1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hi guys, Nancy Grace. Here, at a time when we 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: are all pulling together to fight coronavirus COVID nineteen, I 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: have something for you and all free E chapter on 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: coronavirus crimes and how to fight them. Don't be a 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: coronavirus crime victim. From door to door sales of fake 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: cures and tests vaccines that's not real, to robocalls that 7 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: are trying to scam you, to fake ads, to fishing 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: you online, to fake cures that are being sold on 9 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: the internet and on infomercials. Right now, you've got to 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: arm yourself against these crimes. Please download our free E 11 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: chapter Coronavirus Crimes. Don't be a victim. Go to crime 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: online dot com. You'll see it there in the link 13 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: and download it for free. Arm yourself against criminals and 14 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: scam artists, cons that will not only take advantage of you, 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: but take advantage of you, your parents, your grandparents, and 16 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: people you love. At a time well we are all 17 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: fighting the virus. I hope you go to crime online 18 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: dot com and download this. It's been highly researched and 19 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: presented for you for free. Goodbye, friend, keep the faith. 20 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: When most people think of their mom. They think of 21 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: all the love and care of their mom gave them 22 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: while they were growing up. We think about Mother's Day, 23 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: Valentine's Day, Christmas, special things we can do with our moms, 24 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: all those wonderful homemade meals, all the love you don't 25 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 1: usually put mother and daughter and the same sentence as 26 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: selling body parts. That's right. I'm Nancy Grace. This is 27 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us Crime Stories 28 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. How do the words mother daughter duo 29 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: fit in the same sentence with selling body parts? Let 30 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: that so kN just for a moment. Why with the 31 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: words mother daughter duo end up in the same sentence 32 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: as selling body parts? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 33 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us here on Fox Nation and 34 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: Sirius XM one eleven. A mother daughter duo connected to 35 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: selling body parts? How does that work? We'll take a 36 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 1: listen to our frience Akmghjverse seven Jennifer Kobaleski State regulators 37 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: tell me they're investigating eleven complaints against the funeral home. 38 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: And this Ruter's special report found the FBI is investigating 39 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: a side business owner, Megan hess is running out of 40 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: the same building selling human body parts. We called hess 41 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: Hi Megan. My name is Jennif Kovaleski and I'm a 42 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 1: reporter with Chanel seven. When I asked her about selling 43 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: human body parts, all she would say is, we don't sell, 44 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: we recover. There's a difference, there's no selling. Before hanging up, 45 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: X employee Kerry Esher also told Reuters about gold teeth 46 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: taken from corpses. She says the family sold to pay 47 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: for a Disney vacation. Not to be clear in Colorado. 48 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: In most states, it's perfectly legal for funeral homes to 49 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: sell items taken from candavers, including gold teeth. Okay, I 50 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: didn't know that, and I've been prosecuting felonies for I 51 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: don't even know how long. Anymore, it's okay to recover 52 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel, to break it down 53 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: and put it back together again. With the overarching question, 54 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: when you send your loved one's family body to a 55 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:16,039 Speaker 1: funeral home, what happens? And how did a mother and 56 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: daughter duo get into a side business aside from their 57 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: family owned funeral home. What happened? I mean, I just 58 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: went through the death of my dad and we went 59 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: to a local funeral home in Macon and they were wonderful. 60 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: And I never thought this type of thing would happen 61 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: at a reputable funeral home, the thought that that would 62 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 1: happen to your loved one's body. Wendy Wiener is joining us, 63 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: attorney specializing in funeral home law. This is her expertise. 64 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: She knows it like the back of her hand. Also 65 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 1: with me, thirty six years Seattle PD and Homicide Division, 66 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gen Grant, Cloyd Steiger, 67 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: forensics expert and host of Shattered Soul's podcast, Joining me 68 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: out of California. Karen Smith, the Deputy Medical Examer for 69 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: the Travis County mm's office AT's in Austin, Texas. Doctor 70 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: Kendall Crown's renowned New York psychologist Karen Stark at Karen 71 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: Stark dot com, but straight out to Crime online dot Com. 72 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: Investigative reporter Nicole Parton, who I would like to point 73 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: out is a licensed funeral director. Nicole Parton, before we 74 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: get on with what it entails being a funeral home director, 75 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: What happened? What happened with mesa Sunset funeral home out 76 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: in Colorado, MESSI a horrific story. I can't imagine what 77 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: these families are feeling knowing that their loved ones bodies 78 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: were cut in pieces and then sold. And the kicker is, 79 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: do you wait a minute, I didn't even I didn't 80 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: even know that part. I knew what I guess. You 81 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: have to cut the body in pieces to harvest. That's 82 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: certainly putting perfume on the pig the body parts. Okay, 83 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 1: mother daughter duo in Colorado illegally sells body parts or 84 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: entire bodies through a funeral home without consider the families. 