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Speaker 1: This is Unbreakable with Jay Glacier, a mental health podcast

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Speaker 1: helping you out of the gray and into the blue.

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Speaker 1: Now here's Jay Glacier.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to.

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Speaker 3: Unbreakable, a mental health podcast with Jay Glazer. And just

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Speaker 3: reminder for everybody out there, this is my shameless plug

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Speaker 3: here to reach out and grab my book Unbreakable, How

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Speaker 3: I turned my depression, anxiety and a motivation and you

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Speaker 3: can too, because that's what we need to do. In

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Speaker 3: the book, and it talks about the gray and my

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Speaker 3: own depression, anxiety, my add the bipolar, everything but everything.

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Speaker 3: And I also use to try and get me through

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Speaker 3: the gray. And one of those is to have teammates

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Speaker 3: and to reach out and find new teammates.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I'm doing today with.

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Speaker 3: I'd gotten some messages not too long ago some people

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Speaker 3: from my house states said, man, you really need to

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Speaker 3: get connected with this one young man out there in

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Speaker 3: Ohio State.

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Speaker 2: And it was incredible of the bravery and courage that

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Speaker 2: I saw.

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Speaker 3: Are my next guest who is joining me right now

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Speaker 3: here by dude Tarry Miller from Ohio State University.

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Speaker 2: How's everything going with you?

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Speaker 4: Very good, just very busy.

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Speaker 5: Just a few more weeks left with class and then

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Speaker 5: the semester's over, so of course this is when all

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Speaker 5: the projects are getting into netty gritty long hours and

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Speaker 5: finals and whatnot.

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Speaker 4: So I'm very good, just very busy, you know.

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Speaker 3: I'm kind of like it was almost like a starstruck

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Speaker 3: thing for me right here, because I'm like, man, I've

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Speaker 3: been watching your journey for so long. I've been wanting

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Speaker 3: to get in touch with you, and here's the first

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Speaker 3: chance we get to do it again. People say I'm

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Speaker 3: brave for me coming out and describing it, but I

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Speaker 3: think what you've done is a completely different level than

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Speaker 3: a lot of us.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate that in the middle and it really was.

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Speaker 3: It was, and I hope you could could accept that

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Speaker 3: and realize how brave and courageous it was for you

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Speaker 3: to do that, and how many of the people you've

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Speaker 3: probably saved by doing this as well. So with that,

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Speaker 3: I kind of want to open up for you. I

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Speaker 3: want you to tell people your story here where.

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Speaker 2: Man, it just it affected and touched me so much,

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Speaker 2: and I know it will so many of our listeners.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Well, for me, I am still currently attending the Ohios

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Speaker 5: at University. I'm a senior studying mechanical eng and I

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Speaker 5: played football at the Ohio State as well. I played

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Speaker 5: offensive line, and you know, came in as a as

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Speaker 5: a highly tittered recruit depending on the service, you know,

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Speaker 5: one or two rank center in the country. You know,

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Speaker 5: came in and worked my way into some playing time

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Speaker 5: my freshman year, sophomore year started, and then going into

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Speaker 5: my junior year, you know, beginning to talk to agents

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Speaker 5: about the potential of you know, playing in the NFL,

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Speaker 5: playing professionally, making lots of money, you know, fame, fortune

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Speaker 5: and everything that goes with fame and fortune, right, So

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Speaker 5: lots of talks of that, lots of anticipation, but sort

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Speaker 5: of you know, going into my junior season, I felt

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Speaker 5: you know, for lack of a better term, quite awful

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Speaker 5: and was grappling with you know, depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts.

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Speaker 5: And it got to a point where you know, I understood,

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Speaker 5: either you know, I'm I'm not going to survive this

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Speaker 5: or I'm going to talk about it. And you know,

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Speaker 5: just as you know what I do and I don't

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Speaker 5: know what else to do. I called my mom and

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Speaker 5: I said, you know, this is the deal. You said, Okay,

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Speaker 5: talk to coach Day and it's the next day. I

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Speaker 5: talked to coach Day and you know, explained, you know,

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Speaker 5: when I when I leave the facility, I go home

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Speaker 5: and have suicidal and you know, sort of gave him

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Speaker 5: the rundown. And I was just honest with him because

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Speaker 5: you know, at that point I had nothing to lose.

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Speaker 5: This is all just sort of you know, hit or

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Speaker 5: pattering on the way out the door, and you know,

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Speaker 5: there was no there was no harm done and seeing

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Speaker 5: if something could come out of it. So, you know,

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Speaker 5: I told him, and.

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Speaker 3: We're real real quick on did you just start having

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Speaker 3: suicidal thoughts that years?

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Speaker 2: Is something that you've always struggled with.

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Speaker 5: It's something I first started seeing, you know, psychiatrist when

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Speaker 5: I was eight years old, and that's when I first

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Speaker 5: you know, voiced to my mother. You know, back then,

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Speaker 5: I didn't have a concept of a word like suicide.

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Speaker 5: I would tell my mom, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 5: to feel this way anymore. You know, such heavy feelings,

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Speaker 5: you know, and feelings that you can't get out from under.

