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Speaker 1: Talking to Death is released every Friday and brought to

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Speaker 1: you absolutely free. But if you want ad free listening

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Speaker 1: and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to Tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot

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Speaker 1: com or on Apple Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Talking to Death is a production of tenderfoot TV and

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Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 3: Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to Talking to Death. Today is July fifth.

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Speaker 2: Yesterday was America's Independence Day. I don't know about you, guys,

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Speaker 2: but I spent the day on a boat, drinking copious

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Speaker 2: mounts of alcohol, as the founding fathers would have wanted.

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Speaker 2: But today is a new day, and today we have

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Speaker 2: a fun episode for you. You may have heard of

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Speaker 2: this man payin Lindsey, hosting creator of Talking to Death,

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Speaker 2: Up and Vanished, High, Strange Atlanta Monster, among many others.

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Speaker 2: Pain was recently featured on The Monica Pearson Show, which

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Speaker 2: plays on the Atlanta Journal Constitutions podcast. Monica Pearson reached

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Speaker 2: out to us recently in hope that we can play

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Speaker 2: the episode with Pain on Talking to Death. So we're

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Speaker 2: really excited to do that. It's so rare you get

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Speaker 2: to hear from Pain on this show. He's usually the

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Speaker 2: one interviewing so this will be a fun switch up

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Speaker 2: to where you can actually hear Monica interview Pain, get

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Speaker 2: to know a little bit more about Pain, maybe some

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Speaker 2: things you didn't know or had never heard before. He

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Speaker 2: talks about his journey in podcasting, Tenderfoot as a company,

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Speaker 2: his journey as a musician and TV, and all the

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Speaker 2: different things he's done through his life, all the things

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Speaker 2: he still wants to do. So without further ado, the

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Speaker 2: man you know and love Pain Lindsay.

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Speaker 4: True crime and mystery stories reign supreme in the podcast world,

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Speaker 4: and if you are a frequent listener, you know Pain Lindsey.

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Speaker 4: Lindsey is a director, documentary filmmaker, and podcast host, best

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Speaker 4: known for his award winning podcast Up and Vanished. This year,

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Speaker 4: he took audiences out of this world literally, do.

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Speaker 1: You feel like you're really truly alone? Or do you

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Speaker 1: ever look up at the sky and feel like there

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Speaker 1: has to be more out there?

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Speaker 4: Alongside his co producer Donald Albright is a UFO podcast

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Speaker 4: called High Strange delivered more chills than a murder mystery.

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Speaker 4: I'm Monica Pearson. This is the Monica Pearson Show. If

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Speaker 4: there is one thing you know about me, I love Atlanta.

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Speaker 4: Every week, I will introduce you to Atlanta's most groundbreaking

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Speaker 4: innovators and influencers, those inspired by the city to make

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Speaker 4: a mark in our world. If you are from Atlanta

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Speaker 4: or the South, chances are these folks need no introduction

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Speaker 4: at all. This is the Monica Pearson Show from the

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Speaker 4: Atlanta Journal Constitution.

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Speaker 3: Paine, you know how long it's been since I've seen you?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I know it's been years, but how many years?

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Speaker 5: Is the question?

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Speaker 3: Too many years?

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Speaker 5: Because four five?

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's been longer than that when you did Monster

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 5: So that would have been twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 4: Atlantima, which is crazy missing and murdered children.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe we've both changed.

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Speaker 4: I'm now gray, you're now blonde and.

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Speaker 3: Short hair too.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm getting old.

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Speaker 4: You know, I didn't realize that you were from Kennesau, Georgia.

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Speaker 3: You do not even have a Southern accent.

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Speaker 5: People say that though.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if you go hair on my uncle's for

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Speaker 1: five minutes, it comes out a little bit from me.

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Speaker 5: But I don't know why I got the non regional

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Speaker 5: thing going on.

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Speaker 1: I didn't consciously try to do it, but it'll come

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Speaker 1: out if I hear my dad say something and I'll say.

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Speaker 5: It back on out here I go.

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Speaker 3: Now, what was it like growing up in Kennesaw?

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Speaker 5: What is your family like my family?