85 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,239 Speaker 1: Is that it in a nutshell? That's it. That's correct. 86 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,919 Speaker 1: Sometimes they were selling the entire body, the whole court, 87 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: but in many cases they were dissecting the body, cutting 88 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: up the body and selling individual parts. Okay, so what 89 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: can you tell me about the mother daughter duo? Was 90 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 1: this their funeral home? What do we know about that? Yeah, 91 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 1: it was actually their funeral home. Megan has forty three 92 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: years old family owned and operated business, worked closely with 93 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,239 Speaker 1: her parents there, and somehow this mother daughter operation started 94 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: the side job of selling these bodies. Now you have 95 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: to understand they're in a small community there, well loved, 96 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: well known, a local funeral home and no one knew 97 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: what was going on behind the scenes until all of 98 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: this began to come out. I've got to go to 99 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: Karen Start, New York psychologist Karen at a time when 100 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: you're dealing with a horrible blow, like my dad, we 101 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: did everything together. We exercised together. He taught me how 102 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: to dance, how to drive. He was quite the dancer, 103 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: by the way, Karen Start. He was a life of 104 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: the party. He met my dad many many times. And 105 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: the thought that this could happen to his body at 106 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: the funeral home, I mean, person, the families are already 107 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: dealing with so much with a loss, and then to 108 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: imagine this is happening in the back rooms. What does 109 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: that do to a person? And why are you so 110 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: vulnerable at the time your loved one has passed away. Well, 111 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: I mean people are trying to cope with loss and 112 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: not as you know, Nancy, not having that person in 113 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: your life. And it's very important to be able to 114 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: go through some kind of ritual after people died, so 115 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: that you hold them near. For so many people, they 116 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: want to see the body or they want to remain 117 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 1: it's a symbol of this person lived and I love them. 118 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: I cared about them and they go on in my memory, 119 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: and when they are faced with something like this, it's devastating, 120 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: just devastating to imagine that they thought they were with 121 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: their loved ones even though the people had died. And 122 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: then to discuss or that someone has done something, taken 123 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: the body. They've been duped at a time when they 124 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: are most vulnerable. It's horrific. You know. I'm just trying 125 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: to figure out how this whole thing came to light. 126 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: Straight back to Nicole Parton, investigate a reporter on this 127 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: special case, a mother and daughter duo allegedly selling body 128 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: parts secretly of clients that came to their funeral home, 129 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: their well established family owned funeral home in Colorado. To 130 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: Nicole Parton, how did authorities find out this was happening. 131 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: I mean, certainly the victims weren't speaking, No, they weren't, 132 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: but the family members were beginning to be suspicious when 133 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: they were given the created remains of their loved ones, 134 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: or what they thought were the cremated remains of their 135 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 1: loved ones. Open and don't like the way you just 136 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: said that, Nicole Parton, or what they thought. It's just 137 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: like when you hear in the movie you know the 138 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: bad is going to happen. What do you mean by 139 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: what they thought were the cremated remains. Well, we have 140 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: stories of family members opening the urn, opening the container, 141 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: looking into the ashes and beginning to question what they 142 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: were given as cremated remains, beginning to question, is this 143 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: really the ashes of my loved one? So they reported this, 144 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: Why would you question that? I mean, what are ashes 145 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: supposed to look like? Well? That can vary, of course, 146 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: but I think some of them were able to look 147 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: in and see obvious signs. Some one family complained they 148 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: looked in the urn and they saw sands in the urn, 149 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: and they knew, surely