WEBVTT - Lives of Crime | 3. Making Money

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<v Speaker 1>So listen all at once ad free. Subscribe to True

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<v Speaker 1>Crime Clubhouse on Apple Podcasts. Welcome to Lives of Crime,

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<v Speaker 1>True Crime from True Criminals. I'm Steve Fishman from Orbit Media.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's episode is a first person account from Jeff Turner.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a counterfeitter, one of the best of his generations.

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<v Speaker 1>He was persistent, resourceful, skilled, and inventive in ways you

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<v Speaker 1>won't believe, in ways US Treasury agents couldn't believe. And

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<v Speaker 1>he did it all for love. We call this episode

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<v Speaker 1>making Money.

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<v Speaker 2>I met this girl, Jessica, and you know, we hit

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<v Speaker 2>it off, started dating, and after about a year or two,

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<v Speaker 2>we decided to just kind of move away, get get

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<v Speaker 2>out of Florida. So we moved up to Knoxville, where

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<v Speaker 2>we got married. We had a couple kids. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>it was really good for a while. Like I was

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<v Speaker 2>still doing drugs, but it was like completely like manageable.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd come home, She'd be cooking dinner. As I walk in,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the kids would run up to me. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>We had a nice car, a nice house. Really it

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<v Speaker 2>was like American dream shit. My marriage was happy for

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<v Speaker 2>a long time. I was working like sixty seventy hour

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<v Speaker 2>weeks at this sign company, and you know, we had

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<v Speaker 2>a newborn baby at home, so I wasn't getting hardly

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<v Speaker 2>any sleep, feeding the baby every two hours. So I

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<v Speaker 2>got a call from the owner asking if I could

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<v Speaker 2>work on Saturday to do these service calls. I hardly

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<v Speaker 2>slept the night before, like at all, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>went into work at like eight am. I was by myself.

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<v Speaker 2>I was driving a bucket truck. I was so tired.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like slapping my face trying to stay awake,

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<v Speaker 2>turning the radio on, rolling the windows down, you know

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<v Speaker 2>what I mean. I remember I'd like just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>close my eyes for a second, and then i'd hear

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<v Speaker 2>the little reflectors hit the tire, and I'd wake up

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<v Speaker 2>and go back on the road and smoke a cigarette

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<v Speaker 2>to stay up, and then you know, I'd close my

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<v Speaker 2>eyes for a second. But then my tire went off

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<v Speaker 2>into this little embankment. So I woke up again and

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<v Speaker 2>jerked the wheel. But because that front right tire went

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<v Speaker 2>down into the embankment just a little bit, when I

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<v Speaker 2>jerked the wheel, it just turned and flipped, so like

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<v Speaker 2>the bucket truck flipped like six times. While it was flipping,

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<v Speaker 2>my head shattered the window. So I just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>came to in this upside down bucket truck. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>my whole shirt was just red from blood, and they

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<v Speaker 2>found ballasts like hundreds of yards from the truck. It

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<v Speaker 2>was just everything flew out. So the owner of that

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<v Speaker 2>sign company knew I was on drugs, but he kind

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<v Speaker 2>of just looked the other way because, like, I was

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<v Speaker 2>a good worker, but after I wrecked the truck, he

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<v Speaker 2>felt obligated to just fire me. Rent was due, our

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<v Speaker 2>lease was up in a couple months. I was a

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<v Speaker 2>functioning addict. We didn't have a lot of money, didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have enough to even pay rent. So me and my

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<v Speaker 2>wife had the conversation like, you know, what are we

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<v Speaker 2>gonna do? How are we gonna make this work? And

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<v Speaker 2>I was at a point to where I was literally

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<v Speaker 2>planning a bank robbery. I was looking online for real

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<v Speaker 2>flesh silicone masks, realistic masks that looked like an old man,

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<v Speaker 2>and like, like I was really like about to rob

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<v Speaker 2>a bank. I thought about that for a while, but

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<v Speaker 2>I was just like skeptical. I was like, man, I've

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<v Speaker 2>got kids. The FBI is gonna kick in my fucking

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<v Speaker 2>door if I got gone you know, with swat teams

