1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 3 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 2: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Appocarplay and then 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 2: roud Otto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 3: New York certainly has been a busy town today is 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 3: this morning near Trump Tower. There were a lot of 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: protesters and a lot of media present as Donald Trump 9 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: gave his day after press conference after being found guilty 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 3: on thirty four felony accounts of falsifying business records. He 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 3: had much to say, including flexing his ability to fundraise 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 3: off of this verdict. Here he was earlier this morning. 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 4: Last night, we just got to report this morning. In 14 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 4: the history of politics, I believe maybe I'm wrong. 15 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Somebody will find that I'm wrong. Maybe, but I don't 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: think so. 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 4: They raised with small money donors, meaning like twenty one dollars, 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 4: forty two dollars, fifty three dollars, thirty eight dollars, a 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,639 Speaker 4: record thirty nine million dollars in about a ten. 20 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: Hour period, raising tens of millions of dollars off the conviction. 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: By the way, the official number we got earlier was 22 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: thirty four point eight. Maybe they're making more according to 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: the President though, as he says, maybe someone will tell 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: him that he's wrong. But it was it was a 25 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: meandering speechers built as a news conference a press conference, Kaylee. 26 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: Not one question was taken from a reporter, and there 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: was laughter in the crowd when he called Joe Biden 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: the dumbest president in American history. So it's difficult to 29 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: tell what the media contingent was compared to supporters who 30 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: were in the room there. But we have a lot 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: of questions about what's next for Donald Trump. He just 32 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: got through the throws here of the verdicts. He's speaking 33 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: to the American people today. Now what the answer, by 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: the way, will include a meeting with approbation officer, and 35 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: we want to bring in Jim's Iron, the former assistant 36 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: US Attorney for the Southern District of New York. It's 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: been awfully helpful with us through each stage of this trial. 38 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: Is that the case, Jim? Will that be the next 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: phase here for Donald Trump as his legal team cooks 40 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: up an appeal. 41 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,640 Speaker 5: Well, I think the next phase, you're absolutely right, is 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 5: going to be an investigation by the Probation Department of 43 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 5: the Court. There'll be a report to the judge, and 44 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 5: then the judge first is going to entertain motions to 45 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 5: dismiss the case, which pro form emotions and will undoubtedly 46 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 5: be denied. The judge will impose sentence, and following the 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 5: imposition of sentence, which I think is January July eleventh, 48 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 5: the appellate process can begin. 49 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 3: Okay, so jim. While that process is happening, can I 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 3: just get a point of clarification while all of that 51 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 3: is under is Donald Trump still under the gag order? 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: Because he seemed to suggest so during his news conference 53 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 3: earlier today, yet also appeared to say a bunch of 54 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 3: disparaging things about Michael Cohen, which theoretically could be in 55 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 3: violation of the gag order. So where exactly does that 56 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: stand here? 57 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 5: The gag order is still in place. He must not 58 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 5: disparage the witnesses, court personnel, or the jurors. I think 59 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 5: if he goes after the jurors, it'll be another citation 60 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 5: for contempt in addition to the twenty or so citations 61 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 5: that he now has. The judge seemed to be lenient 62 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 5: with regard to disparagement of Michael Cohen. Where Cohen had 63 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 5: attacked him, he had some sort of right of retort. 64 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 5: So although he didn't identify Cohen by name, it was 65 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 5: obviously he was talking about Cohen, called him a sleeves bag, 66 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 5: and he undoubtedly was advised or felt that he had 67 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 5: a certain latitude in attacking Cohen, who's been on television 68 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 5: attacking him. 69 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: Jim, We heard a lot about the trial itself from 70 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trump earlier said it was very unfair when the 71 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: government wanted something that got everything they wanted. We wanted 72 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: a venue change, we didn't get it. I paid a lawyer, 73 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: totally legal. He says, it's a legal expense, not sheet rock, 74 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: It's not construction. It's a legal expense. What would you 75 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: say back to Donald Trump after what just transpired in 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,799 Speaker 1: court the last seven weeks, Well. 77 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 5: Tell me what legal services Cohen rendered. The jury believed Cohen. 78 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 5: We have to accept that. And the expense was incurred 79 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 5: to cloak in secrecy, the payment to the poorinn Star 80 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 5: Stormy Daniels to cover up the tryst. No legal service 81 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 5: were involved. This was arranged by Michael Cohen, and he 82 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 5: was the fixer, the arranger, the enforcer for Donald Trump, 83 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 5: and in fact, he went to jail over this very 84 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 5: transaction because he was indicted for it in the federal court. 85 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, indeed, And of course the fact that he was 86 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 3: indicted and many other things came to light over the 87 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: course of the trial or certainly were made note of repeatedly. 88 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 3: To go back to something else, Joe was just talking about, though, 89 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 3: in terms of what Donald Trump said this morning about 90 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 3: what he perceived to be unfairness with the way all 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 3: of this played out. He had a few specific assertions 92 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: about what wasn't allowed to happen in the courtroom, what 93 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 3: testimony could not be heard from certain witnesses that he wanted. 