WEBVTT - Confusion Over Antibody Tests 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:03.720 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.320 Jason Kelley. We're right here every day bringing you the 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:11.160 latest news from the world's of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.320 all harnessing the power of Business Week reporters and editors. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:16.439 And of course Carol that's part of a team of 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:20.439 twenty seven hundred journalists and analysts more than a hundred 0:00:20.480 --> 0:00:23.280 and twenty countries and Jason. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.239 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:28.640 also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.560 on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.680 by searching Bloomberg Global News. We did see Florida reporting 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.600 new cases rising to the highest level since the pandemic began. 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:44.080 Texas saw hospitalizations surge. Two more signs at the virus 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:46.280 outbreak is we're sitting in some U States and meantime, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.400 we at Beijing shutting at schools un concerned about new 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.600 infections as China started testing all shipments of imported meat 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.360 that had a fresh outbreak that was linked to another 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.400 wholesale seafood and meat market in the capital. So back 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.160 with us to talk about where we are and what 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:04.840 we need to do and how we kind of, you know, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.160 deal with what's going on, especially when you come at 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.080 it from different angles when it comes to the viruses. 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.120 Dr William Hazeltine, he is chairman and president of Access 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:17.640 Health Internationally, joins us on the phone from Connecticut. Doctor Hasltin, 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:20.560 it's great to have you back with us. Um. What 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:25.520 do you make of the most recent virus headlines. Well, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:30.839 I'm looking right now at what's happened in Florida, and 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.240 in many ways it was predictable. It was averaging about 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:39.040 five hundred, between four and five hundred up to eight 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:41.760 hundred cases sometimes for about a month and a half, 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:46.199 and then starting in the end of May early June, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.280 he just started to rise. A couple of days ago 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.480 there were two thousand five cases, uh, and now there 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.280 may be about two thousand new cases. It's pretty serious, 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.520 and what it means is that the precautions that people 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:05.160 were taking we're eased off about two weeks ago, and 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:10.040 we're now seeing that as spikes and newly diagnosed infections, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:15.639 mostly because people are getting uh, mild, lil or seriously ill. 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:18.920 And that's happening in many parts of the country. Some 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.120 other parts, like New York City, it's still relatively calm. 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.880 People in New York at really scared and they know 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:30.399 it's important to keep social distance. But even in New York, 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:35.399 it's people are beginning to forget. And so, what have 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:39.639 we learned about our initial response, doctor has l ten 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.160 that we can maybe put into practice now because there 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.120 is this I think strong resistance on the part of 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.400 both government leaders and just everyday people to go back 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:56.920 to a full on shutdown. Yeah, I understand that. It's uh, 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.960 it's fully, fully understandable. And what the way I look 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:05.800 at is the following. We paid a price, but we 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:09.399 didn't get the benefit. That's because we didn't do it right. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:15.240 We didn't really enforced contact tracing and mandatory isolation, and 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:19.679 people weren't particularly observant all all the people weren't observant 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:23.000 about the precautions they were urged to take. So we 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:26.000 never cleared the infection like a number of other countries did, 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:29.680 or reduce it down to a very manageable level of 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.560 say a half a dozen five six in the whole country. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.960 We just didn't do that, and so we we paid 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:39.960 a price, but we didn't get a benefit. The net 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:41.800 result is we're now going to end up in a 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.880 different situation, which is I call it back to the future. 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:49.760 When I was born seventy five years ago, it was 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:54.440 right on the cusp of the vaccine and antibiotic miracles. 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:59.400 Before that time, people lived with the understanding that death 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:04.600 could strike them at any moment. Even I remember polio, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:09.400 I remember being terrified of rheumatic fever. Those are things 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:13.400 we couldn't control. And in fact, we've built America. We've 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.200 built the world in a world without vaccines and in 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.920 the world without antibiotics. But you pay a price that 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.839 we're beginning to understand, and that price is death. Is 0:04:25.880 --> 0:04:28.960 that your shoulder at all moments? And it seems that 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.240 we're willing to adapt to that. We've adapted in the past, 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:37.480 we'll adapt again. We have exiting the time at least 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.640 for now, where we have a free ride and don't 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:47.600 have to worry about dying of an infectious disease tomorrow. Wow. Okay, 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:51.000 So so how do we do this? Because you know, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.200 you're right, you know we're kind of in this interesting situation, 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.159 and yes, history has shown us we can forge ahead, 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.880 and we can You know build society, but there is 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:08.599 a cost to it. So as we reopen, do we 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:11.200 do we do it? You will pay the price. Yes, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.120 we do do it. I I happen to agree. We 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:19.080 don't have any choice because Americans seems to be undisciplined 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:24.320 and we don't have either the leadership, the governments or 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:28.479 the government apparatus that we need. We need leaders that 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:34.880 are clear, consistent, credible, and compassionate. We need government governance 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.640 that works, and we need a public health service very 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.040 much like an army that has unitary command from the 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.520 top to the bottom. When the President says it's up 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.760 to the governors, he's right. He doesn't have a tool 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:51.960 he can use like he can use the military abroad. 