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Speaker 1: I'm the oldest. I have two younger sisters and a

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Speaker 1: younger brother. My brother actually just got married. I grew

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Speaker 1: up in the suburbs, you know, and I was always

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Speaker 1: that kid who was writing stories and filming stuff with

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Speaker 1: the video camera, kind of more introverted, and I kind

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Speaker 1: of just you know, I wanted to do something like

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Speaker 1: that for my career eventually, but you know, my parents

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Speaker 1: supported that for the most part until I know, used

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Speaker 1: all my dad's college money and he said.

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Speaker 5: You're cut off.

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Speaker 1: And then I felt like a starving artist and I

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Speaker 1: had to figure out my stuff for real.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's go back to you talking about being the

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Speaker 4: oldest in the family that because you had more responsibility.

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Speaker 5: Oh man, I paved the way for all those guys.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're great, but I mean I got in

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Speaker 1: trouble first for everything. I mean, my brother got away

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Speaker 1: with everything. I mean he was stowing house parties and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean my little sister found a beer can one time,

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Speaker 1: and I was grounded for like a week because if

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Speaker 1: my dad fould one beer can in the yard. There

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Speaker 1: wasn't one. It had to be one of a hundred.

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Speaker 1: We just missed one.

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Speaker 4: So with this interest in film, I think you got

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Speaker 4: your first camera when you were at ten.

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Speaker 5: I was in sixth grade, so was I guess about ten?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And did you ask for it? How did how did

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Speaker 4: you come about getting this little gadget?

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Speaker 5: I did ask for it.

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Speaker 1: My mom had an old higha camera and I used

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Speaker 1: to like to do plays and stuff for my family,

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Speaker 1: like with my siblings, and I wanted to be able

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Speaker 1: to watch it back or create it in a way

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Speaker 1: that it didn't have to be live, and so I

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Speaker 1: used my mom's camera, and then eventually I asked for

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Speaker 1: my own camera, and my grandpa gave me one for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: So well, VHS camera.

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Speaker 3: Do you remember the first film that you made?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of them. I mean, my siblings

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Speaker 1: were always my actors. Then this one when my little

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Speaker 1: sister it was like a power Puff Girl thing where

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Speaker 1: she had this blonde wig on.

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Speaker 5: And it was ridiculous. I gotta find these old dastes.

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Speaker 1: But I was just trying to emulate what I was seeing,

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Speaker 1: you know, on TV and try to make some either scary.

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Speaker 5: Moment or you know, how do you do that?

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Speaker 1: Like with camera trip and just trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what I could do to, you know, impress those around

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Speaker 1: me with my skills.

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Speaker 3: So in high school, you would have been voted most

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Speaker 3: likely to.

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Speaker 5: I don't know, it's so weird growing mccassle.

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Speaker 1: It's like, back then doing this wasn't that cool, which

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Speaker 1: sounds crazy now now it's like everyone's a content creator.

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Speaker 5: But I was kind of an outlier a little bit

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Speaker 5: with that.

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Speaker 1: It was most people don't make it, so it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I'm trying to be an artist or filmmaker, it's

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Speaker 1: like that's a long shot, right, And it felt like

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Speaker 1: that to me too. I think now i'd be way cooler,

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Speaker 1: But back then I was kind of like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: that guy who does that weird stuff sometimes, but you know,

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Speaker 1: he's cool. But like, I wasn't like the popular kid

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Speaker 1: per se, and I hung around with those same people,

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Speaker 1: but it was not really like a popular thing to

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Speaker 1: be doing.

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Speaker 5: Didn't mind. But it's like the total opposite now, which

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Speaker 5: is kind of funny.

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Speaker 4: Outlier back then, Now you're right in the midst of it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I don't mind that. I like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean all I ever wanted to do was do

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Speaker 1: what I'm passionate about and be like sustainable, you know,

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Speaker 1: just be able to create stuff and pay my bills.

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Speaker 5: Like that was just that simple thought.

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Speaker 3: So you went to college, and then fun went to college,

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Speaker 3: and then you went back to college. What's the deal

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Speaker 3: with the college?

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Speaker 5: You guys need me to finish college?

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Speaker 3: No, I know you didn't.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I just didn't like schooling explained it. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: I just honestly I hated school. But I just I

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Speaker 5: wasn't a good student.

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Speaker 1: I always was in my head about thinking about what

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Speaker 1: I was going to create next, and didn't pay attention. Well,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about the next thing, and I was

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Speaker 1: trying to, you know, make it on my own, even

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Speaker 1: to my own detriment.

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Speaker 5: I was going to try to do that, and so

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Speaker 5: maybe I learned the hard way, and I kind of did.

