1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,876 Speaker 1: Pushkin. When SG Goodman released her debut album, Old Time 2 00:00:22,876 --> 00:00:25,556 Speaker 1: Feeling in twenty twenty, critics hailed it as a stunning 3 00:00:25,596 --> 00:00:28,956 Speaker 1: introduction to a bold new voice in Americana. Co Produced 4 00:00:28,996 --> 00:00:31,916 Speaker 1: with Jim James of My Morning Jacket, the album showcased 5 00:00:31,956 --> 00:00:35,676 Speaker 1: Goodman's ability to balance classic Southern sounds with progressive ideas, 6 00:00:35,876 --> 00:00:38,716 Speaker 1: earning widespread acclaim and landing on numerous year end best 7 00:00:38,716 --> 00:00:42,156 Speaker 1: of lists. SG was raised in Hickman, Kentucky, and a 8 00:00:42,196 --> 00:00:46,316 Speaker 1: family of roe crop farmers and storytellers. That upbringing shaped 9 00:00:46,316 --> 00:00:49,476 Speaker 1: her worldview and her songwriting. She sings about small town 10 00:00:49,516 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: living with both deep affection and clear eyed critique. Now, 11 00:00:53,556 --> 00:00:56,676 Speaker 1: with her third album, Planting by the Signs, Goodman continues 12 00:00:56,716 --> 00:01:00,756 Speaker 1: to mind rich themes like love, loss, and reconciliation. The 13 00:01:00,836 --> 00:01:03,236 Speaker 1: record is inspired in part by the ancient tradition of 14 00:01:03,276 --> 00:01:05,756 Speaker 1: farming according to the cycles of the Moon, a practice 15 00:01:05,796 --> 00:01:09,116 Speaker 1: passed down through generations in her family. On today's episode, 16 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:11,716 Speaker 1: Bruce Helen talks to SG Goodman about growing up in 17 00:01:11,756 --> 00:01:14,836 Speaker 1: a family of storytellers and how that tradition makes its 18 00:01:14,876 --> 00:01:18,556 Speaker 1: way into her songwriting. She also discusses co producing her 19 00:01:18,596 --> 00:01:21,036 Speaker 1: latest album and how she was able to make a bigger, 20 00:01:21,316 --> 00:01:26,076 Speaker 1: more atmospheric sounding record, and she performs a song I'm 21 00:01:26,116 --> 00:01:34,396 Speaker 1: in Love Live. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. 22 00:01:39,356 --> 00:01:41,476 Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Headlam with SG Goodman. 23 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:44,836 Speaker 2: Tell me about planting by the signs. 24 00:01:45,956 --> 00:01:49,996 Speaker 3: Well, Planting by the Signs, which is the title of 25 00:01:50,036 --> 00:01:54,076 Speaker 3: my album, is an ancient belief system, and in fact, 26 00:01:54,116 --> 00:01:56,076 Speaker 3: a lot of people. I guess there's been a lot 27 00:01:56,076 --> 00:01:59,316 Speaker 3: of different cultures that have looked to the moon and 28 00:01:59,356 --> 00:02:05,156 Speaker 3: the stars for guidance and planting by the signs, and 29 00:02:05,476 --> 00:02:08,676 Speaker 3: I guess a simple way to put it is when 30 00:02:08,756 --> 00:02:14,716 Speaker 3: people noticed that the moon affected water and everything that 31 00:02:15,356 --> 00:02:19,156 Speaker 3: was made of water would probably be affected by the moon. 32 00:02:19,316 --> 00:02:21,836 Speaker 2: Was this an idea you grew up with your dad 33 00:02:21,916 --> 00:02:22,476 Speaker 2: was a farmer. 34 00:02:24,236 --> 00:02:30,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of learned about this concept just over 35 00:02:30,196 --> 00:02:34,476 Speaker 3: the kitchen table old people in my community. And it 36 00:02:34,516 --> 00:02:38,556 Speaker 3: wasn't necessarily something that they pointed out that we believed in. 37 00:02:39,276 --> 00:02:43,396 Speaker 3: But for instance, I was weaned for my mother by 38 00:02:43,436 --> 00:02:46,436 Speaker 3: the signs. My brother cuts his hair by the signs. 39 00:02:47,716 --> 00:02:52,956 Speaker 3: I remember, you know, my grandmother saying things like the 40 00:02:52,996 --> 00:02:55,436 Speaker 3: signs are in the head, you'll if you pull a 41 00:02:55,476 --> 00:02:58,476 Speaker 3: tooth threat in you're gonna bleed more these types of things, 42 00:02:59,116 --> 00:03:02,556 Speaker 3: but in current day, because you know, I guess my 43 00:03:02,756 --> 00:03:06,516 Speaker 3: lineage of knowing this belief system would have came through 44 00:03:06,636 --> 00:03:12,076 Speaker 3: like probably Celtic, Irish ancestors, German whatever passed through the 45 00:03:12,116 --> 00:03:15,956 Speaker 3: Appalachi Mountains settled in the South, and these are things 46 00:03:15,956 --> 00:03:20,476 Speaker 3: that they still believed. But this was just kind of 47 00:03:20,476 --> 00:03:25,356 Speaker 3: a common practice and still people use this to this 48 00:03:25,476 --> 00:03:28,116 Speaker 3: day to plant and to do certain things. 49 00:03:28,996 --> 00:03:31,636 Speaker 2: What resonated for you when you were thinking of this 50 00:03:31,716 --> 00:03:32,956 Speaker 2: album and the song. 51 00:03:33,556 --> 00:03:37,996 Speaker 3: Well, I have five little nieces and a nephew, pretty young, 52 00:03:39,036 --> 00:03:42,676 Speaker 3: and I guess there's probably this moment for everybody when 53 00:03:42,676 --> 00:03:46,556 Speaker 3: you realize that you are going to be the one 54 00:03:46,596 --> 00:03:50,676 Speaker 3: who's now the storyteller of the family. I remember my 55 00:03:50,836 --> 00:03:54,476 Speaker 3: aunts and uncles and older people in my community telling 56 00:03:54,636 --> 00:03:59,076 Speaker 3: stories and kind of giving me a context of things. 57 00:03:59,476 --> 00:04:02,676 Speaker 3: And yeah, that was just kind of a little bit 58 00:04:02,716 --> 00:04:06,276 Speaker 3: of burden that I felt to do to make sure 59 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:11,796 Speaker 3: that my art reflected something and more substantial than me 60 00:04:12,156 --> 00:04:15,916 Speaker 3: just writing like a heartbreak song. You know, I mean, 61 00:04:16,676 --> 00:04:19,756 Speaker 3: if people were looking back at music in this current moment, 62 00:04:20,396 --> 00:04:24,276 Speaker 3: we could find a lot of heartbreak songs. But can 63 00:04:24,316 --> 00:04:29,876 Speaker 3: we find songs that help us, you know, hold onto 64 00:04:30,316 --> 00:04:34,156 Speaker 3: our history and kind of point to how our belief 65 00:04:34,196 --> 00:04:38,276 Speaker 3: systems have always changed over time. Maybe that would help 66 00:04:38,916 --> 00:04:39,876 Speaker 3: somewhere down the road. 67 00:04:40,436 --> 00:04:42,436 Speaker 2: Are there songwriters who do that for you? 68 00:04:43,596 --> 00:04:48,876 Speaker 3: Well, I would say that there are archivists that have 69 00:04:49,036 --> 00:04:50,596 Speaker 3: done that for me, you know. I think of like 70 00:04:50,676 --> 00:04:59,156 Speaker 3: Alan Lomax, and I think of how I've really enjoyed 71 00:04:59,196 --> 00:05:02,796 Speaker 3: listening to old field recordings and people who've gone into 72 00:05:02,836 --> 00:05:05,996 Speaker 3: different parts of the world and set up a little 73 00:05:06,556 --> 00:05:11,716 Speaker 3: tape recorder and have captured something, especially when it comes 74 00:05:11,796 --> 00:05:17,956 Speaker 3: to old traditional folk tunes and melodies and things. You 75 00:05:17,996 --> 00:05:22,556 Speaker 3: can see we're connected across history, especially when it comes 76 00:05:22,596 --> 00:05:24,476 Speaker 3: to musical traditions for sure. 77 00:05:25,236 --> 00:05:29,116 Speaker 2: And that's also a sound, that field recording sound. That's 78 00:05:29,156 --> 00:05:31,356 Speaker 2: something that finds its way into your albums. It finds 79 00:05:31,396 --> 00:05:34,596 Speaker 2: its way into this album, I think, yeah. 80 00:05:34,596 --> 00:05:37,796 Speaker 3: You know, I guess a better way to put what 81 00:05:38,036 --> 00:05:41,116 Speaker 3: made me want to write this album is I was 82 00:05:41,156 --> 00:05:47,356 Speaker 3: really interested in how stories are passed down, and one 83 00:05:47,476 --> 00:05:50,356 Speaker 3: thing that was important to me while making the album 84 00:05:50,716 --> 00:05:54,116 Speaker 3: was to represent a lot of different ways stories are 85 00:05:54,156 --> 00:05:57,396 Speaker 3: passed down. So that's one reason I included some field 86 00:05:57,436 --> 00:06:00,996 Speaker 3: recordings and the actual album. That's the reason I included 87 00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:08,316 Speaker 3: tattoos as my artwork that showcased, you know, little images 88 00:06:08,396 --> 00:06:10,836 Speaker 3: that show up in the album. Tattoos are a way 89 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:14,116 Speaker 3: that we actually put stories on our own bodies. You know. 90 00:06:14,796 --> 00:06:16,716 Speaker 2: Were there great storytellers in your family? 91 00:06:17,316 --> 00:06:18,196 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely? 92 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:19,996 Speaker 2: Who are the great storytellers? 