1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: My guest is the one and only Bonnie Rate who's 3 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: on tour and support of a new album. Just like that, Bonnie, 4 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: good to have you on the podcast. Nice to be 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: with you, Bob. So what inspired you to cut this album? Oh? 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: I cut my records so I have some new songs 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,200 Speaker 1: to play on the road. That's always the pretty much 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: the only reason I do it. And I love having 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: new stuff to play, and my fans probably enjoy it too. 10 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: And uh, it's always daunting to not repeat yourself. Each 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: record has another batch of love gone astray and how 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: are you going to say something new after that many records? 13 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: But I managed to when I get the songs compiled 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: and I hit in the studio. But it's always got 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: kind of a five year ahead of me plan of 16 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, holding the band in the crew and which 17 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: halls were going to book a year in advance. And 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: that was interrupted by COVID, of course, but the plan 19 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: was still, you know, every after the two year tour 20 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: to promote the record, that's about a year to prepare 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: another one and a year to make it and get 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: ready for the the big tour in another two years, 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 1: so it's kind of been the same since nineteen one. 24 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: And you mentioned love going a straight? Is that something, 25 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: because that's what music normally is. Is that your life? 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: Why do you characterize it was a little tongue in 27 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: cheek about you know, if everybody got along, I wouldn't 28 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: have anything to sing about. You know. The the kind 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: of songs I sing about mostly are love stories of 30 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: different aspects of love, you know, betrayal or longing or 31 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: there you go again or you know, why did you 32 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: do it? Whatever? It's just you know, some of the 33 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: songs like one that you love not the only one. 34 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: Mr Brady's tune um is about a true love song. 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: You know, that's a beautiful I do rarely. There's only 36 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: cut about two or two songs about love that are 37 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: really when it's working out? Okay. People learn from the 38 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: songs you sing. Did you learn anything? A lot of 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: the songs you didn't write, and the more you perform them, 40 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: the insights come to you relative to love in life. Absolutely. 41 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: I I picked the songs because they have something to 42 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: say to me that I need to hear, and I 43 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: when I sing it, the message comes through. And um, 44 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: you know, I hope that fans find something worthwhile in it. 45 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: You know I seemed to be striking a chord, or 46 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: I probably wouldn't get the opportunity to make another record, 47 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: or it would fail, and then I would hang it 48 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: up and stay home. Um. I think that the mix 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: of songwriters that I picked from are some of my 50 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: favorite artists anyway, their whole repertoire. But when I find 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: a song, I know it's right for me and it's 52 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: got something to say for me at the time. And 53 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: what is the process or people always sending you demos 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 1: or you searching or you just start doing it when 55 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: you start a project, I'm always on the hunt. Um. 56 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: I always go back in my own library of things 57 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: that I artists that I love, and go back and 58 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: revisit Keith Richard's first solo albums, you know, Bruce Hornsby's 59 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: third album, Jackson Brown. You know there there's there's artists 60 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: that are friends of mine that I love, Little Feet 61 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: and people like that John Hyatt that I just listened 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: to for pleasure. But I'm also cocking an ear for 63 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: giving a second listen to some of the the songs 64 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: that have kind of been tucked away in my back 65 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: pocket that I might end up cutting. But for many, 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: many years, probably forty years, I listened to most, if 67 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: not all, of the unsolicited cassettes that people sent me. Um. 68 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: Then they became CDs and and all those years I'd 69 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: never found one song I could do. So I I 70 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:00,080 Speaker 1: gave myself a break after forty years to say, you, oh, 71 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: I think you can probably just wait for your friends 72 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: to send your songs. Are you so? I call up 73 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: my pals and say, who have you been listening to? 74 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: And I listened to. I do a lot of research. 75 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 1: I read a lot of reviews. I listened to a 76 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: lot of um interesting things that people turned me onto 77 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: and the journalist turned me onto him. It's a constant hunt. 78 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: So how did you meet Lowell? George? Um, I don't know, 79 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't. I think you're at one generation younger than me, 80 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: or at least. But there was a band out of 81 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 1: l A called Fanny, which was the first all female 82 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: band that could really play well, oh you did there 83 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: you go? So Fanny we're friends of mine. I think 84 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: we were all on warners. I don't even know if 85 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: they were on warners that want to they were, Yeah, 86 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: that's where I met them because we're you know, Alan 87 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: Hussain and the Meters and James and Ryan Randy were 88 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,559 Speaker 1: all new, you know. When I first joined the label, 89 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: it was because of the roster that they had, and 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: I've became really good friends with June Millington and the band. 91 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: And I used to stay at Hetty Lamar's old house 92 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: up from the Chateau Marmont, a little bit slower. They had, 93 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: they rented, they rented, They rented Hetty Lamar's old house 94 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: right up from the iconic Chateau Marmont above Sunset stripped 95 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: down from the rock Sy and the Tower Records, And 96 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: when I came out from Cambridge, I would stay with them. 97 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: And that's when I heard Little Feet second album and 98 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: I went crazy. And June Millington introduced me to Little 99 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: George And was there an instant connection? How did you 100 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: ultimately form the bond and go on the road and 101 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: make music recorded music together? Absolutely instant connection. He was 102 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: a fan of mine, I was a fan of his. 103 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 1: We both couldn't believe we were from l A. But 104 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that was the same with Ray Couter. You know, it's 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: sort of the kind of uh, kind of shallow surf 106 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 1: music scene that was in my junior high school all 107 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: of a sudden turned into you know, these super cool 108 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: roots music people, and uh, I just you know, Lowell 109 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: was the one who turned me onto how to keep 110 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: my slide note holding longer. He gave me this mx 111 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: R compressor pedal and changed my whole slide style. So 112 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: that was a fantastic thing. But I mean, along with 113 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: Hendrix and Stevie ray Vaughan, I think Lowell was one 114 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: of the greatest guitar players that's ever lived. Okay, getting 115 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: to the third album, taking my time, I feel the 116 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: same on the second side. Who plays the solo? You 117 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: were Lowell? Lowell plays the solo. That's what I thought, 118 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: But then I was to say, it's so the great 119 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: thing about Lowell is he knew how to be subtle 120 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 1: and leave things out, which in a world of obviousness 121 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: is very rare. Yes, I completely agree. And and you know, 122 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,840 Speaker 1: there would be times when he was in the studio 123 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: and just overlaying many many slide parts, almost like an arranger, 124 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 1: you know, putting more lines and string lines over his 125 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: own songs, and sometimes it would get crowded. But by 126 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: the time I came out as a record he did. 127 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 1: He was a pretty He was pretty good at being 128 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: tasteful with his edits and not over not over sweetening 129 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: the pot. Okay. He was involved in the production of 130 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: Taking My Time, and then he was not. What went 131 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: on there, Uh, that was a kind of a personal 132 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: thing that happened with us. Um. He also wanted to 133 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: play slide on more songs than I wanted him to. 134 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: I said, hey, you know, I love the way you play, 135 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: but you gotta make some room for me here. And uh, 136 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: but it was more like a personal thing that was 137 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: between us. And I asked my friend John Hall from 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: Orleans to come out and Taj to come down. And 139 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: Taj and John had we been in a band together. 140 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: John was one of the guitar players when John Simon 141 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: was producing the Big Tuba Band with Taj and John 142 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: Hall lived in Woodstock and played on my second album, 143 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: so that they both agreed to come in and help 144 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: finish the record. Heard okay. Even to this day high 145 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: profile artists mostly men. What was it like back in 146 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: the early seventies being the only woman in the room. 147 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: In many cases, it seemed pretty standard. I mean, there 148 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: was a lot of people that I admired you know 149 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: Joan Baez and Judy Collins and Odetta and you know 150 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: Peter Paul Mary. There was a lot of women that 151 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: were always part of making records and they picked their 152 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: material and worked with their partner producer, and um, I 153 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: never experienced any sexism that way or or you know 154 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: maybe and also because I was a musician, and then 155 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: those women are musicians as well. But because I was 156 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: a guitar player, um I got some respect at at 157 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: an age that would probably be surprising, you know, not 158 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: for a guy to get it twenty one, but for 159 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: a woman to get to play pretty good blues guitar. 160 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: It got my foot in the door. That's why I 161 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: got my deal, I think. And then, but men always 162 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: have romance on their mind, and I think that's reducing 163 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: people to that and women have the same exact you know. 164 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,160 Speaker 1: Romance is one of the things on both of our 165 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: minds and the people in between as well. Love is 166 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: just part of the human condition. But when you work 167 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: in an office with someone or on tour or in 168 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: the studio, relationships happen, as we know. But if you're famous, 169 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: then they get written about more. And as you become famous, 170 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: do you have to fend off more approaches the guys 171 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: might have to fend off my approaches. No, I was 172 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: pretty pretty steady. I mean, it just wasn't. I didn't. 173 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: I didn't see any difference in my world between a 174 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: chemical you know, chemistry attraction to you know, someone in 175 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: the group that you're working with. Is wasn't any different 176 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: than from being in college. You know. It's just one 177 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: of those things. Um, you have to be careful in 178 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 1: any shipboard romance when you're out on tour. If you're 179 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: involved with someone in the band and it doesn't work 180 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: out and you're still going to be on tour for 181 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: the rest of the year, that's a really tricky, tricky situation, 182 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: just like it is in an office romance. You know, 183 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: they it's frowned upon, but you can't stop it. Okay, 184 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: you went to Radcliffe for a year, No, it was 185 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: I went to college at Harvard. Radcliffe doesn't have any classes. 186 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: So the women's part of Harvard University is Harvard Radcliffe. 187 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: Now it's completely combined. But um, I think the ratio 188 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: is four to one guys to women. I don't know 189 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: what it is anymore, but I went for a couple 190 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: of years, So what did your parents say when you 191 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: dropped out to make music. I took a semester off 192 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: to hang out with the older blues guys that I loved, 193 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: and they thought that was great, and um, they just said, 194 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: you know, you're gonna have to support yourself if you're 195 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: dropping out, then you get to get a job. And 196 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: I got to travel around all these blues festival with 197 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: with Dick Waterman and hang out with Big Bertha cut 198 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: Up and Robert Pete Williams and Buddy Guy in Junior 199 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: Wells and Son House and Fred McDowell. It was an 200 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 1: education and an opportunity I knew I would never have again, 201 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: and I could always go back to school. And I 202 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: told that to the college admissions folks. They said, come 203 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: back when you're ready. So I went back for a 204 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: year and started to play in folk clubs, um just 205 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: to make some extra money or during my time off. 206 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: And next thing I knew, I started getting asked back 207 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: and I had some You know, my boyfriend was a 208 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: booking agent, so he put me on the show with 209 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: Cat Stevens and opening for James Taylor and some blues people. 210 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: And it was kind of a hobby that was a 211 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 1: sideline for me until all of a sudden, Nat Weiss 212 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: with you know, he said to me, do you want 213 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: to You know, there's some interest in signing you with 214 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: the label, And I said, if you, if you can 215 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: get somebody to give me complete artistic control, I'll leave 216 00:11:54,960 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: college and make and make a record. And he did so. Ever, 217 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: any regrets that you didn't finish, not one, Because as 218 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: a social activist, which was what my chosen field was, 219 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: I knew that being a musician I could raise money 220 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: and more attention for the causes that I cared about, 221 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: which happened right away in the Women's movement and the 222 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: Vietnam War. I mean I was doing big, giant rallies 223 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: on Boston Common by the time, you know, making much 224 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: more of an impact that I could have if I 225 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: had joined the Peace Corps. And other than being in Cambridge, 226 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: did you actually learn anything in classes or being in 227 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: the dorm, or being amongst the student population, or in 228 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: retrospect that just got you into a place where you 229 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: could get started on your musical career. Couldn't have cared 230 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: less about starting a music career. I was absolutely loving 231 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: majoring in African studies and social relations. I've always loved school. 