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Speaker 1: And once I round my dad's college money, I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh man, I'm like, you know, a server, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not making that much money and my as not going

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Speaker 1: to help me with college anymore.

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Speaker 5: I gotta figure this out now.

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Speaker 1: But I ended up figuring it out, but it took

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Speaker 1: years of you know, just grinding.

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Speaker 3: How did you come up with the idea of doing

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Speaker 3: a podcast?

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Speaker 4: Because when you started podcasting it was really new.

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Speaker 1: It was I just I was at a point in

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Speaker 1: my career where I was tired of being broke and

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Speaker 1: I was tired of doing stuff.

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Speaker 5: For other people.

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Speaker 1: I was a music video director and it was cool

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Speaker 1: at first, and it kind of just became draining. I

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Speaker 1: didn't like, you know, putting all this effort into something

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Speaker 1: that was for someone else, really, and so I just

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Speaker 1: had this idea one day, like, I really like these

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Speaker 1: true crime documentaries.

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Speaker 5: How does someone become the person who does that?

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Speaker 1: Did they just decide one day, Hey, I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: a true crime documentary. I was like maybe, And so

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Speaker 1: I thought maybe I should do that. And I listened

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Speaker 1: to Cereal because my friend showed it to me, and

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Speaker 1: I was blown away that I that I, with my

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Speaker 1: ADHD brain, was so enthralled by an audio show. I

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Speaker 1: really really truly loved it. I was like, guys, you

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Speaker 1: got to all check this out. And so I had

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Speaker 1: them I have maybe I make this this true crime documentary,

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Speaker 1: this investigation, but I'll make a podcast as a proof

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Speaker 1: of concepts to maybe get the Hollywood execs to bite

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Speaker 1: on me. However, this works here, so it's really just

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Speaker 1: a stepping stone in my head. And then that really

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Speaker 1: you know, blew up and gained traction. Then it became

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Speaker 1: halfway through another business, which became my business.

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Speaker 4: So that is a lesson for people like you who

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Speaker 4: say I have a dream.

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Speaker 3: Now I just kind of figure out the way to

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Speaker 3: make it work.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I did not set out at all to

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Speaker 1: be I didn't even like understand that you could even

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Speaker 1: make money with a podcast because.

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Speaker 5: There wasn't really a blueprint for that. I didn't know

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Speaker 5: that all.

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Speaker 1: And so clearly it wasn't like a viable business plan

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Speaker 1: at that at that time ended up being one, but

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Speaker 1: on accident.

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Speaker 3: Right, So how did you get this love for true

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Speaker 3: crime because the terror Grins did?

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Speaker 5: It was wrong with me, right, No, that was.

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Speaker 3: Wrong with you.

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Speaker 4: It's like you have this mine where you like puzzles

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Speaker 4: and you you are trying to solve the puzzle.

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Speaker 3: So where does this come from?

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Speaker 1: I think I just had this sort of innate curiosity

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Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people have just you

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Speaker 1: know it, like what happened? Like why can't we figure

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Speaker 1: that out right, And so I'm just looking at Tara

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Speaker 1: Grinstead's case, which was season one of Up and Vanished.

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Speaker 5: Just look at the logline of the whole thing. I'm like,

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Speaker 5: what happened here? Like this is ridiculous? How do we

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Speaker 5: not know yet?

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Speaker 1: And it just kind of bothers me a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I want to make sense of it. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess so much so that I would make a whole

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Speaker 1: podcast about it and you know, put myself right in

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Speaker 1: the middle of it. But I've always just kind of

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Speaker 1: been fascinated by even the people who do messed up things.

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Speaker 1: Why are they doing that? Because I can't ever fathom

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Speaker 1: doing that myself. So what makes someone you know, evil

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Speaker 1: or do this or whatever? Those things kind of pique

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Speaker 1: my curiosity because I don't understand it really and I

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Speaker 1: want to get as close to it as I can

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Speaker 1: to it because it's just mind blowing to me.

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Speaker 4: Well, the fact that you have millions of people literally

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Speaker 4: listening to your podcast, what does that.

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Speaker 5: Tell you that it's working? Okay? That I yeah, that

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Speaker 5: I could make one more? I guess No, I think

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Speaker 5: it's really cool.

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Speaker 1: I just I never imagined there being I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what the ceiling was for an audience, right I was.