94 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: Is any of this, any of that going to have 95 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 3: merit in the appeal process. 96 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 5: I don't think so. And whatever he asserts in the 97 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 5: appeal process, he'll have to back up with facts, which 98 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 5: he hasn't done this thirty three minute rant you just 99 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 5: heard Trump Tower. It is not true that his witnesses 100 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 5: were not permitted to testify. He wanted to call a 101 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 5: campaign finance expert, and the judge allowed it, but narrow 102 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 5: the scope of what he was going to be allowed 103 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 5: to testify about. And that's standard practice. The law had 104 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 5: to come from the judge. It doesn't come from an expert. 105 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 5: Otherwise you'd have a battle of experts, and that would 106 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 5: preempt what the jury is supposed to do. 107 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump also talked to you about his decision, or 108 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: at least what we thought was his decision to not testify. 109 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: He said, I would have testified. This is a quote. 110 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: I wanted to testify. The theory is though, you never testify, 111 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: but I would have loved to. What would have happened 112 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: if he chose to testify. 113 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 5: I think if he'd taken the stand. Number one, he 114 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 5: would have been cross examined on the substance of the 115 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 5: transaction and his role in the transaction, and there he 116 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 5: would have had to admit his role, which was a 117 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 5: contested issue in the case, or he would have been 118 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 5: faced with further charges of perjury. Secondly, the judge did 119 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 5: allow limited cross examination. He made that in response to 120 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 5: emotion that is always made at the beginning of the trial, 121 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 5: and he said there were certain areas that the prosecutor 122 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 5: could go into if Trump took the sand and certain 123 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 5: which had bearing on credibility, and there were other areas 124 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 5: he was not going to allow the prosecutor to go 125 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 5: into So there's the so called bias judge making rulings 126 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 5: in favor of Trump. 127 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 3: Well, and certainly the biased judge or the corrupt judge 128 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 3: to use whatever language that Donald Trump has been using 129 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: to describe one Mrshawn as well as the idea that 130 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: this was, as he repeatedly has said a source funded 131 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: district attorney in Alvin Bragg, the idea that all of 132 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 3: this was brought upon him for political reasons. I feel 133 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: like it's worth just making it clear, though, Jim, even 134 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: if that were true, if these charges should never have 135 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,679 Speaker 3: been brought, as Trump and many other Republicans have said, 136 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: the fact that a jury found enough merit in the 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: evidence to convict him in all thirty four counts should 138 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 3: that then therefore essentially make moot that entire point, because 139 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 3: even if you question the motive of these charges being brought, 140 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 3: ultimately twelve everyday Americans that the defense agreed could serve 141 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: as adequate jurors decided Trump was guilty of these crimes. 142 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 5: Well, in the first place, the charges were brought by 143 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 5: a grand jury in New York County. We don't know 144 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 5: how many of those grand jurors, I suppose there were 145 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 5: twenty three of them were Republicans. We don't know how 146 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 5: many of them like Trump. We just don't know what 147 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 5: their biases and prejudice were. They have said again and 148 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 5: again and perpetuated the lie that Bragg ran for office 149 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 5: on a platform of getting Donald Trump. That's not true. 150 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 5: In fact, he avoided discussing the Trump case when he 151 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 5: was running in the primaries, and he got the Democratic nomination, 152 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 5: which is tantamount to election. So you can say that 153 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 5: Bragg brought these charges because he was a biased prosecutor 154 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 5: determined to get Trump, or he was fulfilling a campaign promise. 155 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 5: Letitia James, the attorney General, did run for office on 156 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 5: a promise she was going to get Trump, but that's 157 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 5: a different question. Bragg, I think showed tremendous courage here. 158 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 5: He's been a great district attorney. Crime is down, contrary 159 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 5: to what Trump says, and Bragg was very reluctant to 160 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 5: bring these charges until they were totally vetted and investigated. 161 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 5: In fact, the fraud charges which were the subject of 162 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 5: a civil case Letitia James brought against Trump, were not 163 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 5: brought by Alvin Bragg. He declined on those charges. He 164 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 5: went with these charges because he believed that this would 165 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 5: lead to a successful prosecution. He was vilified, he was 166 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 5: called a racist, he was attacked, and he went ahead. 167 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 5: He's really a profile and courage and the case before 168 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 5: a judge in a court of law, and it was 169 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 5: presented to a jury and the jury unanimously convicted and 170 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 5: Bragg is completely vindicated. 171 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: Well, lastly, Jim, you know it's our job to ask 172 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: you what you think is going to happen at sentencing. 173 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 1: Is Donald Trump, or we to believe, going to be 174 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: slicing garlic at Rikers Island? 