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff. Then it was just straight to counterfeiting. It

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<v Speaker 2>was like, well, no, once I thought about that, I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, what am I thinking? Counterfeiting is the

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<v Speaker 2>way to go. I was all in with it. I

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<v Speaker 2>was always honest with my wife, and I remember telling

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<v Speaker 2>her I'm going to start counterfeiting, and I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>she thought I was serious. You know, we were in

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<v Speaker 2>a desperate situation, so she was kind of just like

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<v Speaker 2>jokingly like go for it, and I was serious. So

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<v Speaker 2>I was like all right, but in the back of

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<v Speaker 2>her mind thinking like, oh, well, we have to figure

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<v Speaker 2>something else out. It wasn't until a couple of weeks

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<v Speaker 2>later that I printed out my first like a first

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<v Speaker 2>twenty dollar bill, and she saw it and was like

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<v Speaker 2>shocked at how real it looked. Then I think she

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<v Speaker 2>kind of realized, like, oh shit, this looks good. I've

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<v Speaker 2>always had this obsessive, compulsive attention to detail. Like I

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<v Speaker 2>decided I wanted to learn guitar when I was twelve

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<v Speaker 2>years old, and I literally sat in my bedroom for

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<v Speaker 2>eight hours a day every day for years until I

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<v Speaker 2>could sweep arpeggios and play any unaccompanied jazz song. I wanted,

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<v Speaker 2>and basically, as a teenager, I was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>few kids that could buy beer because I was printing

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<v Speaker 2>fake IDs. They weren't really sophisticated or anything like. I

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<v Speaker 2>literally started by just printing them, scanning my ID, changing

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<v Speaker 2>some numbers, and printing it on a piece of paper

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<v Speaker 2>and then just sticking the piece of paper into like

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<v Speaker 2>the clear sleeve of my wallet. All my friends, of

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<v Speaker 2>course wanted them, so then I'd start selling them to

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<v Speaker 2>my friends for like fifty bucks apiece. But that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of like made me realize, like, well, shit, you can

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<v Speaker 2>forge things and you know, be successful at it. And

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<v Speaker 2>then I read the book The Art of Making Money

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<v Speaker 2>about Art Williams, who printed millions, and in that book

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<v Speaker 2>it roughly explains how he did it. And that's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>after I read that book, then it was like I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to try try to print money. Then. I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I was just using basic printers, you know, like my parents'

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<v Speaker 2>printer that they had, and you know they were they'd

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<v Speaker 2>be gone for you know, eight hours a day or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, you just go into the little den

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<v Speaker 2>with the computer and printer and print them out. It

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<v Speaker 2>really wasn't like this huge money maker, but as a

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen year old kid, every couple of weeks i'd make

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred bucks. At first, I didn't really want my

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<v Speaker 2>wife involved. She knew what was going on, but I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of try to keep her away from everything. I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to insulate her. But eventually she became my partner

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<v Speaker 2>in crime. You know. It kind of morphed into a

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<v Speaker 2>Bunnie and Clyde type relationship. I knew I needed to

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<v Speaker 2>find thin paper to sandwich two sheets together, and that

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<v Speaker 2>was the main challenge. I read that you could coat

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<v Speaker 2>the paper with matt nail polish, clear nail polish, like

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<v Speaker 2>a top coat, and that would prevent the counterfeit pens

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<v Speaker 2>from reacting to the paper. So I knew a way

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<v Speaker 2>to beat the counterfeit pens. But I needed just paper

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<v Speaker 2>that was thin enough to put two pieces together. And

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<v Speaker 2>I found like tracing paper, tried like the wrapper to

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<v Speaker 2>toilet paper. I found rice paper and vellum paper, and

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<v Speaker 2>I just stumbled across Bible paper. It was perfect. It

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<v Speaker 2>was thin enough, it was opaque enough. I hit it

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<v Speaker 2>with a black light and it glowed a dull purple,

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<v Speaker 2>just like money. So when I found this Bible paper,

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<v Speaker 2>it was like a fucking light bulb that just went

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<v Speaker 2>over my head. I knew this was like, I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is fucking perfect. I was just like fucking esthetic.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I knew. I was like, this is it? Like