93 00:06:20,436 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 3: My favorite storytellers would be my aunt Sally, And you know, 94 00:06:26,196 --> 00:06:30,636 Speaker 3: I think Southerners sometimes they have their little signature thing 95 00:06:30,676 --> 00:06:35,356 Speaker 3: that they say. I would say that if people who 96 00:06:35,396 --> 00:06:39,076 Speaker 3: are close to me, I tend to go, well, Comma 97 00:06:39,676 --> 00:06:43,236 Speaker 3: and then go into it. Well. My aunt Sally, her 98 00:06:43,316 --> 00:06:46,876 Speaker 3: husband my uncle is named Walter, and the way she 99 00:06:47,036 --> 00:06:50,516 Speaker 3: always starts a story is, well, I laughed and told 100 00:06:50,556 --> 00:06:54,756 Speaker 3: Walter and whatever it is, and so she always says that, 101 00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:57,556 Speaker 3: and that's, you know, it's something I'll never forget. But 102 00:06:57,636 --> 00:07:00,916 Speaker 3: it's the it's really kind of the cadence and the 103 00:07:00,956 --> 00:07:04,676 Speaker 3: flow of a story that I think is you know, 104 00:07:04,756 --> 00:07:07,876 Speaker 3: one of the most special things about a Southern story 105 00:07:07,996 --> 00:07:10,396 Speaker 3: because they're going to be long, they're going to be winding, 106 00:07:11,396 --> 00:07:13,876 Speaker 3: and it's an art form for sure. But yeah, I 107 00:07:13,916 --> 00:07:15,676 Speaker 3: was raised with best I'd say I was raised with 108 00:07:15,676 --> 00:07:16,636 Speaker 3: the best storytellers. 109 00:07:16,676 --> 00:07:18,476 Speaker 2: Are you very conscious of that. When you sit down 110 00:07:18,556 --> 00:07:21,236 Speaker 2: to write, are you thinking of telling stories in a 111 00:07:21,276 --> 00:07:21,836 Speaker 2: certain way. 112 00:07:22,916 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 3: I feel like it's something that comes kind of natural 113 00:07:26,756 --> 00:07:31,156 Speaker 3: to me, and also I'm a little bit sometimes too 114 00:07:31,236 --> 00:07:34,876 Speaker 3: aware of it and self conscious of it. So, for instance, 115 00:07:34,916 --> 00:07:39,476 Speaker 3: in this album, my song's Snapping Turtle, it is a 116 00:07:39,516 --> 00:07:42,756 Speaker 3: real stream of consciousness, but it is a story and 117 00:07:42,796 --> 00:07:46,436 Speaker 3: they do connect. But it is a very Southern story 118 00:07:46,996 --> 00:07:49,996 Speaker 3: because I go from talking about kids in a Snapping 119 00:07:49,996 --> 00:07:53,436 Speaker 3: Turtle too all of a sudden, we're not hearing about 120 00:07:53,436 --> 00:07:57,316 Speaker 3: a snapping turtle anymore for quite a while, and that's 121 00:07:57,396 --> 00:07:59,236 Speaker 3: kind of a Southern story. And then at the very 122 00:07:59,316 --> 00:08:01,436 Speaker 3: end you wrap it together and it all makes sense, 123 00:08:01,476 --> 00:08:03,476 Speaker 3: and you might have sat on somebody's porch for an 124 00:08:03,476 --> 00:08:05,996 Speaker 3: hour and a half, but you know it's a whole 125 00:08:06,036 --> 00:08:08,796 Speaker 3: cohesive story, but it might take you a minute to 126 00:08:08,796 --> 00:08:14,116 Speaker 3: get there. So I did find myself really leaning into 127 00:08:14,676 --> 00:08:18,076 Speaker 3: Southern storytelling in this album on several songs. 128 00:08:18,916 --> 00:08:23,316 Speaker 2: These are character driven stories often, and the character in 129 00:08:23,396 --> 00:08:27,476 Speaker 2: Snapping Turtle is whether there's the narrator and there's Leanne. 130 00:08:28,596 --> 00:08:30,956 Speaker 2: So when you were writing that, were you writing the 131 00:08:31,076 --> 00:08:34,836 Speaker 2: Leanne part and then the Snapping Turtle which is almost 132 00:08:34,876 --> 00:08:37,996 Speaker 2: an image that starts it. Yeah, how do you put 133 00:08:37,996 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 2: those things together in your mind? 134 00:08:40,716 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 3: Well, actually, the line I guess that started the song 135 00:08:45,676 --> 00:08:50,676 Speaker 3: Snapping Turtle was something that I actually heard when I 136 00:08:50,796 --> 00:08:55,956 Speaker 3: was maybe twelve or thirteen, where a girl that I 137 00:08:55,996 --> 00:08:59,476 Speaker 3: grew up with actually came to school after we were 138 00:08:59,716 --> 00:09:04,116 Speaker 3: back from summer to tell us, you know, our friend group, 139 00:09:04,196 --> 00:09:07,756 Speaker 3: that she had spent the whole summer in Paris, which 140 00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:10,996 Speaker 3: was Paris, Tennessee, and it was just like a little 141 00:09:10,996 --> 00:09:15,916 Speaker 3: Paris that had an Eiffel Tower and everything. But I 142 00:09:15,956 --> 00:09:20,516 Speaker 3: remember being in college several years later, I was in 143 00:09:21,116 --> 00:09:25,276 Speaker 3: a little short story writing class and that image came 144 00:09:25,356 --> 00:09:28,236 Speaker 3: up to me, and I thought it was really an 145 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:37,836 Speaker 3: interesting way to think about worldview, maybe economic status, opportunity, fate, 146 00:09:38,276 --> 00:09:43,036 Speaker 3: all these things, just in the fact that what's really 147 00:09:43,116 --> 00:09:48,676 Speaker 3: sad is that my friend back in grade school to 148 00:09:48,796 --> 00:09:52,836 Speaker 3: this day I know, really doesn't know the difference of Paris, 149 00:09:52,876 --> 00:09:55,996 Speaker 3: France and Paris, Tennessee. And it's not coming from a 150 00:09:56,076 --> 00:10:03,076 Speaker 3: judgmental place. It's just saying something really true about where 151 00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:08,476 Speaker 3: I come from and about how I have been trying 152 00:10:08,516 --> 00:10:14,316 Speaker 3: to process us how different people are growing up right 153 00:10:14,356 --> 00:10:19,956 Speaker 3: beside you and have been handed very different hands than others. 154 00:10:20,716 --> 00:10:23,916 Speaker 3: So that line started that many years ago and reappeared 155 00:10:23,956 --> 00:10:27,436 Speaker 3: here in this song. And the snapping turtle line that 156 00:10:27,556 --> 00:10:30,996 Speaker 3: was also a lived experience from childhood. 157 00:10:32,236 --> 00:10:35,156 Speaker 2: When does that snapping turtle? When does that happen? What's 158 00:10:35,196 --> 00:10:37,876 Speaker 2: the realization that you can put those together? 159 00:10:40,196 --> 00:10:44,196 Speaker 3: I think really the moment when I realized that the 160 00:10:44,316 --> 00:10:52,916 Speaker 3: snapping turtle was lee Anne was when I realized the 161 00:10:52,956 --> 00:10:57,676 Speaker 3: protagonist or you know, the narrators I guess purpose in 162 00:10:57,716 --> 00:11:00,716 Speaker 3: that song, which was that they were they were playing 163 00:11:00,876 --> 00:11:04,156 Speaker 3: God when I say, when I raised my hand, I 164 00:11:04,196 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 3: brought down the wrath of God himself. You know, I'm 165 00:11:09,116 --> 00:11:16,196 Speaker 3: I'm really really intrigued with, you know, religion, free will, 166 00:11:16,276 --> 00:11:21,116 Speaker 3: but mostly predestination. If I was honest with myself, I 167 00:11:21,156 --> 00:11:23,916 Speaker 3: wasn't a philosophy major because I was going to take 168 00:11:23,916 --> 00:11:26,636 Speaker 3: the LSATs and be a lawyer. I think I was 169 00:11:26,876 --> 00:11:33,996 Speaker 3: obsessed with the question of predestination, and I took every 170 00:11:34,076 --> 00:11:38,916 Speaker 3: course I could to understand more about this because it 171 00:11:39,036 --> 00:11:42,236 Speaker 3: was a really important question for me in the context 172 00:11:42,236 --> 00:11:44,636 Speaker 3: of how I was raised. I was raised Southern Baptist, 173 00:11:46,156 --> 00:11:50,436 Speaker 3: I wasn't raised a Calvinist necessarily, but I was intrigued 174 00:11:50,476 --> 00:11:52,756 Speaker 3: by it. I've always been really weird into doctrine and 175 00:11:52,796 --> 00:11:56,156 Speaker 3: things like that. So the idea that an all knowing 176 00:11:56,276 --> 00:12:00,996 Speaker 3: God would know someone's fate and is said to be 177 00:12:01,076 --> 00:12:05,076 Speaker 3: the creator that has to bother you when you see 178 00:12:05,316 --> 00:12:06,716 Speaker 3: things that don't seem fair. 179 00:12:07,316 --> 00:12:10,716 Speaker 2: There is a line in that song small Towns where 180 00:12:10,756 --> 00:12:15,116 Speaker 2: my mind gets stuck. You grew up in a small town. 181 00:12:15,156 --> 00:12:18,716 Speaker 2: You very much identify still with that town. Tell me 182 00:12:18,796 --> 00:12:21,956 Speaker 2: about that line in the context of your growing up. 183 00:12:22,796 --> 00:12:29,316 Speaker 3: You know, especially around how I moved from talking about 184 00:12:29,316 --> 00:12:33,276 Speaker 3: the snapping turtle to going into le end. The way 185 00:12:33,476 --> 00:12:39,516 Speaker 3: this song kind of folded for me really started when 186 00:12:39,556 --> 00:12:44,436 Speaker 3: I started therapy. A line that didn't make it in 187 00:12:44,476 --> 00:12:47,396 Speaker 3: this song was don't look at me when I'm crying. 