175 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 5: I think it's entirely possible because in sentencing, the judge 176 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 5: takes into account a number of factors. There is the 177 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 5: factor of Trump's age. He's seven years old. That's in 178 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 5: his favor. Unlikely to sentence a seventy seven year old 179 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 5: man to jail. Trump even in his press conference spoke 180 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 5: about his age, and then realizing that he used that 181 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 5: weapon against Joe Biden, he sort of pulled away from it. 182 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 5: There's the point that Trump has never been convicted of anything. Well, 183 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 5: he's never been convicted of anything because he's managed to 184 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 5: delay the three other trials that would be had against 185 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 5: him in the federal two in the Federal court and 186 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 5: in Illinois. What would be against him is the panoply 187 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 5: of civil cases where he's been found liable, including the 188 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 5: Egene Carroll case where he was adjudicated a sexual abuser 189 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 5: where he defamed a woman with any basis whatsoever, and 190 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 5: the civil fraud case where judgment was entered against him 191 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 5: for a half billion dollars. So those are factors which 192 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 5: would militate in favor of a jail sentence. Plus the 193 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 5: fact that Trump is a public figure, and is a 194 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 5: public figure who engaged in a corrupt and illegal act 195 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 5: in order to win the twenty sixteen election. And when 196 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 5: a public figure engages in conduct like that, judges like 197 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 5: to make an example of them, make an example of them, 198 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 5: because it will deter such conduct in the future, raither 199 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 5: on his part or the part of other people who 200 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 5: were seeking public office. 201 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: All right, Jimsyron, it's always great to get your perspective. 202 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 3: You've been with us through the very beginning, and it's 203 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: great to have you back now that this has reached 204 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 3: a conclusion, although the appeals process still needs to play out. 205 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: Jim Zyron, former Assistant US attorney for the Southern District 206 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 3: of New York. We appreciate your time, and now we 207 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,839 Speaker 3: want to consider the political ramifications here and bring in 208 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 3: our signature political panel, Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzy no 209 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 3: Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, as we said at the top 210 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 3: of the show, Donald Trump so far has raised more 211 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: than thirty million dollars in the aftermath of this verdict. 212 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: Is he winning this right now? 213 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 6: Well, I think he's taking advantage of it. I'd say 214 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 6: that this is a long haul campaign. It only matters 215 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 6: what happens in November. And so if he takes in 216 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 6: thirty five million dollars, but he scares away a few 217 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 6: hundred thousand potential voters for himself, which he needs to 218 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 6: be able to compete in these states, it'll be a 219 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 6: bad trade. All the money in the world can't buy 220 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 6: you votes. And so the reality is we don't know 221 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 6: what net effect this will have on the voters. But 222 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 6: we have seen things like this week's Marris poll, which 223 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 6: indicates seventeen percent of his vote would be considered up 224 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 6: to up for grabs potentially if he has a conviction. 225 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 1: Now we know he has a conviction, so we'll. 226 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 6: Start to see pulling data come in based on that, 227 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 6: that'll tell us whether or not this is going to 228 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 6: hurt him at. 229 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: The ballot box. Gendi, we heard Donald Trump talk about 230 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: Joe Biden today, said he was the dumbest president we 231 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: ever had. There was laughter in the crowd, called him 232 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: a Manchurian candidate. What does Joe Biden do? 233 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: Now? 234 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 7: You know, he's got to keep reminding people that this 235 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 7: is a convicted felon. He's got to keep reminding people 236 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 7: that nobody's above the law, even a former president, that 237 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 7: he was convicted by a jury of his peers, and 238 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 7: he's got to use his bully pulpit to explain to 239 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 7: people what Donald Trump was found guilty of. So he's 240 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 7: got some work to do, but most importantly, he's got 241 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 7: to do the work of the American public as it 242 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 7: pertains to the economy, immigration, the border, of foreign policy. 243 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 7: And to his credit, that's what he's been doing while 244 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 7: Donald Trump has been in Manhattan fighting off these charges 245 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 7: as a convicted felon. So I think he can do it, 246 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 7: but he has to make sure he focuses on the 247 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 7: issues of concern to the people, all the while explaining 248 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 7: what their choice is between him age and all and 249 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 7: a convicted fellow. 250 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: Our great panel with us today this day after the verdict, 251 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: Genie Shanzano and Rick Davis will have much more time 252 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: to take a deeper dive with our signature panel coming 253 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: up with Katie Lines. I'm Joe Matthew. This is Bloomberg. 254 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: You're listening to. 255 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 2: The Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast ken just live weekdays 256 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and Enroid Oro with the 257 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon 258 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa 259 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: Play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 260 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: Breaking news shocking to many people last evening thirty four 261 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Guilty counts, Donald Trump speaking about them earlier today from 262 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: Trump Tower. A press conference, as it was built did 263 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: not include a single question from a reporter in Trump Tower. 