Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane. Daily
Speaker 1: we bring you insight from the best in economics, finance, investment,
Speaker 1: and international relations. Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and of course, on the Bloomberg I'm
Speaker 1: not an essential worker, folks. What I do know is
Speaker 1: they're out there in each city, each and every day.
Speaker 1: Patrick Foy writes her is CEO of the Metropolitan Transit Authority,
Speaker 1: over his brave essential workers, and he joins us right now,
Speaker 1: PET four. I thought it was wonderful that the young
Speaker 1: lad on his way to Rea just mentioned the West
Speaker 1: End Line, the Sea Beach Line, the subway of another
Speaker 1: time for Dr Fauci. What did he say to your
Speaker 1: employees yesterday? Well, Dr Fauci introduced himselves to our employees
Speaker 1: as Tony from Brooklyn UH and the most trusted person
Speaker 1: in America. Urged all transit workers, all empty employees for
Speaker 1: that matter, to get vaccinated. I thought it was a
Speaker 1: powerful message coming from him him. I I invited him
Speaker 1: when we talked UH in that in that in that call,
Speaker 1: he told me about his UH commute and the Sea
Speaker 1: Beach Line, which is a term that resonates with empty
Speaker 1: a Alzheimer's. But his messages for all empty employees and
Speaker 1: Todd frankly for all New Yorkers and Americans get get vaccinated.
Speaker 1: The issue now is a supply of vaccines. As Governor
Speaker 1: Como has made clear, a lot of reason to be
Speaker 1: optimistic with the new president in place from a vaccination
Speaker 1: point of view, and frankly optimism from a transportation point
Speaker 1: of view as well. Tom, do you have the resources
Speaker 1: translated money and funds to get vaccinated busy essential workers
Speaker 1: still doing their jobs through the day. The answer is yes.
Speaker 1: The The only limiting factor is not money. It's not time.
Speaker 1: It's availability of doses. Uh. The new administration is going
Speaker 1: to attack that aggressively. They talked about that yesterday. It's
Speaker 1: not a question of time, it's not a question of overtime.
Speaker 1: It's not a question of money. It's a question of
Speaker 1: doses the governor. The governor has made that clear. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: when you talk about a question of money, the m
Speaker 1: t A did postpone a four percent fair hike that
Speaker 1: had been planned for at least four months in anticipation
Speaker 1: in getting more aid from Washington. D C is this
Speaker 1: postponed or is this off the table if the m
Speaker 1: t A does receive that money now, at least it
Speaker 1: is postponed. We've pushed it off for several months. Look,
Speaker 1: I'll quote the President's favorite, the poet uh Shamushini, when
Speaker 1: he talked about this being a moment where hope and
Speaker 1: history rhyme. I think the election of a transit friendly,
Speaker 1: actually transit heavy transit user president and Joe Biden, the
Speaker 1: ascension of Senator show Or to the Senate majority position
Speaker 1: first ever from New York, the passage of the four
Speaker 1: billion dollars for the m t A in December, and
Speaker 1: the administration's planned to fund public transit, including the mt A,
Speaker 1: lots of reason to be optimistic. I've been pretty grim
Speaker 1: in my prior appearances, and to be clear, the empty
Speaker 1: A still faces overwhelming challenges and we're going to need
Speaker 1: an additional eight billion dollars over the next three years.
Speaker 1: But the funding that we received at the end of
Speaker 1: December will cover almost all of our deficit. We're good
Speaker 1: for one. We won't need to reduce service we had
Speaker 1: discussed or layoff thousands of people. Uh, And I think
Speaker 1: this may be a moment or hope, hope, and history
Speaker 1: do rhyme. Well, there's a financial deficit that you're hoping
Speaker 1: to address. What about the reputational deficit? The idea that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people concerned about the transmission
Speaker 1: of the virus. Unpacked trains, unpacked buses not so much
Speaker 1: a consideration right now because they're not that packed. What
Speaker 1: are you finding in studies about the transmission of COVID
Speaker 1: of other diseases on public transportation? So a great question.