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Speaker 1: I thought five thousand people was cool because I knew

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Speaker 1: it was more Facebook friends than I had at the time.

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Speaker 5: I was like, that's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it's five thousand people, you know.

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Speaker 1: But then it became you know, one hundred thousand million millions.

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Speaker 1: I was like, wow, Like I don't even like really

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Speaker 1: compute that really, but it's validating and it really you know,

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Speaker 1: up in Fantasy Season one was very hard for me

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Speaker 1: to do, probably one of the hardest times in my life,

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Speaker 1: to be honest Why because I was kind of out

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Speaker 1: there on an island by myself a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: I was very aware of the risk was that I

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Speaker 1: was taking, and it was just unfamiliar territory and it

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Speaker 1: was something very serious that was living, breathing, changing, and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have a blueprint to follow, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to misstep or mess up, but also.

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Speaker 5: Didn't want to be too scared to do anything.

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Speaker 1: And so honestly, the listeners really kind of made me

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Speaker 1: feel validated to keep going a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Now. You and I met when you were doing Atlanta Monster.

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Speaker 4: The surprise for me back then was that even though

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Speaker 4: you lived in Kannas.

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Speaker 3: Are you really hadn't heard of the missing and murder?

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Speaker 1: I really, and I hate that that's even true, but

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Speaker 1: I really hadn't. And I was like, you know, my

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Speaker 1: business partner brought it up to me, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: really know what he was talking about. And I looked

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Speaker 1: it up and was like, how did I not know

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Speaker 1: about this? And I kind of thought, I mean, if

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Speaker 1: I didn't know about it, there's got to be other

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Speaker 1: people from my generation or from where I came from

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Speaker 1: who maybe didn't know about it either.

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Speaker 5: And that turned out to be true.

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Speaker 1: There's others who knew about it but didn't know the

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Speaker 1: whole story or had not thought about it in years,

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Speaker 1: and it was maybe left unsolved in some way for them.

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Speaker 1: And so it felt right to explore this again, and

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Speaker 1: just as a history lesson.

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Speaker 3: Even so, let me tell you this new one with

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Speaker 3: the UFO. That's scary. So what about you? Are you

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Speaker 3: believe or skeptic?

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Speaker 1: So before I made the show, I always thought it

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Speaker 1: was a fun idea, right, I like Steven Spielberg.

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Speaker 5: I liked you know encounters, you know et It's.

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Speaker 1: Just like a fun thing, Like, wouldn't it be cool

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Speaker 1: if it was sort of my thought line, right, And

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Speaker 1: as I dug into it and really started talking to people,

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Speaker 1: I was like, man.

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Speaker 5: This is ridiculous, how real it is?

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Speaker 1: And I was kind of surprised myself, and I went

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Speaker 1: from sure, maybe to absolutely there's something going on.

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Speaker 5: Is it everything that we think all the time?

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Speaker 1: No, But I also think that we know nothing and

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Speaker 1: it's silly for us to think that we know anything.

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Speaker 3: And that were the only creations.

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Speaker 1: That would be a bigger anomaly than there being thousands

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Speaker 1: of other things out there.

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Speaker 4: So how do you come up with the ideas for

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Speaker 4: your podcast?

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Speaker 3: I mean they wake you up in the middle of the.

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Speaker 1: Night, go, oh my god, this actually this idea was

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Speaker 1: I remember a Christmas break two years ago. I thought, man,

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Speaker 1: it would be cool if I could make a podcast

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Speaker 1: about UFOs. Then my first thought was how am I

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Speaker 1: going to pull this off? I know, the first thing

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Speaker 1: I was going to say is like, oh no, man,

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Speaker 1: Like you're that true crime guy and it's like is

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Speaker 1: he going hop the deep end.

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Speaker 5: A little bit here? Right?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, how do I tell this

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Speaker 1: story in a way that doesn't feel like it's force

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Speaker 1: fed to you? It's like all the UFO stuff I've

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Speaker 1: ever watched for the most part growing up is like

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Speaker 1: fan service stuff. It's for people who believe in it,

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Speaker 1: and so it makes you feel.

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Speaker 5: Like, Okay, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Come on, but where's the objective approach about Okay, like

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Speaker 1: what's this going on?

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Speaker 5: Because everyone's I think curious about that, and if you,

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Speaker 5: you know.