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Speaker 5: And so the only rational thing at that point seems

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Speaker 5: to just stop having those feelings. And there was only

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Speaker 5: one way I knew to do that and so I

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Speaker 5: started getting you know, mental health support at a young age,

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Speaker 5: at eight years old, and you know, over you know,

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Speaker 5: the next decade, as I would become a young man

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Speaker 5: and go to Ohio State, I would have you know,

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Speaker 5: latent period periods and and periods when you know, things

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Speaker 5: were also very well. But I think, you know, going

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Speaker 5: to Ohio State and you know, I just I just

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Speaker 5: saw a recent post of yours talking about you know,

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Speaker 5: you know, healing the child version of yourself. It's you know,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of mental stress fractures, mental micro fractures

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Speaker 5: that you can get away with if you don't have

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Speaker 5: to bear a large boat, if you don't have to

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Speaker 5: be exposed to extreme forces. But once you get to something,

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Speaker 5: say like playing college football to Ohio State, micro fractures

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Speaker 5: are going to break under extreme pressure. And I was

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Speaker 5: under extreme pressure and with unresolved issues that I had

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Speaker 5: deep throughout my childhood. It sort of came to a

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Speaker 5: head heading into that junior year, and you know, I

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Speaker 5: had to and that's it's and that's when I really,

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Speaker 5: I don't know, went all in with working with sports

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Speaker 5: psychiatry and sports psychology. And I was a person who

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Speaker 5: I had an experience, a good experience working with sports psychiatry.

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Speaker 5: But I remember when you know, they were sort of

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Speaker 5: advertised to us as resource. I told one of my friends,

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Speaker 5: I said, you know, I'm not I'm not going to

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Speaker 5: talk to somebody who's paid to care about me. If

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Speaker 5: I'm going to kill myself, they're not going to stop me.

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Speaker 5: And I was a person who had a good experience.

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Speaker 5: So because of that, you know, I really I really

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Speaker 5: sympathize and I understand how the perspective to not want

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Speaker 5: to receive help, and especially like you know, I remember

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Speaker 5: going in to talk to coach Day It's like, you know,

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Speaker 5: we've got a season to worry about it. I'm pretty

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Speaker 5: sure we were just like a week out of our

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Speaker 5: home opener, like this is a huge waste of time.

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Speaker 5: It's like, I'll just kill myself, get this out of

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Speaker 5: the way, and let them worry about the season, because

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Speaker 5: you know, that's that's what I was conditioned to believe.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I think, unfortunately, I don't know if

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Speaker 5: this is only reduced to to sport. I don't know

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Speaker 5: if this is reduced to being a man. I don't

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Speaker 5: know if this is just reduced to being a human

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Speaker 5: in the modern age when we're really worried about productivity,

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Speaker 5: but with the mentality of the show must go on,

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Speaker 5: I had, I had no regard for any sort of

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Speaker 5: self preservation. And you know, I'm just grateful that, you know,

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Speaker 5: I was saved by a couple moments where I had

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Speaker 5: a pause, a moment to think, and you know, I

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Speaker 5: spoke with people well, and eventually that just you know,

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Speaker 5: continually compounded and added more time intill eventually I was

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Speaker 5: in a healthier spot. And you know, it can be

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Speaker 5: in a moment like this where I can reflect on

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Speaker 5: that as opposed to succumbing to immediate thoughts that are

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Speaker 5: you know, harmful and detrimental.

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Speaker 3: And there's so much unpack here, but you realize if

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Speaker 3: you do, if you follow through in that suicide, it's

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Speaker 3: not just the show almost go on. Then the rest

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Speaker 3: of your those guys are family too. They got to

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Speaker 3: deal with that and carry that right. And a lot

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Speaker 3: of people don't see that. And I'm trying to listen,

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Speaker 3: I'm trying to villainize suicide because it's most too glorified

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Speaker 3: these days.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, oh absolutely, and it's and it's so I described

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Speaker 5: it as like, you know, the world's most convincing salesman. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: it is extremely especially like when you're when you're thinking

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Speaker 5: of it, it's it's extremely romanticized. And you know, of course,

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Speaker 5: and I don't know in art or literature, there's there's

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Speaker 5: such a you know, I think of like all the

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Speaker 5: World War there's like a lot of World War One

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Speaker 5: poets who know, there's one that says, you know, they'll

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Speaker 5: say it's a coora mescropatrimore, it is sweet and proper

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Speaker 5: to die for one's country. And I think it was

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Speaker 5: Zra Pound, But it's somebody just talking about how there's nothing,

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Speaker 5: there's nothing glorious about you know, dying. It's it's blood

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Speaker 5: dripping out of your mouth, it's foam and a bloated

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Speaker 5: face and bodies and it's a pretty wretched process. And

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Speaker 5: you know, it's of course something that everybody has to

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Speaker 5: go through. But I think I agree it is sort

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Speaker 5: of something that I think anything that sort of happens

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Speaker 5: behind the scenes, which I think, you know, mental health

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Speaker 5: and depression, suicide is something that sort of occurs behind

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Speaker 5: the curtain. It becomes glamorized because we don't see it,

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Speaker 5: and that's sort of been you know a mession of

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Speaker 5: mind where I was talking at an event I think

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Speaker 5: just a week ago, and you know, we were having

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Speaker 5: a panel underneath these on a big stage, underneath these

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Speaker 5: bright lights. And you take anything out to scrutinize it

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Speaker 5: underneath the bright lights, you sort it sort of loses

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Speaker 5: a lot of its luster. It stops becoming this really big,

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Speaker 5: mystifying thing, and you can grapple with it much easier.

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Speaker 5: And I hope that's a process that you know, in

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Speaker 5: pocket culture continues to be done.

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Speaker 3: I think that, you know, like I tell this to

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Speaker 3: a lot of our comment that's a lot of people nowadays. Look,

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Speaker 3: a lot of us think our lives suck way more

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Speaker 3: than we ever did because of social media. Right, we're

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Speaker 3: comparing ourselves to everybody else's.

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Speaker 2: Filter fraction of one second of one day, and like, well,

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Speaker 2: how come I'm not at that event? Why am I

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Speaker 2: not the successful?