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<v Speaker 2>this is it. I looked online to try to buy

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<v Speaker 2>Bible paper in bulk. The wholesalers that I found sell

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<v Speaker 2>it in giant reams to like publishing companies that produce Bibles,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was a little nervous to order a palette

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<v Speaker 2>of Bible paper. In Knoxville, Tennessee. My wife was contacting

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<v Speaker 2>churches and getting donations of boxes of bibles. Guy thought

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<v Speaker 2>the best way to stay anonymous was just like I've

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<v Speaker 2>just started going to bookstores and finding Bibles and just

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<v Speaker 2>taking the blank pages out of them. There's usually one

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<v Speaker 2>or two pages in the front that are just blank,

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<v Speaker 2>and then there's usually like two three, four blank pages

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<v Speaker 2>in the back. You know, I'd go to bookstores and

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<v Speaker 2>basically just go stand in the aisle and pretend like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm reading the Bible and pick up one find the

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<v Speaker 2>blank pages, kind of rip out the four blank pages

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<v Speaker 2>in the back and put them in the pocket, and

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<v Speaker 2>grab another one and just kind of rip them all out.

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<v Speaker 2>We went to every bookstore in Knoxville until there was

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<v Speaker 2>no more Bible paper. We went to all the bookstores

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<v Speaker 2>in Chattanooga. We went down to Atlanta and all the

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<v Speaker 2>little cities in between Knoxville and Atlanta, and up to Cleveland, Ohio.

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<v Speaker 2>By the time I was actively counterfeiting, we started staying

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<v Speaker 2>at a hotels. We'd try to get like handicap accessible

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<v Speaker 2>rooms because they had like a really big bathroom, and

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<v Speaker 2>I would kind of set up shop in the bathroom,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. I'd run a power cord from like the

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<v Speaker 2>little power outlet by the sink and have a laptop

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<v Speaker 2>and two or three printers. There was always one Bible

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<v Speaker 2>in the nightstand, so every new hotel room might take

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<v Speaker 2>the two or three blank pages out of the Bible

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<v Speaker 2>because it was right there. And eventually we were in

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<v Speaker 2>a hotel and there wasn't a Bible in the nightstand.

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<v Speaker 2>We called a front desk and said it was not

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<v Speaker 2>a Bible in the nightstand, and she said, oh, we'll

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<v Speaker 2>send one up. Then this may that guy at the

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<v Speaker 2>hotel knocked on our hotel room door and gave us

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<v Speaker 2>a Bible. So I basically was like, hey, you have

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<v Speaker 2>more of these Bibles, and he was like, yeah, there's

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<v Speaker 2>boxes in the maintenance closet. We have them upon request.

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<v Speaker 2>So I basically was like, listen, I'll give you one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred dollars if you can give me all these boxes

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<v Speaker 2>of bibles. So he brought us like three boxes full

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<v Speaker 2>of bibles, and we went through, took all the blank

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<v Speaker 2>pages out of all of them, and then gave him back.

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<v Speaker 2>He was confused, like why the fuck did they want

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<v Speaker 2>these three boxes of bibles? For two hours and then

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<v Speaker 2>they gave him back, But I gave him one hundred dollars,

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<v Speaker 2>so he didn't care. When I first started, I was

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<v Speaker 2>working on him for thirty minutes, but eventually I got

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<v Speaker 2>it down to where I could make one hundred dollar

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<v Speaker 2>bill in probably five minutes. I would constantly edit the

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<v Speaker 2>images and photoshop and sharpen them, and they just got

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<v Speaker 2>better and better as time went on. Basically, like scanners

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<v Speaker 2>and printers recognized the image of one hundred dollars bill

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<v Speaker 2>and by recognizing that it knows that it's currency and

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<v Speaker 2>it won't let you print it or scan it. So

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<v Speaker 2>in order to get the digital images, I would simply

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<v Speaker 2>take a photo of them, get a new crisp hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars bill, lay it on a flat on the table,

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<v Speaker 2>take a high resolution camera and just snap a photo,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you can upload that photo and crop around

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<v Speaker 2>it to take out the background and edit the image.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd print the background color and then i'd put it

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<v Speaker 2>back in the printer and print the green Treasury seals

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<v Speaker 2>and serial numbers, and then put it back in the

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<v Speaker 2>printer and print all the black hork And that was

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<v Speaker 2>the front of the bill, and I would take the

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<v Speaker 2>reverse side and just lightly missed on some gorilla glue spray,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'd line it up just right and then squeegem together.

