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Speaker 3: New York certainly has been a busy town today is
Speaker 3: this morning near Trump Tower. There were a lot of
Speaker 3: protesters and a lot of media present as Donald Trump
Speaker 3: gave his day after press conference after being found guilty
Speaker 3: on thirty four felony accounts of falsifying business records. He
Speaker 3: had much to say, including flexing his ability to fundraise
Speaker 3: off of this verdict. Here he was earlier this morning.
Speaker 4: Last night, we just got to report this morning. In
Speaker 4: the history of politics, I believe maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Somebody will find that I'm wrong. Maybe, but I don't
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 4: They raised with small money donors, meaning like twenty one dollars,
Speaker 4: forty two dollars, fifty three dollars, thirty eight dollars, a
Speaker 4: record thirty nine million dollars in about a ten.
Speaker 1: Hour period, raising tens of millions of dollars off the conviction.
Speaker 1: By the way, the official number we got earlier was
Speaker 1: thirty four point eight. Maybe they're making more according to
Speaker 1: the President though, as he says, maybe someone will tell
Speaker 1: him that he's wrong. But it was it was a
Speaker 1: meandering speechers built as a news conference a press conference, Kaylee.
Speaker 1: Not one question was taken from a reporter, and there
Speaker 1: was laughter in the crowd when he called Joe Biden
Speaker 1: the dumbest president in American history. So it's difficult to
Speaker 1: tell what the media contingent was compared to supporters who
Speaker 1: were in the room there. But we have a lot
Speaker 1: of questions about what's next for Donald Trump. He just
Speaker 1: got through the throws here of the verdicts. He's speaking
Speaker 1: to the American people today. Now what the answer, by
Speaker 1: the way, will include a meeting with approbation officer, and
Speaker 1: we want to bring in Jim's Iron, the former assistant
Speaker 1: US Attorney for the Southern District of New York. It's
Speaker 1: been awfully helpful with us through each stage of this trial.
Speaker 1: Is that the case, Jim? Will that be the next
Speaker 1: phase here for Donald Trump as his legal team cooks
Speaker 1: up an appeal.
Speaker 5: Well, I think the next phase, you're absolutely right, is
Speaker 5: going to be an investigation by the Probation Department of
Speaker 5: the Court. There'll be a report to the judge, and
Speaker 5: then the judge first is going to entertain motions to
Speaker 5: dismiss the case, which pro form emotions and will undoubtedly
Speaker 5: be denied. The judge will impose sentence, and following the
Speaker 5: imposition of sentence, which I think is January July eleventh,
Speaker 5: the appellate process can begin.
Speaker 3: Okay, so jim. While that process is happening, can I
Speaker 3: just get a point of clarification while all of that
Speaker 3: is under is Donald Trump still under the gag order?
Speaker 3: Because he seemed to suggest so during his news conference
Speaker 3: earlier today, yet also appeared to say a bunch of
Speaker 3: disparaging things about Michael Cohen, which theoretically could be in
Speaker 3: violation of the gag order. So where exactly does that
Speaker 3: stand here?
Speaker 5: The gag order is still in place. He must not
Speaker 5: disparage the witnesses, court personnel, or the jurors. I think
Speaker 5: if he goes after the jurors, it'll be another citation
Speaker 5: for contempt in addition to the twenty or so citations
Speaker 5: that he now has. The judge seemed to be lenient
Speaker 5: with regard to disparagement of Michael Cohen. Where Cohen had
Speaker 5: attacked him, he had some sort of right of retort.
Speaker 5: So although he didn't identify Cohen by name, it was
Speaker 5: obviously he was talking about Cohen, called him a sleeves bag,
Speaker 5: and he undoubtedly was advised or felt that he had
Speaker 5: a certain latitude in attacking Cohen, who's been on television
Speaker 5: attacking him.
Speaker 1: Jim, We heard a lot about the trial itself from
Speaker 1: Donald Trump earlier said it was very unfair when the
Speaker 1: government wanted something that got everything they wanted. We wanted
Speaker 1: a venue change, we didn't get it. I paid a lawyer,
Speaker 1: totally legal. He says, it's a legal expense, not sheet rock,
Speaker 1: It's not construction. It's a legal expense. What would you
Speaker 1: say back to Donald Trump after what just transpired in
Speaker 1: court the last seven weeks, Well.
Speaker 5: Tell me what legal services Cohen rendered. The jury believed Cohen.
Speaker 5: We have to accept that. And the expense was incurred
Speaker 5: to cloak in secrecy, the payment to the poorinn Star
Speaker 5: Stormy Daniels to cover up the tryst. No legal service
Speaker 5: were involved. This was arranged by Michael Cohen, and he
Speaker 5: was the fixer, the arranger, the enforcer for Donald Trump,
Speaker 5: and in fact, he went to jail over this very
Speaker 5: transaction because he was indicted for it in the federal court.
Speaker 3: Yeah, indeed, And of course the fact that he was
Speaker 3: indicted and many other things came to light over the
Speaker 3: course of the trial or certainly were made note of repeatedly.