Speaker 1: Let me approach it from two points of view. One
Speaker 1: is what our customers thinking. Of our customers, survey's say
Speaker 1: they've never seen subway stations or subway cars or buses
Speaker 1: as clean as they are now, disinfected multiple times a day.
Speaker 1: From a scientific point of view, uh, if mass compliance
Speaker 1: is high and on subways, buses, and the two commuter
Speaker 1: rails that we run, mass compliance player of customers is
Speaker 1: north of single most important thing any customer can do
Speaker 1: to protect him or herself, fellow commuters and our employees.
Speaker 1: And the research indicates that transit has nowhere in the world,
Speaker 1: been a vector of the of the virus, has not
Speaker 1: been a significant contributor. We're very focused on on mass
Speaker 1: compliance I and a lot of my colleagues are gonna
Speaker 1: be handing out masks again next next week. The mt
Speaker 1: A police and mt A staff have that. Uh and
Speaker 1: I took an early Long and One Railroad train. I
Speaker 1: arrived the subway. Every day people are wearing their masks
Speaker 1: on the trains and on platforms. Patrick Floyd Michael Kimmelman
Speaker 1: in The New York Times gave a Rave Rave, Rave
Speaker 1: Rave review to the Moynahan train hall. You mentioned the
Speaker 1: l I R R right now. What did you learn
Speaker 1: in the successful construction of Moynahan Well, a couple of things. First,
Speaker 1: under Governor Cuomo's leadership, big imaginative, old projects like this
Speaker 1: can get done. Moynahan Station is an incredible tribute first
Speaker 1: to the late Senator Daniel Patrick moynihan and and to
Speaker 1: the work of my colleagues that at the MTA Channel Leber, Uh,
Speaker 1: Michael Evans and others at Moynahan Station, Empire State Development.
Speaker 1: These projects can get done. The other thing, Tom is
Speaker 1: there is a new entrance to the Long Island Railroad
Speaker 1: on Seventh Avenue and thirty third Streak, which is breathtaking
Speaker 1: as you go up the escalator. They are views in
Speaker 1: the Empire State Building, and you've got customers just pausing
Speaker 1: thinking selfies, which is not a great thing to do
Speaker 1: on an escalator by an escalator, by the way, but
Speaker 1: it's just a striking entrance directly from thirty third Street
Speaker 1: to the Long Island Railroad. Uh area. I love that. Tom.
Speaker 1: By the way, did you hear that that Patrick was
Speaker 1: talking about the beauty of it and that Yeah, you
Speaker 1: do want to take a picture, but don't take a
Speaker 1: picture on the escalator, not of Patrick Foyd. Congratulations and
Speaker 1: his Mr Foyd mentions with the m t A get
Speaker 1: vaccinated greatly appreciate your attendance. Catherine Hokel is a New
Speaker 1: York Lieutenant Governor of the Empire State in discons in Buffalo.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a moment to step away from
Speaker 1: his hoard to consider the most important athlete in America.
Speaker 1: If you are a parent appalled by the jackocracy of America,
Speaker 1: the machine that makes people one sport wonders whether they
Speaker 1: go on to acclaim or not. Josh Allen is the
Speaker 1: most important athlete in America, not because he's with Hocal's
Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills, but because he was undrafted unloved and because
Speaker 1: he had the courage to do three sports in high school.
Speaker 1: Kathy Hoko, what does Josh Allen mean? To hear? Buffalo?
Speaker 1: Josh Allen symbolizes all of all that is Buffalo, the underdog,
Speaker 1: the scrappy kid who never got respect. That's been the life.
Speaker 1: I grew up in an industrial area where a lot
Speaker 1: of people left town for decades, and we're the brunt
Speaker 1: of late night jokes because of our snow storms, and
Speaker 1: so I I really relate to Josh Allen. He's one
Speaker 1: of us. I can't tell you enough, folks, the path
Speaker 1: of Josh Allen and what a throwback it is to
Speaker 1: another time onto the serious task at and Lieutenant governor.
