet loss. It's so yes, it's 579 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 2: their Their time is so brief, but so so worthwhile. 580 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely well, Thank you to both of these listeners 581 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: to writing in. If you would like to try to us, 582 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: you can or emails hello at saberpod dot com. 583 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on 584 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,799 Speaker 2: Blue Sky and Instagram at saber pod. That's the name 585 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 2: of our show. Holy heck, we do hope to hear 586 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,400 Speaker 2: from you. Savor is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more 587 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio. You can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 588 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as 589 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,120 Speaker 2: always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. 590 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots 591 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:21,480 Speaker 2: more good things are coming your way.