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<v Speaker 2>And then after that I would spray on a thick

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<v Speaker 2>coat of matt lacquer spray, which that would coat the

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<v Speaker 2>paper so the counterfeit pens wouldn't turn black because the

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<v Speaker 2>counterfeit pens basically are iodine ink, and the iodine in

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<v Speaker 2>the ink reacts to starch in paper. So if I

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<v Speaker 2>sprayed the bills with a Matte lacquer spray, it would

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<v Speaker 2>coat the paper, so the ink in the pens couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>react to the starch in the paper because it's not

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<v Speaker 2>touching it because it's coated with Matt Lacquer. You get

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<v Speaker 2>the muscle memory of just the right amount of missing on,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because if you spray too much gorilla glue,

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<v Speaker 2>it'll be too thick. Just one little that that's enough.

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<v Speaker 2>When I first was able to make a one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars bill, I thought, you know, this is it. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be rich for the rest of my life, like

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<v Speaker 2>money will longer be a problem ever again, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>And at this point I wasn't considering that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I get caught. You know, you don't really think you're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna get caught until they kicked your door in. The

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<v Speaker 2>first bill that I broke myself in a store was

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<v Speaker 2>at a taco bell across from the Knoxville Airport. I

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<v Speaker 2>was definitely super nervous going into it. I kind of

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<v Speaker 2>broke this bill out of desperation. It was probably just

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<v Speaker 2>before midnight. It was late. I parked my car a

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<v Speaker 2>couple businesses down and I walked into this taco bell

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:44.520
<v Speaker 2>ordered a couple soft tacos. And it turns out that

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.600
<v Speaker 2>the cashier was the manager. And this manager basically just

0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 2>took the bill, held it up, looked for a strip

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:54.040
<v Speaker 2>in a watermark, and she put it in the register

0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 2>and gave me my change. I walked a couple blocks

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 2>back to my car, and I just threw the tacos

0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 2>the bushes. I kind of thought, this is going to

0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:07.160
<v Speaker 2>be easier than I thought. I knew that I was

0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:12.080
<v Speaker 2>onto something. I was living at a hotels, so we

0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:15.240
<v Speaker 2>needed visa cards to pay for the hotel rooms. So

0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.520
<v Speaker 2>I started buying prepaid visa cards, and I realized that

0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 2>there's like a three dollar fee attached to a prepaid

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.120
<v Speaker 2>visa card, So to get one hundred dollars prepaid visa card,

0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.280
<v Speaker 2>it would be one hundred and three dollars. So I

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.760
<v Speaker 2>would give them two kind of fie hundred dollar bills

0:15:29.800 --> 0:15:32.040
<v Speaker 2>and I not get the one hundred dollars prepaid visa

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 2>card and ninety seven dollars change. So that kind of

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:41.800
<v Speaker 2>doubled my income. And most big chain stores have multiple registers,

0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:44.520
<v Speaker 2>so you know, me and my wife would go into

0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:47.720
<v Speaker 2>one store and buy prepaid visa cards, but we'd go

0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 2>to multiple registers, so we could leave a Walmart with,

0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:56.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, one thousand dollars just by going to different registers.

0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.840
<v Speaker 2>And when your job is breaking one hundred dollar bills,

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Walmarts and stuff like that. Of course, my kids got

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.000
<v Speaker 2>pretty much whatever they wanted. And if they say, oh,

0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.760
<v Speaker 2>can I have this toy, It's like, sure, I'll make

0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 2>fifty bucks off of getting you that toy. I would

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:17.360
<v Speaker 2>go to my children and specifically say what do you want,

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 2>because I need to buy stuff. I mean, yeah, anything

0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.520
<v Speaker 2>they wanted. I was eager to get them because that's

0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:30.120
<v Speaker 2>how I made my money. I remember having Christmas in

0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.160
<v Speaker 2>a hotel room and we had so many toys. It

0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.000
<v Speaker 2>filled up like the whole floor of the hotel room

0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.280
<v Speaker 2>with presents. And you know, we had a Christmas tree

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 2>in the hotel room, so the kids had a great time,

0:16:43.280 --> 0:16:52.600
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean. At this point, I was

0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.600
<v Speaker 2>used to cashiers only marking the bills with the counterfeit

0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.520
<v Speaker 2>detection pen. And like I said, my bills I sprayed

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>with lacquer, so the pens were no problem. But the

0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.760
<v Speaker 2>first time I went to break a bill out of CBS,

0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.200
<v Speaker 2>the cashier pulled out the counterfeit pen marked it. It

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.639
<v Speaker 2>marked properly, but then she turned the pen around and

0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:16.040
<v Speaker 2>shined a black light on my bill and the strip

0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't glow red. So it was a real close call

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.160
<v Speaker 2>for me. I was like I thought, I was begin

0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.199
<v Speaker 2>to get caught. So at that point I knew I

0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:31.119
<v Speaker 2>needed to somehow make the strip glow red. Then I

0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:36.520
<v Speaker 2>found these invisible ink UV pens online. They're basically marketed

0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 2>towards little girl's diaries, so the girl can write in

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 2>her diary with this invisible ink pen, so no one

0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.399
<v Speaker 2>can read her diary. So I googled that I found

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.200
<v Speaker 2>them in red ink. You know, I ordered them, and

0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>after I glued my bills together, I would take a

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.240
<v Speaker 2>ruler and put it over the strip and just draw

0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 2>a line with this invisible ink UV pen so when

0:17:57.600 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>you shine the black light on it, they it appeared

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to glow red, just like a real bill. I'd normally

0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 2>wake up at about nine am and print for about

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.880
<v Speaker 2>three hours, usually make a couple thousand. At least by

0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.320
<v Speaker 2>noon I had a couple thousand dollars in fake hundreds,

0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and then you know, you spend the rest of the

0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.560
<v Speaker 2>day just kind of breaking them, going to different stores.

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.520
<v Speaker 2>Some days, some heroin dealers I knew would put in

0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 2>an order for like ten thousand dollars, So some days

0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I'd just print all day to give them ten thousand.

0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.919
<v Speaker 2>They'd give me like twenty five hundred for the ten thousand,

0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and I'd probably print a couple thousand for myself to

0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:44.479
<v Speaker 2>break as well. A big part of it was buying

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 2>heroin from dealers with counterfeit money. This one dealer I

0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 2>was buying like an eight ball of heroin off of

0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 2>him every day for like a month straight. We'd go

0:18:54.600 --> 0:18:58.000
<v Speaker 2>up to Cleveland together. He'd re up and I'd drive

0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.520
<v Speaker 2>around Cleveland, breaking bills and getting Bible paper and doing

0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:05.359
<v Speaker 2>the whole routine. He went up to Cleveland without me,

0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 2>and he got arrested while he was up there. A

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.879
<v Speaker 2>day or two goes by and he calls me. I

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.159
<v Speaker 2>figured the FEDS were listening to that conversation, but I

0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 2>also said I wasn't a drug dealer, but I didn't

0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:27.960
<v Speaker 2>expect anything to come of it. I was in a

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.639
<v Speaker 2>hotel room at the time of that phone call, and

0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.000
<v Speaker 2>about thirty minutes later, I hear a knock on the

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 2>door of the hotel room, and I kind of peek

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.480
<v Speaker 2>out the window of the hotel and I see the

0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.920
<v Speaker 2>corner of a Knox County sheriff. So at that point,

0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>fucked fucked. I threw about ten thousand roughly into the

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.439
<v Speaker 2>toilet and flushed it. Took another probably five ten thousand

0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.639
<v Speaker 2>threw it in the toilet, but when I went to

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.439
<v Speaker 2>flush it the second time, just kind of bl bl

0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 2>blah blooh. If water was shut off at this point,

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.040
<v Speaker 2>there's a bunch of counterfeit money just floating in it

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:10.719
<v Speaker 2>or like stuck to the rim of this toilet. I

0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.560
<v Speaker 2>heard people yell, multiple people yelling through the door knocks,

0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:17.480
<v Speaker 2>kind a sheriff Us Secret Service, and then they just

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.359
<v Speaker 2>started kicking it in. But the hotel room door was

0:20:20.440 --> 0:20:24.120
<v Speaker 2>like reinforced with steel. It was like a thick metal door.