Speaker 3: To go back to something else, Joe was just talking about, though,
Speaker 3: in terms of what Donald Trump said this morning about
Speaker 3: what he perceived to be unfairness with the way all
Speaker 3: of this played out. He had a few specific assertions
Speaker 3: about what wasn't allowed to happen in the courtroom, what
Speaker 3: testimony could not be heard from certain witnesses that he wanted.
Speaker 3: Is any of this, any of that going to have
Speaker 3: merit in the appeal process.
Speaker 5: I don't think so. And whatever he asserts in the
Speaker 5: appeal process, he'll have to back up with facts, which
Speaker 5: he hasn't done this thirty three minute rant you just
Speaker 5: heard Trump Tower. It is not true that his witnesses
Speaker 5: were not permitted to testify. He wanted to call a
Speaker 5: campaign finance expert, and the judge allowed it, but narrow
Speaker 5: the scope of what he was going to be allowed
Speaker 5: to testify about. And that's standard practice. The law had
Speaker 5: to come from the judge. It doesn't come from an expert.
Speaker 5: Otherwise you'd have a battle of experts, and that would
Speaker 5: preempt what the jury is supposed to do.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump also talked to you about his decision, or
Speaker 1: at least what we thought was his decision to not testify.
Speaker 1: He said, I would have testified. This is a quote.
Speaker 1: I wanted to testify. The theory is though, you never testify,
Speaker 1: but I would have loved to. What would have happened
Speaker 1: if he chose to testify.
Speaker 5: I think if he'd taken the stand. Number one, he
Speaker 5: would have been cross examined on the substance of the
Speaker 5: transaction and his role in the transaction, and there he
Speaker 5: would have had to admit his role, which was a
Speaker 5: contested issue in the case, or he would have been
Speaker 5: faced with further charges of perjury. Secondly, the judge did
Speaker 5: allow limited cross examination. He made that in response to
Speaker 5: emotion that is always made at the beginning of the trial,
Speaker 5: and he said there were certain areas that the prosecutor
Speaker 5: could go into if Trump took the sand and certain
Speaker 5: which had bearing on credibility, and there were other areas
Speaker 5: he was not going to allow the prosecutor to go
Speaker 5: into So there's the so called bias judge making rulings
Speaker 5: in favor of Trump.
Speaker 3: Well, and certainly the biased judge or the corrupt judge
Speaker 3: to use whatever language that Donald Trump has been using
Speaker 3: to describe one Mrshawn as well as the idea that
Speaker 3: this was, as he repeatedly has said a source funded
Speaker 3: district attorney in Alvin Bragg, the idea that all of
Speaker 3: this was brought upon him for political reasons. I feel
Speaker 3: like it's worth just making it clear, though, Jim, even
Speaker 3: if that were true, if these charges should never have
Speaker 3: been brought, as Trump and many other Republicans have said,
Speaker 3: the fact that a jury found enough merit in the
Speaker 3: evidence to convict him in all thirty four counts should
Speaker 3: that then therefore essentially make moot that entire point, because
Speaker 3: even if you question the motive of these charges being brought,
Speaker 3: ultimately twelve everyday Americans that the defense agreed could serve
Speaker 3: as adequate jurors decided Trump was guilty of these crimes.
Speaker 5: Well, in the first place, the charges were brought by
Speaker 5: a grand jury in New York County. We don't know
Speaker 5: how many of those grand jurors, I suppose there were
Speaker 5: twenty three of them were Republicans. We don't know how
Speaker 5: many of them like Trump. We just don't know what
Speaker 5: their biases and prejudice were. They have said again and
Speaker 5: again and perpetuated the lie that Bragg ran for office
Speaker 5: on a platform of getting Donald Trump. That's not true.
Speaker 5: In fact, he avoided discussing the Trump case when he
Speaker 5: was running in the primaries, and he got the Democratic nomination,
Speaker 5: which is tantamount to election. So you can say that
Speaker 5: Bragg brought these charges because he was a biased prosecutor
Speaker 5: determined to get Trump, or he was fulfilling a campaign promise.
Speaker 5: Letitia James, the attorney General, did run for office on
Speaker 5: a promise she was going to get Trump, but that's
Speaker 5: a different question. Bragg, I think showed tremendous courage here.
Speaker 5: He's been a great district attorney. Crime is down, contrary
Speaker 5: to what Trump says, and Bragg was very reluctant to
Speaker 5: bring these charges until they were totally vetted and investigated.
Speaker 5: In fact, the fraud charges which were the subject of
Speaker 5: a civil case Letitia James brought against Trump, were not
Speaker 5: brought by Alvin Bragg. He declined on those charges. He
Speaker 5: went with these charges because he believed that this would
Speaker 5: lead to a successful prosecution. He was vilified, he was
Speaker 5: called a racist, he was attacked, and he went ahead.
Speaker 5: He's really a profile and courage and the case before
Speaker 5: a judge in a court of law, and it was
Speaker 5: presented to a jury and the jury unanimously convicted and
Speaker 5: Bragg is completely vindicated.