the cremated remains of my loved one, 150 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: the ashes wouldn't look like sands. They began to complain 151 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: to the local authorities. Detectives ran some analysis of those 152 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: ashes and shun up. It came back to be all 153 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: kinds of things other than cremated remains. Okay, when you 154 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 1: think of that special mother daughter relationship like the one 155 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: I have with my mom who now lives with me, 156 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: are the one I hope to have for life with 157 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: my daughter Lucy, you don't really think about selling body 158 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: parts as part of the Equation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 159 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: We are taking a look at a mother daughter duo 160 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: out of Colorado allegedly selling body parts secretly, sometimes whole bodies. 161 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at kmgh DI Verse 162 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: seven Jennifer Kovaleski. Colorado doesn't regulate body part brokers, and 163 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: we're the only state that doesn't license funeral directors, which 164 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: means no background checks. What this funeral home is accused 165 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: of doing is eye opening and illegal or not raises 166 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: serious ethical questions. He entrusted me to take care of 167 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: his final wishes well. Also, trying to plan a funeral 168 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: is a trying task for any family. Something just wasn't 169 00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: right from the beginning. But what Ron Maybury says he 170 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: experienced its sunset. Me's a funeral home in Montrose only 171 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: added to the pain. I thought we were just doing 172 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: like an organ donation type thing, but apparently that's not 173 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 1: the case. In his final days, maybe, he says, his 174 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: friend Rex Dunlop made a dying request to have his 175 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 1: glass eye placed with his ashes. N I spent weeks 176 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: trying to recover his eye. They couldn't track down the 177 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: researcher who supposedly bought his head. Maybe he says he 178 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: never got the eye and couldn't complete his friend's final wish. Okay, 179 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: there were just jumped out at me. Joining me is 180 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: a specialist. And yes, there are legal specialists in this area. 181 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: That's what they do day in, day out. Just like 182 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 1: when I went to law school, I knew all wanted 183 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,839 Speaker 1: to be a felony oct Put the bad guys in jail, 184 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: and you develop an expertise. You take constitutional law, criminal law, 185 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: criminal procedure, rico, organized crime, every class possible, and what 186 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: you want your expertise to be. Wendy Weener is joining 187 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: US attorney specializing in funeral home law. And I know 188 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: you're not specifically talking about the Sunset Macy case, but 189 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: here's my general question. Wendy, and you are a renowned 190 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: expert in this field. How can a state like Colorado 191 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: not be licensed like other states? I thought it was 192 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: a uniform across the country. Oh, Nancy, First, thanks for 193 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: having me. The regulation of the deathcare industry is on 194 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: a state by state basis, just like the regulation of 195 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: the insurance industry, and in fact, a lot of the 196 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: laws and rules that govern the deathcare industry grew out 197 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: of the various insurance codes of the various states, so 198 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:07,359 Speaker 1: it is on a state by state basis. Colorado's regulatory 199 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: scheme is unusual, and the market there does, for the 200 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: most part, govern itself, if you will, inasmuch as a 201 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: funeral homes that don't do a good job for their 202 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 1: customers eventually are out of business. Colorado does regulate some 203 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: aspects of the destare industry, but this particular aspect was 204 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: not one of them. They govern themselves. I mean, you 205 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: can say that about pirates or dope dealers. Who's left 206 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: to govern themselves? I mean, I know, theoretically in America 207 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: we govern ourselves, we elect our leaders, but we are 208 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: subject to rules and regulations. Having a hard time getting 209 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: my mind around what you just said, Wendy Wiener is 210 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: joining me, who is renowned expert in funeral home legislation, 211 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: law and regulation. When you say that they're our regulations 212 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: in place, what type of regulations are put on funeral homes? 