188 00:12:47,876 --> 00:12:50,836 Speaker 3: I had this chorus and actual chorus that was in 189 00:12:50,876 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 3: this song, and I didn't I scrapped it. But when 190 00:12:55,556 --> 00:12:59,436 Speaker 3: I first started therapy, I wasn't raised in an emotional family. 191 00:12:59,476 --> 00:13:02,516 Speaker 3: You know, we didn't cry. I've gotten a little bit 192 00:13:02,596 --> 00:13:06,556 Speaker 3: better at crying publicly in the last maybe like four 193 00:13:06,636 --> 00:13:09,636 Speaker 3: years of my life. But I remember being in this 194 00:13:09,716 --> 00:13:14,836 Speaker 3: therapy session and she something came, but she had me 195 00:13:14,916 --> 00:13:18,836 Speaker 3: do this thing eft this tapping stuff, and I just 196 00:13:18,876 --> 00:13:22,436 Speaker 3: started crying, and I was so unbelievably embarrassed, and of 197 00:13:22,476 --> 00:13:27,036 Speaker 3: course because instead of allowing myself to be vulnerable, I 198 00:13:27,116 --> 00:13:30,236 Speaker 3: just got angry and I was yelling at this therapist 199 00:13:30,316 --> 00:13:33,756 Speaker 3: and saying like, don't look at me right now, like 200 00:13:33,836 --> 00:13:36,396 Speaker 3: why are you staring at me when I'm doing this? 201 00:13:37,196 --> 00:13:41,876 Speaker 3: And that led me kind of to write this entire 202 00:13:42,036 --> 00:13:46,156 Speaker 3: song because I look at this song as a looking 203 00:13:46,316 --> 00:13:50,876 Speaker 3: back and processing the past and context of my life 204 00:13:51,676 --> 00:13:52,196 Speaker 3: growing up. 205 00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:54,316 Speaker 2: Was the church your first exposure to music? 206 00:13:55,436 --> 00:13:59,476 Speaker 3: Definitely, yeah, I would say the church was was where 207 00:13:59,516 --> 00:14:02,756 Speaker 3: I went to three concerts a week. But there was 208 00:14:02,796 --> 00:14:07,756 Speaker 3: also even though not everyone in my family was musical, 209 00:14:08,396 --> 00:14:11,876 Speaker 3: I think it was a very commonplace that every house 210 00:14:11,916 --> 00:14:15,556 Speaker 3: had a piano and someone in the family could play. 211 00:14:16,076 --> 00:14:19,156 Speaker 3: And I do remember, you know, my aunt Sally could play, 212 00:14:19,556 --> 00:14:24,436 Speaker 3: my brothers could play different ones. And I remember very 213 00:14:24,476 --> 00:14:27,916 Speaker 3: as I was a really small child when my dad 214 00:14:27,956 --> 00:14:30,996 Speaker 3: and his brothers still farm together. They had a fish 215 00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:33,876 Speaker 3: fry at our at our family farm shop and had 216 00:14:33,916 --> 00:14:37,276 Speaker 3: a string band there and that was probably I was, 217 00:14:37,796 --> 00:14:40,716 Speaker 3: you know, three four years old at that time, so 218 00:14:40,756 --> 00:14:43,396 Speaker 3: I've been around it. But church is probably the biggest 219 00:14:44,236 --> 00:14:45,236 Speaker 3: musical influence. 220 00:14:45,356 --> 00:14:47,196 Speaker 2: Now, when you say there were concerts at church, were 221 00:14:47,196 --> 00:14:49,396 Speaker 2: these secular music concerts or were these old you? 222 00:14:49,476 --> 00:14:49,636 Speaker 4: No? 223 00:14:49,996 --> 00:14:52,076 Speaker 3: I just make a joke because I get asked a 224 00:14:52,116 --> 00:14:53,676 Speaker 3: lot of time, like what was your first concert? And 225 00:14:53,756 --> 00:14:56,476 Speaker 3: I said, well, I went to three a week. Yeah, okay, 226 00:14:56,996 --> 00:14:59,276 Speaker 3: oh no, there was never secular music. There wasn't even 227 00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:02,676 Speaker 3: you weren't allowed to have. I didn't grow up in 228 00:15:02,676 --> 00:15:04,956 Speaker 3: a church where you had like a drum set or 229 00:15:05,236 --> 00:15:08,876 Speaker 3: there was nothing like that. They believed that anything passed 230 00:15:08,916 --> 00:15:12,716 Speaker 3: may in organ You might have been carried away by 231 00:15:13,996 --> 00:15:17,276 Speaker 3: the energy, and we wanted to stay focused. 232 00:15:17,556 --> 00:15:22,236 Speaker 2: Okay, when when were you first carried away by the energy? 233 00:15:22,316 --> 00:15:25,396 Speaker 2: What music did you hear that made you think this 234 00:15:25,476 --> 00:15:26,436 Speaker 2: is something I want to do. 235 00:15:28,516 --> 00:15:31,316 Speaker 3: My dad was a big music lover, he still is, 236 00:15:31,636 --> 00:15:35,596 Speaker 3: and being in such a rural area, we spent a 237 00:15:35,596 --> 00:15:38,516 Speaker 3: lot of time in the truck and tractor cabs and 238 00:15:38,556 --> 00:15:41,676 Speaker 3: all that. He loves Super Tramp. You know that song 239 00:15:41,756 --> 00:15:45,676 Speaker 3: take the Long Way Home? Sure, Okay, the harmonica. I 240 00:15:45,756 --> 00:15:48,996 Speaker 3: just remember my dad just cranking that up in his 241 00:15:49,076 --> 00:15:52,236 Speaker 3: old Chevy. So I guess what people are. What I've 242 00:15:52,316 --> 00:15:55,196 Speaker 3: thought of is like classic rock. My dad was really 243 00:15:55,236 --> 00:15:59,356 Speaker 3: into that, and I had a neighbor who was really 244 00:15:59,396 --> 00:16:05,516 Speaker 3: into old country. This one of our landowners wives that 245 00:16:05,556 --> 00:16:08,876 Speaker 3: we took care of as she aged. But she would 246 00:16:08,876 --> 00:16:11,836 Speaker 3: get on her piano and play old Hank Williams and 247 00:16:12,756 --> 00:16:15,876 Speaker 3: Lefty Frizell and different different songs like that for me. 248 00:16:16,516 --> 00:16:19,516 Speaker 3: And that's how I was introduced to old country. 249 00:16:19,796 --> 00:16:20,636 Speaker 2: And did you like it? 250 00:16:20,996 --> 00:16:24,516 Speaker 3: Oh? I loved it. And I remember finding Miss Betty 251 00:16:24,796 --> 00:16:28,676 Speaker 3: was this lady's name, and my job. Since I think 252 00:16:28,716 --> 00:16:30,996 Speaker 3: I was probably about ten years old, I started cleaning 253 00:16:31,036 --> 00:16:33,596 Speaker 3: her house and she lived right across the street from 254 00:16:33,636 --> 00:16:37,636 Speaker 3: my parents. Miss Betty couldn't sing, God bless her. But 255 00:16:37,796 --> 00:16:40,596 Speaker 3: when she'd sit down at that piano and start singing, 256 00:16:40,796 --> 00:16:43,156 Speaker 3: you know, I was walking after midnight, you know, it 257 00:16:43,236 --> 00:16:45,596 Speaker 3: was nice. I loved the song, but Miss Betty couldn't sing. 258 00:16:45,676 --> 00:16:49,196 Speaker 3: So when I found a little CD of some old 259 00:16:49,236 --> 00:16:53,316 Speaker 3: country classics at Walmart, I could not wait to take 260 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:56,276 Speaker 3: my little CD player over there for Miss Betty. And 261 00:16:56,476 --> 00:16:58,876 Speaker 3: she enjoyed it, and I enjoyed our time a lot 262 00:16:58,916 --> 00:16:59,356 Speaker 3: better too. 263 00:16:59,916 --> 00:17:02,356 Speaker 2: You know, we'll be. 264 00:17:02,316 --> 00:17:04,716 Speaker 1: Back with more from SG Goodman after the break. 265 00:17:08,796 --> 00:17:13,636 Speaker 2: There are some Kentucky writers that right. Character songs. I 266 00:17:13,636 --> 00:17:15,196 Speaker 2: thought of them when I was listening to her out 267 00:17:15,276 --> 00:17:18,316 Speaker 2: like Tom t Hall oh yeah, and Keith Whitley, Who's 268 00:17:18,996 --> 00:17:21,356 Speaker 2: and a little Loretta Lynn. I have to say, oh yeah, 269 00:17:21,476 --> 00:17:23,996 Speaker 2: she's got strong characters in her song. It's usually the narrator. 270 00:17:24,356 --> 00:17:25,436 Speaker 2: Were they influences on. 271 00:17:25,476 --> 00:17:30,516 Speaker 3: You, I mean, of course I would imagine that. I 272 00:17:30,636 --> 00:17:34,276 Speaker 3: deeply appreciate what they do. Yeah, I think when it 273 00:17:34,316 --> 00:17:39,556 Speaker 3: comes to character development, I have to give tribute to 274 00:17:39,636 --> 00:17:43,876 Speaker 3: my writing mentor. His name's del Ray Phillips. He was 275 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:48,956 Speaker 3: a short story writer Pulitzerprise nominee actually, and I was 276 00:17:49,036 --> 00:17:51,316 Speaker 3: lucky enough to study under him in college and then 277 00:17:51,476 --> 00:17:56,516 Speaker 3: we've remained very good friends. You know. He's the one 278 00:17:56,516 --> 00:18:01,316 Speaker 3: who taught me to really respect your characters. In fact, 279 00:18:01,796 --> 00:18:05,636 Speaker 3: I remember he was a big smoker up until recently. Actually, 280 00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:10,516 Speaker 3: our college ram was on the first floor of this building, 281 00:18:10,676 --> 00:18:14,516 Speaker 3: and he'd go outside and teach us through the window 282 00:18:15,556 --> 00:18:20,596 Speaker 3: while he Jane smoke, okay, And I remember him yelling 283 00:18:20,596 --> 00:18:24,356 Speaker 3: through the window one day that we were not good 284 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:27,156 Speaker 3: enough writers to kill our characters, and that he better 285 00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:31,156 Speaker 3: not have any papers turned in where somebody killed off somebody. 