Speaker 1: Is pandemic is here and already I hear talk of
Speaker 1: Republicans in Washington attempting to diminish or zero state and
Speaker 1: local aid. Can you assume you'll get that aid from Washington? Well,
Speaker 1: shame on them, for gosh sakes. I mean, do they
Speaker 1: not realize that there's one reason why we're not able
Speaker 1: to get this vaccine out there is that there has
Speaker 1: been the Trump administration that was the barrier. We need
Speaker 1: the money to be able to get this out. We
Speaker 1: need to be compensated for the fifteen billion dollars that
Speaker 1: we've lost during this pandemic. We spoke about this a lot,
Speaker 1: and the Republicans cannot be in the way they should.
Speaker 1: They should start reading the teleas there's a reason why
Speaker 1: it's a Republican I'm sorry, it's a Democratic House, it's
Speaker 1: a Democratic Senate, and now it's a Democratic White House.
Speaker 1: So they ought to understand that America is not with them.
Speaker 1: America wants Washington to fight this pandemic with every resource
Speaker 1: it has, and that includes three and fifty billion dollars
Speaker 1: going to state and local government so we can start
Speaker 1: paying to get this vaccine out there and helping downtown
Speaker 1: places like Midtown Manhattany just mentioned start having a comeback.
Speaker 1: And so we're focused on this and Republicans better not
Speaker 1: getting away. In the meantime, Cathy, The New York State
Speaker 1: and New York City regions are facing historic budget deficit
Speaker 1: uh and Governor Cuomo put out some new was this
Speaker 1: week saying that he was planning to raise the top
Speaker 1: tax rate in New York City to fourteen point seven
Speaker 1: percent state and local taxes. That would be the highest
Speaker 1: rate in the nation. How realistic is this, Kathy, mean,
Speaker 1: what's the potential consequence in terms of the tax base
Speaker 1: and wealthier individuals continuing to leave the area. Well, I
Speaker 1: think what you're talking about is what the governor laid
Speaker 1: out is the worst case scenario, and that's if we
Speaker 1: don't receive the fifteen billion dollars that we really think
Speaker 1: is legitimate. If you look at even a share of
Speaker 1: our population as share that our fate should be receiving
Speaker 1: of the three billion dollars, if that is the amount approved,
Speaker 1: we should be getting upwards of fifteen billion dollars. And
Speaker 1: if they get less, if they get a six billion,
Speaker 1: then only and then, and only then. The governor said,
Speaker 1: we're going to have to do things that none of
Speaker 1: us want to do, but we'd have to raise some
Speaker 1: of the taxes borrow have substantial cuts to be extremely
Speaker 1: painful during a pandemic. And I think he laid out
Speaker 1: that scenario just so you know, the people in Washington
Speaker 1: can understand that we can't have that as the plan A.
Speaker 1: That has to be something that we don't even get to.
Speaker 1: So our best option is to have a fifteen billion
Speaker 1: dollars share of that federal aid and then we would
Speaker 1: not have to raise taxes. We are a cognizant of
Speaker 1: the effect that that has on people's decisions to stay,
Speaker 1: especially the people who are supporting our economy financially, the
Speaker 1: business makers. We understand that, but we also have to
Speaker 1: deal in the reality we cannot sustain a budgets deposits
Speaker 1: that large lieutenant government just to finish on the issue
Speaker 1: of vaccinations in the vaccine rollout. What is the issue
Speaker 1: right now that slowing things down? From your side, what
Speaker 1: would you like to say, Oh, it's absolutely supplied. The
Speaker 1: Defense Production Act if it had been invoked by President
Speaker 1: Trump even six months ago to have the PPE. Remember,
Speaker 1: we were scouring the earth just to give masks and
Speaker 1: how to go to China and compete with other countries.
Speaker 1: That was disgusting. So now we have the same scenario,
Speaker 1: we could be ramping up vaccine production. So I was
Speaker 1: at two of our sites yesterday. I was at Jones Beach,
Speaker 1: I was at Aqueduct, and I opened up all the facilities.
Speaker 1: And upstate New York we have mass distribution sites. They're
Speaker 1: doing about five a day, sometimes a thousand. We could
Speaker 1: double triple that overnight. We have the capacity, We have
Speaker 1: the staff. We have everything in place. It is simply
Speaker 1: we need that spick it turned on to be able
Speaker 1: to give us the supply. We can get it out.