213 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: Because I can tell you something. It would be a 214 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: war between the gods if anybody touched so much as 215 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: a lot of hair on my father's head at the 216 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: funeral home. Oh no, that is not going to happen 217 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: on my watch. So what kind of regulations are in place? Well, 218 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: generally speaking, and I think important to this case, the 219 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: laws of most states require specific authorizations for funeral homes 220 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: to take specific actions with regard to a decedent's remains. So, 221 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: for instance, in Florida, where I live and where I 222 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: primarily practice, the laws specifically require authorization given by the 223 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: person legally authorized to do so by law for things 224 00:15:54,880 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: such as embalming, preparation, removal of the mains. And in 225 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: a case such as this, there are authorizations that are 226 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: required when a family may want to participate in one 227 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: of the body donation programs that are widely available in 228 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: the United States. Right now, you mean like organ donors 229 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: that happened at the hospital, though not at the funeral home. 230 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: You're exactly right. This is not an organ donation situation 231 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: per se. At the funeral establishment or associated with the 232 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 1: funeral establishment. There are often programs in place for the 233 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: harvesting of certain body parts, eyes, skin, lots of things 234 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: that can be beneficial for both scientific study. Okay, I've 235 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: got a question right there, weener with us specialist in 236 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: funeral home law. Right there, doctor Kendall Crowns and remind 237 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 1: me to circle back. Nan. So, I want to find 238 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: out the difference between a funeral home and a mortuary. 239 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 1: Is there one, doctor, Kendall Crowns. I thought when you 240 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: did organ donation, you had to do that, while don't 241 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,360 Speaker 1: you have to do that when the person is still alive. 242 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: So some organ donation you do have to do it 243 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: while the individuals still alive or the tissue is viable 244 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: anymore and you can't transplant it. But there is parts 245 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: of donation that can be done after the body is dead, 246 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: but it has to be done with a certain time period. 247 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: That is a bone and some soft tissues including heart 248 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: valves that they'll recover after the after the person is decease, 249 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: as well as cornea is from the eyes. Wendy Weener 250 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,800 Speaker 1: with me, lawyer specializing in funeral home law. So, Wendy, 251 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: what's the difference in a funeral home in a mortuary? 252 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: There's really not one. It's a nomenclature, long held question 253 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: in my mind. Okay, let's get back to mother daughter duo, 254 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: you know. To Kloyd Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, 255 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: twenty two years homicide now author Cloyd Steiger. Have you 256 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: ever dealt with people trafficking in body parts or bodies? 257 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: You know, I really never have because my body experiences 258 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: is limited to murder victims who you know, go under autopsies, 259 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: So you know, I've never never heard anything really like that. 260 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of shocking that I've had dismembered bodies. I've 261 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: had um bodies that were let me just say in 262 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: a not euphemistically tampered with post mortem Doctor Kendall Crown's 263 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: DEFU Medical Examiner, Travis County, Texas, have you ever dealt 264 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 1: with the sale of body parts? So, yeah, yes, they have. 265 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: And when I used to work in Chicago, they would 266 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: occasionally have packages that were being trafficked through O'Hare Airport 267 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: that would be seized and then they would be full 268 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 1: of like human skulls and they bring them into the 269 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: office for us to identify with human remains and what 270 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: they were being What people do you be doing with 271 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: human skulls? From what I understood when I asked about 272 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: your very same question, as they were being sold to 273 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: dental schools so they could work on a tief. Okay, 274 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: you know that's one aspect of criminal law. I hadn't 275 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: thought about yet, but I guess there's always something to 276 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: be explored. To Nicole Parton joining us Crimaline investigative reporter. 277 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 1: In this specific case, she is a licensed funeral director. 278 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: From what I understand, Nicole Parton, this doesn't sound like 279 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: your traditional organ donor situation. What allegedly was happening with 280 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: this mother daughter duo and Karen start, I'm gonna circle 281 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: back to you about the mother daughter dynamic and selling 282 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: illegally selling body parts together. But Nicole Parton, what exactly 283 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: were they doing? This was not on the up and up, 284 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 1: absolutely not. This was not organ donation. This was not 285 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,360 Speaker 1: in consent of the family members. So family members were 286 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: not signing consent forms saying that they authorized the funeral 287 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: home to donate parts of their loved one, but rather 288 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: the family was going in purchasing in most cases cremation 289 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: services for their loved one, and rather than this mother 290 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 1: daughter performing as they should have been the cremation, they 291 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: were selling the body parts in some cases a thousand 292 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: dollars for upper legs, five hundred dollars for heads, two 293 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars for needs. So they were never 294 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,680 Speaker 1: embombing or never cremating the loved one. They were giving 295 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: the family back an arm full of something other than 296 00:20:47,359 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: their loved one, bashes and selling their bodies. Crime stories 297 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace, a Colorado funeral home is causing more 298 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: suffering for grieving families. He's very unsettling questions for any 299 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: you know survivor that's creaming the loss of the loved one. 300 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: Terry Thorsby's parents died within six months of each other. 