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Speaker 1: Staunchly don't believe at all, I think that you haven't

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Speaker 1: really looked at the information yet.

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Speaker 5: And I just kind of.

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Speaker 1: Took that approach and kept building from that and really

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Speaker 1: wanted to have an investigative approach like I do with

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Speaker 1: any sort of true crime story I'm doing, but just

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Speaker 1: apply it to something different. And I liked the liberty

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Speaker 1: of that where it didn't have the same sensitivity as

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Speaker 1: this other stories that I've been a part of, and

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Speaker 1: it had this sort of fun element to it, and

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Speaker 1: I just like to, you know, able to show off

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Speaker 1: some of my other passions and skills through that and

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Speaker 1: also really kind of tell a story that I think

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Speaker 1: needs to be told.

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Speaker 4: This is the Monica Pearson Show from the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Well,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of your passions also is music. Are

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Speaker 4: you still in the band right side?

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Speaker 3: Of the tree.

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Speaker 1: I'm not still in the band. Maybe one day we'll

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Speaker 1: bring the band back together, but I did.

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Speaker 3: You don't have time anymore for your music.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's like, once you're like a music artist at all,

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Speaker 1: you always think about that and you're like, I've made

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Speaker 1: songs in the recent past with some of my friends,

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Speaker 1: but not in a serious professional way. I think there'll

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Speaker 1: be a time where I'm like, yeah, like here's some

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Speaker 1: stuff I made for fun and just put it out.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's kind of how I got into, like

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Speaker 1: kind of where I got here. I was doing I

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Speaker 1: was filming on my own videos on YouTube, and then

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Speaker 1: I started doing parody videos of rap songs, and I

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Speaker 1: started making my own rap songs and they were ridiculous

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Speaker 1: and people liked them. They were funny, and you know,

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Speaker 1: garnered this big sort of YouTube audience and did that

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Speaker 1: for several years, met a bunch of cool producers in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta that I still know today, and eventually it kind

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Speaker 1: of got burnt out and was started to feel like

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Speaker 1: a starving artist and decided to focus more on my

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Speaker 1: filmmaking and try to build a business out of that,

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Speaker 1: and did that for years, and then you know, got

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Speaker 1: burnt out on that too, and then I made a podcast,

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's scary to think back, like, wow,

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Speaker 1: what if I didn't make a podcast, because you know,

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Speaker 1: if it didn't work, I was just going to pivot

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Speaker 1: to the next thing. It's like, okay, whatever that was,

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Speaker 1: but it's like next. But it just happened to work.

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Speaker 1: But I had failed a million times before that, though,

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Speaker 1: I still.

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Speaker 3: Feel you still fail at what.

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Speaker 1: I just I don't know. It isn't always feel like

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Speaker 1: you're doing what do it mean?

379
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Speaker 3: Look like okay?

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Speaker 1: And I like to challenge myself enough to not just

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Speaker 1: be so settled in how cool this is right now,

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Speaker 1: because I think that mindset is a slippery slope. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: I like the challenge of doing better than I did

384
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Speaker 1: last time, so all these other things I've learned become

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Speaker 1: more like autonomous really, and the challenge is fun.

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Speaker 3: So you've become extremely successful.

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Speaker 5: Thank you?

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Speaker 3: What has it cost you everything?

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Speaker 5: I was kidding it's cost me that as a.

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Speaker 3: Joke, right, But I looked at your eyes and.

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Speaker 1: I know, right yeah, that there was a moment a

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Speaker 1: couple of years ago where I looked up and I

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Speaker 1: was like, how do we get here? And you hear

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00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 1: people say that sometimes and you're like, what do you

395
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Speaker 1: even mean? How do you not know how you got here?

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Speaker 1: But I really felt like like I made up and vanished.

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Speaker 5: It was a really big success.

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Speaker 1: It was new to me, and my first thought after

399
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Speaker 1: that was, I don't want to just be the up

400
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Speaker 1: and vanish guy, and I want to grab the bull

401
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,560
Speaker 1: by the horns. So I immediately went and made Atlanta Monster,

402
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 1: huge pivot, bigger risk, and I took it very seriously.

403
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: Then I made up in Vanish season two, and then

404
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: I made another show Radio Rental and it was after

405
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Speaker 1: like all that three years, I kind of looked around.

406
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: I just had tunnel vision on, had the blinders on

407
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: on purpose.

408
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Speaker 5: I was like, where are some of my old friends?