Speaker 1: Well, lastly, Jim, you know it's our job to ask
Speaker 1: you what you think is going to happen at sentencing.
Speaker 1: Is Donald Trump, or we to believe, going to be
Speaker 1: slicing garlic at Rikers Island?
Speaker 5: I think it's entirely possible because in sentencing, the judge
Speaker 5: takes into account a number of factors. There is the
Speaker 5: factor of Trump's age. He's seven years old. That's in
Speaker 5: his favor. Unlikely to sentence a seventy seven year old
Speaker 5: man to jail. Trump even in his press conference spoke
Speaker 5: about his age, and then realizing that he used that
Speaker 5: weapon against Joe Biden, he sort of pulled away from it.
Speaker 5: There's the point that Trump has never been convicted of anything. Well,
Speaker 5: he's never been convicted of anything because he's managed to
Speaker 5: delay the three other trials that would be had against
Speaker 5: him in the federal two in the Federal court and
Speaker 5: in Illinois. What would be against him is the panoply
Speaker 5: of civil cases where he's been found liable, including the
Speaker 5: Egene Carroll case where he was adjudicated a sexual abuser
Speaker 5: where he defamed a woman with any basis whatsoever, and
Speaker 5: the civil fraud case where judgment was entered against him
Speaker 5: for a half billion dollars. So those are factors which
Speaker 5: would militate in favor of a jail sentence. Plus the
Speaker 5: fact that Trump is a public figure, and is a
Speaker 5: public figure who engaged in a corrupt and illegal act
Speaker 5: in order to win the twenty sixteen election. And when
Speaker 5: a public figure engages in conduct like that, judges like
Speaker 5: to make an example of them, make an example of them,
Speaker 5: because it will deter such conduct in the future, raither
Speaker 5: on his part or the part of other people who
Speaker 5: were seeking public office.
Speaker 3: All right, Jimsyron, it's always great to get your perspective.
Speaker 3: You've been with us through the very beginning, and it's
Speaker 3: great to have you back now that this has reached
Speaker 3: a conclusion, although the appeals process still needs to play out.
Speaker 3: Jim Zyron, former Assistant US attorney for the Southern District
Speaker 3: of New York. We appreciate your time, and now we
Speaker 3: want to consider the political ramifications here and bring in
Speaker 3: our signature political panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzy no
Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, as we said at the top
Speaker 3: of the show, Donald Trump so far has raised more
Speaker 3: than thirty million dollars in the aftermath of this verdict.
Speaker 3: Is he winning this right now?
Speaker 6: Well, I think he's taking advantage of it. I'd say
Speaker 6: that this is a long haul campaign. It only matters
Speaker 6: what happens in November. And so if he takes in
Speaker 6: thirty five million dollars, but he scares away a few
Speaker 6: hundred thousand potential voters for himself, which he needs to
Speaker 6: be able to compete in these states, it'll be a
Speaker 6: bad trade. All the money in the world can't buy
Speaker 6: you votes. And so the reality is we don't know
Speaker 6: what net effect this will have on the voters. But
Speaker 6: we have seen things like this week's Marris poll, which
Speaker 6: indicates seventeen percent of his vote would be considered up
Speaker 6: to up for grabs potentially if he has a conviction.
Speaker 1: Now we know he has a conviction, so we'll.
Speaker 6: Start to see pulling data come in based on that,
Speaker 6: that'll tell us whether or not this is going to
Speaker 6: hurt him at.
Speaker 1: The ballot box. Gendi, we heard Donald Trump talk about
Speaker 1: Joe Biden today, said he was the dumbest president we
Speaker 1: ever had. There was laughter in the crowd, called him
Speaker 1: a Manchurian candidate. What does Joe Biden do?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 7: You know, he's got to keep reminding people that this
Speaker 7: is a convicted felon. He's got to keep reminding people
Speaker 7: that nobody's above the law, even a former president, that
Speaker 7: he was convicted by a jury of his peers, and
Speaker 7: he's got to use his bully pulpit to explain to
Speaker 7: people what Donald Trump was found guilty of. So he's
Speaker 7: got some work to do, but most importantly, he's got
Speaker 7: to do the work of the American public as it
Speaker 7: pertains to the economy, immigration, the border, of foreign policy.
Speaker 7: And to his credit, that's what he's been doing while
Speaker 7: Donald Trump has been in Manhattan fighting off these charges
Speaker 7: as a convicted felon. So I think he can do it,
Speaker 7: but he has to make sure he focuses on the
Speaker 7: issues of concern to the people, all the while explaining
Speaker 7: what their choice is between him age and all and
Speaker 7: a convicted fellow.
Speaker 1: Our great panel with us today this day after the verdict,
Speaker 1: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis will have much more time
Speaker 1: to take a deeper dive with our signature panel coming
Speaker 1: up with Katie Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: You're listening to.