264 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: Certainly not Gregory Cordy, who's with us today at the 265 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: table here in Washington, Bloomberg White House and Politics reporter 266 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: with his eyes on the campaign trail. Great to see Gregory. 267 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: We were talking shortly after this all transpired last night, 268 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: and I'd love your take since you've been so steeped 269 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: in the research here on what polls we're talking about. 270 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: I know that we did have numbers going back to 271 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: January at Bloomberg that asked independence swing state voters what 272 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: they would think about a conviction, what they would think 273 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: about incarceration. But there's been a lot of noise around this. 274 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: Do we have any sense of what impact this will have? 275 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 8: Yeah, So here are the numbers if you look at 276 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 8: the polls, and I'm going to talk about our Bloomberg 277 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 8: News Morning Console poll of swing state voters because a 278 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 8: the swing state voters are the most important to talk 279 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 8: about here, but also it's a poll obviously that I 280 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 8: know the best, but these are numbers that are reflecting 281 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 8: on other poles that are out there, give or take. 282 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 8: So fifty three percent of swing state voters said they 283 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 8: would be somewhat or very less likely to vote for 284 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 8: Trump if you were convicted, and even less likely if 285 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 8: he were sentenced on that crime. Now that fifty three 286 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:10,639 Speaker 8: percent many of them were going to vote for him 287 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 8: to begin with, right, So it's really the seventeen percent 288 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 8: is the number that I'm focused on. Seventeen percent of 289 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 8: people who said they were going to vote for Trump 290 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 8: said I would reconsider if I had that New Information 291 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 8: seventeen percent. Interesting number. That's about the number of the 292 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 8: amount of support that Nicki Haley gets within the Republican Party. 293 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 8: So if you want to think about these as those 294 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 8: Nicki Haley more traditional Republicans, that's probably not a bad 295 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 8: comparison to make. And of those seventeen percent, eight percent 296 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 8: said they would be very less likely to vote for 297 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 8: Trump if you were convicted. So those are considerable numbers 298 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 8: given how close all of these races are in these 299 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 8: swing states. 300 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 1: In a difference maker, Now. 301 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 8: I'm going to argue against our own poll here, and 302 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 8: the reason is, if you ask a hypothetical question, you 303 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 8: get a hypothetic answer, right, So these are these may 304 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 8: well be voters who say, look, I wouldn't vote for 305 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 8: him if he was convicted, but I don't think he's 306 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 8: going to get convicted. That's now a counterfactual. Right, he 307 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 8: has been convicted. We know what has happened, and so 308 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 8: it's gonna be very important and interesting to see over 309 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,120 Speaker 8: the next few days, and I would expect we would 310 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 8: get some more data by Sunday from a number of 311 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 8: different high quality polls that could give us a little 312 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 8: bit more input on this president form. President Trump himself 313 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 8: at his so called news conference. You don't get to 314 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 8: call it a news conference now, they don't answer questions. 315 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 8: But he signed this daily news poll that has him 316 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 8: continuing up. That's a flash overnight poll. Wouldn't put too 317 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 8: much stock in it. But look, this is certainly going 318 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 8: to energize this base. It has turbo charged his fundraising. 319 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 8: Got thirty four million dollars in less than a day, 320 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 8: is more than he usually gets in two or three weeks. 321 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,239 Speaker 8: And if you know he can continue to gin up 322 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 8: his supporters on this issue, he's certainly going to energize 323 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 8: his votes to show up and to support him with 324 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 8: a check or till. 325 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: A million dollars for each count is quite amazing how 326 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,119 Speaker 1: that works out. So you just said a couple of 327 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: interesting things, because this could be any number of trials 328 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: we were asking people about back in January, right, We 329 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: could still have, by the way, a January sixth Jack 330 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: Smith trial. Do we know how these various indictments stack 331 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: up in voters' minds? 332 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 8: That's very interesting because we asked the numbers that I 333 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 8: just gave you were from our January poll, and we 334 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 8: had that same follow up question, is okay do one 335 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 8: of these cases matter more than others. So in our 336 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 8: February poll, we asked on each one of these four 337 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 8: criminal cases individually. What we found was it really doesn't matter. 338 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 8: Voters aren't really differentiating between this Alvin bradcase and Manhattan 339 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 8: abount falsified business documents as opposed that Jack Smith case 340 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 8: is abount election what happened on January sixth, or efforts 341 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 8: to overturn the election, or the mar A Lago case 342 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 8: in Florida that has to do with classified documents. Voters 343 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 8: pretty much put those all into the same bag. 344 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: What did you make of the speech? By the way, 345 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: he started on the border. This is supposed to be 346 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: again a news conference on this first ever conviction, criminal 347 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 1: conviction of a former president. Started on the border. They're 348 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: ruining our country. They don't want to have cars, he said. 349 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: Then he got into the case a little bit, talked 350 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: about some of the stuff that we've heard before. It 351 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 1: was riggs Joe Biden, even though it's a state court. 352 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 1: Was there anything new here or you surprised he showed 353 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: up with kind of the same retribution speech. 354 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 8: If you missed it and you're wondering whether he said anything, 355 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 8: you haven't heard before. 356 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: The answer is probably know. 357 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 8: This was, as you say, a little bit in between 358 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 8: these daily statements that he's given outside of court for 359 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 8: the past five six weeks and a rally. I liked 360 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 8: what our colleague David Gera, how he put it from 361 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 8: outside the courthouse or outside Trump Tower earlier this morning. 362 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 8: It was kind of a supercut of Trump grievances over 363 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 8: the trial, interspersed with of all of his usual campaign 364 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 8: pronouncements about immigration and the stay of the country. 365 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: He called Joe Biden the dumbest president we've ever had. 366 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: He got some laughter in the crowd, which also made 367 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: me wonder how many reporters were there versus supporters he 368 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: got into January sixth, whether he called the National Guard. 369 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: I mean, this really was. We were all over the 370 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: place on this. But he talked about whether he would 371 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: have testified. He said, I wanted to testify. The theory 372 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,679 Speaker 1: is you never testify, but I would have loved to 373 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: have testified. He of course, never sat a chance of 374 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: testifying in this trial. 375 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 8: Right he has the constitutional right to testify. He also 376 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 8: has the constitutional right under the Fifth Amendment not to 377 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 8: testify and not have that held against him. He chose 378 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 8: not to testify. Look, and can you have it both 379 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 8: ways in the court of public opinion. You know, that's 380 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 8: the argument he's going to make. I think what he 381 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 8: said was if he had said it's a beautiful day 382 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 8: and it's raining outside, he might have been indicted for 383 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 8: and then he sort of trailed off to talk about 384 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 8: the actual weather outside. So, look, it's Trump. You kind 385 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 8: of expect that from him, and the jury made the 386 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,120 Speaker 8: decision based on the evidence they had without his deestimy. 387 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: Sometimes you say things enough times and people start to 388 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: believe it or consider it to be fact or cannon. 389 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,520 Speaker 1: And he keeps talking about this weaponization of government and 390 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: that this is Joe Biden's case. He said, quote, I'm 391 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: the leading person for president. I'm under a gag order 392 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: by a man that can't put two sentences together given 393 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: by a court, and they are in total conjunction with 394 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: the White House and the doj unquote do we have 395 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: any reason to believe that? 396 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 8: We don't? And you know, a couple of weeks ago, 397 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 8: Trump came out of the courtroom and made that exact 398 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 8: same point, but then he added a qualification to it, 399 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 8: is that I can't prove that but I think it's true. 400 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 8: So again, this is one of those arguments that that 401 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 8: the former president is going to make. Look, Alan Bragg 402 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 8: is also a Democrat. In this super partisan, polarized country 403 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,399 Speaker 8: that we live in now, it's hard to dismiss the 404 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 8: political aspect to all of this. It's an open question 405 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 8: if the same behavior had happened in a republican jurisdiction, 406 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 8: would the former president have been indicted. I don't know that. 407 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 8: I can only speculate that it would be less likely 408 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 8: to happen that way, right, So does he have a point? 409 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 8: Look at the That's up to each individual voter to decide, 410 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 8: and people are going to bring their own partisan frames 411 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 8: to that question. 412 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: We mentioned this thirty four point eight million dollar number 413 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: small donner on small dollar online contributions. The whales are 414 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: lying up too, though the mega donors are not spooked 415 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: by this. 416 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 8: Yeah, and that's interesting. Even before the verdict yesterday, we 417 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 8: started to see some of the Wall Street Titans, people 418 00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 8: like Bill Ackman, leaning towards supporting the former president. Here 419 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 8: they have been somewhat on the sidelines. Bill Hackman is 420 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,840 Speaker 8: a very interesting guy because he's been looking for any 421 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 8: alternative to a Trump Biden rematch right, he supported decent Phillips. 422 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 8: He's been curious about Robert F. Kennedy Junior, and now 423 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 8: seems to be maybe landing back towards President Trump. This 424 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 8: has been an agonizing election cycle for Wall Street to 425 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 8: try to figure out who is in their best interests. 426 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 8: They like Trump policies, they like the idea of tax cuts, 427 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 8: they like his views on regulation. They're not always so 428 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 8: sure about his respect for the rule of law, which 429 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 8: is very important in markets. 430 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: And christ why we didn't hear about any issues today? 431 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: Could and Donald Trump have gone in there and said, Hey, 432 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: we're going to fight this. I've got the entire Republican 433 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: Party America is at my back. We're going to make 434 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: the tax cuts permanent. We're going to start going through 435 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: a checklist of things that I can do if you 436 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: just elect me one more time. 437 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,280 Speaker 8: And in this case, I think you know, very often 438 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 8: Donald Trump is his own worst enemy right on the messaging. 