409
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Speaker 5: Or you know, why am I so lost?

410
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Speaker 1: And so I kind of had that moment where I

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Speaker 1: had to recalibrate, and that took some time, and that's

412
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 1: a constant you know, look in the mirror reality check

413
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Speaker 1: that you just got to do that I still do.

414
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Speaker 1: But I was able to come out of that alive,

415
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Speaker 1: and I, you know, kind of protect myself from going

416
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Speaker 1: down that far again. It's been really hard, but also

417
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Speaker 1: I think I'm better at managing it now, and I

418
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Speaker 1: kind of like the journey. It's like I used to

419
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,919
Speaker 1: be so concerned about getting somewhere, but it's like I

420
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Speaker 1: already did things.

421
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Speaker 5: That I thought I would never do.

422
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Speaker 1: So now I'm just like, well, I want to do

423
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Speaker 1: the things that I thought I could definitely not do,

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Speaker 1: and if I don't, that's fine. But I like the

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Speaker 1: journey And like, once I accepted that, it became less

426
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Speaker 1: stressful a little bit.

427
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Speaker 3: So how do you relax.

428
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: Just with my friends hanging out, you know, dealing with

429
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,840
Speaker 1: true crime stuff and heavy material and you know, a

430
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: heartbroken family, victims family.

431
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Speaker 5: It's very draining and it's a lot. It's heavy.

432
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Speaker 1: But thankfully, like the people that I work with are

433
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: like some of my best friends, and we can navigate

434
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 1: it because we've learned a lot from each other and

435
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: we can sort of it's like our own little adventure

436
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 1: that we're on, you know. And if it wasn't that,

437
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,880
Speaker 1: it would be I probably couldn't keep doing it. Why

438
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: the name Tenderfoot TV, Well, my dad wanted me to

439
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: join Boy Scouts. Wait, he made me join Boy Scouts.

440
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: He is a Eagle Scout. Oh, he's he's the middle brother.

441
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: He has four other brothers. They all were Eagle Scouts basically,

442
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: and so he's like, I want you to join Boy Scouts.

443
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,239
Speaker 1: I was like, Dad, I don't want to do that.

444
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: It's corny, Like I don't want to do this made

445
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: me and made me do it. I wrote my friend

446
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: into it. I only made it as far as the

447
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 1: first level, which they don't give out for free, but

448
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 1: it's a complete stuff, which the lowest.

449
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:32,639
Speaker 5: Rank is Tenderfoot.

450
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 1: And I was trying to think of a cool name

451
00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: for my company, so I sounded more legit.

452
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 5: So I was like, hey, from Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta,

453
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 5: which was nothing. It was just me and my apartment.

454
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,560
Speaker 1: But I heard Sarah Kanick say something something about some

455
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 1: radio station. I was like, where am I from? It

456
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: just became the name of my company. Yeah, that's the

457
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,399
Speaker 1: real story. So for that, I'm like, hey dad, I'm Tenderfoot.

458
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: That's still so your dad cuts you off. What see

459
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:05,440
Speaker 3: think of your success? Now?

460
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 5: They love it.

461
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 1: I think that they always probably saw something in me.

462
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 5: But even if you're really talented, it's just hard out here.

463
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 1: I know very talented people who just haven't got a

464
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 1: shot at it yet.

465
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 5: I know more people like that than not.

466
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: And if there's so much as out of your control,

467
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: so to be able to, you know, be successful in

468
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: the business side of things too, and be sustainable in

469
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 1: any way as an artist is just an accomplishment on

470
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 1: its own. And I was really concerned that I could

471
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: never do it and if I, if I, if I

472
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: couldn't do something like this, I would be I would

473
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,160
Speaker 1: be probably nothing.

474
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 5: I would I wouldn't have a lot to show for anything.

475
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: But once I got a taste of, like, hey, I

476
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,680
Speaker 1: think I can make this work, I was never ever

477
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: going to back down on that because I knew how

478
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 1: scary it was going back that way. So I think

479
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 1: they're definitely proud, and I'm just glad that I was

480
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: able to, you know, complete the loop a little bit

481
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: and say, hey, like, maybe all that dumb stuff I

482
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 1: was doing not going to the college worked out.

483
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 3: Did you give it back with money?

484
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 5: No? The E didn't bring that up.