286 00:18:31,316 --> 00:18:34,076 Speaker 3: He said, you got to earn that wow. And he 287 00:18:34,156 --> 00:18:36,596 Speaker 3: also said something to me that made me think about 288 00:18:36,676 --> 00:18:41,556 Speaker 3: characters differently. He said, when you die, like nobody's going 289 00:18:41,596 --> 00:18:44,556 Speaker 3: to remember your name, but they might remember your characters, 290 00:18:45,076 --> 00:18:47,276 Speaker 3: and that's how people actually live. 291 00:18:47,156 --> 00:18:51,396 Speaker 2: On tell me about the song, Michael told me, it's. 292 00:18:51,276 --> 00:18:54,756 Speaker 3: A special song for me. I lost a kind of 293 00:18:54,756 --> 00:18:58,636 Speaker 3: a father figure called himurried dad, Mike, and he was 294 00:18:58,916 --> 00:19:03,436 Speaker 3: super special to me. And this song actually kind of 295 00:19:03,436 --> 00:19:07,476 Speaker 3: revolves around his death. But who I'm speaking to in 296 00:19:07,556 --> 00:19:12,036 Speaker 3: this song is not my it's actually a close friend 297 00:19:12,036 --> 00:19:16,636 Speaker 3: of mine bandmate, actually co produced this record, someone who 298 00:19:16,636 --> 00:19:20,556 Speaker 3: I've collaborated with for you know, thirteen fourteen years now. 299 00:19:21,476 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 3: But at the time that Mike passed away, we were 300 00:19:25,556 --> 00:19:28,196 Speaker 3: about on our second year of not speaking with each other. 301 00:19:28,236 --> 00:19:31,556 Speaker 3: We weren't on speaking terms. We had a little falling out, 302 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:34,516 Speaker 3: and that wasn't our first falling out. We've gone a 303 00:19:34,596 --> 00:19:37,796 Speaker 3: year without speaking prior to that. So maybe in another 304 00:19:37,876 --> 00:19:41,116 Speaker 3: like five years, will you know, something might happen. We'll 305 00:19:41,156 --> 00:19:46,396 Speaker 3: do that. But it's because he's a chosen brother. Sometimes 306 00:19:46,436 --> 00:19:50,116 Speaker 3: siblings fight and we were just in our moment in 307 00:19:50,196 --> 00:19:54,076 Speaker 3: that time. But when Mike passed away, we reached out 308 00:19:54,116 --> 00:19:57,876 Speaker 3: to each other. And I think sometimes death gives you 309 00:19:57,916 --> 00:20:02,596 Speaker 3: a good reason to put your bullshit aside and say 310 00:20:02,916 --> 00:20:06,556 Speaker 3: I love you and I'm glad we're here together. And 311 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:09,756 Speaker 3: now look what's happened. You know, the song is on 312 00:20:09,836 --> 00:20:15,316 Speaker 3: the record. Matt was kind enough and wanted to collaborate 313 00:20:15,396 --> 00:20:19,636 Speaker 3: with me again, and I believe in his gifts so much. 314 00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:22,956 Speaker 3: I as going to be a co producer and it's 315 00:20:22,996 --> 00:20:26,596 Speaker 3: been a really great way to reconcile. And now we 316 00:20:26,676 --> 00:20:27,956 Speaker 3: have this to show for it too. 317 00:20:28,596 --> 00:20:29,276 Speaker 2: That's wonderful. 318 00:20:29,356 --> 00:20:29,716 Speaker 3: Yeah. 319 00:20:29,756 --> 00:20:32,116 Speaker 2: Now, I think when you're young, everybody thinks, gee, why 320 00:20:32,236 --> 00:20:35,436 Speaker 2: the Beatles break up so soon? And then anytime you're 321 00:20:35,436 --> 00:20:37,876 Speaker 2: in a creative endeavor with other people, you're like, how 322 00:20:37,876 --> 00:20:38,996 Speaker 2: did they last so long? 323 00:20:39,396 --> 00:20:42,116 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think there's something special. You know. A 324 00:20:42,156 --> 00:20:46,676 Speaker 3: friend told me once, She's like, sometimes the only thing 325 00:20:47,436 --> 00:20:53,116 Speaker 3: a person can imagine is having been wronged. Sometimes when 326 00:20:53,116 --> 00:20:57,916 Speaker 3: you don't have the experience of of reconciling with people, 327 00:20:58,076 --> 00:21:00,596 Speaker 3: you can't imagine what's on the other side. Like, it's 328 00:21:00,716 --> 00:21:07,556 Speaker 3: it's safer to remain in hard feelings than it is 329 00:21:07,636 --> 00:21:12,036 Speaker 3: to be vulnerable and imagine what it could be if 330 00:21:12,036 --> 00:21:16,036 Speaker 3: you reconciled. Because sometimes you can't imagine what that would 331 00:21:16,116 --> 00:21:19,516 Speaker 3: look like. That was a part of this album for sure. 332 00:21:20,356 --> 00:21:21,956 Speaker 2: Now you write with him as well? 333 00:21:22,036 --> 00:21:24,956 Speaker 3: Is that Yeah, we've written a few things. He ended 334 00:21:24,996 --> 00:21:27,556 Speaker 3: up out. We were fighting, not in a bad way, 335 00:21:27,596 --> 00:21:30,676 Speaker 3: but you know, we fight all the time. We're both 336 00:21:30,756 --> 00:21:34,516 Speaker 3: really passionate people. But I had a song on the 337 00:21:34,556 --> 00:21:39,356 Speaker 3: album Satellite. He was making suggestions for some the chord 338 00:21:39,436 --> 00:21:43,836 Speaker 3: progression in that song, and I'm pretty hard headed, but 339 00:21:44,436 --> 00:21:47,636 Speaker 3: Matt was right, so he helped me with the music 340 00:21:47,676 --> 00:21:48,116 Speaker 3: on that one. 341 00:21:48,556 --> 00:21:51,516 Speaker 2: Okay, what's your typical writing process? How do you write? 342 00:21:51,756 --> 00:21:55,596 Speaker 3: I wish I knew, I really do. You know a 343 00:21:55,596 --> 00:21:58,556 Speaker 3: few of the songs we've already talked about, they've come 344 00:21:58,596 --> 00:22:02,476 Speaker 3: together over years, and what I've found works best for 345 00:22:02,596 --> 00:22:07,236 Speaker 3: me is to always be willing to just keep notes, 346 00:22:07,796 --> 00:22:10,356 Speaker 3: to not overthink. You know, I don't feel like you 347 00:22:10,436 --> 00:22:12,956 Speaker 3: have to have a song written every day to be 348 00:22:12,996 --> 00:22:16,196 Speaker 3: a songwriter. I don't write like that. Do I write 349 00:22:16,196 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 3: every day? I would say I do, But what I 350 00:22:18,716 --> 00:22:22,556 Speaker 3: consider writing every day might be just humming a little 351 00:22:22,596 --> 00:22:27,436 Speaker 3: melody into a recorder or my phone, or writing down 352 00:22:27,596 --> 00:22:32,556 Speaker 3: a word that I think is interesting. And I think 353 00:22:32,636 --> 00:22:35,236 Speaker 3: that allows me to always be in a creative state, 354 00:22:35,356 --> 00:22:38,596 Speaker 3: but as far as having a fully finished product, I 355 00:22:38,596 --> 00:22:39,476 Speaker 3: don't write like that. 356 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:42,516 Speaker 2: Does there come a point where you've got a collection 357 00:22:42,556 --> 00:22:45,316 Speaker 2: of images things you want to put together and you 358 00:22:45,356 --> 00:22:48,476 Speaker 2: do have to sit down and work. 359 00:22:48,316 --> 00:22:52,516 Speaker 3: It out well, like, for instance, with this album. I 360 00:22:52,596 --> 00:22:56,796 Speaker 3: knew when I knew that I wanted to write about 361 00:22:56,796 --> 00:22:59,996 Speaker 3: Planting by the Signs, and I knew that my goal 362 00:23:00,316 --> 00:23:03,196 Speaker 3: was I didn't want to write a college dissertation. I 363 00:23:03,236 --> 00:23:07,836 Speaker 3: wanted to write songs that have picked apart and looked 364 00:23:07,836 --> 00:23:13,116 Speaker 3: at individually, could stand alone by themself. But I knew 365 00:23:13,156 --> 00:23:16,996 Speaker 3: that I really wanted to try to write a cohesive 366 00:23:17,876 --> 00:23:20,516 Speaker 3: song that would lead back to Planting by the Signs. 367 00:23:20,556 --> 00:23:22,956 Speaker 3: So the way I dealt with that was I read 368 00:23:23,116 --> 00:23:26,356 Speaker 3: everything I could get my hands on. I watched everything 369 00:23:26,356 --> 00:23:28,276 Speaker 3: I could get my hands on, I could talk to 370 00:23:28,876 --> 00:23:32,516 Speaker 3: everywhere I was. I was even well Jason isbel in 371 00:23:32,676 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 3: Europe last fall. Late last fall, I was in Scotland 372 00:23:37,996 --> 00:23:42,196 Speaker 3: and I asked the the coffee guys, like you happen 373 00:23:42,276 --> 00:23:45,916 Speaker 3: to know anybody who's into moon planting or planting by 374 00:23:45,956 --> 00:23:49,396 Speaker 3: the Signs around here? And he did, isn't that cool? 375 00:23:49,516 --> 00:23:49,756 Speaker 2: Wow? 376 00:23:49,916 --> 00:23:53,676 Speaker 3: So I went to this, yeah, this little nursery and 377 00:23:54,236 --> 00:23:59,836 Speaker 3: asked around. I knew, even if I couldn't recall, you know, 378 00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:02,836 Speaker 3: every single sign of the zodiac or whatever, if I've 379 00:24:02,876 --> 00:24:06,236 Speaker 3: read enough and just entrenched myself in it, that it 380 00:24:06,276 --> 00:24:09,956 Speaker 3: would come out in my writing. And it did, you know, 381 00:24:10,916 --> 00:24:14,236 Speaker 3: it did, and it wasn't in a natural way. When 382 00:24:14,276 --> 00:24:17,916 Speaker 3: it came time to actually write it, the details were there. 