Speaker 1: We're ready for it. We've been waiting. Our residents are
Speaker 1: desperately waiting for this. But with and we've actually administered
Speaker 1: nine percent of the vaccines that we've been given. That's
Speaker 1: one of the highest in the nation. I think I
Speaker 1: heard today that Georgia had already administered about So we're
Speaker 1: getting it out there. We just need more of it.
Speaker 1: Of New York Kathy howk Cathy come back saying the
Speaker 1: conversation we need to continue on the vaccine rollout. John,
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do is get back on script
Speaker 1: with investment in finance. We can do that with this guest,
Speaker 1: Mike uh. John Wilson has just been really nuanced in
Speaker 1: supple from Morgan Stanley. It just fantastic. The whole same
Speaker 1: over at Morgan Stanley last year, coming out of this crisis,
Speaker 1: coming out of March into Spring and beyond, Mike Wilson
Speaker 1: on places side joined us. Now, Mike, you dusted off
Speaker 1: the old recession playbook, and many people didn't want to
Speaker 1: look at it. You pushed it and pushed it hard
Speaker 1: and put on risk when others were uncomfortable, and it
Speaker 1: was the right tray to make through to the end
Speaker 1: of twenty into twenty one. Mike, everyone's still looking for
Speaker 1: that historical parallel. Do you think that's how ful right now?
Speaker 1: And where do you find it? What do you lean into? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: thanks you guys, thanks for having me on. Look, I
Speaker 1: think the recession playbook, recovery playbook is is right on track. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, every recession crisis is different, unique in its
Speaker 1: own way. But markets, you know, obviously look forward and
Speaker 1: you know, I think the markets are very clear right
Speaker 1: now in their view about two thousand twenty one it
Speaker 1: is going to be a boom in terms of economic growth. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we have to get through these hurdles of vaccination and
Speaker 1: all the hand ringing around politics and everything else, But
Speaker 1: ultimately the market is discounting a very powerful recovery. In fact,
Speaker 1: the move that we've seen more recently in things like
Speaker 1: small caps and the typical parts of the market that
Speaker 1: we've been preferring just you know, kind of confirms that
Speaker 1: even more for us. Here's where we think things are
Speaker 1: going next though. The next step in the procession playbook
Speaker 1: is a consolidation for a long period of time. You
Speaker 1: always get multiple expansion as earnings are normalizing out of
Speaker 1: the recession. That's what we've gotten. Then you go through
Speaker 1: a period, you get multiple contraction as people have understood
Speaker 1: that earnings are going up. And what that means is
Speaker 1: that earnings will continue to go up in terms of revision,
Speaker 1: but multiples will come down and the market just goes
Speaker 1: sideways for a period of six or seven months. When
Speaker 1: I say the market, I mean the SMP five hundreds.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean there's nothing to do right. There's going
Speaker 1: to be terrific rotation still and things to do within
Speaker 1: the equity market. That's where all the action is. It's
Speaker 1: underneath the surface. Mike Wilson, good morning. The her Fandel
Speaker 1: Herschman index is something we study in finance, and folks,
Speaker 1: it applies across all of the social sciences. And what
Speaker 1: this comes down to, Mike Wilson, is a measurement of
Speaker 1: the concentration in the market. I'm not going to go
Speaker 1: into the Newtonian math, but Mike Wilson, you observe we
Speaker 1: are less concentrated, absolutely, tom and that's part of the
Speaker 1: story as well as you come First of all, as
Speaker 1: you go into a recession, which you know, we were
Speaker 1: talking about an eighteen and nineteen, the market gets more concentrated,
Speaker 1: the returns become more narrow as the market gravitates to
Speaker 1: these larger cap companies that are somewhat defensive, and that
Speaker 1: was saying in the last cycle. Then as you come
Speaker 1: out of the recession, what happens is that money that's
Speaker 1: been concentrated decides, hey, there's other opportunities out there, and
Speaker 1: it broadens out. And that's exactly what's happened this time around.