439 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 8: He is so aggrieved by what is happening to him 440 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 8: in the courtroom that it has distracted him. And look, 441 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 8: he has been in the court room. He's been stuck there. 442 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 8: This is the hand that he's dealt. 443 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 2: But you. 444 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,719 Speaker 8: Yes, as of now, we have not seen a pivot 445 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 8: back to the campaign. And look, the sentencing is going 446 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 8: to be July eleventh, that's four days before the start 447 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 8: of the Republican National Convention. You have to think that 448 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 8: all of these legal issues are going to continue to 449 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 8: color Trump's rhetoric up until the convention and through the convention. 450 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: We're going to be in a convention hall where he's 451 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: doing a jailhouse call on the big screen. 452 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 8: That's going to be up to one person, and that's Judge. 453 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,640 Speaker 1: I'm really glad you could come by today, Greg, recording 454 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: with us from the campaign trail to Washington and right 455 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: here to the table at Bloomberg. 456 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 2: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 457 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 2: Just Live weekdays at noon on EPO, car Play, and 458 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 2: then broun Otto with the Bloomberg Business at Listen on 459 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 2: demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live 460 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 2: on YouTube. 461 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 3: President Biden not answering questions shouted at him by reporters 462 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 3: about Donald Trump's conviction yesterday, although he did in that 463 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 3: those remarks from the State Dining Room at the White 464 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 3: House address what happened yesterday, saying that it shows the 465 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 3: American principle that no one is above the law that 466 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 3: that was reaffirmed. He noted that it was a state case, 467 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 3: not a federal case, heard by a jury of twelve citizens, 468 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 3: and he said that's how the American system of justice works, 469 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 3: going on to say it would be reckless and dangerous 470 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 3: and irresponsible for anyone to say that this was rigged 471 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,840 Speaker 3: just because they don't like the verdict. But of course 472 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 3: it was then followed by pretty remarkable remarks on the 473 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 3: Middle East, the President Joe announcing in Israeli offer a 474 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 3: comprehensive new proposal to use his words, and a roadmap 475 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 3: to an enduring ceasefire and release of all hostages that 476 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 3: has been transmitted through Cutter to hamas three phases here. 477 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,439 Speaker 3: The first is a temporary ceasefire that would last six weeks. 478 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 3: Phase two would be a permanent end to hostilities, and 479 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: the President said if negotiations for that second phase take 480 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 3: longer than six weeks, the ceasefire will continue until phase 481 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 3: two is allowed to begin. 482 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, this was an important moment here, Kayley. Three phases 483 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: that would include the exchange of all remaining living hostages, 484 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 1: hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, we want to assemble our panel 485 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: to get their take on this. Rick Davis and Jeanie 486 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: Shanzano are with us Bloomberg Politics contributors on a day 487 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: we thought we'd be talking about Donald Trump's legal future, 488 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: and in part we are with the remarks here. I'm 489 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: going to start there with you both. Going into this 490 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 1: news conference, we were asking you or this set of 491 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: remarks by the president if you thought he would or 492 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 1: should address the case in New York. Genie. That is 493 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: exactly where he began time well spent. 494 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 7: It absolutely was and his tone was absolutely right. As 495 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 7: Kaylee just went through. He talked about the fact that 496 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 7: he was judged by a jury of his peers at 497 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 7: the state level, that this is the reality in the 498 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 7: United States, that nobody is above the law, and the 499 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 7: fact is Donald Trump can appeal this decision. But I 500 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 7: think one of the most important things I heard was 501 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 7: when he said it is irresponsible for anybody to be 502 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,239 Speaker 7: talking about this decision as rigged and to try to 503 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 7: delegitimize our judiciary. And that is something we've heard not 504 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 7: just from Donald Trump, but from the other leaders of 505 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,720 Speaker 7: the Republican Party right up to the highest elected official, 506 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 7: Mike Johnson to Governor Reynolds, to Lindsey Graham, to Marco Rubio. 507 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 7: I mean, the list goes on and on. It is irresponsible. 508 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 7: And when you know, the former governor of Marilynd, Larry Hogan, 509 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 7: came out yesterday and he said that the reality is 510 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 7: is that we should respect the decision. He was warned 511 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,080 Speaker 7: the Trump campaign that his election bid for the Senate 512 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,239 Speaker 7: is over. So the President was right on that and 513 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 7: his remarks were on point. 514 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 3: Rick. We'll get to what he said actually about the 515 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: proposal that Israel has put on the table here, but first, 516 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: do you agree with Genie's characterization? Did he strike the 517 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,320 Speaker 3: right tone here? 518 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 7: Yeah? 519 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 6: I certainly created a pretty stark contrast to what Donald 520 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 6: Trump did at the Trump Tower today with this rambling 521 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 6: one hour diatribe about grievances, So you know, makes a 522 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 6: good contrast, and I think did the basic minimum that 523 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 6: he could do. I would hope that Democrats would fan 524 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 6: out now and really go on the offensive, because we've 525 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 6: seen this act before, after Bill Clinton and the Star report. 