383 00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:22,276 Speaker 2: You do have a song called fire Sign, which I did, 384 00:24:22,596 --> 00:24:25,876 Speaker 2: seems to be the most explicit reference to that kind 385 00:24:25,916 --> 00:24:28,876 Speaker 2: of thinking. How, for example, does it appear in Solitaire, 386 00:24:28,916 --> 00:24:31,276 Speaker 2: which I is probably my favorite song on the album. 387 00:24:31,396 --> 00:24:32,356 Speaker 3: Oh well, thank you? 388 00:24:33,116 --> 00:24:33,436 Speaker 5: Well? 389 00:24:34,036 --> 00:24:37,836 Speaker 3: Have you ever noticed how a deck of cards has 390 00:24:37,876 --> 00:24:44,356 Speaker 3: four suits? Right, there's four seasons. How many weeks are 391 00:24:44,356 --> 00:24:46,636 Speaker 3: in a year. It's how many cards are in a deck. 392 00:24:47,556 --> 00:24:54,476 Speaker 3: It's set up actually to mimic a calendar and your 393 00:24:54,556 --> 00:24:58,876 Speaker 3: experience passing through a year. In order to live by 394 00:24:58,876 --> 00:25:01,396 Speaker 3: the belief of planting by the signs, you have to 395 00:25:01,436 --> 00:25:05,396 Speaker 3: be aware and be able to tell what could possibly 396 00:25:05,436 --> 00:25:08,836 Speaker 3: happen in the future by looking at the past. And 397 00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:12,156 Speaker 3: so so for me, that song is about seasons that 398 00:25:12,236 --> 00:25:15,396 Speaker 3: have passed you. Now, that's the way I would make sense. 399 00:25:15,196 --> 00:25:18,356 Speaker 2: Of it, and there's a beautiful line it's about betting 400 00:25:18,396 --> 00:25:21,116 Speaker 2: against yourself and I don't remember the precise line. What 401 00:25:21,196 --> 00:25:21,356 Speaker 2: is it? 402 00:25:21,556 --> 00:25:26,316 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's Lords, You're gonna lose if you bet against yourself. 403 00:25:26,356 --> 00:25:29,876 Speaker 3: Because the song starts out Solitaire is the only game 404 00:25:30,076 --> 00:25:33,316 Speaker 3: where you don't need nobody's help. The Lord You're gonna 405 00:25:33,356 --> 00:25:38,196 Speaker 3: lose if you bet against yourself? Right because the chorus, 406 00:25:38,596 --> 00:25:42,076 Speaker 3: you know, back to actually Miss Betty and Hank, Hank 407 00:25:42,236 --> 00:25:47,236 Speaker 3: Senior teaching me about, you know, some of the greats. 408 00:25:47,436 --> 00:25:49,956 Speaker 3: He has this song lost on the River, and being 409 00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:52,396 Speaker 3: that I was raised on learned how to you know, 410 00:25:53,156 --> 00:25:56,636 Speaker 3: ski on the Mississippi River. I thought when Hank was 411 00:25:56,676 --> 00:25:59,476 Speaker 3: talking about being lost on the river that he was 412 00:25:59,516 --> 00:26:03,956 Speaker 3: talking about a physical river. Well, no, years later, when 413 00:26:03,956 --> 00:26:06,356 Speaker 3: I learned how to play poker, which I'm terrible at, 414 00:26:06,476 --> 00:26:09,036 Speaker 3: you know, I did. I was a second one stand 415 00:26:09,236 --> 00:26:12,676 Speaker 3: in my first game, but apparently that's beginner's luck. But 416 00:26:13,196 --> 00:26:16,356 Speaker 3: we were playing Texas Hold Them, and Hank SR. Was 417 00:26:16,396 --> 00:26:21,236 Speaker 3: talking about the river in Texas Hold Them. So I 418 00:26:21,316 --> 00:26:26,316 Speaker 3: went from talking about Solitaire to where, yes, you were 419 00:26:26,596 --> 00:26:30,596 Speaker 3: a you're playing by yourself? Where the river I'm speaking of? 420 00:26:30,716 --> 00:26:34,636 Speaker 3: And my song Solitaire is also It's Hank's River, It's 421 00:26:34,716 --> 00:26:37,836 Speaker 3: It's the River in Texas. Hold Them where you Can 422 00:26:37,876 --> 00:26:38,476 Speaker 3: Lose it all. 423 00:26:38,876 --> 00:26:44,476 Speaker 2: So much of that song seems informed by church. M Yeah, 424 00:26:44,516 --> 00:26:46,996 Speaker 2: it's it's I think as close as you get to 425 00:26:47,116 --> 00:26:49,596 Speaker 2: a hymn on the album. 426 00:26:49,756 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 3: Yeah, I could see that for sure. 427 00:26:51,356 --> 00:26:53,116 Speaker 2: Were you conscious of that when you were writing? 428 00:26:54,956 --> 00:26:58,436 Speaker 3: I think this is another example of how, you know 429 00:26:58,716 --> 00:27:03,116 Speaker 3: how I just said that the images and details of 430 00:27:03,356 --> 00:27:06,396 Speaker 3: planting by the signs would come if I just immersed 431 00:27:06,436 --> 00:27:09,036 Speaker 3: myself in the material enough to where I didn't have 432 00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:12,836 Speaker 3: to think about it. I think writing a melody like 433 00:27:13,276 --> 00:27:19,036 Speaker 3: is that I did on Solitaire, it's just an example 434 00:27:19,116 --> 00:27:22,636 Speaker 3: of how I've been immersed in that world, you know, 435 00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:29,396 Speaker 3: from such a young age, where those old types of melodies, 436 00:27:30,076 --> 00:27:32,636 Speaker 3: I'm never going to be able to separate myself from them. 437 00:27:33,116 --> 00:27:35,796 Speaker 3: They've gone too deep. You know. 438 00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:40,276 Speaker 2: There are I mentioned there are biblical illusions throughout the 439 00:27:41,556 --> 00:27:44,716 Speaker 2: more so than in your other records. I think. You know, 440 00:27:44,836 --> 00:27:47,436 Speaker 2: I saw the dabble and this incredible last song talk 441 00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:48,516 Speaker 2: about that song. 442 00:27:49,036 --> 00:27:52,876 Speaker 3: Heaven Song, Heaven Song. Well, you know, I think at 443 00:27:52,876 --> 00:27:57,596 Speaker 3: the beginning of this we were talking about storytelling and that 444 00:27:57,756 --> 00:28:00,956 Speaker 3: is a song where I really just gave myself full 445 00:28:00,996 --> 00:28:03,916 Speaker 3: liberty to talk as long as I wanted. It's almost 446 00:28:03,996 --> 00:28:10,276 Speaker 3: nine minutes long. And along with losing Mary Dad Mike. 447 00:28:11,276 --> 00:28:16,036 Speaker 3: In fact, it was only two weeks before I lost Mike. 448 00:28:16,236 --> 00:28:20,956 Speaker 3: I lost my dog of thirteen years, Howard, And then 449 00:28:21,596 --> 00:28:24,796 Speaker 3: I was on tour and Mike was supposed to join 450 00:28:24,916 --> 00:28:27,996 Speaker 3: us on tour in Austin. He's from Texas and wanted 451 00:28:28,036 --> 00:28:30,596 Speaker 3: to go to that show, but his lodging fell through. 452 00:28:30,636 --> 00:28:36,276 Speaker 3: He didn't make it. We were out in southern California. Oddly, 453 00:28:36,676 --> 00:28:41,196 Speaker 3: I ran into ice on the Laguna Mountains. Scared the 454 00:28:41,316 --> 00:28:44,676 Speaker 3: shit out of me. I've never lived in a place 455 00:28:44,676 --> 00:28:46,876 Speaker 3: where you had to chain your tires, and there I 456 00:28:47,076 --> 00:28:53,476 Speaker 3: was in a you know, twelve passenger van with gear 457 00:28:53,716 --> 00:28:57,356 Speaker 3: and my band, and we had nothing but mountains in 458 00:28:57,396 --> 00:28:58,876 Speaker 3: front of us. You know. I had to go all 459 00:28:58,876 --> 00:29:02,316 Speaker 3: the way up into Seattle and down Utah and Colorado 460 00:29:02,596 --> 00:29:04,916 Speaker 3: by the end of the tour. So I called Mike 461 00:29:04,956 --> 00:29:08,236 Speaker 3: and asked him if he had any experience with chains 462 00:29:08,276 --> 00:29:10,956 Speaker 3: on the tires, and we talked a bit on the phone. 463 00:29:11,436 --> 00:29:15,116 Speaker 3: This was after I played Austin and played La and 464 00:29:15,156 --> 00:29:17,756 Speaker 3: on the way to San Francisco from La Is when 465 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:20,356 Speaker 3: I got the call that Mike had had passed. That 466 00:29:20,516 --> 00:29:21,756 Speaker 3: was my first tour of the year. 467 00:29:21,876 --> 00:29:23,236 Speaker 2: And this was unexpected. 