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Speaker 2: Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 1: Breaking news shocking to many people last evening thirty four
Speaker 1: Guilty counts, Donald Trump speaking about them earlier today from
Speaker 1: Trump Tower. A press conference, as it was built did
Speaker 1: not include a single question from a reporter in Trump Tower.
Speaker 1: Certainly not Gregory Cordy, who's with us today at the
Speaker 1: table here in Washington, Bloomberg White House and Politics reporter
Speaker 1: with his eyes on the campaign trail. Great to see Gregory.
Speaker 1: We were talking shortly after this all transpired last night,
Speaker 1: and I'd love your take since you've been so steeped
Speaker 1: in the research here on what polls we're talking about.
Speaker 1: I know that we did have numbers going back to
Speaker 1: January at Bloomberg that asked independence swing state voters what
Speaker 1: they would think about a conviction, what they would think
Speaker 1: about incarceration. But there's been a lot of noise around this.
Speaker 1: Do we have any sense of what impact this will have?
Speaker 8: Yeah, So here are the numbers if you look at
Speaker 8: the polls, and I'm going to talk about our Bloomberg
Speaker 8: News Morning Console poll of swing state voters because a
Speaker 8: the swing state voters are the most important to talk
Speaker 8: about here, but also it's a poll obviously that I
Speaker 8: know the best, but these are numbers that are reflecting
Speaker 8: on other poles that are out there, give or take.
Speaker 8: So fifty three percent of swing state voters said they
Speaker 8: would be somewhat or very less likely to vote for
Speaker 8: Trump if you were convicted, and even less likely if
Speaker 8: he were sentenced on that crime. Now that fifty three
Speaker 8: percent many of them were going to vote for him
Speaker 8: to begin with, right, So it's really the seventeen percent
Speaker 8: is the number that I'm focused on. Seventeen percent of
Speaker 8: people who said they were going to vote for Trump
Speaker 8: said I would reconsider if I had that New Information
Speaker 8: seventeen percent. Interesting number. That's about the number of the
Speaker 8: amount of support that Nicki Haley gets within the Republican Party.
Speaker 8: So if you want to think about these as those
Speaker 8: Nicki Haley more traditional Republicans, that's probably not a bad
Speaker 8: comparison to make. And of those seventeen percent, eight percent
Speaker 8: said they would be very less likely to vote for
Speaker 8: Trump if you were convicted. So those are considerable numbers
Speaker 8: given how close all of these races are in these
Speaker 8: swing states.
Speaker 1: In a difference maker, Now.
Speaker 8: I'm going to argue against our own poll here, and
Speaker 8: the reason is, if you ask a hypothetical question, you
Speaker 8: get a hypothetic answer, right, So these are these may
Speaker 8: well be voters who say, look, I wouldn't vote for
Speaker 8: him if he was convicted, but I don't think he's
Speaker 8: going to get convicted. That's now a counterfactual. Right, he
Speaker 8: has been convicted. We know what has happened, and so
Speaker 8: it's gonna be very important and interesting to see over
Speaker 8: the next few days, and I would expect we would
Speaker 8: get some more data by Sunday from a number of
Speaker 8: different high quality polls that could give us a little
Speaker 8: bit more input on this president form. President Trump himself
Speaker 8: at his so called news conference. You don't get to
Speaker 8: call it a news conference now, they don't answer questions.
Speaker 8: But he signed this daily news poll that has him
Speaker 8: continuing up. That's a flash overnight poll. Wouldn't put too
Speaker 8: much stock in it. But look, this is certainly going
Speaker 8: to energize this base. It has turbo charged his fundraising.
Speaker 8: Got thirty four million dollars in less than a day,
Speaker 8: is more than he usually gets in two or three weeks.
Speaker 8: And if you know he can continue to gin up
Speaker 8: his supporters on this issue, he's certainly going to energize
Speaker 8: his votes to show up and to support him with
Speaker 8: a check or till.
Speaker 1: A million dollars for each count is quite amazing how
Speaker 1: that works out. So you just said a couple of
Speaker 1: interesting things, because this could be any number of trials
Speaker 1: we were asking people about back in January, right, We
Speaker 1: could still have, by the way, a January sixth Jack
Speaker 1: Smith trial. Do we know how these various indictments stack
Speaker 1: up in voters' minds?
Speaker 8: That's very interesting because we asked the numbers that I
Speaker 8: just gave you were from our January poll, and we
Speaker 8: had that same follow up question, is okay do one
Speaker 8: of these cases matter more than others. So in our
Speaker 8: February poll, we asked on each one of these four
Speaker 8: criminal cases individually. What we found was it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 8: Voters aren't really differentiating between this Alvin bradcase and Manhattan
Speaker 8: abount falsified business documents as opposed that Jack Smith case
Speaker 8: is abount election what happened on January sixth, or efforts
Speaker 8: to overturn the election, or the mar A Lago case
Speaker 8: in Florida that has to do with classified documents. Voters
Speaker 8: pretty much put those all into the same bag.
Speaker 1: What did you make of the speech? By the way,
Speaker 1: he started on the border. This is supposed to be
Speaker 1: again a news conference on this first ever conviction, criminal
Speaker 1: conviction of a former president. Started on the border. They're
Speaker 1: ruining our country. They don't want to have cars, he said.