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.000 We don't have that tool. When the governor say it's 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.839 up to the municipalities of the cities. I live in 0:05:57.880 --> 0:05:59.919 New York and you can see the tension between the 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.440 governor and the mayor, and the mayor might even in 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:06.480 some places as the county leader may say it's up 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.760 to the local authorities. We don't have unitary commands in 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.440 public health service. If there's a lesson we learned from this, 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:19.880 it's we need unitary command to protect us internally as 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:25.000 we do externally. Our biggest threats in my lifetime have 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:29.360 not come from abroad. They've come from diseases within our 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:34.000 own country, whether it was HIV AIDS or whether there 0:06:34.080 --> 0:06:37.880 was a number of other diseases polio that I can remember. 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:41.640 Those are the big threats, and we've not prepared for 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.479 those like we are prepared for external threats. Right, let's 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.320 get back to our conversation with Dr William Hazeltine, Chair 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.039 President of Access Health International. Join us on the fund 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.520 from Connecticut. It's also got a new book. It's called 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.280 A Family Guide to COVID And one of the things 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:58.320 I love about this, Dr Heseltine, is it's a book 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:01.000 that lives right now. But this is a fast moving story. 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:04.000 So you give people access to your website because you're 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.479 gonna keep updating this. Tell us what led you to 0:07:06.640 --> 0:07:13.040 write this. I remember during the early days of HIV AIDS, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.000 so many people had questions and there was no place 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.840 they could go for answers. This is even more serious 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.600 than that because it's kids that are affected. If you're 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.480 a parent, you have kids that are asking questions all 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.800 the time. I'm a grandparent and I've got a lot 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:33.560 of grand children asking me questions and their parents asking me, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.480 and so I decided that I would write a book 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:42.000 to answer questions in a very simple way. The kind 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.000 of questions the kids are going to ask, our parents 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.600 will ask themselves in each other heads, like what's happened mom? 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.400 Why can't I go play with my friends? Or how 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:54.520 long is this going to go on? Or will science 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:58.600 save us? Adults are going to say things like should 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:00.520 I really put maths on my kids when they go 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.280 to play with their friends? Should they play with any friends? 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.040 What's the situation today? It changes as we know. This 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.440 is a every changing situation. So this is what I 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:13.760 call a living book in the sense that the book 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.960 will change along with our knowledge. Questions will disappear, answers 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:21.400 will change. There is no said answer of answers yet, 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.400 so it's a living document. It's been a lot of 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.120 fun to do, and I hope it's helpful. I have 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.080 to say, you know, we just went through a conversation 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.520 my daughter last night. She's seventeen, you know, getting medy 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.040 to be a senior in high school. Jason has a 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:39.319 teenager the same age, and another one and a little one. 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.240 But she was like, I just missed my friends mom 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.280 and they've done the zoom thing and they do everything, 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.280 and you just you do think about like, we don't 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.439 know what school is going to be like in the fall, 0:08:49.240 --> 0:08:52.160 you know, uh, you know, her world is being turned 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.880 upside down and and we're so happy we're healthy. But 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.720 you do realize the mark that this is having, you know, 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:03.839 on a younger generation. Absolutely you do. And it's at 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:07.439 a time when young people have to get out. This 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.280 is what young people have to do, whether they're children, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:13.120 whether they're teenagers. I've talked to a lot to do 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:15.520 this book. I talked to a lot of kids. I 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.839 rounded up every grand child and a child I could find, 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.720 and a lot of teenagers. You know. I talked to 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.000 a teenage boy who said, this whole thing is a 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:28.079 plot to keep me from my girlfriend. That's life. That's 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.400 what parents are dealing with. No, they are. And I 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.280 think we do think a lot about as as Carol mentioned, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.840 you know, kids going off to college and being deprived 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.320 of that experience. But you know, I think you provided 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:44.559 some really good historical perspective in that regard. Dr haselteen 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.320 that you know, this is this is new to to 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.000 all of us and in many ways. And yet, um, 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.200 you know this is something that as a society we've 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.720 dealt with before and we just have to learn to adapt. 