232 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: I always wanted to work for the American Front Service Committee, 233 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: and I was couldn't get enough of classes. And the 234 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: cool thing about Harvard was you could take senior level. 235 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: You know what, in regular regular a lot of colleges 236 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: you have to take a survey course for freshman year 237 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: and then sophomore year, and then you can't really specialize 238 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: in your master until the last couple of years. And 239 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,199 Speaker 1: with Harvard you could actually mix it up however you want, 240 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: as long as you got a year of humanities and 241 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: social science and you know, by the end of the 242 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: four years so I got. I dove right into my 243 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: African studies and social relations, you know, serious focus. And 244 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: I love being in school. And you know, they've always 245 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: said if I want to come back. I got the 246 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: Harvard Arts Medal a few years ago, and they said, 247 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: you can come back and finished if you want. But 248 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: I don't think it held me back to not have 249 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: a degree. Okay, So you grew up in l A. 250 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: We're in l A. I was right in the hills 251 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: above Studio City, and then I spent every summer in 252 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: the Adirondacks while my dad was doing summer stock. So 253 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 1: I even though I would say that I was raised 254 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: in l A. At my formative important part of my 255 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: influences were all East coast, up East coast kids that 256 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: went up to the Adirondics at my Quaker camp. And 257 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,200 Speaker 1: were you formed by what was going on the ideas 258 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: of the camp or was this how you were brought 259 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: up with your family and these ideas well, we were 260 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: a Quaker, you know, my folks converted to being um 261 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: peace activists and Quakers and kind of rejecting the more 262 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: formalized constriction of what religiosity and churches and formal religions brought. 263 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: So they were much more into you know, the Quaker 264 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: meeting where you're your center in nobody's higher than someone else. 265 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: Anyone can stand up and share um act, social activism, 266 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: being of service. I just, you know, that's the ethos 267 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: that I was raised, and I was really proud of it, 268 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: and I hung out with a lot of other Quaker 269 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: families um and then in my summertime, my family's friends 270 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: started a Quaker camp which was very international and not 271 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: focused on competitive sports or you know, it was just 272 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: a lot of you know, humanitarian humanism, international counselors and campers. 273 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: So it was really a great breeding ground for my 274 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: values in my music. And that's where the folk music counselors, 275 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, the counselor for folk music at that camp 276 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: when I was ten, made a huge influence on me. 277 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: And all those college kids were swept up in the 278 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: folk revival of the early sixties. Well, I certainly remember 279 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: here and blowing in the wind at summer camp and 280 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: other songs we sit around. What were the songs that 281 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: they were bringing to the camp that you were hearing 282 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: and learning. Well, I was eight or nine, and I 283 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: loved Odetta's records. I loved Joan Bayez. I taught myself 284 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: to play guitar based on um, those two records. And 285 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: then I loved Peter Paul and Mary and you know 286 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 1: all the folk music artists. And I read sing Out 287 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: every month and joined at Snick and Core. You know, 288 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: I was out in l A. But I couldn't wait 289 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: to be a beat nick and get to college. I 290 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: wish I could have just left and you know, at 291 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: thirteen and put on a turtleneck and moved to Greenwich Village. 292 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: But um, what I got from that was at times 293 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: they are changing. That that album of Bob Dylan's really 294 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: changed my life, even though I was you know, Pete 295 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: seeger Fan and Joan Bayez and our family marched in 296 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: peace marches, and you know, we were very much involved 297 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: in the civil rights movement as well. The musical connection 298 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: of folk music that Bob Dylan's albums when he became 299 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: especially Times They're Changing, was seminal in my life. And 300 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: then Joan Bayez's activism I think was a great model 301 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: for me as well. Okay, I think that was the 302 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: third album. The first album was mostly cover second was 303 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: Free Room with a lot of songs other people covered. 304 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: When did you actually get into Dylan with that third 305 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: album where he was always on the scene and you 306 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: were aware of him? You know? I I you know, 307 00:16:57,320 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: as as a twelve year old, I didn't have any 308 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: income to go buy records or a car to go 309 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: drive to the store. But I um, I got at camp. 310 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: I listened to my counselor's record so I was aware 311 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: of the first two albums, but I saved my money 312 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: and bought the Times They're Changing album. Okay, and you 313 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,640 Speaker 1: went to high school in l A. Too. I went 314 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: to one year of high school and then I went 315 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: to a Quaker Boarding School in Poughkeepsie the last two 316 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: years of high school because my dad got a new 317 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: Broadway show and he was going to be trying it 318 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: out on the road for a year. So as my 319 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: brothers and I scattered to the winds and I couldn't 320 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: wait to go do what the school version of what 321 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: my summer camp had been. So the last two years 322 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: were on the Hudson River, which I loved because the 323 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: whole time I was in l A, I couldn't wait 324 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: to get back east. Well that was funny because we 325 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: were all back east trying to get to l A. 326 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: I know, isn't that funny? But um, what kind of 327 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 1: kid were you growing up? The kind who was the leader, 328 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: had a lot of friends, you know, a loner what. Well, 329 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: I came out of the box pretty extroverted. So I 330 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: was the song leader at our social camp and you know, 331 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: at our club, and I was in with the hip kids, 332 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: and I was in with the intellectual kids as well. 333 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: And I kind of floated around, um in in different circles. 334 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: So I was pretty uh fulfilled at school. I loved it. 335 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: So you're a couple of years ahead of me, but 336 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: I certainly remember the folk scene, and the folksing was 337 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: so big. There was even a TV show, Hoo Nanny, 338 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden we could really put 339 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: it at Dylan going electric. But it was also before 340 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 1: that the Beatles. Were you a fan of the British Invasion? 341 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: What did you feel about Dylan going electric? You know, 342 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 1: absolutely for me, Um, the folk music I read in 343 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: the paper in the New York Times and stuff about 344 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: Dylan being booed at Newport and all that, And you know, 345 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 1: to me it was distressing because I was so political 346 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: and I wanted him to be our you know, as 347 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: he rejects, as he said, he did not want to 348 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: be that person in the culture. But there were plenty 349 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 1: of other people picking it up. I mean, I loved 350 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,320 Speaker 1: the staple singers. I loved, you know, the political songs 351 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: that were coming out more and more on the radio. 352 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: Not Eve of Destruction, but you know, they were the 353 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: Buffalo Springfield in the middle sixties. There was a lot 354 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: of the social movements of the seventies were being reflected 355 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: on the radio and the songs that people were covering. 356 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 1: And um, I I love Motown. I always loved R 357 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: and B, always loved Fats Domino and Chuck Berry. So 358 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: as there is in my life now there's a parallel 359 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: track of there's as much of me that loves the 360 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones and old blues and Chicago blues as there 361 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: is folk music. So the two just live in me 362 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: and I love I love all of it. I loved 363 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: I loved it as a teenager too. But back then, 364 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: you know, I remember w ABC on Saturday nights, they 365 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: had of you know, the war between the Beatles and 366 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: the Stones. Most most of us liked both, but we 367 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: had a preference. Well, you know, you like the Stones, 368 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: you'd like the Beatles and the other British invasion bands, 369 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: Hermit's Hermits during the Pacemakers, or that was not not 370 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: for you. I love the Beatles. I love had a 371 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: big question, John Lennon, I love me do is there's 372 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: still a great funky record And I should have known better. 373 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: I mean they made they did a great version of 374 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: Twist and Shout, but I mean Eisley's is the King. 375 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: But the Stones definitely got my attention because I was 376 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: always always loving aren't the R and B side of pop? 377 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: You know? I loved rat Charles, I loved all the 378 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: R and B records, whether it was you know, way 379 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: before Aretha Franklin's Ladies Soul and Otis Redding. There was 380 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: all of those R and B Smokey Robinson and the 381 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: Miracles and the Four Tops and the Temptations, and I 382 00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: just loved the R and B covers of the Beatles 383 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: and the Stones. But I remember my folks looking at 384 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,439 Speaker 1: went nuts for the beetles, and then I found the 385 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: stones and my parents, my mom looked at the cover 386 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 1: of the Stones and she said she was trying to 387 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: push the beetles back on me. She could tell I 388 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: was going down a dark alley with I was just 389 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: and did you go to did you go to shows 390 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: at that area? Did you go to see the stone? 391 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: I did. I went to see the Stones at Long 392 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: Beach Arena and I stood on the fence when their 393 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: limo went by from the backstage area and tried to 394 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: hurl myself, you know, through the fence, but just screaming 395 00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: and yelling and screaming and yelling. So I I completely 396 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: was nuts for the stones. And they went on shin 397 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: dig and brought helen Wolf, which did not was not 398 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: lost on me. And I was a very big teena 399 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: Iconina Turner fan as well in l A. So you 400 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: know that was I loved Less mechan and Mose Allison too. 401 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: I used to listen to the jazz station and I 402 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: just loved the funky end of pop and jazz and 403 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: soul music. Were there any advantages in being John Ray's 404 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: door or I mean and be able to get good 405 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: tickets and stuff like that, not that I found, no, 406 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: But I did get to see, you know, hang back 407 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: stage with him and watch him from my whole childhood 408 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: do the most incredible performances, eight shows a week, night 409 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: after night. I mean, he was His work ethic was astonishing, 410 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,719 Speaker 1: but it looked to us kids like he was just 411 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: getting paid to play, you know what I mean. He 412 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 1: had this whole day off to wash the car and 413 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: play golf and hang out with us, and then he 414 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: would drive in half hour into New York and play 415 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: pajama game and come back at night. So it was 416 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't get to see him in the summertime, 417 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: but because he wasn't doing summer stock, but you know, 418 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,959 Speaker 1: it was worth it. He was just he he didn't 419 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: have a real job, He didn't look like a normal dad. 420 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: You know. It was just like a Mattinee idol for 421 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: a dad. They got to sing and do what he 422 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 1: loved and get paid for it, so you know, it 423 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: was the benefit of that was pride, great pride, and 424 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 1: I got to well. One of the side things I'll 425 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: say is Hugh Beaumont, Mr Cleaver, he used to come 426 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 1: to our house. Those guys were really good friends of ours, 427 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: so I had a lot of bragging rights and yeah, 428 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: and he was just he was like that at the table. 429 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: He was like, you know, we knew him our whole life. 430 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: He was just We just couldn't believe it. So I 431 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: would pinch myself that I was going to school. I 432 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: went steady for a minute with Jerry Lewis's second son, Ronnie, 433 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 1: and then there you know, Burt Lancaster's kids were in 434 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: my class, so it was fun to be a show 435 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: business kid in a show business towns. And Sammy Khan's 436 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: daughter Laurie was one of my best friends, so that 437 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. And how old were 438 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: you when your parents split up? I was already in college. 439 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: I was nineteen. Now. I have a friend whose parents 440 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: split up when he was twenty six, and he would 441 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: think it didn't affect him at all. He seems to 442 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: be more affective than people. Even like my sister's kids 443 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: were much younger when they got her, she got divorced. 444 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: So to what to greed to the divorce affect you. 445 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: It was rough to watch my mother in so much pain. 446 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: You know, I learned a lesson about how many marriages 447 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,959 Speaker 1: stay together until the kids are grown, or menopause or 448 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 1: you know later. I was able to look back through 449 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: a lens of well, they probably weren't getting along, and 450 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't anybody's particular fault. It wasn't any of my business, 451 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: so they chose not to share it with us. But 452 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: it was rough for my mom because my dad found 453 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: someone else and and being in the public eye, he 454 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 1: was photographed with her a lot, and it was embarrassing 455 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: because my mom was kind of his quasi manager and 456 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: his music director for all those years, so she got 457 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,880 Speaker 1: a raw deal, I thought. So that part was painful. 