Speaker 1: Then he got into the case a little bit, talked
Speaker 1: about some of the stuff that we've heard before. It
Speaker 1: was riggs Joe Biden, even though it's a state court.
Speaker 1: Was there anything new here or you surprised he showed
Speaker 1: up with kind of the same retribution speech.
Speaker 8: If you missed it and you're wondering whether he said anything,
Speaker 8: you haven't heard before.
Speaker 1: The answer is probably know.
Speaker 8: This was, as you say, a little bit in between
Speaker 8: these daily statements that he's given outside of court for
Speaker 8: the past five six weeks and a rally. I liked
Speaker 8: what our colleague David Gera, how he put it from
Speaker 8: outside the courthouse or outside Trump Tower earlier this morning.
Speaker 8: It was kind of a supercut of Trump grievances over
Speaker 8: the trial, interspersed with of all of his usual campaign
Speaker 8: pronouncements about immigration and the stay of the country.
Speaker 1: He called Joe Biden the dumbest president we've ever had.
Speaker 1: He got some laughter in the crowd, which also made
Speaker 1: me wonder how many reporters were there versus supporters he
Speaker 1: got into January sixth, whether he called the National Guard.
Speaker 1: I mean, this really was. We were all over the
Speaker 1: place on this. But he talked about whether he would
Speaker 1: have testified. He said, I wanted to testify. The theory
Speaker 1: is you never testify, but I would have loved to
Speaker 1: have testified. He of course, never sat a chance of
Speaker 1: testifying in this trial.
Speaker 8: Right he has the constitutional right to testify. He also
Speaker 8: has the constitutional right under the Fifth Amendment not to
Speaker 8: testify and not have that held against him. He chose
Speaker 8: not to testify. Look, and can you have it both
Speaker 8: ways in the court of public opinion. You know, that's
Speaker 8: the argument he's going to make. I think what he
Speaker 8: said was if he had said it's a beautiful day
Speaker 8: and it's raining outside, he might have been indicted for
Speaker 8: and then he sort of trailed off to talk about
Speaker 8: the actual weather outside. So, look, it's Trump. You kind
Speaker 8: of expect that from him, and the jury made the
Speaker 8: decision based on the evidence they had without his deestimy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you say things enough times and people start to
Speaker 1: believe it or consider it to be fact or cannon.
Speaker 1: And he keeps talking about this weaponization of government and
Speaker 1: that this is Joe Biden's case. He said, quote, I'm
Speaker 1: the leading person for president. I'm under a gag order
Speaker 1: by a man that can't put two sentences together given
Speaker 1: by a court, and they are in total conjunction with
Speaker 1: the White House and the doj unquote do we have
Speaker 1: any reason to believe that?
Speaker 8: We don't? And you know, a couple of weeks ago,
Speaker 8: Trump came out of the courtroom and made that exact
Speaker 8: same point, but then he added a qualification to it,
Speaker 8: is that I can't prove that but I think it's true.
Speaker 8: So again, this is one of those arguments that that
Speaker 8: the former president is going to make. Look, Alan Bragg
Speaker 8: is also a Democrat. In this super partisan, polarized country
Speaker 8: that we live in now, it's hard to dismiss the
Speaker 8: political aspect to all of this. It's an open question
Speaker 8: if the same behavior had happened in a republican jurisdiction,
Speaker 8: would the former president have been indicted. I don't know that.
Speaker 8: I can only speculate that it would be less likely
Speaker 8: to happen that way, right, So does he have a point?
Speaker 8: Look at the That's up to each individual voter to decide,
Speaker 8: and people are going to bring their own partisan frames
Speaker 8: to that question.
Speaker 1: We mentioned this thirty four point eight million dollar number
Speaker 1: small donner on small dollar online contributions. The whales are
Speaker 1: lying up too, though the mega donors are not spooked
Speaker 1: by this.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's interesting. Even before the verdict yesterday, we
Speaker 8: started to see some of the Wall Street Titans, people
Speaker 8: like Bill Ackman, leaning towards supporting the former president. Here
Speaker 8: they have been somewhat on the sidelines. Bill Hackman is
Speaker 8: a very interesting guy because he's been looking for any
Speaker 8: alternative to a Trump Biden rematch right, he supported decent Phillips.
Speaker 8: He's been curious about Robert F. Kennedy Junior, and now
Speaker 8: seems to be maybe landing back towards President Trump. This
Speaker 8: has been an agonizing election cycle for Wall Street to
Speaker 8: try to figure out who is in their best interests.
Speaker 8: They like Trump policies, they like the idea of tax cuts,
Speaker 8: they like his views on regulation. They're not always so
Speaker 8: sure about his respect for the rule of law, which
Speaker 8: is very important in markets.
Speaker 1: And christ why we didn't hear about any issues today?