468 00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:26,876 Speaker 3: This was unexpected. He died in a tree accident. And 469 00:29:26,996 --> 00:29:29,836 Speaker 3: let me tell you, Mike was crazy and he would 470 00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:32,116 Speaker 3: have wanted to die that. There was only one other 471 00:29:32,196 --> 00:29:34,276 Speaker 3: way I can think he would have wanted to die, 472 00:29:34,316 --> 00:29:36,556 Speaker 3: which was just get eat by a shark. He liked 473 00:29:36,556 --> 00:29:41,196 Speaker 3: to surf. This was nuts. He got crushed in a tree. Okay, 474 00:29:41,476 --> 00:29:43,396 Speaker 3: and Mike wouldn't mind me telling you this. In fact, 475 00:29:43,436 --> 00:29:47,156 Speaker 3: it's pretty badass. He got crushed in a tree. And 476 00:29:48,316 --> 00:29:52,436 Speaker 3: this is the most Mike thing ever. But his partner, Terrez, 477 00:29:53,396 --> 00:29:55,476 Speaker 3: was trying to make her way out to where he 478 00:29:55,636 --> 00:29:58,996 Speaker 3: was to help load this wood he was cutting, and 479 00:29:59,276 --> 00:30:03,276 Speaker 3: as Mike was dying, he answered his phone to tell 480 00:30:03,956 --> 00:30:07,836 Speaker 3: his partner of twenty years that he was dying. 481 00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:09,076 Speaker 2: Wow. 482 00:30:09,956 --> 00:30:13,036 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's amazing. If you knew him, you 483 00:30:13,076 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 3: would be like, well, isn't that Mike Harmon? You know, 484 00:30:16,316 --> 00:30:18,916 Speaker 3: of course he would, And you know, you can giggle 485 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:22,476 Speaker 3: at it now because it's just so him. That was 486 00:30:22,556 --> 00:30:27,756 Speaker 3: the beginning of twenty and twenty three. I had an 487 00:30:27,836 --> 00:30:31,356 Speaker 3: insane touring year. That year, I never got to stop. 488 00:30:32,076 --> 00:30:35,116 Speaker 3: When I started writing Heaven Song, I was heading out 489 00:30:35,156 --> 00:30:39,276 Speaker 3: on tour with Margo Price right after that. That was, 490 00:30:39,556 --> 00:30:42,876 Speaker 3: I believe late August. At that point, that was the 491 00:30:42,916 --> 00:30:44,876 Speaker 3: first time I got to catch a breath. Really, that 492 00:30:44,956 --> 00:30:49,676 Speaker 3: whole year, I hadn't been able to process Mike's death 493 00:30:50,076 --> 00:30:53,076 Speaker 3: or my dog. And I finally had a moment by 494 00:30:53,076 --> 00:30:56,876 Speaker 3: myself at home. So I took some little mushrooms that 495 00:30:56,916 --> 00:31:02,356 Speaker 3: Mike had given me and had like a very mellow 496 00:31:03,756 --> 00:31:09,276 Speaker 3: moment on my back porch, and I remember just right 497 00:31:09,476 --> 00:31:12,876 Speaker 3: down the words and singing the melody to maybe if 498 00:31:12,916 --> 00:31:16,076 Speaker 3: I see it, then I want it, because of course, 499 00:31:16,156 --> 00:31:19,836 Speaker 3: when people close to you die, when a little creature 500 00:31:19,876 --> 00:31:22,276 Speaker 3: who's been in your house for thirteen years is no 501 00:31:22,396 --> 00:31:26,836 Speaker 3: longer there, you're thinking about mortality. You're thinking about, you know, 502 00:31:26,956 --> 00:31:30,556 Speaker 3: life after death, all these things. And I really was, 503 00:31:30,636 --> 00:31:34,236 Speaker 3: and I wanted to. I was hoping to do some 504 00:31:34,356 --> 00:31:38,036 Speaker 3: processing around that when I was home, and I ended 505 00:31:38,116 --> 00:31:42,836 Speaker 3: up writing this big old road trip where I mean, 506 00:31:42,876 --> 00:31:46,756 Speaker 3: I know I'm the protagonist, and the song where I 507 00:31:47,236 --> 00:31:49,636 Speaker 3: end up being in a car with all these man 508 00:31:49,716 --> 00:31:52,436 Speaker 3: made concepts. The only thing really that was real was 509 00:31:52,476 --> 00:31:55,996 Speaker 3: the dog, you know, and we're on a road trip 510 00:31:55,996 --> 00:31:59,556 Speaker 3: to heaven. I knew I wanted to end the song. 511 00:31:59,636 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 3: It took a long time. It took about another full 512 00:32:02,716 --> 00:32:05,876 Speaker 3: year from that moment before I got the line, but 513 00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:09,316 Speaker 3: I knew at the end of the song, you know, 514 00:32:09,396 --> 00:32:11,596 Speaker 3: the chorus is maybe if I see it, then I 515 00:32:11,676 --> 00:32:15,676 Speaker 3: want it. And I'm talking about heaven even though I'm 516 00:32:15,716 --> 00:32:18,796 Speaker 3: trying to get there, but I'm still not sure if 517 00:32:18,836 --> 00:32:22,996 Speaker 3: I'll even want to give it a go. But then 518 00:32:23,076 --> 00:32:27,316 Speaker 3: at the end of the song, Sin, who has also 519 00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:30,476 Speaker 3: been in the car with me this whole time, you know, 520 00:32:30,516 --> 00:32:34,676 Speaker 3: wouldn't let me go into heaven before I answered what 521 00:32:34,836 --> 00:32:40,236 Speaker 3: I had learned from Sin specifically, and my reply was 522 00:32:40,276 --> 00:32:42,476 Speaker 3: that maybe if I see it, then I want it, 523 00:32:43,036 --> 00:32:45,556 Speaker 3: which is kind of what you know, if you were 524 00:32:45,636 --> 00:32:51,356 Speaker 3: raised in kind of the Christian tradition, That's what sin does, right. 525 00:32:52,156 --> 00:32:55,276 Speaker 3: It makes you lust after things? 526 00:32:55,556 --> 00:32:55,756 Speaker 4: Are you? 527 00:32:56,156 --> 00:32:59,156 Speaker 2: Are you patient with yourself when there's something not working 528 00:32:59,196 --> 00:33:01,436 Speaker 2: on a song? Will you try and force something in 529 00:33:01,556 --> 00:33:02,916 Speaker 2: or you'll just you'll let it sit. 530 00:33:04,356 --> 00:33:07,276 Speaker 3: No, And that's another thing I learned from my writing mentor. 531 00:33:07,356 --> 00:33:09,796 Speaker 3: He would always say, like a story, you'll go about 532 00:33:09,836 --> 00:33:13,396 Speaker 3: its business, and I look at songs the same way. 533 00:33:13,716 --> 00:33:17,436 Speaker 3: You know, there's songs that have taken years to write 534 00:33:17,956 --> 00:33:21,596 Speaker 3: and the way I believe it. I do write everything down, 535 00:33:21,716 --> 00:33:24,676 Speaker 3: but I'm not scared to put a song away because 536 00:33:25,596 --> 00:33:28,076 Speaker 3: I have this idea that if it comes back, then 537 00:33:28,116 --> 00:33:30,516 Speaker 3: it's meant to and if it doesn't, then it wasn't. 538 00:33:31,156 --> 00:33:34,236 Speaker 3: I really am not precious about that. I don't think 539 00:33:34,316 --> 00:33:37,076 Speaker 3: I've thrown away my best ideas or something like that. 540 00:33:37,156 --> 00:33:39,076 Speaker 3: I think if they're meant to stick around, they will. 541 00:33:39,836 --> 00:33:42,796 Speaker 2: And you believe in predestination for songs. 542 00:33:44,556 --> 00:33:47,596 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, let's bring it back full circle here. 543 00:33:47,756 --> 00:33:51,876 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's break and we'll be back with SG Goodman. 544 00:33:56,116 --> 00:33:58,036 Speaker 2: Are you writing for other people as well? 545 00:33:59,116 --> 00:34:01,156 Speaker 3: I would love to. You can tell you something. This 546 00:34:01,236 --> 00:34:05,836 Speaker 3: is funny. I have a really bad tendency. What I'll do, 547 00:34:05,876 --> 00:34:08,116 Speaker 3: I'll get it. I'll get a wild hair one night 548 00:34:08,156 --> 00:34:10,876 Speaker 3: and write somebody and say let's get together, let's write. 549 00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:14,076 Speaker 3: You know. I'm more of a phone call kind of person, 550 00:34:14,156 --> 00:34:16,916 Speaker 3: or it doesn't stick in my brain. So what I've 551 00:34:16,916 --> 00:34:19,556 Speaker 3: tried to do now is keep a list and then 552 00:34:19,636 --> 00:34:23,396 Speaker 3: share it with my management to say, hey, I want 553 00:34:23,436 --> 00:34:26,476 Speaker 3: you to know I wrote so and so, and they 554 00:34:26,476 --> 00:34:28,956 Speaker 3: said they were willing to write with me, but I 555 00:34:28,996 --> 00:34:32,436 Speaker 3: haven't followed up. And I have a feeling, if you know, 556 00:34:33,116 --> 00:34:36,396 Speaker 3: I go on a walk after I hang up this phone, 557 00:34:36,436 --> 00:34:39,316 Speaker 3: that it'll be another two weeks before I remember that 558 00:34:39,396 --> 00:34:42,636 Speaker 3: I did that again. You know, I love my manager 559 00:34:42,676 --> 00:34:45,276 Speaker 3: and thank God that you know they are willing to 560 00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:47,756 Speaker 3: help me do that. But yeah, I love to co 561 00:34:47,836 --> 00:34:49,756 Speaker 3: write with people. I don't have a lot of time 562 00:34:49,836 --> 00:34:51,476 Speaker 3: for it, but I wish I did. 563 00:34:51,556 --> 00:34:53,996 Speaker 2: You know, Because I was listening to this record, I thought, well, 564 00:34:54,036 --> 00:34:56,756 Speaker 2: who wouldn't want some of these songs on their record too? 565 00:34:57,156 --> 00:34:59,036 Speaker 2: They just seem to work that so well. 566 00:34:59,116 --> 00:35:01,836 Speaker 3: Let's name some people that we would want to cover 567 00:35:01,916 --> 00:35:05,716 Speaker 3: these songs. What are you thinking? Like Dolly Parton, let's 568 00:35:05,716 --> 00:35:07,036 Speaker 3: willing into existence? 