458 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: And then, like all divorce kids, you know, one Christmas 459 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: is with your mom and the next Christmas is with 460 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: your dad, and there's a little competition going on between 461 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: who's more fun to hang out with, you know, And 462 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: that's the way it is. With you know parents. You know, 463 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:03,479 Speaker 1: when my dad was traveling all the time, he come 464 00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: home and bring us presents and he never had to 465 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: discipline us. So my mom got the short end of 466 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: the stick. She had to be the mom and the dad. 467 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 1: As years went on, how did they get along? Um, 468 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: Because they didn't have to, you know, send us back 469 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: and forth as dual custody. We were already grown. They 470 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: were I wouldn't say friendly, but when when we all 471 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: started to get married, they were civil and nice to 472 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: each other. My mom played piano for my dad to 473 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: sing at my older brother's wedding, and that was nice. 474 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: But I would say it wasn't chilly. But when I 475 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: started it, when I won Grammys in one year, I 476 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: decided to break see if they would come together as 477 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: my guests, and they they had a nice time together. 478 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: It was sweet. And how many kids were in the family, 479 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: two brothers. I'm in the middle. It's funny, you know, 480 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: the older you get them into birth order, and I 481 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: see the difference, you know, between my older sister and 482 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: the younger sister you know in the middle, and some 483 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,399 Speaker 1: of my older It was so much craziness going on. 484 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: I was sort of in my own space and are 485 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: you in the middle or in the middle. Yeah, me too, 486 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 1: And you know, I think being the woman too, I'm 487 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,080 Speaker 1: the only girl. I'm like the peacemaker that's trying to 488 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I think there's just a 489 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: certain I haven't read a lot of there's a lot 490 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 1: of literature about what the middle kid is like and 491 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: what what roles you play. But I think it's complicated 492 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,960 Speaker 1: when the divorce happens. And you know, if you if 493 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: you know, we stopped knowing each other as kids at thirteen, 494 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: fifteen and seventeen. We weren't together for the rest of 495 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: our teen years. So but in our adulthood we got 496 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: to be closer friends. And to what degree did they 497 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: affect you? Were you more of a tomboy, you know, 498 00:26:52,840 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: playing sports, etcetera? Absolutely, absolutely tomboy. My heroes were, um, 499 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: I love I love Gidget because she was a girl 500 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: at a guy's world and she was tough and they 501 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: accepted her. And you know, my older brother I had 502 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: I adored my older brother and I had crushes on 503 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: most of his friends and they were they would put 504 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: up with me. But then when I started to turn 505 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: into a girl, you know, few best a little bit. 506 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: They were making fun of me, but I was brutal, 507 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: and you know, I wish they would hang out with 508 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: me some more. But you know that's what happens with 509 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: your older siblings. They just they dump you have at thirteen. Look, 510 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: I I was a tomboy and I never wanted to 511 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 1: be a girly girl. I always saw that women were. 512 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: I just thought they had to bend themselves into shapes 513 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 1: that didn't seem too natural. So I kind of looked 514 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: up at a to Amanda Blake because she had red hair, 515 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: but also because she owned the saloon on Gun Smoke. 516 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: She loved the sheriff, but she didn't have to marry him. 517 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: That was very important message to me. Gidget Amanda Blake 518 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: on gun Smoke and uh, you know later Shirley McClain, 519 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: and so, you know, I thought she had a great life. 520 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: I never had the wife and mother calling and have 521 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: you sustained the same person, or as you've gotten older, 522 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: or as any of that girly girl stuff appealing. I'm 523 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: more comfortable with my womanhood. And you know, in my 524 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 1: when the feminist movement happened, it was really I was 525 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: right along in there. In college I mean we all demanded, 526 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,479 Speaker 1: you know, hey, we'd like to get off to you know, 527 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: maybe you could think about that, or how about doing 528 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: a dish. You know, there was a lot of that 529 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: even in our counterculture political movements, in the in college 530 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 1: and in the food co op. When I first moved 531 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: off campus, you know, there was a lot of women 532 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: asking for sexual parody and and and housework parody, you know, 533 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,840 Speaker 1: and uh, and it was just part of my generation. 534 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,120 Speaker 1: I can't even I can't even imagine the phil the 535 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: shaft Lely point of view, or you're just there to serve, 536 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: to be of service to your man. You know, I 537 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: couldn't relate. So I'm I'm a more mature version of myself, 538 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: but I still have the fourteen year old rebel in me. 539 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: And alcohol, I mean, when I went to college in Vermont, 540 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: it was the first date that gave you all rights 541 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: at age eighteen. So we've been we've been smoking dope. 542 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: But then it was cool to drink, and I drank plenty. 543 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: Was there any you know, you have had a lot 544 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: of alcohol, was any of it? I'm keeping up with 545 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: the guys. Oh, in my case, it was you couldn't 546 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: drink in Massachusetts till twenty one. My parents didn't really drink, 547 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: and I wasn't raised around it, but I immediately when 548 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: I met Dick Waterman and he was introducing me to 549 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: son House and Buddy Guy and John hanging with those 550 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: blues guys, and then the Buddy and Junior open for 551 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,280 Speaker 1: the Stones, and I went along for a month on 552 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: that European tour when I was twenty and part they 553 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: and Central Man. I mean, I was diving in for 554 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: the first time to the professional drinkers, many of whom 555 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 1: the older blues guys were actually you know, borderline alcoholics. 556 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: So it was I wanted to beat my voice down 557 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: to sound older, and I wanted I picked up cigarettes 558 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: and carried a flask a gym beam around and tried 559 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: to talk tough. I mean, it seems pathetic to me 560 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: when I hear radio shows where I'm going, yeah, man, 561 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm trying to It was embarrassing. But 562 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, by the time I was about I've developed 563 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 1: into a sound of my voice and a persona that 564 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: was more authentic. I wasn't putting on the blues mama thing. 565 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: And you realize, yeah, well, I I knew that I 566 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: was pouring it on a little bit, even in my twenties. 567 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 1: But there's nothing more humiliating and humbling than listening to 568 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: yourself high back from a radio station interview that you know, 569 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: like someone goes, man, you guys were out of it, 570 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: and you know that that sobers you up pretty good. 571 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: So you know, I I got into drinking and the 572 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: lifestyle through rock and roll in blues. It was kind 573 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: of a badge of honor, you know, I mean, who 574 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: would want to stay up when you're staying up late. 575 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 1: You don't even get off work until midnight or one o'clock, 576 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: and that's when you're on wine, so you're not you're 577 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: not making smoothies at one o'clock in the morning. So 578 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think it was a fun lifestyle. And 579 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: tell about my mid thirties when I got puffy and 580 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: I couldn't always remember what I was saying, and you know, 581 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: it just seems sloppy and I wasn't as healthy, and 582 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: I frankly, it was just the fact that Prince wanted 583 00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: to make a video and I went, man, I gotta 584 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: lose some weight, because if we make a sexy video 585 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: together and I look like this, it's not gonna work, 586 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: so I will have him his his inspiration being a 587 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 1: little big pen thin to helping me. You know why. 588 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: I quit drinking just to lose weight, but I really 589 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: liked it, so I stuck with it. Light a similar thing. 590 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: I didn't quit to lose weight, But it was such 591 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: a transition that once I was over, you know, I 592 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to go back, which was not my anticipation 593 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,479 Speaker 1: when I stopped. Yeah, I didn't expect to like it. 594 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: I thought it was just temporary, you know, And then 595 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: I was. But when I went to a musician's meeting 596 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: in l A with a bunch of friends of mine 597 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: that I used a party with that had gotten sober, 598 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: and they were clearly not turning into moonies, and and 599 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 1: you know they were. They were having a hell of 600 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: a lot more fun than most of the people that 601 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: were locked jaw at a party in the middle of 602 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: the night, just chained smoking, saying stuff that was bullshit, 603 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: you know. And uh, they kind of guided me into it, 604 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: and it seemed to be when I learned a little 605 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: bit more about an addictive behavior, you know, addictive personality. 606 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: I went, oh, ding ding ding ding, this is me, 607 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: And how about drugs as opposed to alcohol, and they 608 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: kind of went together. You know, as of about seventy two, 609 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: my second album, cocaine and alcohol were just part of 610 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: the deal. I was never a pothead, but it was 611 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: certainly around. But I never got into pills. But it 612 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: was more like just the perfect combination of blow and 613 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: drinking and at this point clean, Yeah, five years everybody else. 614 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: You know, there are a lot of people say there, 615 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: it's like during COVID people said, oh, I'm really strict. 616 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: Well I went to this person's house thing at a party. 617 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: People say, oh, yeah, I'm clean. Yeah I smoke. I 618 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: smoked marijuana. I have a drink occasionally, but I'm clean. 619 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: So it's a different thing. Yeah, well dry, The issues 620 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: for me were alcohol and cocaine would probably be would 621 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: be very I would be slipping within six months. I'd 622 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: probably be back making excuses for drinking too much. You know, 623 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: it's not worth it. I know what, I know what 624 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: that can lead to. So that those were the things 625 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: that I needed to stop. And I've been grateful, you know. 626 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: One day at a time, how did you hook up 627 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: with Prince? And supposedly there was gonna be a whole 628 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: project that ultimately never saw the light of day. Yeah, 629 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: I didn't want to make a whole album with him. 630 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 1: I just wanted to do some collaboration, but only if 631 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: we met in the middle. You know. I didn't want 632 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: to like make a Prince record or have and he 633 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: certainly wasn't gonna make one of my records. So we agreed. 634 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: I mean, he he reached out when I got dropped 635 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: from Warners and said he thought that I got treated badly. 636 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: And he said, you know I have Paisley Park. Why 637 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: don't you come on over here and we'll we'll show him. 638 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 1: You know, you'll get you a better deal, will make 639 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: a better treatment on my label. I have a lot 640 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: more respect for women musicians. And that not that the 641 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:42,320 Speaker 1: gender had anything to do with why the big scythe 642 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: came through and dropped T Bone, Burnett and R Logo 643 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: through and Man Morrison and me in the same day 644 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: on Pearl Harbor, Harvard Day, the same day that asked 645 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: the legal department at Warners, they just the big money 646 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: guys that took over Warner Brothers, Warner it was we 647 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 1: I remember Warner Elector Atlantic. They just the bean counters. Said, 648 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 1: these guys are not making enough. We re signed them 649 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: so they wouldn't go to another label. But they're not 650 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: bringing in any more money than to pay back this 651 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: big signing fee that we gave them. It's better to 652 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: just cut our losses and dump them. So how did 653 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: how did you feel about that? Oh, with a national 654 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,919 Speaker 1: tour opening for Stevie ray Van pulled out from under 655 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: me and putting my entire band and not and crew 656 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: out of work after working on an album and having 657 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,320 Speaker 1: it ready to come out, you know, with the artwork. 658 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I pay for my album, So you know, 659 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 1: I was pissed. I was very piste. So I had 660 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: to I went back on the road just as a 661 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 1: duo because I couldn't afford to take the band. But 662 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: in the summertime, I could go out with the band. 663 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: I was still had built my following. Or I could 664 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,800 Speaker 1: either open for Jimmy Buffett at a big giant place 665 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: or you know, to a pretty well, you know, three 666 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: or four thousand people. I could still draw in the 667 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: summer time. But you without a new album and the 668 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: advertising that it brings, it was very difficult to sustain 669 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: the level that I had built up to. So I 670 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: knew I would get another deal. It was just a 671 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: matter of which label, you know, I did I want 672 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,959 Speaker 1: to do rounder records? Did I want to think about 673 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: another major? And I just I just luckily I can 674 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: play the guitar and tour and make make good living 675 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: just as a duo as well. Okay, before we drop it, 676 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 1: So you ended up going to Paisley Park. What was 677 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: the experience? Oh? Yeah, we met. We met in l A. 678 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 1: We you know, had a blast. We have a lot 679 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,760 Speaker 1: of music that we love. He loved my first records, 680 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, and I was we were mutual fans. And um, 681 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,800 Speaker 1: I was supposed to go and do some preliminary writing 682 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: with him and come up with some stuff that was 683 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: fifty fifty and I injed I had a ski accident 684 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: and pulled the ligament off my thumb, so I had 685 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: to postpone that. So he went in the studio and 686 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:01,760 Speaker 1: cut some songs in his key with his lyrics without 687 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: So by the time I finally got to Minneapolis, they 688 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: weren't in my key, and they weren't lyrics that I 689 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,879 Speaker 1: wanted to sing. So, you know, I said, we're gonna 690 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,839 Speaker 1: have to get together again and start over and work 691 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: on some stuff that says the things that i'd like 692 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: to say, so it was an aboarded project because he 693 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: expected he extended his European tour after I canceled my 694 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: summer tour to work with him, and he didn't even 695 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 1: call me to say he did it. So thanks a lot. 696 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 1: But it was your ski accident. Were you a big skier? 