Speaker 1: Could and Donald Trump have gone in there and said, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're going to fight this. I've got the entire Republican
Speaker 1: Party America is at my back. We're going to make
Speaker 1: the tax cuts permanent. We're going to start going through
Speaker 1: a checklist of things that I can do if you
Speaker 1: just elect me one more time.
Speaker 8: And in this case, I think you know, very often
Speaker 8: Donald Trump is his own worst enemy right on the messaging.
Speaker 8: He is so aggrieved by what is happening to him
Speaker 8: in the courtroom that it has distracted him. And look,
Speaker 8: he has been in the court room. He's been stuck there.
Speaker 8: This is the hand that he's dealt.
Speaker 2: But you.
Speaker 8: Yes, as of now, we have not seen a pivot
Speaker 8: back to the campaign. And look, the sentencing is going
Speaker 8: to be July eleventh, that's four days before the start
Speaker 8: of the Republican National Convention. You have to think that
Speaker 8: all of these legal issues are going to continue to
Speaker 8: color Trump's rhetoric up until the convention and through the convention.
Speaker 1: We're going to be in a convention hall where he's
Speaker 1: doing a jailhouse call on the big screen.
Speaker 8: That's going to be up to one person, and that's Judge.
Speaker 1: I'm really glad you could come by today, Greg, recording
Speaker 1: with us from the campaign trail to Washington and right
Speaker 1: here to the table at Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch
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Speaker 3: President Biden not answering questions shouted at him by reporters
Speaker 3: about Donald Trump's conviction yesterday, although he did in that
Speaker 3: those remarks from the State Dining Room at the White
Speaker 3: House address what happened yesterday, saying that it shows the
Speaker 3: American principle that no one is above the law that
Speaker 3: that was reaffirmed. He noted that it was a state case,
Speaker 3: not a federal case, heard by a jury of twelve citizens,
Speaker 3: and he said that's how the American system of justice works,
Speaker 3: going on to say it would be reckless and dangerous
Speaker 3: and irresponsible for anyone to say that this was rigged
Speaker 3: just because they don't like the verdict. But of course
Speaker 3: it was then followed by pretty remarkable remarks on the
Speaker 3: Middle East, the President Joe announcing in Israeli offer a
Speaker 3: comprehensive new proposal to use his words, and a roadmap
Speaker 3: to an enduring ceasefire and release of all hostages that
Speaker 3: has been transmitted through Cutter to hamas three phases here.
Speaker 3: The first is a temporary ceasefire that would last six weeks.
Speaker 3: Phase two would be a permanent end to hostilities, and
Speaker 3: the President said if negotiations for that second phase take
Speaker 3: longer than six weeks, the ceasefire will continue until phase
Speaker 3: two is allowed to begin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was an important moment here, Kayley. Three phases
Speaker 1: that would include the exchange of all remaining living hostages,
Speaker 1: hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, we want to assemble our panel
Speaker 1: to get their take on this. Rick Davis and Jeanie
Speaker 1: Shanzano are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors on a day
Speaker 1: we thought we'd be talking about Donald Trump's legal future,
Speaker 1: and in part we are with the remarks here. I'm
Speaker 1: going to start there with you both. Going into this
Speaker 1: news conference, we were asking you or this set of
Speaker 1: remarks by the president if you thought he would or
Speaker 1: should address the case in New York. Genie. That is
Speaker 1: exactly where he began time well spent.
Speaker 7: It absolutely was and his tone was absolutely right. As
Speaker 7: Kaylee just went through. He talked about the fact that
Speaker 7: he was judged by a jury of his peers at
Speaker 7: the state level, that this is the reality in the
Speaker 7: United States, that nobody is above the law, and the
Speaker 7: fact is Donald Trump can appeal this decision. But I
Speaker 7: think one of the most important things I heard was
Speaker 7: when he said it is irresponsible for anybody to be
Speaker 7: talking about this decision as rigged and to try to
Speaker 7: delegitimize our judiciary. And that is something we've heard not
Speaker 7: just from Donald Trump, but from the other leaders of
Speaker 7: the Republican Party right up to the highest elected official,
Speaker 7: Mike Johnson to Governor Reynolds, to Lindsey Graham, to Marco Rubio.
Speaker 7: I mean, the list goes on and on. It is irresponsible.
Speaker 7: And when you know, the former governor of Marilynd, Larry Hogan,
Speaker 7: came out yesterday and he said that the reality is
Speaker 7: is that we should respect the decision. He was warned
Speaker 7: the Trump campaign that his election bid for the Senate
Speaker 7: is over. So the President was right on that and
Speaker 7: his remarks were on point.
Speaker 3: Rick. We'll get to what he said actually about the
Speaker 3: proposal that Israel has put on the table here, but first,
Speaker 3: do you agree with Genie's characterization? Did he strike the
Speaker 3: right tone here?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I certainly created a pretty stark contrast to what Donald
Speaker 6: Trump did at the Trump Tower today with this rambling
Speaker 6: one hour diatribe about grievances, So you know, makes a
Speaker 6: good contrast, and I think did the basic minimum that
Speaker 6: he could do. I would hope that Democrats would fan
Speaker 6: out now and really go on the offensive, because we've
Speaker 6: seen this act before, after Bill Clinton and the Star report.
Speaker 6: He went in and really defined it and Republicans got
Speaker 6: on defense. And so this is exactly the opposite from
Speaker 6: a partisan nature. But I think the Biden folks are
Speaker 6: going to have to go out and do more than
Speaker 6: he did today.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this proposal. We should make clear this
Speaker 1: has not been accepted. What we just heard's been transmitted,
Speaker 1: as the President told us by Cutter to Hamas. But Genie,
Speaker 1: there are progressive Democrats who have been waiting for some
Speaker 1: news here and a Biden Whitehouse and campaign looking for
Speaker 1: a breakthrough. We just heard the details again summarized by Kayley,
Speaker 1: a complete cease fire, withdrawal of Israeli forces, release of hostages,
Speaker 1: living hostages, and hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Does this sound
Speaker 1: like a breakthrough moment to you?
Speaker 7: You know, I hope it is. You know, it is
Speaker 7: really hard to tell. While the President was talking, I
Speaker 7: was thinking about the fact that the Middle East, going
Speaker 7: all the way back to Richard Nixon, if not before,
Speaker 7: has been really a stumbling block for American presidents left
Speaker 7: right and center, Republican and Democrat, from Richard Nixon all
Speaker 7: the way through, and so, you know, this is very tough.
Speaker 7: The President said that we all want to see a breakthrough.
Speaker 7: I think his tone is right, but I think it
Speaker 7: is very very early to declare something a breakthrough. You know,
Speaker 7: it's very hard to trust Hamas. It's very hard to
Speaker 7: know what they will do. We're talking about a six
Speaker 7: week temporary cease fire in phase one and a permanent
Speaker 7: ceasefire in phase two. That would be an amazing step forward,
Speaker 7: but hard to say we're there at this point. But
Speaker 7: I give the President and his team, including the CIA
Speaker 7: director and the Secretary of State, you know, a lot
Speaker 7: of credit for working on this, and Cutter for working
Speaker 7: at it as it has in terms of being a
Speaker 7: middle manor state if you will, to try to make
Speaker 7: progress on this. It is so much needed. And that
Speaker 7: the remarks about the hostages, I think that's where all
Speaker 7: of our minds should be. They have been suffering there
Speaker 7: for far too long.
Speaker 3: Well, Rick, the President essentially said that this deal is
Speaker 3: on the table. Hamas says it wants to cease fire,
Speaker 3: and he says this deal is an opportunity to prove
Speaker 3: whether they really mean it, Seemingly addressing those words at
Speaker 3: Hamas also, though seeming to speak to a domestic audience,
Speaker 3: he said everyone who wants peace now must raise their voices,
Speaker 3: suggesting they need to be pressuring Hamas to accept the
Speaker 3: terms of this agreement. Does this help him domestically with
Speaker 3: those people at home who have been pleading for peace.
Speaker 6: Now, yeah, I think this is pretty smooth move on
Speaker 6: the President's part. I mean, this is an Israeli offer,
Speaker 6: looks really generous and reasonable, and I would say most
Speaker 6: people don't think of the Israeli position on this as
Speaker 6: being generous or reasonable lately, and he's putting.
Speaker 1: It all on Hamas now.
Speaker 6: And I thought what was really interesting about his comments
Speaker 6: is he said that Israel has accomplished its goal, which
Speaker 6: was to devastate Hamas and basically take them out as
Speaker 6: a entity. And that's the first I've heard of that
Speaker 6: being determined. Israel I don't think has actually articulated that themselves.
Speaker 6: So all this becomes available now that Hamas has been devastated,
Speaker 6: and now all this is on the desk of the
Speaker 6: Hamas leadership. And I think it was pretty interesting negotiating
Speaker 6: strategy for the President to go out and use the
Speaker 6: bullypull pit in the United States to put all the
Speaker 6: heat now on Hamas. If this fails, it's Hamas. Only
Speaker 6: anybody wants to criticize Joe Biden. All he can say is, hey,
Speaker 6: we put this deal on that would end the hostilities
Speaker 6: for good and Hamas didn't take it. It's all on Hamas,
Speaker 6: So I like it. I think it's an appropriate way
Speaker 6: to use the presidency. And you know, now we look
Speaker 6: like we're part of the campaign to get Hamas to
Speaker 6: do the right thing. Hopefully it works out, because it's
Speaker 6: better for everybody if it does.
Speaker 1: Remarkable timing this day after the Trump verdict, and thanks
Speaker 1: to our great panel for staying over time to help
Speaker 1: us understand what we just heard, the implications here at
Speaker 1: home and globally. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, Bloomberg's signature
Speaker 1: political panel here will have more with Rick and Jeanie
Speaker 1: in the late edition of Ballants of Power that starts
Speaker 1: at five pm Washington time, as we add the voice
Speaker 1: pick the Brain of Nick Wadams, who runs our national
Speaker 1: security team here in Washington. A breaker that not everyone
Speaker 1: saw coming today. This is a late ad on the
Speaker 1: president's schedule. What do you make of the timing and
Speaker 1: what we just heard.