Speaker 1: It's a very healthy development, that's what you want to see.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's actually a confirmation once again,
Speaker 1: and in fact that it's not just a new bowl market,
Speaker 1: it's a new economic cycle. All right. So given a
Speaker 1: fact that it's a positive, let's go to that negative
Speaker 1: that you were talking about, because that's what I do.
Speaker 1: The next step in the playbook is consolidation and talk
Speaker 1: about potential triggers, one of them being a potential taper tantrum.
Speaker 1: Should the Feds start talking about reducing their monthly bond purchases,
Speaker 1: how at risk our equity valuations In that case, yeah,
Speaker 1: at least. I mean it's you know that we've had
Speaker 1: a view that rates will ultimately adjust to uh, the
Speaker 1: economic developments the way equities have, even if the FED
Speaker 1: is on hold, because you know, markets are forward thinking.
Speaker 1: But you know, rates have been slow in that development.
Speaker 1: They've moved up, but they haven't moved up, you know,
Speaker 1: in a way that is really disruptive to valuations. Yet.
Speaker 1: So absolutely, as it becomes clear right now everybody's pessimistic
Speaker 1: on the vaccinations, right, my guest is in two months,
Speaker 1: people are going to be saying, Wow, what a great
Speaker 1: job we did. I mean, you know, we we spent
Speaker 1: more money, we got the vaccinations down, people got got vaccinated,
Speaker 1: and and and there's going to be a light switch
Speaker 1: at some point in the next two or three months
Speaker 1: where people realize, actually, we are going to make it.
Speaker 1: And that's people start booking travel and they start doing
Speaker 1: things they haven't been doing, and that's that's when the
Speaker 1: bond market will wake up. So that's a potential risk.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a near term risk. I think
Speaker 1: the risk in the near term is more that things
Speaker 1: have gotten a little speculative. Um, we see it all
Speaker 1: over the market. Place, you know, penny stocks, you know
Speaker 1: some of the chat boards are going crazy now, cryptocurrencies,
Speaker 1: you name it, right, things are really going a little
Speaker 1: bit bonkers. And if that starts to fade, that could
Speaker 1: be another risk to where some of the you know,
Speaker 1: some of the new entrants to financial markets take a
Speaker 1: little paint things going a little bit bonkers. That cf
Speaker 1: A talk. I love it, Mike, when you talk though
Speaker 1: about a lightbulb going off and the bond market kind
Speaker 1: of getting switched on here a little bit. When you
Speaker 1: see yields rise, what kind of increase could you see
Speaker 1: making a material dent and equity valuations. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: obviously nobody knows, but I would suggest that if you
Speaker 1: start to break through the levels we saw in in
Speaker 1: March of last year when it was risk off even
Speaker 1: for treasuries, that technically that open us up to some
Speaker 1: much higher levels. Meaning if you get through and a
Speaker 1: ten year it opens you up to sort of the
Speaker 1: old support which is one fifty and then and then
Speaker 1: you can even move higher than that. So you know,
Speaker 1: my experience in doing this for a long time is
Speaker 1: that markets move in a nonlinear fashion, right, they kind
Speaker 1: of consolid They can tell an all of a sudden
Speaker 1: they wake up one day and if that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's not what's price. What's price right now is just
Speaker 1: this very beautiful, gradual sort of rise and race that's
Speaker 1: offset by earnings. That's possible, just not the way you
Speaker 1: usually happen, you think, Mike, well, part of it, John,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's a little different. Like I
Speaker 1: do not something to make it clear, I do not
Speaker 1: expect the FED to come out tomorrow and say we're tapering, right.
Speaker 1: They've been very adamant about that. The FED is committed
Speaker 1: to keeping front end rates lower, doing their quantitative easing purchases,
Speaker 1: you know, probably longer than they did even in the
Speaker 1: last cycle. But once again, remember markets will move ahead
Speaker 1: the old bond vigilante. Remember the old bond vigilanti, Well,
Speaker 1: right now it's the equity vigilante, because they mean, the
Speaker 1: equity markets aren't as as pen, and the equity markets
Speaker 1: are telling you in no uncertain terms as our commodities
Speaker 1: that inflation and growth are going to be better of
Speaker 1: the next six or nine months. At some point, I
Speaker 1: do believe the bombmarket will move ahead of the fet Mike,
Speaker 1: looking forward to stand on the journey with you through
Speaker 1: the year ahead. Mike Wilson there of Morgan Staney my
Speaker 1: thank you and Steve Weisen winners from Newberger Berman Steve.