301 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: Her lawyer, Chris Cowan, says she arranged for them to 302 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 1: be cremated by Sunset mesa funeral home and crematorium in 303 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,920 Speaker 1: montro was about one hundred miles north of Durango. They 304 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: were expecting to get, of course, the remains back. According 305 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: to a lawsuit filed last week, Thorsby learned from the 306 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: FBI that her mother wasn't resting in peace. Her mother's 307 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: published both arms from the shoulder down her mother's right 308 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: knee and to her foot, and the mother's left knee 309 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: had been harvested before the cremation and sold to a 310 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: research facility or some sort of medical Sylvie, and that 311 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: her head had been severed. Okay. Wendy Wiener joining me 312 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: attorney specializing in funeral home law. What type of research 313 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:13,239 Speaker 1: institute would be part of sales like this? Now, I 314 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: know you are not going to talk about sunset MESA. 315 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: I understand that, But what about research and development institutes. 316 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: Aren't they under a duty to figure out where they're 317 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,159 Speaker 1: getting body parts? I mean, I'm going to go to 318 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: the grocery store and I'm going to buy X, Y, 319 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: and Z. I know where it's coming from. I'm not 320 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: going to go out on the street and try to 321 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: find those items falling off the back of a truck. 322 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: I have a duty to provide to my children wholesome, 323 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: sanitized food that's good for them. I mean, my analogy is, 324 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: don't research institutes have a duty to figure out where 325 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: body parts are coming from? Well? I think your question 326 00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: really gets to the heart of this matter, and that 327 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: is what authorization has been given by the family for 328 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 1: the use of the decedents remains. I would suspect that 329 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 1: in a case such as this, where the families were 330 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 1: not aware and where it appears that some type of 331 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 1: fraud was being perpetrated against the families involved, Likewise, there 332 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: could have been a type of fraud being perpetrated against 333 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: the end recipient of the of the parts of the 334 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: decedents remains, and so it's entirely possible that the medical 335 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: institutes or the research facilities that ultimately received these portions 336 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: of human remains were not aware that families failed to 337 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: receive or failed to give the appropriate authorization. I want 338 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: to circle back to unit whole parton joining US licensed 339 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: funeral director or investigating this case for US at crime 340 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: online dot Com. I also understand that this too mother 341 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: and daughter has in coage allegedly sent bodies and body 342 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: parts that had actually tested positive for infectious diseases or 343 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: people who died from illnesses such as HIV, hepatitis B, 344 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: hepatitis C. Although they certify to the I'll just go 345 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,399 Speaker 1: with research institutes or whoever's buying the body parts illegally 346 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 1: certifying to them that the bodies and body parts did 347 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: not have any such illnesses. So what became of those 348 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: body parts and could they have infected others? As another 349 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 1: big question, what do we know about that nicole partment 350 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: of anything? We know some about that. But yeah, in fact, 351 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: they were sending out these bodies or body parts and 352 00:24:54,520 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: again without full disclosure, without the truth concerning diseases or 353 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: the infections that were inside the body. So could they 354 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: have potentially been a farm. Absolutely, And again this goes 355 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: back to because they didn't disclose, they weren't honest, not 356 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: only with the families, but with those receiving the body. 357 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: We know the mother daughter duo ignored, according to law 358 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: enforcement wishes of mourning relatives on at least twelve occasions 359 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: by shipping bodies or body parts to a third party. 