526 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 6: He went in and really defined it and Republicans got 527 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 6: on defense. And so this is exactly the opposite from 528 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 6: a partisan nature. But I think the Biden folks are 529 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 6: going to have to go out and do more than 530 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 6: he did today. 531 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this proposal. We should make clear this 532 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: has not been accepted. What we just heard's been transmitted, 533 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: as the President told us by Cutter to Hamas. But Genie, 534 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: there are progressive Democrats who have been waiting for some 535 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: news here and a Biden Whitehouse and campaign looking for 536 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: a breakthrough. We just heard the details again summarized by Kayley, 537 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: a complete cease fire, withdrawal of Israeli forces, release of hostages, 538 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: living hostages, and hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. Does this sound 539 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: like a breakthrough moment to you? 540 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 7: You know, I hope it is. You know, it is 541 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 7: really hard to tell. While the President was talking, I 542 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 7: was thinking about the fact that the Middle East, going 543 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 7: all the way back to Richard Nixon, if not before, 544 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 7: has been really a stumbling block for American presidents left 545 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 7: right and center, Republican and Democrat, from Richard Nixon all 546 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 7: the way through, and so, you know, this is very tough. 547 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 7: The President said that we all want to see a breakthrough. 548 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 7: I think his tone is right, but I think it 549 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:14,120 Speaker 7: is very very early to declare something a breakthrough. You know, 550 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 7: it's very hard to trust Hamas. It's very hard to 551 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 7: know what they will do. We're talking about a six 552 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 7: week temporary cease fire in phase one and a permanent 553 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 7: ceasefire in phase two. That would be an amazing step forward, 554 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 7: but hard to say we're there at this point. But 555 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 7: I give the President and his team, including the CIA 556 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 7: director and the Secretary of State, you know, a lot 557 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,959 Speaker 7: of credit for working on this, and Cutter for working 558 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 7: at it as it has in terms of being a 559 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 7: middle manor state if you will, to try to make 560 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 7: progress on this. It is so much needed. And that 561 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 7: the remarks about the hostages, I think that's where all 562 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 7: of our minds should be. They have been suffering there 563 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 7: for far too long. 564 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 3: Well, Rick, the President essentially said that this deal is 565 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 3: on the table. Hamas says it wants to cease fire, 566 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 3: and he says this deal is an opportunity to prove 567 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 3: whether they really mean it, Seemingly addressing those words at 568 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 3: Hamas also, though seeming to speak to a domestic audience, 569 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 3: he said everyone who wants peace now must raise their voices, 570 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 3: suggesting they need to be pressuring Hamas to accept the 571 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 3: terms of this agreement. Does this help him domestically with 572 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 3: those people at home who have been pleading for peace. 573 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 6: Now, yeah, I think this is pretty smooth move on 574 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 6: the President's part. I mean, this is an Israeli offer, 575 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 6: looks really generous and reasonable, and I would say most 576 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 6: people don't think of the Israeli position on this as 577 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 6: being generous or reasonable lately, and he's putting. 578 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: It all on Hamas now. 579 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 6: And I thought what was really interesting about his comments 580 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 6: is he said that Israel has accomplished its goal, which 581 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 6: was to devastate Hamas and basically take them out as 582 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 6: a entity. And that's the first I've heard of that 583 00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 6: being determined. Israel I don't think has actually articulated that themselves. 584 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 6: So all this becomes available now that Hamas has been devastated, 585 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 6: and now all this is on the desk of the 586 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 6: Hamas leadership. And I think it was pretty interesting negotiating 587 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 6: strategy for the President to go out and use the 588 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 6: bullypull pit in the United States to put all the 589 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 6: heat now on Hamas. If this fails, it's Hamas. Only 590 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 6: anybody wants to criticize Joe Biden. All he can say is, hey, 591 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 6: we put this deal on that would end the hostilities 592 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 6: for good and Hamas didn't take it. It's all on Hamas, 593 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 6: So I like it. I think it's an appropriate way 594 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,000 Speaker 6: to use the presidency. And you know, now we look 595 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 6: like we're part of the campaign to get Hamas to 596 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 6: do the right thing. Hopefully it works out, because it's 597 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 6: better for everybody if it does. 598 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: Remarkable timing this day after the Trump verdict, and thanks 599 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: to our great panel for staying over time to help 600 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: us understand what we just heard, the implications here at 601 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: home and globally. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano, Bloomberg's signature 602 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: political panel here will have more with Rick and Jeanie 603 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 1: in the late edition of Ballants of Power that starts 604 00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: at five pm Washington time, as we add the voice 605 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: pick the Brain of Nick Wadams, who runs our national 606 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 1: security team here in Washington. A breaker that not everyone 607 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 1: saw coming today. This is a late ad on the 608 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: president's schedule. What do you make of the timing and 609 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: what we just heard. 