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:59.839 In many ways we do. But it's not going to 0:09:59.920 --> 0:10:03.199 be easy, is it? Is it safe to say? I mean, 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.319 I was listening to a conversation on Bloomberg Radio earlier 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:08.760 just about a vaccine, and I know there are some 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.800 folks that are saying, oh, we could get it, you know, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.679 later this year. What's the reality and do we have 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:20.920 to until we have a vaccine, life will not be normal. Well, 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.080 you know, we lived for as I said, for centuries 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:29.320 without vaccines, so you can live. Secondly, Uh, there are 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:31.600 things you can do. Other countries have shut this virus 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.800 down almost completely, not completely, and it won't be gone completely. 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:39.120 And we are going to have drugs that are temporary 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.640 vaccines for anybody who's exposed. We will have drugs within 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:46.120 a year that will prevent anybody from being exposed from 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:50.000 falling ill. I'm virtually certain of that. Vaccines I've given 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:57.760 at Wow. Well, Uh, as always, we really appreciate your time, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.679 Dr William has Alten. The new book is called A 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.840 Family Guide to COVID and when you pick it up, 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.720 you should note just as he said, it's a living book, 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:10.520 and so you'll be able to get into a website 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.240 that will be constantly updated because the questions are changing it. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:14.920 As he said, the answers are changing. I mean, I 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.959 think about the conversations we have now, Carol versus what 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:20.400 we're having a month ago, six weeks ago. I mean, 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.560 we're in our fourteenth week of doing this broadcast this way, 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.559 I know, right, And I think what's also interesting and 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.240 crazy is that there are still so many questions about 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.000 kind of getting our head, you know, our heads around 0:11:32.080 --> 0:11:34.640 it and and getting back to normal. And I think 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.199 what he says is at some point, you know, you're 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.520 going to have to get out there, and there will 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.560 be a price to pay for it, and consequences. For sure, 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:45.319 We'll I'll have to adjust, all right. That was Dr 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.200 William Hazeltine, chair president of Access Health International, his new book, 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:53.560 A Family Guide to COVID. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.640 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.280 All right, let's do a little bit this week economics. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:06.160 It's been very busy on that front. Between that blockbuster number, 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.280 or at least a number that caught people by surprise. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:11.680 Even as you dug down, you sort of got these 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.839 elements that still made you say if you were a 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.360 Carol Mass or at least WOA. So we're gonna break 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:21.120 that down as well as what we heard from J Pow. 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.080 What we've heard so far the first of a two 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.920 day testimony that he has up on Capitol Hill. Uh. 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.600 Let's turn to Kathleen Hayes, Globe Economics said policy editor 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.960 for Bloomberg. She's anar Bloomberg and Erector Broker Studio. Elena 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.040 schletivis senior US economists for Bloomberg Economics. She joins us 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.640 on the phone from Long Island. So, k H, I 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:41.679 want to start with you, J Pow. What what do 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.760 we need to know? I mean, we've heard a lot 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.200 from this guy over the past few weeks. He's been 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.480 tip of the spear in many ways, or certainly the 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:52.679 FED has what's the key takeaway? Well, I the the 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.920 chair I think is describing reality when he says that, yes, 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.240 the economy, look at the UM employment report, look at 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.839 how much jobs rose. It's definitely coming off the lows. 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:06.920 I think what he said today is uh, it's uh, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.600 maybe even the beginning of recovery, but still in much 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:17.360 worse shape than it was before the lockdowns, before everyone 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.719 had to shut down. And I think that's what he 0:13:19.760 --> 0:13:21.960 wants everyone to remember. Yes, it's good that things are 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.360 getting better, but they're not good enough yet. So I 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:28.439 think that's a very important point. Maybe part of the 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:30.760 reason he's saying this is because he does want to 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:33.839 make it clear that what the data show you is 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.360 there is still a need to help some people. Because 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.640 the last thing he's going to do is tell Congress 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.560 Republicans or Democrats that yes, you better get out there 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.120 and and you know, renew that program, do this, do that, right, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.199 He's going to stay away from that. But by underscoring 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.960 the fact that there's gonna be a lot of people 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.120 without jobs even after the economy gets into recovery, I 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:54.319 think that sends the message. So maybe that's part of 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:57.079 the reason, But it's also how it looks. Elene is 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.120 going to get into the retail sales force. But you know, 0:13:59.200 --> 0:14:01.319 you combine retail sales and chops and a couple of 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:05.079 things and you say, gee, maybe actually, queue Elena, can 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:07.199 Helena come on in because you actually put out some 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.720 research specifically on that retail sales report and you said, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:16.200 maybe slow down, everybody, don't get too excited about it. Okay, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.880 so actually cheered Powell today made a note of that, 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:24.880 and he acknowledged stronger than expected gain in the main 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:30.040 retail sales, but he ascribed it to the eight coming 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:34.840 from the measures including the Big Checks protection program basically 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:40.080 the fiscal support uh from and and monitory policy support. Uh. 