360 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,080 Speaker 1: Now you heard this one woman talking about her mother's 361 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: head being severed. Another facet of this is the mother 362 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: daughter dynamic coccion hess mother and daughter each fueling the 363 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: other's desire to illegally sell body parts. You know, I 364 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: was just thinking about this, Karen start as I was 365 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,400 Speaker 1: taking a sip of this. You know, I'm a tea drinker, 366 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: but my daughter insisted she makes a special concoction. She 367 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: whips cold water with instant coffee, adds stivia and milk, 368 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: and I don't know what she does, but she makes 369 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: a drink for me. And what I see usually at night, 370 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: right before I fall asleep, as I see John David 371 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: and Lucy's face asleep on the pillow. How does a 372 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: mother daughter relationship get so twisted that together they're like 373 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,880 Speaker 1: two witches around the fire, gnashing their teeth and switching 374 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: their tails, selling illegal body parts against the wishes of family. 375 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,960 Speaker 1: How does that dynamic get so twisted, Karen, Well, you 376 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: just discussed it, Nancy when you talked about the bond 377 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: between you and Lucy. So the two of you are 378 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,040 Speaker 1: so tight that she loves to be able to make 379 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: this concoction for you. And mothers and daughters many times 380 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: have that kind of really unusual strong bond. So if 381 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: the mother is somebody who is not a good person, 382 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: whose criminal mentality, there's a good chance that the daughter 383 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 1: will go along with it. Because you look up to 384 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: your mother. Mothers. We see them as wise and they 385 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: know it all. They help us, And it doesn't surprise 386 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: me at all that that strong bunt could be converted 387 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: into something that would be evil. Here's the reality, you know, 388 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six here Seattle PD and now author 389 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: we know of twelve firm allegations made by law enforcement. 390 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: There's no telling how many other times has happened, how 391 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: long they have been doing this before they were finally caught. 392 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: You've got one guy looking for a glass eye you've 393 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: got somebody else. They're missing their gold teeth. The body 394 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: is a severed head, a kneecap, and nobody knows exactly 395 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: what happened. This may have been going on for years 396 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: before it finally made its way to law enforcement. Cloyd. Yeah, 397 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,120 Speaker 1: you know that's my experience, Nancy, that we're just looking 398 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: at the tip of the iceberg, and these the ones 399 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: that got caught on. There are probably hundreds, if not 400 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: thousands of other cases where people were unsuspecting and never 401 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: challenged it, where they gone away with it. It's syspathetic. 402 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,679 Speaker 1: And you know another issue is, to you, Nicole Parton, 403 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: licensed funeral director, how many times do people actually look 404 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: in and urn? I know you recall my cat Cocoa, 405 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: the stray that I took in solid Black. I loved 406 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: him so much, had him eighteen years and I was 407 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,959 Speaker 1: not even a cat person. So he was cremated and 408 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: he is in a wooden urn. I've never really looked 409 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: or sifted through the ashes. So what would you expect 410 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 1: to find in an urn? What would ashes look like? Nicole? 411 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: That can vary, the amount of ashes can vary. And 412 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: you're right, most family members don't even look inside, which 413 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: echoes what you were saying earlier. This has probably been 414 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: going on for so long and has happened to many 415 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: other families. But when families do look inside, you can't 416 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: expect to see different colors. Sometimes small particles of bone 417 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: you can expect sometimes if their loved one had maybe 418 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: received pins or screws from a broken bone. You can 419 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: see those in the bottom of the earn. You can 420 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: see those mixed in with the ashes. But certainly it 421 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: would not look like sand as some of these witnesses 422 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: are saying. It's it's a darker color, and you could 423 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: definitely tell an ash as opposed to some of these 424 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: things that they were placing inside the arn. I guarantee 425 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: you that a lot of these people never even looked 426 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: inside to see what was in the arn. We are 427 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: talking about a mug her daughter, duo coach and hess 428 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: that allegedly took part in a wide ranging scam to 429 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 1: sell body parts out of their Sunset masa funeral home 430 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: in Colorado. But they're not the only ones. Take a 431 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: listen to CBS four Miami reporter Joan Murray. When that's 432 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: her face, it looks like someone had through acid on 433 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: her or she was pushed into a fire and just 434 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: left the burn. Those were the gruesome last images Ebony 435 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: Morgan says she has of her eleven year old daughter. 