569 00:35:07,076 --> 00:35:10,356 Speaker 2: But would I would? I want you to make as 570 00:35:10,436 --> 00:35:11,476 Speaker 2: much money as possible. 571 00:35:12,156 --> 00:35:14,636 Speaker 3: I would have wanted you have to follow me on substack. 572 00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:15,596 Speaker 2: No, I'm just kidding. 573 00:35:15,636 --> 00:35:17,436 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm eight dollars a month. 574 00:35:20,396 --> 00:35:22,436 Speaker 2: You know I would have said, honestly, I would have 575 00:35:22,476 --> 00:35:26,996 Speaker 2: said Mary unfaithful because I thought she covered songs so beautifully. 576 00:35:27,676 --> 00:35:30,756 Speaker 3: You know, covering songs is one of it's truly an 577 00:35:30,836 --> 00:35:33,156 Speaker 3: art form. I can't do it. I'm not very good 578 00:35:33,196 --> 00:35:33,596 Speaker 3: at it. 579 00:35:33,716 --> 00:35:34,076 Speaker 1: Really. 580 00:35:34,316 --> 00:35:37,556 Speaker 3: Yes, I was in the studio with a friend of mine, 581 00:35:37,636 --> 00:35:41,356 Speaker 3: Kelsey Walden, who's a great, great artist man. She really 582 00:35:41,436 --> 00:35:46,556 Speaker 3: has an act for reworking someone else's songs. I just 583 00:35:46,596 --> 00:35:51,116 Speaker 3: have absolutely I go blank. I've been really fortunate in 584 00:35:51,156 --> 00:35:54,796 Speaker 3: the covering song department. Tyler Childers covered sure one of 585 00:35:54,796 --> 00:35:58,796 Speaker 3: my songs, and it really is a rare thing where 586 00:35:58,796 --> 00:36:01,956 Speaker 3: you're like, you know what, You're a really good person, 587 00:36:02,996 --> 00:36:07,236 Speaker 3: and I'd be happy for you to cover my song. 588 00:36:07,356 --> 00:36:10,636 Speaker 3: You know, I don't have to worry about Tyler doing 589 00:36:10,716 --> 00:36:14,556 Speaker 3: something and me being scared to be associated with him. 590 00:36:14,956 --> 00:36:18,156 Speaker 3: But you know, you never know about some of these others. 591 00:36:18,236 --> 00:36:22,676 Speaker 3: I'm not trying to make assumptions, but I do read. 592 00:36:22,996 --> 00:36:27,876 Speaker 2: So you do. Do you feel at all a part 593 00:36:27,916 --> 00:36:32,676 Speaker 2: of that world? You know, you root yourself in western Kentucky, 594 00:36:32,716 --> 00:36:36,036 Speaker 2: which is not Nashville. Uh huh? Do you feel a 595 00:36:36,116 --> 00:36:39,636 Speaker 2: part of that kind of Nashville world? 596 00:36:40,596 --> 00:36:43,356 Speaker 3: I would say I'm about two hours out, you know, 597 00:36:43,916 --> 00:36:46,756 Speaker 3: because that's how far I am from Nashville. It's good. 598 00:36:46,836 --> 00:36:49,956 Speaker 3: Nashville has been good to me, and I don't have 599 00:36:50,636 --> 00:36:53,676 Speaker 3: things to say about it. Negatively in that regards. But 600 00:36:54,516 --> 00:36:56,956 Speaker 3: it's not a bad thing to be from Kentucky and 601 00:36:57,076 --> 00:37:00,596 Speaker 3: be a musician. I think Kentucky music stands on it's 602 00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:02,436 Speaker 3: own it and it has for a really long time 603 00:37:02,476 --> 00:37:05,556 Speaker 3: and will continue to. So yeah, I'm about two hours 604 00:37:05,596 --> 00:37:07,276 Speaker 3: out of Nashville. 605 00:37:06,796 --> 00:37:10,476 Speaker 2: Everly Brothers, Ricky Skaggs, Bill Monroe. 606 00:37:10,916 --> 00:37:16,036 Speaker 3: Kentucky isn't even just like a country music hub. I 607 00:37:16,036 --> 00:37:18,996 Speaker 3: mean when I opened my mouth, I'm country, you know, 608 00:37:19,716 --> 00:37:22,276 Speaker 3: but I love punk music, I love rap, I love 609 00:37:22,316 --> 00:37:25,116 Speaker 3: all kinds of different music. And Kentucky has a really 610 00:37:25,116 --> 00:37:28,596 Speaker 3: big history of you know, we have Bonnie Prince, Billy, 611 00:37:28,636 --> 00:37:32,236 Speaker 3: we have we have Slint, an old post punk band, 612 00:37:33,276 --> 00:37:37,116 Speaker 3: My Morning Jacket, you know, State Champion was a big 613 00:37:37,156 --> 00:37:39,956 Speaker 3: influence on me. The span at A Louisville. It's great 614 00:37:40,236 --> 00:37:44,276 Speaker 3: indie band Wombo. There's lots of different types of really 615 00:37:44,316 --> 00:37:47,236 Speaker 3: amazing music that has come out of Kentucky. 616 00:37:47,316 --> 00:37:50,956 Speaker 2: And well, Jim James from My Morning Jacket produced your 617 00:37:50,956 --> 00:37:53,036 Speaker 2: first rect Did he discover. 618 00:37:52,716 --> 00:37:56,636 Speaker 3: You in a sense or I think I was forced 619 00:37:56,676 --> 00:37:58,836 Speaker 3: on him? Not really. 620 00:37:58,956 --> 00:38:00,596 Speaker 2: I had a bit of worked out. 621 00:38:00,956 --> 00:38:04,756 Speaker 3: It did well, I asked a mutual friend of mine, 622 00:38:04,836 --> 00:38:07,636 Speaker 3: I got the nerves I went and worked on some demos, 623 00:38:07,676 --> 00:38:10,796 Speaker 3: and then six months later I finally got the nerve 624 00:38:10,916 --> 00:38:13,996 Speaker 3: to send them to a mutual friend of ours, this 625 00:38:14,356 --> 00:38:17,996 Speaker 3: artist named Daniel Martin Moore. I was up in the 626 00:38:17,996 --> 00:38:21,716 Speaker 3: mountains with him and Joan Shelley and a bunch of 627 00:38:21,716 --> 00:38:26,476 Speaker 3: different writers for this compilation called the Pine Mountain Sessions, 628 00:38:26,716 --> 00:38:28,876 Speaker 3: and I saw that Jim James was on it, and 629 00:38:28,916 --> 00:38:31,036 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my goodness, because I was a 630 00:38:31,036 --> 00:38:33,156 Speaker 3: really big fan of my morn Jacket and I was like, wow, 631 00:38:33,236 --> 00:38:36,636 Speaker 3: I guess I'm not crazy far removed from this person. 632 00:38:36,676 --> 00:38:39,676 Speaker 3: And I knew Daniel's friends, and after I got those 633 00:38:39,716 --> 00:38:45,196 Speaker 3: demos together, I sent Daniel an email in October of 634 00:38:45,276 --> 00:38:51,916 Speaker 3: that year, and by December, my friend and now publicist 635 00:38:52,796 --> 00:38:56,716 Speaker 3: actually told me we haven't heard back from Jim. It's 636 00:38:56,756 --> 00:38:59,236 Speaker 3: a good record. You should if you don't hear back 637 00:38:59,276 --> 00:39:03,036 Speaker 3: by Monday, like you should move on and like just 638 00:39:03,116 --> 00:39:06,276 Speaker 3: cut the record go on. Well, I was working and 639 00:39:06,356 --> 00:39:08,636 Speaker 3: I was actually living in Nashville. I lived in Nashville 640 00:39:08,676 --> 00:39:12,076 Speaker 3: for about six months and was working at a little 641 00:39:12,076 --> 00:39:15,716 Speaker 3: taco shop there. It was right before my serving shift. 642 00:39:16,196 --> 00:39:18,876 Speaker 3: I'd been there prepping since seven. I was having a 643 00:39:18,916 --> 00:39:22,556 Speaker 3: coke outside and I got an email looping me in 644 00:39:23,036 --> 00:39:25,036 Speaker 3: that Monday with Jim James. 645 00:39:25,756 --> 00:39:26,676 Speaker 2: Did you do your shift? 646 00:39:27,836 --> 00:39:30,076 Speaker 3: I did it a lot happier that day than all 647 00:39:30,116 --> 00:39:30,636 Speaker 3: the other ones. 648 00:39:30,676 --> 00:39:32,276 Speaker 2: You know, everybody got a little EPI. 649 00:39:32,316 --> 00:39:34,756 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I was like, I'm not gonna be here 650 00:39:34,836 --> 00:39:37,756 Speaker 3: much longer. I'm going back to Kentucky. I had my 651 00:39:37,836 --> 00:39:40,596 Speaker 3: house in Kentucky and live there to help pay off 652 00:39:40,716 --> 00:39:42,716 Speaker 3: my property taxes that year. 653 00:39:43,036 --> 00:39:47,356 Speaker 2: Now that sound had it does have that low fi sound, 654 00:39:47,716 --> 00:39:50,756 Speaker 2: a lot of reverb on the guitar. You still some 655 00:39:50,876 --> 00:39:54,476 Speaker 2: of that, but this, this album feels the sound feels different. 656 00:39:54,556 --> 00:39:57,236 Speaker 2: Did you go in with different ideas for how you 657 00:39:57,316 --> 00:39:58,556 Speaker 2: wanted the production to go. 658 00:39:59,076 --> 00:40:03,036 Speaker 3: I did. I wanted not only did I want the production, 659 00:40:03,156 --> 00:40:07,036 Speaker 3: as far as the sound to feel different. I wanted 660 00:40:07,076 --> 00:40:12,116 Speaker 3: to make it no that I was going to be 661 00:40:12,196 --> 00:40:15,636 Speaker 3: a third whill as the producer. I've always co produced 662 00:40:15,676 --> 00:40:19,516 Speaker 3: all my records, and you know I have a very 663 00:40:19,556 --> 00:40:25,116 Speaker 3: particular vision, and you could verify that with anyone who's 664 00:40:25,156 --> 00:40:28,556 Speaker 3: ever done anything with me. I had worked with Drew 665 00:40:28,636 --> 00:40:33,276 Speaker 3: Vandenberg and I've worked with Matt Rowan before on other projects, 666 00:40:33,316 --> 00:40:36,636 Speaker 3: but never where it was as blatant as all right, 667 00:40:37,276 --> 00:40:40,876 Speaker 3: we're going to be all co captains on this, and 668 00:40:40,956 --> 00:40:45,396 Speaker 3: I am going to be more open to your ideas 669 00:40:45,436 --> 00:40:49,836 Speaker 3: and things like that. So that was different and vulnerable feeling. 