610 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 9: Well, you know, obviously the timing is pretty interesting. I 611 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 9: think you're seeing a president who wants to put the 612 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,239 Speaker 9: focus very much back on policy, and it's also an 613 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,839 Speaker 9: element of deflection a little bit. He wants to put 614 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 9: the pressure on Hamas. He also wants to make a 615 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:42,439 Speaker 9: clear show to folks back home, both Republicans and Democrats, progressives, 616 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 9: kids on college campuses, who have been protesting all through 617 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 9: the spring. He is in the thick of this. He 618 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 9: is pressing for a solution and essentially saying, listen, this 619 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:51,879 Speaker 9: is our best chance right now. 620 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 3: Well, best chance doesn't necessarily mean a guaranteed outcome. Israel 621 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 3: has made a proposal in the past, is has not 622 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,359 Speaker 3: accepted proposals Hamas has made. So if this is now 623 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 3: in the hands of Hamas, how likely is it that 624 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 3: they're going to readily agree to this? 625 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,279 Speaker 9: Well, you know, that is the question. But the other 626 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 9: question I also have is how genuine is this proposal. 627 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 9: I mean, it was only a couple days ago that 628 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 9: Israel said we're going to need at least another seven 629 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 9: months to keep going after Hamas. So what Prime Minister 630 00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,719 Speaker 9: Benjamin na Who has made clear is they do not 631 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 9: want a situation where Hamas remains in operation. So how 632 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 9: can you do a ceasefire with an entity that you 633 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,440 Speaker 9: say you are determined not to let exist? And Israel 634 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 9: so far has just not answered that question. 635 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: Palestinian civilians would return to their homes, he says, including 636 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: in the north. Under Phase one, this I presume would 637 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: resonate in Gaza. What would be the impact for Joe 638 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: Biden's image on that side. 639 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 9: Well, I mean, I think what you're seeing here as 640 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 9: a president who is trying to walk a very fine 641 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:07,839 Speaker 9: line between the pressure from those who support Israel, which 642 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 9: is a significant portion of the Democratic Party and also 643 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 9: among Republicans, but the very vocal wing, increasingly vocal wing 644 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 9: of the Democratic Party that I believe he needs to 645 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 9: do a lot more to help Gosen. So when he's 646 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 9: saying things like that people will be allowed to return home, 647 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 9: he is making an explicit plea and sending an explicit 648 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 9: message to those progressives who really feel that he has 649 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 9: not done enough to support the people doesn't And this is. 650 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 3: All coming directly from President Biden himself. What should we 651 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 3: make of, Nick that this was announced not by Israel, 652 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 3: not by Cutter or Egypt, who have served as mediators. 653 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 3: Hamaus didn't say it had received this proposal President Biden, 654 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 3: Right is where we heard this from? 655 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 9: Well, I mean, I think what you're We've had a 656 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 9: lot happening in the shadows. The broad outlines of this 657 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 9: proposal were not a huge surprise. We had no own 658 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 9: about this idea of a phased approach. Some of the 659 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 9: specifics we're new, specifically on the number of humanitarian trucks 660 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,800 Speaker 9: with humanitarian aid that would go in some of the 661 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 9: details of the release. But all of that, I mean 662 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 9: is essentially he acknowledged is still stuff that needs to 663 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 9: be worked out. But I think what you're seeing as 664 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 9: a president who has had a CIA director over in 665 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 9: the region of quietly pushing for trying to get these 666 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 9: talks going and trying to just inject more momentum to say, listen, 667 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 9: I mean, everything that's going on Israeli troops in Rafa, 668 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 9: the campaign continues, we have a possibility for a pause 669 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 9: in the fighting. And he's really sending that message to 670 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 9: both sides to show that he's right in the thick 671 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 9: of this. 672 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,959 Speaker 1: Does a ceasefire, if this is accepted, a complete cease fire, 673 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: a permanent ceasefire, keep the ICC from pursuing the arrest 674 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,799 Speaker 1: of Benjamin Etna. 675 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 9: Well, I mean, it would certainly help defuse some of 676 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 9: the tension there. But you know, the ICC prosecutor is 677 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,920 Speaker 9: look making his case based on evidence that they have 678 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 9: accumulated in the past, already committed, that's been already committed. 679 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 9: I mean he is coming under a lot of pressure 680 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 9: right now. I mean they are seeking those warrants. The 681 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 9: arrest warrants have not been issued. That is a huge 682 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 9: focus for the US and Israel. But certainly if there 683 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 9: is a ceasefire, it gives them another case to make. 684 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 5: All right. 685 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 3: Nick Wadams, who leads our US national security team here 686 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,360 Speaker 3: at Bloomberg, thank you for running into the studio for 687 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,399 Speaker 3: us after we had this three phase plan outlined by 688 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 3: President Biden. The ONUS is now on Hamas to accept it. 689 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 3: And of course this comes the day after Donald Trump 690 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 3: was convicted on thirty four felon accounts of falsifying business records. 691 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 3: A lot of news here in Washington. 692 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. Make 693 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: sure to subscribe if you haven't already, Apple, Spotify, or 694 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find us 695 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern at 696 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com.