436 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: She claims had a botched burial. She was a sweet girl. 437 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: She used the always on the way home and across 438 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: She's taught to her dad, to her dad about how 439 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: his you know, her day was help him take his 440 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: work shoes off. Like we don't have that anymore. My 441 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: kids they're just standing us the doorway, like they don't 442 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: even go on that side of the house. Ebity Morgan's daughter, 443 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: Riasia Washington died on vacation in Georgia from an asthma attack. 444 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: Her parents said they paid Shawn Johnson Funeral Home of 445 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: Riviera Beach to preserve the body, drive her back to Florida, 446 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: and a range of proper service. Instead, they said the 447 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: body was never embombed or refrigerated. Their explanation was, we 448 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: were trying to save the family money, therefore we brought 449 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: the body back without having an embombed in Georgia, to 450 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: which the family had no knowledge of. Time stories with 451 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. In the last weeks, a family has sued 452 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: a Riviera Beach funeral home claiming this little girl's body 453 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: was left to decompose. Take a listen to a press 454 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: conference where mom Ebony is speaking about this lawsuit. When 455 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: we took pictures of my daughter, she asked us not to. UM. 456 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: I didn't understand why I was scared. I was scared 457 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 1: when I was standing there with Sean. UM. I didn't 458 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: know after seeing my daughter looking like that, no skin 459 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: on her body, her face is that? I mean, I 460 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 1: just can't. Her head was the size of a basketball, 461 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: like she my baby was. She was just so big 462 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: and stinking she was. It was. It was horrible. I 463 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: could see it on Sean's face. She was scared presenting 464 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: my daughter to me like that. She was scared, and 465 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: I was scared because she was scared. I didn't know 466 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: at that point what she was capable of. I was 467 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: just ready to go and call the police and get 468 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: someone here to see what I had just saw, because 469 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: that was just joining me. Nicole Parton Crime Online dot 470 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter Nicole Parton what happened there in Riviera Beach, Florida, 471 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 1: And this has just occurred, very sad situation, Nancy. I 472 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: can't imagine the family's horrific pain when they viewed their 473 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: daughter in this condition. So apparently the girl passed away 474 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: in Georgia, and then the Florida funeral home transported her 475 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: body back to Florida. Not an uncommon thing, but in 476 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: this case uncommon in the fact that they didn't have 477 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: her involved before the transportation, and then, according to the allegations, 478 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,520 Speaker 1: once they arrived in Florida, still no preservation of the 479 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: body took place, still not in bomb, still not placed 480 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: in a refrigerated, climate controlled facility, and of course, unfortunately 481 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: the obvious took place. Their little girl began to decompose. 482 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: Here is more of the mom in her heartbreak, talking 483 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: about her eleven year old little girl at a press conference. 484 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: This is ebony. When I saw her face, it looks 485 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 1: like someone had threw acid on her, or she was 486 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: pushed into a fire and just left to burn. Her 487 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:23,399 Speaker 1: face was unrecognizable. I didn't think that was my child. 488 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 1: Sean tried to cover her. As we continue to try 489 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: to pull the sheets off of her, she just continued 490 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,319 Speaker 1: to pull them back over and my darter hand was 491 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: out and I touched her hand and I asked Sean, 492 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: I said, Sean, is this is this my daughter's handed. 493 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: Is something happened to it, like did her hand fall 494 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: off and you had to put a fake hand here? 495 00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: Because this hand it looks see through like this hen 496 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,239 Speaker 1: is see through. It looks like a mannequin hand that 497 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 1: you see in the nailselin. She goes, no, I told 498 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,279 Speaker 1: you Rhasia, she had a skin slip. She had a 499 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 1: skin slip, Ebony, I told you that. Saying no, oh 500 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 1: you didn't. It's just almost too much for me to 501 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: take in. First she loses her daughter at eleven years 502 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: old with an asthma attack. Then her body is bungled 503 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 1: like this, I mean, according to the mother, the little girl, 504 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: Rais's body was not properly ebombed or refrigerated for nearly 505 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: two weeks. The body was at the funeral home. Nicole 506 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: Parton Crime Online dot Com reporter investigating this case. What 507 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: do we think exactly happened? Well, the allegation state the obvious. 508 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: Unfortunately that the body who was transported without embombing the 509 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: funeral home has yet to really give an explanation. They 510 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: have said something like they were trying to save the 511 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: family money. My question to them would be they should 512 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: have placed her in refrigeration. She could have been preserved. 