697 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,120 Speaker 1: It's like the second lesson I ever had. And the 698 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,120 Speaker 1: woman who was taking me up the bunny slope was 699 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: star struck and she forgot to give me the polls 700 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: that break away. So this lady came back and clipped 701 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,760 Speaker 1: me and I started going down the mountain like a cartoon. 702 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: We're gonna run into a tree, so I made myself 703 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 1: fall and I yanked the finger picking bass note thumb. 704 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: But it ended up being what got me into a 705 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,200 Speaker 1: because while I was home, I decided to quit drinking 706 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: in a cast I couldn't tour, So it was a 707 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: fortuitous I like to say, I was hitchhiking to a 708 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: better life. Yeah, with your thumb. Ever ski again. We 709 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:20,120 Speaker 1: were a water ski family, so a lot of water skiing, 710 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 1: but I have not snow skinned. I would do it again, 711 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 1: but I just I think I would be much more 712 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: cautious about you know, having a breakaway poles and staying 713 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: on the slopes that were appropriate for me. And to 714 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 1: what degree are you active exercising sports today. I'm very 715 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: into a regular yoga practice, especially because I do it 716 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 1: on FaceTime with a girlfriend for fifteen years, three or 717 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,200 Speaker 1: four days a week. And we can change the time, 718 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,239 Speaker 1: we can change we can change the music, we can 719 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 1: keep talking during it, we can take breaks, we can 720 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 1: reschedule at the last minute. And here's my favorite word, free. 721 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: So I've done it, but we do a combination of 722 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, strength work and sit ups and and yoga. 723 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,160 Speaker 1: It's a it's a practice that I really love and 724 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: I've only been able to do it because of the 725 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: Buddy system. I highly recommend it because you know, you 726 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,919 Speaker 1: can say, well, I don't feel like it, she goes, okay, 727 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,320 Speaker 1: let's do it at four o'clock and then I always 728 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: do it and I always feel better. So for fifteen years, 729 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 1: I've done it every other day pretty much, and I 730 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: do a lot of hiking, and I try to get 731 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: outside at least a couple of hours a day, and 732 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: hiking in your vicinity or traveling to go hiking. Well, 733 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: when we've been on the road since April, and it's 734 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: mostly stand downtown, so it's flat, so that's not as 735 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: much fun. I used to take my bike along, but 736 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 1: I haven't been doing that as much lately. But where 737 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 1: I live in northern California. I moved to Marin County 738 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: so I could be close to hiking trails, and you know, 739 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: when I got sober, l A didn't seem as much 740 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 1: fun to me because I was kind of I used 741 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,560 Speaker 1: to be up at night, and when you're up in 742 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,280 Speaker 1: the daytime, l A's like Aggie and a lot of traffic. 743 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: And I grew up there, so I wanted to move 744 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:13,239 Speaker 1: someplace that had redwoods in the ocean and mountains. You 745 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,160 Speaker 1: go out with five other people at this point in time, 746 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 1: and you ever say, well, this is costing me money. Well, 747 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: it always costs money to take anybody out. But that's 748 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 1: what makes it fun. I mean, you're doing it to 749 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,360 Speaker 1: make your music sound the way you want it to sound, 750 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: and the camaraderie of being on the road with the 751 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 1: band and crew is one of the reasons I like 752 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: being on the road for fifty years now. You know, 753 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: if I wasn't on the tour bus and didn't get 754 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: to hang with my peeps, I would have hanged it 755 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: up a long time ago. So you're the opposite of 756 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: many people who, especially in the era of streaming, they 757 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,919 Speaker 1: go on the road. They don't want to. You look 758 00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: forward to it. Yeah, I make new records so I 759 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: can go on the road. I love the travel I 760 00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: love the traveling life. My dad loved it. I love 761 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: that he toured till he was eighty five. And I 762 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: have a friend who worked in the old film era 763 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 1: with led Zepp, and he says, I've been around the world. 764 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: I've seen nothing. Uh. When you when you travel these places, 765 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: do you take advantage of the cultural uh stuff there? Yeah. 766 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: Well we started when I um, right around the time 767 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: when Nick of Time came out. We started to drive 768 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,319 Speaker 1: at night on the bus so that we could have 769 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: the daytime so I could get some exercise and get 770 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: out and sight see and see my friends. I mean, 771 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: with COVID, I'm still getting outside and still doing yoga, 772 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: but I I see friends with a mask. We test 773 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: first and we're distance, you know, so I'm we're We've 774 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: been in a COVID bubble since January. But yeah, I 775 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: take advantage of it. On nights off, I try to 776 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 1: go to great You know, I have friends all over 777 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: the place that I've kept in touch with high school 778 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: and college and activist friends and former band members and 779 00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, so, uh, it's really fun to wake up 780 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: in a new city and tried it. But after all 781 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 1: these years of being in Pittsburgh many times I have 782 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: seen all the sites. But it doesn't mean that it's 783 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: any more less fun to ride bikes along the river. 784 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: And where are some of the places that really call 785 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,160 Speaker 1: you off guard that we're really very interesting to you? Well, 786 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: you know the obvious ones that I love, or Vancouver, Seattle, 787 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 1: and New Orleans, for example. Austin has an incredible music scene. 788 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,040 Speaker 1: I always try to come in a couple of days 789 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,800 Speaker 1: early so I can hang out. Um. I love every 790 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: section of this country. I mean, I'm I really they're 791 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: surprising things about southern New Jersey that is more rural 792 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 1: and beautiful. You know, when I used to play colleges 793 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: in the seventies, I was surprised to find out there 794 00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 1: was something between Trenton and New York City, which that 795 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,879 Speaker 1: industrial pollution kind of stuffed and thrilled me. But there's 796 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: little outlawing areas to most of the city's I mean 797 00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,959 Speaker 1: even on tour and outside of Rome forty five minutes, 798 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: if you have a day off, you can go all 799 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,479 Speaker 1: through all kinds of little villages and towns. And I'd 800 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: have to say that the fun part of the seventies 801 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,920 Speaker 1: was driving to all those colleges and seeing all those 802 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,880 Speaker 1: smaller roads than the ones we see now. And how 803 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: about the rest of the world outside the States, Outside 804 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 1: North America. I have never been to South America or 805 00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: Central America, or places like Tahiti or Bali. I would 806 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: love to go to Thailand. I've been to Japan, but 807 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: it's so expensive now and I'm not a big star 808 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 1: over there, so we probably can't go, and the rest 809 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,719 Speaker 1: of my life I probably won't ever get to go 810 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: there again. The U k Is my favorite place to tour, 811 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: and Holland has always been incredibly open for people like 812 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 1: Ray Cooter and Randy Newman, a little feet of myself 813 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: back in the seventies when America really didn't know who 814 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,479 Speaker 1: we were. There there was some reason there's a music 815 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,680 Speaker 1: scene there that really appreciated that range of you know 816 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: American artists where that you know, nexus of R and 817 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: B in Honky Talk and you know they were The 818 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,240 Speaker 1: people over in Europe don't care so much about putting 819 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: you in a box as America used to. But now 820 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: within the Americana format, we've got a comfortable home. So 821 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,160 Speaker 1: I love Scotland and Ireland, and I love New Zealand 822 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: and Australia. I will say I've been to South America 823 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: a couple of times. In the best place I've ever 824 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: been was Bogata. Everybody, everybody I hung with there had 825 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,319 Speaker 1: a family member who had been killed. Oh my, they 826 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: mean like gang violence. Yes, there was just Derek Gurr 827 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,239 Speaker 1: and there were certain places you couldn't go as also 828 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: there with you know, the manager of the original manager 829 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 1: of the Stones lives there, Andrew lou Goldham. So it's 830 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,440 Speaker 1: fascinating me with him because you know, there's certain places 831 00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,000 Speaker 1: they tell you not to go with him, and he 832 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,839 Speaker 1: knows they can see you being an American right off, 833 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:57,799 Speaker 1: and he knows how to push him away. It was 834 00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 1: just so did he why did he settle there? I 835 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,719 Speaker 1: just saw him on the Bert Burns movie, which was 836 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:07,000 Speaker 1: so great. They interviewed him for that. Well, you know, 837 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: he's very much alive. He married a woman from bo Guitar. 838 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,520 Speaker 1: It wasn't like a Nazi and they were going to 839 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: find out. Yeah, he also has a place of Vancouver 840 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: at this particular point which he goes back and forth, 841 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,360 Speaker 1: but he can tell you the real story on Stone stuff. 842 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,719 Speaker 1: Just utterly fascinating. Oh my gosh, have you seen that 843 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 1: new series that they did? Are you talking about the 844 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 1: new documentaries? Yeah, the new series on the Stones. I've 845 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: only seen the Charlie one, and I saw part of 846 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,319 Speaker 1: the Ronny one and when I got sleepy on the bus, 847 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: so I got to pick it up again. You know, 848 00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,399 Speaker 1: I have not seen them yet. Oh, everybody says there's 849 00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 1: great that when it gets just to television. You know, 850 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 1: I just watched the shined O'Connor documentary and then I 851 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: got started in the Credence one, and they're done so heavily, 852 00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,799 Speaker 1: but they draw you right in because remember, you know 853 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 1: the elite that I thought Lee Morrigan one, I know 854 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,480 Speaker 1: his family didn't love it, but the Oscar Peterson and 855 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,919 Speaker 1: Lee Morgan ones are fantastic. I mean there's so many 856 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,640 Speaker 1: I love. My favorite one I've ever seen that I 857 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: was so surprising was the Quiet one about Bill Wyman 858 00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: with all those homes. That fantastic. And what about his 859 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: collection of stuff and his building. What a guy. I 860 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: love him. Do you watch streaming television? And I do. 861 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,480 Speaker 1: I watch it because we're on the road, so we 862 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:36,000 Speaker 1: have nights off and after the show we can pair 863 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 1: our computer or our phone with the TV and the bus, 864 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 1: so as we're going down the road with COVID, there's 865 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,839 Speaker 1: no aftershow meet and greets, so I get to see 866 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:50,719 Speaker 1: all kinds of cool stuff. So what do you recommend? Oh? 867 00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: I loved um. Well, there's ones that I just you know, 868 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: things like Dead to me. I really liked. I loved 869 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: Ray Donovan. I was surprising because it's pretty violent, but 870 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: I really loved it. I loved Ted Lasso. I don't 871 00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,600 Speaker 1: have Apple TV, but my friend did and I made 872 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: me so happy. I love the Morning show that's also 873 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,760 Speaker 1: an Apple TV. And then tons of things from Britain. 874 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,879 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not a big crime murder mystery one. 875 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,320 Speaker 1: But the Grandchester guy, the guy who started the original 876 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,040 Speaker 1: Grandchester was very cute, so I used to I admit 877 00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: that I watched it because he was so handsome. Have 878 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 1: you seen Happy Valley? No, but that guy is in 879 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:32,600 Speaker 1: it right, A bad guy I saw. I watched a 880 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,399 Speaker 1: little bit of it, but it was upsetting to me. 881 00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:40,280 Speaker 1: That used to be my my number one recommendation. Although 882 00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,240 Speaker 1: I think it's not on Netflix anymore. It's on another service. 883 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: Have you watched Borgan? No, but I heard that's really good. 884 00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 1: I heard that's really good. Sometimes I'm in the mood 885 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: for something dark, but a lot of times I just 886 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: want escapist, anything British and from not not my time zone, 887 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:02,320 Speaker 1: I mean time period because during the election and George 888 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,879 Speaker 1: Floyd and I was just so so many of our 889 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,560 Speaker 1: friends passed away between cancer and a couple of suicides 890 00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:13,080 Speaker 1: and drug overdoses, but COVID too. There was just one 891 00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,319 Speaker 1: after the other every I was just devastating. So I 892 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: watched a lot of escapist and you know, um travel 893 00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 1: and Chef Chef's Table kind of things and travel and 894 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 1: nature films and a lot of stuff about dogs, soothing things. 895 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,800 Speaker 1: My girlfriend is hooked on the cooking shows. She doesn't cook, 896 00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,319 Speaker 1: but she's hooked on the shows. I don't cook that 897 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:39,520 Speaker 1: much either, but I like them too. If I have 898 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,000 Speaker 1: a half hour. They made me feel good. How about 899 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: the house redecorating and buying and selling into those two 900 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,880 Speaker 1: and I have not seen those and I don't do 901 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: the reality TV too much. You know that I have 902 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: not watched the House, you know, the kind of gossipy things. Yeah, 903 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 1: what about reading? I love to read. I'm reading both 904 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 1: John Winner and Barbara Dane's excellent biographies autobiographies right now. 905 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm going back and forth between the two. I love 906 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,000 Speaker 1: The Night Watchman Louise Erdic. My favorite book I've found 907 00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,319 Speaker 1: in my entire life is called This Is Happiness by 908 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 1: Nile Williams from Ireland. I'm I cannot recommend it more 909 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:24,200 Speaker 1: highly so. I mean, I admit that COVID was it 910 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,279 Speaker 1: hadn't gave me other choices. But I also read The 911 00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,239 Speaker 1: New Yorker, and I listened to a lot of podcasts 912 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,840 Speaker 1: and New Yorker fiction, and that you know, I do 913 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:38,400 Speaker 1: a lot of politics through my podcasts. Okay, let's go 914 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: back to the Yawn Winner book. I read the one 915 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:45,120 Speaker 1: that he asked that was supposed to be a autobiography, 916 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 1: and then he didn't like it. It was called sticky 917 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,759 Speaker 1: Fingers or something. This one I have, it gets such 918 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: a bad rap though, that he's constantly dropping names. What's 919 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: your experience and reading it? I was telling Jackson last 920 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: night when we were talking about it, and you know 921 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: the fact is that guy that is his life. He 922 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,400 Speaker 1: was friends with John Kennedy. You know, like it's okay, 923 00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, he gets he gets to do it. He 924 00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,160 Speaker 1: was really important in our culture and he really was 925 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,239 Speaker 1: friends with all these people. And it's fascinating to read. 926 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,120 Speaker 1: So he's a good writer, and I'm you know, I'm 927 00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,200 Speaker 1: glad that he wrote it, and I don't feel like 928 00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,920 Speaker 1: he's dropping names. But I'm also famous myself, so I 929 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:22,759 Speaker 1: don't know what it's like to be a civilian and 930 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,920 Speaker 1: read that and you're not really a civilian. You're in 931 00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,400 Speaker 1: the bizins well, I guess you. The other thing is, 932 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,880 Speaker 1: you know, Clive Davis the first book in the seventies 933 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,520 Speaker 1: was phenomenal. The second when I was about three quarters through, 934 00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,440 Speaker 1: when he's so busy burnishing his image. Oh yeah, you know, 935 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,560 Speaker 1: I didn't get that feeling from Yawn. But I mean 936 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,279 Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of vulnerable and open and 937 00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:47,400 Speaker 1: I appreciated it. But I never read hit Man was 938 00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 1: that great Walter Yetnikov hit Man yet Nikov wrote a 939 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 1: book that was okay, But Hitman the book phenomenal. That's 940 00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,400 Speaker 1: what I hear, that's what and I would it's the 941 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,719 Speaker 1: best book about the You know, it's an interesting thing 942 00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,720 Speaker 1: because you know the code of the road, you reveal 943 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:10,320 Speaker 1: certain stuff and you're out forever. So this guy, Frederick 944 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,400 Speaker 1: Danny wrote one book. That's it. No one's ever going 945 00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:17,799 Speaker 1: to talk to him again. I'm sorry, but I heard 946 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:24,040 Speaker 1: it was absolutely accurate. It absolutely was. I mean. One 947 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: of the strange things today is you remember when you 948 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,800 Speaker 1: were making those records for Warner Brothers, music was everything, 949 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,840 Speaker 1: and the people who ran the labels were god. I 950 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: usually related to the movie studios. You lived in l A. 951 00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,479 Speaker 1: You knew who ran the movie studios. Now nobody knows, 952 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,320 Speaker 1: nobody cares. It's a completely I had like seven presidents 953 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:47,800 Speaker 1: at the time I was at Capital, but you know 954 00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 1: what I mean, I made relationships with all their their staff, 955 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: and then their staff had relationship with radio and on 956 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 1: the road, and then and then by the time the 957 00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,600 Speaker 1: record came out, he'd been five aired and a whole 958 00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:02,680 Speaker 1: new team came in that I had no relationship with. So, 959 00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:05,600 Speaker 1: you know, it was that's why I went independent. I 960 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,560 Speaker 1: got my own, I started my own label. I just 961 00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,719 Speaker 1: got tired of the not having phone calls answered. You know, 962 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,200 Speaker 1: could you have stayed at the major label. No. I 963 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,719 Speaker 1: planned ten years in advance of starting Red Wing that 964 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,960 Speaker 1: I was going to go independent. I saw my I 965 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,400 Speaker 1: saw two or three friends, including John Prine, who had 966 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,440 Speaker 1: a great was the first person to do it. Um. 967 00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,880 Speaker 1: I just you know, if you have a staff that 968 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: is capable and super smart and willing to do the work, 969 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,360 Speaker 1: it was great to go independent. I started stockpiled my 970 00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: touring money and we I haven't looked back. Why is 971 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,680 Speaker 1: it called red Wing? Oh? Because I have like a 972 00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:49,120 Speaker 1: red shock of hair that goes like that. It's just 973 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,360 Speaker 1: like a wing of hair. It's not bangs. And I 974 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,400 Speaker 1: just sort of, I don't know. I just thought it 975 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 1: was cool. And the logo has a little white streak 976 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:00,080 Speaker 1: like my streak. And how many people are working for 977 00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: red Wing? Oh, it's just same my same office. It's 978 00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:06,920 Speaker 1: the Kathy Kins, my manager, Annie heller Gutwillig is my 979 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: um uh back up. Like social media, social activism, music, 980 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,520 Speaker 1: you know, all the kinds of everybody's wearing multiple hats. 981 00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:19,800 Speaker 1: So I've got three main women that are in the office, 982 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,840 Speaker 1: and then we have PR and distribution and promo and 983 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: people that advise us, you know, label kind of people 984 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: that advise us, and then we have a whole digital 985 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:32,480 Speaker 1: arm that we outsource, so everything is kind of outsourced 986 00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:36,440 Speaker 1: from our basic team of three women and me. You 987 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,719 Speaker 1: just to go back you were talking. You listen to 988 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:43,160 Speaker 1: political podcast? Which ones do you listen to? I listened 989 00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:47,800 Speaker 1: to Ezra Kleine and The Daily and uh, you know, 990 00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:52,800 Speaker 1: I pick and choose different things that I link on. 991 00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: You know, if I'm read the l A Times, in 992 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: the New York Times or the Guardian, you know, I 993 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: just try to surf all the different stories and get 994 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,040 Speaker 1: different points of view. I don't I should read more 995 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,800 Speaker 1: from the other side's point of view, but I I 996 00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,520 Speaker 1: just can't do it. Do you do? You do you 997 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,480 Speaker 1: make yourself read? I mean, if there was a George 998 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: Will that I admired, I might read at point of 999 00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:17,320 Speaker 1: view a little bit. I mean, there's some people that 1000 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 1: at the Times that are more conservative than me, but 1001 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't study what they're saying. It 1002 00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:29,080 Speaker 1: just makes me gag. Well, you know, when you're in 1003 00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 1: high school, information flows very quickly, and we're not in 1004 00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,920 Speaker 1: high school anymore. And even though everybody in our generation 1005 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: has an iPhone and says how digitally savvy they are, 1006 00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,960 Speaker 1: They really are not. You know, they're not on TikTok. 1007 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: So the question is how does one become isolated not 1008 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,880 Speaker 1: become isolated. In the seventies, when someone didn't know what 1009 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,160 Speaker 1: was going on, you roll your eyes. Now you know 1010 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people are out of the loop. So 1011 00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,879 Speaker 1: to tell you the truth, I get three physical newspapers 1012 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,600 Speaker 1: every day that I we from cover to cover because 1013 00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,240 Speaker 1: they tune me in. And then I got the Washington 1014 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: Post digitally. So as far as the Wall Street Journal 1015 00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,760 Speaker 1: editorial and opinion page, everybody knows those people are whacked. 1016 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: Even the people I know who are writing for the 1017 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, Brett Stevens. I you know who's the 1018 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,359 Speaker 1: right wing guy at the New York Times. I don't 1019 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,080 Speaker 1: always agree with them. I think you know you're gonna 1020 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:29,720 Speaker 1: get me on a rant. The New York Times sets 1021 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,160 Speaker 1: the agenda for America, if not the world, and the right, 1022 00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:39,400 Speaker 1: as they tend to do, has demonized the Times to 1023 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,240 Speaker 1: the point that it's become a pejorative. If you mentioned 1024 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,360 Speaker 1: the Time, oh no, that's that's the biased New York Times. 1025 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 1: But the right gets all their news from the New 1026 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:53,239 Speaker 1: York Times. If you turn you know, if you turn 1027 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,919 Speaker 1: on Fox, they're quoting the New York Times, they will 1028 00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:59,800 Speaker 1: disagree with it, but they don't have their own in 1029 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:06,719 Speaker 1: dependent news gathering service. So interesting, you know, it's really fascinating. 1030 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,680 Speaker 1: So when it comes to the other thing, you know, 1031 00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:14,520 Speaker 1: it's serious. In the car, you can listen to all 1032 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: the news stations, and I used to listen to Fox 1033 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,520 Speaker 1: on a regular basis just to find out what's going on, 1034 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:25,040 Speaker 1: But after the Shenanigans in the wake of the election, 1035 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:30,240 Speaker 1: very rarely, and I do go to the web page 1036 00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: just to see primarily their spin, whether they I mean, 1037 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,240 Speaker 1: I was, yeah, I know it's important as a social 1038 00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:43,080 Speaker 1: student of social how people are getting their information and 1039 00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,600 Speaker 1: social psychology and social you know, it's important to understand 1040 00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,000 Speaker 1: what's getting play, you know, in the culture. You know, 1041 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:54,359 Speaker 1: and wow, Well, the other thing is things are big 1042 00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:56,800 Speaker 1: news on the left. They don't even forget the spin. 1043 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:02,040 Speaker 1: They appear way way way down on the box. I mean, 1044 00:57:02,120 --> 00:57:04,160 Speaker 1: I love I love Amy Goodman. I listened to a 1045 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,799 Speaker 1: lot of public radio. I listen to BBC. I listened 1046 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,600 Speaker 1: to the PBS News Hour and BBC World News every day, 1047 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:12,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I try to poke around and then 1048 00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,719 Speaker 1: there's days when I just want to be off on 1049 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:18,120 Speaker 1: the woods and listen to an audio book. I don't 1050 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,640 Speaker 1: want to be dipping into politics because I get as 1051 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,680 Speaker 1: an activist, I'm a hit up for as I moved 1052 00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,320 Speaker 1: through the country, I'm I have choices for who to 1053 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:30,480 Speaker 1: have table at my concerts and which which candidates I 1054 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,080 Speaker 1: might want to send money to. So I have to 1055 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 1: stay on top of which nuclear plan is almost closed 1056 00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: and which one is having a toxic leak in this 1057 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: organization is you know, they need assistance and I and 1058 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,240 Speaker 1: I am the person to tie my tour proceeds, you know, 1059 00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:48,960 Speaker 1: we tie the whole bunch of my whatever profits I 1060 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,280 Speaker 1: make in my life to supporting the groups, like over 1061 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,120 Speaker 1: a hundred groups that that I am proud to support, 1062 00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:57,840 Speaker 1: but I have to make sure that they're still viable. 1063 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,080 Speaker 1: So there's enough homework involved with that where I just can't. 1064 00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:06,040 Speaker 1: I can't read the Washington Post and the l A. 1065 00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I poked through the l A Times in 1066 00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,920 Speaker 1: New York Times because they're my they're my peeps. I 1067 00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:13,760 Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, I should read the San Francisco Chronicle, 1068 00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:15,640 Speaker 1: but I just I don't have enough hours in the 1069 00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 1: day to follow everything. Well, you know, on Apple News 1070 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,400 Speaker 1: Plus you pay a dollar a month, and I only 1071 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:25,920 Speaker 1: my main motivation was New York Magazine was going to 1072 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,800 Speaker 1: a hundred dollars a year ago twenty forty, but a 1073 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,200 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year their issues with almost nothing in it, 1074 00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:35,080 Speaker 1: so I can read that. But it also has the 1075 00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:38,280 Speaker 1: San Francisco Chronicle, the Sacramento be good. Thank you for 1076 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,840 Speaker 1: telling me, because you know San Jose Mercury News is 1077 00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,320 Speaker 1: a great paper too. There's a lot of really good papers. Still, 1078 00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,320 Speaker 1: most of those are all if you pay the dollar, 1079 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,520 Speaker 1: they're in Apple News. If you get confused, just to 1080 00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:52,720 Speaker 1: have somebody email me. It's pretty simple. But this is 1081 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,840 Speaker 1: the This is I am now, and when I hang 1082 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 1: up with you, I'm gonna get Apple everything. Because my 1083 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,240 Speaker 1: keyboard players just told how much stuff is available on 1084 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:04,520 Speaker 1: Apple TV plus, and you know, I just go, I 1085 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,680 Speaker 1: can't take one more. Were not one more? I'm full, 1086 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: But I'm going to cancel something and put in Apple TV. Okay, 1087 00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,680 Speaker 1: I got Apple t for buying products. I got Apple 1088 00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:22,160 Speaker 1: TV from the outset onset until May. Then I heard 1089 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,480 Speaker 1: about a show and I paid the five dollars. I 1090 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,720 Speaker 1: didn't like the show, and there's an Apple has so 1091 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,520 Speaker 1: much of my money. I'm not complaining about that, but 1092 00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:34,320 Speaker 1: I canceled as a protest. Give me a number, give me, 1093 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,920 Speaker 1: I'll take all the services. Give me a number. But 1094 00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:39,920 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being packed to death by ducks. 1095 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I hear you. I know what you mean. 1096 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:46,760 Speaker 1: How about the new chargers? I mean, come on, do 1097 00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,440 Speaker 1: you think like you could get I heard they're gonna anyway. 1098 00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:52,919 Speaker 1: We're gonna sidetrack here. I don't want to side track 1099 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:54,800 Speaker 1: all you want to talk about the chargers? You know, 1100 00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it took me a long time even to 1101 00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: get a CD player. You know, I was at a 1102 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Blood Eye before I went to Area Codes. I kept 1103 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Quest three, you know, I kept the for a long 1104 01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:12,560 Speaker 1: ass time. But you know, Forest, that was our number, 1105 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,200 Speaker 1: oh five O five to eight. And you remember watching 1106 01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:18,080 Speaker 1: New York TV, which was the TV where I grew 1107 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 1: up in Connecticut, dial murray Hill. You know, it's just 1108 01:00:23,720 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 1: crazy Eddie And you guys had Zachary, didn't you. Oh 1109 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:30,560 Speaker 1: of course I remember when Zacharly, you know, was the 1110 01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:36,800 Speaker 1: Afternoon Kids show and w n W. You just couldn't 1111 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:46,400 Speaker 1: believe it that it was the same guy, You have 1112 01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:50,600 Speaker 1: never given up the faith. You have always supported clauses. 