0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:29.200
<v Speaker 2>They just you know, boom boom boom, over and over again.

0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:31.520
<v Speaker 2>There was nothing I could do. There was nowhere I

0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>could go. So I did a line of heroin and

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:38.480
<v Speaker 2>lit a cigarette and just sat on the bed and

0:20:38.800 --> 0:20:47.360
<v Speaker 2>smoked a cigarette while they were kicking the door. When

0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.120
<v Speaker 2>they offered me that deal to not charge my wife,

0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I always planned on taking it, whether the deal was

0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.919
<v Speaker 2>good whoorbad, Like I wouldn't have let my wife go

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.600
<v Speaker 2>to prison. We went to a meeting with my lawyer

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.440
<v Speaker 2>and the Secret Service was really like impressed, and they

0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:08.520
<v Speaker 2>wanted me to explain to them how I did everything,

0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 2>and he's like, we want you to make a training

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 2>video for Secret Service agents as a part of cooperation.

0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:21.760
<v Speaker 2>As soon as I walk into the room, there's like

0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:27.679
<v Speaker 2>lights and tripod with cameramen. There was like a sound

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.280
<v Speaker 2>guy that put mic on me. I was like shocked

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>at first. I'm like, oh shit. They had all the

0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:36.480
<v Speaker 2>evidence that they seized from my hotel room. They had

0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:41.080
<v Speaker 2>my computer and my printers and a suitcase I had

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 2>with all these different pens and sprays, so they had

0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.679
<v Speaker 2>everything I needed to make money. He kind of was

0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.320
<v Speaker 2>just like go and I'm like, what do you mean? Go, Like,

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:54.879
<v Speaker 2>what do you want me to do? And he's like,

0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:59.160
<v Speaker 2>make two counterfeit bills, explain every step of the process.

0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:02.679
<v Speaker 2>They kept saying, who taught you? I mean, I really

0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.040
<v Speaker 2>just caught myself, you know, I mean trial and error.

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:08.880
<v Speaker 2>The Secret Service. They kept saying, this will really help

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.320
<v Speaker 2>train Secret Service agents. You know, I spent a lot

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.800
<v Speaker 2>of time and effort into really perfecting this recipe. And

0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:19.399
<v Speaker 2>the Secret Service what they said like they were super

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.200
<v Speaker 2>excited to meet me. So I guess in a way

0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:24.480
<v Speaker 2>it made me feel.

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Good in return for cooperating with the government and making

0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.959
<v Speaker 1>that impressive instructional video. Jeff served just three years in

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 1>prison and his wife served none. Today he's a changed man.

0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 1>He's been drug free for years and has a steady job.

0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:01.399
<v Speaker 1>He calls himself a professional printer. He and his wife

0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 1>are divorced. The creator and host of Lives of Crime

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:17.880
<v Speaker 1>is Steve Fishman. Executive producers Steve Fishman and Kevin Wardis,

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Senior producer Michael Epstein, producer and engineer Austin Smith, Story

0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>editor Dan Bobkoff. Our sound designer is Bianca Salinas. Assistant

0:23:30.040 --> 0:23:36.840
<v Speaker 1>producer Eric Axelrod. Special thanks to the inimitable Fisher Stevens,

0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:40.640
<v Speaker 1>the Glamorous Ria Julian and our agents at WM e

0:23:40.640 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Evan Crasseik, Marissa Hurwitz, Ben Davis. Lives of Crime is

0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:48.159
<v Speaker 1>a production of Orbit Media in association with Signal Company

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:57.879
<v Speaker 1>Number One. Follow us at orbit Media FM, on Instagram,

0:23:57.920 --> 0:23:59.480
<v Speaker 1>TikTok and YouTube