Speaker 1: It's maybe not evident on TV or radio, but I
Speaker 1: have been a harsh critic of people shopping short ideas.
Speaker 1: You and forget about the movie acclaim have always been
Speaker 1: incredibly graceful of setting up why you are shorting a position.
Speaker 1: Describe a present short position with the iceman grace. No,
Speaker 1: I tho't be so graceful on this one. So this
Speaker 1: is my largest short. It's a company called Credit Acceptance
Speaker 1: c A c C is the symbol. It's probably the
Speaker 1: largest subprime auto lender in the United States. UM, let
Speaker 1: me make it very clear, this is not a short.
Speaker 1: Thinking that the company is going to suffer credit losses
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with it. This is a pure
Speaker 1: regulatory story for anyone was interested. Company was sued by
Speaker 1: the Massachusetts Attorney General in the summer of two thousand
Speaker 1: and twenty for predatory lending practices. The point is an
Speaker 1: unbelievable document um incredibly details detailed, providing a litany of
Speaker 1: predatory lending practices that are the only way to describe it.
Speaker 1: Is disgusting, and with a new head of Consumer Financial
Speaker 1: Protection Bureau going to take charge soon, I think this
Speaker 1: is there's a potential here for this company to be
Speaker 1: regulated to a much, much lower level of profitability at
Speaker 1: the very least. When when you look Steve Iceman at
Speaker 1: c A c C and you know what they're doing,
Speaker 1: we say good morning to them and Southfield, Michigan Brett Robertson,
Speaker 1: Kenneth Booth. Do you speak to the company about your criticisms?
Speaker 1: Do you communicate with the company in this case? I
Speaker 1: have no interest in talking to the company. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I simply look at the complaint by the Massachusetts Attorney General. Um.
Speaker 1: Under the assumption that the complaint is accurate. Um, this
Speaker 1: company is going to suffer a lot of regulatory changes.
Speaker 1: That's my simple thesis. And I don't see any point
Speaker 1: in this case talking to the company about it because
Speaker 1: they'll just deny it. So there's nothing to discussed. Um, Stephen.
Speaker 1: Is there a part to the market. So we talked
Speaker 1: about US banks? You like US Banks? You just talked
Speaker 1: about a company that you're shorting. Is there another more
Speaker 1: of an industry or an asset class that you think
Speaker 1: is just running too hot right now. I mean, we
Speaker 1: could have an academic discussion about you know, stocks that
Speaker 1: I think are overvalued. Um, But you know the problem
Speaker 1: is that as long as the Fed keeps rates at
Speaker 1: zero and money is free, I think that that discussion
Speaker 1: is academic. Um. I'm never sure to stock just because
Speaker 1: I think it's overvalued, you know, in an age of disruption,
Speaker 1: I think that's a recipe for SASTA. Yeah. I know,
Speaker 1: Steve that Tom wants talk about bitcoin, but you did
Speaker 1: write a essay in the New York Times saying that
Speaker 1: actually income inequality is the big problem of our times.
Speaker 1: How does it factor into your thinking? I mean, look,
Speaker 1: that's my personal political view. It doesn't really impact my
Speaker 1: view of investing unless something happens politically that changes policy. Um,
Speaker 1: we'll see if if this administration does anything aggressively about it.
Speaker 1: But you know, my feeling is that what this administration
Speaker 1: is going to do first is do a lot of
Speaker 1: fiscal stimulat US, a lot of infrastructure spending, and only
Speaker 1: later will they start to deal with the tax coats.
Speaker 1: So I think that's tomorrow's business, Steve. I was reading Variety.
Speaker 1: They were flogging the Queen's gambut on the cover, and
Speaker 1: you know they're talking up the next movie is going
Speaker 1: to be The Big Bitcoin. Your thoughts on bitcoin, the
Speaker 1: Economist is a general rule are scathing about how governments
Speaker 1: will step in and regulate bitcoin to a lower price point.