485
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: But I'll say this though, which if my dad listens

486
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 1: to this, he knows that we're even because I lived

487
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,919
Speaker 1: in Pasty Market, like the flats there for a year

488
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: or so, and I was the busiest time of my life,

489
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,080
Speaker 1: so I was always gone and my parents had just

490
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: sold their house and they asked if they could stay

491
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: with me. I was like sure, thinking like how cool

492
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: is it that my parents wanted to stay with me.

493
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 5: Then a year goes by it I'm like, guys, you

494
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 5: got a oh.

495
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,800
Speaker 1: Right, I can't bring a girl over here. So I

496
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: think we're even how for as an adult. I mean,

497
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 1: they had like all their friends over and stuff. I

498
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: was happy to have shared like Atlanta with them because

499
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: they never really kind of spent time in the city

500
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: like that, and they like fell in love with it,

501
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 1: which was cool.

502
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 5: But I think we're even those writ checks, you know, that.

503
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: Was the reverse. Usually it's the kids to go live

504
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: with their parents.

505
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 5: I know, I know, I thought it was really cool.

506
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 5: I was like, no soon, yeah, So.

507
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 4: What would our listeners be surprised to learn about you?

508
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: I think that because of what I do, there's like

509
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,640
Speaker 1: a serious nature to it that I take seriously, and

510
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: you know, I think that every other time I'm like

511
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: pretty like goofy and silly, and it's kind of how

512
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 1: I just even deal with hard stuff. Sometimes I think

513
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: people would be maybe taking it back by that a

514
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: little bit. But if you know me, you know that

515
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: I'm like that, and then you know that like when

516
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 1: I'm getting serious and down to business like I do,

517
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: and I will, but like, I don't want to live.

518
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 5: In that state forever.

519
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: I kind of want to just be silly and look

520
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: at all the silly things on life too, And like

521
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: I liked that sort of mentality as well. I think

522
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: people might be surprised that I'm not this super serious

523
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: detective kind of guy, because I'm really not.

524
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 5: I just make one, I play one on my podcast.

525
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 4: But that voice of yours is so distinctive.

526
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like, thank you, but that's I still

527
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:24,400
Speaker 1: don't really compute that either.

528
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 5: I appreciate that you don't.

529
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: I look at someone like you who has that iconic voice,

530
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: and I grew up, you know, watching you on TV

531
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: and hearing your voice, never thinking that I had anything

532
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: broadcast worthy at all. I felt like an imposter doing

533
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: that a little bit. I guess people you know, proved

534
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: me wrong a little bit, but I never really looked

535
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: at it like that.

536
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 5: So come for me. That means a lot, and I

537
00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 5: appreciate it.

538
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: No, I love your voice.

539
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 5: I love your voice.

540
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 4: You use music in your podcast in a way to

541
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 4: set the scene and then to move from scene to scene.

542
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 4: So music is that just for you to play? You

543
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 4: really think very seriously about.

544
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: What you use.

545
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's really kind of my part of my process.

546
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: I mean it's not everyone is like that, which I

547
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: get that, but for me, I.

548
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,440
Speaker 5: Like setting the tone of this thing.

549
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: I want to feel what this feels like. And that's

550
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: I really kind of connected to it in that way.

551
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 1: So everything you've ever heard that I was like a

552
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: strong part of like any shows that I've hosted, But

553
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: at some point I felt that to my core and

554
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: then I eventually kind of like, you know, move past

555
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: that because.

556
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 5: I can't live in that state. But I like the

557
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 5: music part of it.

558
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: It makes me feel connected, and you know, I have

559
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: a passion for music, and it's cool to be able

560
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: to incorporate that in ways that are cinematic and I

561
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 1: one of my good friends is our composer and we

562
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: have a lot of fun making bizarre.

563
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 5: Cues and it's it's cool.

564
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 3: You know, you really are a musician, you do?

565
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: I mean, not really, but I'll take it. But I

566
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: think I'm I have that sort of brain. But I've

567
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: never been like an instrument guy. I could, you know,

568
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: write lyrics, sing, poorly, but also I get the structure

569
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: and stuff, so I'm able to, you know, utilize music

570
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 1: that we have and you know, maybe disassemble it and

571
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: reassemble it in a way that is not.

572
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 5: So banging it on your head and more inviting you

573
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 5: to it. Right.

574
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: What scares you?

575
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 5: Oh man?

576
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 1: I think everything is kind of a little bit scary.