1113 01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:55,520 Speaker 1: If you pull the lens back. One can argue quite 1114 01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:00,200 Speaker 1: strongly that the Vietnam War was ended by protest by 1115 01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 1: the youth, and certainly all the musicians involved in muse 1116 01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: got the public to really have a bad feeling about 1117 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:16,120 Speaker 1: nuclear power. To what degree do you are you disillusioned 1118 01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:20,680 Speaker 1: or feel that the activist effort still makes a difference. 1119 01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: You know, there's a qualitative difference with Fox News and 1120 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,800 Speaker 1: what's happened in this country's delivery of information and the 1121 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:35,920 Speaker 1: center of investigative reporting and trusting in the center that 1122 01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:39,000 Speaker 1: there is a middle way with the CBS News and 1123 01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:44,439 Speaker 1: ABC News and nightly news on NBC. David Saskine, Charlie Rose. 1124 01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,440 Speaker 1: There used to be some discourse, whether it was crossfire 1125 01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 1: or you know, CNN. I mean, there was there was 1126 01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,360 Speaker 1: a center that you could kind of count on that 1127 01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:58,520 Speaker 1: was going to be sane. And since that has split 1128 01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:03,080 Speaker 1: to where are delusional and forty of the people in 1129 01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 1: this country believe or Republicans anyway that the election was stolen. 1130 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,360 Speaker 1: I don't know how to say. I don't know how 1131 01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,240 Speaker 1: to address that except to keep pushing for fair elections 1132 01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:19,040 Speaker 1: and free press and get as much of a cultural 1133 01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:26,080 Speaker 1: icons two remain neutral and baby somehow get some sort 1134 01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:30,560 Speaker 1: of coming together to hear both sides. I wish there 1135 01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,480 Speaker 1: was a way to get that debate where the other 1136 01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:34,800 Speaker 1: side would listen to us, and I would want to 1137 01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:36,920 Speaker 1: listen to the other side. So I don't I don't 1138 01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,000 Speaker 1: really know how to dismantle what's going on with democracy 1139 01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,840 Speaker 1: being threatened the way it is. It's it's just like 1140 01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,240 Speaker 1: it's nothing that I would have foreseen. I mean, racism. 1141 01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:49,960 Speaker 1: I understand that it's the lid is blown off on that, 1142 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,880 Speaker 1: the Me Too movement, you know they have and they 1143 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:58,480 Speaker 1: have not getting worse gentrification. Nobody can afford, you know, 1144 01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,960 Speaker 1: all of the policy international, But what's the lurch to 1145 01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,760 Speaker 1: the right and the rise of fascism in terms of 1146 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:09,120 Speaker 1: information and people belief systems. I just wasn't expecting. Did 1147 01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:14,360 Speaker 1: you see that coming? Not whatsoever? The Soviet Union fell 1148 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,800 Speaker 1: Obama one. It was supposed to be Democrats forever. I 1149 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:21,080 Speaker 1: can understand why it switched, but I did not see 1150 01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:23,320 Speaker 1: it forthcoming whatsoever. I mean, I got we got the 1151 01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,439 Speaker 1: Tea Party. I saw that, the moral majority, but that's 1152 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, that's just fighting. That means you get in 1153 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,320 Speaker 1: there and you have debates, and but what's going on 1154 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:33,800 Speaker 1: now where the people just all of those qn on 1155 01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:37,800 Speaker 1: people getting elected. It's it's not a country. I recognize. 1156 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,000 Speaker 1: I don't know how to dismantle it. So you have 1157 01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,560 Speaker 1: a lot of tour dates coming up in the South, 1158 01:03:44,280 --> 01:03:49,240 Speaker 1: which tends tends red. Yeah, are you conscious of saying 1159 01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 1: or not saying political things we're traveling. I travel with 1160 01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,520 Speaker 1: the Ukrainian flag resting against the drum riser and I 1161 01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,200 Speaker 1: make a comment about how we need to support for 1162 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:04,680 Speaker 1: a long time refugees and then refugees all over. But 1163 01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,400 Speaker 1: I did very much just encourage people to vote and 1164 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:12,120 Speaker 1: have local groups that are working on issues, sometimes environmentals, 1165 01:04:12,160 --> 01:04:17,920 Speaker 1: sometimes um, you know, specific to legislation that's on the docket. 1166 01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:19,960 Speaker 1: You know, I'll have people tabling, but I don't. I 1167 01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,280 Speaker 1: don't push it on people from the stage. I think 1168 01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:25,920 Speaker 1: they're there to hear a concert, so it's not a 1169 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,320 Speaker 1: benefit rally. But I just saw Jackson play a month 1170 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,720 Speaker 1: ago at the same place. I just played the Berkeley 1171 01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,200 Speaker 1: Greek Theater, and you know, his songs are fantastically topical 1172 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,440 Speaker 1: and timeless at the same time, and I don't. I 1173 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:43,480 Speaker 1: feel like it's I can pretty much assume that my audience, 1174 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:44,960 Speaker 1: even in the South, a lot of them will be 1175 01:04:45,680 --> 01:04:48,840 Speaker 1: in the same ballpark politically as I am. But I 1176 01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:51,560 Speaker 1: just think it's not the place for me to say stuff. 1177 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a I don't want to 1178 01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,040 Speaker 1: open up that discourse and social media, I don't. I 1179 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,800 Speaker 1: don't flare, I don't prick in my posts and stuff. 1180 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,160 Speaker 1: I don't prick people to come in and attack me. 1181 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:06,760 Speaker 1: I just can't. I can't stomach it. I just want 1182 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,120 Speaker 1: to keep my organization working, and keep my band and 1183 01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:13,760 Speaker 1: crew and my causes supported, and encourage people to get 1184 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:17,320 Speaker 1: along and take care of themselves and just leave, whether 1185 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,360 Speaker 1: they're masked or not, out of it. You know, I 1186 01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:22,280 Speaker 1: just I can't. I can't. I can only pick certain fights. 1187 01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:28,240 Speaker 1: But I have definitely never been one to proselytize on stage. Okay, 1188 01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:33,840 Speaker 1: going back to the war, the youth UH really opened 1189 01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,600 Speaker 1: people's eyes to what was going on in Vietnam, but 1190 01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 1: it was really pushed by the tribal drum, which was 1191 01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,200 Speaker 1: the music ye in the rallies and the marches and 1192 01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,200 Speaker 1: all that. So you know, I've been part of a 1193 01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:49,360 Speaker 1: bunch of marches and rallies and things. So anyway, I 1194 01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,720 Speaker 1: didn't let you ask your question. Well, you know, but 1195 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: you inspired me to a certain degree. Rallies don't work anymore. 1196 01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,120 Speaker 1: The world lives on law line. The reason I'm saying 1197 01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,240 Speaker 1: this is not in response to you. I wrote this. 1198 01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:09,360 Speaker 1: If we look at what happened during the UH Trump term, 1199 01:06:10,560 --> 01:06:14,880 Speaker 1: nothing that was other than the Floyd protests, which were worldwide. 1200 01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:17,640 Speaker 1: And what if you talk to black people during that, 1201 01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:19,840 Speaker 1: they say, it's just gonna return to what it was, 1202 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:23,360 Speaker 1: which to a great degree it has. But I think 1203 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:29,320 Speaker 1: these battles are fought online, and I think young Democrats 1204 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:32,480 Speaker 1: are left leading people a completely disillusion because other than 1205 01:06:32,560 --> 01:06:36,840 Speaker 1: AOC who's talking to them, it's these old, wimpy people. 1206 01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,000 Speaker 1: And then you have a lot of people who don't 1207 01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 1: understand the modern paradigm. I mean, this is sort of 1208 01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,720 Speaker 1: there's a couple of questions here. But you certainly are 1209 01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:51,240 Speaker 1: aware of the old routine. You make an album, the 1210 01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,520 Speaker 1: record company pushes it, they push it to radio, there's 1211 01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:59,280 Speaker 1: publicity everywhere. Pretty much everybody's interested knows that you have 1212 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,360 Speaker 1: a new project. They may or may not like it, 1213 01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,560 Speaker 1: may or may not buy a ticket today. It's like 1214 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,760 Speaker 1: a three falls in the forest. I don't care who 1215 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,560 Speaker 1: you are. Beyonce came out with a new album, press 1216 01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,400 Speaker 1: was everywhere within three days. A lot of the tracks 1217 01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,800 Speaker 1: fell off the Spotify chart, which is where the most 1218 01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:20,080 Speaker 1: consumption is. So how do you cope you're the same? 1219 01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's like that Joe Waltz song, Everybody's you know, 1220 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:26,280 Speaker 1: you're still the same. Everybody's changed. But can you just 1221 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:28,920 Speaker 1: say I'm in my own bubble and doing these things. 1222 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,200 Speaker 1: A lot of your contemporaries don't make new music at all. Well, 1223 01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean I I've done over fifty interviews for this album, 1224 01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,800 Speaker 1: and I'm um a lot of TV. We managed to 1225 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,960 Speaker 1: stay number ten, me number one for ten weeks on 1226 01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:46,720 Speaker 1: the American IT chart. The album and the single was 1227 01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:50,000 Speaker 1: even longer at number one on the Americana charts. So 1228 01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I have had a response that I haven't 1229 01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,360 Speaker 1: had in years to this record, and part of it 1230 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:58,320 Speaker 1: is because I just worked my ass off, you know, 1231 01:07:58,480 --> 01:08:01,320 Speaker 1: promoting it, and also because you know, people luckily it 1232 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,560 Speaker 1: got some good reviews and some good attention. But what 1233 01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:07,000 Speaker 1: do I expect the sales? I don't I mean, I 1234 01:08:07,080 --> 01:08:09,280 Speaker 1: don't think you make I only make my living on 1235 01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,200 Speaker 1: the road, really, and not everybody can do that. I'm established, 1236 01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:15,680 Speaker 1: and I know how rare it is to be able 1237 01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,439 Speaker 1: to get away with what I get away with in 1238 01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,640 Speaker 1: terms of being able to financially support two trucks and 1239 01:08:21,760 --> 01:08:25,599 Speaker 1: two busses and sound and lights, and you know, it's 1240 01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,360 Speaker 1: it's out of the realm of most of my friends 1241 01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,000 Speaker 1: who are in their thirties, forties and fifties. They can't 1242 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,640 Speaker 1: even tour. I mean, forget COVID. A lot of the 1243 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:36,920 Speaker 1: clubs are closed. Who's I mean, where are they going 1244 01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,360 Speaker 1: to tour? You know? Do do people that are sixty 1245 01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:44,280 Speaker 1: five go out anymore? No? I've in complete agreement with 1246 01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:48,200 Speaker 1: you on the new album. You wrote or co wrote 1247 01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:52,280 Speaker 1: four songs, you know, one of the my favorite songs 1248 01:08:52,360 --> 01:08:56,280 Speaker 1: years ever you wrote nothing seems to matter from give it, 1249 01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:01,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, and I was unhappy that you did not 1250 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,080 Speaker 1: continue to write as much. But now in the recent 1251 01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,760 Speaker 1: years you've written more. How does that come about? Well, 1252 01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, in terms of you writing personally in the seventies, 1253 01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: I just I made six albums in seven years and 1254 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:16,960 Speaker 1: was on the road the whole time. So I just 1255 01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,360 Speaker 1: didn't have the privacy or the ability to write. You know, 1256 01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,280 Speaker 1: that was literally on the road the whole time, um 1257 01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,120 Speaker 1: nick of Time, waiting to do Nick of Time. I 1258 01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,320 Speaker 1: had a little bit more time between eighties six and 1259 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:33,280 Speaker 1: when I made the record a couple of years later, 1260 01:09:33,560 --> 01:09:37,720 Speaker 1: and uh, I wanted to write something about what it 1261 01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:39,960 Speaker 1: was like to be thirty nine, and I wrote nick 1262 01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:42,760 Speaker 1: of Time and the Roads my middle name, and and 1263 01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:46,160 Speaker 1: then I had more the luxury of having more time 1264 01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,160 Speaker 1: off in between tours, and that you have to have 1265 01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:52,640 Speaker 1: time off to write songs. So I don't have a 1266 01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,560 Speaker 1: great attachment to having my own songs have to be 1267 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,320 Speaker 1: on the record. But if I really feel like I 1268 01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,320 Speaker 1: want to tell a story or say something, or I 1269 01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:04,479 Speaker 1: have a musical groove that I need to put on 1270 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,920 Speaker 1: the record, I will write a song on assignment. And 1271 01:10:08,040 --> 01:10:11,759 Speaker 1: that's kind of what happened with The two acoustic ballads 1272 01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:16,640 Speaker 1: were really entirely UM inspired because I didn't want to 1273 01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:18,960 Speaker 1: write about my personal life. I had already written on 1274 01:10:19,240 --> 01:10:21,519 Speaker 1: every aspect of my personal life, and I wanted to 1275 01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,720 Speaker 1: write a story song inspired by John Prins Angel from Montgomery. 1276 01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:30,040 Speaker 1: You know, so I love the idea, I love the 1277 01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:32,559 Speaker 1: idea of taking someone else's story and writing a song 1278 01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,200 Speaker 1: about it from the point of view of the person 1279 01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:39,360 Speaker 1: in it. I love short stories, but um, you do 1280 01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:43,280 Speaker 1: it as an assignment, as opposed to well, let's just say, 1281 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,360 Speaker 1: when I get off the road finally, then I have 1282 01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:50,080 Speaker 1: time to write songs for a record and compile songs 1283 01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:52,360 Speaker 1: for a record. But on the on the road, I'm 1284 01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:54,640 Speaker 1: just too busy. I don't know how people do it, 1285 01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,560 Speaker 1: but there's people that keep writing all the time. That 1286 01:10:57,640 --> 01:11:02,000 Speaker 1: would not be me. But I really appreciate nothing that 1287 01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,840 Speaker 1: you like. Nothing seems to matter. It's literally aside from 1288 01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,679 Speaker 1: the There's one song on my first album, my first 1289 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:10,280 Speaker 1: ever song called thank You, but that was my first 1290 01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:13,720 Speaker 1: real song. Nothing seems to matter, and I stopped doing 1291 01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,599 Speaker 1: it in the eighties, but my new guitar player really 1292 01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:18,840 Speaker 1: wants me to do it, so I might whip it out. 1293 01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,720 Speaker 1: If you're into short stories, I got one recommendation. If 1294 01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:28,519 Speaker 1: you read Curtis sitting Felds, you think it, I'll say it. No. 1295 01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:33,080 Speaker 1: She's written a number of famous books. You see her 1296 01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:35,120 Speaker 1: in the New York or on a regular basis. When 1297 01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:39,519 Speaker 1: it comes to short stories, it is by far my 1298 01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,000 Speaker 1: favorite short story book. You know a lot of short stories. 