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Speaker 3: Why am I are my dreams aren't come true? How

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Speaker 3: come I don't have that meal right? Or or we

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Speaker 3: just feel so left out, or we see so much

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Speaker 3: shit on Twitter. At the same time, when someone kills themselves,

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Speaker 3: all you're saying is, oh my gosh, it's outbouring love

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Speaker 3: so when your problems feel so intense, you go, well, shit,

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Speaker 3: Johnny just killed himself. Everybody's as well, right, I might

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Speaker 3: as well doing the same thing, for sure, to.

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Speaker 2: People like us to stop that narrative.

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Speaker 4: For sure.

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Speaker 5: And that's of course, you know, it's I don't know,

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Speaker 5: it's like, sure, you can get I don't know, as

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Speaker 5: much applause as you want, but it's a plus happening

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Speaker 5: in another room, like you've already left. There's you are

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Speaker 5: not you anymore, You're something else. You've you've reduced yourself

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Speaker 5: to something else, and you're not You're not there to

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Speaker 5: hear it. And you know, I understand, And that was

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Speaker 5: never really you know, fortunately for me, that was never

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Speaker 5: a pro on my pros and cons list of you know,

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Speaker 5: whatever amount of glory or recognition. But I think that

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Speaker 5: is something that is extremely tempting and glamorized. And I've

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Speaker 5: talked with a lot of parents who you know, you've

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Speaker 5: got there's a lot of young there's it's it's it's

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Speaker 5: endemic amongst young kids.

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Speaker 4: And I think.

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Speaker 5: Especially because there's a lot of kids deprived of attention,

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Speaker 5: and when you only see attention tributed to a child

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Speaker 5: doing you know, a bad action or god forbid suicide.

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Speaker 5: It's really easy as a young person, as a child,

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Speaker 5: to extrapolate that and think, you know, the only way

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Speaker 5: I can be deserving of any verbal, outspoken love is

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Speaker 5: to do something as drastic escimmits suicide. Unfortunately, which which

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Speaker 5: is something you know, I hope as parents communicate more

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Speaker 5: as is not the case.

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Speaker 3: When you went and talked to coach Day about it.

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Speaker 3: You have stepped away from the team, right, And when

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Speaker 3: did you go to a facility? Did you just step

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Speaker 3: away and continue your mental health journey? What what had

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Speaker 3: happened there?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I spoke with coach Day and we said,

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Speaker 5: you know, if you're if you're feeling this way, then

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Speaker 5: you know, perhaps you should take the day off. And

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Speaker 5: I said, you know, Coach Day, I've been feeling this

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Speaker 5: way for a long time time. The only difference is

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Speaker 5: now that you know about it. And so you know,

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Speaker 5: even after meeting with him, I practiced that day. Wow,

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Speaker 5: I had to practice the next day and I was

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Speaker 5: just mentally out of it, right, And it was something

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Speaker 5: where I could go through the motions, but you know,

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Speaker 5: to go through the motions and a sport like football

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Speaker 5: is really dangerous yeah, not to get hurt easy and

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Speaker 5: not let alone you know, if you if you miss

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Speaker 5: an assignment. But so that's when I sort of stepped away,

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Speaker 5: worked with sports psychology. But even then, sort of the

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Speaker 5: you know, we were operating under the assumption that you know,

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Speaker 5: this is a detour and this is something that's going

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Speaker 5: to be course corrected and eventually I'm going to be

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Speaker 5: back playing football. And we you know, the timetable even

253
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Speaker 5: looks like, you know, we're gonna get this fix in

254
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Speaker 5: two weeks and you'll be back playing football, and you know,

255
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Speaker 5: weeks pass, and this was a the most life threatening

256
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Speaker 5: injury there is, right, you know, So I worked with

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Speaker 5: I worked with sports psychology diligently and psychiatry over the

258
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Speaker 5: next few weeks. And I played a couple of games

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Speaker 5: that season, you know, between moments of you know, self

260
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Speaker 5: harm and suicide attempts, and played two games. Unfortunately, you know,

261
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Speaker 5: I tore my PCL completely, and you know, it was

262
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Speaker 5: actually really a godsend to be able to experience a

263
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Speaker 5: season ending physical injury because then it gave me the

264
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Speaker 5: excuse and because there were a lot of people speculating

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Speaker 5: about my health that fall, you know, making you know,

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Speaker 5: rumors or speculations about you know, vaccination or about you know,

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Speaker 5: bad conduct outside of football. So a lot of people

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Speaker 5: trying to speculate, you know, why isn't he playing? And

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Speaker 5: you know, fortunately this was sort of a you know,

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Speaker 5: it was it was a it was a card that

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Speaker 5: just covered everything and said he no, no, his knees

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Speaker 5: torn in half, so he can't play for the rest

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Speaker 5: of the season, which was actually tremendously useful because then

274
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Speaker 5: and I think, you know, I don't think I wanted

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Speaker 5: to admit at the time, but it gave me the

276
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Speaker 5: physical excuse to be with drawing and to fix myself mentally.

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Speaker 5: And so I did that process, and it was a

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Speaker 5: tear of my PCL and so that began to recover.

279
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Speaker 5: I healed that and then continued to heal mentally, and

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Speaker 5: then you know, come the next year, So that was

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty one, Come twenty twenty two, January February. You know,

282
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Speaker 5: it's it's becoming obvious that playing football is perhaps not

283
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Speaker 5: sustainable for me and that I should have met through

284
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Speaker 5: retire and so we began that process and in January

285
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Speaker 5: or February, I believe early on, but you know, there's

286
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Speaker 5: paperwork to go through. So even then, you know, I

287
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 5: had the paperwork going through to medical retire, but I

288
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Speaker 5: was still I was still working out with the team.

289
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Speaker 5: I had been voted to be like a unit leader

290
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Speaker 5: for you know, a group of you know, six to

291
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Speaker 5: seven guys, so you know, we were doing you know,

292
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Speaker 5: matturals and off season workouts. And I knew the whole

293
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Speaker 5: time that you know, I wasn't going to be playing

294
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Speaker 5: the following season, but I had been voted by my

295
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Speaker 5: peers to lead them. So I said, I'm going to

296
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Speaker 5: see this through. And the off season training ended, springball came,

297
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Speaker 5: and you know, there was no reason for me to

298
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Speaker 5: be taking up a spot wasting time. And you know,

299
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Speaker 5: I wasn't even going to publicly announce that, you know,

300
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Speaker 5: I was met through retiring. You know, I just didn't.

301
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Speaker 5: I didn't want to to have this attention ground. I

302
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Speaker 5: didn't want to make a spectacle of this thing. I

303
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Speaker 5: wanted to be you know, gracious of people's you know

304
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Speaker 5: time and space and just see myself out the door.

305
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Speaker 5: But again, there was a lot of people that springs

306
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Speaker 5: speculating because you know, and fairly like I sort of

307
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Speaker 5: disappear from the starting lineup. And that's when you know,

308
00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,079
Speaker 5: I released a letter, you know, stating that I was

309
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Speaker 5: medically retiring and stating why, and you know, thus started,

310
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Speaker 5: you know, that was sort of set a precedent of

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Speaker 5: me being able to advocate for mental health. And you know,

312
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Speaker 5: I've had a long experience with it. I've had a

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Speaker 5: severe experience with it, unfortunately, you know, and I think

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Speaker 5: it's tragic where I'm really grateful that, you know, I'm

315
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Speaker 5: the person where all this shit hit the fan, because unfortunately,

316
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Speaker 5: like I think, if this was you know, somebody at

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Speaker 5: say no to Power five school and they had the

318
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Speaker 5: exact same symptoms, this would be easily discredited as whatever.

319
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Speaker 5: And you know, I'm happy. I'm just I'm very grateful

320
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Speaker 5: that you know, I've done once, and I'm grateful that

321
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Speaker 5: I played football well because it legitimized the reality that

322
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Speaker 5: you know, yes, I mean i've even I've done all

323
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Speaker 5: of these things, but it doesn't matter, None of it matters.

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Speaker 4: This is real and this happens. And so you know,

325
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Speaker 4: I'm just really grateful.

326
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Speaker 3: High profile player, high profile program, which which ends up

327
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Speaker 3: giving it the attention that.

328
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Speaker 5: It deserves right right, which which I'm very grateful for

329
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Speaker 5: a couple of things here.

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Speaker 2: I like to describe.

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Speaker 3: So you know, I wrote my book so I can

332
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Speaker 3: give people the words to describe it, right, not just

333
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,480
Speaker 3: say mental health like weir all saying, Oh, I have

334
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:18,800
Speaker 3: mental health issues. So I'm trying to describe it so

335
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 3: people go, oh shit, I have that too. I feel

336
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Speaker 3: that also.

337
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Speaker 2: So for me, the way I describe it is and

338
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:27,680
Speaker 2: am I I'm sure like you.

339
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 3: Every day, every day is hard for me to get

340
00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,280
Speaker 3: out of bed, and I wake up every single morning

341
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,560
Speaker 3: feeling like fucking sky is falling.

342
00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:35,880
Speaker 2: It's gray.

343
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 3: I feel it on bad days, and my joints on

344
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 3: the left side of my gut, behind my rib cage.

345
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 3: I feel like everybody wants bad from me, like the

346
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,520
Speaker 3: universe hates me, and I know the universe doesn't, like

347
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,160
Speaker 3: the universe is on our side.

348
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Speaker 2: What does it feel like for you? If you could

349
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,120
Speaker 2: describe it?

350
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Speaker 5: I think for me a lot of times are the

351
00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:03,120
Speaker 5: spelling it's terribly unworthy. And even for me when when

352
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 5: I wanted to I wanted to kill myself, it was

353
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 5: I still maintained a real reverence, a real piety for

354
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,280
Speaker 5: the universe, for the creator. What have you and I

355
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,000
Speaker 5: sort of viewed it as I was just in the

356
00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 5: way I was, I was taking up space, and it's

357
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,520
Speaker 5: sort of like it felt like an early morning when

358
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 5: you get up and the world is still and nothing's

359
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,640
Speaker 5: happened yet, Like there's this just this serene body of

360
00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:30,160
Speaker 5: water that doesn't have a single ripple on it, and I.

361
00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 4: Felt like I was just just.

362
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,040
Speaker 5: Wading through it and making such a mess of everything.

363
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 5: And it was something where I would have I would

364
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,720
Speaker 5: have held my breath forever just to keep that moment perfect,

365
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 5: just to keep you know, everything serene. But for me,

366
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 5: I just felt I felt gargaged, and I felt like

367
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,560
Speaker 5: Godzilla wandering through a city and just doing everything so

368
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,200
Speaker 5: terribly wrong, whether it be you know, your relationships or

369
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,880
Speaker 5: what have you, and it just makes you feel quite awful.

370
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:58,600
Speaker 5: And you know, I never felt I was never angry,

371
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 5: but I always just felt I felt tremendously guilty. And

372
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 5: of course it's it's a positive feedback loop where I

373
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,520
Speaker 5: don't know, you feel awful, so then it feels like

374
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,240
Speaker 5: you're doing awful, which makes you feel more awful, and

375
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 5: the only evidence you can find confirms you know your

376
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 5: worst thoughts of yourself. I don't know, I just became

377
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,520
Speaker 5: It's almost And what's so difficult with suicide is that

378
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,120
Speaker 5: you know, you you caricaterize this, you know, villain version

379
00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 5: of yourself, and yet that version is the most representative

380
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:30,920
Speaker 5: form of you. And you know, I remember as I

381
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 5: got to stand it, but I began to wonder, you know,

382
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 5: would this even be suicide? Because I don't even feel

383
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,840
Speaker 5: like I'd be killing myself anymore and be killing somebody else.

384
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:40,560
Speaker 5: I'd be killing something else that is not me. And

385
00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 5: of course the conundrum of suicide is that it's like

386
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,880
Speaker 5: being chased, you know, by a person who wants to

387
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 5: kill you. But if you kill that person, then you'll

388
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 5: also die. So the only way you can get out

389
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,520
Speaker 5: of this is to love that person so convincingly that

390
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 5: they don't want to kill you anymore, which is a

391
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 5: real difficult paradox to be placed them, especially when you

392
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,800
Speaker 5: feel so unequipped to love, considering your only experience is

393
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 5: feeling unworthy of such a thing.

394
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:07,320
Speaker 4: Right.

395
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 5: I remember, you know, I'd read as a as a

396
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 5: as a kid. You know, you'd read excerpts of the

397
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 5: Bible that would say, you know, I was always fascinated

398
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,560
Speaker 5: by you know, perhaps at the Annunciation when Gabriel, Gabriel

399
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 5: speaks to Mary and he says, you know, be not

400
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 5: afraid or you hear people hear about people cowering at

401
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 5: the feet of God because they're afraid. And I would

402
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,199
Speaker 5: always wonder, why, what reason would you have to be

403
00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,840
Speaker 5: afraid of love? But then as an adult, I totally

404
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:33,000
Speaker 5: get it because I do it.

405
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 4: All the time.

406
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,360
Speaker 5: And you know, I think we're afraid of fearful things,

407
00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,440
Speaker 5: but I think we're more afraid of loving things. And

408
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 5: I've sort of chalked the whole experience up to you

409
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 5: know what I call the birthday song phenomenon, where when

410
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 5: you're surrounded by people who love you telling you how

411
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,200
Speaker 5: much they love you, it makes you feel squeamish.

412
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 3: It makes your holy shit, I'm getting right now say it.

413
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,439
Speaker 2: I'm having a hard time with it. Yep, Oh my gosh.

414
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 5: It feels and I think and a brober concept of life.

415
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,280
Speaker 5: It's like, the conversations I fear the most are the

416
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,280
Speaker 5: ones where I'm just going to be honest and tell

417
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 5: somebody that I care about them and appreciate them and

418
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,320
Speaker 5: love them. And of course those are the conversations we

419
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 5: need the most. But we feel the most unequipped to

420
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,720
Speaker 5: give to say, and so sort of you know, my remedy,

421
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,959
Speaker 5: through my personal remedy for myself was to love myself

422
00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,080
Speaker 5: in a way I felt unequipped to do so. And

423
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 5: then of course in my conduct towards others, I've tried

424
00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 5: to do the same right where. It's so funny when

425
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:29,640
Speaker 5: somebody comes up to you and they explain how their

426
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:32,159
Speaker 5: sky is falling, you just want to tell them that, like,

427
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 5: I love you so much, it's going to be okay,

428
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 5: Like no matter what, it's going to be okay. And

429
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,080
Speaker 5: then they say, you know, but what about your skin?

430
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 5: It's like, oh no, my sky is totally falling. There's

431
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,919
Speaker 5: no way anybody can do anything about this. And I

432
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 5: don't you know, I don't know if that's I don't

433
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,600
Speaker 5: know if that's prit I don't know if that's just

434
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 5: you know, a limited human perspective. But it's something that

435
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 5: I've tried to have more Grayson on the day to day.

436
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:51,680
Speaker 2: That's amazing.

437
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And do the guilt we have is that you know,

438
00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,960
Speaker 3: that little kid just feeling like with this bad person,

439
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,480
Speaker 3: like you're saying in the way, and that's something that

440
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,239
Speaker 3: I've finally begun to heal this year. I'm gonna tell

441
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 3: you a little thing that maybe you could do for yourself,

442
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,480
Speaker 3: and going to try not to cry. Why I say it,

443
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 3: And fuck, I'm gonna try not to make you cry.

444
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,240
Speaker 3: Every time I tell somebody in the NFL the story.

445
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 2: They start crying. Yeah, said I told this to the Rock.

446
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:14,840
Speaker 2: He started crying.

447
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,439
Speaker 3: But I went to Thailand go meet with these monks, right,

448
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 3: So I go train muy Thai in the jungle last

449
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 3: year for thirty five nuts.

450
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,560
Speaker 2: I was in a bad place when I wrote this book.

451
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 3: I stopped all my treatment for a while because I

452
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 3: wanted to be as raw as I could.

453
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,919
Speaker 2: And that was not a good fucking idea. Yeah, that

454
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 2: says him. It's dangerous for me and others. Not good.

455
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 3: So it took me a while to really get out

456
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,199
Speaker 3: of this and I had to go do extreme. I know,

457
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 3: we all can go to Thailand for thirty five days,

458
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,359
Speaker 3: and thank god I was able to. I went to

459
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 3: a place out there that works on mind, body, spirit

460
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:50,240
Speaker 3: and kind of cleans you up from inflammation, works in

461
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 3: your body, like I said, it really works on your

462
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:52,800
Speaker 3: soul and your spirit.

463
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,720
Speaker 2: And I meet with these monks and they're like your

464
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,679
Speaker 2: therapists and coaches.

465
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: And I was just talking so self loathing about myself

466
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 3: and they said, hey, listen this we want you to

467
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 3: do three days. We want you to sit in your pain.

468
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,399
Speaker 3: And I said, I sent my pain every day. They said, no,

469
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,399
Speaker 3: you experience your pain like we want you to sit.

470
00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,400
Speaker 2: In and feeling it. And they said, when you're doing it,

471
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,359
Speaker 2: what did you call yourself as a little kid growing

472
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,280
Speaker 2: up with a jay? I said no, Jason.

473
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 3: I said, okay, when you are sitting there like we

474
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,920
Speaker 3: want you to sit and what hurts you the most

475
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,719
Speaker 3: is cause you the most pain. Want you sit in

476
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:34,400
Speaker 3: that pain and hold little Jason's hand, and we want

477
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,720
Speaker 3: you to visualize that and put yourn around him and

478
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 3: show him some compassion because he hasn't had enough. And man,

479
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 3: I didn't understand what they were talking about for the

480
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 3: first two and then I finally did it started healing him.

481
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 2: It was liberating.

482
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 3: And you talked about that as a little kid, But

483
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 3: I think even now we need to go back and

484
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,080
Speaker 3: heal that little kid in you.

485
00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,399
Speaker 2: Right and me that that.

486
00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 3: Went through all that shit got us to view things

487
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 3: about ourselves.

488
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: It just wasn't true.

489
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 5: It's so funny say, because I also say, you know,

490
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 5: I like to sit in my pin, and yet sometimes

491
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 5: there is such a pride attached to our feelings. And

492
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 5: you know, I think about, you know, when if water

493
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 5: were to run over my skin, I would say, you know,

494
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 5: I feel the current, or if the air blows, I

495
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 5: would say I feel the wind. But I wouldn't say,

496
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 5: you know, I am the wind, I am the water.

497
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 5: And yet when I feel sad, I say I am sad,

498
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 5: and when I feel angry, I say I am angry.

499
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:35,440
Speaker 5: And I take such ownership of passing sentiments, right. And

500
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 5: you know I've I've really tried to to not do that,

501
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 5: and I've tried to sit in my pan, but never

502
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 5: with you know, visualizing, you know, a younger version of myself, right,

503
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 5: which I think. And you use the word compassion, which

504
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 5: I think is such a beautiful word because I remember

505
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,919
Speaker 5: another I was always fascinated as a child with the

506
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 5: terminology of, you know, the passion of Christ. I thought

507
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 5: passion is such a peculiar word to use with that

508
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 5: because it sounds so painful, and for me, I always

509
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 5: viewed passion as a very positive thing of you know,

510
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 5: the doing anything you doing something you love, right, And

511
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 5: I looked it up and it said that passion came

512
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,919
Speaker 5: from the Latin root patty, which means suffering and comb

513
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 5: meaning with And so compassion doesn't mean to share and

514
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 5: enjoy or pleasure, means to share and pain and suffering.

515
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 5: And I think it's such a beautiful thing. And especially

516
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 5: if I think compassion is the highest form of love,

517
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 5: then love is nothing more than being willing to hurt

518
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 5: with somebody. And so for me to love myself, I

519
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 5: just need to be able to sit with myself and

520
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 5: feel these things and hurt with myself and be okay

521
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 5: with it and not try to, I don't know, not

522
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,160
Speaker 5: try to blame people, not try to be angry at people,

523
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 5: especially in the person you know I blame and I

524
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 5: get angry with the most of myself, right, which is

525
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 5: such an unfortunate circumstance.

526
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 3: Right, that's where you get to start putting you arm

527
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 3: around little heart, right and hold his hand because you

528
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 3: deserve it, man, right.

529
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: And it really did change me. It helped me so much,

530
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,120
Speaker 2: and it's still something I do.

531
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 3: I still, Yeah, Well lay myself down at night and

532
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: I'll say, Okay, I'm gonna take this time and sometimes five.

533
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 2: Minutes, sometimes an hour, but all it takes me.

534
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 3: Sometimes the ad takes a long time to come down,

535
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: so I could.

536
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: Get there too.

537
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 3: But once I get there, man it like my girl noticed,

538
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 3: it's a game changer for me for that week.

539
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is good for me. A good week is terrific. Yeah.

540
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 3: Do you now realize, like what a blessing you are

541
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 3: like to be able to use your pain to help others?

542
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 2: Do theirs be able to feel that?

543
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 5: I try in moments yes, and then in moments no.

544
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 5: And that's the hardest thing about about pain And sort

545
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 5: of like I and it's sort of just this sensation

546
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 5: where brings you more and more into yourself, you know,

547
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 5: I view it as like I don't know, I'm in

548
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 5: this box and the box is shaking, and I just

549
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 5: I shrink smaller, smaller and smaller. And yet the only

550
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 5: way to make something of your pain is to remove

551
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 5: yourself from it. There's a and it's and it's so

552
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 5: difficult because again, pain calls you so immensely present, and

553
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 5: to be able to have a sentiment like gratitude requires

554
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 5: a real omniscience. It requires you not to be so

555
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 5: so overwhelmingly present and requires a real peace and grace.

556
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 5: And yet you know, pain is the thing that makes

557
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 5: it the hardest thing to do, and so it's hard then,

558
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 5: you know, it almost feels like if you're making a

559
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 5: profession of pain, and as you've talked about, like you know,

560
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 5: writing your book, when to have to you know, cozy

561
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 5: up with things that are quite uncomfortable to make real

562
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 5: friends with, with some pretty unagreeable monsters. You know, I've

563
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 5: I've felt like when I when I'm creative, it sort

564
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,720
Speaker 5: of feels like playing with like a dog with rabies,

565
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 5: where it's like having a dog sled where every dog

566
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 5: has rabies and it's like they pour really hard and

567
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 5: they're really useful and they gave me where I need

568
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 5: to go, but you better be careful playing with them.

569
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 5: And so I think, you know, in the in the

570
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 5: effort of helping others, it is so extremely rewarding, right,

571
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 5: And it's yes, it's it's so it's the best thing

572
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 5: you can do.

573
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: Are are you able to feel it now? Yes? Yeah? Good,

574
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 2: good good. That's what I want to do.

575
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: That's what to make sure and that's what people say, Well,

576
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 3: you have this, you know, you make money off.

577
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: Your book is.

578
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 3: Fucking damn right, I do. It's my suffering, right, there's

579
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 3: no shit like we went through it. You know, it's

580
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,199
Speaker 3: your suffering. We get to now do what we want

581
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 3: and helping others for me is the you know, being

582
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 3: the service is huge for me.

583
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: But I've always used being of service to offset the

584
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: roommates in my head tell me how shitty it was, right,

585
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 2: that's one thing.

586
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 3: Well, maybe because I always felt like it was a

587
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: horrible person. I got this pain, so I must be

588
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 3: a terrible person. It's my punishment. And now it's like

589
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: I used to, well, let me do these great things

590
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 3: and being of service so it could offset what got

591
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 3: me to think I was so bad. But now this

592
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 3: being of service, now when I hear people say, God,

593
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 3: you've saved my life. You've changed my life for You've

594
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: got me to connect with my son or daughter, and

595
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 3: it's been It definitely gets me to see blue and

596
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 3: lists me up. Are you able to tell me about

597
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 3: some of these messages you now get from people and

598
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 3: how it makes.

599
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 5: You feel makes me feel the same way. And I've

600
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 5: received good he deserves it the messages.

601
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 4: But it's fucking cool. It is very cool. And I'm

602
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 4: very grateful.

603
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: I just think the thing I'm grateful for most was,

604
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 5: you know, there was there was a thing, or there

605
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 5: was a person I was looking for when I was

606
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 5: going through something right. And I remember in the spring

607
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 5: before I met we retired, there was a student athlete

608
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 5: committing suicide every other week, and I would I were

609
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 5: talking to my sports psychologist, and I felt like somebody

610
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 5: was pulling a joke on us. It felt so absurd,

611
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 5: and it felt and it felt like, you know, surely

612
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 5: somebody has to say something. And I think that's sort

613
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 5: of the just somebody has to be saying just somebody

614
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,399
Speaker 5: has to say something. And I think everybody's afraid of

615
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 5: just being a somebody. But it's so easy to be

616
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 5: a somebody. Anybody can be just somebody. Fortunately I was

617
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 5: a person who could be just as somebody. And you know,

618
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 5: I had no glorious intentions. And of course, when I

619
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 5: was feeling the things I was feeling so drastically and

620
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,400
Speaker 5: so awfully, you know, there was no Unfortunately, I viewed

621
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 5: it as as almost a martyrdom. When I was depressed

622
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 5: and I was thinking, you know, the only way I

623
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,919
Speaker 5: can get resources, the only way I can get visibility

624
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 5: to this issue is to sacrifice myself. And of course,

625
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 5: you know, perhaps I would have if I wasn't so

626
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 5: busy between engineering and football. Perhaps I would have if

627
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 5: I you know, I don't know if like while you're

628
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 5: reading your book, like you know, I like to write,

629
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 5: and I just I love to edit and I can't

630
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 5: stop editing. So it's like I couldn't even conceive of

631
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 5: writing a suicide note because I wouldn't be able to

632
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 5: come up with the final draft. I would be thinking,

633
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,000
Speaker 5: you know, I can't use this word. I've I have

634
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,719
Speaker 5: to put a paragraph here, and do you think like

635
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 5: that right? And that's sort of funny because that life

636
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,239
Speaker 5: becomes this beautiful daily suicide note where you say, you know,

637
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 5: this is me, this is what I'm doing, this is

638
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 5: what I believe, and you know, hopefully there comes a

639
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 5: day where you know, death sneaks up on you and

640
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 5: it's and it's not when you're sad, it's when you're

641
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 5: really grateful, when you're really happy, and then when it's

642
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 5: all said and done, you've you've put together a living

643
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 5: suicide note that is nothing more than a statement of

644
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 5: the things that you cared about the people that you helped,

645
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 5: and that's something that you know, I'm grateful that I

646
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 5: had the pause and the reprieve to get from moment

647
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 5: to moment until eventually I could say, you know, I'm

648
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 5: I'm grateful that I'm here. I bought myself time, and

649
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 5: I'm grateful that I did right. And it just lets

650
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 5: you you know, you don't have to The bright side

651
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 5: is if you if you don't like the suicide note

652
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 5: you write today, you get up tomorrow and you're.

653
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 4: Allowed to write it again.

654
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 5: And whereas if you if you commit to it, if

655
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 5: you commit to suicide, that's final addition.

656
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 4: There are no annotations. That's it.

657
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 5: And God, I would hate if somebody would find write

658
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 5: a typo in your suicide note, because then it's just

659
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 5: what a bummer that is. So it's a great thing

660
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 5: to be able to live and to be able to

661
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 5: have a constant, editing power over your life.

662
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: I love what you said before. Man, it gave me chills.

663
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: But you know, everybody could be a somebody, right, and

664
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: that's one of the most powerful things anybody's ever said

665
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: on the podcast.

666
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 4: Really appreciate that.

667
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was wow, man, that was incredible.

668
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,120
Speaker 3: Before I let you go and you might have already

669
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 3: said this or not, but I ask all my guests

670
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 3: give me your unbreakable moment, like, yeah, you know, the

671
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 3: moment that should have broken you didn't.

672
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: You came through the other side of that tunnel. As

673
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: a result, you'll be better and stronger for the rest

674
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 2: of your life.

675
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 5: That's a great question, because I think there are a

676
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 5: lot of moments that are that hurt, but are not unbreakable,

677
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 5: and I think you need to be broken.

678
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: You know, I'm a senior in engineering, and you know,

679
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 4: I was. I was.

680
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 5: I was reading an email that had been shared with

681
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,959
Speaker 5: me about this podcast, and and I identified. You know,

682
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 5: in engineering, there's something called the stress strain curve. And

683
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 5: stress is a force applied over an area. You know,

684
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 5: you can view it as pressing your hand on to

685
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,959
Speaker 5: something right, you apply a pressure that's a stress strain.

686
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 5: Is the physical dislocations, the deformation of something right, and

687
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 5: it's it's it's the tearing of molecular bonds, it's the

688
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,400
Speaker 5: restructuring of the material. And in this stress and strain curve,

689
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 5: there's an elastic region and there's a plastic region. In

690
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 5: the elastic region, if you apply a certain stress and

691
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 5: you remove the stress. It's going to go back to the.

692
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 4: Way it was before. Nothing changes.

693
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 5: And there's the plastic region, or when you apply a

694
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 5: stress beyond a yield point, which is what delineates between

695
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 5: elastic and plastic, this yield strength. Once you apply a

696
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 5: stress greater than that, you now have permanent deformation. You

697
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 5: now have permanent change. So say that that unit is

698
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 5: yield strength, it is ten passals, two, three, four, five.

699
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 5: That might be painful, but that's not going to change you.

700
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 5: Six seven, eight nine. It's getting close, but it's not

701
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 5: going to change you. Then comes eleven passals, and the

702
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 5: atomic structure of you is changing permanently, and it hurts

703
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 5: so bad. That's the only way that you're going to

704
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: get permanent deformation. That's the only way you're going to

705
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 5: be able to change. And when you apply a plastic

706
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 5: change to a metal, let's say steal, that metal is

707
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 5: now going to be harder, it's going to be stronger

708
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 5: and have increased strength. And it's the only way. That's

709
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 5: how you machine, that's how you make cars, that's how

710
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 5: you make buildings, is you have to machine these metals

711
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 5: into these rigid structures. Right, and so for me, I

712
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 5: think my unbreakable moment, my moment where I have to

713
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 5: pass my yield strength and became something different.

714
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 4: You know.

715
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 5: I had a moment of self harm where I was

716
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: I was taking a box cutter to my neck and

717
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 5: I was bleeding, and for a moment, I thought I

718
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 5: had cut too deeply, and I thought, you know, I

719
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 5: had really booked my ticket, like this is it.

720
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 4: And for a moment I was really terrified, like little

721
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 4: kid terrified.

722
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, like I just I just broke

723
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 5: Dad's vase, like this is this is it? You know,

724
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 5: sort of held my breath for a moment. Nothing happened,

725
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 5: And that night I went to sleep, and my entire

726
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 5: life I had viewed as this long table with all

727
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 5: the people I loved sitting there around me. Really beautiful moment,

728
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 5: right And in this dream, I was there. I was

729
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 5: in heaven and it was a long table and all

730
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 5: the people I loved were there, but there were empty

731
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 5: seats all around me. Right next to me, and all

732
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 5: the people who had ever hurt me in my life

733
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 5: came up to me and we apologized to each other

734
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 5: about all the things we did not know in our life.

735
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 5: And they were my first guests at the table and

736
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 5: I woke up. I had this experience wow, and I

737
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 5: was just very great, and I was filled with, you know,

738
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 5: this overcoming feeling of forgiveness for myself and for others.

739
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 5: You know, from that point, when things were really bad,

740
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 5: I would just think of that moment. I would think,

741
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 5: you know, there is a place like this, somewhere where

742
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 5: everything is forgiven. I forgive everybody, I forgive myself. It's okay,

743
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 5: and you know, eventually it's however many months, how many

744
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 5: every years removed. You know, I had, I had surpassed

745
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 5: my yield strength. I had been plastically deformed to become

746
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 5: stronger and harder than I was. And I needed to

747
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 5: be right because if I wasn't, then I wouldn't have

748
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 5: made it. But I took it. You know, you took

749
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 5: your you took your prescription of punishment, and it makes

750
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 5: you something better. And so for me, that was my

751
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 5: unbreakable moment.

752
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: Man.

753
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 3: That is well, first of all, that's the smartest way

754
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:50,239
Speaker 3: anybody's ever described and unbreakable moment inadequate metal far. But

755
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: it's also one of the deepest things I've I've heard. Man,

756
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 3: I appreciate you know, I'm I'm so glad you didn't

757
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: go deeper on that box cutter. It's too man, there's

758
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 3: so many other people you're gonna help. But now you

759
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 3: and I get to walk this walk together, move forward,

760
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: and I'm proud of that, dude. I'm proud to have

761
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: you as a teammate of mind.

762
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 2: Dude.

763
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for this opportunity and for putting

764
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 5: the Soul podcast and all of these things together.

765
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely, man, and again we're man, We'll just start. You know,

766
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: I just talked to the NFL recently and said, you know,

767
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: what else can we do? I said, Man, you guys

768
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: are probably ten years behind of the lot where you

769
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: got to be, you know, because.

770
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: We're not even scratching the surface.

771
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 3: But because we have somebody's like you, were able to

772
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 3: scratch the surface a lot better and open up conversations.

773
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: But we don't really know where to.

774
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 3: Go yet, right, But we got to get us there

775
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 3: because that's we all deserve, right man, Harry, I really

776
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 3: appreciate you, brother. I'm going to send you my phone

777
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: number man on on uh, I'll damn it to you.

778
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 3: And hey, you got a teammate to walk this walk

779
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 3: with you.

780
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 4: I really appreciate that yes, thank you up too,