Speaker 9: Well, you know, obviously the timing is pretty interesting. I
Speaker 9: think you're seeing a president who wants to put the
Speaker 9: focus very much back on policy, and it's also an
Speaker 9: element of deflection a little bit. He wants to put
Speaker 9: the pressure on Hamas. He also wants to make a
Speaker 9: clear show to folks back home, both Republicans and Democrats, progressives,
Speaker 9: kids on college campuses, who have been protesting all through
Speaker 9: the spring. He is in the thick of this. He
Speaker 9: is pressing for a solution and essentially saying, listen, this
Speaker 9: is our best chance right now.
Speaker 3: Well, best chance doesn't necessarily mean a guaranteed outcome. Israel
Speaker 3: has made a proposal in the past, is has not
Speaker 3: accepted proposals Hamas has made. So if this is now
Speaker 3: in the hands of Hamas, how likely is it that
Speaker 3: they're going to readily agree to this?
Speaker 9: Well, you know, that is the question. But the other
Speaker 9: question I also have is how genuine is this proposal.
Speaker 9: I mean, it was only a couple days ago that
Speaker 9: Israel said we're going to need at least another seven
Speaker 9: months to keep going after Hamas. So what Prime Minister
Speaker 9: Benjamin na Who has made clear is they do not
Speaker 9: want a situation where Hamas remains in operation. So how
Speaker 9: can you do a ceasefire with an entity that you
Speaker 9: say you are determined not to let exist? And Israel
Speaker 9: so far has just not answered that question.
Speaker 1: Palestinian civilians would return to their homes, he says, including
Speaker 1: in the north. Under Phase one, this I presume would
Speaker 1: resonate in Gaza. What would be the impact for Joe
Speaker 1: Biden's image on that side.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, I think what you're seeing here as
Speaker 9: a president who is trying to walk a very fine
Speaker 9: line between the pressure from those who support Israel, which
Speaker 9: is a significant portion of the Democratic Party and also
Speaker 9: among Republicans, but the very vocal wing, increasingly vocal wing
Speaker 9: of the Democratic Party that I believe he needs to
Speaker 9: do a lot more to help Gosen. So when he's
Speaker 9: saying things like that people will be allowed to return home,
Speaker 9: he is making an explicit plea and sending an explicit
Speaker 9: message to those progressives who really feel that he has
Speaker 9: not done enough to support the people doesn't And this is.
Speaker 3: All coming directly from President Biden himself. What should we
Speaker 3: make of, Nick that this was announced not by Israel,
Speaker 3: not by Cutter or Egypt, who have served as mediators.
Speaker 3: Hamaus didn't say it had received this proposal President Biden,
Speaker 3: Right is where we heard this from?
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, I think what you're We've had a
Speaker 9: lot happening in the shadows. The broad outlines of this
Speaker 9: proposal were not a huge surprise. We had no own
Speaker 9: about this idea of a phased approach. Some of the
Speaker 9: specifics we're new, specifically on the number of humanitarian trucks
Speaker 9: with humanitarian aid that would go in some of the
Speaker 9: details of the release. But all of that, I mean
Speaker 9: is essentially he acknowledged is still stuff that needs to
Speaker 9: be worked out. But I think what you're seeing as
Speaker 9: a president who has had a CIA director over in
Speaker 9: the region of quietly pushing for trying to get these
Speaker 9: talks going and trying to just inject more momentum to say, listen,
Speaker 9: I mean, everything that's going on Israeli troops in Rafa,
Speaker 9: the campaign continues, we have a possibility for a pause
Speaker 9: in the fighting. And he's really sending that message to
Speaker 9: both sides to show that he's right in the thick
Speaker 9: of this.
Speaker 1: Does a ceasefire, if this is accepted, a complete cease fire,
Speaker 1: a permanent ceasefire, keep the ICC from pursuing the arrest
Speaker 1: of Benjamin Etna.
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, it would certainly help defuse some of
Speaker 9: the tension there. But you know, the ICC prosecutor is
Speaker 9: look making his case based on evidence that they have
Speaker 9: accumulated in the past, already committed, that's been already committed.
Speaker 9: I mean he is coming under a lot of pressure
Speaker 9: right now. I mean they are seeking those warrants. The
Speaker 9: arrest warrants have not been issued. That is a huge
Speaker 9: focus for the US and Israel. But certainly if there
Speaker 9: is a ceasefire, it gives them another case to make.
Speaker 5: All right.
Speaker 3: Nick Wadams, who leads our US national security team here
Speaker 3: at Bloomberg, thank you for running into the studio for
Speaker 3: us after we had this three phase plan outlined by
Speaker 3: President Biden. The ONUS is now on Hamas to accept it.
Speaker 3: And of course this comes the day after Donald Trump
Speaker 3: was convicted on thirty four felon accounts of falsifying business records.
Speaker 3: A lot of news here in Washington.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make
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