577
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think that just there's the unknown

578
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 5: is scary.

579
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: And you know, I think everyone wants a little bit

580
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: of control in their lives, right, some more than others.

581
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: I feel the same way. I think the unknown is

582
00:27:54,320 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: super scary. And I've been in so many uncomfortable situations.

583
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 5: Where I like this is it or I can't take this.

584
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: So many times that I kind of just got over it,

585
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: over it a little bit. I still feel like that,

586
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 1: but I know it's not the end of the world,

587
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: and so I and I've also learned that I can

588
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: be more myself because I think that it's.

589
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 5: Gonna be okay.

590
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: You know, I was giving myself all the stress the

591
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: whole time, like trying to perform for somebody else.

592
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think just life is scary. The unknown

593
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 5: is scary.

594
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: But you know, all you can do is what you

595
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: can do, and that's my mindset and just hope it works.

596
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: That's it. But I think the unknown is scary.

597
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: Well you ever get married again.

598
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: I would totally get married again. Definitely, not immediately. Yeah,

599
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: at first I was like, I'm never getting married again.

600
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,719
Speaker 1: But it's not like that. It's more, you know, I

601
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: wanted to like heal from that and move on.

602
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 5: But if it was the right person, yeah I would.

603
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 5: I would do that.

604
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm not necessarily seeking that, but if I, you know,

605
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: fell in love with that person in that way and

606
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: it was that part of our lives.

607
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely, But aren't.

608
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 4: You really truly married to Tinderfoot and your possible exactly?

609
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 1: So I don't want to and I know that I

610
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: and I also know that I won't be like this forever.

611
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: There'll be there'll be a time where I can step

612
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: back a little bit more to do those.

613
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 5: Kinds of things.

614
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: But I don't want to, you know, over commit and

615
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: bring in somebody that I that I I end up

616
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: letting down because I have to take care of this

617
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: right now. Because I'm also looking out for my livelihood.

618
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: I also want to, like, I want this just to work.

619
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: I want I want to win, so I can. You know,

620
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: why is my sister, you know, asking money for school supplies?

621
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 6: Like?

622
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 5: Screwed that right?

623
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: It's like, I want to be able to help and

624
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: create and not think about the bill's money.

625
00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,880
Speaker 5: Part, because that's that part sucks.

626
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 3: You know, there's still a lot of kid in you.

627
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm a young soul like truly, but yeah,

628
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: I'll think I can change that. So if I if

629
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: I didn't, if I wasn't successful artist anyway, I'd be

630
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: in big trouble.

631
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 5: So it would be pain.

632
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 3: Ibi Payne, thank you so much for sharing this time

633
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: with me. You don't know how much this means to me.

634
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 4: This show was produced by Ryan Horn, Tyson Horn, and

635
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 4: Mere Davis. Audio recording and podcast production by Shane Beckler.

636
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 4: Our executive producer is Samantha Stamler. Additional production provided by

637
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 4: Shia Everett, Kamal McAllister, Jason Lillard, and Kamanie Colmer. Special

638
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 4: thanks to AJC Editor in Chief Leroy Chapman and AJC

639
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 4: President and Publisher Andrew Moose. New episodes of The Monica

640
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 4: Pearson Show drop every Tuesday, so be sure to follow

641
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 4: me on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

642
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 4: And check out the videos on AJC dot com.

643
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 6: Talking to Death is a production of tenorfoot TV and

644
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 6: iHeart Podcasts, created and hosted by Payne Lindsay. For tenorfoot TV,

645
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 6: executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Co executive

646
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 6: producer is Mike Rooney. For iHeart Podcasts, executive producers are

647
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 6: Matt Frederick and Alex Williams. With original music by Makeup

648
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 6: and Vanity Set. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington,

649
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 6: Sean Nerney, Dayton Cole, and Gustav Wilde for Coohedo. Production

650
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 6: support by Tracy Kaplan, Mara Davis, and Trevor Young. Mixing

651
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 6: and mastering by Cooper Skinner and Dayton Cole. Our cover

652
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 6: art was created by Rob Sheridan. Check out our website

653
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 6: Talking to Death podcast dot com.

654
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 5: Thanks for listening to this episode of Talking to Death.

655
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: This series is released weekly absolutely free, but if you

656
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: want ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe

657
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 1: to tenderfoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or go to tenderfootplus

658
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: dot com