670 00:40:50,516 --> 00:40:54,116 Speaker 3: But as far as yes, making a bigger sounding record 671 00:40:54,276 --> 00:40:57,476 Speaker 3: than I had in the past, that I went into 672 00:40:57,476 --> 00:40:59,636 Speaker 3: the studio know when I wanted to do that, and 673 00:40:59,716 --> 00:41:04,156 Speaker 3: I hired musicians specifically to help accomplish that. 674 00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:07,516 Speaker 2: For me, do you know enough about production? I think 675 00:41:07,916 --> 00:41:10,396 Speaker 2: there's things I can do here to make this feel bigger. 676 00:41:11,156 --> 00:41:13,676 Speaker 3: Oh definitely. This is the first record where I ever 677 00:41:13,756 --> 00:41:19,836 Speaker 3: let keys and kind of anything that wasn't easily packed 678 00:41:19,876 --> 00:41:23,116 Speaker 3: into my van and could go across this country on 679 00:41:23,156 --> 00:41:25,556 Speaker 3: a record. I always had a problem with that. I 680 00:41:25,636 --> 00:41:31,476 Speaker 3: always have been really particular about wanting for my live 681 00:41:31,516 --> 00:41:35,196 Speaker 3: performance to sound just like the record. A lot of 682 00:41:35,196 --> 00:41:38,356 Speaker 3: people aren't like that, you know, and a lot of 683 00:41:38,396 --> 00:41:42,756 Speaker 3: listeners don't want that. But for me, being starting out 684 00:41:42,796 --> 00:41:46,196 Speaker 3: in music and trying to cut my teeth and pretty 685 00:41:46,236 --> 00:41:48,316 Speaker 3: much anyone I would come in front of had never 686 00:41:48,396 --> 00:41:51,596 Speaker 3: heard me before, I wanted my live show to sound 687 00:41:51,836 --> 00:41:54,556 Speaker 3: exactly like the record. So I was representing what I 688 00:41:54,556 --> 00:41:59,836 Speaker 3: had done. And having a keyboard player early on in 689 00:41:59,876 --> 00:42:02,236 Speaker 3: my tour life. That just couldn't have happened. I couldn't 690 00:42:02,236 --> 00:42:06,076 Speaker 3: have fit everybody in the van, and I couldn't afford 691 00:42:06,116 --> 00:42:10,556 Speaker 3: to pay an extra person. Even this record, I knew 692 00:42:10,596 --> 00:42:15,476 Speaker 3: that I wanted to add another sonic element that was 693 00:42:15,596 --> 00:42:19,956 Speaker 3: not present on albums in the past, and I chose, 694 00:42:20,396 --> 00:42:24,756 Speaker 3: you know, kind of auxiliary key stuff and I love it. 695 00:42:24,796 --> 00:42:27,436 Speaker 3: I have had Ben Tanner plays with Alabama Shakes and 696 00:42:28,036 --> 00:42:31,036 Speaker 3: was down in muscle shows. Lives down there so right 697 00:42:31,076 --> 00:42:35,036 Speaker 3: by the studio and what a what a champ? Really 698 00:42:35,076 --> 00:42:37,756 Speaker 3: good and I mean, I'm not gonna lie. It took. 699 00:42:38,516 --> 00:42:43,156 Speaker 3: I was really uncomfortable with some of the ambient things 700 00:42:43,236 --> 00:42:45,236 Speaker 3: that were coming out at first, but we honed it 701 00:42:45,276 --> 00:42:47,156 Speaker 3: in in a way that I was comfortable and I 702 00:42:47,236 --> 00:42:51,116 Speaker 3: never they Matt and Drew, my co producers, would always say, 703 00:42:51,836 --> 00:42:55,516 Speaker 3: you are steering the ship of what and that's important. 704 00:42:55,756 --> 00:42:59,676 Speaker 3: I have to have the music sound like something that 705 00:42:59,756 --> 00:43:02,156 Speaker 3: I don't get up in front of people and feel 706 00:43:02,196 --> 00:43:06,916 Speaker 3: like it's not me, you know. So that was that 707 00:43:07,076 --> 00:43:11,116 Speaker 3: was fun. But Matt Penn was my drummer, and it 708 00:43:11,156 --> 00:43:14,116 Speaker 3: was just like washing a person like just an alien. 709 00:43:14,716 --> 00:43:18,636 Speaker 3: His drumming is just it was hard to play live 710 00:43:18,916 --> 00:43:21,676 Speaker 3: with him because I just wanted to watch. It was 711 00:43:21,836 --> 00:43:25,636 Speaker 3: really amazing, And yeah, I was really fortunate to get 712 00:43:25,636 --> 00:43:30,636 Speaker 3: to work with a lot of really really great musicians 713 00:43:30,716 --> 00:43:35,516 Speaker 3: on this record that made things. We just locked in 714 00:43:35,596 --> 00:43:39,356 Speaker 3: with each other in the live room and we're out 715 00:43:39,396 --> 00:43:40,596 Speaker 3: of there in ten days. 716 00:43:41,396 --> 00:43:44,196 Speaker 2: Amazing. Well, it's a great record. Thank you so much 717 00:43:44,196 --> 00:43:45,836 Speaker 2: for doing this. It's been just wonderful. 718 00:43:46,036 --> 00:43:48,396 Speaker 3: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it. 719 00:43:48,436 --> 00:43:49,316 Speaker 2: Do you want to play a song? 720 00:43:49,476 --> 00:43:51,076 Speaker 3: Let's do it, all right, play something. 721 00:43:51,156 --> 00:43:53,236 Speaker 2: You can play anything you want, all right. 722 00:43:53,156 --> 00:43:56,316 Speaker 3: I'm going to play my song, I'm in Love, a 723 00:43:56,316 --> 00:43:57,156 Speaker 3: sweet little song. 724 00:44:09,596 --> 00:44:13,676 Speaker 4: All the early birds now singing like a late night 725 00:44:14,516 --> 00:44:25,036 Speaker 4: talking for I've been trespassing on my neighbors, swimming naked 726 00:44:25,996 --> 00:44:36,836 Speaker 4: through their pool. Well, I've forgotten all my friends, but 727 00:44:37,116 --> 00:44:37,636 Speaker 4: I don't. 728 00:44:37,476 --> 00:44:46,476 Speaker 5: Know they can tell the Army love. I'm in love. 729 00:44:46,916 --> 00:44:50,236 Speaker 5: I'm in love. I'm in love. 730 00:44:55,476 --> 00:45:03,276 Speaker 4: I've been crying at commercials on the Hotel hotelevision set, 731 00:45:06,516 --> 00:45:10,876 Speaker 4: and I've been lieing on my tex Is, crowding off 732 00:45:10,956 --> 00:45:20,116 Speaker 4: the things that I ain't ballsed RSV. Petere and thetation 733 00:45:20,756 --> 00:45:26,036 Speaker 4: snowing in my heart that I never show. 734 00:45:28,036 --> 00:45:28,076 Speaker 6: That. 735 00:45:29,076 --> 00:45:31,876 Speaker 5: Army Love. I'm in love. 736 00:45:32,316 --> 00:45:43,236 Speaker 6: I'm in love. I'm in love. The moon is right 737 00:45:43,436 --> 00:45:45,436 Speaker 6: now for cutting off hair. 738 00:45:45,876 --> 00:45:51,076 Speaker 4: I'm checking out Walmart collections of underwear. 739 00:45:51,996 --> 00:45:57,316 Speaker 6: I'm in love. I'm in love. I'm in love. I'm 740 00:45:57,396 --> 00:45:58,996 Speaker 6: in love. 741 00:46:03,316 --> 00:46:09,476 Speaker 4: Oh, have our conversation, said the checkout line at the 742 00:46:09,556 --> 00:46:18,156 Speaker 4: grocery store, telling my whole life now to strangers in 743 00:46:18,196 --> 00:46:27,396 Speaker 4: a way I've never done before. Yeah, I've been dancing 744 00:46:27,556 --> 00:46:32,556 Speaker 4: in my kitchen, singing into school. 745 00:46:36,276 --> 00:46:47,916 Speaker 6: There, arm in love, Armon Love, Armen Love, I'm in love, Yes, 746 00:46:48,676 --> 00:46:54,556 Speaker 6: Armon Love, common Love, Armon Love, arm in. 747 00:47:02,716 --> 00:47:05,756 Speaker 2: Beautiful, thank you. 748 00:47:06,476 --> 00:47:08,476 Speaker 1: In an episode description, you'll find a link to our 749 00:47:08,516 --> 00:47:11,796 Speaker 1: favorite Goodman tracks, as well as her latest album, Planting 750 00:47:11,876 --> 00:47:14,396 Speaker 1: by the Signs. Be sure to check out YouTube dot 751 00:47:14,396 --> 00:47:17,116 Speaker 1: com slash Broken Record podcast to see all of our 752 00:47:17,196 --> 00:47:20,276 Speaker 1: video interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram 753 00:47:20,316 --> 00:47:22,636 Speaker 1: at the Broken Record Pod. You can follow us on 754 00:47:22,636 --> 00:47:25,876 Speaker 1: Twitter at Broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited 755 00:47:25,916 --> 00:47:28,196 Speaker 1: by Leah Rose, with marketing and help from Eric Sandler 756 00:47:28,276 --> 00:47:32,356 Speaker 1: and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Holliday. Broken Record 757 00:47:32,396 --> 00:47:35,076 Speaker 1: is production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show 758 00:47:35,196 --> 00:47:38,876 Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin 759 00:47:38,876 --> 00:47:41,676 Speaker 1: Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and 760 00:47:41,756 --> 00:47:44,276 Speaker 1: ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look 761 00:47:44,316 --> 00:47:47,636 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you 762 00:47:47,716 --> 00:47:49,916 Speaker 1: like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review 763 00:47:49,956 --> 00:47:52,836 Speaker 1: us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. 764 00:47:52,916 --> 00:47:53,956 Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond.