Speaker 1: As we looked at Joe Biden at the podium last night,
Speaker 1: the big seventy fifth anniversary emblem right in front of him.
Speaker 1: This is a big moment for the Alliance, and there
Speaker 1: was more at play than just Joe Biden's acuity.
Speaker 2: And we're going to get into a lot of this now.
Speaker 1: As we heard from the President last evening, he spoke
Speaker 1: for roughly one hour fifty nine minutes, and he was
Speaker 1: asked about what he was hearing about his age, about
Speaker 1: his status politically here from world leaders at NATO.
Speaker 2: Here he is, I'm.
Speaker 3: Not handing any my European allies company to say, Joe,
Speaker 3: don't run. What I hear them say is you've.
Speaker 2: Got to win.
Speaker 3: I can't let this guy come forward. He'd be disaster.
Speaker 3: He'd be disaster. I mean, I think he said in
Speaker 3: one of his rallies, don't hold me to this recently
Speaker 3: where NATO. I just learned about NATO or something to
Speaker 3: that effect. Foreign policy has never been his strong point.
Speaker 4: Joe Biden, of course making those remarkasity wrapped up the
Speaker 4: three day NATO summit here in Washington and joining us
Speaker 4: now as someone who is in town for that summit.
Speaker 4: The foreign Minister of Poland, Radik Sekorski, is here with
Speaker 4: us in our Washington, d C. Studio. Minister, welcome back
Speaker 4: to Bloomberg. It's lovely to have you. I wonder what
Speaker 4: your perception of Joe Biden was, not just in the
Speaker 4: press conference last night, but over the course of your
Speaker 4: visit to Washington this week. Do you see a man
Speaker 4: not only capable of leading a country for another four
Speaker 4: and a half years, but effectively leading the free world.
Speaker 5: Look, I'm not interfering in your internal chaffairs. I can
Speaker 5: tell you that we had a summit with President Biden
Speaker 5: in March, with our president, our Prime minister.
Speaker 2: I was there.
Speaker 5: We had I think nineteen minutes of conversation. President Biden
Speaker 5: was focused, strategic, and quite humorous.
Speaker 2: Actually, slip ups happen.
Speaker 5: You know, just meeting with the old journalists, and I
Speaker 5: made a slip up and I didn't correct myself. But
Speaker 5: we need America to lead, and President Biden is leading
Speaker 5: the effort on Ukraine, for which we.
Speaker 2: Are very grateful.
Speaker 1: I just used the wrong name on the air before
Speaker 1: you came in. I did a slip up, and I
Speaker 1: do it all the time. We're trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what counts as a slip and what qualifies as deterioration.
Speaker 1: And I would ask you, you're not a doctor. We
Speaker 1: don't have to dwell on your view on that necessarily.
Speaker 1: But this is a very important moment for the Alliance.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the potential for enormous change here domestically
Speaker 1: politically in the United States. There's a lot of noise
Speaker 1: around the president, as we already know, which could have
Speaker 1: been a bit of a distraction, but there's also great
Speaker 1: uncertainty about the trajectory of politics and a number of
Speaker 1: European nations, having seen elections in France, having seen a
Speaker 1: change in leadership in the UK, some are calling this
Speaker 1: a peak for NATO might not be the same following
Speaker 1: this moment. How does the Alliance survive the uncertainty globally politically?
Speaker 5: Now, well, let's unpick or you just said there's change
Speaker 5: in the UK. But I am assured by the new
Speaker 5: government and the Foreign Minister visited me at home in
Speaker 5: Poland on the third day of his of him holding
Speaker 5: office that Ukraine will be solid I mean the Britain
Speaker 5: will be solid on Ukraine, and Prime Minister Starma reaffirmed
Speaker 5: that in France some people worried that the nationalist side
Speaker 5: of the.
Speaker 2: Politics will take over. That hasn't happened.
Speaker 5: Putin is constantly accounting on our divisions and on our inefficiency,
Speaker 5: and he doesn't understand our psychology, and he doesn't understand
Speaker 5: that we are in it for the long haul. Look,
Speaker 5: as you said, I took part in the summit yesterday.
Speaker 5: I was I was in pressed at how consistent and
Speaker 5: powerful and persuasive almost all the leaders of the Alliance
Speaker 5: were in saying we are in it for the long
Speaker 5: run until Ukraine is a secure, independent nation, and we
Speaker 5: have some good decisions out of the summit, and President
Speaker 5: Biden is the author of these good decisions.
Speaker 4: Well, we don't know that he'll be President Biden beyond
Speaker 4: January four.
Speaker 2: Well, that's democracy for.
Speaker 4: You, certainly. And even the president of Poland, President Dudah,
Speaker 4: has told Joe and I that if it does turn
Speaker 4: out to be a second Donald Trump administration, he can
Speaker 4: work with Donald Trump. We hear it frequently from other diplomats,
Speaker 4: such as yourself, a willingness to work with whomever. I
Speaker 4: guess my question is, do you really believe that Donald
Speaker 4: Trump will be as willing to work with you? As
Speaker 4: President Biden.
Speaker 5: We keep in touch with the administration and with the
Speaker 5: alternative administration, as we do with any other democracy have
Speaker 5: a cohabitation in Poland. The president is from a more
Speaker 5: Trumpion side of Polish politics, and he's kept in touch
Speaker 5: with President Trump all along, and we encourage him. I personally,
Speaker 5: of course, work with the administration, but I talked to
Speaker 5: President Trump's people and some of the things that they
Speaker 5: tell me about what they plan to do are interesting.
Speaker 2: And creative, not frightening.
Speaker 5: Politics is a difficult business. Some of these things are
Speaker 5: very controversial. We were disappointed that the American supplemental took
Speaker 5: so long, but eventually the good thing happened. We hope
Speaker 5: that President Trump will want to be a winner and
Speaker 5: a winner of getting to a fair piece in Ukraine,
Speaker 5: which means Ukraine enjoying its liberty.
Speaker 1: Do you worry about the idea of redefining Article five,
Speaker 1: as Donald Trump has suggested based on the level of
Speaker 1: financial contribution?
Speaker 2: Is that a creative idea?
Speaker 5: He was right to insist that allies should spend more,
Speaker 5: and I quickly defended many, even in style, because when
Speaker 5: predecessors did it politely didn't work. Okay, So the combination
Speaker 5: of President Trump's and Joe Biden's pressure and the war
Speaker 5: in Ukraine resulted in the fact that twenty three out
Speaker 5: of the thirty two allies now spent two percent of
Speaker 5: GDP on defense. Poland spends four and we're going to
Speaker 5: spend five next year. We're number one in Nature, including
Speaker 5: the United States in proportion, obviously because we we are
Speaker 5: no longer in eternal post Cold War peace. But to
Speaker 5: think about so, this is a good thing and that
Speaker 5: was needed. But an alliance is not a neighborhood security company.
Speaker 5: Take Iceland, which is a Nature member, which hardly has
Speaker 5: a defense budget at all, but it has other vital assets,
Speaker 5: its territory, its ability to refuel.
Speaker 2: To bring.
Speaker 5: When we rallied around the United States, when countries were
Speaker 5: spending under two percent, we sent first Poland, one brigade
Speaker 5: to Afghanistan, another brigades to Iraq. Others did the same.
Speaker 5: So the level of spending shouldn't be the early oddstick.
Speaker 4: Just in our final moment with you. Something else that
Speaker 4: came out of this summit was the labeling of China
Speaker 4: as a decisive enabler of Russia. And we also know
Speaker 4: that Donald Trump has quite hawkish toward China, as is
Speaker 4: Joe Biden for that matter. And I wonder if to you,
Speaker 4: whatever the outcome of the election, does it seem that
Speaker 4: the US is orienting more toward that adversary, leaving Europe
Speaker 4: to be the one who has to step up defense
Speaker 4: militarily against the threat of Russia.
Speaker 5: Secureencing matters. If we enable Ukraine to win to defend
Speaker 5: its independence and borders in the next couple of hours,
Speaker 5: then I think other theaters could become a priority. And
Speaker 5: actually helping Ukraine win, I believe would also moderate China's behavior.
Speaker 5: China is respecting our thickest red line, which is not
Speaker 5: to send arms to Russia, unlike Iran or North Korea.
Speaker 5: And yes, China could actually bring their vessal put into
Speaker 5: heal and tell them to end this war. And we
Speaker 5: are making these representations to the Chinese leadership, and I
Speaker 5: hope they act on them.
Speaker 1: We've enjoyed staying in touch with you, and I hope
Speaker 1: that you'll continue to factor us into your plans when
Speaker 1: you're returned to Washington. Thank you for joining us on
Speaker 1: this NATO summit week