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.720 The crisis was evolving, so uh. He also said that 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.880 the federally means agnostic with respect to the strength of 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:52.880 the recovery, and that is the scene of all of 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.960 his latest remarks. So what he's trying to say is 0:14:57.080 --> 0:15:00.680 that in case of retail sales, for example, that this 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:06.920 rebound follows the significant drop in activity. So in terms 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:13.280 of retail sales, decline over the previous three months was 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:20.640 followed by an eighteen percent rebound, but activity remains still 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:26.120 remains below its pre crisis levels. So retail sales are 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.480 eight percent below what we saw back in January. We'll 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:33.480 take time for that to get back to the trend. Right. 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.800 It's easy to come back from such a terrible level, 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.840 and you do wonder about Okay, So what's going to 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.160 be the economic momentum on the other side, Kathleen, especially 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.480 when you know, we see stories about temporary jobs loss 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.280 temporary job losses will become permanent ones, and you talk 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:48.880 about you know a lot of folks. Now, that's what 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:51.120 we don't, right, I think, And I think it seems 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.080 it seems logical, right, it seems how can we conclude 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:56.440 that a lot of small businesses don't just feel shattered, 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:58.760 and not not only feel shattered, they are shattered. They're 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.600 not coming back. So and I think that's I think 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.880 that's what I'm j Pal's biggest worries, and he's mentioned 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.160 that many times, and that's such an important part of 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.080 the economy, but we don't That's one thing we don't know. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:13.400 And I would say, never underestimate the appetite of the 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.400 American consumer. And once people can get out and go 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:19.760 to more stores. I don't know about you guys, but 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:21.640 on the Upper West Side of Manhattan and most of 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:27.200 the retailers are still closed. So I just wonder myself 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:32.320 if maybe this this rebound may continue more than people think. 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.440 Because if there's one thing people do in this country, 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.320 they shop and they've been locked at home. And then 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:39.480 I then I think the question is how long? Because 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.560 you're with me right now, I'm well, I'll totally with you. 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.240 But Jason, man, you need some new sneakers. He's like, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.680 I think there's a little withdrawal going on there, but 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.480 I would. But I think it's a really interesting point, Kathleen, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.240 because social thing for all of us, you're seeing people, 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:56.480 you know, when they are allowed to really get out there, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.720 I mean numbers. Notwithstanding even the conversation we just had 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:02.560 with the CEO of FedEx office. She basically like, look, 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.800 I'm in Dallas, people are out, the malls are bumping, 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:08.200 and you know this is going to happen. Then I 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:10.399 want to throw on because I want to get Jake can. 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.000 I just want to let Len in on this. But 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:13.200 first I just want to mind. I want to be 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:17.480 speaking to Rob Kaplan on Daybreak Australia today at six 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.159 thirty pm. And of course he lives in Dallas. He 0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:21.959 lives in Texas. That's one of things I definitely want 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.320 to ask him about. And there a phase three. So Helena, 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:26.960 what do you want to add? Just you know, I 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.480 agree with you guys on the spirit of an American consumer, 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.440 I'm eating myself to go out there and spend some money. 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.720 But as long as you have this money, as long 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.240 as you have the means to spend. So remember the 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.879 gap is still huge between the trends, the pre crisis 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:47.920 trends in wage income and what we're seeing at the 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:52.119 current levels that was more than of set by stimulus 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:56.680 checks over the peak of the crisis. But what happens 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.440 going into the second half of the year when this 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:04.879 what gets reduced and or eliminated. So that's what I 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.080 want to see. You want to see whether people actually 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.840 have the money to spend. They may want to, they 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:12.560 may want to get out in shop there. It wouldn't 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.080 be a nice surprise if all these programs that have started, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.000 including the main street lending program, actually end up getting 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:21.800 some money in the pockets of the business owners, who 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.280 then really can say, even if I'm not at full speed, 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.160 I'm getting back, you know, I'm getting back online. I'm 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.320 working again. I want you know, I've got to I 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.760 can bring some of my employees back. I think that's 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.000 that's the X factor that nobody knows right now. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.320 it's one of the many, many things we still don't 0:18:38.400 --> 0:18:41.000 know about what happens sex. All right, thank you both 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.560 for a spirited conversation. Kathleen Hayes glow Like and Ice 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:45.919 in policy editor for Bloomberg. She's back home in our 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.560 Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. And Elena Shall. Let you have 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.680 a senior US economist for Bloomberg Economics, Jonius, on the 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:55.879 phone from Long Island. So many questions, Jason Kelly, So 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:57.840 many questions. Are you answer to get out there and 0:18:57.920 --> 0:19:04.159 go shopping? Not really, not really, Like I was a 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.800 little auntie too, like go, you know, have a burger, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.600 which I did and that was great. Um. But you know, 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:11.720 I also have the benefit of the suburbs, and you 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:13.480 know I can get out and about a little bit more. 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:17.280 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:22.000 Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. Let's talk about an aspect of 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:26.160 the coronavirus crisis that we actually haven't spent as much 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:28.440 time on of late. So I'm excited we get to 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:33.240 talk about this story concerns antibody tests and the headline 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.120 in the story that will be in the upcoming edition 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.040 of Bloomberg Business Week, says antibody tests are everywhere now 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.320 and confusing everyone. Kristen Brown, the healthcare reporter for Bloomberg. 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:47.480 She wrote it. She joins us on the phone from California. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.320 Joel Webber, the editor Bloomberg Business Week. He's on. He's 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:55.159 with us from Brooklyn. So Joel, help us understand how 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.240 you got to this story and why it's important. A 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.800 couple of weeks ago, UM, I call Kristen and said, UM, 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.240 you know, I'm basically thinking about doing an antibody test 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:09.080 for myself. What do I need to know? And she 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:13.120 was basically like, uh, kind of don't bother because nobody 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.159 understands anything about what the results are. Right. I'm being 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.440 a little facetist here, But like, I think the main 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.720 thing that Kristen uh and I kicked around on that 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.080 call and that she writes about is is that really 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.880 we don't know what these antibody tests and the outcomes 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:36.320 really mean yet, and that is adding just a whole 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:41.119 level of confusion to the coronavirus conversation because you might 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:43.920 have had it and tested positive for it, but this 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.960 antibody thing, we don't really understand if that actually makes you, 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.160 you know, it shows you any immunity to the virus 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:53.639 at all. Um, Kristen, what did you learn while you 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:58.560 were reporting this? Yeah? So interestingly, I so I should 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.760 disclose I actually did to have an antibody test myself 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.720 because I was curious, even though I know they're worthless. 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.359 And I think that that's the really interesting thing is 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.520 even if you're up on the science and you understand 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:17.960 that we know that antibody is probably confers some immunity, 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.879 but we don't know how how much immunity, So it 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.000 means that the test really isn't going to change anything 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.320 about your life, right, you still have to be careful, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.680 but they there's this desire to have this feeling that 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:34.200 maybe you have some protection against this virus. And I 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:38.320 think there's this really interesting thing going on where testing companies, 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:43.040 doctor's offices are now sort of preying on that that desire, 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:45.280 that hope we all have. You know, several of our 0:21:45.280 --> 0:21:49.240 Bloomberg colleagues forarded me emails they got or text messages 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.080 they got from their own doctor's office saying, you know, 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:55.560 book an antibody test today. We've got them. Even though 0:21:56.040 --> 0:22:00.159 the science says, and good medicine says, there's no than 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:02.880 for an individual to get this test, because the test 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:06.720 isn't going to change anything about your behavior. Kristen, I 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.480 feel like with everything with COVID nineteen, it's not easy. 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.320 It's not simple, and that includes, you know, these tests, 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.879 and what's tough is there's so many out there. Feels 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.280 like everywhere you look, you know, there's an antibody tests. 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:22.560 What's interesting is you talk about, even in your story, 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:26.040 how people are starting to vet antibody tests. I guess 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.760 to figure out which ones maybe perhaps are more reliable. 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.480 But you know, I felt like this was going to 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.359 be the holy grail to some extent, you know, in 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.840 addition to a vaccine, to being able to reopen safely. 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.160 And now what we're hearing is maybe that's not the case. 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.440 You know, I shouldn't say that. If not that the 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:46.480 tests are completely worthless, right, there are some scenarios in 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.840 which these tests can be very useful, and so it 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:55.960 is important that test manufacturers have very good, highly sensitive, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.200 highly specific tests. Uh. Those those cases include you know, 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.120