513 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,439 Speaker 1: There are measures that could have could have taken place, 514 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,399 Speaker 1: and I will be very curious to see the outcome. Well, 515 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm curious too. I'm curious as to why there's not 516 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: a criminal investigation going on, Nicole Parton, is there? You 517 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 1: know at this point there is not. They are investigating, 518 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: but police confirmed that they've responded this. They're trying to 519 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:20,240 Speaker 1: investigate to see what's going on, but at this point 520 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: no criminal charges have been made. Wow. A family now 521 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 1: suing a Riviera Beach funeral home claiming the little girl's 522 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: body was left to decomposed. To doctor Kendall Crown's joining me, 523 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: Deputy Medical Examiner of Travis County, Texas in Austin, this 524 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: is only compounded by a parent, the grief of a 525 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: parent losing a child at a young age, just eleven 526 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 1: years old, a beautiful little girl. And now this did 527 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: you hear the way the mother described what the body 528 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: looked like when she managed to get to see the body. 529 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: What did that description tell you as to what happened? 530 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns. All the descriptions that I'm hearing is it's 531 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: moderate decompositions. So the body has been unrefrigerated or not 532 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: put in a cold environment for a period of time, 533 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 1: and the body is beginning to break it down. The 534 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: swelling that they're talking about of her head and her 535 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: body is from bacteria of creating gas, and that causes 536 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,560 Speaker 1: the body to bloat and swell up. And then the 537 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: mother referred to skin slippage. There's the epidermal and dermal 538 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:30,800 Speaker 1: layer of skins of the top part of the bottom 539 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: part of the skin, and they're attached by bombs. And 540 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: when these bombs begin to break down, the skin actually epidermis, 541 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,239 Speaker 1: or the surface of the skin, slips off and kind 542 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: of like a thin layer of tissue and it almost 543 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,879 Speaker 1: looks like a gloss. Oh man. Yeah, it's hard enough 544 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: dealing with grief, much less the loss of your child 545 00:37:53,480 --> 00:38:00,439 Speaker 1: and then this, But in this funeral home world, we're 546 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: just telling you the tip of the iceberg. Take a 547 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: listen to a former Uniontown funeral director who ultimately was 548 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: sent to prison for fraud. This is Pittsburgh KDKA two 549 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: news reporter Ross Giadatti. Because Marski pleaded guilty to swindling 550 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: almost a half a million dollars from many people over 551 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,080 Speaker 1: the age of sixty Today, of course, the sentence was 552 00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 1: read out, and many of the folks that he allegedly 553 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: took advantage of are not happy about it. After Stephen E. 554 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: Kazmorski was sentenced to up to eight years behind bars. 555 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: His victims' reactions to that sentencing ranged from shock to 556 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:42,879 Speaker 1: outrage and slap in the face. Cost a man's a thief. 557 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 1: He stole our money, probably should have been maybe more. 558 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 1: The fifty two year old disgraced Uniontown funeral director pleaded 559 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: guilty to bilking more than half a million dollars in 560 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 1: prepaid funeral arrangements from roughly one hundred and forty individuals. 561 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,280 Speaker 1: When he took the stand today, speaking to the victims, 562 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: he said that he wasn't a bad man, just a 563 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: bad businessman. Well, that is certainly putting perfume on the pig. 564 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,919 Speaker 1: What are prepaid funeral plans in a nutshell, Wendy Wayne, 565 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 1: or what are those? Prepaid funeral plans sometimes referred to 566 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: as pre need contracts are contracts made with a funeral 567 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 1: home by a individual, by an individual or by a 568 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: family wherein the family comes in and makes all of 569 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 1: the arrangements ahead of time. It's actually a wonderful thing 570 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: to do, takes the burden off of the family at 571 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 1: the time that the decedent passes, but the arrangements are 572 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: made and the funeral is paid for in advance. All 573 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,760 Speaker 1: of the states require that the funds related to those 574 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: contracts be addressed in one of just a handful of ways. 575 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: Either those funds have to be put into a trust 576 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,400 Speaker 1: account and maintained there until the decedent has passed, or 577 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 1: the funds must be pushed into an insurance policy. And 578 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,359 Speaker 1: then in a couple of states there are some other alternatives, 579 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: but primarily that's what it is, and that's how it was, 580 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: taking advantage of families, parents grieving at the time of 581 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: a loss, bilking them out of thousands of dollars and 582 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: according to this guy, who says he's just a bad businessman, 583 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: nearly a million dollars. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy 584 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: Grace crime story signing off Goodbye friend,