Speaker 1: As well. Many of the banks are really beginning to
Speaker 1: experiment and figure out what to do with it. What
Speaker 1: does Steve Eisman do with a big bitcoin? Steve Eisman
Speaker 1: does nothing with a big, big coin. I stay out
Speaker 1: of it. I don't understand it. Um is it possible
Speaker 1: that it will be regulated to a lower price. It's
Speaker 1: certainly possible, But I haven't seen anything that would cause
Speaker 1: me a thing, so so I think the better part
Speaker 1: of valet or is it just stay away. I don't
Speaker 1: understand it. I know how to value it, and I
Speaker 1: don't understand something. I just don't get involved. Do you
Speaker 1: think it's a legitimate market? And by that, Steve, I
Speaker 1: mean you know you're a new Burger Burgan, You've got
Speaker 1: your Bloomberg terminal, the symbols XPT currency. Do you have
Speaker 1: any belief that it's a legit? Bitter asked? Or is
Speaker 1: it manufactured? I mean it's a bit answer people that
Speaker 1: they're buying or selling. But I think they're buying my
Speaker 1: personal opinion, I think they're buying or selling something that's
Speaker 1: impossible to value. So you know, it's one thing to
Speaker 1: talk about what's the US dollar yen valuation? You know,
Speaker 1: when you're talking about bitcoin. I think it's more like
Speaker 1: talking about how many angels dance on the head of
Speaker 1: a pin. I mean, I don't want to answer the
Speaker 1: question where do you see Stephen ended, you know, just
Speaker 1: just to not tooever, we are out to accredit acceptance
Speaker 1: for comment after what you said and the fact that
Speaker 1: you're shorting the company. But Steven, what does dollar do
Speaker 1: from here? So you know, if we get back to
Speaker 1: something that maybe is easier to value than bitcoin. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: you know this is one thing. I mean, doll dollar value,
Speaker 1: the dollars used to value bitcoin. Um. I find the
Speaker 1: cold currency world, generally speaking, a difficult world. And I
Speaker 1: don't do anything in currency. Whatever I invest overseas, I
Speaker 1: always hedged the currency UM. So it's just not something
Speaker 1: that I ever have a very strong opinion about one
Speaker 1: way or the other. Steve, I's one final question I
Speaker 1: think very very important, and it's just understood you or
Speaker 1: new Burger Berman could set up your own process to
Speaker 1: do a spack to do these new structures of I
Speaker 1: p O s or miles away from lunches at the Hilton.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the new manufacturer of speculation
Speaker 1: to bring companies public? I mean, it scares me a
Speaker 1: little bit that that, you know, it seems to have
Speaker 1: circumvented in some ways the whole I p O process,
Speaker 1: which you know, the thirty three and thirty four Act
Speaker 1: that created basically our entire regulatory structure, hes done a
Speaker 1: very good job. Um. I think it'd be very interesting
Speaker 1: to see what the new head of the sec Gary
Speaker 1: does about it. Um. You know, I think Gary is
Speaker 1: a very good choice. I've know him a little bit,
Speaker 1: and we'll see if he addresses it. Until but until
Speaker 1: until somebody addresses it, it's going to go on. We'll see.
Speaker 1: This is right where I wanted to go. Mr Gesler
Speaker 1: widely presumed to come in and take a tougher tone.
Speaker 1: Did these spects occur because of a lesser fair structure
Speaker 1: of the Trump administration? No? I don't. Maybe to a degree.
Speaker 1: I mean, the the head of the sec UM under
Speaker 1: the Trump took a very lessie fair attitude. But I
Speaker 1: think that's part of it, but I think more importantly
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a function of the free money out there,
Speaker 1: and both license at the FED has given people to
Speaker 1: speculate at will Berg and Steve Iceland, generous of your time,
Speaker 1: did I greatly appreciate it with new Berger Berman and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and
Speaker 1: listen to interviews on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whichever podcast
Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm on Twitter at Tom Keene before
Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Radio