1299 01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,880 Speaker 1: When you go from story to story, it's jarring. Yeah, 1300 01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:50,720 Speaker 1: this book, and it's so real. So right, I'm right 1301 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,719 Speaker 1: right after this, I'm going to look it up. Curtis 1302 01:11:53,760 --> 01:11:56,840 Speaker 1: sitting Felments. That's a woman. You think it, I'll say it. 1303 01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,640 Speaker 1: So you worked with all these different producers. You know, 1304 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,160 Speaker 1: you work with bless famous people. Then you work with 1305 01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,479 Speaker 1: Paul Rothchild who came up in the folk era, but 1306 01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,519 Speaker 1: really I knew Paul was more of a control guy 1307 01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:11,000 Speaker 1: doing it his way than you work with Don was. 1308 01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:14,240 Speaker 1: Now you're doing it yourself. What you learn about all 1309 01:12:14,320 --> 01:12:18,400 Speaker 1: those producers in the process, Oh, I learned something from 1310 01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,160 Speaker 1: each one of them, you know, like the engineer too, 1311 01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,360 Speaker 1: because it's the team of the how the record sounds 1312 01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:26,760 Speaker 1: and how they mike the musicians. So I learned as 1313 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:28,880 Speaker 1: much from the musicians that we picked to play on 1314 01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,439 Speaker 1: the songs and the engineer and how he's making the 1315 01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,080 Speaker 1: drums and how I picked the team that I want 1316 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,679 Speaker 1: to work with. Is what who has been making records 1317 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,360 Speaker 1: that I really like, Like Mitchell Freuman, Chad Blake made Keiko, 1318 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,880 Speaker 1: and they made those Richard Thompson records that I love 1319 01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,639 Speaker 1: and after the four with Ed and Don, I said, 1320 01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,600 Speaker 1: I think I want to go play in their sandbox 1321 01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:52,080 Speaker 1: for a while because I love what Chad Blake does. 1322 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:55,760 Speaker 1: So I learned, you know, as a I'm not a 1323 01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:59,439 Speaker 1: technical geek, but I love to learn about where people 1324 01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,479 Speaker 1: put mys and what kind of mikes they use on 1325 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:04,800 Speaker 1: which instruments. And my my philosophy is to get the 1326 01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,040 Speaker 1: right musicians in the room and that you already like 1327 01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:09,920 Speaker 1: the way their drum kits sounds, and you already like 1328 01:13:10,040 --> 01:13:13,160 Speaker 1: this guy's guitars and his amps, and then just mike 1329 01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:16,759 Speaker 1: everything so that you get an accurate sound of those 1330 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:19,200 Speaker 1: people that you chose to put in there. You don't 1331 01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:22,040 Speaker 1: fix it later, you know, get the right people and 1332 01:13:22,120 --> 01:13:25,240 Speaker 1: then turn the mic on, sing live, play live, and 1333 01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:28,680 Speaker 1: fix as little as possible. And that's my choice. You know. 1334 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,519 Speaker 1: Paul Rothschild was the opposite. He did tons of comping 1335 01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,479 Speaker 1: and it was a whole different stylar recording. I after 1336 01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,240 Speaker 1: those two records, I said, that's it. I'm going back 1337 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,200 Speaker 1: to live recording. I mean, I want to just make 1338 01:13:40,280 --> 01:13:43,360 Speaker 1: live records. Turn the damn tape on, and if you know, 1339 01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,920 Speaker 1: maybe between two takes, you go between the third verse 1340 01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:48,880 Speaker 1: of the second take, or maybe the solo from the 1341 01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:52,080 Speaker 1: first one. But I'm just not a studio person that 1342 01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,360 Speaker 1: does fifteen twenty takes of things. So you're one of 1343 01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,519 Speaker 1: the rear people who have a leader album that I 1344 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,320 Speaker 1: believe is just as good as one of the earlier albums. 1345 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:04,679 Speaker 1: For a long time, Give It Up was my favorite, 1346 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,400 Speaker 1: but Luck of the Draw is different but just as good. 1347 01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:12,360 Speaker 1: So much, and I have really appreciated all the wonderful 1348 01:14:12,439 --> 01:14:16,439 Speaker 1: things that you have said about those songs. I mean, 1349 01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,439 Speaker 1: Michael O'Keeffe and loves one part B My Lover, that 1350 01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:22,599 Speaker 1: you what you went off on that, and Ed Sheerney 1351 01:14:22,600 --> 01:14:24,360 Speaker 1: and I talked about how much we love what you 1352 01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,760 Speaker 1: wrote about Luck of the Draw, and Paul brady Is 1353 01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,080 Speaker 1: and I have been in comming every time you showcase 1354 01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,920 Speaker 1: that record. We are all delighted. So thank you so much. 1355 01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:34,800 Speaker 1: That's how I found out about you, as you wrote. 1356 01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:38,360 Speaker 1: Someone sent me your early piece about I think it 1357 01:14:38,479 --> 01:14:42,120 Speaker 1: was one part B My Lover. Yeah it was and 1358 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,439 Speaker 1: still phenomenal. But you know, ed great guy. To what 1359 01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:51,120 Speaker 1: degree did he influence you? You? Oh? God, I mean, 1360 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,240 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had as much fun in 1361 01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:57,200 Speaker 1: the studio as those records were because of Ed. His personality, 1362 01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,200 Speaker 1: you know him. I mean, he was just a big 1363 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,880 Speaker 1: old teddy. He was hilarious, he was funny, he was 1364 01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:05,600 Speaker 1: a genius. And Don was that the chemistry between the 1365 01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:08,200 Speaker 1: three of us was just epic. It was we love 1366 01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:10,559 Speaker 1: each other so much. I just had lunch with Don 1367 01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:14,000 Speaker 1: the other day and I our love is so true 1368 01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:19,320 Speaker 1: and so deep, and our musical taste is so mutually respected. 1369 01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,400 Speaker 1: We we love each other's aesthetic. So Ed was just 1370 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,679 Speaker 1: you know, as professional as he was a good time. 1371 01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that he passed. You know, he was 1372 01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:36,479 Speaker 1: a terrible loss, terrible, terrible. But did you you talk 1373 01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:40,679 Speaker 1: about learning from engineers? Did you learn from Ed? Oh? Yeah? 1374 01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:43,680 Speaker 1: You know. The Luck of the Draw is that is 1375 01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:48,280 Speaker 1: the album that many sound companies tune their live you know, 1376 01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,519 Speaker 1: speakers to when they're out in the house and they're 1377 01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:54,519 Speaker 1: they're getting sounds before the band comes up for sound check. Many, 1378 01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,479 Speaker 1: many people have said, we use Luck of the Draw 1379 01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:00,240 Speaker 1: as the gold stone standard, you know, And you know, 1380 01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,400 Speaker 1: I love engineering. I love to listen to what he's doing, 1381 01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,640 Speaker 1: and I love I had a lot to do with 1382 01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,000 Speaker 1: how my it's my taste that mixed the record as 1383 01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:12,200 Speaker 1: much as his capability, because it's just a quite Some 1384 01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:15,519 Speaker 1: people like a lot of reverbs. Some people like, you know, 1385 01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:19,200 Speaker 1: live sounding drums. Some people it's really my taste. So 1386 01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:22,680 Speaker 1: I picked I picked Ed Don didn't know Ed, but 1387 01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:25,400 Speaker 1: I loved Ed's work with Ry Cooter on Get Rhythm, 1388 01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:27,880 Speaker 1: and I said, We've got to meet this guy that 1389 01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:31,559 Speaker 1: did David Linley's El Rao X and Ry Couters Get Rhythm, 1390 01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,439 Speaker 1: and we had lunch with him, and that was it 1391 01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:37,280 Speaker 1: that three of us were born. I didn't know that story. 1392 01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:41,920 Speaker 1: How did you meet Paul Brady? My bass player Hu 1393 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:45,920 Speaker 1: Hudginson turned me onto his solo albums, which I had 1394 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,880 Speaker 1: only known his traditional stuff, and I think they even 1395 01:16:48,960 --> 01:16:51,240 Speaker 1: opened for me at Toughs University years ago when he 1396 01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:55,919 Speaker 1: was with the Johnson's or Um. But I was flipped 1397 01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:59,040 Speaker 1: out when I heard his first couple of solo albums 1398 01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:02,880 Speaker 1: and just became such a huge fan of his. He's 1399 01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:04,840 Speaker 1: one of the greatest that you know, up there with 1400 01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:09,360 Speaker 1: Paul Simon, I think. And you know, when you have 1401 01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:12,280 Speaker 1: an album that you love, your favorite changes and one 1402 01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:14,479 Speaker 1: part B My Lover was always my favorite, but now 1403 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,599 Speaker 1: the song Luck of the Draws my favorite. I loved 1404 01:17:17,640 --> 01:17:20,280 Speaker 1: what you wrote about that too. We were so delighted 1405 01:17:20,360 --> 01:17:22,599 Speaker 1: because you know, you make those you make those records 1406 01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:25,720 Speaker 1: real for people. That was thirty years ago. You know, 1407 01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:29,200 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe that that that album, you know, 1408 01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:31,840 Speaker 1: I mean, there's my my fans know those songs, but 1409 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,320 Speaker 1: you gave it new life. And I think Luck of 1410 01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,960 Speaker 1: the Draws for all the reasons you illuminated. I think 1411 01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:42,720 Speaker 1: it's exactly that brilliant. And he's got a new autobiography 1412 01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:45,320 Speaker 1: that is waiting at one my dining room table. That's 1413 01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,880 Speaker 1: they just shipped up. Wow, he hasn't reached out yet, 1414 01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,560 Speaker 1: but I'll put my radar on that. Yeah, he just 1415 01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:53,280 Speaker 1: I think it just came. I don't even think it's 1416 01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,519 Speaker 1: out yet. Yeah, that's how you know, they shipped the 1417 01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:02,200 Speaker 1: book business. That's a slow, antiquated business. So how did 1418 01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,559 Speaker 1: you end up on Capitol? Danny Goldberg and Ron Stone 1419 01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:10,320 Speaker 1: were working with me and my lawyer, Natt Weiss. We're 1420 01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:12,640 Speaker 1: all working as a team and seeing what, you know, 1421 01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,280 Speaker 1: who who felt like the right change. And Joe Smith 1422 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,879 Speaker 1: moved over to Capitol and he signed me to Warners 1423 01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,679 Speaker 1: in in UH one and you know, he and Danny 1424 01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,360 Speaker 1: and Nat and everybody sat down and they said, well, 1425 01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:28,320 Speaker 1: we're you know, we don't think she's gonna sell a lot, 1426 01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, give her a really low budget and I 1427 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,920 Speaker 1: think I think was a d twenty five thousand dollars 1428 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:36,200 Speaker 1: and I had to make the record out of that, 1429 01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:40,360 Speaker 1: no signing advance. And I said, sure again if I 1430 01:18:40,560 --> 01:18:42,640 Speaker 1: if I can have artistic control and you don't try 1431 01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:45,000 Speaker 1: to tell me what to record or what to look like, 1432 01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,560 Speaker 1: or you know, get in the studio and tell me 1433 01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:59,080 Speaker 1: how to sound. And Joe understood that. Okay, Needless to say, 1434 01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, it hadn't ended well with Warner Brothers. Your 1435 01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,519 Speaker 1: first album is this amazing success in a different era 1436 01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:10,919 Speaker 1: when if you have success it maintains all those Grammys 1437 01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:14,320 Speaker 1: cause sales forever. What was it like for you being 1438 01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:18,360 Speaker 1: in the center of that, Maelstrom? Absolutely fantastic. I mean 1439 01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:23,879 Speaker 1: even before the nominations, the record had sold a million copies, 1440 01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:26,439 Speaker 1: and I did like two hours of press a day, 1441 01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:28,400 Speaker 1: even on the road a lot, like three or four 1442 01:19:28,520 --> 01:19:32,320 Speaker 1: the days a week. I just hammered, hammered, hammered. You know, 1443 01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,760 Speaker 1: the new label was very excited to prove that they 1444 01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:38,719 Speaker 1: could do a better job with me, and the critics 1445 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:41,400 Speaker 1: really liked the album. I got like a half page 1446 01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,160 Speaker 1: in the New York Times or the Newsweek or something 1447 01:19:44,200 --> 01:19:46,760 Speaker 1: about how unusual Nick of Time was as a song. 1448 01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,479 Speaker 1: It was just kiss met, you know, a bunch of things. 1449 01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,280 Speaker 1: VH one started and they I asked Dennis Quaid to 1450 01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:55,240 Speaker 1: start in the video with me so I could be 1451 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,640 Speaker 1: sexy without taking my clothes off, and at forty and 1452 01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:01,040 Speaker 1: and he flirted with me in the video for thing 1453 01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:03,519 Speaker 1: called Love, so that got on the TV because he's 1454 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,280 Speaker 1: a big star. And you know Triple A radio. I mean, 1455 01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:09,679 Speaker 1: at that point, it was a A O R radio, 1456 01:20:10,320 --> 01:20:13,120 Speaker 1: college radio. There was all these formats that weren't around 1457 01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:15,519 Speaker 1: five years before. If Nick of Time had come out 1458 01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,840 Speaker 1: in eighty five, it wouldn't have been a hit. So 1459 01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,680 Speaker 1: it was just all the stars lined up. So I 1460 01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:24,320 Speaker 1: was already completely thrilled that the tour did so well 1461 01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:26,639 Speaker 1: and all the reviews came in and it sold so well. 1462 01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:29,800 Speaker 1: But then I got the nomination for an Album of 1463 01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:31,760 Speaker 1: the Year and those three other ones, and I just 1464 01:20:31,800 --> 01:20:35,479 Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. So nobody expected me to win, So 1465 01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:39,880 Speaker 1: it was literally like unreal Cinderella Story. And I not 1466 01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,120 Speaker 1: only that, but I got to move to Northern California, 1467 01:20:42,160 --> 01:20:45,599 Speaker 1: where I always wanted to live. So I can't even 1468 01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:48,920 Speaker 1: think of anybody whose life was changed more by winning 1469 01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,000 Speaker 1: awards ever than what I got with Nick of Time. 1470 01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:56,240 Speaker 1: You mean moving to Northern California just be from l A. 1471 01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:58,639 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I got to have Ricky Fittar 1472 01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,600 Speaker 1: in my band and pay play a different level of 1473 01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:04,639 Speaker 1: musicians come on the road with me. You know, played 1474 01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:08,000 Speaker 1: at twenty thou people sometimes go to European the Nelson 1475 01:21:08,080 --> 01:21:11,200 Speaker 1: Mandela release at Wembley Stadium. You know, I was like 1476 01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:14,680 Speaker 1: invited to all the cool stuff and I could go 1477 01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:16,840 Speaker 1: on TV and talk about all my causes and the 1478 01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,839 Speaker 1: rhythm and blues foundation, so on every single level personally, 1479 01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:24,599 Speaker 1: you know. Sobriety was a huge break in my life, 1480 01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,320 Speaker 1: and then Nick of Time doing that well was just 1481 01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:31,959 Speaker 1: change life changing and still I'm still reaping the benefits 1482 01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:35,200 Speaker 1: of it. Okay, Needle say, I like, look, I think 1483 01:21:35,280 --> 01:21:37,639 Speaker 1: Luck of the Draws even better album than Nick of Time. 1484 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:39,800 Speaker 1: Not that Nick of Time isn't great, I know, I 1485 01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:41,680 Speaker 1: I would agree with you. I think Luck of the 1486 01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:45,800 Speaker 1: Draws really good. Thank you. What was it like having that? 1487 01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:49,479 Speaker 1: What pressure to do feel with a follow up? I 1488 01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,880 Speaker 1: didn't even think about it. I just got the best 1489 01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:54,880 Speaker 1: songs I could. You know, I'm used to not selling, 1490 01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, I was. I was happy that I got 1491 01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,280 Speaker 1: that moment in the sunshine there. I wasn't expecting another shot. 1492 01:22:00,840 --> 01:22:02,680 Speaker 1: And then when the record did even better, it was 1493 01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:07,559 Speaker 1: completely a thrill. Yeah, it was great. And going back 1494 01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,760 Speaker 1: to nick of Time, talk about turning for to your 1495 01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,960 Speaker 1: friends are having babies, any regrets that you didn't have 1496 01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:17,640 Speaker 1: children or live the life to a degree these other 1497 01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:20,960 Speaker 1: people did. Absolutely not. I was not cut out for 1498 01:22:21,040 --> 01:22:25,720 Speaker 1: the wife and mother thing, and um, I have too 1499 01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:27,960 Speaker 1: much respect for motherhood to do it in a half 1500 01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:30,240 Speaker 1: past way. You know, my dad was gone a lot, 1501 01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:33,000 Speaker 1: and I would you know, if I had a wife, 1502 01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:34,600 Speaker 1: I might have had a kid. But I just I 1503 01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:36,960 Speaker 1: just didn't feel the call. I wanted to be the 1504 01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,360 Speaker 1: captain of my own ship and only be responsible for 1505 01:22:40,280 --> 01:22:44,200 Speaker 1: my life, and so I was really very much focused 1506 01:22:44,240 --> 01:22:46,960 Speaker 1: on shepherding the older generation of R and B and 1507 01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:51,480 Speaker 1: blues artists. That's where my children were was getting attention 1508 01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:55,280 Speaker 1: and royalty reform and support for the great generation that 1509 01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,559 Speaker 1: was responsible for all of us being where we are today, 1510 01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:01,200 Speaker 1: and you and I speaking, and Ruth Brown and Charles 1511 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:04,760 Speaker 1: Brown and the Coasters and the Drifters and Sam and 1512 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,200 Speaker 1: Dave and the Temptations. Never participated in any royalties. So 1513 01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:13,840 Speaker 1: that was my that was my mission, not having kids. Now, 1514 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:16,640 Speaker 1: you did get married once, and as we've established, you 1515 01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,439 Speaker 1: certainly have a history of romances. Was that one and done? 1516 01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:27,680 Speaker 1: Would you get married again? You know? I mean we decided, 1517 01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:31,240 Speaker 1: you know, at our age that Michael and I were at, 1518 01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:32,880 Speaker 1: we said, you know, if we were still together in 1519 01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:34,360 Speaker 1: a year and a half, let's just give it a 1520 01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:37,479 Speaker 1: get let's just make a commitment. And you know, it's 1521 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:40,000 Speaker 1: something I'd never done. And I said, you know, he's Catholic, 1522 01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:43,439 Speaker 1: and I was going, okay, let's do it. And we 1523 01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,720 Speaker 1: had a Buddhist, Catholic, Quaker ceremony, and um, you know, 1524 01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:50,519 Speaker 1: our lives just we were fine for a while, but 1525 01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:53,840 Speaker 1: our careers just took us in two separate places and 1526 01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,080 Speaker 1: we just we just couldn't find enough continuity in the 1527 01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,360 Speaker 1: relationship to work on the stuff we needed to work on. 1528 01:24:00,120 --> 01:24:02,840 Speaker 1: We parted as friends, and you know, he's he's remarried 1529 01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:06,040 Speaker 1: and has a kid. And he's very happy, and I'm 1530 01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:08,479 Speaker 1: happy to be living out here. And I got my 1531 01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:12,519 Speaker 1: situation really great too, So it was fine for a while. 1532 01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:15,280 Speaker 1: As all the relationships have been, I don't I don't 1533 01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:18,439 Speaker 1: regret any of them. Let's just go back to what 1534 01:24:18,600 --> 01:24:21,519 Speaker 1: you were talking about, Dick Waterman and touring the South 1535 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,040 Speaker 1: and going on tour with the Stones. So you go 1536 01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:29,679 Speaker 1: to Harvard, how do you ultimately get involved in the scene, 1537 01:24:30,160 --> 01:24:31,720 Speaker 1: and how does it end up that you go with 1538 01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:36,040 Speaker 1: Dick through the South, never mind to Europe um a 1539 01:24:36,240 --> 01:24:40,960 Speaker 1: small uh, let's what do you call an anecdote to 1540 01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:44,559 Speaker 1: Jimpsen Theaters in New York is run by Jack Vertell, 1541 01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:49,120 Speaker 1: who was my classmate at Harvard, another blues crazy, crazy 1542 01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:52,559 Speaker 1: for the blues guy. We're really good friends. He calls 1543 01:24:52,640 --> 01:24:55,680 Speaker 1: me up and says, I just listened to Sunhouse on 1544 01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,640 Speaker 1: our friend David Guessner on a HRB blues show on 1545 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:04,040 Speaker 1: harve A radio station. Dick Waterman, who rediscovered Sunhouse, lives 1546 01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,479 Speaker 1: in Cambridge. Son is at Dick's house. We can go 1547 01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,240 Speaker 1: and meet sun House and so he called me and 1548 01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,320 Speaker 1: we went over and met him and my life changed 1549 01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:18,920 Speaker 1: that day. Okay, you know that you ever read the 1550 01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:22,760 Speaker 1: book White Bicycles that talks all about that what's his name? 1551 01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:27,679 Speaker 1: The record? No, no, it was the record producer. What's 1552 01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:31,400 Speaker 1: his name? I'll look it up while we're talking. But um, 1553 01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,120 Speaker 1: but White Bicycles. What a title, right? But it literally says, 1554 01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:39,559 Speaker 1: you know, these people were at Harvard the epicenter in Cambridge, 1555 01:25:39,640 --> 01:25:42,200 Speaker 1: and they said, all these blues guys, their numbers were 1556 01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:44,559 Speaker 1: in the phone book and a lot of them working 1557 01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:48,240 Speaker 1: straight jobs. And they called, we'll come play Cambridge and 1558 01:25:48,360 --> 01:25:51,080 Speaker 1: they did you know these white kids invited them? And 1559 01:25:51,720 --> 01:25:55,439 Speaker 1: how did you end up taking time off and touring 1560 01:25:55,520 --> 01:26:00,280 Speaker 1: the South? Oh? I well, I mean I took a 1561 01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:02,760 Speaker 1: semester off because Dick and I were involved, and I 1562 01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,559 Speaker 1: also wanted to hang out with all the blues guys 1563 01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:08,120 Speaker 1: that came through his place. He moved The club forty 1564 01:26:08,160 --> 01:26:10,400 Speaker 1: seven closed in the spring of my freshman year, and 1565 01:26:10,439 --> 01:26:14,080 Speaker 1: sixty eight Dick moved to Philadelphia, where he was the 1566 01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:16,760 Speaker 1: the blues guys would come on the way to their 1567 01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:19,559 Speaker 1: gigs that he booked. He had avalon productions. He had 1568 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,240 Speaker 1: all the blues guys under one to be able to 1569 01:26:22,360 --> 01:26:25,280 Speaker 1: collectively bargain with the club owners and get them better pay, 1570 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,960 Speaker 1: because the club owners would go, why should I pay 1571 01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:30,639 Speaker 1: eight hundred for book of White when I can get 1572 01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:34,320 Speaker 1: Mississippi Genre for five? And Dick said, that's not right, 1573 01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:37,400 Speaker 1: you know. So he kept them and working at the 1574 01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:40,040 Speaker 1: right amount of time, with the right hours of driving 1575 01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:43,479 Speaker 1: in between gigs, not working them to death, giving them 1576 01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:45,720 Speaker 1: the respect and the fee that they deserved. And I 1577 01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:48,560 Speaker 1: thought Dick was great for doing it. And so I 1578 01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:53,080 Speaker 1: took a semester off and started playing in the northeast. 1579 01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:54,920 Speaker 1: He put me on some shows, and I went back 1580 01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:58,479 Speaker 1: to school for the rest of my junior my sophomore year, 1581 01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:01,680 Speaker 1: and uh just started. Then I made a record and 1582 01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,920 Speaker 1: next thing I knew, I was on tour plane folk clubs, 1583 01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,519 Speaker 1: mostly on both coasts. I didn't really tour the South 1584 01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:11,160 Speaker 1: until I open with Jackson Brown my first national tour 1585 01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:16,200 Speaker 1: in seventy four. And the author of White Bicycles is 1586 01:27:16,280 --> 01:27:20,040 Speaker 1: the record producer Joe boyd Oh. I know, Joe, yeah right, 1587 01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:25,439 Speaker 1: But I mean maybe Gary Davis. Reverend Gary Davis might 1588 01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:26,680 Speaker 1: have been in the phone book, but the rest of 1589 01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:29,439 Speaker 1: the blues guys didn't live anywhere near the East coast. 1590 01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:32,439 Speaker 1: As I said it, didn't read the book recently, So 1591 01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:34,519 Speaker 1: I don't want to go on record wherever Gary Davis 1592 01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,960 Speaker 1: is mentioned in the book, but whatever, Yeah, everybody out 1593 01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:41,320 Speaker 1: the blues guys lived down south. Fred McDowell lived in Coma, Mississippi, 1594 01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,560 Speaker 1: and son lived in Rochester, and you know, there was 1595 01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:48,200 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of guys that. Um. Anyway, 1596 01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:51,599 Speaker 1: it was a great opportunity to be able to learn 1597 01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:54,679 Speaker 1: and hang out with some of the greatest blues artists 1598 01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:57,280 Speaker 1: of all time. And I'll be forever grateful to Dick 1599 01:27:57,320 --> 01:28:00,479 Speaker 1: Waterman for introducing me to them. Now, you used to 1600 01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:03,000 Speaker 1: have a lot of these people are open for you. 1601 01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:08,280 Speaker 1: But what is the future of the blues. Well, a 1602 01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:11,920 Speaker 1: lot of the first generation and subsequent generations of people 1603 01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:14,559 Speaker 1: have passed away. But you know, Buddy is still around, 1604 01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:18,320 Speaker 1: and um, there's a handful of people still touring and 1605 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:21,360 Speaker 1: playing at a really high level. But there's some great 1606 01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:24,720 Speaker 1: up and coming Marcus King, there's a lot of you know, 1607 01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:27,840 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of fans of blues festivals. I 1608 01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,519 Speaker 1: think the blues is in good hands. Whether the artists 1609 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,160 Speaker 1: can make any money, you know, I just hope people 1610 01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:37,760 Speaker 1: we can negotiate so that the streaming services can pay 1611 01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:39,800 Speaker 1: better you know, we're just working hard to get that 1612 01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,960 Speaker 1: in the songwriters, to get paid more and directly. So 1613 01:28:43,120 --> 01:28:48,080 Speaker 1: that's a whole another thing. So what's your number one 1614 01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:54,240 Speaker 1: pinch me moment? Oh gosh, oh I love that question. 1615 01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:59,639 Speaker 1: Um oh when Ella Fitzgerald and Natalie Cole said album 1616 01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:02,080 Speaker 1: of the Year and mentioned my name, I mean, I 1617 01:29:02,120 --> 01:29:05,920 Speaker 1: don't even remember. I was in hyperspace within you know, 1618 01:29:06,320 --> 01:29:09,160 Speaker 1: there's a picture of me looking like that Edward Munch 1619 01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,640 Speaker 1: the scream, you know, and I just that was a 1620 01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,599 Speaker 1: pinch me moment. And what are your two favorite Jackson 1621 01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:26,560 Speaker 1: Brown songs? Oh? My god, that first album is, you know, 1622 01:29:26,680 --> 01:29:36,479 Speaker 1: looking into You song for Adam it's very hard. Bright 1623 01:29:36,600 --> 01:29:41,120 Speaker 1: Baby Blues is about Lowell and I don't I'm trying 1624 01:29:41,200 --> 01:29:44,479 Speaker 1: to narrow it down looking into You? And okay, how 1625 01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,600 Speaker 1: about Late for the Sky. Late for the Sky unbelievable 1626 01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:52,800 Speaker 1: and also the last unbelievable. Unbelievable. You never knew what 1627 01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:54,960 Speaker 1: I loved and you don't. I don't know what you 1628 01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:57,160 Speaker 1: never knew what I loved in you you you don't 1629 01:29:57,200 --> 01:29:59,920 Speaker 1: know what you love. I don't know what you love 1630 01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,240 Speaker 1: to me. Maybe a picture of somebody I was you 1631 01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:07,000 Speaker 1: were hoping I might be. I'm getting goose bumps, just 1632 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, the guys, that genius. And the other night 1633 01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:12,880 Speaker 1: he did an hour opening set, and then he came 1634 01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:14,120 Speaker 1: back and played an hour and a half and it 1635 01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:18,680 Speaker 1: was just one after the other of incredible music. The 1636 01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:21,000 Speaker 1: other one is the last song on the first side 1637 01:30:21,000 --> 01:30:23,600 Speaker 1: of the title track, We Goes, And it took me 1638 01:30:23,640 --> 01:30:25,479 Speaker 1: a long time to get into, about two years after 1639 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:27,479 Speaker 1: the album came out in seventy four, dreaming of the 1640 01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:31,240 Speaker 1: perfect love, holding it so far above that if you 1641 01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:35,040 Speaker 1: stumbled down to someone real, you'd never know. Oh God, 1642 01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:38,800 Speaker 1: he's so profound and so and you know, between him 1643 01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:42,320 Speaker 1: and Prian and Richard Thompson at that age, you know 1644 01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,960 Speaker 1: that young. To be that insightful is just astonishing. Well, 1645 01:30:46,000 --> 01:30:49,760 Speaker 1: look at Dylan, Come on, does he have a new Chronicles? 1646 01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:52,560 Speaker 1: There was that just in That was just in the 1647 01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,719 Speaker 1: paper today. The New York Times has excerpts I can't 1648 01:30:55,800 --> 01:31:00,240 Speaker 1: wait right, And then the reason I say too is 1649 01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:02,960 Speaker 1: the Kinks have that song A line in Sunny Afternoon, 1650 01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:06,040 Speaker 1: give me two good reasons why I ought to stay, 1651 01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,400 Speaker 1: And that's why I always ask too. Yeah, that's good. 1652 01:31:10,439 --> 01:31:14,679 Speaker 1: I'm glad you told me that. And Finally, your set list, 1653 01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:19,240 Speaker 1: unlike a lot of your contemporaries, is not identical every night. 1654 01:31:20,360 --> 01:31:24,120 Speaker 1: How do you how do you choose what to play? Well, 1655 01:31:24,360 --> 01:31:26,639 Speaker 1: there's an arc of how to set up the three 1656 01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:29,280 Speaker 1: big ballots and the course of an hour and a half, 1657 01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:31,840 Speaker 1: I mean, when we're not having a big headliner on 1658 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:34,240 Speaker 1: the show with us a code bill that's more like 1659 01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:37,719 Speaker 1: a double bill. I have an hour and I almost 1660 01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:39,760 Speaker 1: have two hours, so I can fit more in. But 1661 01:31:39,920 --> 01:31:42,599 Speaker 1: in this instance it's really tough to I Can't Make 1662 01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:45,000 Speaker 1: You Love Me has to be set in the right place, 1663 01:31:45,120 --> 01:31:47,800 Speaker 1: Angel from Montgomery, and then one of the ballots from 1664 01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:51,200 Speaker 1: the new album. So I I just learned how to 1665 01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:54,360 Speaker 1: put together a good show. And and so there's pieces 1666 01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:57,000 Speaker 1: in the show that blues. There's about four songs that 1667 01:31:57,320 --> 01:32:02,320 Speaker 1: take different maybe four or five I swap out, you know, 1668 01:32:02,680 --> 01:32:04,640 Speaker 1: depending on which city I'm in and who's in the 1669 01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:07,560 Speaker 1: audience that are friends of mine. I might do the 1670 01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:10,080 Speaker 1: Inexcess song, or I might do the Bonnie Hayes song. 1671 01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:12,400 Speaker 1: You know. So there's there's ones that keep it interesting 1672 01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:14,320 Speaker 1: for me. But do is there enough time to go 1673 01:32:14,439 --> 01:32:17,920 Speaker 1: back and play all my favorites? No, it's very frustrating. 1674 01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:23,920 Speaker 1: How many songs are rehearsed. Oh my gosh, probably forty. 1675 01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:26,840 Speaker 1: I mean we have two new guys. I mean, my 1676 01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:29,800 Speaker 1: older guys know many, many more than that. You know, 1677 01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:32,320 Speaker 1: the guys have been with me since the early eighties 1678 01:32:33,000 --> 01:32:36,160 Speaker 1: and the early nineties have know many more songs as 1679 01:32:36,160 --> 01:32:39,160 Speaker 1: they've played on the records. So the two new guys, 1680 01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:44,920 Speaker 1: I think they know maybe thirty five songs. Forty songs. Okay, Well, 1681 01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:46,840 Speaker 1: you'll be going on the road soon. I want to 1682 01:32:46,920 --> 01:32:50,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much for taking the time out. And 1683 01:32:51,080 --> 01:32:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm taking my time, that's for sure. But you know 1684 01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:58,559 Speaker 1: I can tell you stories of being in Jackson Hole. 1685 01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:00,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell the story very quickly. Then I'm gonna go. 1686 01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,760 Speaker 1: So there's a place called a million Dollar Cowboy Bar 1687 01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:08,160 Speaker 1: in jack I've only been there a couple of times, 1688 01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:11,599 Speaker 1: but I know which one you're talking about. So, uh, 1689 01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:16,240 Speaker 1: the stools or cowboys seats, they're silver dollars in the bar, 1690 01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:20,639 Speaker 1: and they served golden Cadillac's, a drink of nineteen seventy four, 1691 01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:22,760 Speaker 1: And there were girls dancing on the dance floor. This 1692 01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:25,920 Speaker 1: was a weeknight in April, and I went over to 1693 01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:30,240 Speaker 1: dance with him. And some guy came over and threw 1694 01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:34,360 Speaker 1: me right to the floor, and you know, these are 1695 01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:36,920 Speaker 1: cowboys and it's not like So I look at the 1696 01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:39,320 Speaker 1: guy who want to only met that day and we 1697 01:33:39,800 --> 01:33:43,519 Speaker 1: run out of there into his Ford dacottoline van which 1698 01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:46,920 Speaker 1: he was living in. And first he turns the key 1699 01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:49,840 Speaker 1: that doesn't start. Then he turns it again it does start, 1700 01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:52,519 Speaker 1: and we're driving to Titan Village, which is about ten 1701 01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:56,000 Speaker 1: or fifteen minutes. It's one of those absolutely clear nights. 1702 01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:00,720 Speaker 1: And in the old days he had like a briefcase 1703 01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:04,600 Speaker 1: of cassettes, and the odds of having somebody, you know, 1704 01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:06,360 Speaker 1: hav any of the other than the hits were low. 1705 01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,320 Speaker 1: And I looked through it and I saw it. Take 1706 01:34:09,360 --> 01:34:13,599 Speaker 1: it my time, Yeah, And I said, I gotta play 1707 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,400 Speaker 1: I feel the same, and put it in the cassette 1708 01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:19,040 Speaker 1: that played it under the big wyoming sky, and I'm 1709 01:34:19,040 --> 01:34:21,720 Speaker 1: telling you the story. Thank you, thank you, because I 1710 01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:23,960 Speaker 1: love that song, I love that recording. I love Chris 1711 01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:26,920 Speaker 1: Smither absolutely. I mean, we share a lot of the 1712 01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:29,040 Speaker 1: same love for the same music for the same reason. 1713 01:34:29,160 --> 01:34:32,040 Speaker 1: So I'm always fascinated to read your letter. Thank you 1714 01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:36,080 Speaker 1: for talking to me. Thank you until next time. This 1715 01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:37,400 Speaker 1: is Bob left sex